So as part of the nightmare in new eden i brought my archon to triage for some fun. I was getting primed by everyone so I refitted to some bulkheads and a DC. So the incomeing damage got me to 10% armor and then Poof....

I was confused for a few days on how my kill mail Makalu Zarya and Serotta doing more then 100k more damage then the rest of the isthars.


Upon looking at my logs I found this:

http://i.imgur.com/72nEQ3h.png

Note the single sentrys hitting for over 120k each on 60% resists.

Video Proof

Just wanted to make this public. I'm not in anyway saying PL had any high jinx I think something to do with CCP since one of the chimeras we shot was only taking 20 damage from a sentry drone 10km from him.


Just some food for taught

Yes the loss has now been petitioned to see what happened.

You should mail them over Xbox live and pretend to be a GM saying 'that you knw their ussing Hax and there working on making U banned 4 it."

Make sure you use **** uneducated texting grammar when you do it too..because that makes it super legit.

Drone assist tactix are OP, plz tell me more.

Full crit build Isthars to stronk.

So as part of the nightmare in new eden i brought my archon to triage for some fun. I was getting primed by everyone so I refitted to some bulkheads and a DC. So the incomeing damage got me to 10% armor and then Poof....

I was confused for a few days on how my kill mail Makalu Zarya and Serotta doing more then 100k more damage then the rest of the isthars.


Upon looking at my logs I found this:

http://i.imgur.com/72nEQ3h.png

Note the single sentrys hitting for over 120k each on 60% resists.

Video Proof

Just wanted to make this public. I'm not in anyway saying PL had any high jinx I think something to do with CCP since one of the chimeras we shot was only taking 20 damage from a sentry drone 10km from him.


Just some food for taught

Yes the loss has now been petitioned to see what happened.

You're about a year late on the sentry/drone assist thing m8

While it looks glitchy and something awry server side - you were in armor - so only 15% resists from the DC II - not 60%.

Aren't the figures in the log showing dmg after resists have been taken into account?

There's a bit of a difference between "too strong" and "incredibly broken". Looks like Makalu needs to stay out of sentry Ishtars for while to avoid CCP discovering his secret sauce.

I will however be watching them very carefully so if you disagree please take advantage of the power of these ships as much as you can and enjoy the benefits while demonstrating to us why we should change it.

I completely agree that these kinds of changes are very disruptive to existing tactics, but disruptive changes provide content and allow the best minds to rise to the top. Disruptive changes are intrinsically valuable.

Nobody is gonna ban you guys for overusing this if it's too powerful, so go forth and theorycraft and prove your assertions in the wild.

Why is this thread so full of people who can't read?

Why is this thread so full of people who can't read?

(Yes the quotes refer to a different issue. But this is not Fozzie asking people to abuse things on Sisi, he is actually suggesting doing this on the real server as a valid method of providing balance feedback.)

More drone assist fleets please

Please explain for the less literate of us how 5 Sentry drones do 121 K raw alpha, let alone modified alpha.

Clearly, this thread has zero to do with drone assists, but like an desperately lonely , social misfit of a drunk at a party , you have to insert some statement out of left field into the conversation.

If you were not so destructive, I would pity you.

Why not, drone assist fleets usually use a lot of sentry drones, what better way to make use of this high-damage sentry drone damage feature than a doctrine that uses lots of sentry drone damage

idgi

Might not be related but i just had one of my sentry drones hit for 2 damage on a structure i was trying to destroy.

Quick question, were there any heavy or other drones from the offending party out?

Also would depend on the fall off/Optimal yeah? If they were at edge of range, they could very well have done tiny amounts of DPS just because of Fall off.

Quick question, were there any heavy or other drones from the offending party out?

Archon on joke video destroyed at 00:47
Combat logs from some ***** 00:44
Killmail..... Raptor shooting Torpedos

dude stfu and gtfo
you are ********

only problem here are retards like me

This KM is from 2different engagements....

Thats why Ishtars have double dmg counted and raptor shooting torpedos....

Logs are not Archon ones but maybe even capsule....

