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Are Heavy Energy Destabilizers and Vampires too powerful?

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Pam wedghjmo	Posted - 2006.01.27 19:01:00 - [1] these things are guns that never miss no matter ship size or speed other then using up a bit of pg they have no down side in short range combat. and anything smaller then a bs has no way to couter them even cap boosters can't make up for the lost energy maybe these things can be made more like turrets with an optimal range, fall off, and trackingspeed
CptEagle	Posted - 2006.01.27 19:04:00 - [2] No. FatBalls > CCP just checked their logs and no lag ever came from EvE
Sharies	Posted - 2006.01.27 19:04:00 - [3] Edited by: Sharies on 27/01/2006 19:04:55 They do no damage and won't destroy your ship so no. Just my personal opinion http://miniprofile.xfire.com/bg/sf/type/2/moonshade.png
Pam wedghjmo	Posted - 2006.01.27 19:10:00 - [4] they do damage your ship by attacking the life blood of it. with out cap you can not shoot tackle or use mwd/ab to get out of tackle range your dead and easy to pick apart
Beringe	Posted - 2006.01.27 19:18:00 - [5] I'd like to see some sort of counter to them, like perhaps make the cap given by cap batteries be immune to drain. But otherwise, I think they are fine. Makes taking on a bigger ship a risky proposition, if you don't outnumber them. ------------------------------------------- My life is the end of being. The temporal, actual end of thought and soul.
Dragul Imorta	Posted - 2006.01.27 19:19:00 - [6] Originally by: Pam wedghjmo they do damage your ship by attacking the life blood of it. with out cap you can not shoot tackle or use mwd/ab to get out of tackle range your dead and easy to pick apart Projectile turrents (autoguns/artillery) don't use cap and if I am not mistaken, so do missle launchers. But I guess it would be a bother if you fly amarr, Gallante or Caldari ships. I might not be able to repair my armor or regen my shield (as much as I like) but I usually don't need a mwd/afterburner to out speed the tracking of the turrents from the ship that was able to drain my cap dry (another plus for minmatar).
Sharies	Posted - 2006.01.27 19:20:00 - [7] Originally by: Pam wedghjmo they do damage your ship by attacking the life blood of it. with out cap you can not shoot tackle or use mwd/ab to get out of tackle range your dead and easy to pick apart Then Bring a bigger stick. http://miniprofile.xfire.com/bg/sf/type/2/moonshade.png
Naughty Boy	Posted - 2006.01.27 19:24:00 - [8] * Capital Nosferatu * Anti-nosferatu defense * we need anti-nos mod * Nos Penalty in Developmnent * Nosferatu and PVP * Nos/Neuts * Nos? * Nos stacking penalty? Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy. ---
Tachy	Posted - 2006.01.27 19:25:00 - [9] All weapons but >small< projectiles and missile launchers use cap. With the 'improved' stacking, NOS and neutralizers are a bit hard to counter. And you're nearly forced to equip them too to break tanks of certain opponents. --==*-- Megadon CCP wanted a well known artist and celebrity to test the new font so it's approval would be well known. They got Ray
Necrologic	Posted - 2006.01.27 19:28:00 - [10] Originally by: Naughty Boy * Capital Nosferatu * Anti-nosferatu defense * we need anti-nos mod * Nos Penalty in Developmnent * Nosferatu and PVP * Nos/Neuts * Nos? * Nos stacking penalty? Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy. My thoughts exactly. Official Nos Troll
Malthros Zenobia	Posted - 2006.01.27 19:36:00 - [11] Originally by: Pam wedghjmo maybe these things can be made more like turrets with an optimal range, fall off, and trackingspeed No. As much as I'd love to be able to orbit a BS at close range and avoid the NOS, no. Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu I'm probably one of the biggest Bush fanboys in Eve... This is like, Darth Vader, can't-reach-climax-without-killing-a-puppy evil.
Iagen	Posted - 2006.01.27 19:50:00 - [12] nos = lose high slot(s) = fewer guns. There's your balance trade off. Slower damage for mroe control of your foe.
BigJim Beef	Posted - 2006.01.27 19:53:00 - [13] Originally by: Tachy All weapons but >small< projectiles and missile launchers use cap. Qft. People don't realise that med projectiles take 1 cap per shot, which on autocannons is actually quite a lot, especially if you've just had all your cap sucked out.
