Right. So you're saying that you aren't familiar with how unequal pay plays out in practice.

I'm saying that in the Western world, anyone who completes their education, leaves school and gets a career which they work hard at for 20 years will be earning the same salary regardless of their race or gender.

oops I meant Geek Feminism for th next post I mean thats what you are discussing now right? I mean are you telling me theres actually woman replying to this forum honestly the ones who eve profiles are woman that are posting are you really a females? please answer honestly Im just curious raise your hands

You're pretty much completely incorrect on both those points.

Right. So you're saying an employer will advertise a job with a different rate of pay depending on whether the applicant is male or female. Can't say I've witnessed this.

Good point! I would really would like also on this post a real womans point of view really.

Polite disagreement, fellow CODEling.

It happens more along these lines: even with equal, and sometimes superior training and job skills, many employers will pick a male applicant over a female. This happens predominantly in career fields that people see as stereotypically "male" jobs. Somehow computer programming has ended up on the "boys" list.


I've had a few jobs where, on doing a little investigation, I've found that I was the lowest paid member on the team. The "off the record" reason given was, if I didn't pan out in the stereotypically "male" position, the company wouldn't be wasting as much money on me.

Some employers will also pay a woman less operating on the assumption that "She'll get pregnant and have to take time off". You honestly see most of this happen in the "small-business" world.

Believe it or not there are women playing this game, i think there's even a chat channel for women of eve.

i doubt they post on the forums though. that would be like <1% of <10% of the player base, statistically.

EDIT: or the other way around. 'not many' is the point.

It happens more along these lines: even with equal, and sometimes superior training and job skills, many employers will pick a male applicant over a female. This happens predominantly in career fields that people see as stereotypically "male" jobs. Somehow computer programming has ended up on the "boys" list.


I've had a few jobs where, on doing a little investigation, I've found that I was the lowest paid member on the team. The "off the record" reason given was, if I didn't pan out in the stereotypically "male" position, the company wouldn't be wasting as much money on me.

Some employers will also pay a woman less operating on the assumption that "She'll get pregnant and have to take time off". You honestly see most of this happen in the "small-business" world.

Compelling argument.

From your description, I could only guess the reason this discrimination exists is because women in positions such as yours aren't aware of their rights and are not pursuing legal action when their rights have been violated. In your case, where you claim to have found evidence, I certainly hope you sought legal advice to help prevent this from happening to others.

What you have shown is that in some smaller demographics, a gender pay-gap still exists due to discrimination. This doesn't reflect the whole business world, but tends to occur in smaller businesses. From your description, I could only guess the reason this discrimination exists is because women in positions such as yours aren't aware of their rights and are not pursuing legal action when their rights have been violated. In your case, where you claim to have found evidence, I certainly hope you sought legal advice to help prevent this from happening to others.

Why is that? How do we get more woman to play eve online and also post on forums or is that not a good idea kinda tricky when it comes to woman issues and gaming wouldnt you think?I really would like to know I just cant figure this one out.

there's been hundreds of threads about this.

how to get more of us to play? there is no simple answer. when I first started playing I didn't think I would stick with it long. but it grew on me. maybe eve could be more accessible. more engaging. less brainy and less macho. but if it weren't would it still be eve? I don't have an answer. not sure I even want more women around. I kind of like being a 5%er or whatever it is now.

What you have shown is that in some smaller demographics, a gender pay-gap still exists due to discrimination. This doesn't reflect the whole business world, but tends to occur in smaller businesses. From your description, I could only guess the reason this discrimination exists is because women in positions such as yours aren't aware of their rights and are not pursuing legal action when their rights have been violated. In your case, where you claim to have found evidence, I certainly hope you sought legal advice to help prevent this from happening to others.

Perhaps you have the good fortune of never having met one.

Certainly more than yours. But if you want to dig up statistics that show every report on the subject matter published in the last decade to be wrong, or that the last 10GÇô20% of the gap (and I'm being very generous against many western countries here) have really been slam shut in less than a year, then please do so.

So, again, what you're saying is that you aren't familiar with how unequal pay plays out in practice.

the last 10GÇô20% of the gap

I don't deny that there are male feminists who do so for brownie points and don't actually care about equality. There are also feminists who completely misrepresent the issues, and others who are so radical and antagonistic they alienate potential supporters.

But there are also those who genuinely believe that there are important issues we still need to discuss and work on.

statistics irelevant its the pretty girls who move up the corp ladder in eve or in the real world or virtual thats a fact unfortunte for the girl who is skilled and can do th job better corps dont recruit or hire smart people because they are a threat so they will recruit the dumb blonde in that mini thats how it works. Woman are aware of that and some use that to there advantage not all most become victims of discrimination or violation of there rights.

Is this a 10-20% gap in specific jobs where males and females are equally educated, have equal experience and working equal hours, or is this gap just a general statistic about average male wages vs average female wages?

.

I'm not going to deny that discrimination exists. Of course it does and it always will, but laws are in place to prevent that. If those laws aren't doing what they're meant to do, we need to assess why. You say it's very difficult to prove and I believe you're right about that, so it would seem the problem lies with the courts and the methods with which the laws are enforced. It also indicates that perhaps people need to be more aware of what their rights are and when they are being violated.

Why is that? How do we get more woman to play eve online and also post on forums or is that not a good idea kinda tricky when it comes to woman issues and gaming wouldnt you think?I really would like to know I just cant figure this one out.

For most, it's just he former and then there are structural inequalities on top of that. For a select few, it's a combination of both. Either way, the myth is itself a myth, probably born out of people believing that it's just a matter of choice.

If I wanted to talk about averages, I would have said 20GÇô40% insteadGǪ

and what you're effectively saying GÇö GÇ£it doesn't exist because [laws]GÇ¥ GÇö is why I'm jumping to the conclusion that you're not familiar with how it plays out in practice. Dismissing the facts as myth because those facts shouldn't exist is pretty na+»ve.

If those laws aren't doing what they're meant to do, we need to assess why.

sooo...errrhm. what? are you implying a woman can't be attractive and intelligent? I think that's a bit stereotypical lol to say the least.

Is this a 10-20% gap in specific jobs where males and females are equally educated, have equal experience and working equal hours, or is this gap just a general statistic about average male wages vs average female wages? If it's the latter, it doesn't necessarily indicate discrimination. More evidence would need to be provided to make that assessment. In all likelihood, it's due to a difference in lifestyle choices between average men and women.