...dude just stop posting... you are idiot

So here's a question for you DinsdaleGǪGǪwhy are you biting his head off over saying that people don't seem to understand the problem that is being presented? He's agreeing with you and you get very aggressive over this fact.

AlsoGǪGǪwhy did you see fit to make the same error he did and then, once again, aggressively abuse him for no good reason? All you're doing is making it more likely for the thread to be locked and to ensure that the error is left unaddressed.

Put another way, could you please stop being on my side on this because you're not helping.

So here's a question for you DinsdaleGǪGǪwhy are you biting his head off over saying that people don't seem to understand the problem that is being presented? He's agreeing with you and you get very aggressive over this fact.

...dude just stop posting... you are idiot

...dude just stop posting... you are idiot

Did you like this post with your alt?

some people like overly obvious trolls

Cleaned up the thread a bit. Please remember to keep it on topic and civil or we'll have to do that thing everyone hates. Thanks!

Please explain for the less literate of us how 5 Sentry drones do 121 K raw alpha, let alone modified alpha.

Sure. Full explanation here

We've noticed this as well and brought the problem forward to CCP, so they're aware of it.

tbh, i petitionned a few ship losses since a year where similar "weird" thing happen.

the answer was always the same: working has intended"

last one i even provided logs, showing the issue, the only answer i got was that CCP was not taking those as proof because of forged logs..... so yah, they aware, and they don't care....as usual....

as for petitioning the loss, he was going to die anyway, so i'm not sure what the point of this is, you should petition it as a bug, however the outcome would not be different, that carrier wasn't tanking in armor, there is no reason to think he was gonna tank in structure.

So you agree that he died to a bug but you don't think that calls for reimbursement? Isn't that the BEST reason to file a petition for reimbursement? Can we please get less trolling and personal opinions on this thread.

There are factual statements and logs showing that 2 lone sentry drones hit for over 250,000 damage and yet people come to this thread and fail to grasp what happened here thinking that OP is whining about sentries in general and not actually reading about this VERY serious bug which may or may not have been taken advantage of on purpose for in game monetary gain of rewards handed out for the Halloween event.

These are the facts. A bug occurred and a Pandemic Legion member profited as a direct result of the bug. Intentional or not it was exploited.

i went to my logs as soon as I saw the killmail with the silly final damages done to the carrier. I found it a bit weird at the time that the carrier disappeared from 5% armor to dead, but didn't think much of it.

going back to the logs however i found this

[ 2013.10.31 00:44:00 ] (combat) 121148 to Icer Xx[P5YCH](Archon) - Curator II - Smashes

so we discovered this pretty much a few minutes after the killmail went up on eve-kill, frankly i'm as puzzled as everyone else.

My guess is that something with refitting bulkheads caused this, since I've never really seen anything like this before.

as for petitioning the loss, he was going to die anyway, so i'm not sure what the point of this is, you should petition it as a bug, however the outcome would not be different, that carrier wasn't tanking in armor, there is no reason to think he was gonna tank in structure.

.
Losses from big fleet fights are not reimbursed, bug or not. GMs feel that would be too much like predicting the outcome of the fight.

The only ship i've ever had reimbursed was a moros that got killed after a dc where the fault was server side, like this. so that's not true in the slightest.

are you going to make me search it up?

i was worried because searching these things is usually a hassle

fortunately for both of us, i'm great.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1827135#post1827135

e: oh you replied in the meantime :S

reimbursement santa works in mysterious ways

Not filing a petition to at least try would be silly then.

That ship being reimbursed though is also not the focus of this thread.

the carrier disappeared from 5% armor to dead

...
as for petitioning the loss, he was going to die anyway, so i'm not sure what the point of this is, you should petition it as a bug, however the outcome would not be different, that carrier wasn't tanking in armor, there is no reason to think he was gonna tank in structure.

So after 4 days of waiting. I get a response saying:

"After having looked at your ticket we have gone over the data we have at our end and we see no irregularities."

Well it seems I should train my dread pilots into an Ishtar then if this is pretty normal thing to happen apparently.

As for the "We" I want to know how many gm's dose it take to look at a log and see something is wrong?

