I would appreciate it if ISIS told me whether or not flying a specific boat would potentially put me in the DANGER ZONE!

Great work on the ISIS system, devs! Just playing around with it a bit this morning and at first glance, there's a lot to like. Clear and readable, I really like the catalog tree for the various ships with the wireframe icons. It's a great reference for relative newbs such as myself (and I would imagine for more experienced players as well).

Excellent GUI work: it is very challenging to present that much information in a legible and visually appealing way, and you guys have done both.

Thinking for yourself is hard...

I see my joke has failed. Time to go back to mining.

I see my joke has failed. Time to go back to mining.

Mining does horrid things to your brain. That's why it didn't work.

Agreed the new ISIS is very nice.

Pitty the new mastery system has told me I have to train even more to be able to good at my ships.

The highest I have is a level 3 and that is on the shuttles.

Looks like your mouth is writing checks your body can't cash, eh?

I would love to see more work like ISIS. More the modules, skills, timelines, etc.

Great balls of fire!

Looks like your mouthego is writing checks your body can't cash, eh?

For some reason I need drone skills to Master the Tengu.

Well I've got mastery 3 on a freighter I cant fly.....

No subsystem skills necessary for mastery of the Proteus. At all. I call shenanigans?

Tech 3 are a royal pain in the in the rear exhaust pipe to show properly in the ISIS, because of their modular nature. I just wanted to remove them from the game while laughing maniacally, but various Dev quickly attached me in some closet while kicking me in the face.

We would like to show the Tech 3 ships properly in the future, but that's going to take some effort.

I would appreciate it if ISIS told me whether or not flying a specific boat would potentially put me in the DANGER ZONE!

Tech 3 are a royal pain in the in the rear exhaust pipe...

I can't even be an elite Velator pilot after 8 years playing - I'm thinking of biomassing myself and starting again the shame is so bad.

Tech 3 are a royal pain in the in the rear exhaust pipe to show properly in the ISIS, because of their modular nature. I just wanted to remove them from the game while laughing maniacally, but various Dev quickly attached me in some closet while kicking me in the face.

We would like to show the Tech 3 ships properly in the future, but that's going to take some effort.

BUT! It really needs better multi monitor support. I want to be able to center the tree on my main monitor, The way it is now, most of the info is getting lost in the bezel 'gutter'.

apperently on logi's like guadians and scimitars you need Advanced Target Management Level V. which would mean you got the skills for 12 targets. only the ship can only target 10. same with carriers. only way to get more targets is an auto targetter but thats kindoff useless on such a ship.

I do like ISIS, it looks awesome.

only a few little things i noticed on checking out the ships i can fly.

apperently on logi's like guadians and scimitars you need Advanced Target Management Level V. which would mean you got the skills for 12 targets. only the ship can only target 10. same with carriers. only way to get more targets is an auto targetter but thats kindoff useless on such a ship.

on Jumpfreigters it says you need capital ships lvl V for max mastery, but according to the discription of the skill it doesn't do anything for those ships. since you don't need the cap ship skill for flying a JF.

so i'm wondering does the cap ship skill do anything for my JF or is the mastery thing wrong?

Those are good points, I'm looking at Certificates / Masteries right now and changing them not to give you guys inaccurate information. I've seen from a Reddit thread that industrials and logistics ships require WU and AWU despite having no use for weapons, I'm also looking at removing that (for those with accounts there feel free to link that post to them).

Those are good points, I'm looking at Certificates / Masteries right now and changing them not to give you guys inaccurate information. I've seen from a Reddit thread that industrials and logistics ships require WU and AWU despite having no use for weapons, I'm also looking at removing that (for those with accounts there feel free to link that post to them).

I would appreciate it if ISIS told me whether or not flying a specific boat would potentially put me in the DANGER ZONE!

Signal Amplifier II also adds +2 max lockable targets. This module wouldn't be uselsess on a logistic because of its scan resolution and lock range bonus.

Stuff

1. Mastery do not include ship skills by design, since they are tied to Certificates, not Spaceship Command skills. Again, the whole point is to allow the user to see which hulls he could fly with good skills even if hasn't trained the main requirements for it. For instance, if I have trained for the Incursion, I know I may be good in Catalyst or Federation Navy Comet without having them unlocked. It allows the user to set high level goals.

2. Mastery V are supposed to be elite. Having all the skills that are even marginally useful maxed is the whole point. It's at this point we want the user to feel he / she has completed everything tied with the ship he's flying, including things like all Tech 2 drone specialization for drone ships for instance. It isn't supposed to be easy to reach. For new players or even mid-term users, Masteries 1-4 is where the meat of the content is I agree some skills aren't needed though, which is why I'm tweaking them as we speak, but Masteries V aren't supposed to be easily reached, so train harder.

3. That is a good point, may want to look into that.

As mentioned above, ISIS and the new Certificates are meant to be a guideline for new players, progression tool for the average Joe or a completion tool. It cannot be made to tailor every single need for the advanced user in all cases, unfortunately, that's what Corporation Certificate would be for. We aren't planning on working on those straight away, but they definitely are in our to-do list.

