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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 7 post(s)
Tim Asamar	Posted - 2006.03.02 20:17:00 - [121] For those of you that have run servers before, think about when they start the cluster up. It is like a DDOS attack on their system. Thousands of people making dozens of database requests each. Just the fact that their server code can handle this should be enough to impress people. It sure impresses me. A delay in bring the server up after a patch is a very minor issue and 4 hours isnt very long in terms of code development. Calm down.
Survivor X	Posted - 2006.03.02 20:18:00 - [122] Originally by: Heather Skarsgard Originally by: Alastor Farwander OK, I have to ask...WTF? This is not a case of some people having minor issues. The game is totally crippled after patch, to the point that they had to take the whole friggin' thing offline and keep pushing back the restart time. How the hell can they claim to have tested this update? I'm on a trial acct right now...this fiasco is making it MUCH less likely that I'll turn it into a paid subscription. I'm gathering that this is pretty usual, too. I'm NOT impressed. well, close and uninstall EVE from your computer please, just launch World of Warcraft and stop crying here: EVE is not a game for impatient kids : p OK, I lied. But that is a weird/cool/odd/long corp name. Had to post that. ---------------------------------------
rig0r	Posted - 2006.03.02 20:18:00 - [123] Originally by: kieron Originally by: MainframeCN Ever thought about testing before implementing changes? Why, you might ask? Simply because there is no way to completely mirror the TQ code over to Sisi, nor is there a way to duplicate the server load TQ has on a daily basis over to Sisi. The load I can imagine, but howcome you can't mirror the TQ code ?
Active1313	Posted - 2006.03.02 20:18:00 - [124] Originally by: Punk Weasel Originally by: TheSickness could someone tell me the GMT time dif for USA Central time plz? Go here: www.timeanddate.com Or you can go here :) GMT 4TW! Please resize your signature graphic to be smaller than 400 pixels in width - Jacques
Telorvech	Posted - 2006.03.02 20:18:00 - [125] Originally by: Active1313 Originally by: Telorvech Originally by: Active1313 Originally by: Telorvech Edited by: Telorvech on 02/03/2006 19:37:51 Originally by: Active1313 Originally by: Telorvech I think fair and adequate compensation for all the lost time, lost training change-overs, lost ISK and lost assets/opportunities would be some "instant training" vouchers to instantly train a set amount of skills (player's discretion). I can honestly say that I haven't had any negative experiences with Eve and CCP thus far. This experience though is giving me flashbacks of SWG and the never-ending bungling of SOE... Sigh The complaints about lost training time are bogus. They told you to set a LONG skill, one that finishes a few hours after the DT is suppsoed to end is not a LONG skill that's a short skill. A LONG skill will finish days after the scheduled DT...and don't tryo convience me that you don't have a skill that will take days to level up.... Even if you set a skill to train that was longer than the scheduled downtime by an hour, to account for the unforeseen (as I did), you'd still be SOL... By your reasoning everytime they indicate we should train a long skill we should interpret that as an admission of guilt for not having completed any QA on the product the are delivering. Advocating the customers (us) to train a long skill is not a sufficient "CYA" disclaimer to mitigate a functional QA/T&E process. When we as consumers become complacent with "works-in-progress" and incomplete or untested material, we only set ourselves up for further disappointment. (Look what happened to SWG and SOE even in the face of voiced player discontent.) As consumers it is our right to provide feedback and demand a better product. No...I understand where you are coming from....However if you are explictly told to train a long skill "We don't forsee any issues, but they do arise" then it is out of scope to expect the rest of the community who did heed this warning in a better way (IE days long skill) to percevice you as waving a big stick around about nothing. I won't start to discuss the fact that people are complaining about getting a free product.... Free? I still pay a monthly charge, don't you? Nothing is free. LOL! Despite this being waaay OT at this point I will still make the point...Yes I pay a monthly fee. A nominal fee at that, now did I pay for the game nope, downloaded it for free, did I pay for blood? Am I going to Pay for Kali? Nope, now lets look at another MMO lets call it "MMO2" In order to play you have to 1. Go buy the game, 2. Pay to start your sub, 3.Play Game.....some time goes by and the dev team wants to put out an exapansion...so of course you want it..now comes 4. BUY the expansion....Now what's not free again? So i guess what you're saying then is that since I do no pay a specific "expansion" fee then I should just put up and deal with it? WEll, need I point out that with games like SWG, EQ and WOW it is still possible to play the game even if you don't buy the latest expansion. Here, we have no choice, we MUST accept the expansion and we therefore MUST be denied service and still be charged a monthly fee regardless if we wanted the "expansion" or not.
