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Sticky:Feedback Request - Margin trading and accurate market UI

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Andy Koraka PonyWaffe Insidious Empire 22	Posted - 2013.12.30 08:11:00 - [421] - Quote Natsumi Nishizawa wrote: Morwennon wrote: Wouldn't it be better to have a more sensible escrow system such that a buy order is always backed by at least x% of its face value? IIRC, the way it works now is that if you post a buy order with Margin Trading V, the game takes 24% of the order's value from your wallet and dumps it into escrow. However, when someone sells to that buy order, they get paid from the escrow rather than from your wallet until the escrow is drained. This is what allows scamming players to create orders with zero backing - they place the order and then immediately sell some of their own goods into it at a price that will consume all of the escrow money. With the escrow thus removed, they empty the wallet of the buying character leaving a buy order that is backed by no escrow and an empty wallet and therefore cannot ever be filled. You could change it so that any time someone tried to sell to the order, 24% of the payout would come from the escrow and 76% from the buying character's wallet. That would at least ensure that all orders were backed by the expected percentage and put a cap on the maximum profit achievable from a single fake MT buy order. I just have to say that this is NOT how it works. What they do is set a minimum number to sell (ie. 5) and if the money is not there to cover all 5 the whole sale doesn't go through. They don't drain the escrow because there is no point to that. They get all the escrow back when the order fails. The simplest non-bullshit fix to this is get rid of minimum numbers on orders period. It doesn't really fulfill an IMPORTANT role as is, since most people don't do region orders anyway. Morwennon is actually correct, intelligent scammers always clear their escrow by selling to themselves and the ones who don't lose a LOT of money to counter-scams. Basically there are a number of people (some of them bulk traders, many of them fellow scammers) who purchase significant quantities of the cheap items which are frequently scammed. Example: Tom Scammer sets up a Margin Trade buy order for 1,000 Meta 1 Explosive Hardeners at 1 million each, a total value of 1billion isk. He has Margin Trading IV (noone actually gets it to V) which means he has 316,406,250isk tied up in Escrow. Trader Joe, recognizes the margin scam linked in local and realizes he has 1,000 Meta 1 Explosive Hardeners (which normally sell at 1,000 isk each) from a long duration buy order. Joe sells to the buy order at a price of 300,000isk each for a total value of 300m isk. 300m is transferred from Tom's escrow directly to Joe's wallet and the 16,406,250 remaining escrow is returned to Tom's wallet since the buy order is filled. In that situation Tom is out 300m to Joe, 50m in Broker fees, and however much he originally paid for the items. By clearing your escrow (by selling to yourself on an alt) none of your money is actually at risk.
CraigVoller Cartel Alpha Squad Boarderline Cartel 0	Posted - 2013.12.30 20:10:00 - [422] - Quote mynnna wrote: Destoya wrote: I'm all for the removal of the margin trading scam; I think something that appears to work in the market UI (selling a valuable item in the case of the scam) should work. Scams should in my opinion require some human error (ex selling 2 plex for 1 or w/e), not just not understanding how the orders work. Gonna get out in front here and say that this is my viewpoint exactly. Scams are cool, scams that work because the game is lying to you or because the interface is bad/unclear rather than because you talked someone out of their stuff, less so. But wrecking the many legitimate uses of the skill is also not cool, so let's hear your ideas. My thoughts exactly. Plus 1
Cheekything Dark-Rising Executive Outcomes 127	Posted - 2014.01.01 13:57:00 - [423] - Quote This might sound like a long shot and I apologise if I missed it when reading this thread, but frankly I'd like to see an end to bad buy orders in general, not just scams. I would like to see that any buy orders that exceed 2-5 times of the market average for that region have to have the isk for 24-72 hours before they appear on the market and get removed the instantly when the isk is removed. So using a mundane item as an example an Atron ship if the average is 500k sell for that region and the buy order suddenly goes to 2 million then that gets flagged as a exception and has to wait to appear then if it's using margin trading then the seller has to always have the iskies else the trade vanishes. Another option to combat bad buy orders would be to have a setting on the market place that filters sell to orders that have a minimum requirement that is more than 1 and you have to manually set it off to see the orders that require more than 1. This would have the affect of hiding all these combo buy orders which tend to be the biggest issue when it comes to margin trading in my option, I've rarely seen 1 of the items to buy order it's normally 2 or 3 to stop randoms with a spare of those items affecting the order.
