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Temba Ronin
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
10
|
Posted - 2011.11.03 16:00:00 -
[1] - Quote
The goons have taken matters into their own hands to address bots mining ice in Gallente space but what about the rest of New Eden?
I would like to propose that the hacking skill be upgraded to "hijacking" to allow a pilot to eject a bot or afk pilot from any ship and send the now empty ship to a location somewhere in that same system as the property of the hijacking pilot. Giving him the opportunity to remove it from bot mining and sell it on the open market. Level 5 Hijacking skill would allow the ship to auto pilot thru gates to a destination set by the hijacker up to five gates.
The hijacking defense could be as simple as typing in the name of the pilot targeting your ship and the name of his corp before the hijack timer is successful something like 5 minutes. Additionally once successfully ejected the bot capsule would begin a 20 minute timer at the expiration of which it would become a legit target (Red) for any pilot with positive sec status with no penalty sec status hit for the extermination of a bot.
This way every human pilot can become a part of the solution to the bot problem and not just the goons. These are my thoughts as to an interactive multi-player way to address something that puts legit players at a market disadvantage when bots can mine non-stop 23/ 7 365.  |

akuro arishima
Dark Matter Systems
0
|
Posted - 2011.11.05 16:22:00 -
[2] - Quote
work it out a bit more please..
my ship is mining with me behind the computer.. have shields and drones out, and then the jehova's witness ring the doorbell......... |

Temba Ronin
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
15
|
Posted - 2011.11.05 17:00:00 -
[3] - Quote
akuro arishima wrote:work it out a bit more please..
my ship is mining with me behind the computer.. have shields and drones out, and then the jehova's witness ring the doorbell......... You got five minutes to either find God or lose your ship ..... what is your question? |

HELIC0N ONE
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
13
|
Posted - 2011.11.05 18:06:00 -
[4] - Quote
The net result of this would be, within a day or so of it being introduced, the various botting programs would have patches released to include and automate whatever hijacking counter-measures were implemented.
No bots would be affected, meanwhile the legitimate players who alt-tabbed away from their client or went for a shower while their freighter autopiloted to Jita would be the ones to lose out. You might think this is a good thing, and, hey, you might even be right, but in that case its a little silly to advertise this as an 'anti-bot' feature.
|

Temba Ronin
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
16
|
Posted - 2011.11.05 18:58:00 -
[5] - Quote
HELIC0N ONE wrote:The net result of this would be, within a day or so of it being introduced, the various botting programs would have patches released to include and automate whatever hijacking counter-measures were implemented.
No bots would be affected, meanwhile the legitimate players who alt-tabbed away from their client or went for a shower while their freighter autopiloted to Jita would be the ones to lose out. You might think this is a good thing, and, hey, you might even be right, but in that case its a little silly to advertise this as an 'anti-bot' feature.
Although i can not say i completely agree with your analysis that this would spawn an effective bot counter measure within a few days because i just don't view their programmers as the best in the business, sure eventually some of the more expensive bot programs might sell an improvement/ countermeasure but some would just fall by the wayside which would be a good outcome.
I think anybody who leaves any ship in autopilot while they take a shower needs to lose that ship by any means possible in the game IMO i do not understand afk pilots who want to play the game by not playing the game ... that is just my point of view.
|

Vigdis Thorisdottir
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
12
|
Posted - 2011.11.07 04:28:00 -
[6] - Quote
Instead of having them type the name or corp ticker of the hacker, have it display a Captcha image with the code to type in.
I like this idea. Incorporate some kind of audible warning though, for the semi-afk guys. |

Temba Ronin
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
17
|
Posted - 2011.11.07 04:35:00 -
[7] - Quote
Vigdis Thorisdottir wrote:Instead of having them type the name or corp ticker of the hacker, have it display a Captcha image with the code to type in.
I like this idea. Incorporate some kind of audible warning though, for the semi-afk guys. Both are good improvements to the idea thank you! |

