Bah you and your silly maximum of 5b :P

I would take 5b, if there is room.

I'd like to invest 500 million, if there's room and you'd allow a smaller amount (I know you said 100m minimum, but it seems that you're getting a load of the multi-billion offers).

Pending space in the bond i would like to take 2bil

let me know

Sorry. Small beer I know but I have made some of my best relationships in the game through having a broad pool of investors. Given all you have done for me over the years I would love to have you on the list!

Damn you for not approaching me ....

Damn you for not approaching me ....

Can reserve 30b (5b each from 6 alts ) for me in the event everyone magically runs away.

You need to pay more attention flakeys:

VV and flakeys have until 2100 eve time to get in if they want. However, unless there are any objections, if they don't make the cutoff but still want to invest I will arrange something privately with each of them to a max of 5bil, potentially increasing my total exposure to 40bil.

There's always room for you (see Kith's post above). It wouldn't feel like a proper bond in your absence.




Grendell is now my official backup in case of malicious wizardry.

Aye i just read it mate thanks for thinking of me , can i get a HUG ? .

This thread gives me a warm, snuggly happy feeling.

Its like a load of old friends having a reunion.

Good luck with the bond!

@Careby - feel free to send your chunk whenever you are ready as I will be coming to separate arrangements with flakeys and VV (although I'll track both in this thread).

Thanks Careby!

All isk has now been received. I did a little bit of exploratory playing around with the first half of the isk for an hour in a quiet period in Jita yesterday afternoon and updated my orders once this morning (c. 15 mins). Net profit so far is over a billion .

I'll report back in a week with news from the front.

Impressive, indeed.

Keep up the good work ;)

To quote an oldie : You ain't seen nothing yet ....

...The strategy I'm following could yield about 4-5bil a day...

To quote an oldie : You ain't seen nothing yet ....

Seriously, though, this bond won't see the kind of massive profits I have aimed at in the past. I have very limited objectives this time (c. 10bil a month); just enough to cover interest, plexes and ships to lose, plus a little extra on the side. The strategy I'm following could yield about 4-5bil a day ...

One day I'll learn how to do that heart thing Grendell does, but in the meantime - HUG. But just in case you have your mind set on 'backroom dealings' bear in mind that this is a platonic hug.

Wow, your strategy could potentially yield 120-150 B ISK in a month, and yet, no one find it odd that you are asking for 30 B.

Why would they find that odd? The strategy could yield 120-150bil a month ...

Well, I find it odd. You can make the bond amount in a week, yet you are here asking for the ISK. In the past, Bonds that claimed such great returns have been dismissed as "too good to be true".


I find it odd that no one ask why bother when you can make the ISK in a week.

Because to make the isk in a week I first have to have the bond. And just because the strategy can earn enough to make that isk in a week doesn't mean that I am going to grind for six to eight hours a day when I neither need to nor want to.

A few other things to bear in mind:

Firstly, I didn't mention what returns the strategy could potentially produce until after the bond was filled, so the bond wasn't sold on the basis of those profit levels (indeed, I wasn't really sure about potential maximum profit levels until after I had received some isk and had played around with the plan a little bit). Rather, as the OP states, my objective is to earn 10bil a month and the bond was filled by people expecting those actual returns, not larger merely potential returns that will never materialise.

Secondly, since I have a documented history of producing similar profit levels in the past (not quite as high but pretty close), I don't see why anyone would be particularly sceptical about my ability to do so in the present.

Thirdly, as I mention in the OP, I am being assisted in the current plan by Rykker Bow's encyclopedic knowledge of Jita trading and he has a documented history of hitting exactly such profit levels in the past (the coincidence of the potential profit levels I mention and his historical profit levels is ... well ... not a coincidence).

I suspect the lack of suspicion directed towards this bond is also partly due to the fact that I have held greater public debt in the past and that this level of borrowing represents a decrease rather than an increase in potential risk levels.

And still, all those words can't explain how someone that makes such marvelous profits does not have 30B ISK. Yes, very odd.

Odd, strange, unusual, weird, pick your word.

It is strange for anyone who makes 120-150 B ISK a month come here and ask for 30 B ISK. You claim you gave all your ISK away, which again is unusual. Most people I know keep a bit of ISK in case they want to come back.


I think you too will find it strange.

Well, I find it odd. You can make the bond amount in a week, yet you are here asking for the ISK. In the past, Bonds that claimed such great returns have been dismissed as "too good to be true".


I find it odd that no one ask why bother when you can make the ISK in a week.

