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Capital ships and their tanks - Design issues?

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Twilight Moon	Posted - 2006.02.05 22:32:00 - [61] Originally by: Gronsak Originally by: Jezala ROFL...and to think I have no qualms about taking a carrier into a fight and allowing it to go into structure. Honestly, if you have 5-10 battleships focus firing on you for 3-4 mins then what the hell is the rest of your fleet doing??? Are they running a stopwatch and measuring how long it takes you to pop? A carrier sitting at safespot is a waste of 10's of thousands of hitpoints that could be absorbed for your fleet and it is also a waste of some capital high-slots that could easily turn the tide in an engagement. assume your useinf non faction. and you get your lowest resistance to 80% dual capital reps with maxed skills. they are hitting you at 80% resistance. you can tank 4300 Raw DPS. 20 BS hitting you with 500 DPS = 10,000 DPS. 5700 leaks through. guess how long its gona take to pop you? less then 60seconds that is with only 20BS shooting you recently i have seen many vids where a whole fleet concentrates fire power onto a single DRED and it dies very very fast. one off the top of my mind, a fleet of what looked like 30BS + support warped into a group [5-6 dreds] and poped one of the dreds so fast. one min of concentrated firepower to kill a ship which outputs 3000 DPS useing drones and costs 1.5bils per loss [including drones] if i where a FC i think i would call it pirmary. Aye, but you arent thinking about the other side of the equation. Wonderful, the 20 enemy BS can pop you in under a minute. But....in that full 60 seconds, how many of those enemy battleships can the carrier and its accompaning fleet kill? Obviously the carrier and its attendant fleet will be focus firing as well, so those 20 BS are going to start dropping relatively fast....and as each and every one slowly, but surely drops the DPS that the carrier is taking will drop, therefore its survival time, will rise, most likely to a point where the carrier can happily tank all the damage the, now decimated, enemy fleet is pumping out, and will quite happily stomp all over the enemy fleet.....along with its inctact support fleet, seeing as the Carrier was the only ship absorbing all the incoming fire.
Meridius	Posted - 2006.02.05 22:33:00 - [62] Originally by: Maya Rkell Originally by: Elve Sorrow Please do explain why the Archon has an armor resistance bonus then. CCP need to be explaining that one. Makes no sense to me. Only one of the carriers looks good to me. 'course, there WILL be counters. Missile ships with prescision amo and Eagles should be able to tear fighters up nicely from range. Yep. You put on one energized adaptive II and you get 20% res to all, which module are amarr/caldari/minmatar suppose to use to even come close to 50% fighter damage? ________________________________________________________
Gronsak	Posted - 2006.02.05 22:38:00 - [63] Originally by: Meridius Originally by: Maya Rkell Originally by: Elve Sorrow Please do explain why the Archon has an armor resistance bonus then. CCP need to be explaining that one. Makes no sense to me. Only one of the carriers looks good to me. 'course, there WILL be counters. Missile ships with prescision amo and Eagles should be able to tear fighters up nicely from range. Yep. You put on one energized adaptive II and you get 20% res to all, which module are amarr/caldari/minmatar suppose to use to even come close to 50% fighter damage? first off its 25%. secondly it stacks. thus the 3rd energized adaptive on a galante dred does a lot lower then 25% [i guestimate a nuber of half that] what mod. erm let me see a DRONE DAMAGE MOD. [yes they are not in yet because they where buged. they will be introduced though]
