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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 20 post(s) |
Admiral Rufus
Boris Johnson's Love Children
33
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Posted - 2013.11.08 20:41:00 -
[271] - Quote
This is a bloody terrible idea, 40seconds reload time?! Ohtge target is tanked towards my loaded damage type, no matter I'll just wait 40 ******* seconds to change it. Oh I'm dead |
Sebastien LeReparteur
SpaceTravelers Freelance Corp La Division Bleue
10
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Posted - 2013.11.08 20:42:00 -
[272] - Quote
pretty good, a caracal won't be able to eat though a dozen frigs like this, one or two then the table turns on it.
Nice I love this approach! |
Narwz
Zerglingz United
8
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Posted - 2013.11.08 20:51:00 -
[273] - Quote
So many words to describe a way to just butcher Caracal and Cerb in small gang pvp. Oh well. |
Miks Rebelius
Griffin Capsuleers Ad-Astra
6
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Posted - 2013.11.08 20:52:00 -
[274] - Quote
What if I use PLEX to make them reload faster? Everybody wins right? |
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
758
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Posted - 2013.11.08 20:54:00 -
[275] - Quote
Octavian Madullier wrote:Mara Rinn wrote:Awesome change. Provides the ability for a battleship to screen a fleet against interceptors, though you have to overcome the extremely long lock time of a battleship. People will need to get on Singularity and fly fleets of frigates, cruisers and battlecruisers against their navy ravens with RHMLs in order to understand the difference between a burst of 1000DPS against an interceptor with RHMLs versus sustained 1000DPS with cruise missiles against the same target. CCP Rise, what about the possibility of reducing the reload time and reducing the firing rate, and shifting the high-DPS mode of this weapon system to overloading? This means the pilot has the option of:
- firing for, say, 70 seconds until the RHML burns out
- firing in bursts and applying paste to prepare for the next burst, or
- firing a sustained stream of missiles at far lower DPS without heat.
Just move the DPS bonus and "40 second reload timer" to the overheat mechanics of this weapon system. And then provide some means for battleships to lock frigates in reasonable amounts of time so the front-loaded DPS can actually be applied. The "screen" ability would especially be enhanced with a special targeting system, similar to a passive targeting system, which allows any ship to "save up" a triple-speed target lock. This targeting assistance module would be exclusive to sensor boosters, sensor amplifiers or sensor links, with a penalty of one-third target locking speed while recharging. So interceptor arrives, tries to light cyno. You (the pilot of the fighter-screen battleship) use the targeting assistance module to lock the interceptor, and you overheat the RHMLs to bring the interceptor down. Once the interceptor is dead you are now "down for the count" while repairing your launchers and recharging the targeting assistance module. as someone who loves using missiles ... that is a VERY good idea and use of the RHML on the screeninng battleship ... CCP RIse ... please consider this ...
It doesnt work because hmls hit interceptors for next to no damage.
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Morrigan LeSante
The Lost and Forgotten Troopers
451
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Posted - 2013.11.08 20:58:00 -
[276] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:Octavian Madullier wrote:Morrigan LeSante wrote:Fires for 50s, reloads for 40.
I surely can't be the first person to think two weapon groups allowing for either constant, sustained damage yet with the option of massive spike application. LOL ... no you are not ... its the obvious way to use them ...and u have different missile types in each group thus avoided having only kinetic loaded when facing Caldari ... While there are a few situations that this is a good plan, this is also similar to "ungrouping" your artillery weapons. More often than not, you want to put as much damage on your target as quickly as possible.
Yes but you have the option, you have the choice.
I'm more interested to know what hull bonuses apply and what their thoughts around reloads/ammo type are.
These feel a bit too niche to me, they'll be excellent ambush/camp/gank weapons but beyond that....questionable. |
Zvaarian the Red
Evil Leprechaun Brigade Space Wolves Alliance
3
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Posted - 2013.11.08 21:07:00 -
[277] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Gizznitt Malikite wrote:Octavian Madullier wrote:Morrigan LeSante wrote:Fires for 50s, reloads for 40.
I surely can't be the first person to think two weapon groups allowing for either constant, sustained damage yet with the option of massive spike application. LOL ... no you are not ... its the obvious way to use them ...and u have different missile types in each group thus avoided having only kinetic loaded when facing Caldari ... While there are a few situations that this is a good plan, this is also similar to "ungrouping" your artillery weapons. More often than not, you want to put as much damage on your target as quickly as possible. That's exactly what makes this an effective buff, at least for PvP.