Caleb Seremshur Gladiators of Rage Fidelas Constans 182	Posted - 2014.01.01 14:52:00 - [424] - Quote mynnna wrote: Destoya wrote: I'm all for the removal of the margin trading scam; I think something that appears to work in the market UI (selling a valuable item in the case of the scam) should work. Scams should in my opinion require some human error (ex selling 2 plex for 1 or w/e), not just not understanding how the orders work. Gonna get out in front here and say that this is my viewpoint exactly. Scams are cool, scams that work because the game is lying to you or because the interface is bad/unclear rather than because you talked someone out of their stuff, less so. But wrecking the many legitimate uses of the skill is also not cool, so let's hear your ideas. Remove the skill entirely until an actual solution is found. Draconian but it solves the problem. Without some kind of central authority handling credit ratings there's just simply no way to make this work in any realistic or sensible way. LP store weapon cost rebalance
Mag's the united SCUM. 16387	Posted - 2014.01.01 15:15:00 - [425] - Quote Caleb Seremshur wrote: mynnna wrote: Destoya wrote: I'm all for the removal of the margin trading scam; I think something that appears to work in the market UI (selling a valuable item in the case of the scam) should work. Scams should in my opinion require some human error (ex selling 2 plex for 1 or w/e), not just not understanding how the orders work. Gonna get out in front here and say that this is my viewpoint exactly. Scams are cool, scams that work because the game is lying to you or because the interface is bad/unclear rather than because you talked someone out of their stuff, less so. But wrecking the many legitimate uses of the skill is also not cool, so let's hear your ideas. Remove the skill entirely until an actual solution is found. Draconian but it solves the problem. Without some kind of central authority handling credit ratings there's just simply no way to make this work in any realistic or sensible way. What problem? You cannot be harmed by the failure of a buy order. If you mean the problem of some, assuming buy orders are guaranteed? Then how does removing the skill help that in any way? Surely a simple warning that states they are not, would suffice? Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Jacob Cobb Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2014.01.25 22:59:00 - [426] - Quote Right... So let me get this straight. Now... I have been an player of EVE for many years now. I have even played in different places around the world. Hell... I even tried playing during some down time in Afghanistan and Iraq..... that did not go so well. At any rate, I was recently made aware of something. Now this did not happen to me. But It happened to a friend I got interested in EVE. And apparently this is, and has been an on going issue for some time. Apparently it is has gone on long enough and become enough of an issue to have had a DEV assigned to it. My question is why has nothing been done to fix it. Especially when in the opening remark from the DEV (CCP Rise) says... The intent was to have this fixed at the release of Rubicon. Well apparently CCP (the company) has spoken with the CSM (a group of elected players) about the identified 'exploit' problem. However, CCP was for what ever reason, under whatever guise, was dissuaded from doing anything. Wait what? So who's really driving the bus here? I mean who's in charge of making decisions.... the CSM -an elected group of individuals that for all practical purposes only represent the PVP, low and null sec players. After all that is who got them elected. Or is CCP -you know the actual company that employs the programmers? After all the original concept of the CSM was to bring issues that the payers presented to them to the CCP staff. Not to say or dictate what is or is not acceptable, or what is or is not going to be fixed. But on to the initial problem I see here. I am all for the learning curve of EVE. It helps to weed out individuals that should be off playing some other warm and fuzzy hack and slash fantasy game. However, when there is an openly known exploit (or mechanic that is being abused) in the game where players can use the in game mechanic to 'legally' steal from other players. That is wrong in my opinion. Don't misunderstand me here. I am all for scamming people. If you can sweet talk someone into buying a polished turd for a billion ISK, more power to ya. But this margin trading scam is not that. I see the only way to fix the issue as being this. You place a BUY order. You either have the ISK to cover it your you don't. IF you have the funds, buy order processed and listed on the market. IF you don't.... then no trade for you... period. With the Margin trading skill you can place the order (based upon your skill) with a % of the total sale. However, if you become unable to pay the full amount (for any reason, the ISK in not available) your buy order(s) are canceled. No refund of any incurred cost. Note this dose not prevent someone from selling that polished turd for a billion ISK. But it dose stop a person from using an in game mechanic to legally steal from another player without any real interaction between the players. Further more it will not hurt a legitimate deal. Because if a player is trying to by a ship and places a buy order for two. Full well knowing they can only buy one. As soon as that buy order goes through for one of them. The second buy order is canceled. No longer appearing on the market. Scamming people is one thing using an in game mechanic to rob them is different plain and simple. Now all of the folks that have learnt how to use this in game mechanic to their benefit are going to come up with all sorts of reasons and explanations on how its not an exploit, and it doesn't need to be changed, or its not broken, or any number of other lame reasons. The point of the fact is this. The in game mechanic is being abused and exploited ... fix it.