Nafri	Posted - 2006.02.05 22:42:00 - [64] Originally by: Gronsak Originally by: Meridius Originally by: Maya Rkell Originally by: Elve Sorrow Please do explain why the Archon has an armor resistance bonus then. CCP need to be explaining that one. Makes no sense to me. Only one of the carriers looks good to me. 'course, there WILL be counters. Missile ships with prescision amo and Eagles should be able to tear fighters up nicely from range. Yep. You put on one energized adaptive II and you get 20% res to all, which module are amarr/caldari/minmatar suppose to use to even come close to 50% fighter damage? first off its 25%. secondly it stacks. thus the 3rd energized adaptive on a galante dred does a lot lower then 25% [i guestimate a nuber of half that] what mod. erm let me see a DRONE DAMAGE MOD. [yes they are not in yet because they where buged. they will be introduced though] its still 1 mod vs 2.5 mods you gain
Gronsak	Posted - 2006.02.05 22:47:00 - [65] Originally by: Twilight Moon Originally by: Gronsak Originally by: Jezala ROFL...and to think I have no qualms about taking a carrier into a fight and allowing it to go into structure. Honestly, if you have 5-10 battleships focus firing on you for 3-4 mins then what the hell is the rest of your fleet doing??? Are they running a stopwatch and measuring how long it takes you to pop? A carrier sitting at safespot is a waste of 10's of thousands of hitpoints that could be absorbed for your fleet and it is also a waste of some capital high-slots that could easily turn the tide in an engagement. assume your useinf non faction. and you get your lowest resistance to 80% dual capital reps with maxed skills. they are hitting you at 80% resistance. you can tank 4300 Raw DPS. 20 BS hitting you with 500 DPS = 10,000 DPS. 5700 leaks through. guess how long its gona take to pop you? less then 60seconds that is with only 20BS shooting you recently i have seen many vids where a whole fleet concentrates fire power onto a single DRED and it dies very very fast. one off the top of my mind, a fleet of what looked like 30BS + support warped into a group [5-6 dreds] and poped one of the dreds so fast. one min of concentrated firepower to kill a ship which outputs 3000 DPS useing drones and costs 1.5bils per loss [including drones] if i where a FC i think i would call it pirmary. Aye, but you arent thinking about the other side of the equation. Wonderful, the 20 enemy BS can pop you in under a minute. But....in that full 60 seconds, how many of those enemy battleships can the carrier and its accompaning fleet kill? Obviously the carrier and its attendant fleet will be focus firing as well, so those 20 BS are going to start dropping relatively fast....and as each and every one slowly, but surely drops the DPS that the carrier is taking will drop, therefore its survival time, will rise, most likely to a point where the carrier can happily tank all the damage the, now decimated, enemy fleet is pumping out, and will quite happily stomp all over the enemy fleet.....along with its inctact support fleet, seeing as the Carrier was the only ship absorbing all the incoming fire. your missing one mayjour point. its a lot easier to hold down 1 carrier then it is to hold down 20 BS. fine yes that 60sec buys u enough time to pop say 10 of their BS. well more then half will warp out assuming that they are not half assed and kill your support relatively fast. oh and a fleet of 40 BS. well 30sec. that is definitly worth it lol. consider normally u call a BS pirmary and a BS secondary. normally you get a few shots in and need to lock another ship. ie maybe 30-50% of the time you not shooting someting [btw i always makes sure that im shooting something but generally thats waht ppl do] so shooting a carrier is actually more efficent. also the missile users get a few hits too.
dalman	Posted - 2006.02.05 22:57:00 - [66] In my oppinion it's very simple. 1. None should be flying a captital ships without proper skills, implants and equipment. 2. (As has been stated by the devs too) Dreadnaughts is the capital ship for frontline combat. Other ships (such as carriers) naturally only have defence enough to handle 'un-expected trouble'. 3. A Phoenix Dreadnaught can tank up to approx 65.000 raw damage per second. Drink up, shoot in. Let the beating begin. Distributor of pain. Your loss becomes my gain...