This isn't a buff. |
CptBipto
Super Moose Defence Force
1
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Posted - 2013.11.08 21:07:00 -
[278] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Hi!
As you guys know, we're introducing Rapid Heavy Missile Launchers in Rubicon for battleships that will echo the Rapid Light Launchers in design. Well, now that the current design has been out and available for discussion for awhile, we've taken on a lot of feedback and we don't feel completely satisfied with them.
The problem we're facing is that it's very hard to create a good balance between rapid launchers and their on-size counterparts(torpedo launchers, cruise launchers, heavy missile launchers and heavy assault missile launchers). Currently I feel we have the numbers high enough that they are almost always the right choice, but if we tune them down at all they will almost never be the right choice. We would much rather that the decision to use rapid launchers depended heavily on context and that you would choose them not because they were generally better than their competition but because your specific situation called for them.
Here's the plan to improve the situation:
Rapid Launchers (both Light and Heavy) will be changed to have a much higher damage per second number, roughly on par with Heavy Assault Launchers and Torpedo Launchers respectively, but their ammo capacity will be reduced and their reload time will be increased increased (think Ancilliary Shield Boosters). Some specifics:
Rapid Light Missile Launcher rate of fire set to: Rapid Light Missile Launcher I ------------------------- 7.8s Rapid Light Missile Launcher II ------------------------- 6.24s Prototype 'Arbalest' Rapid Light Missile Launcher --- 6.24s Other meta types not shown
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher rate of fire set to: Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher I ------------------------ 6.48s Rapid Heavy Missile launcher II ------------------------- 5.185s 'Arbalest' Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher I ------------ 5.185s Other meta types not shown
Reload time for both groups set to 40 seconds.
T2 Rapid Light Launchers can carry roughly 18 charges T2 Rapid Heavy Launchers can carry roughly 23 charges
This translates to a Raven with 3x BCU, T2 Rapid Heavy Launchers and Scourge Fury missiles doing 926 dps This translates to a Caracal with 3x BCU, T2 Rapid Light Launchers and Scourge Fury missiles doing 409 dps
Both ships would have around 50 seconds of up time followed by 40 seconds of reload meaning that over extended engagements their true dps would be a bit more than half of the dps number above.
This would provide new strategic gameplay for Rapid Missile users as well as their opponents. It would make these systems stronger against ships that can be killed inside the active window(smaller ships) but worse over longer fights, which would usually mean fights against ships in the same class or larger. It would generally be more interesting but would also leave more space for the main missile systems to thrive as well.
Let me know what you think and keep in mind that numbers may be adjusted slightly as we continue to test. Thanks
Rapid lights should get about 30 rounds to its payload and a 15 - 20 second reload, 40 seconds is far to long with for what you are trying to do. i see where you are going with the whole specific fit for the specific situation.
I don't ever see me using rapid heavy's for a long time so i'm not going to talk about it.
I don't see this being used "noob tear blob fest space", so it is a bit refreshing to see empire space get some new combat tactics.
I can see this working if you don't listen to the guy who convinced ccp to implement nurf guns to the Caldari arsenal, instead of just shaving off the excess of the rapid lights that made it over the top |
Kane Fenris
NWP
114
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Posted - 2013.11.08 21:09:00 -
[279] - Quote
Michael Harari wrote:Edit 2: Here is a screenshot of my stiletto tanking about 20 drakes off my passive shield regen. http://i.imgur.com/m8Aw9.jpgThey were probably all shooting fury at me, which means 8000 eft missile dps translated to maybe 20 real dps.
20 drakes without even 1 TP they deserved it...
eve uni blob? |
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
562
|
Posted - 2013.11.08 21:10:00 -
[280] - Quote
Jesus fcking christ. This is a terrible idea.
1) 40 seconds to change damage types. No, just no. 2) 40 seconds to change from Fury to Faction or to Precision. ****, might as well not have precision anymore. 3) After I blow my load, I have to be quasi-jammed for 40 seconds. Refractory periods suck, man. |
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Michael Harari
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
759
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Posted - 2013.11.08 21:12:00 -
[281] - Quote
Kane Fenris wrote:Michael Harari wrote:Edit 2: Here is a screenshot of my stiletto tanking about 20 drakes off my passive shield regen. http://i.imgur.com/m8Aw9.jpgThey were probably all shooting fury at me, which means 8000 eft missile dps translated to maybe 20 real dps. 20 drakes without even 1 TP they deserved it... eve uni blob?
