Gender isn't binary and neither is sex. We already have a great deal of abilities to personalize characters and change them with re-sculpts.
But something that is kinda annoying is that gender is a binary in EVE and can't be changed after initial creation.

So the idea would be to only select a faction and race in the character creation process and then get a slider between male and female. Depending on the slider the face and body meshes will be changed. Like this people could create a more manly woman, a more feminine man or change their gender.

If a re-sculpt can make you change your bone structure it should be possible to adjust a characters gender. And gender changes and adjustments shouldn't be illegal in the EVE lore either. That's some trans-phobic pile of crap.
That's all. Queue the flames.

I must say, you have done a remarkable job of modifying your avatar to appear more like a transgendered person.

From a Dev time and effort stand point: put it at the bottom of the list.

well considering in the real world you are either male or female and not changeable (no "sex change" operations do not infact change their sex, you cant get a male to all of the sudden be able to give birth or a female all of the sudden be able to make viable sperm no matter how many operations you undergo), making avatars be male or female and not changeable is just fine. humanity in general doesnt like you cross dressers and im just fine with the lack of cross dress abilities in eve.

well considering in the real world you are either male or female and not changeable (no "sex change" operations do not infact change their sex, you cant get a male to all of the sudden be able to give birth or a female all of the sudden be able to make viable sperm no matter how many operations you undergo), making avatars be male or female and not changeable is just fine. humanity in general doesnt like you cross dressers and im just fine with the lack of cross dress abilities in eve.

Just a little reminder to keep it civil people. Keep RL out of this discussion as much as possible.
As said by another poster, this is a SF game. In New Eden tampering with DNA is trivial, although in the past some parts of humanity have gone a bit to far.....


Edit: I also deleted an of topic post. ISD Ezwal.

Gender isn't binary and neither is sex. We already have a great deal of abilities to personalize characters and change them with re-sculpts.
But something that is kinda annoying is that gender is a binary in EVE and can't be changed after initial creation.

So the idea would be to only select a faction and race in the character creation process and then get a slider between male and female. Depending on the slider the face and body meshes will be changed. Like this people could create a more manly woman, a more feminine man or change their gender.

If a re-sculpt can make you change your bone structure it should be possible to adjust a characters gender. And gender changes and adjustments shouldn't be illegal in the EVE lore either. That's some trans-phobic pile of crap.
That's all. Queue the flames.

So you want to interject reality (or some people's views of reality) into a science fiction video game. Did you ever stop to think that within the universe of EVE the thought of transgender/multigender/wtf-ever never cropped up? That such a society might be perfectly fine with there being just 2 clearly delineated genders? You want **** on your dude? Or some wedding tackle on your chick? Photoshop is --> way.

As a gender neutral trans-niggeress I agree with this message wholeheartedly.

Wow...that one is gonna hit the word filter soon I bet. ROFL.

As a gender neutral trans-BLACKPERSON I agree with this message wholeheartedly.

can I be a transgender ttt grifer who identifies as a monster truck?

*tips fedora*

CCP obviously has no love for us Trans-racial people. It is a sad day when I can be oppressed on the internet forums which I call home.

hey ISD team

check my dubs

CSM should endorse this IMO.

couldn't you fix this with a few lines of RP text in your bio?

Exactly my first thought; what would a transgender avatar look like anyway, because it's not like you can undress them to see if they have all the right bits and pieces, who's to say whats under there

Honestly I'd just like to change my gender. But if we're already thinking about implementing a system that people can change the gender of their characters why not go a step further and add this?

And thanks ISD Ezwal :p I already thought that something like this would attract trolls like flies. It's just not something that a lot of people think about or even want to think about. Doesn't mean that other people won't or don't.

Also El Space Mariachi gender nor sex are binary. There are a million resources, studies and books on that subject online. Educate yourself.

While I respect your opinion, I don't see the relevance to gameplay. Mind shedding some light on it?

