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Laythun
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Posted - 2006.02.17 13:24:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Laythun on 17/02/2006 13:28:23
Curse
Amarr Cruiser Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to Tracking Disruptor
effectiveness and 10% bonus to drone hit points and
damage per level.
Recon Ships Skill Bonus: 40% bonus to Energy Vampire
and Energy Neutralizer range and 20% bonus to Energy
Vampire and Energy Neutralizer transfer amount per level
medium or light drones / jamming / tracking disrupting / medium tanking
Nossing @ recon ships 4, with 5 diminishing nos = 356 per 6sec cycle.
Ishtar
Gallente Cruiser Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to Medium Hybrid
Turret damage and 10% bonus to drone hitpoints and
damage per skill level.
Heavy Assault Ship Skill Bonus: +5 km bonus to Scout and
Heavy Drone operation range and +50 m3 extra Drone Bay
space per level
drones / jamming / tanking
blaster / nos setup.
Now i dont know all setups for ishtar so some help on this would be appreciated.
Discuss.
Sig Nerfer-Capsicum |
twit brent
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Posted - 2006.02.17 13:26:00 -
[2]
It realy does depend on setups and everything.
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Laythun
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Posted - 2006.02.17 13:29:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: twit brent
It realy does depend on setups and everything.
come on. this is the weekend discussion. your view is to broad. EVERYTHING depends on something, but we can still discuss it.
Sig Nerfer-Capsicum |
Nadec Ascand
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Posted - 2006.02.17 13:31:00 -
[4]
/me set range as 60km with his ishtar
and wtf pown the curse....
All matter of distance and fit thats my guess
OMG our war have been hijack -eris
What 0_o LMAO Nadec 4TW - Vanamonde
Here start a new WAR => X - Wrangler
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Laythun
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Posted - 2006.02.17 13:33:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Laythun on 17/02/2006 13:33:55
Originally by: Nadec Ascand
/me set range as 60km with his ishtar
and wtf pown the curse....
All matter of distance and fit thats my guess
How?
Sig Nerfer-Capsicum |
J Dubbs
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Posted - 2006.02.17 13:34:00 -
[6]
well ishtar would be using heavy drones would probably chew the curse up quite fast.
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twit brent
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Posted - 2006.02.17 13:35:00 -
[7]
Well the main issue here is CAP. Most ishtars are heavily dependent on nos for running their tank. If the ishtar pilot is smart he can ttime his nos correctly with his reps and might still be able to tank a bit while doing heavier damage with its drones. Also a plated ishtar with a nos or 2 might be able to hold off long enough for its stronger drones to break the curses tank. If the ishtar has any ECM that could also work in it favour. Because of the ishtar large drone bay some ishtar pilots also field a group of heavy ECM drones which the ishtar pilot may use if he feels he is loosing.
These reasons and many other is why u cant just say a curse pilot can beat an ishtar pilot because there are just so many ways the battle could go and there is no way of guarenteeing victory.
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twit brent
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Posted - 2006.02.17 13:37:00 -
[8]
also remember that the curse cannot hold as many drones as the ishtar and if the ishtar pilot manages to tank a few out with his own drones or something they might be hard to replace.
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Laythun
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Posted - 2006.02.17 13:40:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Laythun on 17/02/2006 13:40:22
Originally by: twit brent
Well the main issue here is CAP. Most ishtars are heavily dependent on nos for running their tank. If the ishtar pilot is smart he can ttime his nos correctly with his reps and might still be able to tank a bit while doing heavier damage with its drones.
.
ok. your supposing that the plated ishtar with heavy nos can get in range?
curse nos range up to 33+km
ishtar up to 12km
also im not up on heavy drone dmg on cruisers, so my knowledge there is a bit hazy but i thought meds do better dmg to cruisers than heavies?
Sig Nerfer-Capsicum |
Nadec Ascand
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Posted - 2006.02.17 13:45:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Nadec Ascand on 17/02/2006 13:46:20
Originally by: Laythun
Edited by: Laythun on 17/02/2006 13:33:55
Originally by: Nadec Ascand
/me set range as 60km with his ishtar
and wtf pown the curse....