They had multiple tps. Most of the missiles didnt even hit. This was a provi sov fleet engaged in the defense of g-5. Full BR is at http://failheap-challenge.com/showthread.php?113-Providence&p=553615&viewfull=1#post553615
Edit: This was also pre HML nerf |
Omega Crendraven
FW Scuad E C L I P S E
86
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Posted - 2013.11.08 21:18:00 -
[282] - Quote
don't nerf pl0x!!! RLML not OP, our weapon of mass destruction against evil blobs of enemy tacklers! |
Major Killz
Deep Core Mining Inc.
270
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Posted - 2013.11.08 21:18:00 -
[283] - Quote
I laughed when a bro linked this thread to me at work. I suppose those who want rapid light missile launchers NERFED have won v0v
This may hurt solo pilots but in fleets less so. This will also be a BOOST to frigates that use TD's OFC and a general Caldari NERF. There was no need for these changes but v0v |
Milton Middleson
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
377
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Posted - 2013.11.08 21:19:00 -
[284] - Quote
I think this is conceptually interesting, since it adds a new dimension to weapon characteristics (high dps, low endurance) that makes them good for hit and run tactics but poor for sustained engagements, and I'd like to see it implemented somewhere.
I'm not sure what I think of it here, since I don't think it actually resolves the issues with RLMLs, which that RLML cruisers can achieve superb damage application vs frigates, acceptable damage application vs other cruisers, and still retain a massive tank and long range for their weight class. |
Kane Fenris
NWP
114
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Posted - 2013.11.08 21:23:00 -
[285] - Quote
i dont see tp applied to you though... |
Omega Crendraven
FW Scuad E C L I P S E
86
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Posted - 2013.11.08 21:30:00 -
[286] - Quote
Actually, I came out with a good idea. Why don't you let us choose between 2 types of light missile ammo. The normal light missiles, and the Rapid fire Light missiles. For example, in the first 40 seconds of the fight when you need to burn away and get rid of tacklers or an enemy fleet is warping and you are finishing a tanky ship, everybody could switch to these new missiles for extra-dps in a short period of time, just like when you can choose to overheat or not. |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1459
|
Posted - 2013.11.08 21:30:00 -
[287] - Quote
this thread is missing some tinfoil hattery... where is dinsdale and his claims taht this will ruin high sec mission runners and is only a boost to the large donuts. |
jackncoke
Aliastra Gallente Federation
72
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Posted - 2013.11.08 21:36:00 -
[288] - Quote
Basicly - you cant fit that on a BS and fleet up.
BS is used in large fleet engagements. And those tend to take a while. Having a fleet of missile users simply run out of ammo for 49 seconds means one dead fleet.
So you simply wont take missile users because they are once again useless.
So you have a cruiser.
That is capable of DPS-ing for 50 seconds and then you wish you took regular heavy missiles. Because if your targets are not dead in 50 seconds - you sure will be.
It seems like missile users can be usefull in PVP once again. But not really. They can be nice for gate camps where you gant small number of targets, but that about it. For any kind of escalation, roam or extended engagement you will take turret users. Because they are so much more usefull on the field.
And if a missile users raises his hand - show him T2 turret prerequisits and tell him to get cracking ! |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
666
|
Posted - 2013.11.08 21:49:00 -
[289] - Quote
Joan Greywind wrote:So why don't you just ungroup your weapons and shoot half of them while the other half reloads, you will still have the same sustained dps as you had before the change. Now you have to option to burst someone before his friends arrive, or break his active tank. I mean it still has the same stats over a long period of time, just use your imagination a little and this could add some very nice options. Now at least you are able to kill those ****** active tanked hawks.
Also adding some flavor to weapons is what is need, not just playing around with their damage and damage projection. A new mechanic always adds good play, like for instance the ASB.