T'Kahr	Posted - 2006.03.02 20:20:00 - [126] Originally by: Waldo Barnstormer Originally by: Alastor Farwander OK, I have to ask...WTF? This is not a case of some people having minor issues. The game is totally crippled after patch, to the point that they had to take the whole friggin' thing offline and keep pushing back the restart time. How the hell can they claim to have tested this update? I'm on a trial acct right now...this fiasco is making it MUCH less likely that I'll turn it into a paid subscription. I'm gathering that this is pretty usual, too. I'm NOT impressed. with an attitude like that, we're probably better off without you.. go play WoW His attitude seems pretty normal to me, him being a trial user and having to deal with a patch day. Yours however needs some serious work ...
Thecle Vifargent	Posted - 2006.03.02 20:21:00 - [127] 2 days for RMR patch 2 month of unplaying game because the lag 1 day for the new server Half a day for a poor bloodline patch. Not that i complain (only a bit hu ?) but i'm still waiting for a commercial hand from ccp because i really feel like a sheep you'r gathering the whoole on... ______________________________________________________
Telorvech	Posted - 2006.03.02 20:21:00 - [128] Originally by: Pepperami Originally by: TheSickness could someone tell me the GMT time dif for USA Central time plz? Use the forum time as a guide? Eastern Standard Time (US East Coast) is GMT-5 2100 GMT = 1600 EST Central Time = GMT-6 Mountain Time = GMT-7 Pacific Time = GMT-8 Hawaii/Alaska? Beats me...
Crystal Kali	Posted - 2006.03.02 20:21:00 - [129] Seems I was lucky. Logged on as soon as it came back, created this Jin Mei, got into the game and started going about my business without any issues at all (other than no market)... Now waiting to get back on amd give the other new bloodlines a poke. 9PM start gives time for dinner!
Minnow maught	Posted - 2006.03.02 20:24:00 - [130] Originally by: kieron Originally by: MainframeCN Ever thought about testing before implementing changes? Yes, we actually did, even ran some tests on the patch before deploying it. However, think about this. All the testing on Singularity by the QA team and players for the new Bloodlines went fine. The code was imported over to Tranquility, and a skill table was not properly populated. Why, you might ask? Simply because there is no way to completely mirror the TQ code over to Sisi, nor is there a way to duplicate the server load TQ has on a daily basis over to Sisi. Test clients and builds interact differently between the two servers, and there is little that we can do to prevent this. Next time, please take into consideration all the facts before posting out of ignorance. In slightly less technical terms is that like testing on MAC OS and then expecting it to work on Windows XP? Very surprised to learn that the 2 servers are so different (Except for the loads placed on them). Do you actual test the conversion process of code from one version to another (migration testing) ? ^^ Post not meant to be a dig or flame ^^ just really surprised.
Zyxlo	Posted - 2006.03.02 20:26:00 - [131] Edited by: Zyxlo on 02/03/2006 20:28:03 Just seen this in Patch Notes ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Drone bays are no longer accessible in space via a keyboard shortcut. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Why? So we have to fight with ..err... use the 'already present' and 'lovely' option of the overview?
Alastor Farwander	Posted - 2006.03.02 20:26:00 - [132] Originally by: Waldo Barnstormer with an attitude like that, we're probably better off without you.. go play WoW I take it that was supposed to be a flame... You know, in over a year playing WoW, I have never once seen Blizzard deploy a patch, then have to kick everybody out for an indeterminate length of time because problems not found during testing crippled the production environment. Like WoW or dislike it as you see fit, but it seems to me that there's a pretty big difference in patch management here.