Necrologic	Posted - 2006.01.27 20:00:00 - [14] Originally by: Iagen nos = lose high slot(s) = fewer guns. There's your balance trade off. Slower damage for mroe control of your foe. Wrong. Most ships have more highslots than they have primary weapon slots. If you have no bonuses to a seconday weapon, a nosferatu is far more powerful, so you lose no damage. You actually gain some effective damage alot of the time. For example, if you are flying a tempest. 6x autos and 2x heavy nos break tanks just as well if not better than 6x autos and 2x torps, and the nos protect agaisnt small targets and boosts your cap as well. Even though they do not actually do damage, they shut off tanks and so do effective damage. They also shut off offense and boost your cap and so defense, so they effectivly do alot more than damage. Official Nos Troll
Har Ganeth	Posted - 2006.01.27 20:02:00 - [15] There's nothing stopping the smaller ship from using EW - sensor damps to reduce the max range of the bigger ship would probably be more effective than hoping to get lucky with jammers unless you're in a crow.
Sharies	Posted - 2006.01.27 20:03:00 - [16] Originally by: BigJim Beef Originally by: Tachy All weapons but >small< projectiles and missile launchers use cap. Qft. People don't realise that med projectiles take 1 cap per shot, which on autocannons is actually quite a lot, especially if you've just had all your cap sucked out. Maybe you shoulda brought more people. It's not like he can nos everyone. Also energy destabilizers drain his energy too. making it so they cant tank as well. http://miniprofile.xfire.com/bg/sf/type/2/moonshade.png
Necrologic	Posted - 2006.01.27 20:05:00 - [17] Originally by: Har Ganeth There's nothing stopping the smaller ship from using EW - sensor damps to reduce the max range of the bigger ship would probably be more effective than hoping to get lucky with jammers unless you're in a crow. With what, your 1 free medslot? A few damps are not going to bring his lock range down enough, especially not with them being broken. To jam him you'd need a frig fleet, and those arn't going to have trouble with 1 bs anyway. Official Nos Troll
Sharies	Posted - 2006.01.27 20:17:00 - [18] Originally by: Necrologic Originally by: Har Ganeth There's nothing stopping the smaller ship from using EW - sensor damps to reduce the max range of the bigger ship would probably be more effective than hoping to get lucky with jammers unless you're in a crow. With what, your 1 free medslot? A few damps are not going to bring his lock range down enough, especially not with them being broken. To jam him you'd need a frig fleet, and those arn't going to have trouble with 1 bs anyway. So in your mind a couple frigs should be able to easily beat a battleship. I'll have some of whatever your smoking. http://miniprofile.xfire.com/bg/sf/type/2/moonshade.png
Imorta Dragul	Posted - 2006.01.27 20:19:00 - [19] Edited by: Imorta Dragul on 27/01/2006 20:22:26 Edited by: Imorta Dragul on 27/01/2006 20:21:57 Originally by: BigJim Beef Originally by: Tachy All weapons but >small< projectiles and missile launchers use cap. Qft. People don't realise that med projectiles take 1 cap per shot, which on autocannons is actually quite a lot, especially if you've just had all your cap sucked out. 220mm Medium 'Scout' Autocannon I 220mm Medium Gallium I Machine Gun ect ect ect the standart t1 and t2's cost cap, not the named. so small and medium can be without cap cost
Elaina Cosengo	Posted - 2006.01.27 20:34:00 - [20] Neuts stink anyone who uses them are morons (ends rant)
Necrologic	Posted - 2006.01.27 20:36:00 - [21] Originally by: Sharies Originally by: Necrologic Originally by: Har Ganeth There's nothing stopping the smaller ship from using EW - sensor damps to reduce the max range of the bigger ship would probably be more effective than hoping to get lucky with jammers unless you're in a crow. With what, your 1 free medslot? A few damps are not going to bring his lock range down enough, especially not with them being broken. To jam him you'd need a frig fleet, and those arn't going to have trouble with 1 bs anyway. So in your mind a couple frigs should be able to easily beat a battleship. I'll have some of whatever your smoking. I never said that, so don't put words into my mouth please. Battleships should be able to easily tank a couple frigs, or if they are using a fleet setup should't be alone and so it isn't a problem. A frig should not kill a battleship, but a battleship that is not setup as anti frig should not kill a frig either. Nos is an overpowered module because you can fit a setup that works perfectly against other battleships and will also own frigs thanks to the nos. Any other size of ship or class of module is only effective against 1 or 2 ship sizes. For example, if a frigate wants to fight another frigate you probably want a web, probably short range weapons, etc. But if the frigate wants to fight a battleship, it must fit a disrupter, and the mods to sustain it and probably a mwd too, and bring friends. But a battleship can have a compleatly anti bs setup and still own frigs. Official Nos Troll
Countess Kaladan	Posted - 2006.01.27 20:41:00 - [22] This is ridiculous, so what if NOS are too powerful, so are a lot of other weapons. I don't complain about cruise missiles every time I get ganked from one, or about heavy guns. There are ways to counter NOS, and there are ways to defend yourself against other weapons. Quit complaining about weapons set ups, and if you are upset about it, you should stop tackling battleships with smaller ships.