Gronsak	Posted - 2006.02.05 22:59:00 - [67] Originally by: Nafri Originally by: Gronsak Originally by: Meridius Originally by: Maya Rkell Originally by: Elve Sorrow Please do explain why the Archon has an armor resistance bonus then. CCP need to be explaining that one. Makes no sense to me. Only one of the carriers looks good to me. 'course, there WILL be counters. Missile ships with prescision amo and Eagles should be able to tear fighters up nicely from range. Yep. You put on one energized adaptive II and you get 20% res to all, which module are amarr/caldari/minmatar suppose to use to even come close to 50% fighter damage? first off its 25%. secondly it stacks. thus the 3rd energized adaptive on a galante dred does a lot lower then 25% [i guestimate a nuber of half that] what mod. erm let me see a DRONE DAMAGE MOD. [yes they are not in yet because they where buged. they will be introduced though] its still 1 mod vs 2.5 mods you gain how does that work. a galante one can not tank as well as any of the ones with +5% res per lvl. and none of the +5% res per lvl ones can gank as much. assume a galante one puts 4 hardeners on and 1 dmg mod. the others put on 3 hardeners and 2 dmg mods. [the 2nd damage mod adds what half of its max capacity. but the 4th hardeners adds waht? could be half of max or less depending on what hardeners are used. in short. yes the galante one has more damage then the rest. but it cant not tank better then the others no matter what it does.
Nafri	Posted - 2006.02.05 23:21:00 - [68] and there is the question again, for what does a carrier need to tank good? Its not like you need to go to the frontline at all. And what I meant was, the 25% bonus to resistances are a single module boni, where the gallente one gets a double damage bonus... +25% would make it still the most powerfull carrier out there, but not that overpowered compared to the others
Gronsak	Posted - 2006.02.05 23:30:00 - [69] Originally by: Nafri and there is the question again, for what does a carrier need to tank good? Its not like you need to go to the frontline at all. And what I meant was, the 25% bonus to resistances are a single module boni, where the gallente one gets a double damage bonus... +25% would make it still the most powerfull carrier out there, but not that overpowered compared to the others since they cant use jump gates. assume its an offensive, they need to jump into the system. in which time a hostile fleet can warp to him instantly in its weakend state with non full cap. then its faced with having to tank if its a defensive ship [defending from enermy attack]. then i suppose u dont even need 1 armor repper. so a tank is indeed required. you can warp to a cyno and id assume a large enermy fleet would indeed warp to it at their various optimals
Boonaki	Posted - 2006.02.06 00:03:00 - [70] This is a really cool role for a carrier... 3 dreads engaging a POS, 3 carriers at various safespots with their fighters asigned to the dreads. Each carrier has a set of 5-10 safespots and randomly warps to them to prevent being scanned down. It basicly forces you to bring dreads and carriers of your own into the fight. Now if the servers could only support such fights. Fear the Ibis of doom.

Boonaki	Posted - 2006.02.06 00:09:00 - [71] Originally by: Gronsak Originally by: Nafri and there is the question again, for what does a carrier need to tank good? Its not like you need to go to the frontline at all. And what I meant was, the 25% bonus to resistances are a single module boni, where the gallente one gets a double damage bonus... +25% would make it still the most powerfull carrier out there, but not that overpowered compared to the others since they cant use jump gates. assume its an offensive, they need to jump into the system. in which time a hostile fleet can warp to him instantly in its weakend state with non full cap. then its faced with having to tank if its a defensive ship [defending from enermy attack]. then i suppose u dont even need 1 armor repper. Thats why you open up the cyno field at a friendly POS you setup before they knew anything about the invasion plans. Throw a mothership into the fray and you can have pilots clone jumping in and jumping into small support craft The future of fleet combat is changing quickly as more and more capital ships come into play. What I'd like to see is more equipmentfor capital ships, and the implementation of CCP's plans for player built stargates at POS's. Include a clone facility at a POS and you have a serious threat from POS's that can not be ignored in home systems. so a tank is indeed required. you can warp to a cyno and id assume a large enermy fleet would indeed warp to it at their various optimals Fear the Ibis of doom.