I appreciate your response! Don't misunderstand the tone of my post. I'm annoyed about the details, but I think ISIS is a fantastic (and pretty!) initiative in general.

Conclusion:
The ISIS system is promising, but ultimately fails due to a) CCPs refusal to make realistic certificates based on how ships are actually fitted and flown in Eve, b) the inclusion of lengthy, but only marginally relevant trains that will have new players spending months training without actually becoming much better at the ship they intend to fly and c) not distinguishing that some skills are more important to certain ships than other. Certificates and masteries should not be 'bling' that players train merely so they can say they did, but genuinely useful guides for new players, and more experienced players training into unfamiliar ships.

Either improve this system, or allow corporations and alliances to make their own certificates masteries. As it is you are hurting, not helping, players who will be relying on this system.

This post was very well written, well done

Prove what?

Some of you pilots that are complaining about the ISIS are really dumb, doesn't take a genius to work it out. So any changes they make for your benefit won't make any difference because you're dumb and still won't get it.

The points a, b and c.

Those are good points, I'm looking at Certificates / Masteruies right now and changing them not to give you guys inaccurate information. I've seen from a Reddit thread that industrials and logistics ships require WU and AWU despite having no use for weapons, I'm also looking at removing that (for those with accounts there feel free to link that post to them).

What the hell does Warp Core Operation V have to do with mastering my Myrmidon? Seriously?

The guy made his arguments and they were sound. He was giving his opinion as feedback to help CCP make a useful guide for newbies. I was praising him for making good arguments. Don't flip out.

Those are good points, I'm looking at Certificates / Masteries right now and changing them not to give you guys inaccurate information. I've seen from a Reddit thread that industrials and logistics ships require WU and AWU despite having no use for weapons, I'm also looking at removing that (for those with accounts there feel free to link that post to them).

Great work on the ISIS system, devs! Just playing around with it a bit this morning and at first glance, there's a lot to like. Clear and readable, I really like the catalog tree for the various ships with the wireframe icons. It's a great reference for relative newbs such as myself (and I would imagine for more experienced players as well).

Excellent GUI work: it is very challenging to present that much information in a legible and visually appealing way, and you guys have done both.

First forum post...

Love the new ISIS thang.
Lots of info presented well.

BUT! It really needs better multi monitor support. I want to be able to center the tree on my main monitor, The way it is now, most of the info is getting lost in the bezel 'gutter'.
Please fix as this is a really cool tool.

When first using ISIS I had the tendency to try to zoom in by scrolling up (away from me) and zoom out by scrolling down (towards me), however I had to scroll in reverse in order to zoom the way I wanted to. I asked two friends who don't play EVE to try to zoom in or out in ISIS and they both tried to scroll up to zoom in and scroll down to zoom out.

Is it just us or is that how zooming via scrolling normally works? Should zooming via scrolling be inverted?

Yes, I know this is nitpicking and ISIS is really cool, but I'm curious if other people had the same feeling.

Most people are used to zooming in by scrolling the scroll wheel up from using tools like Google Maps, but EVE has had it reversed from the beginning so we had to keep it consistent with everything else inside the game itself even though it has become more common to do it the other way in other products/tools. So we had the ISIS use the same zoom metods has used when in space, star map and Planetary Interaction, etc. We could discuss the option of reversing it globally, but that would be a significant change which would affect all players of EVE so we would need to discuss that in detail with the community :-)

Just have a UI switch that allows it to be reversible solves all the issues

Sounds like a very reasonable solution

Sounds like a very reasonable solution

What are YOU DOING? Didn't you get the memo?!? EVE controls aren't supposed to be flexible.
Got an idea, if you press that UI switch it also randomizes mouse input directions, so if you go right it goes upper-left and so on...

Opened ISIS, saw that propulsion jamming is required for Venture mastery, laughed, and closed ISIS.

Opened ISIS, saw that propulsion jamming is required for Venture mastery, laughed, and closed ISIS.

Interesting, will have a look.

Sounds fine to me. The Bait Venture is on a lot of killmails.

I like the ISIS, but there are a few of things I find rather odd:


- as previously said, all ships that require higher target management than the max number of targets of the hull.

- shield tanking requiring the shield compensation skills, which are utterly useless since the active hardeners don't profit from them anymore and passive shield hardeners are almost never used (unlike EANM, justifying armor compensation).

.....the whole point is to allow the user to see which hulls he could fly with good skills even if hasn't trained the main requirements for it.

Those are good points, I'm looking at Certificates / Masteries right now and changing them not to give you guys inaccurate information. I've seen from a Reddit thread that industrials and logistics ships require WU and AWU despite having no use for weapons, I'm also looking at removing that (for those with accounts there feel free to link that post to them).

I was looking at the Hulk and wondering why I had such a low Mastery level. Apparently you need Gas harvesting for Mastery III and above. But a gas harvester counts as a turret, and exhumers have no turret hard points. You cannot fit a gas harvester to one.

So why does that skill allow me to fly a Hulk with good skill?