Froggie Ribbit Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2014.01.26 20:45:00 - [427] - Quote Bump... Cause this needs to stay up and be addressed....
Xe'Cara'eos A Big Enough Lever 62	Posted - 2014.01.27 00:05:00 - [428] - Quote I agree, I've already said my piece - about if an order can't be fulfilled (sold to) it shouldn't show on the market and that the minimum quantity should be more easily visible. But this really should be addressed sooner rather than later.
TheSmokingHertog TALIBAN EXPRESS 185	Posted - 2014.01.27 01:22:00 - [429] - Quote I agree, bumping for a good cause.
Sable Moran Moran Light Industries 339	Posted - 2014.01.27 19:02:00 - [430] - Quote There's still nothing wrong with the skill, works exactly as designed and implemented. What's wrong is simply that some people are... shall we say... intellectually challenged and greedy at the same time. That combination needs to be punished and there really is no better way to punish someone than going through his/her wallet. Sable's Ammo Shop at Alentene V - Moon 4 - Duvolle Labs Factory. Hybrid charges, Projectile ammo, Missiles, Drones, Ships, Need'em? We have'em, at affordable prices. Pop in at our Ammo Shop in sunny Alentene.
indiana bones Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 66	Posted - 2014.01.27 19:13:00 - [431] - Quote Remove skill from game and reimburse SP. Probably not the most popular suggestion, but would solve the problem.
Jacob Cobb Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2014.01.28 07:57:00 - [432] - Quote I am not in favor of cutting the Margin Trading skill from the game. I am interested in stopping people from using an in game mechanic to cheat people. So... here is an idea something that might be doable for a short term idea. Something to start with. As in a "hot fix" NOW... Make it so that the Margin Trading skill is non-trainable on trial accounts. And to be honest, perhaps more of the market based skills should be set this way. In order to prevent individuals from using trial accounts in an abusive manner. Further more, I would even go so far as to suggest the tracking of either email address associated with trial accounts. Because if an individual has 50+ trail accounts associated with an email address.... there might be something wrong going on here. Ohh say like CCP being robbed of real world cashey money. Or instead of tracking email address, since those can just be generated as needed. Perhaps tracking ISP address. As for the statement of ............ Sable Moran wrote: There's still nothing wrong with the skill, works exactly as designed and implemented. What's wrong is simply that some people are... shall we say... intellectually challenged and greedy at the same time. That combination needs to be punished and there really is no better way to punish someone than going through his/her wallet. I do not agree completely. Yes the skill works correctly. people are not being greedy. They are trying to get ahead. They are trying to make a profit on someone else's 'apparent mistake'. But the part about "What's wrong is simply that some people are... shall we say... intellectually challenged" Is inaccurate in my opinion. For the simple fact that the system, and the way it works, in reference to this loophole, is not really clear to the average player. And unless someone were to stumble across this post. And read through it.... most people would not really know anything about it. I would bet that there are even people that have been cheated. And did not understand why it happened and just dropped it because they did not understand in the first place. So calling most players stupid is poor form, and kind of rude. Because that is what you did, on both accounts.