I don't 'make 120-150bil a month'. Please stop making claims on my behalf and then acting as if it was me who made them.

The strategy I'm following could yield about 4-5bil a day ...

Why would they find that odd? The strategy could yield 120-150bil a month ...

The strategy could yield 120-150bil a month, in theory, if I had nothing better to do with my time, if I had 30-40bil of start-up capital. Without the isk I have raised through this bond to run that plan the plan will yield precisely nothing. In any case, the plan as it will actually be operated will probably only yield 10-20bil per month as that is all I currently want.

Wow, your strategy could potentially yield 120-150 B ISK in a month, and yet, no one find it odd that you are asking for 30 B.

Wow - you manage to combine maliciousness and deceit with a deep-seated stupidity at the same time. That's a pretty impressive set of negative qualities you are displaying.

I don't think so. You claimed you could make 4-5 B a day not me. I simply extrapolated your claim to a one month period, so it shows the magnitude of your claim, which seems unreal.

I simply extrapolated your claim to a one month period

I ... extrapolated your claim

I ... extrapolated

Yes. YOU extrapolated a claim ...

Edit - I'm also very sorry if these kind of potential earnings seem unreal to you. I know that they match up with the kind of figures your own business was posting as annual earnings using more than ten times the capital. But your inability to grasp what can be done with the markets in EvE is not my responsibility. If it's any consolation, I'm sure your earnings didn't require you to grind more than five hours a day, which is what these potential profit levels would conservatively need.

You forgot to say, that in all these years he never accepted to be audited once.

This lack of transparency, considering the hundreds of investor billions held for so many years, does not really entitle to go count the beans in somebody else's home.

Yes I extrapolated YOUR claim to build a reasonable question. There is no need for you to be so condescending and arrogant.

Just wanted to drop in to say good luck over the two months.

On a somewhat-related note, I do find it kind of weird that more people don't make the transition from borrower to lender as they get wealthier/more experienced, this thread being an example. With imperfect corp security, Eve market activity/industry only scale so far.

Wow, your strategy could potentially yield 120-150 B ISK in a month, and yet, no one find it odd that you are asking for 30 B.

I did hit 2 bil a moment ago though

I've a few business plans that can generate roughly 100b in profits per month but that does not mean I have the capital on hand to put them into action.

... it is quite tricky becoming a lender who holds their own collateral as you have to be trusted not to run off with it.

Isn't that just evidence that the self-held collateralized lending business on MD isn't competitive? Anyone could solve that problem by offering higher collateral valuation (or requiring less collateral). The longstanding MD practice of valuing BPOs at NPC value in particular could be Exhibit A.

(Not that I'm biased and have a giant stack of researched BPOs I like using as collateral. No sir.)

In case you have not noticed BSAC is closed.

Perhaps, he should give me his key so I can audit him.

LOL just got to laugh at this thread. All the MD Elite are here about to rake in billions and make it look easy while giving people a chance to make some easy isk and there are questions about the credibility of RAW23.

I'm just disappointed I did get in on the bond ah well maybe next time.

There is allways room to doubt someones credibility , yes even that of RAW because end of the line anyone is a potential scammer .I would never dare say that Raw or for that part grendell is a 100 % safe investment even though i trust them enough to loan reasonable amounts.

There is allways room to doubt someones credibility , yes even that of RAW because end of the line anyone is a potential scammer .I would never dare say that Raw or for that part grendell is a 100 % safe investment even though i trust them enough to loan reasonable amounts.


The funny thing here is not THAT his credibility is being discussed but WHO is discussing it.

If one of them scammed, for me it'd be a terrible blow. I could not care the less to lose 100B or 200B over them, per se but I'd be so devastated by the person betrayal that I am not sure I would keep playing.

Flakeys is quite right. There should be questions and I shouldn't get a free pass because of my background. One of the biggest dangers the investment market has suffered from in the past is a lack of oversight and an unwillingness to challenge the Old Guard. I don't even have a problem with Block doing the challenging or asking the questions, despite knowing that this comes from an old grudge rather than any real concern for the investment.

The issue I have with his posts in this thread is a) that they attempt to indirectly insinuate things without having the courage to actually say what he means, and b) that when we do get to the bottom of what he means, most of it just doesn't make any sense (by which I mean that it is devoid of logic). I should have become used to this by now as Block is pretty notorious for being unable to string two thoughts together coherently in a post but I'm afraid I let my anger get the best of me last night and responded to his posts in a way that gave them greater credence than they deserved.