So after 4 days of waiting. I get a response saying:

"After having looked at your ticket we have gone over the data we have at our end and we see no irregularities."

Well it seems I should train my dread pilots into an Ishtar then if this is pretty normal thing to happen apparently.

As for the "We" I want to know how many gm's dose it take to look at a log and see something is wrong?

we see no irregularities.

btw, Icer's spelling of "Thought" is correct in Irish, it's just the way he says it.

Also, this is pretty ridiculous to be honest! I don't really understand the OP Curator II.

As for the "We" I want to know how many gm's dose it take to look at a log and see something is wrong?

That sounds wrong too, but in the exact opposite direction. The lowest possible damage multiplier you're supposed to be able to have is +ù0.5. Unless your sentries do somewhere around 10 HP base damage and/or the structure had some pretty insane resists (they never do), such a low damage shouldn't be possible either.

This sounds different than your case because here there is a server side kill mail that shows the erroneous damage done by 2 Ishtars in conjunction with a video and client side logs.

Three distinct point of views all showing the same thing.

Loki Electronics - Immobility Drivers
Loki Engineering - Capacitor Regeneration Matrix
Loki Defensive - Adaptive Shielding
Loki Offensive - Covert Reconfiguration
Loki Propulsion - Chassis Optimization

Medium Energy Neutralizer II
4x 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II

Large Shield Extender II
Warp Disruptor II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
10MN Microwarpdrive II
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I

Damage Control II
3x Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II

3x Medium Core Defense Field Extender I

These sorts of problems are not new.

ThereGÇÖs an old 2005 Farjung vid GÇ£Wave of MutilationGÇ¥ think its #2 were he insta volleys a freighters 100k hull in one shot. Farjung was able to see it when we was editing his vids and he got in contact with the guy and both of them petitioned it (he did not get the ship back as he was ****** anyway) and it probably got put in a queue of things broken that need fixing in a pile on someoneGÇÖs desk.

ive lost some ships in some strange ways as for damages but if their not a super or a titan i aint gonna complain :D

Aye - I'm aware that structure come after armor :p

Here's the kill mail and the likely fitting of one the the parties.

iirc the dmg done on the killmail is the cumulative dmg - rather than the killing blow.
Subtracting those large dmg shots from the killmail damage done leaves 7778 which is about par for the other participants.

The T2 reinforced bulkheads would have brought structure HP up to around 236k with 3 of them (before resists are taken into account).

I'm not saying there isn't an issue with the dmg shown in the log - something appears off - but at 10% armor the resist are much lower. If both shots hit when the armor was still at 10% ish - and if the remainder of the dmg was applied without taking into account the diff resists from the DC on structure - then it kinda adds up.
Which in turn helps understand where the problem might be.

I am not familiar with capital ships but understand the basics of fitting ships. May I say, you have fitted your expensive archon in a terrible way. Your Archon is paperthin and it is no wonder that it went *poof* in a matter of seconds. You spend tons of ISK for an archon and you use T1 Armor repairers and hulltank it? Sorry but I hope you have learned about your mistakes you just made and after seeing the fit I really doubt that you lost your ship because of a bug, and if it was a bug, well, with that fit you just asked for disappointment and loss.

If you wanna hulltank (because you want the lows for something else but repair modules), then use T2 hull repairers at least in your mid slots in combination to bulkheads in the lows...
If you wanna armor tank, then use T2 Armor repairers at least, but please rather use faction or deadspace stuff, and use Armor tank modules. Always focus on one specific tanking method, either shield tank, armor tank, or if you are really manly, then hull tank for the lulz. But please, even if you are really manly, still do not hulltank.

I guess that one Ishtar would deal around 700-750 DPS by using T2 sentries, and you can be pretty sure that all Ishtars focused you at the same time when you were called as a target, i.e. 14.000 damage per second on a paperthin carrier with no noticeable defenses, relying on 60% resistance strength on the hull, no buffer tank, relying on two T1 armor repairers that cannot deal with the burst damage coming at you.