Tasiv Deka
The Baseborn Syndicate
8
|
Posted - 2011.11.07 07:26:00 -
[8] - Quote
You do realize the amount of coding required would be insane and those resources would be better lent to just finding ways of integrating captchas into actual gameplay or better bot detection. and before you say oh no it wouldn't be hard to code i am actually in school for computer programming and have been self teaching myself various different coding languages for going on 6 years now, so i know more about coding than most people on these forums.
So while this seems like its good for anti botting its mostly just for you to make a quick buck off of the problem. Correction quick isk |

Lord Zim
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
64
|
Posted - 2011.11.07 07:48:00 -
[9] - Quote
Temba Ronin wrote:I would like to propose that the hacking skill be upgraded to "hijacking" to allow a pilot to eject a bot or afk pilot from any ship and send the now empty ship to a location somewhere in that same system as the property of the hijacking pilot. Giving him the opportunity to remove it from bot mining and sell it on the open market. Level 5 Hijacking skill would allow the ship to auto pilot thru gates to a destination set by the hijacker up to five gates.
The hijacking defense could be as simple as typing in the name of the pilot targeting your ship and the name of his corp before the hijack timer is successful something like 5 minutes. Additionally once successfully ejected the bot capsule would begin a 20 minute timer at the expiration of which it would become a legit target (Red) for any pilot with positive sec status with no penalty sec status hit for the extermination of a bot. I can just imagine how much griefing one could do with this. Sit on Jita undock, "hijack" everyone. For hours on end.
And you know that this "hijacking defense" would be a popup which blocks any and all input to the other parts of the client. It's CCP we're talking about here. |

Amaldor Themodius
Ascetic Virtues
4
|
Posted - 2011.11.07 08:04:00 -
[10] - Quote
I am sure somewhere there is an answer to removing bots from the game. Unfortunately OP you suggestion is a poor tool to resolve the problem. CCP must have the capablity to link bots to RMT to player transacting etc.. I guess it comes down to them giving a **** about the problem before action can be taken. |

JitaJane
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
14
|
Posted - 2011.11.08 10:55:00 -
[11] - Quote
Amaldor Themodius wrote:I am sure somewhere there is an answer to removing bots from the game. Unfortunately OP you suggestion is a poor tool to resolve the problem. CCP must have the capablity to link bots to RMT to player transacting etc.. I guess it comes down to them giving a **** about the problem before action can be taken. You are under the mistaken impression that the OP gives 2 shiites about bots..... |

Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
591
|
Posted - 2011.11.08 11:13:00 -
[12] - Quote
Purely technical solutions to social problems almost never work. |

Red Templar
Raging Ducks Goonswarm Federation
71
|
Posted - 2011.11.08 11:41:00 -
[13] - Quote
as an "anti-bot" solution, this feature suck.
But as a whole, its an interesting concept that i would love to see in game some day.
For example, you can catch a guy in space, you can kill him, but you cannot make him give away his ship. And take it as a trophy. That makes no sense to me.
If you tweak it, this could be a cool thing to implement to revive lowsec for example. As an example, to hijack a ship, you need following conditions: 1. Target is scrambled/disrupted. 2. Target shield/armor destroyed or lower than 10% and he is in structure. 3. His cap has to be kept below 10%. 4. His speed must be lower than 20m/s.
So you have to catch the guy, scramble him, use multiple webs on him, drain him of a cap. Then you initiate the hijack, which would be for example 2 minutes. During this time if one of the conditions will be disrupted, you have to start again. That would be pretty hard, and gives the target chance to call backup or kill/scare away one of his hijackers. But in the end, hijackers get a prize.
That would be pretty cool to catch people in low-sec with a small crew and take their ships as bounty.
But eve has plenty of other issues atm, that are more vital and much easier to implement. But the hijacking idea is cool indeed. For Love. For Peace. For Honor.
For None of the Above.
For Pony! |