NO You will NOT!! The ammount of damage you can do over long time was REDUCED!!!! |
Antillie Sa'Kan
Forging Industries Silent Infinity
162
|
Posted - 2013.11.08 21:49:00 -
[290] - Quote
jackncoke wrote:And if a missile users raises his hand - show him T2 turret prerequisits and tell him to get cracking ! Except that these prerequisites are dropping pretty massively in Rubicon. So, turrets for everyone! Rapid missile launchers for niche uses only! |
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Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
666
|
Posted - 2013.11.08 21:51:00 -
[291] - Quote
AskariRising wrote:409 dps wont be able to kill a dual MASB hawk... or will it?
probably not... unles syou web and paint it.
ships usign thte new rapid lights are useles agaisnt anythign but t1 frigates and destoryers |
XvXTeacherVxV
S.E.N.T.I.N.E.L.
43
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Posted - 2013.11.08 21:51:00 -
[292] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:XvXTeacherVxV wrote:CCP Rise wrote: Both ships would have around 50 seconds of up time followed by 40 seconds of reload meaning that over extended engagements their true dps would be a bit more than half of the dps number above.
Less up time, less reload time would be better. Cut both by 50-75%. Then you'd have small clips that you could burn through in less than 20 seconds and you'd avoid the no fun zone that is long reload times since it'd be about 10-15 seconds. Advantages - Reload time is still long enough to be a disadvantage but not so long it's unbearable. - You could even take the opportunity to switch damage types which adds more room for good players to maximize their damage. - Overall DPS would be about the same and the frontloaded DPS wouldn't be so extreme. Win/Win/WIn. For this to be appropriately balanced, the "high dps window" needs to be long enough to bring down a typical target. Then the reload window needs to be long enough to make it un-ideal when sustained dps is important. I think your 20s attack, 10-15s reload is too short on both accounts, and the 50s attack, 40s relaod is just about ideal.
And I think 40s is way too long to twiddle my thumbs DURING a fight. But what makes you say that the typical target has to die in one window and what's a typical target anyway? |
Phoenix Jones
Shockwave Innovations Surely You're Joking
247
|
Posted - 2013.11.08 21:54:00 -
[293] - Quote
Both interesting and bizarre, you've turned this into the 50 second combat mode for ships that fit the module.
You kill the person in 50 seconds, or you die.
I get the concept, I'm not sure it is a good one though.
You are basically increasing damage from these missile types by about 50%. I should say you are increasing the potential damage by that amount. Its......
Odd move. Might give a niche job to a set of missile launchers that kind of got a little lost with the rest of the missiles ingame. |
Kat Ayclism
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
90
|
Posted - 2013.11.08 21:55:00 -
[294] - Quote
MeBiatch wrote:this thread is missing some tinfoil hattery... where is dinsdale and his claims taht this will ruin high sec mission runners and is only a boost to the large donuts. You already had the tinfoil with your mouthbreathing thought that the only reason anyone from PL would dislike this is because of RHML ravens (lol like heavies can hit for ****) |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
667
|
Posted - 2013.11.08 21:57:00 -
[295] - Quote
Lloyd Roses wrote:Motoko Innocentius wrote:Kagura Nikon wrote:
FORGET THE DPS!! How much TOTAL damage can you do before reload? It will be less than EHP of a cruiser!! That is the issue.
Even if you have 20 THOSUAND dps, but you fire for 1 second and reload for 20k seconds.. you will NEVER kill a well fit enemy cruiser.. in fact this last example is the worse situation you could have basically
Will a cruiser die to the 23k dmg done by the rlml's of atm in 90 seconds ? If it won't , you have no point, have you got no brain dude? You can continuously do dps in the new model as easily as you can in the current model. When your first group of launchers are empty and start reloading you are using another group of launchers, and when group 2 is empty group 1 has already reloaded!. This means you are doing dps all the time, there is no stop in damage application. You can always shoot. Funny point imo: No cruiser that flies solo will have a flat 20k ehp. They are either AAR+800 plate, AAR+MAR, LSE-tanked, single XL-ASB(moa) or buffergank without real damage or HP. Aside from the scenario against a pure buffer fit, peaking at a higher dps-output is always better - being able to apply the same amount of damage in half the time is all but a drawback, even if you got to reload for 40secs (which is nothing compared to the advantages given) Or else, the average T1 cruiser with exile (guessing that if solo, you'd either do a nanofit or something ancillary armor) tanks less than 300/500 dps/sec, so unlike before you can now even overcome his active tanking and let him bleed structure already while his reps are still 100% up, so he'll bleed structure once and maybe survive - but certainly die during his second reload. Atm any active armorcruiser can tank a single caracal NP. Cannot see how this is anything but a huge buff to rapids.