Sable Moran Moran Light Industries 339	Posted - 2014.01.28 10:32:00 - [433] - Quote Jacob Cobb wrote: Or instead of tracking email address, since those can just be generated as needed. Perhaps tracking ISP address. IP addresses (and MAC's too) can be generated just like email addresses so that wouldn't work either. Jacob Cobb wrote: Sable Moran wrote: There's still nothing wrong with the skill, works exactly as designed and implemented. What's wrong is simply that some people are... shall we say... intellectually challenged and greedy at the same time. That combination needs to be punished and there really is no better way to punish someone than going through his/her wallet. I do not agree completely. Fair enough, difference of opinion is a good thing it induces lively conversations Jacob Cobb wrote: Yes the skill works correctly. people are not being greedy. They are trying to get ahead. They are trying to make a profit on someone else's 'apparent mistake'. But the part about "What's wrong is simply that some people are... shall we say... intellectually challenged" Is inaccurate in my opinion. For the simple fact that the system, and the way it works, in reference to this loophole, is not really clear to the average player. And unless someone were to stumble across this post. And read through it.... most people would not really know anything about it. I would bet that there are even people that have been cheated. And did not understand why it happened and just dropped it because they did not understand in the first place. Sounds like if not exactly a dictionary definition but at least a good description of stupidity. All the data is there, it's up to the individuals ability to use that data to his/her advantage. Jacob Cobb wrote: So calling most players stupid is poor form, and kind of rude. Because that is what you did, on both accounts. Well, I did try to use a nice euphemism. Doesn't that count? Also I wouldn't say this applies to 'most players' only to a sizeable portion of them just like in RL. Sable's Ammo Shop at Alentene V - Moon 4 - Duvolle Labs Factory. Hybrid charges, Projectile ammo, Missiles, Drones, Ships, Need'em? We have'em, at affordable prices. Pop in at our Ammo Shop in sunny Alentene.
Gizznitt Malikite Agony Unleashed Agony Empire 3473	Posted - 2014.01.28 19:58:00 - [434] - Quote Xe'Cara'eos wrote: I agree, I've already said my piece - about if an order can't be fulfilled (sold to) it shouldn't show on the market and that the minimum quantity should be more easily visible. But this really should be addressed sooner rather than later. Do you realize how much wasted CPU is involved with this solution: Every time your wallet changes, the game must perform a query to see if you can meet all your market orders. Given the amount of buying and selling a serious trader does in game, I'd think this cpu usage is much, much better spent elsewhere. There really is only one viable suggestion to all you "cancel the market order" crowd. It is very simple: For a fee, allow anyone to verify a market order. They simply need to right click on an order and select "verify it with the broker". If the order is legit, the broker tells you. If the order has insufficient funds backing it, the broker tells you, and cancels the order. Make the fee a reasonable value (1m isk or something), so it is used conservatively.
Soldarius Deadman W0nderland Test Alliance Please Ignore 497	Posted - 2014.01.28 20:55:00 - [435] - Quote Gizznitt Malikite wrote: For a fee, allow anyone to verify a market order. They simply need to right click on an order and select "verify it with the broker". If the order is legit, the broker tells you. If the order has insufficient funds backing it, the broker tells you, and cancels the order. Make the fee a reasonable value (1m isk or something), so it is used conservatively. I was going to troll this response. But after a moment of thought, I decided that having a "Verify Order" option in the advanced order window might actually work. There should be a fee for this service with a limit of say 1M isk or 1%, which ever is lower. NPCs don't work for free. (Just almost for free.) Could also have a Trade skill called "Broker Relations" or something similar to reduce the fee per order. And/Or it could be based on one's standings with the station owner. Since the margin trading scam is based on tricking someone into buying a high price and low volume item on the hope of them selling it back to the fake buy order, being able to verify the buy order before hand should allow one to know for certain if it is legit. While this will not stop an attentive scammer from canceling the buy order as soon as the item is sold, at least the scam would be executed by an active player rather than through inaccurate/misleading market mechanics. Free Ripley Weaver!
TheSmokingHertog TALIBAN EXPRESS 185	Posted - 2014.02.01 15:18:00 - [436] - Quote Bump.
Fotis Pulsar Wind Labs 0	Posted - 2014.02.02 11:56:00 - [437] - Quote I believe that the margin trading scam has to be fixed by automatic cancelling of unfulfillable buy orders, I understand that this will produce database load but it's something that has to be done. Your programmers will find the best way to implement it and the actual impact on performance will be minimal
Your Dad Naked State War Academy Caldari State 6	Posted - 2014.02.02 20:31:00 - [438] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: A second possibility, which emerged from the discussion with the CSM, was built around marking orders in the market interface based on whether or not they were placed using margin trading. This would mean that when you place a buy order you would have to decide whether that would be a 'guaranteed' order or not, and then it would be marked (colored or check boxed or something) in the market interface so that people would know whether there was risk involved in trying to fill the order. This has several problems also, including: making legitimate market activity seem shady, making the interface more confusing, adding clicks for people placing orders and also costing new players money by steering them away from cheaper orders because of fear of scams. If you ask me, none of these are legitimate reasons to hold up enacting this second possibility. Making legitimate market activity seem shady - Risk vs Reward is the name of the game. In this case, it would apply to both margin trading buyers and sellers. In it's current state the risk is only towards the buyer. Making the interface more confusing - If someone gets confused about this they should quit EVE and go play WoW. Please don't dumb down your game as a response to people's general lack of intelligence. Adding clicks for people placing orders - 1 more click. In an activity (trading) that involves dozens of clicks per minute. Yeah, I think we'll be okay. Costing new players money by steering them away from cheaper orders because of fear of scams - I disagree that most of the cheapest orders are done through margin trading. Also, risk vs reward. Also, freedom of sandbox has always taken precedence over preservation of newbie ISK. Please fix marginal trading via the second possibility.