Dark Pearl	Posted - 2006.03.02 20:28:00 - [133] i dont now if this has bin mentiond (not gonne read all the jibberis in this treath) setting up escrows dident work i tryed escrow a inplant to a corpy and it just stayd in my hangar greets dp
Darklandz	Posted - 2006.03.02 20:29:00 - [134] Edited by: Darklandz on 02/03/2006 20:31:40 BTW did you notice how well we are updated (tnx kieron) by ccp on the forum, that's a great improvement ! Linkage
Cain Casteel	Posted - 2006.03.02 20:30:00 - [135] only 20 minutes left... Please let us loggin for a few minutes even if its still broken. I'll be happy for the rest of the night and so will others so they can get to safety. Please just a few minutes.... Thanks

kieron	Posted - 2006.03.02 20:32:00 - [136] Originally by: Minnow maught In slightly less technical terms is that like testing on MAC OS and then expecting it to work on Windows XP? Very surprised to learn that the 2 servers are so different (Except for the loads placed on them). Do you actual test the conversion process of code from one version to another (migration testing) ? I would say probably closer to Office SP2 -> SP3 than Mac -> XP and yes, we do perform migration testing. There is a huge difference between the 2 servers, just consider the differences in the database. The markets are slightly different, for example, you can buy pretty much anything in Sisi for 100 ISK to aid in testing, including battleships, dreads and TL2 modules, but god forbid if that code were to accidently port over to TQ in a patch. This is just one reason among many why an identical mirror cannot be made across the servers. Unfortunately, patching is not as easy a process as most people think. kieron Community Manager, EVE Online Come to the Dark Side. We have cookies! YAY Cookies!! -Kaemonn

Grayplate	Posted - 2006.03.02 20:32:00 - [137] Originally by: Alastor Farwander Originally by: Waldo Barnstormer with an attitude like that, we're probably better off without you.. go play WoW I take it that was supposed to be a flame... You know, in over a year playing WoW, I have never once seen Blizzard deploy a patch, then have to kick everybody out for an indeterminate length of time because problems not found during testing crippled the production environment. Like WoW or dislike it as you see fit, but it seems to me that there's a pretty big difference in patch management here. what year did you play WoW in?? Multiple Patches took the entire realms down for 24hrs+, Unexplained sever instability, Overhyped underperforming intial offering, CM/GM's that didnt know their job, didnt do their job or werent even competent enough to NOT PASTE the generic reply in the petition that you opened... I played wow from Beta to about a month ago, either on my own account or a friends (during beta) and only once did I see an announcement about what was causing issues/an apology from anyone at blizzard. Please feel free to tell me when Blizzard ever managed to release a patch that was Bug free, fixed existing bugs and upgraded the game performance.
Brannor McThife	Posted - 2006.03.02 20:33:00 - [138] Originally by: Cain Casteel only 20 minutes left... Please let us loggin for a few minutes even if its still broken. I'll be happy for the rest of the night and so will others so they can get to safety. Please just a few minutes.... Thanks Amen to that... just want to login and change skill... already lost my mission time bonus and will have to finish it some other time...but to be able to login, make sure I'm docked, and change my skill... would be just fine. -G *Dulce bellum inexpertis...*
Brannor McThife	Posted - 2006.03.02 20:35:00 - [139] Originally by: kieron Unfortunately, patching is not as easy a process as most people think. Nah...you guys just haven't learnt about writing proper database scripts... runs and hides away -G *Dulce bellum inexpertis...*
Brad Stone	Posted - 2006.03.02 20:35:00 - [140] Except here in the UK, we've had lunch, hell, we've even had dinner... and this "outside" of which u speak is very very dark and very very cold. We got some of that white stuff.. sn.. sno... thats it... SNOW. Originally by: DaveW If you turn around and face away from your monitor you'll most likely see a door. Walk though it, and then take the next door that opens to the outside. Go thought that and see what you find. With any luck you'll see sunshine, breath some fresh air and maybe talk to a real live person. (you don't need to type to do this) Then, have some lunch and take a nap.... Come back in a couple of hours and everything will be fine...
Chakindra	Posted - 2006.03.02 20:39:00 - [141] Patience, ladies. We'll all get there in the end. It's big patch day, and this is nothing new. It'll be bumpy today and probably for the next couple of days, but then we'll be back to business as usual again. I for one haven't experienced anything that could possibly make me want to quite Eve Online. Signed, Chakindra Co-CEO of Dark Fusion Technologies Fearless Leader of Ebil Minions "Where only DAFT people dare go."
Tim Asamar	Posted - 2006.03.02 20:39:00 - [142] Writing good DB scripts is one thing... but running 2 separate databases (one of them being for testing) is completely different. If you've ever been involved in a database test situation, you'll realize that there are a lot of things that need to be taken into consideration when migrating code. Also, this is not some 10k line program here. It is a distributed program that runs on MANY processors and with MANY database servers. Definately not an easy thing to make seamless.
Grayplate	Posted - 2006.03.02 20:39:00 - [143] Btw Kieron and all the other Gold posters, Bravo on keeping things explained, that was/is one of my biggest gripes about MMO's. You have the info and while you dont have to give it to us, it makes alot of the more vocal people have to hunt harder for something to whine about.