Necrologic	Posted - 2006.01.27 20:42:00 - [23] Originally by: Countess Kaladan This is ridiculous, so what if NOS are too powerful, so are a lot of other weapons. I don't complain about cruise missiles every time I get ganked from one, or about heavy guns. There are ways to counter NOS, and there are ways to defend yourself against other weapons. Quit complaining about weapons set ups, and if you are upset about it, you should stop tackling battleships with smaller ships. Please enlighten me on how i can counter nos? And don't bother saying cap boosters. There is also more to combat than tackling. Official Nos Troll
Sharies	Posted - 2006.01.27 20:42:00 - [24] Originally by: Necrologic Originally by: Sharies Originally by: Necrologic Originally by: Har Ganeth There's nothing stopping the smaller ship from using EW - sensor damps to reduce the max range of the bigger ship would probably be more effective than hoping to get lucky with jammers unless you're in a crow. With what, your 1 free medslot? A few damps are not going to bring his lock range down enough, especially not with them being broken. To jam him you'd need a frig fleet, and those arn't going to have trouble with 1 bs anyway. So in your mind a couple frigs should be able to easily beat a battleship. I'll have some of whatever your smoking. I never said that, so don't put words into my mouth please. Battleships should be able to easily tank a couple frigs, or if they are using a fleet setup should't be alone and so it isn't a problem. A frig should not kill a battleship, but a battleship that is not setup as anti frig should not kill a frig either. Nos is an overpowered module because you can fit a setup that works perfectly against other battleships and will also own frigs thanks to the nos. Any other size of ship or class of module is only effective against 1 or 2 ship sizes. For example, if a frigate wants to fight another frigate you probably want a web, probably short range weapons, etc. But if the frigate wants to fight a battleship, it must fit a disrupter, and the mods to sustain it and probably a mwd too, and bring friends. But a battleship can have a compleatly anti bs setup and still own frigs. Ok so in your mind a ship should only be setup to have one specific purpose even if it is a much larger ship and shouldn't be able to be setup to handle a wide range of situations. Listen if you want to go play paper rock scissors thatÆs fine this game is a little more complex then that. Of course I can see the forum boards for that game "paper doesn't beat rock, rock smashes through it nerf the paper. http://miniprofile.xfire.com/bg/sf/type/2/moonshade.png
Naughty Boy	Posted - 2006.01.27 20:43:00 - [25] Originally by: Countess Kaladan you should stop tackling battleships with smaller ships. That's going to be simple then... ...what's the role of small ships again? I mean, something that isn't done better by anything bigger? Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy. ---
Necrologic	Posted - 2006.01.27 20:45:00 - [26] Edited by: Necrologic on 27/01/2006 20:45:37 Originally by: Sharies Originally by: Necrologic Originally by: Sharies Originally by: Necrologic Originally by: Har Ganeth There's nothing stopping the smaller ship from using EW - sensor damps to reduce the max range of the bigger ship would probably be more effective than hoping to get lucky with jammers unless you're in a crow. With what, your 1 free medslot? A few damps are not going to bring his lock range down enough, especially not with them being broken. To jam him you'd need a frig fleet, and those arn't going to have trouble with 1 bs anyway. So in your mind a couple frigs should be able to easily beat a battleship. I'll have some of whatever your smoking. I never said that, so don't put words into my mouth please. Battleships should be able to easily tank a couple frigs, or if they are using a fleet setup should't be alone and so it isn't a problem. A frig should not kill a battleship, but a battleship that is not setup as anti frig should not kill a frig either. Nos is an overpowered module because you can fit a setup that works perfectly against other battleships and will also own frigs thanks to the nos. Any other size of ship or class of module is only effective against 1 or 2 ship sizes. For example, if a frigate wants to fight another frigate you probably want a web, probably short range weapons, etc. But if the frigate wants to fight a