Cellyss
New Trinity Scar
0
|
Posted - 2011.11.10 01:12:00 -
[14] - Quote
Red Templar wrote:as an "anti-bot" solution, this feature suck. But as a whole, its an interesting concept that i would love to see in game some day. For example, you can catch a guy in space, you can kill him, but you cannot make him give away his ship. And take it as a trophy. That makes no sense to me. If you tweak it, this could be a cool thing to implement to revive lowsec for example. As an example, to hijack a ship, you need following conditions: 1. Target is scrambled/disrupted. 2. Target shield/armor destroyed or lower than 10% and he is in structure. 3. His cap has to be kept below 10%. 4. His speed must be lower than 20m/s. So you have to catch the guy, scramble him, use multiple webs on him, drain him of a cap. Then you initiate the hijack, which would be for example 2 minutes. During this time if one of the conditions will be disrupted, you have to start again. That would be pretty hard, and gives the target chance to call backup or kill/scare away one of his hijackers. But in the end, hijackers get a prize. That would be pretty cool to catch people in low-sec with a small crew and take their ships as bounty. But eve has plenty of other issues atm, that are more vital and much easier to implement. But the hijacking idea is cool indeed. 
I love this idea. |

Temba Ronin
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
21
|
Posted - 2011.11.10 03:53:00 -
[15] - Quote
Cellyss wrote:Red Templar wrote:as an "anti-bot" solution, this feature suck. But as a whole, its an interesting concept that i would love to see in game some day. For example, you can catch a guy in space, you can kill him, but you cannot make him give away his ship. And take it as a trophy. That makes no sense to me. If you tweak it, this could be a cool thing to implement to revive lowsec for example. As an example, to hijack a ship, you need following conditions: 1. Target is scrambled/disrupted. 2. Target shield/armor destroyed or lower than 10% and he is in structure. 3. His cap has to be kept below 10%. 4. His speed must be lower than 20m/s. So you have to catch the guy, scramble him, use multiple webs on him, drain him of a cap. Then you initiate the hijack, which would be for example 2 minutes. During this time if one of the conditions will be disrupted, you have to start again. That would be pretty hard, and gives the target chance to call backup or kill/scare away one of his hijackers. But in the end, hijackers get a prize. That would be pretty cool to catch people in low-sec with a small crew and take their ships as bounty. But eve has plenty of other issues atm, that are more vital and much easier to implement. But the hijacking idea is cool indeed.  I love this idea. Thank you both for at least looking to see if the proposal had merit. Any an all improvements and modifications that can make something i propose more workable is readily accepted from my POV. I don't like the idea of bots being able to out mine humans so i want to get at them any legal way and taking their ships and podding them seemed a good first step. Overall I think "Hijacking" should have a place in the EVE universe and would appreciate all support to make that a reality from high sec to null. EVE is a dangerous place if you afk at a trading hub, gate, station, mining field, or POS you shouldn't really expect nothing to go terribly wrong imo.
|

Cellyss
New Trinity Scar
0
|
Posted - 2011.11.10 04:30:00 -
[16] - Quote
The idea of having the ability to hijack your enemy's ship seems very amusing. I know I would have a lot of fun doing this. Yes some can present counter arguments to Red Templar's example or to the idea in general. However you would have better odds at making things happen if you focus on the reasons why it would work. |

Red Templar
Raging Ducks Goonswarm Federation
76
|
Posted - 2011.11.10 07:37:00 -
[17] - Quote
The idea of hijacking a ship fits very well into the dark atmosphere of eve. It can add new taste to piracy and low-sec. There is many ways this idea or some form/part of it can be implemented. And hopefully someday it will. But i dont think it will be any time soon, CCP has too much on its plate as it is. For Love. For Peace. For Honor.
For None of the Above.
For Pony! |