Meridius	Posted - 2006.02.06 00:23:00 - [72] Originally by: Gronsak Originally by: Nafri and there is the question again, for what does a carrier need to tank good? Its not like you need to go to the frontline at all. And what I meant was, the 25% bonus to resistances are a single module boni, where the gallente one gets a double damage bonus... +25% would make it still the most powerfull carrier out there, but not that overpowered compared to the others since they cant use jump gates. assume its an offensive, they need to jump into the system. in which time a hostile fleet can warp to him instantly in its weakend state with non full cap. then its faced with having to tank if its a defensive ship [defending from enermy attack]. then i suppose u dont even need 1 armor repper. so a tank is indeed required. you can warp to a cyno and id assume a large enermy fleet would indeed warp to it at their various optimals What will a typical carrier be doing the most, tanking or using fighters? Using fighters. If the Gallente one got a 25% damage bonus it would still have a large advantage over the other carriers but thats not the case, it gets a double damage bonus If a fleet does warp in on a cap weakened carrier, it's dead. 20-30bs would make mincemeat out of a carrier, 25% res bonus or not. Maybe the 25% res bonus should go up to 50%? Heh. ________________________________________________________
Berrik Radhok	Posted - 2006.02.06 07:20:00 - [73] Originally by: Admiral IceBlock Originally by: Berrik Radhok You people are missing the point and purpose of carriers BIG TIME. Do real life aircraft carriers sit there and slug it out at point blank with battleships? No. They sit hundreds of miles away and unleash death from over the horizon. Anyone who actually brings a carrier into the middle of a fight is a grade-A moron; the entire point of the ship is to sit at a safespot, delegate the fighters to a buddy, and have him and them go to town on the enemy. They don't tank great because that's not what they're supposed to do. Motherships should be used the same way. what makes you think you know the purpose of carriers? The fact that they're set up to do the same thing in EVE they do in real life? If anyone takes a carrier into a fleet battle, it will be called primary and die, losing the pilot a 1.5 billion isk ship and some extra in fighters. Whereas, if you let it sit at a safespot, you can just designate the fighters to a friend in an intie. Re the wierd bonuses, I'd say that's more reflective of an Amarr racial thing than it is anything else.
Admiral IceBlock	Posted - 2006.02.06 09:32:00 - [74] Originally by: Berrik Radhok Originally by: Admiral IceBlock Originally by: Berrik Radhok You people are missing the point and purpose of carriers BIG TIME. Do real life aircraft carriers sit there and slug it out at point blank with battleships? No. They sit hundreds of miles away and unleash death from over the horizon. Anyone who actually brings a carrier into the middle of a fight is a grade-A moron; the entire point of the ship is to sit at a safespot, delegate the fighters to a buddy, and have him and them go to town on the enemy. They don't tank great because that's not what they're supposed to do. Motherships should be used the same way. what makes you think you know the purpose of carriers? The fact that they're set up to do the same thing in EVE they do in real life? If anyone takes a carrier into a fleet battle, it will be called primary and die, losing the pilot a 1.5 billion isk ship and some extra in fighters. Whereas, if you let it sit at a safespot, you can just designate the fighters to a friend in an intie. Re the wierd bonuses, I'd say that's more reflective of an Amarr racial thing than it is anything else. using your logic a battleship and a dreadnought should sitt at safespot, becouse if they are taken into a fleet they are going to die. they should sitt at safespot and provide moral boost in local. "We brake for nobody"
MOS DEF	Posted - 2006.02.06 09:45:00 - [75] So much assumptions in here. At first the DPS amounts are not correct since fleet battles usually take place at quite some range and those DPS used here all assume one would use highest dmg ammo up close. Second: Warping a carrier into 40 BS assuming not to die is probably the most stupid thing one could do. Third: Carrier is not designed to fight up close and usually WILL assign fighters from a SS. forth:: Armor resist bonus has it`s use since you allways could get into a situation where enemies warp to your cyno field. Fighters on non gallente carriers are still very scary too. fifth: A Carrier plus fighters is maybe around 1 bill. If that could tank 20 BS easily ALONE the game would be BROKEN. IMO carriers tank fine but are no solo fleet pwnmobile wich they shouldn`t be.