I am pretty sure that the Ishtars all focused your archon at the same time, thus dealing burst damage, and your fitted ship, with those T1 armor repairers, were rather fitted for dealing with consistent damage coming from for example NPC ships.
You counter burst damage with tank buffer and you counter consistent damage that comes in "small" bursts with tank recovery modules like shield booster and armor repairers.

For PvP, where you can most likely expect burst damage coming at you, you should tank with tank-buffer modules, like armor plates and shield extenders.
For PvE, where rats deal consistent damage to you in small "bursts" through a large amount of ships, then you tank with tank-recovery modules like armor repairers and shield boosters.

To me it seems like you were out there running anomalies with your archon and the Pandemic Legion fleet just caught you off guard and grilled you. In case you fitted the Archon for PvP purposes, then maybe you should consider flying battlecruisers.

Overall I think you should take back your accusations towards the Pandemic Legion and work on yourself. I am also pretty sure that those guys from Pandemic Legion do not really have the need to cheat in the slightest. They know and understand about what they are doing and know how to melt Archons.

there was an entire committee of senior GMs formed today to determine just how much of nothing the logs showed

I am not familiar with capital ships but understand the basics of fitting ships. May I say, you have fitted your expensive archon in a terrible way. Your Archon is paperthin and it is no wonder that it went *poof* in a matter of seconds. You spend tons of ISK for an archon and you use T1 Armor repairers and hulltank it? Sorry but I hope you have learned about your mistakes you just made and after seeing the fit I really doubt that you lost your ship because of a bug, and if it was a bug, well, with that fit you just asked for disappointment and loss.

If you wanna hulltank (because you want the lows for something else but repair modules), then use T2 hull repairers at least in your mid slots in combination to bulkheads in the lows...
If you wanna armor tank, then use T2 Armor repairers at least, but please rather use faction or deadspace stuff, and use Armor tank modules. Always focus on one specific tanking method, either shield tank, armor tank, or if you are really manly, then hull tank for the lulz. But please, even if you are really manly, still do not hulltank.

I guess that one Ishtar would deal around 700-750 DPS by using T2 sentries, and you can be pretty sure that all Ishtars focused you at the same time when you were called as a target, i.e. 14.000 damage per second on a paperthin carrier with no noticeable defenses, relying on 60% resistance strength on the hull, no buffer tank, relying on two T1 armor repairers that cannot deal with the burst damage coming at you.

I am pretty sure that the Ishtars all focused your archon at the same time, thus dealing burst damage, and your fitted ship, with those T1 armor repairers, were rather fitted for dealing with consistent damage coming from for example NPC ships.
You counter burst damage with tank buffer and you counter consistent damage that comes in "small" bursts with tank recovery modules like shield booster and armor repairers.

For PvP, where you can most likely expect burst damage coming at you, you should tank with tank-buffer modules, like armor plates and shield extenders.
For PvE, where rats deal consistent damage to you in small "bursts" through a large amount of ships, then you tank with tank-recovery modules like armor repairers and shield boosters.

To me it seems like you were out there running anomalies with your archon and the Pandemic Legion fleet just caught you off guard and grilled you. In case you fitted the Archon for PvP purposes, then maybe you should consider flying battlecruisers.

Overall I think you should take back your accusations towards the Pandemic Legion and work on yourself. I am also pretty sure that those guys from Pandemic Legion do not really have the need to cheat in the slightest. They know and understand about what they are doing and know how to melt Archons.

Apparently CVA uses T2 capital repair mods all the time.

I seriously don't understand how someone can look at a log that shows a single volley from a single sentry drone of over 100,000 damage and say "obviously he fit his ship wrong".

100k damage with one T1 Curator shot. Well that's interesting. :D
I don't know guys, just good luck with this.

I am not familiar with capital ships but understand the basics of fitting ships. May I say, you have fitted your expensive archon in a terrible way. Your Archon is paperthin and it is no wonder that it went *poof* in a matter of seconds. You spend tons of ISK for an archon and you use T1 Armor repairers and hulltank it? Sorry but I hope you have learned about your mistakes you just made and after seeing the fit I really doubt that you lost your ship because of a bug, and if it was a bug, well, with that fit you just asked for disappointment and loss.

