a second thing, we don't know how many of those high level executives are working with State intelligence.

For a third thing, it's very likely that any Federation report would emphasize or exaggerate their success. How many is 'several?' 200? 75? 15?

Oh, I'm sorry, have you been absent for the last few months? Because they were doing that from the second the CEP denounced him.

As to all of this, there's just far too many false flag potential scenarios in all of this, and considering how Blaque and the FIO operates, I wouldn't be surprised if any, and all, were true.


GÇóWas this report ever really lost, or was it "released" under a false pretence that it was leaked, with the appropriate dramatic response to make it more realistic?


GÇóAre there really agents or sources of information, at any tier, within the State; or are they hoping to create instability when the knee jerk reaction is to have a witch hunt come wild goose chase?


GÇóWas this all just a really good excuse to do a full shakedown on the Scope, for other articles they're more interested in?


Again, this is Blaque, play all the angles, because he's probably thought of them all first.

I never had you down as a conspiracy theorist Marellus.

One is too many.

I have said it before and I will say it again, as often as it needs to be repeated. ANY discussion of who was in the right and who was in the wrong regarding our return to Caldari Prime that does NOT start with your Federation's decision that it can abandon any of it's high and mighty founding principles whenever expedient, practice collective punishment, attempt genocide and then drive a planetary population into a reckless diaspora halfway across the Cluster is a nonsense. You do NOT get to say that our REASONS don't matter - they mattered very much to us and if our return should have taught you ANYTHING it is that what matters to one side can be made to matter to the other too.

Nobody has criticised the Federation for practising espionage. I know you'd love us to do so, because it would mean you could lambast us as the worst kind of hypocrites. The only venom in this thread has been directed at those citizens of the STATE who took your filthy traitor's money.

Pots and kettles. The State did exactly the same thing when it decided to break all its treaties a few years back.

But like the Federation, was it really abandonning their mighty founding principles, in both cases ?

Some contents of the leaked Highlander document have been released.

Interesting. It's a mild word, for a mild thing: of course the Federation has intelligence assets in the State. Similarly, of course the State has intelligence assets in the Federation. This isn't news.

What is news is that infiltration to higher levels of the State's management occurred. That represents a clear counterintelligence failure, which should result in investigation and an improvement of security procedures. Anyone who knowingly or maliciously contributed to this infiltration should be charged-- with espionage at the least, and treason at the worst.

That said, I very much doubt that the Federation Senate can rightfully lay claim to Heth's downfall. It-- it sounds like so much grandstanding by self-important politicians, who want dearly to have their name on events, to have credit for something that is not theirs to claim.

In any case, interesting.

You do NOT get to say that our REASONS don't matter - they mattered very much to us and if our return should have taught you ANYTHING it is that what matters to one side can be made to matter to the other too.

I'll assume that you missed the part where the State's motto for two centuries was 'Hakkinen K'len' or 'We will return'.

If you were actually surprised that we repudiated it at the first opportunity then you deserved everything you got.

What was disappointing was that armed struggle was the only way to make the Federation listen to us. Now they've seen that we can both negotiate and fight, hopefully we can stick with negotiating.

Did you expect us to send you our fleet comp too? Any other information we could share, just to be friendly.

Be honest. Those five years and that titan were the price of you taking us seriously. Well, we paid it.

What do you mean ?

I mean that the Federation never had any intention of discussing Caldari Prime until we made that discussion necessary. That they assumed our attachment to our Home was some sort of 'cute' cultural eccentricity that they could afford to ignore.

This warm feeling lasted roughly as long as it took us to blast our way to the Luminaire system and park two and a half billion kilos of war machine in orbit around Home. Say what you like about that decision - it was illegal, it did breach an extant treaty - if there was an alternative strategy that could have resulted in the treaty that is now a reality, I'd like to hear it.

Not only did the Federation invite the invasion of the Luminaire system, by their inaction they demanded it.