Just wow at this fail level. The ASB is basicallya buffer module (sicne it cannto be run forever) you must take its total HP buff on a full cahrge load and caount that as a large extender . It works exaclty as taht as long as the incommign dps is not much larger than the repair rate. ANd It wil NOT BE in a SOLO fight. Remember you wilL NOT be sishign full dps and the guy wil overheat his ASB.
A simple assault frigate can have 20 HP,,
any SHIELD rupture has more than 20 EHP. An armor fit will ahve even more, a maller can possibly hold 2 of these caracals loads!!!
Even my normal sttaber fit has more than that EHP!
You must be blind to not see how this is horrible for solo fights (And rapid laucnhers were the best weapons for cruiser solo activity)
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Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
667
|
Posted - 2013.11.08 21:59:00 -
[296] - Quote
Phoenix Jones wrote:Both interesting and bizarre, you've turned this into the 50 second combat mode for ships that fit the module.
You kill the person in 50 seconds, or you die.
I get the concept, I'm not sure it is a good one though.
You are basically increasing damage from these missile types by about 50%. I should say you are increasing the potential damage by that amount. Its......
Odd move. Might give a niche job to a set of missile launchers that kind of got a little lost with the rest of the missiles ingame.
Considering that the other guy will be overheatign an ASB for those 50 seconds and at end he wil have a burned shield module..... whiel you wil have a ooops moment where you are defenseles against him. |
Saturn Asanari
Cause For Concern
0
|
Posted - 2013.11.08 22:01:00 -
[297] - Quote
Clean up the missile system first, THEN clean up the items.
I can't even tell which skills affect which launcher types because of the templating you guys use in your skill descriptions...
Do skills that affect Missile Launchers affect Rocket, Torpedo, or Cruise Launchers? Do skills that affect Rocket Launchers affect Missiles?
****. |
Major Killz
Deep Core Mining Inc.
270
|
Posted - 2013.11.08 22:03:00 -
[298] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:AskariRising wrote:409 dps wont be able to kill a dual MASB hawk... or will it? probably not... unles syou web and paint it. ships usign thte new rapid lights are useles agaisnt anythign but t1 frigates and destoryers
Correction.
All frigates and destroyers but also those Single AAR Omen Navy set-ups (can destroy one without reload in a Cerberus now), some shield T1 cruisers and shield attack battle-cruisers.
Those who use gang links can ofc wait for the 40 sec reload on grid if they choose, but yeah. This change will make them more of a hit and run solo instead of sustained damage platform and in fleets this change will help end things quickly. I dunno, personally i feel fleets of these will be a plague. They kinda are already anyway but worse. |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
667
|
Posted - 2013.11.08 22:05:00 -
[299] - Quote
For the ones that did not try the math:
Rise quote:
" This translates to a Caracal with 3x BCU, T2 Rapid Light Launchers and Scourge Fury missiles doing 409 dps
Both ships would have around 50 seconds of up time followed by 40 seconds of reload meaning that over extended ngagements their true dps would be a bit more than half of the dps number above. "
That means an effective DPS against anything other than a fight agaisnt a SINGLE frigate enemy will be 205 dps
CUrrent Rapid missiles in TQ give the same caracal 306 DPS
So its a 33% NERF to dps on a real fight! |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
667
|
Posted - 2013.11.08 22:06:00 -
[300] - Quote
Major Killz wrote:Kagura Nikon wrote:AskariRising wrote:409 dps wont be able to kill a dual MASB hawk... or will it? probably not... unles syou web and paint it. ships usign thte new rapid lights are useles agaisnt anythign but t1 frigates and destoryers Correction. All frigates and destroyers but also those Single AAR Omen Navy set-ups (can destroy one without reload in a Cerberus now), some shield T1 cruisers and shield attack battle-cruisers. Those who use gang links can ofc wait for the 40 sec reload on grid if they choose, but yeah. This change will make them more of a hit and run solo instead of sustained damage platform and in fleets this change will help end things quickly. I dunno, personally i feel fleets of these will be a plague. They kinda are already anyway but worse.
Yes they willbe helish in fleets of 5 or more. But made the best solo weapon system for cruisers.. a JOKE on solo work |
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