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Dexter Rast
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Posted - 2006.02.12 02:36:00 -
[1]
ok to put this one as simple as i can get it, why is the manticore allowed to fit 3x BS sized weapons e.g. cruise launchers and get bonus for them and the other 3 race bombers can only fit 2x BS sized weapons?
ill use my hound as an example, against the manticore
Minmatar Frigate Skill Bonus: 19.65% reduction in Cruise Launcher
powergrid needs and 5% bonus to Small Projectile Turret damage per
level
Covert Ops Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to Cruise Missile explosive damage
and 25% bonus to cloaked velocity per level
now this ship receives a 5% bonus to a frigate sized weapon, as well as a 5% bonus to 2x cruise launchers when you train the covert ops skill, that all seems ok untill you look at the manticore
Caldari Frigate Skill Bonus: 19.65% reduction in
Cruise Launcher powergrid needs and 5% bonus to
Cruise Missile kinetic damage per level
Covert Ops Skill Bonus: 5% reduction in Cruise
Launcher powergrid needs and 25% bonus to
cloaked velocity per level
ok this baby recieves 2x fitting bonus aswell as a 25% damage to cruise missiles as you need frig 5 to fly the thing in the first place, enabling it to feild 3x BS sized weapons in the cruise launchers,
there is absolutely no reason to pick any amarr, gallente or minmatar stealth bomber over the manticore,
sure i know that caldari have missiles as their race`s weapon BUT why doesnt the manticore have 2x cruise and 1 frig sized weapon e.g. launcher like the rest of the bombers? or let me have the grid to fit a 1200 howitzer on my hound with the bonus`s to go with it plz
sorry if this comes across as a rant, but in comparison the the manticore the other bombers are just cr@p,
this isnt a call to nerf the manti, i think its just about right, but the other bombers definately need a boost so they can compete
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Please use a signature that conforms with the EVE-Online forum rules for signatures - Jacques' |
Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2006.02.12 02:38:00 -
[2]
The Hound is the better bomber afaik. It does explosive damage, and it can be used for assualt which the Manticore (which is VERY hard to fit) cannot.
Digital Communist> The Jin-Mei are probably more profficient in training for Tofu and Noodles than Spaceship Command |
Aeaus
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Posted - 2006.02.12 02:39:00 -
[3]
Developers have already said that all stealth bombers will have equal launcher high points soon.
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Dust Angel
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Posted - 2006.02.12 02:43:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Aeaus
Developers have already said that all stealth bombers will have equal launcher high points soon.
orly?
_____________________________________
Stressed out with empire politics?
Sansha's Nation helps clear your mind.
If you can't handle the heat, out of the fire. -Capsicum |
Dexter Rast
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Posted - 2006.02.12 02:46:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Aeaus
Developers have already said that all stealth bombers will have equal launcher high points soon.
well that is great news to my ears 
was getting frustrated with my hound, guess ill put the old girl back in the hanger till the change happens
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Please use a signature that conforms with the EVE-Online forum rules for signatures - Jacques' |
Mudkest
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Posted - 2006.02.12 02:50:00 -
[6]
manticore has other penalties. lowest scan resolution(so longest lock time), slowest ship, heaviest ship(so slowest to align for warp), has lowest warprange of the stealthbombers I think. lowest cargospace(so can carry least amount of ammo and fires it fastest)
Developers have already said that all stealth bombers will have equal launcher high points soon. so, that either means manti gets 2 or the rest gets 3. either way, manticore probably becomes least favorite bomber when(if?) that happens.
-Would you attack a lion with a brooch-pin?
Why would a lion have a brooch-pin? |
Dexter Rast
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Posted - 2006.02.12 02:56:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Mudkest
manticore has other penalties. lowest scan resolution(so longest lock time), slowest ship, heaviest ship(so slowest to align for warp), has lowest warprange of the stealthbombers I think. lowest cargospace(so can carry least amount of ammo and fires it fastest)
well if that is so they should re-look at the entire range and bring them up to speed with each other, last thing we need is changes that just put another bomber at the top of the pile, i think the damage type is enough to seperate each race and make them all usefull, as simple as keeping caldari kinetic and minmatar explosive, imho that should be the only differece in the ships, then each would serve a role
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Please use a signature that conforms with the EVE-Online forum rules for signatures - Jacques' |
Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2006.02.12 03:07:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Aeaus
Developers have already said that all stealth bombers will have equal launcher high points soon.
Linkplz.
Digital Communist> The Jin-Mei are probably more profficient in training for Tofu and Noodles than Spaceship Command |
Kery Nysell
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Posted - 2006.02.12 03:46:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Kery Nysell on 12/02/2006 03:48:41
Originally by: Aeaus
Developers have already said that all stealth bombers will have equal launcher high points soon.
I really doubt that.