In short, scrutiny is just as important on large bonds raised by experienced people as it is on small bonds raised by the inexperienced.

You don't seem to take my comment very well. Like I explained before, my comment was based on YOUR claim. No need to be so extreme.



How about you give the API of all your characters and I'll audit your bond?

I didn't like your comments because they didn't make sense. You have serious problems with logic and language that make it extremely frustrating to communicate with you. Unfortunately, my frustration at dealing with irrational statements got the better of me last night and I made the mistake of trying to point out the errors in your thinking to you. I won't waste my time doing that again because you don't seem willing to learn.

As to the audit, please stop trolling Block. Why would I give my api to someone with a history of deceitful behaviour and an obvious grudge against me? Oh, and someone who has spent his career trying to avoid audits by claiming that audits are of no use?

I'm not trolling about the audit. How about you give me your API key to audit you?


It's a very simple question; yes or no will do.

Of course I won't. You have a documented history of public deception, you have deliberately misrepresented me in this thread, and you are not a very rationally competent individual. I have no idea why you would even begin to think that I would allow you to carry out an audit. It's a ridiculous request and can only be classified as trolling.

So I ask a question and now I'm trolling. I knew you would come up with some excuses not to give me your API key. I suppose it's ok to audit anyone but you.

I have done audits before and I can do the audit myself. And, I won't charge you a penny.


Contrary to what you keep posting about me, I have been respectful to you. You on the other hand keep calling me names in an attempt to silence me; a very typical bully behavior.


I'll see you on your next bond,
Block Ukx

I'll see you on your next bond,

If you want to pay for me to be audited and can find someone trustworthy with a solid history of carrying out audits I am more than happy to go ahead with one. Again. Like my previous two audits.

Hasn't Block refused audits on his business in the past? What is he on about here?

If you want I can performance audit you (for free). As I said above I can't believably deliver a "full" audit because I am emotionally involved but performance data parses are quite objective and could still hold some value.

This assuming you took a "relaxed" stance towards trading, ATM I can't spend 2-3 hours a day just gathering your data like I used to do once, I can max run the software once a day, better every 2-3 days.

Thanks for the offer VV but I have always been against auditors working for free. If Block wants proof that I can earn 10bil a month then he can pay the market rate for that data. I would be surprised if anyone else doubts I can hit the target I am aiming at. After all, I was earning 2.7bil a week a month after I started playing the game, as my very first audit showed.

...

30billion isk non collaterized Bond 5% not one person says it to low. Oh it ones of your palls its the old boys network. If it was you trying this , even if you had proof of being trustworthy the indigantion of these people here would be unbelievable. Absolute uproar. Kinda ironic that you wont let Block audit you after all the hassle you gave him. He asks the same of you and you refuse.

I must say i support Block Ukx been around longtime, always been honest and reasonable i believe.

Same old faces same old elites. They recommend there own non collaterized bonds and those of their friends with very low interest rates. When you try to do the same, be treated the same no you cant do that Tom. You dont deserve a low interest rate non collaterized bond you have to pay 10, 13 15 per cent. Even though you proven to them that you are trustworthy with evidence, that you have handled alot of isk not stolen it.

I remember the guys who lent me isk im grateful, i did the first ever gambling bond with poker, and MarchRabbit lent me isk for the non collaterized bond i ran at very low interest rate(3%), but only what other elites were also getting at the time. Elites they did there best to put people off from lending me the isk. Just want to be given fair shake, treated the same as others.

Im glad you guys never gave me any isk , i wouldnt take it now if you tried to force it on me. I did things my way the hardway because guys like you dont like guys like me, want to be treated fair just like everyone else. You never got any interest out of Tommy.

I made my isk i dont generally hang here no more. Hopefully ill never have to come here again asking for isk. Made me laugh to see the old elites still spouting out the same old bull.

.

30billion isk non collaterized Bond 5% not one person says it to low. Oh it ones of your palls its the old boys network. If it was you trying this , even if you had proof of being trustworthy the indigantion of these people here would be unbelievable.

Kinda ironic that you wont let Block audit you after all the hassle you gave him. He asks the same of you and you refuse.

I dont think we need to worry about Block Ukx he has shown himself to be a stand up guy.

This is great chance for people looking for passive income from ivestments where 90 percent of the profits go to the investors.

Being offered by one of the Greats of MD in my opinion.

Block Ukx has been around along time and has shown himself to be a man of integrity and honesty.

He's been running a big business now for along time, paying his investors on time and without any problems.