Gabriel Karade	Posted - 2006.02.06 10:35:00 - [76] Originally by: Gronsak assume your useinf non faction. and you get your lowest resistance to 80% dual capital reps with maxed skills. they are hitting you at 80% resistance. you can tank 4300 Raw DPS. 20 BS hitting you with 500 DPS = 10,000 DPS. 5700 leaks through. guess how long its gona take to pop you? less then 60seconds that is with only 20BS shooting you 500 DPS is a bit optimistic for a lot of Fleet fights, more than likely you would be doing half that e.g. at a range that requires tungsten instead of antimatter. I suppose the with the Gallente/Minmatar versions you could always keep them on the same grid, but just out of direct fire range. (\_/) (O.o) (> <) "That's no ordinary rabbit!...that's the most foul, cruel and bad-tempered rodent you ever set eyes on"
Sky Hunter	Posted - 2006.02.06 11:26:00 - [77] Originally by: Gronsak Originally by: Sky Hunter 3400 DPS tankin ability + 'resists above 75%' can certainly tank more then 10 BS focus from 80-100km(average fleet battle range). At such ranges BS barely tops 300 dps of 'clean' damage with its heavy hitting insta-dmg setups. Now add 75% resistances across the board. More of that, even if carrier in a need to get right into action, i think it needs to be supported by dreads. If corp or alliance able to field a carrier, they should be able to field dread as well. And like some already said above, it supposed to sit at safespot nearby having its fighters assigned to gnag members, altrough its not clear about killmail, if a carrier pilot gets onto it as well... it is 3400 DPS taking the resistance into account 2x large armor rep = 9600*2 hp rep per cycle = 19,200 rep cycle = 22.5sec hp recover per second = 853.33 hp recover a sec so its 850 DPS recover. assume its being hit at 75% resistance. thats 3400 HP raw tank and that is about 3 highly skilled blasterthrons. or 10 sniperthrons at 100km. IE 20ppl sniping = dead fast Well, but you dont use close-range BS in fleet fight that goes at 80km minimum mostly. Ok so lets say 20 BS focuses fire on a Carrier from lets say 90km(since all BS are on different distance so we take average between 80 and 100). They will be able to outdamage carrier tank. But now, try surviving in your BS under fighter focus. To make it easier, id say from my own opinion that 1 Minmatar fighter does damage compared close to 2 T2 Large autocannons with average skills. Now add to it that they orbit you close and they have lower sig radius so you wont hit em with your long-range setups. So now like BoB member said on 2nd page, its hard to judge on carrier abilities. Lets see what will go after few month -=-
Gronsak	Posted - 2006.02.06 12:39:00 - [78] Originally by: Meridius Originally by: Gronsak Originally by: Nafri and there is the question again, for what does a carrier need to tank good? Its not like you need to go to the frontline at all. And what I meant was, the 25% bonus to resistances are a single module boni, where the gallente one gets a double damage bonus... +25% would make it still the most powerfull carrier out there, but not that overpowered compared to the others since they cant use jump gates. assume its an offensive, they need to jump into the system. in which time a hostile fleet can warp to him instantly in its weakend state with non full cap. then its faced with having to tank if its a defensive ship [defending from enermy attack]. then i suppose u dont even need 1 armor repper. so a tank is indeed required. you can warp to a cyno and id assume a large enermy fleet would indeed warp to it at their various optimals What will a typical carrier be doing the most, tanking or using fighters? Using fighters. If the Gallente one got a 25% damage bonus it would still have a large advantage over the other carriers but thats not the case, it gets a double damage bonus If a fleet does warp in on a cap weakened carrier, it's dead. 20-30bs would make mincemeat out of a carrier, 25% res bonus or not. Maybe the 25% res bonus should go up to 50%? Heh. it gets a +1 fighter per level and a +10% bonous to damage per level. other carrier gets +1 fighters per lvl and +5% dmg per level. maxed skilled galante carrier = 50% more damage then amx