And considering the T1 hulls for those T2 bombers, I would say that the Manticore will keep it's third launcher ... I was surprised when I saw it "only" had three launchers, since it's Kestrel base hull can have four ...
But yes, there's something wrong in the fact that other bombers receive bonii to Small weapons while the Manticore gets a double bonus to Cruise Missiles ...
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Kyozoku
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Posted - 2006.02.12 04:27:00 -
[10]
Reading your post it doesn't sound like you've flown a manticore before. I fly every bomber and the hype about it's 3rd launcher is complete *******s.
The hound has many advantages over the manti.
The explosive bonus is better than kin.
It can achieve a higher dps than the manti if it uses It's turrets.
It can fit more bcu
It has the highest scan resolution of any bomber. (huge huge advantage)
Purifiers can also outdamage a manti and fit more bcu. It's the easiest bomber to fit and has the best cap to boot.
The nemesis has nice balanced attributes but is **** because it doesn't have enough grid to make proper use of it's turrets.
The nemesis needs more grid and the purifier could use something to make it stand out more like a big laser range bonus. Apart from that they're not unbalanced at all.
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Ante
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Posted - 2006.02.12 05:29:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Aeaus
Developers have already said that all stealth bombers will have equal launcher high points soon.
They never said that. 'Balancing' the stealth bombers doesn't mean they all get 3 launchers.
Originally by: Kyozoku
Reading your post it doesn't sound like you've flown a manticore before. I fly every bomber and the hype about it's 3rd launcher is complete *******s.
QFT
Hound does it for me. Can have some pretty nice setups.
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boomBox
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Posted - 2006.02.12 05:30:00 -
[12]
The other three can out damage the manti if they want to get close. I use my nemesis and purifier in extremely close range setups, and they work really nice for ganking soft targets.
The other three definately need something done, I'd suggest easier fitting through some stat changes. But after using them for a while, I don't know if adding a third launcher slot to the others is what they need.
They are really fun ships, and can be devestating if used right. I dont think we need four manticore clones.
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Cruzcampo
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Posted - 2006.02.12 05:39:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Aeaus
Developers have already said that all stealth bombers will have equal launcher high points soon.
So they're removing a missile hardpoint from the Manticore then 
If that's actually what they said. Which I doubt.
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Kaathar Rielspar
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Posted - 2006.02.12 06:29:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Kaathar Rielspar on 12/02/2006 06:29:21
Originally by: Dexter Rast
...sure i know that caldari have missiles as their race`s weapon BUT why doesnt the manticore have 2x cruise and 1 frig sized weapon e.g. launcher like the rest of the bombers? or let me have the grid to fit a 1200 howitzer on my hound with the bonus`s to go with it plz...
I really like this idea, would help to balance out the omission of the 3rd launcher on other ships. Why not add a PG reduction ro large arty/rails ship bonus to bombers? could also add turret hardpoints to the Manti to give people that caldari rail-ship. it would also make the Hound more potent as it could use emp shells in the guns with explosive missiles. could be interesting.
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Xio2
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Posted - 2006.02.12 06:36:00 -
[15]
screw balance. everything should be unique :-)
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now this is the way a sig should be
Xio2 |
No Wai
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Posted - 2006.02.12 07:14:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Dust Angel
Originally by: Aeaus
Developers have already said that all stealth bombers will have equal launcher high points soon.
orly?
YA RLY!
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Rafein
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Posted - 2006.02.12 08:32:00 -
[17]
Caldari are the missile speciailist race, so should have the best missile based ship, of which all stealth bombers are.
It's like comparing the Gal Carrier to the Caldari's. Gall Carrier has a fighter damage bonus no other carrier has. Why, Gal are drone based.
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DarK
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Posted - 2006.02.12 08:48:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Rafein
Caldari are the missile speciailist race, so should have the best missile based ship, of which all stealth bombers are.
It's like comparing the Gal Carrier to the Caldari's. Gall Carrier has a fighter damage bonus no other carrier has. Why, Gal are drone based.
lol.
When creating a niche ship class based on a particular race's specialty, it's a bit retarded for only the specialist race to have the only good one.
Within the the broad class that is frigates, cruisers and battleships, it is fine to have each race being best in it's roleplaying speciality.
Fighters are Caldari, not Gallente.
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Harlequinn
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Posted - 2006.02.13 14:45:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Kyozoku
Reading your post it doesn't sound like you've flown a manticore before. I fly every bomber and the hype about it's 3rd launcher is complete *******s.
The hound has many advantages over the manti.
The explosive bonus is better than kin.
It can achieve a higher dps than the manti if it uses It's turrets.
It can fit more bcu
It has the highest scan resolution of any bomber. (huge huge advantage)
Purifiers can also outdamage a manti and fit more bcu. It's the easiest bomber to fit and has the best cap to boot.
The nemesis has nice balanced attributes but is **** because it doesn't have enough grid to make proper use of it's turrets.