battleship, it must fit a disrupter, and the mods to sustain it and probably a mwd too, and bring friends. But a battleship can have a compleatly anti bs setup and still own frigs. Ok so in your mind a ship should only be setup to have one specific purpose even if it is a much larger ship and shouldn't be able to be setup to handle a wide range of situations. Listen if you want to go play paper rock scissors that?s fine this game is a little more complex then that. Of course I can see the forum boards for that game "paper doesn't beat rock, rock smashes through it nerf the paper. My mind? Sorry but no. CCP gave turrets tracking. CCP made missiles damage depend on sig rad and speed. CCP made the game. This is their logic, not mine. There has yet to be an official word from them regarding nos, and until there is i will continue to assume that they want to be consistant with their logic, and will continue to point out how nos does not meet that consistancy, and how it breaks currently established balance paradigms. Official Nos Troll
Necrologic	Posted - 2006.01.27 20:47:00 - [27] Originally by: Naughty Boy Originally by: Countess Kaladan you should stop tackling battleships with smaller ships. That's going to be simple then... ...what's the role of small ships again? I mean, something that isn't done better by anything bigger? Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy. "Look Naughty Boy! The NOS sign! To the nerf mobile!" Official Nos Troll
LUKEC	Posted - 2006.01.27 20:52:00 - [28] no... I just tried today: t2 light drone from gallente dread... could not do **** vs taranis, even if i stayed still or moved around. It missed like 75%. When they fix drones to keep range, not orbit, then maybe they will be overpowered. Atm we need antifrig fleet defence. If you think that vampadomi can kill 3 hacs... meh, it cant. I use no guns... i smack to death.
Sharies	Posted - 2006.01.27 20:58:00 - [29] Edited by: Sharies on 27/01/2006 21:04:57 Edited by: Sharies on 27/01/2006 21:02:09 All of those things are different maybe CCP feels NOS are perfect and need no changes and since that is the way nos works it must be CCP's will. Who are you to set what is the paradigm? There are plenty of other ways to beat a nos: bring more ships, fight long range, jam them... I quess what I'm trying to say is dont bring a knife to a gun fight. Your tactics failed change your tactics. http://miniprofile.xfire.com/bg/sf/type/2/moonshade.png
Naughty Boy	Posted - 2006.01.27 21:04:00 - [30] Edited by: Naughty Boy on 27/01/2006 21:06:30 Originally by: Sharies All of those things are different maybe CCP feels NOS are perfect and need no changes and since that is the way nos works it must be CCP's will. Who are you to set what is the current paradigm? In general, that's very short, because CCP changed their game many times, and might still be willing to change it... after all. @Lukec. I think there's a difference between tweaking a mod/introducing different version with different specialized roles and nerfing it to "uselessness". I don't see anything wrong in discussing how it could be tweaked. Anyway... fades away Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy. ---
Tobiaz	Posted - 2006.01.27 21:06:00 - [31] A single small cap injector will allow you to continue to scramble big ships nossing you. It's not a perfect solution, but works well enough. RMR hiatus
Sharies	Posted - 2006.01.27 21:06:00 - [32] sorry problems editing http://miniprofile.xfire.com/bg/sf/type/2/moonshade.png
Nova Strikes	Posted - 2006.01.27 21:11:00 - [33] Sharies no offence but its quite clear what ships you must fly most of your time, despite that, and me being primarily a friggy flying dude, i dont feel NOS are overpowered and the be all end all here. More often than not 1 NOS aint gonna stop me from tackling you long enough for the reinforcments to arrive so whats the problem? you talking about HAC's Nerco?
Sharies	Posted - 2006.01.27 21:15:00 - [34] Edited by: Sharies on 27/01/2006 21:16:13 I don't fly nos BS's in PVP. I'm looking at it from this point of view I'm at work and can keep this snigg in the forums there by saving people from being pirated by him. Also I perfer using unorthodox methods of defeating my enemies. This could be considered one of them I suppose. http://miniprofile.xfire.com/bg/sf/type/2/moonshade.png
Elaina Cosengo	Posted - 2006.01.27 21:21:00 - [35] lol then you in the rocks category, ahh **** now i dun gone off subject.