skilled other carrier max skilled non galante carrier = 25% less dmg galante carrier =150 damage VS 100 dmg galante carrier takes 100damage from non galante carrier. galante carrier gives 1500.75=112.5dmg to non galante carrier thus max skills the difference of the Damage vs tank is about 12.5%. which isnt overpowered imo considering that galante are the drone race [LOL AT CALDARI NUBBINS AND THEIR MANTICORE WITH 3 LAUNCHERS sorry bout that ] back on track. if at a SS and tanking is of no importance then the galante one does infact do the job 50% better then a non galante carrier [assumeing max skills]. but since these things need to jump in useing cyno and anything in the system can warp to that cyno then i see these things geting scrambled by cepters asap and a fleet soon warp on their asses. But on a carrier vs carrier 1vs1 [which ofcourse is not really the best option to balance these things] then at maxed skills the galante one does 1.5x dmg of another carrier but 25% of that is lost from their tank bonous so it does 0.50.75=1.125x more damage then the non galante one. 12.5% better dmg/tank isnt too abd imo since galante are ment to be the uber drone users [and its not retarded like 50% more burst damage a manticore has over other SB with nothing logical to make up for it]
Tiuwaz	Posted - 2006.03.14 04:56:00 - [79] Originally by: Gronsak it gets a +1 fighter per level and a +10% bonous to damage per level. other carrier gets +1 fighters per lvl and +5% dmg per level. maxed skilled galante carrier = 50% more damage then amx skilled other carrier max skilled non galante carrier = 25% less dmg galante carrier =150 damage VS 100 dmg galante carrier takes 100damage from non galante carrier. galante carrier gives 1500.75=112.5dmg to non galante carrier thus max skills the difference of the Damage vs tank is about 12.5%. which isnt overpowered imo considering that galante are the drone race [LOL AT CALDARI NUBBINS AND THEIR MANTICORE WITH 3 LAUNCHERS sorry bout that ] Dear Mr Gronsak regrettably we have to inform you that NO Carrier besides Gallente get a dmg bonus to fighters. Plz be a nice chap and tell us out of where you have pulled the 5% dmg to fighters for other carriers info. Originally by:* Oveur ****! Lets nerf it! To the nerfmobile!
Baun	Posted - 2006.03.14 05:03:00 - [80] Just want to reiterate that this is a problem for all Capital ships except dreadnoughts. The only difference between the tank of a Titan, Mothership and Carrier is the amount of base HP (which is important but ultimately not all that significant given how fracking easy it is to drop a warp disrupt probe on them before they warp). Its probably OK that carriers tank like this. They can stave off 5-6 BS which makes them viable in-grid ships for small engagements. Motherships and Titans (especially Titans) need a defense upgrade. The Enemy's Gate is Down

Baun	Posted - 2006.03.14 05:09:00 - [81] The real issue is how easy it is to JAM carriers. This makes it impossible for them to reliably remote repair each other, which they should be able to do. The solution (as we discussed in a thread JUST AFTER carriers were released) is to be able to activate modules on gangmates WITHOUT locking them. The Enemy's Gate is Down
jamesw	Posted - 2006.03.14 05:27:00 - [82] Edited by: jamesw on 14/03/2006 05:27:32 So there is a fleet waiting for your carrier at the cyno beacon. They start shooting your carrier when it jumps in. While they destroy 1.7bil worth of carrier, your support fleet (you brought one, right?) destroys half of their BS Fleet. ohnoes! -- Latest Vid: Bobbing for Xelas
Keven	Posted - 2006.03.14 10:00:00 - [83] Edited by: Keven on 14/03/2006 10:06:20 Does the US navy send her carriers into the enemy fleet? No... the navy does not. Thats the whole fracking point of carriers: Annihilate some poor bastards without risking your ship and incredible amounts of money. Same job as a battle ship, but sooo much better and more efficient. We dont need another doomitfix like incarnation, killing enemy cap while pawning everything thats left with fighters. The "pawning with fighters" is devlish enough. Safespot base for the win. + if the enmy fleets is waiting at the cyno field: dun friggn jump to it.