All matter of distance and fit thats my guess
How?
low u fit 1 1600 2/3 passiv hardener to cover the worst tank 2/1 cap relay
med Sensor booster 2 2Ecm OR 2 damper + 1 cpa rec + 1 ab 2
high 3 turet 2 nos (or something to imporve drone attack)
WArp at 15km with Booster active target the curse ecm launch drone nos + turret
Warp to 60km with booster active Target the curse damp it launch drones fire with the 3 turret
You can use various kind of drones coming from ECM one to scramble or even nos one + dmg
The first thing of ishtar is the second bonus u can launch drone from far away than other ship + ecm capacity = destructive ship
add that even if ishtar is jammed drone act lonely...
Hum with good skill (im a bit less than 4m sp on drones) u can get 350dps from 5 drones...
OMG our war have been hijack -eris
What 0_o LMAO Nadec 4TW - Vanamonde
Here start a new WAR => X - Wrangler
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twit brent
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Posted - 2006.02.17 13:46:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Laythun
Edited by: Laythun on 17/02/2006 13:40:22
Originally by: twit brent
Well the main issue here is CAP. Most ishtars are heavily dependent on nos for running their tank. If the ishtar pilot is smart he can ttime his nos correctly with his reps and might still be able to tank a bit while doing heavier damage with its drones.
.
ok. your supposing that the plated ishtar with heavy nos can get in range?
curse nos range up to 33+km
ishtar up to 12km
also im not up on heavy drone dmg on cruisers, so my knowledge there is a bit hazy but i thought meds do better dmg to cruisers than heavies?
Well it depends on where the fights start. a group of ogre II's will eat a cruiser very fast and yes definatley do more dmg than meds. Yor biggest worry would be your own drones surviving. It would take a while for 5 med drones to chew through an ishtar (expecially a plated one) and i dont think the drones would live that long if the ishtar pilot targeted them.
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Woopie
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Posted - 2006.02.17 13:46:00 -
[12]
Armor tanked Curse will die suprisingly fast to a swarm of ogres II. The poor resist and the high dot of the drones will totally neglect any regeneration. Curse will be closing structure when the med drones have finished the Ishtars shields. The fact that Ishtar can not repair wont change anything, esp if it's plated.
Ofc that is with the more "standard" adaptive (dual or single rep) armor tanking Curse setup, as soon as it start using active thermal hardeners,plates,shield tank the tide starts turning.
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Grimwalius d'Antan
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Posted - 2006.02.17 13:49:00 -
[13]
Poor Laythun, everyone disapproves of his Curse.
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Nadec Ascand
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Posted - 2006.02.17 13:51:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Grimwalius d'Antan
Poor Laythun, everyone disapproves of his Curse.
Its not like disaprove
i dont like the 1 ship vs another rocks.
Its all a mater of strategy and fit.
I allready killed a ferox on my harpy. Who do u think would bet on that!
OMG our war have been hijack -eris
What 0_o LMAO Nadec 4TW - Vanamonde
Here start a new WAR => X - Wrangler
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Romulus Maximus
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Posted - 2006.02.17 13:55:00 -
[15]
A Curse would prob lose. Even without cap, an Ishtar can do insane amounts of dmg. You will not tank it.
You also will not kill the Ihstar before it kills u i think. even if it has no cap.
Ofc, IF u jam,IF u get blown that morning, IF he didnt have his weetabix etc. Anythings possible.
But as a Curse pilot, i would say Ishtar will give u more than a run for ur money.
Current RKK Ranking: (AMM11) Rear Admiral
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Hllaxiu
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Posted - 2006.02.17 15:10:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Laythun
Edited by: Laythun on 17/02/2006 13:33:55
Originally by: Nadec Ascand
/me set range as 60km with his ishtar
and wtf pown the curse....
All matter of distance and fit thats my guess
How?
Sentry drones. 