Your Dad Naked State War Academy Caldari State 6	Posted - 2014.02.02 20:36:00 - [439] - Quote double post
Mu-Shi Ai Ai Capital 214	Posted - 2014.02.08 03:14:00 - [440] - Quote Imagine that you buy something off the market or contracts, hoping to sell it to a tasty buy order on the market. The buy order is totally "legitimate" (in other words, it's not rigged to fail due to insufficient available funds), but someone manages to fill it before you can. In this situation, how is the result functionally different than what happens when somebody rigs up a Margin Trading scam? I suggest that you, the person who has suffered this unfortunate circumstance, cannot distinguish between one and the other. A player has no inherent right to be the one who fills a particular buy order, no matter how amazing the profit potential looks to be. You could just as easily be beaten to the punch by somebody else as you could be scammed by some unscrupulous individual. This comparison also reveals the core component of the Margin Trading scam, which is that you've been psychologically duped into making an excessive financial outlay of your own volition, believing in the certainty of profit. But profit is never certain when you're dealing with buy and sell orders in EVE. This scam depends entirely on one's insufficient knowledge of the market and lack of healthy skepticism. Just as having the Corporation Management skills to run a gigantic alliance does not immediately hand one the keys to the kingdom (and its coffers), the Margin Trading skill does not grant anybody magical powers to siphon ISK from the wallets of other players. So, really, enough with this nonsense about nerfing Margin Trading. It is an extremely useful skill--especially for traders who rely on a relatively slow trickle of buying and selling over a broad area (i.e. players who do regionwide station trading). Why should these players have to suffer just because scam victims chose not to understand the market before investing in items, or chose not to be skeptical of a deal that looked too good to be true? (Here's a big hint: if the prices don't look right and the buy order has a quantity limit higher than 1, that's a big red flag.)
Ersahi Kir The Empire Corporation 378	Posted - 2014.02.08 07:51:00 - [441] - Quote Thomas Hurt wrote: Automatically cancel any orders where the 'Minimum Buy Volume' * 'Price per unit' is greater than the amount in your wallet I like this solution, but instead of canceling the order maybe it could get filtered out so that it doesn't show up in the market buy order.
Mag's the united SCUM. 16656	Posted - 2014.02.08 08:58:00 - [442] - Quote Ersahi Kir wrote: Thomas Hurt wrote: Automatically cancel any orders where the 'Minimum Buy Volume' * 'Price per unit' is greater than the amount in your wallet I like this solution, but instead of canceling the order maybe it could get filtered out so that it doesn't show up in the market buy order. Why exactly? No one but the buyer, is hurt when a buy order fails. Why should the seller need this information? If anything is required, it is a simple message that tells pilots *'Orders are not guaranteed'. Destination SkillQueue:-* It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Nelly Uanos Quebec's Underdog League Quebec United Legions 8	Posted - 2014.02.08 09:00:00 - [443] - Quote Just had an idea... didn't read all the 20 pages so sorry if this already have been proposed. Idea is a trader rating system. (Kinda the same we have for crime watch and also related to the security status.) Market PVP It could go from 10 to -10. Each time one of your buy order fail because of missing ISK you get a hit to your trader rating. Each time a trade conclude you get some point for your trade rating. The variance of + or - should be according to the amount of isk going through. So the bigger the scam you make the bigger hit your trader rating take. So let's say when your trader rating go below -2 all your market order will switch to orange background, this will alert people that you've been dealing in shady market operation. When it reach -5 all your market order will switch to red background, clearly saying you are scamming people. (The -2 or -5 are arbitrary number I just put up, it's just to show up the base idea.) Hope you guys like it and that it could be easily implemented software-wise.