Admiral IceBlock	Posted - 2006.03.14 10:10:00 - [84] a capital designed to sitt on a safespot is totally bull****! if you dont give them better tanking abilities, at least up their hp 20%-25% all over. "We brake for nobody"
Mallik Hendrake	Posted - 2006.03.14 10:23:00 - [85] I think carriers are perfectly and totally suited to their role, and are pretty awesome. One thing we're all forgetting is that it only takes about 4-5 months to skill up for a carrier superbly. Everyone and his mama and brother are gonna be flying them soon. You get 10 carriers in a fight and watch the fireworks. as 4-5 bs at a time instapop. We talk about 50 bs+support vs. 5 carriers+support, but what you'll see is 50 bs+support vs. 5 carriers+45 bs+support, because it only takes one dude to pilot a carrier. Keep taking that further and you'll see why carriers and dreads are going to change the face of the game. A few more capital mods, and t2 capital mods will hit the game. super extra extenders, 48000mm plates, and so on, capital warp core stabilizers (go BE!) and similar. Also, if you don't want your carrier to get jammed have it fit a frigging EW resist item. +60% or some-odd will get you some ridiculous sensor strength (to the point that you should rarely be jammed). I don't think we can realistically whinge about them yet. The capital age is just beginning, and now is not the time to cry. When BoB brings 20 carriers to your system there'll be time enough for cryin'. -------------------------------------------- "A plan is just a list of things that don't happen." -- Parker, _The Way of the Gun_ Mallik Hendrake E X O D U S [I do not speak for E X O or IRON]
Rexthor Hammerfists	Posted - 2006.03.14 11:48:00 - [86] a new type of remote reppers would b nice, maybe type is not the right word, somethin that makes it possible to rempote rep some1 without having to lock. the reason carriers at ss`s repping bses, that had to jumpout of a fleetbattle, doesnt work is because their slow locktime. - Purple Conquered The World, We the Universe.
Ariadne	Posted - 2006.03.14 12:02:00 - [87] Can you see the dmg to your fighters now when they are in distant space? And carriers arent frontline ships. They are support ships. "This means V+R."
migwar	Posted - 2006.03.14 12:17:00 - [88] Originally by: Admiral IceBlock Originally by: Berrik Radhok Originally by: Admiral IceBlock Originally by: Berrik Radhok You people are missing the point and purpose of carriers BIG TIME. Do real life aircraft carriers sit there and slug it out at point blank with battleships? No. They sit hundreds of miles away and unleash death from over the horizon. Anyone who actually brings a carrier into the middle of a fight is a grade-A moron; the entire point of the ship is to sit at a safespot, delegate the fighters to a buddy, and have him and them go to town on the enemy. They don't tank great because that's not what they're supposed to do. Motherships should be used the same way. what makes you think you know the purpose of carriers? The fact that they're set up to do the same thing in EVE they do in real life? If anyone takes a carrier into a fleet battle, it will be called primary and die, losing the pilot a 1.5 billion isk ship and some extra in fighters. Whereas, if you let it sit at a safespot, you can just designate the fighters to a friend in an intie. Re the wierd bonuses, I'd say that's more reflective of an Amarr racial thing than it is anything else. using your logic a battleship and a dreadnought should sitt at safespot, becouse if they are taken into a fleet they are going to die. they should sitt at safespot and provide moral boost in local. yes but dreads and BS cant do full damage while sat in their safespot
Jin Entres	Posted - 2006.03.14 12:25:00 - [89] I, for one, am very excited about training 5-10 months for a ship that costs billions to fly just so I can sit in a safespot.
jamesw	Posted - 2006.03.14 12:27:00 - [90] Originally by: Jin Entres I, for one, am very excited about training 5-10 months for a ship that costs billions to fly just so I can sit in a safespot. No one is making you. -- Latest Vid: Bobbing for Xelas



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