Lord Zim
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
108
|
Posted - 2011.11.10 07:42:00 -
[18] - Quote
Red Templar wrote:as an "anti-bot" solution, this feature suck. But as a whole, its an interesting concept that i would love to see in game some day. For example, you can catch a guy in space, you can kill him, but you cannot make him give away his ship. And take it as a trophy. That makes no sense to me. If you tweak it, this could be a cool thing to implement to revive lowsec for example. As an example, to hijack a ship, you need following conditions: 1. Target is scrambled/disrupted. 2. Target shield/armor destroyed or lower than 10% and he is in structure. 3. His cap has to be kept below 10%. 4. His speed must be lower than 20m/s. So you have to catch the guy, scramble him, use multiple webs on him, drain him of a cap. Then you initiate the hijack, which would be for example 2 minutes. During this time if one of the conditions will be disrupted, you have to start again. That would be pretty hard, and gives the target chance to call backup or kill/scare away one of his hijackers. But in the end, hijackers get a prize. That would be pretty cool to catch people in low-sec with a small crew and take their ships as bounty. But eve has plenty of other issues atm, that are more vital and much easier to implement. But the hijacking idea is cool indeed.  See, this is a suggestion I can get behind, because it makes sense, and it isn't going to be something which can be used to grief in hisec. And if you get hijacked like this in lowsec/nullsec, well, sucks to be you. |

HELIC0N ONE
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
23
|
Posted - 2011.11.10 12:52:00 -
[19] - Quote
Ship hijacking would be awesome if it was a boarding action played out in Dust 514. |

Roid Hound Askold
Republic University Minmatar Republic
2
|
Posted - 2011.11.14 14:08:00 -
[20] - Quote
Temba Ronin wrote:The goons have taken matters into their own hands to address bots mining ice in Gallente space but what about the rest of New Eden? I would like to propose that the hacking skill be upgraded to "hijacking" to allow a pilot to eject a bot or afk pilot from any ship and send the now empty ship to a location somewhere in that same system as the property of the hijacking pilot. Giving him the opportunity to remove it from bot mining and sell it on the open market. Level 5 Hijacking skill would allow the ship to auto pilot thru gates to a destination set by the hijacker up to five gates. The hijacking defense could be as simple as typing in the name of the pilot targeting your ship and the name of his corp before the hijack timer is successful something like 5 minutes. Additionally once successfully ejected the bot capsule would begin a 20 minute timer at the expiration of which it would become a legit target (Red) for any pilot with positive sec status with no penalty sec status hit for the extermination of a bot. This way every human pilot can become a part of the solution to the bot problem and not just the goons. These are my thoughts as to an interactive multi-player way to address something that puts legit players at a market disadvantage when bots can mine non-stop 23/ 7 365. 
You are an idiot...I afk mine (different that botting you tard) and you expect me to type in some **** ....my lasers aren't on 100% of the time. How bout focusing on botting in nullsec...how do you think the drf gets all of their RMT isk? |

Krios Ahzek
Juvenis Iratus
128
|
Posted - 2011.11.14 16:50:00 -
[21] - Quote
HELIC0N ONE wrote:Ship hijacking would be awesome if it was a boarding action played out in Dust 514.
YES. Shoot a shuttle full of DUST jumpclones at a capital ship with its shield down; DUST players can jump inside and start playing a match againt the defense force. They could eventually make it to the capsule and assassinate the pilot, or offline modules through brute force.
I live, I post, I slay. I am content. |

Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
1131
|
Posted - 2011.11.14 17:13:00 -
[22] - Quote
HELIC0N ONE wrote:Ship hijacking would be awesome if it was a boarding action played out in Dust 514.
It would be a great gameplay possibility for Incarna, come to that Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |

Temba Ronin
24
|
Posted - 2011.11.15 01:50:00 -
[23] - Quote
Roid Hound Askold wrote:Temba Ronin wrote:The goons have taken matters into their own hands to address bots mining ice in Gallente space but what about the rest of New Eden? I would like to propose that the hacking skill be upgraded to "hijacking" to allow a pilot to eject a bot or afk pilot from any ship and send the now empty ship to a location somewhere in that same system as the property of the hijacking pilot. Giving him the opportunity to remove it from bot mining and sell it on the open market. Level 5 Hijacking skill would allow the ship to auto pilot thru gates to a destination set by the hijacker up to five gates. The hijacking defense could be as simple as typing in the name of the pilot targeting your ship and the name of his corp before the hijack timer is successful something like 5 minutes. Additionally once successfully ejected the bot capsule would begin a 20 minute timer at the expiration of which it would become a legit target (Red) for any pilot with positive sec status with no penalty sec status hit for the extermination of a bot. This way every human pilot can become a part of the solution to the bot problem and not just the goons. These are my thoughts as to an interactive multi-player way to address something that puts legit players at a market disadvantage when bots can mine non-stop 23/ 7 365.  You are an idiot...I afk mine (different that botting you tard) and you expect me to type in some **** ....my lasers aren't on 100% of the time. How bout focusing on botting in nullsec...how do you think the drf gets all of their RMT isk? Let me see if i got this correct "YOU AFK MINE" an i am the idiot & tard? Hahahahaha!
So i guess actually playing the game is not how you want to play the game. In my opinion your actions are not much better then the botters and should suffer the same fate, as in BOOM!
If i get ganked at least it will be by a human pilot that was actually paying attention and actively playing the game!
If you afk mine for long periods of time you should expect the worse. I have no qualms with you coming back to find your toon in a pod or in a newly hatched medical clone, News Flash! AFK mining is NOT safe anywhere in New Eden. |

Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation The Honda Accord
308
|
Posted - 2011.11.15 02:20:00 -
[24] - Quote
I was hoping your solution was to elect some BOTs to the CSM so they finally get the representation they deserve! I mean they are largely what drive the ecconomy!
Issler |

Temba Ronin
24
|
Posted - 2011.11.15 17:08:00 -
[25] - Quote
Issler Dainze wrote:I was hoping your solution was to elect some BOTs to the CSM so they finally get the representation they deserve! I mean they are largely what drive the ecconomy!
Issler How are those Goon bots on the current CSM working out for you? |

Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation The Honda Accord
317
|
Posted - 2011.11.15 23:33:00 -
[26] - Quote
Temba Ronin wrote:Issler Dainze wrote:I was hoping your solution was to elect some BOTs to the CSM so they finally get the representation they deserve! I mean they are largely what drive the ecconomy!
Issler How are those Goon bots on the current CSM working out for you?
Dooh!! You noticed!!
Issler |

SMT008
Les chevaliers de l'ordre Goonswarm Federation
215
|
Posted - 2011.11.17 12:38:00 -
[27] - Quote
Red Templar wrote:If you tweak it, this could be a cool thing to implement to revive lowsec for example. As an example, to hijack a ship, you need following conditions: 1. Target is scrambled/disrupted. 2. Target shield/armor destroyed or lower than 10% and he is in structure. 3. His cap has to be kept below 10%. 4. His speed must be lower than 20m/s. So you have to catch the guy, scramble him, use multiple webs on him, drain him of a cap. Then you initiate the hijack, which would be for example 2 minutes. During this time if one of the conditions will be disrupted, you have to start again. That would be pretty hard, and gives the target chance to call backup or kill/scare away one of his hijackers. But in the end, hijackers get a prize. That would be pretty cool to catch people in low-sec with a small crew and take their ships as bounty. But eve has plenty of other issues atm, that are more vital and much easier to implement. But the hijacking idea is cool indeed. 
/signed |

Kalicor Lightwind
Vigihan Scelus Sceleris.
7
|
Posted - 2011.11.18 00:36:00 -
[28] - Quote
Red Templar wrote:as an "anti-bot" solution, this feature suck. But as a whole, its an interesting concept that i would love to see in game some day. For example, you can catch a guy in space, you can kill him, but you cannot make him give away his ship. And take it as a trophy. That makes no sense to me. If you tweak it, this could be a cool thing to implement to revive lowsec for example. As an example, to hijack a ship, you need following conditions: 1. Target is scrambled/disrupted. 2. Target shield/armor destroyed or lower than 10% and he is in structure. 3. His cap has to be kept below 10%. 4. His speed must be lower than 20m/s. So you have to catch the guy, scramble him, use multiple webs on him, drain him of a cap. Then you initiate the hijack, which would be for example 2 minutes. During this time if one of the conditions will be disrupted, you have to start again. That would be pretty hard, and gives the target chance to call backup or kill/scare away one of his hijackers. But in the end, hijackers get a prize. That would be pretty cool to catch people in low-sec with a small crew and take their ships as bounty. But eve has plenty of other issues atm, that are more vital and much easier to implement. But the hijacking idea is cool indeed. 
I like it, but what about insurance? If the ship isn't destroyed and it still gives insurance... mmm
|