Unfortunately, whilst Heth was the right leader to make that initial move he proved to be the wrong leader to come to terms with the Federation afterwards - so we wound up with five years of blockade and a battle that could not be won by either side, only lost by both.

It was your invasion of Luminaire that forced the negotiations, but do you believe your nation or at the very least, Heth, truly exhausted every possible option available? I feel that as the Federation became less militant and more peaceful following the Gallente-Caldari war, the State became more aggressive and war hungry.

Perhaps we simply became less patient, Fred.

In any case, Luminaire is now secure, Caldari Prime is partitioned in a way that at least promises to try to be equitable and Heth has shuffled off the political stage.

Your own compatriats can list plenty of reasons why the option of negotiating Caldari Prime's sovereignity was never an option for the Federation. Generations of Federal citizens living there, its location in a Federation core system, the fact that Cal-Gal relations even in those days were chilled, and that negotiating what we wanted was political suicide for Federal elected representatives of the people. Knowing the democratic process, the voting citizens needed good reason to accept the loss of their homes to the Caldari under a transfer agreement.

Multiple diplomatic attempts were made by various means and megacorporations over the years, but none of them could come even remotely close to negotiating the sovereignty of Caldari Prime. Those options were simply never offered or on the table from the Federation's viewpoint. Under no circumstances was the Federation willing to consider anything other Federation sovereignty and administration of Caldari Prime. Expecting the Federation to hand over Caldari Prime is, in their eyes, the same as asking for a system in Villore, or Dodixie, or Bourynes, or any other major system. The Federation did not care that it is our homeworld. There was no reasonable difference to them. So each time the topic came up, it would be turned down flatly at best, or cause for an immediate end of diplomatic credibility at worst.

We of course did not exhaust literally every option available, but neither did the Federation ever seriously considering giving Home back to us. Even those few who did were simply outvoted through the democratic process. The Federation saw Caldari Prime as their territory, with very very few exceptions. What we wanted was not acceptable.

I dare say the current compromised situation wouldn't be acceptable in a time of peace either. The only reason the Federation accepted the current outcome is because of the proven threat of yet more violence. Without such bloodshed in recent memory, how many Senators would vote to hand over even part of one of their central worlds to their old enemy? How many did, in the years preceding 110? Few, I imagine. I believe they only did so now because the citizens of your nation demanded an end to hostilities at their doorsteps.

I don't mean to grandstand or make wild threats. No threats at all here. I'm simply stating that it was a non-reality to expect what we have now through diplomacy. It was a pipe-dream at best.

The problem with the "negotiations" is that neither of us were willing to compromise. The suggestion to share the planet didn't come about until after the battle. Did you really expect us to give you the entire planet? A planet that we've invested so much labor and capital into after the first war?

Our demands were unreasonable, and so were yours. Just keep in mind that the State was trying to obtain (regain) the planet from the Federation, not the otherway around. You were coming to us with the offers, if your offer is unreasonable, then it's rejected on the spot.

Perhaps we simply became less patient, Fred.

In any case, Luminaire is now secure, Caldari Prime is partitioned in a way that at least promises to try to be equitable and Heth has shuffled off the political stage.

I don't mean to grandstand or make wild threats. No threats at all here. I'm simply stating that it was a non-reality to expect what we have now through diplomacy. It was a pipe-dream at best.

I am pleased to see you come closer to reality with your statements. You admit that both sides were demanding unreasonable things, and neither side was willing to compromise. Perhaps now you can step away from the ignorant accusation that all options had not been exhausted.

Compromise was not an option.

It is only an option now for the Federation due to the threat of more bloodshed.
It is only an option now for the State due to the threat of losing Home a second time.

Nothing to see here. I'm hardly surprised to see one of the limitless federal attempts of influencing other sovereign nations unveiled. After all, isn't this what they've been accused of since the very beginning of this little conflict?

As one who graduated during his tenure, would you mind elaborating on just what you're implying about me?