If you wanna hulltank (because you want the lows for something else but repair modules), then use T2 hull repairers at least in your mid slots in combination to bulkheads in the lows...
If you wanna armor tank, then use T2 Armor repairers at least, but please rather use faction or deadspace stuff, and use Armor tank modules. Always focus on one specific tanking method, either shield tank, armor tank, or if you are really manly, then hull tank for the lulz. But please, even if you are really manly, still do not hulltank.

I guess that one Ishtar would deal around 700-750 DPS by using T2 sentries, and you can be pretty sure that all Ishtars focused you at the same time when you were called as a target, i.e. 14.000 damage per second on a paperthin carrier with no noticeable defenses, relying on 60% resistance strength on the hull, no buffer tank, relying on two T1 armor repairers that cannot deal with the burst damage coming at you.

I am pretty sure that the Ishtars all focused your archon at the same time, thus dealing burst damage, and your fitted ship, with those T1 armor repairers, were rather fitted for dealing with consistent damage coming from for example NPC ships.
You counter burst damage with tank buffer and you counter consistent damage that comes in "small" bursts with tank recovery modules like shield booster and armor repairers.

For PvP, where you can most likely expect burst damage coming at you, you should tank with tank-buffer modules, like armor plates and shield extenders.
For PvE, where rats deal consistent damage to you in small "bursts" through a large amount of ships, then you tank with tank-recovery modules like armor repairers and shield boosters.

To me it seems like you were out there running anomalies with your archon and the Pandemic Legion fleet just caught you off guard and grilled you. In case you fitted the Archon for PvP purposes, then maybe you should consider flying battlecruisers.

Overall I think you should take back your accusations towards the Pandemic Legion and work on yourself. I am also pretty sure that those guys from Pandemic Legion do not really have the need to cheat in the slightest. They know and understand about what they are doing and know how to melt Archons.

100k damage with one T1 Curator shot. Well that's interesting.
I don't know guys, just good luck with this.

Generally if you don't know.... don't say anything.



Generally.

So after 4 days of waiting. I get a response saying:

"After having looked at your ticket we have gone over the data we have at our end and we see no irregularities."

Well it seems I should train my dread pilots into an Ishtar then if this is pretty normal thing to happen apparently.

As for the "We" I want to know how many gm's dose it take to look at a log and see something is wrong?

100k damage with one T1 Curator shot. Well that's interesting.
I don't know guys, just good luck with this.

Well at least I know now that it is a pretty dumb idea to hulltank an Archon. Thank you for proofing that. Furthermore, if you were repairing those 10k DPS, then why on earth you did not spam Armor Membranes as much as possible in order to maximize the repair-efficiency?

This thread is fishy guys. Good luck with your case.

Ah. To be clear, I'm not saying that a petition should not be made asking for reimbursement should this turn out to be a bug which it almost certainly is

100k damage with one T1 Curator shot. Well that's interesting.
I don't know guys, just good luck with this.

I am not familiar with capital ships

I am not familiar with capital ships but understand the basics of fitting ships. May I say, you have fitted your expensive archon in a terrible way. Your Archon is paperthin and it is no wonder that it went *poof* in a matter of seconds. You spend tons of ISK for an archon and you use T1 Armor repairers and hulltank it? Sorry but I hope you have learned about your mistakes you just made and after seeing the fit I really doubt that you lost your ship because of a bug, and if it was a bug, well, with that fit you just asked for disappointment and loss.

If you wanna hulltank (because you want the lows for something else but repair modules), then use T2 hull repairers at least in your mid slots in combination to bulkheads in the lows...
If you wanna armor tank, then use T2 Armor repairers at least, but please rather use faction or deadspace stuff, and use Armor tank modules. Always focus on one specific tanking method, either shield tank, armor tank, or if you are really manly, then hull tank for the lulz. But please, even if you are really manly, still do not hulltank.