Only if I can make my character like my fursona

I fully support this idea as long as I can be a dolphin

As further development of though:

why i cant select religion of charecter? And also i can select how strong religion in he.
Add quadrangle with labels Islam/Christianity/buddhism/Judaism about its vertices, and via red dot i can select % religiosity in each religion and absolute value via slider near quadrangle.

I would vastly prefer if Social Justice bait was not forcefully injected into EVE, thanks.

Just remember for every 100 social justice warriors there are thousands of people who literally don't give a **** or explicitly disagree with the entire concept.

This. Just remember for every 100 social justice warriors there are thousands of people who literally don't give a **** or explicitly disagree with the entire concept.

Just a little reminder to keep it civil people. Keep RL out of this discussion as much as possible.
As said by another poster, this is a SF game. In New Eden tampering with DNA is trivial, although in the past some parts of humanity have gone a bit to far.....


Edit: I also deleted an of topic post. ISD Ezwal.

While you're at it, remember that CCP Seagull is one of those "social justice warriors"--which is, despite your best efforts, actually a flattering description. Instead of just being people who'd like some extra customization in the (already mostly redundant) character creator which is 100% in line with in-game lore, they are Fearless Warriors for Great Justice!

People in New Eden, most notably the Gallente, have been mucking around with their DNA for a very long time now, with the result that all Gallente are more or less trangendered.

But then, there are people who don't care about the lore.

While you're at it, remember that CCP Seagull is one of those "social justice warriors"--which is, despite your best efforts, actually a flattering description. Instead of just being people who'd like some extra customization in the (already mostly redundant) character creator which is 100% in line with in-game lore, they are Fearless Warriors for Great Justice!

People in New Eden, most notably the Gallente, have been mucking around with their DNA for a very long time now, with the result that all Gallente are more or less trangendered.

But then, there are people who don't care about the lore.

Wait, how is sex not binary. I mean, sure you can do whatever you want with your sexuality. Nonetheless I'm not aware about this third human genotype. Unless you're saying the difference between a man body from a woman's body is merely a difference of degree in organs development. That is a biology subject I am sure everyone can be more educated about. Please explain.

EDIT: Please don't link anything, just give a small brief from your own pov. I'm not that interested. It's just that you can't simply throw a concept like that in a game forum and expect people to dig through it.

I would vastly prefer if Social Justice bait was not forcefully injected into EVE, thanks.

I have to agree.
I have no problem with gender sliders in games (Dark Souls, Saints Row, etc); it's nothing new.
But I don't see a reason to waste development time on it if it's not already in the game. It's very much "and the kitchen sink of political correctness" which we don't need.

Besides, maybe genolution is just bigoted and only provides male and female clone technology in order to homogenize the universe. History has seen stranger things.

Now now...did I say anywhere that this should be on top of CCPs development list? I made this thread to see what people thought about the idea.
And considering that CCP announced a few months back that their "Team Avatar" was gonna get assembled again and work on new features, why not bring this up? If the whole avatar and Space Sims thing is gonna be rethought and partially redone anyways, why not add this?

Team avatar was assembled specifically to work on gameplay related to avatars, not necessarily for vanity/character design features. Which, if you followed the thread in GD, was pushed back for at least a few years.

As I understand it, the big difficulty presented here is the same reason we don't have cross-dressing; the clothing was never designed for it in the first places. The meshes don't mesh together correctly, and fixing it could be quite a challenge. It may seems as simple as "combining male and female attributes and clothing", but the character engine just wasn't designed with that in mind.

Personally, I want to see more of anything Incarna related, but I think it's a bit pointless to work on more customizable avatars until we can actually do something with them. I'd like to see them at least go back and finish establishments first.

I'm not against this idea. I just feel it should be fairly low-priority. (Then again, CCP has shown their ability to work on "impossible, low priority" projects, when they released missile launcher models on quite a few ships that didn't even have graphical hardpoints at the time.

let us have sex changes in station or have sex bound to clone so you can die in a male clone and wake up in a female clone or what ever :P

Heck, I just want to have naked avatars so I can love my girls even more.

Edit: Plex for naked? *nod nod*

Agreed. We should have the option to not wear pants. IT'S DISCRIMINATION AGAINST PANTIES TO WEAR PANTS!