Now there could be somethings Block doesnt want to disclose not because he is hiding anything, but just because it may potentially harm his business to do so. If thats the case youve just got to except that and move on.

I said it yesterday and ill say it today this an A+++ investment opertunity, from someone who has proven himself to be so over many years.

Block Ukx dont need no audit, thats a fact

It's not ironic at all. I never asked Block to let me audit him. Instead I offered to pay for a neutral third party to carry out an audit on his business. He refused. Well, he agreed and then he didn't do it. Given that Block has been dishonest in his dealings with me, why on earth would I let him audit me? I have actually offered the same deal that I put to him - he pays and a third party does the audit. Again, he refused. He refused because he didn't really want an audit, he just wanted to cause trouble as a form of revenge because I asked for some transparency from his business back in January 2011 (a long time to hold a petty grudge).

You have a documented history of public deception, you have deliberately misrepresented me in this thread, and you are not a very rationally competent individual.

For someone that clearly has an ability to make vast amounts of ISK, asking for a mere 30b does seem strange.

I also was surprised that for someone of your ability, you only had 400b ISK to give away.

Could you provide proof of his public history of deception that you claim exists?

You seem to be afflicted with the same difficulty in grasping temporal sequences as Block. The ability to make the isk requires first having the 30bil. There is nothing 'strange' about first getting the capital and then making the isk. It is precisely the same order of events that was necessary for Block's own offerings. First you raise the isk, then you put the business plan into action. Unless you both share a time machine I fail to see how you can fail to grasp this simple point. If a plan requires capital that you do not possess, the fact that the plan can make isk in the future does not remove the need for possession of the start-up isk in the present.

The thing is, being able to make 100 billion a month is not the same thing as wanting to make 100 billion a month. I have been able to make these kinds of returns for a long time. The problem is that doing so is both boring and time-consuming while at the same time I have no real need for that kind of income. Why, then, would I waste my time not enjoying myself in order to make huge piles of cash? Just because I can? Isk is not the be all and end all for me. When I first started playing my ambition was to become a trillionaire. Once I had completed the challenge of working out how to do that I found that I had no desire at all to actually do the boring, repetitive and unchallenging work of amassing pointless amounts of isk. So I stopped. The only strange thing here is that neither you nor Block seem able to grasp the point I have repeatedly made that there is a huge difference between potential earnings and the actual earnings that I choose to pursue. You too could have these earnings, by the way. I'm happy to sell you a business plan according to which you could earn 100 billion a month by grinding isk for 6-8 hours a day. Would it be 'strange' if you didn't want to do that?

I will give three examples:

1) In this thread Block has made claims on my behalf and when I have denied that I have made such claims he has deliberately misquoted my words, editing them in order to try to make them look as if they support his claims while the portions he removed explicitly denied what he was saying (https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3848515#post3848515). That is outright dishonest and the intention was clearly deceptive. Incidentally, it was only at that point in the thread that I started doing what you call 'making ad hominem attacks' and what I would call 'offering accurate assessments of his character and reliability'.

2) One example from Block's public business dealings. He stated a) that his board of directors had developed a plan that would be discussed but would not proceed unless it received approval from the shareholders; b) he announced that the shareholders had approved the plan; c) when I asked him if the directors controlled sufficient shares to make the vote a foregone conclusion he didn't say yes but instead said I could see who the shareholders were by examining the public roster; d) on examination of the roster it appeared as if the directors did not have a controlling interest; e) but a lucky bit of searchfu turned up the fact that the shareholder with 60% of the shares was in fact an alt of one of the directors; f) only at which point did he admit that the shareholder vote could never have departed from the decisions of the directors.
(http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=1445225&page=9#241)

At best, this was an intellectually dishonest response to the question. At worst it was a deliberate attempt to deceive, since the clear implication of all that had gone before was that the decision of the shareholders was something independent from the suggestion of the plan by the directors. His answers to that particular question were on a par with his deceitful attempts to evade scrutiny throughout the rest of that thread.

3) Then, of course, there was the audit that he was going to get to confirm that BSAC's holdings were sufficient to cover their public exposure. Despite a lot of song and dance and various stages of evasion, it never turned up. His behaviour over that particular matter was riddled with dishonesty.

and you are...?

Wait, TomHorn tried to get investors to fund his poker playing, what a stupid idea....

30billion isk non collaterized Bond 5% not one person says it to low.

Visited thread on page one.

Went to get a log for the fire.

.
.
.
WTF happened?!?

Well I guess for one moment I hoped that eve had a soft underbelly that i just hadn't seen before.