The nemesis needs more grid and the purifier could use something to make it stand out more like a big laser range bonus. Apart from that they're not unbalanced at all.
QTF
I fly the Manticore manily and can fly the Hound. The manticore is simply the best at burst damage when compared to the others, which doesn't make it the best all around bomber.
The manticore is also the hardest to fit, basicly requiring covert ops 5 and advanced weapon upgrades to do much of anything with the setup.
The problem is people thinking that three launchers makes it the best without considering the other balancing factors.
The dev's said the stealth bombers highslots would be "balanced"?
I want to see the link to that...
I really agree with Kyozoku's assement of the bombers, they are a lot closer in balance than many think.
--Victory needs no explanation, defeat allows none.-- |
Jaketh Ivanes
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Posted - 2006.02.13 14:56:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Aeaus
Developers have already said that all stealth bombers will have equal launcher high points soon.
NOOOO!!!  
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Captain Merkin
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Posted - 2006.02.13 15:39:00 -
[21]
I fly both hound and manticore but I have far more faith in the hound than the manticore.
Try fitting it a little differently, cruise launchers are great and do some sick damage but with the hound you can fit some decent stuff to really make a difference.
2 launchers, 2 autos or howies a web or two warp disruptor and your good to go.
Get in close, uncloak and open up.. works pretty well.. though make sure you choose your targets or you will get hurt!
Proving natural selection and Charles Darwin wrong since 1981.
The Kamikaze pilot
Maximum sig image dimensions are 400w x 120h & 24kb filesize. --Jorauk |
Testy Mctest
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Posted - 2006.02.13 15:47:00 -
[22]
Hound is equally the best stealth bomber along with Manticore.
Hound is faster and more agile.
Hound locks quicker = less time uncloaked.
Hound can fit its other slots.
Manticore loses a lowslot to fit 3 launchers, meaning it essentially has less slots.
The Purifier and whatever the Gallente one is called, though, lag behind.
The Eve Guild Wars Project! |
Dave Toz
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Posted - 2006.02.13 15:48:00 -
[23]
caldari has the best stealth bomber because missiles are a caldari speciality
just the same as
Galente have the best Drone ships/Carriers.
I dont see the problem tbh, this game goes down the pan when the races cant be distinguished by ship characteristics.
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tenp1
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Posted - 2006.02.13 18:48:00 -
[24]
I don't think giving the other 3 bombers an extra launcher would really take anything away from the manticore. To me 3 things make that so, tho the 3rd is more of a generalisation
1. The manticore gets a 25% damage bonus from caldari frig 5, the others need covert ops 5
2. The maticore would be the only one with the second grid reduction bonus for the launchers
3. With the exception of a some min pilots, caldari pilots are more likley to have better missile skills. Whereas pilots of the other races ships would probably be less inclined to put overly too much effort training missile skills for one or 2 ships.
Ok not the most impressive plus' but still advantages over the others.
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Elve Sorrow
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Posted - 2006.02.13 19:24:00 -
[25]
Tux = God
Contact 'The Enslaver' ingame for good prices on Cap Recharger IIs, Zealots, Vagabonds and several other Tech2 Items + HACs!
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Tido Maliyu
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Posted - 2006.02.13 19:35:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Tido Maliyu on 13/02/2006 19:35:30
What about using 15 days to train for it
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Draximus Cane: wheat barley kill anything? are you oats of your mind? I corn belive you just said that, rice I' |
Meat Wadd
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Posted - 2006.02.13 23:16:00 -
[27]
ok damn it! you dont see any *****ing about the crapy hauler the caldari have! Or how missiles got F-ed up to all get out. The only shine was the Caldari SB... So leave it alone and for once YOU can train another race ship or just deal with your inadequacies! 
Aqua Teen Hunger Force.
Number 1 in the Hood, G |
Meridius
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Posted - 2006.02.13 23:22:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Dave Toz
caldari has the best stealth bomber because missiles are a caldari speciality
just the same as
Galente have the best Drone ships/Carriers.
I dont see the problem tbh, this game goes down the pan when the races cant be distinguished by ship characteristics.
So where do Amarr get a class where they get the best ship hands down? What about Minmatar?
*****.
_
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WE get EVERRYYWHHHEERREEEE!!1 - Imaran
<Narcissus> I read Meridius is always correct on
Wikipedia |
Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2006.02.13 23:24:00 -
[29]
Minmatar have ceptors :P
Purifier is okay because it does EM. (hence firing first to kill shield, its hound friend follows up).
Nemesis? Sux (that's the name of the Gallente one, right?)
Digital Communist> The Jin-Mei are probably more profficient in training for Tofu and Noodles than Spaceship Command |
Sarmaul
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Posted - 2006.02.13 23:25:00 -
[30]
the hound can warp more than 10au before it drops out.
end of discussion.
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Sarmaul 4tw. 
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