I guess that one Ishtar would deal around 700-750 DPS by using T2 sentries, and you can be pretty sure that all Ishtars focused you at the same time when you were called as a target, i.e. 14.000 damage per second on a paperthin carrier with no noticeable defenses, relying on 60% resistance strength on the hull, no buffer tank, relying on two T1 armor repairers that cannot deal with the burst damage coming at you.

I am pretty sure that the Ishtars all focused your archon at the same time, thus dealing burst damage, and your fitted ship, with those T1 armor repairers, were rather fitted for dealing with consistent damage coming from for example NPC ships.
You counter burst damage with tank buffer and you counter consistent damage that comes in "small" bursts with tank recovery modules like shield booster and armor repairers.

For PvP, where you can most likely expect burst damage coming at you, you should tank with tank-buffer modules, like armor plates and shield extenders.
For PvE, where rats deal consistent damage to you in small "bursts" through a large amount of ships, then you tank with tank-recovery modules like armor repairers and shield boosters.

To me it seems like you were out there running anomalies with your archon and the Pandemic Legion fleet just caught you off guard and grilled you. In case you fitted the Archon for PvP purposes, then maybe you should consider flying battlecruisers.

Overall I think you should take back your accusations towards the Pandemic Legion and work on yourself. I am also pretty sure that those guys from Pandemic Legion do not really have the need to cheat in the slightest. They know and understand about what they are doing and know how to melt Archons.

You think one drone doing a quarter of a million in damage per shot is "almost certainly" a bug?

Way to take a stand there, buddy. You "might" be right!

So after 4 days of waiting. I get a response saying:

"After having looked at your ticket we have gone over the data we have at our end and we see no irregularities."

Well it seems I should train my dread pilots into an Ishtar then if this is pretty normal thing to happen apparently.

As for the "We" I want to know how many gm's dose it take to look at a log and see something is wrong?

If it was a Moros.. Ok I can see that.

A sentry drone?

Assuming t2 drone does 200 dps each

To get to the point of doing enough in 1 shot, you'd need about.. 200 ishtars (or droneboats), assuming 200 dps per sentry drone.

Removed a post with GM correspondence.

And after armor comes structure, hence the 60% resist.
He also had 3(?) reinforced bulkhead IIs, bringing his structure HP up to 335,693.

The two sentries hit for 129,893 and 121,148 damage after resists. If this damage were done entirely to structure it would have been about 314,000 average raw damage per sentry.

Just to demonstrate how ridiculous this is: a Bouncer II on a fully skilled Ishtar with 5x "Unit W-634's Drone Damage Amplifier" has a volley damage of 654, which means in the very best case scenario you'll get wrecking shots 1% of the time for 1,962 damage (before resists). Not 300,000+ damage.
Even if every sentry had a wrecking shot (which has a (0.01 ^ 5) = 1 in 10 billion chance of happening) it would only deal 9,804 damage total. And then it would show five wrecking shots, not just one.

I think i've spotted the "issue" you mentioned he was refitting, the damage those sentries did is about the same as the hull he would have "gained" from the bulkheads, which means all those drones actually did was reduce his hull to the level it was at prior to him refitting during a fight, to be fair i'm against the whole refitting during a fight myself, if you start a fight you should commit to it, it would be like starting a boxing match then half way through a round you slip a brick in to your right glove and start hitting the other guy, if you start something you should be prepared to finish it imo, but thats not what CCP chose to do they instead opted to use a system which could break in these interesting ways :P

just a question for OP, could you reupload the video but with no music, im from australia and youtube says one of the many dozen music companies that owns content in your video, is blocking it to me lol

That rule is too ******* broad to be helpful. In this case not allowing us to share the GM correspondence in question hurts things more than it helps. GM confirmation of the existence of a bug is not something that need be kept confidential between the two parties involved.

You should not have removed that post.
In any case, anyone who still wants to see it will be able to find it on eve-search

That rule is too ******* broad to be helpful. In this case not allowing us to share the GM correspondence in question hurts things more than it helps. GM confirmation of the existence of a bug is not something that need be kept confidential between the two parties involved.

You should not have removed that post.
In any case, anyone who still wants to see it will be able to find it on eve-search

No, that's not what happened.