Hustomte
The Scope Gallente Federation
7
|
Posted - 2011.12.07 10:08:00 -
[29] - Quote
Red Templar wrote:as an "anti-bot" solution, this feature suck. But as a whole, its an interesting concept that i would love to see in game some day. For example, you can catch a guy in space, you can kill him, but you cannot make him give away his ship. And take it as a trophy. That makes no sense to me. If you tweak it, this could be a cool thing to implement to revive lowsec for example. As an example, to hijack a ship, you need following conditions: 1. Target is scrambled/disrupted. 2. Target shield/armor destroyed or lower than 10% and he is in structure. 3. His cap has to be kept below 10%. 4. His speed must be lower than 20m/s. So you have to catch the guy, scramble him, use multiple webs on him, drain him of a cap. Then you initiate the hijack, which would be for example 2 minutes. During this time if one of the conditions will be disrupted, you have to start again. That would be pretty hard, and gives the target chance to call backup or kill/scare away one of his hijackers. But in the end, hijackers get a prize. That would be pretty cool to catch people in low-sec with a small crew and take their ships as bounty. But eve has plenty of other issues atm, that are more vital and much easier to implement. But the hijacking idea is cool indeed. 
The issue I have with this is that you just self-destruct. Look at all the Supers just committing suicide right now instead of giving a killmail as a trophy?
Besides, EVE is a working-mans game. Being able to be semi-afk, go make snacks, put the kids to sleep, break up a fight, have a smoke, etc is WAY more important than plugging myself in and not being able to leave that chair (not even for a bio break) until I log. That is just messed up and unethical, I might as well be a slave to WOW and not have a life. What makes Eve great is that you can have a life with your wife and kids AND still play and get some kills, make stuff, mine, etc.
Hijacking is just not the solution to the botting problem. Beefing up the belt-ratts would probably be a better solution than using annoying captchas and keeping the griefers ruining everyones gameplay.
The Dalai lama once said: "Just because someone isn't on the same life-path as you, doesn't mean that they are lost". I would say playing games is the same. Just because they don't play how YOU like it, doesn't mean they are clueless or deserve to lose their ship. I agree that botting is a problem that needs fixing, but remember that some of us are married, have kids, and jobs. I wish I could live in my moms basement and play EVE 23.5/7 but I cant. Please respect that. :) MEANWHILE IN AFRICA +¬(GùŦ«¦«¦âGÇó¦â)¦¦ |

Lizden Kroff
Kroff Industry
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.10 02:16:00 -
[30] - Quote
hi!
I have seen this idea before about implementing a captha (the hijacking suggestion will lead to a captha in the defence mecanism that is mention in the op) to counter the bot problem. In my opinion, this will never work! I ice mine alot myself and if I frequently would be asked to fill in a captha field to prove that I am human, I would deffently stop ice mining. I think in general that most people also would be enoyed by such a feature, meaning that we would in the end actually see more of bot mining, because no sain person would enjoy mining anymore. If you put your mind to it, it would also be possible for the bot to counter the captha, so the feature would not really stop the bot mining as much as it would stop the real miners.
When I mine, I often watcha movie, or just do wathever at the same time, and that is not afk mining in the sence of what bot mining represent.
No matter how we look at it, bot mining aswell as other stuff like isk selling and so fort will always be a problem, but punishing the real players is not, in my opinion the way to sort this problem. I think a better way than the captha would be to allow ccp to be able to monitor the players more so that they can find people that use bots or other cheats that are not allowed in the game.
Regards Lizden |
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