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Agent2 Holtze
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Posted - 2006.02.17 15:35:00 -
[17]
depends on setup really. but i wouldn't engage on in mine, because any good ishtar pilot would take out my drones and even if i took some of his out he would still have more drones than I, and afaik nossing him won't kill him =) or else i would be screing ishtars over all the time =).
"We are twice armed if we fight with faith." Plato
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Fogy
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Posted - 2006.02.17 16:51:00 -
[18]
personaly i think the ishtar is a more flexible shipp..
fighting a curse, you know your gona get nosed, tracking disrupted etc..
with a ishtar, you dont know if your gona get nosed, shot at from range, jammed, tore apart from blasters, or what ever..
ishtars main dmg is it drones, but with the new drones, he might just aswell use nos drones, jamm you and use blasters on you.. an ishtar can change that loud out as he wish, use jammers in mid, or jammer drones, blasters, rails, nos, and so on..
my prersonal view anyhow.
a curse might be better if the fight starts at range, but then again, a ishtar has a biger drone bay to choos from, while the curse is reducet to fitt 5 med's and 5 small drones, or 15 small drones..
wich wont kill a ishtar b5 its setts of heavy, and medium drones has tore through you.
Cheers!
Fogy
take it as you like.
"From my rotting boddy flowers shall grow and I am in them, and that is eternity"
♥RUBRA♥
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Dash Ripcock
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Posted - 2006.02.17 17:14:00 -
[19]
As the Curse pilot the first thing you do is kill the drones, or at least put your ECM on them to make them less effective. The Ishtar itself won't be able to hold its capacitor for long so you can take that out of the game then pin it down if you're using a webifier. Concentrate all of your offence and ECM at the drones and hopefully they'll die before he realises what's going on. Then you can take him apart at your leisure.
It would be a close fight though, especially against a plated Ishtar. She'd be able to ride out on no capacitor for some time, so you must take away his offence in drones. If he's a bad pilot you stand a good chance, if he's a good pilot it'll be a tough fight. Concerning ECM, the Curse has a 28 base sensor strength. Even if you have two Multispecs on your Ishtar you'll only jam the Curse a fraction of the time, and before long you won't have the cap anyway.
The Firing Range |
Parallax Error
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Posted - 2006.02.17 17:19:00 -
[20]
The Ishtar should win that fight fairly easily for the reasons already pointed out. It turns into a dps race between 5 medium drones and 5 heavy drones, only way the Curse stands a chance is if it is packing plates and the Ishtar isn't.
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Miabio
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Posted - 2006.02.17 17:44:00 -
[21]
I see this as an apple ot orange comparison. The Curse is a superior fleet ship, the Ishtar seems to be less dependant on a fleet to cover the weak points. Different classes, different functions. . .but ya, the Curse would start the fight seeded to lose. She likes ships that are cap dependant and use turrets. The Ishtar is neither of these - so - basically the worst enemy for a Curse.
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Laythun
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Posted - 2006.02.17 17:49:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Miabio
I see this as an apple ot orange comparison. The Curse is a superior fleet ship, the Ishtar seems to be less dependant on a fleet to cover the weak points. Different classes, different functions. . .but ya, the Curse would start the fight seeded to lose. She likes ships that are cap dependant and use turrets. The Ishtar is neither of these - so - basically the worst enemy for a Curse.
its already been stated numerous times that the ishtar is a cap ship. tell me how you tank and jam with no cap?
anyway, im intrigued with all the replies, i hav,nt had a chance to use heavy t2 drones against a cruiser, i was under the (misguided) impression that they dont do as much dmg to cruisers as they used to on account of ****e tracking etc.
Sig Nerfer-Capsicum |
Nadec Ascand
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Posted - 2006.02.17 18:39:00 -
[23]
for trying only 5 med drone ona cruiser with only 2m skill (drone int only 4 im 1,5m away now)
on an osprey (corpmate was juste joking) i sent my mega drones (5 hobgoblin) i did torn appart his shield in less tahn 5 second... lets say 6 for calculate
it was only 5 med... and with 1200 shield ... it come to 200 dps...