It can't all be deception lies and theivery.

Show me the love trust and hope!

If a drunk tramp stands outside a wedding, ranting and raving before being led off by the police, does that make the sentiments of love expressed inside any less beautiful?

If a drunk tramp stands outside a wedding, ranting and raving before being led off by the police, does that make the sentiments of love expressed inside any less beautiful?

Quick progress report.

I ran the plan for five active days just after receiving the investments and made c. 5bil for 1-2 hours of trading a day in that time. Average income per hour is somewhere between 600 and 800mil an hour (can't be more precise than this as I didn't log the exact number of minutes I spent trading each day).

I lost c. 500mil on a small trial manipulation attempt and hanging on to some goods that dropped in value after the five day burst. Lessons learnt: don't try to manipulate a market where there is more supply than demand

I ran the plan for five active days just after receiving the investments and made c. 5bil for 1-2 hours of trading a day in that time. Average income per hour is somewhere between 600 and 800mil an hour (can't be more precise than this as I didn't log the exact number of minutes I spent trading each day).

Mate you have so much patience, if I had to trade 1-2 hours a day I'd lose my sanity! Assuming I have one to begin with, of course.

The trend is your friend. Even in EvE. Even when you manipulate.

Very nice numbers RAW. Quite impressive! I do believe you've found your zen between the spreads

Roideater... Nice..

Either that or you are grossly under reporting time spent updating to reach that 0.5-1x turnover per 20m session assuming you don't update individual orders multiple times in that session. Effectively a turnover of 3x a day with 2% margin per item traded means a 1.8b profit per day (9b/5d), which is inconsistent with the self reported 5.5b profit (omitting manipulation loss).

Analysis

The key to the whole thing, really, is not so much finding the most profitable items or the items with the best margins but rather the items that fit with the trading pattern I am using. That is where Rykker's knowledge came in because he has been trading on a similar pattern on and off for years and he knows which items are worth looking at. Volume is important and so are margins but you don't actually want anything with too good a margin because that will bring the vultures in and the excessive competition will likely crowd out anyone who is not updating frequently. On the other hand, having a few highly competitive items on the list means that good profits can be made any time I choose to have a longer session at the keyboard by focusing on a smaller basket for the most part while the rest of the items do their own thing on their longer update intervals.

"More Clues"

"More Clues"

I've probably already said it, but...

Welcome back RAW, I've missed you, please don't leave us again.

"above post"

Odd, strange, unusual, weird, pick your word.

It is strange for anyone who makes 120-150 B ISK a month come here and ask for 30 B ISK. You claim you gave all your ISK away, which again is unusual. Most people I know keep a bit of ISK in case they want to come back.

I think you too will find it strange.

Kinda ironic that you wont let Block audit you after all the hassle you gave him. He asks the same of you and you refuse.

BTW RAW :) Shame on you for not emailing me. Back on the 5th I'd have happily jumped in on this bond.

Hey Taram! Good to see you!

I did think about mailing you but I worried it would be an imposition since you had been steering clear of the forums these past many months. I felt like I was coercing you a bit last time I mentioned it but since I seem to have read that wrong I'll guarantee you a spot on the next one It will be great to have my very first investor back!

First batch of interest has been paid out.

Profit this month was c. 12bil from two short bursts of trading.

First batch of interest has been paid out.

Due to a surprising spike in my buy orders just before I was planning to hit the sack I'm tapping VV for a 10bil overnight loan. This takes me 5bil over what I said I would raise in this thread. I hope my current investors don't mind. It is very temporary (24 hours tops) and I promise not to do it again. I just couldn't bear the idea of a) not updating before bed, and b) having a load of orders die because there is not enough in escrow.

How can I believe inverest to u is right and insure I can get money back?
By Likes received: 579 ?

I bought and sold more than 50 PLEX by my 0.19%brokerfee alt from JTIA ,but still not find out how u did as u said. sir

I ... I'm not quite sure what you're saying.

would like to reserve 5b on any additions or new loans if that is possible.

Please post here if you are interested in rolling your investments over until the 19th of January.

If someone else wants to take my spot (5b) in this bond on January 5, I will gladly step aside.

Careby - I have returned your capital plus interest today. Thanks for the investment!

Confirm interest received and damn you Blueprint Seller - you beat me to it for the other 5 bil :(

All isk plus interest has been returned.

I had never really understood before the slight savagery that came over Rykker when he talked about the markets, assuming it was just a jokey way of presenting things. Now I got it.