Necrologic	Posted - 2006.01.27 21:31:00 - [36] Edited by: Necrologic on 27/01/2006 21:31:51 Originally by: Nova Strikes Sharies no offence but its quite clear what ships you must fly most of your time, despite that, and me being primarily a friggy flying dude, i dont feel NOS are overpowered and the be all end all here. More often than not 1 NOS aint gonna stop me from tackling you long enough for the reinforcments to arrive so whats the problem? you talking about HAC's Nerco? I'm talking about all small ships, not a specific one. Nos are not an automatic win button, but that doesn't mean they arn't over powered and too versatile. Quote: All of those things are different maybe CCP feels NOS are perfect and need no changes and since that is the way nos works it must be CCP's will. Who are you to set what is the paradigm? There are plenty of other ways to beat a nos: bring more ships, fight long range, jam them... I quess what I'm trying to say is dont bring a knife to a gun fight. Your tactics failed change your tactics. I don't set the paradigm. I observe what it is and base my conclusions off of that, that is all. I know how to fight nos. This does not stem from me getting beaten consantly by it or anything. This comes simply from my belief that it is overpowered, and as a good citizen of eve i want overpowered mods fixed, but not nerfed into oblivion. Quote: I don't fly nos BS's in PVP. I'm looking at it from this point of view I'm at work and can keep this snigg in the forums there by saving people from being pirated by him. Also I perfer using unorthodox methods of defeating my enemies. This could be considered one of them I suppose. I'm in school, couldn't be pirating now anyway Official Nos Troll
Shamis Orzoz	Posted - 2006.01.28 01:12:00 - [37] Edited by: Shamis Orzoz on 28/01/2006 01:12:10 Nos could use a very slight adjustment in effectiveness against targets with small sig radius's. Might as well use the same lame solution they used for missles. Although what they did with missles doesn't make much sense, I think gameplay is a lot more balansed because of it (except for T2 cruiser..lol), but they need to do something similar with nos. Shamis
Bren Kasir	Posted - 2006.01.28 01:15:00 - [38] If you're in a frig fleet and you want to mess up a BS, take a griffin or two along... Bren Kasir --- You want fries with that?
Valea Silpha	Posted - 2006.01.28 01:28:00 - [39] The problem with nos isn't that its 'overpowered' as such, the problem is that it has an equal effect on everything, but since frigates have rather smaller capacitors there effect is amplified. I don't think nos has massively effected my PvP life, but i still feel that they need a tone down, especially the Vampi-domi style set-ups, which are beyond brutal. It have its mainarmament (drones) doing VAST amounts of damage, combined with your sudden inability to even run your hardeners. Nossing ships smaller than yourself should have SOME penalty, since no matter what anyone says they are quite blatantly an offencive module, and as such require some way to counter without ultra-gimping your set-up. An MWD and a scram and a cap injector on an inty ? Assuming i even have three meds, what the hell else can i mount ? Although Ewar of all sorts is a kinda fix, its not quite good enough , since they are either luck based or a single module will not have enough effect to really save you. Perhaps a 'Nos Overload' type module so that you can startrek style invert the polarity or whatever, and shut down a nos for a cycle or something...
Zed Nash	Posted - 2006.01.28 01:49:00 - [40] Proposed Nos solution: Have sig radius effect Nos effectiveness, making them less effective against smaller ships. I'm down, if you concede the following: 1) Make scramblers used by frigs or cruisers less effective at holding larger, BS-sized targets. 2) Give us a set of skills to reduce fitting requirements, and increase range for Nos modules, since there is none now. If you want to treat them like a weapon, let us improve them like weapons. There are no problems with destabilizers, since they require cap to destroy cap, they are absolutely balanced.
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2006.01.28 01:52:00 - [41] Once more: Yes, they are. Nos should have a REDUCED effect on smaller targets (100 energy BS one should do 100 to BS, 75 to cruisers, 50 to frigates and 30-35 on interceptors). Neuts are fine. --------------------------------------------------------------- Warning: above post may contain traces of sarcasm.

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