OMG our war have been hijack -eris
What 0_o LMAO Nadec 4TW - Vanamonde
Here start a new WAR => X - Wrangler
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Valea Silpha
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Posted - 2006.02.17 18:54:00 -
[24]
My bet is on the tar all the way. Curse is a tasty ship indeed, but its just not built for out and out fighting.
Yes the curse has a lot of nos potential. Yes it can do some nasty damage with drones. The thing is that the ishtar can do it a lot better.
If you fit the curse for full on ewar, then sure i can see you nossing and droning the tar to death before it gets to start harming you, but then i can't see that as a very 'normal' outfit, and that kind of thing goes for any ship with a lot of meds, not just the curse.
Even in those circumstances the ishtar is probably just waiting for you to miss a cycle then jam you back and repair all the damage done.
Fighting an ishtar in anything is fraught with danger in my opinion becuase its brutally versatile even in its generalist setting. 5 slot tank with assault resists is nasty, and then 5 slots for webs and scrams and other general Ewar makes fighting it a matter of educated guess work, and hoping that it doesn't have the right combination of gadgets to slap you about.
To sumerise : Curse good , Ishtar very good. Depends on set-up and luck if your both jamming who wins really.
I have some sort of genetic defect that makes my sigs too big :( |
Meridius
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Posted - 2006.02.17 19:07:00 -
[25]
It's pretty simple, the Ishtar will win everytime if no jamming is involved.
How? The Curse will drain the Ishtar, the Ishtar will try and get it's cap back, after a few cycles they will both be left with zero cap. Without cap coming from nos the Curse's reps will shut down in no time. The Ishtar will win out because of more damage, more hp and higher resists.
The Ishtar can always get it's drones to kill the Curse's as well, that wouldnt take long at all. Especially if the Curse is using 3 heavies. There is no way the Curse can kill off the Ishtars drones as it can field 3 waves of heavy drones.
Ishtar's should absolutely clown a Curse everytime.
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WE get EVERRYYWHHHEERREEEE!!1 - Imaran |
Meridius
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Posted - 2006.02.17 19:10:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Dash Ripcock
As the Curse pilot the first thing you do is kill the drones
The Ishtar would own the **** out of a Curse's drones.
5 medium drones vs 15 heavy drones...uhh.
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WE get EVERRYYWHHHEERREEEE!!1 - Imaran |
Cryselle
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Posted - 2006.02.17 19:47:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Cryselle on 17/02/2006 19:48:08
I would put my money on the Curse (if the Pilot has the needed skills).
With 2 Neutralizers, and 3 Med Nosferatus a Curse can almost insta drain a Ishtar at 40+ km Range.
And with a Backup Array the Radar Str is 36 on the Curse - good luck jamming that (even with some Cap left).
And staying out of Nos range of the Ishtar should be feasible.
I think the odds are quite good for the Curse tanking 5 Heavy Drones with a tank running, than trying to tank 5 meds without cap.
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Baun
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Posted - 2006.02.17 20:12:00 -
[28]
Whoever jams the other ship first wins.
If neither ship jams then the curse loses.
It really is that simple. The Ishtar's drone will outdamage any tank the curse can do BUT if the ishtar cannot slow the curse down then it can significantly reduce the damage it is being dealt while making the ishtar unable to tank (I know that my curse would drain the isthar's cap in about 14 seconds).
The Enemy's Gate is Down
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Eyeshadow
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Posted - 2006.02.17 20:20:00 -
[29]
Good luck killing the ishtars drones. My ogre IIs have over 2k hitpoints each on my ishtar. You'd be dead before you even killed 1 of them. 430 DPS 4tw
ECM is irrelevant as id pop them straight away. NOS is irrelevant cos i dont need cap to shoot. I have better resists, more armor and a lot more damage output. The curse wouldnt stand a chance
My Latest Vid (16/02/06) |
Adelea Amarr
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Posted - 2006.02.17 20:20:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Adelea Amarr on 17/02/2006 20:20:41
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