Melkor Bloodaxe	Posted - 2006.03.02 20:40:00 - [144] Edited by: Melkor Bloodaxe on 02/03/2006 20:44:20 Originally by: DaveW If you turn around and face away from your monitor you'll most likely see a door. Walk though it, and then take the next door that opens to the outside. Go thought that and see what you find. With any luck you'll see sunshine, breath some fresh air and maybe talk to a real live person. (you don't need to type to do this) Then, have some lunch and take a nap.... Come back in a couple of hours and everything will be fine... I take a walk outside. Look at the ground and see that it's white and feel that it's cold. I remember something. You can make balls of it Time to dig-up the snowball launcher in my hanger once I can login again. --- 49. Fares Hrym from the east / holding his shield the Mithgard-Worm / in mighty rage scatters the waves / screams the eagle his nib tears the dead / Naglfar loosens. [Voluspa]
Alondriel	Posted - 2006.03.02 20:41:00 - [145] Originally by: TheSickness could someone tell me the GMT time dif for USA Central time plz? GMT -6
Gerintex Mollari	Posted - 2006.03.02 20:41:00 - [146] Originally by: Alastor Farwander You know, in over a year playing WoW, I have never once seen Blizzard deploy a patch, then have to kick everybody out for an indeterminate length of time because problems not found during testing crippled the production environment. Like WoW or dislike it as you see fit, but it seems to me that there's a pretty big difference in patch management here. Then you haven't been playing WoW for over a year. It's happened more than once. I'm on a 14-day trial at the moment as well. I haven't decided if I'm going to buy yet or not, but if I don't, it certainly won't be because of the service or customer support. I've already seen more communication and dev <-> player interaction in three days here than in the last year of playing WoW. I'll take an infrequent, slightly extended downtime due to a patch deployment over a guaranteed 6 hours of downtime every week, which usually gets extended. Not to mention the loot and mail database lag that starts creeping in around Friday so that the server is barely operational when they finally take it down again on Tuesday, rinse and repeat. Or the hundreds of bugs that are discovered and reported while the next patch is on the test realm, and are still present when the patch is released two or three weeks later. WoW is far from the epitome of quality software management and change control. Most of the time, they are downright incompetent, as is their server team.
Alastor Farwander	Posted - 2006.03.02 20:41:00 - [147] Originally by: Heather Skarsgard well, close and uninstall EVE from your computer please, just launch World of Warcraft and stop crying here: EVE is not a game for impatient kids : p[/quote No, it certainly is not. How about a game for adults with kids of our own, demanding jobs, and limited time to play? It seems to have escaped a lot of people that I'm not talking gameplay issues here...I'm talking patch management. After 3 1/2 years in the software industry and nearly 10 in IT, I've learned a few things about the importance of validating an update before you roll it out.
Brannor McThife	Posted - 2006.03.02 20:42:00 - [148] I have one other question... what happened to the old servers? Why weren't they setup as a new test environment? Or even better, a staging platform between SiSi and TQ? Something to test the migration off SiSi on before going live... Just a thought...use it...don't use it... -G PS. Of course, that relies on the fact that you still have the machines... *Dulce bellum inexpertis...*
Samor Madur	Posted - 2006.03.02 20:42:00 - [149] Ok, we all know that we have free expansions and patches. We all know that you guys do the best you can. We all know this the best game in the universe. You guys know, or should know, that most of us are ingnorant in whatever you guys have to do to put things running. We are here to play, and not to understand cpu issues and data base issues and so on. But there is no need to call any player ignorant. Just stick to your stuff and we stick to ours. You have to understand also that we are always eager to play. That's why we pay. And you also have to understand that since RMR we had some major problems with the game. But we all hanged in here. And with new servers... well, everything was awsome. And now a major set back. So, if someone asks if you guys test stuff, it's pure frustration, that's all. I was wondering the same thing myself. Maybe you rush the pacth, maybe something else. All i know is that for a few days EVE was almost perfect, and now i can't play. So, please be patiente with us, as most of us are patiente with you guys. We all want the same thing... a better EVE for all. My point is... don't rush the nest expantion. After you have fix these problems, let us enjoy EVE for a few months without having to go through these issues again. Best of luck to all
RF Hunter	Posted - 2006.03.02 20:44:00 - [150] Edited by: RF Hunter on 02/03/2006 20:44:39 Can't wait to see the new faces and ships. Basically I just can't wait to log on, to see if I've installed the patches correctly. : )

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