Mag's the united SCUM. 16656	Posted - 2014.02.08 09:06:00 - [444] - Quote Nelly Uanos wrote: Just had an idea... didn't read all the 20 pages so sorry if this already have been proposed. Idea is a trader rating system. (Kinda the same we have for crime watch and also related to the security status.) Market PVP It could go from 10 to -10. Each time one of your buy order fail because of missing ISK you get a hit to your trader rating. Each time a trade conclude you get some point for your trade rating. The variance of + or - should be according to the amount of isk going through. So the bigger the scam you make the bigger hit your trader rating take. So let's say when your trader rating go below -2 all your market order will switch to orange background, this will alert people that you've been dealing in shady market operation. When it reach -5 all your market order will switch to red background, clearly saying you are scamming people. (The -2 or -5 are arbitrary number I just put up, it's just to show up the base idea.) Hope you guys like it and that it could be easily implemented software-wise. As long as those that buy over priced goods, after seeing a buy order for more, also get hit with it. After all, they are far worse, as they do it without really thinking first. Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Nelly Uanos Quebec's Underdog League Quebec United Legions 8	Posted - 2014.02.08 09:09:00 - [445] - Quote What? Why should people seeing a good opportunity get hit too? I don't get it.
Mag's the united SCUM. 16656	Posted - 2014.02.08 09:13:00 - [446] - Quote Nelly Uanos wrote: What? Why should people seeing a good opportunity get hit too? I don't get it. What good opportunity? Why do you think people are here? Do you even understand the scam? Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Nelly Uanos Quebec's Underdog League Quebec United Legions 8	Posted - 2014.02.08 09:49:00 - [447] - Quote Yes I know the scam.... and yes I already buyed some items that were cheaper to go resell them 2 jumps away for a better price. Why should I take a hit for that? That's just stupid... That's what the market UI tell you right now... you see one item selling for less than you can re-sell it = Good opportunity. Unfortunatly that skill make that opportunity a uncertain business. My system will not prevent the scam itself... it will just put warning on peoples abusing that system. It will also allow people to continue stretching their money but they will get a warning when they goes too far.
Mag's the united SCUM. 16657	Posted - 2014.02.08 11:00:00 - [448] - Quote Nelly Uanos wrote: Yes I know the scam.... and yes I already buyed some items that were cheaper to go resell them 2 jumps away for a better price. Why should I take a hit for that? That's just stupid... That's what the market UI tell you right now... you see one item selling for less than you can re-sell it = Good opportunity. Unfortunatly that skill make that opportunity a uncertain business. My system will not prevent the scam itself... it will just put warning on peoples abusing that system. It will also allow people to continue stretching their money but they will get a warning when they go too far. Wrong. The scam relies upon people NOT having checked to see if they are paying over the top for an item. It relies upon people thinking a buy order price, is both reliable and the true value of an item. It is NOT the fault of either the Market Trading skill, or the buy order, that someone thinks they are going to make some good ISK, but fail to do their home work first. If you wish to invest in the market, you need more that one buy order price to deduce the true value of an item. What we have right now, is people thinking they will make a quick buck and will screw over some seller, because they failed to do the checks and balances first. If you want your idea implemented, then it's only fair that those who pay too much for an item, get hit as well. After all, they let greed and the thought of screwing someone over, rule their decisions. But in a game that is PvP centric, it turns out someone out PvP'd them and they got screwed instead. But let's face it, your idea sucks and wouldn't work. It does not fix the problem here. That problem is greed, lack of knowledge and a failure to understand game mechanics. All of which could be helped with a simple message. *Orders are not guaranteed, buyer beware.* Anyway CCP were shown the error of their ways and dropped this thread like a stone. It's only those that wish for CCP to hold their hands, that continue to bring it back to page 1. Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Nelly Uanos Quebec's Underdog League Quebec United Legions 9	Posted - 2014.02.08 19:36:00 - [449] - Quote Oh well, at least I posted a suggestion to the OP problem instead of just disagreeing with it.
Sylveria Relden Spartan Shipyards THE H0NEYBADGER 12	Posted - 2014.02.08 19:55:00 - [450] - Quote Easily solved. You place a buy order = your deposit amount goes into escrow till it's fulfilled. Once it's fulfilled, your deposit is moved from escrow into the wallet of the one who fulfilled the order. End of story. Oh wait, that doesn't allow for exploitation of the interface, does it? You must be THIS tall to use the "I WIN" button.

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