Gender isn't binary and neither is sex. We already have a great deal of abilities to personalize characters and change them with re-sculpts.
But something that is kinda annoying is that gender is a binary in EVE and can't be changed after initial creation.

So the idea would be to only select a faction and race in the character creation process and then get a slider between male and female. Depending on the slider the face and body meshes will be changed. Like this people could create a more manly woman, a more feminine man or change their gender.

If a re-sculpt can make you change your bone structure it should be possible to adjust a characters gender. And gender changes and adjustments shouldn't be illegal in the EVE lore either. That's some trans-phobic pile of crap.
That's all. Queue the flames.

I don't think we really need cross-dressing silliness in the game.

An Abaddon can fit shield extenders, cross-dressing is already in the game.

Fitting shield extenders to an abaddon is pretty ******* dumb. Are you suggesting cross-dressers are "shield fit abaddon"- dumb?

Fitting shield extenders to an abaddon is pretty ******* dumb. Are you suggesting cross-dressers are "shield fit abaddon"- dumb?

To be honest, I'd rather have a picture of my ship as my avatar anyway.

Gender isn't binary and neither is sex. We already have a great deal of abilities to personalize characters and change them with re-sculpts.
But something that is kinda annoying is that gender is a binary in EVE and can't be changed after initial creation.

So the idea would be to only select a faction and race in the character creation process and then get a slider between male and female. Depending on the slider the face and body meshes will be changed. Like this people could create a more manly woman, a more feminine man or change their gender.

If a re-sculpt can make you change your bone structure it should be possible to adjust a characters gender. And gender changes and adjustments shouldn't be illegal in the EVE lore either. That's some trans-phobic pile of crap.
That's all. Queue the flames.

Honestly I'd just like to change my gender. But if we're already thinking about implementing a system that people can change the gender of their characters why not go a step further and add this?

And thanks ISD Ezwal :p I already thought that something like this would attract trolls like flies. It's just not something that a lot of people think about or even want to think about. Doesn't mean that other people won't or don't.

Also El Space Mariachi gender nor sex are binary. There are a million resources, studies and books on that subject online. Educate yourself.

I get that this is a big deal to some people, but those people need to realize that the vast majority of EVE players (and likely designers) think in terms of a male/female dichotomy, and that the tiny minority who actually care about this probably shouldn't expect much on this front. Personally I've never played a game with any transgender character creation options, and expecting EVE to take that leap when it is virtually unheard of in the industry is unrealistic. Avatars in EVE are kind of an after-thought anyway.

edit: also, I think teacher has a pretty good point...we'd be seeing a lot more characters with boobs, skirts and epic moustaches/beards than actual serious trans toons.

Plus, it's not really something most of us want to advertise, you know? Why play a "transgender" character, when I can just play a "fully female" one?

As further development of though:

why i cant select religion of charecter? And also i can select how strong religion in he.
Add quadrangle with labels Islam/Christianity/buddhism/Judaism about its vertices, and via red dot i can select % religiosity in each religion and absolute value via slider near quadrangle.

Sidenote: I've heard of people successfully petitioning for a gender/name change on the grounds that they're trans and made their character pre-transition but I've never tried myself so I have no idea if it's just rumor. Can we get a GM to confirm whether this is or is not possible?

Exactly my first thought; what would a transgender avatar look like anyway, because it's not like you can undress them to see if they have all the right bits and pieces, who's to say whats under there

Wait, how is sex not binary.

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With our 2 step program, all your questions will be answered!

That being said, I would love to be able to resculpt gender on my character. I have a 23 million skill point one that I can't bring myself to play because I'm sick of pretending to be something I'm not. Renaming and resculpting their appearance including gender would allow me to keep going on a character that I put over a year of effort into before I started transition.

Beyond that, I'd most like see them add a wider variety of body types to the sculpting, or allow some kind of multi-player interaction with avatars. We can make characters with scars, wrinkles, tattoos, piercings, and emaciated bodies. Obviously every capsuleer isn't the epitome of physical perfection. Why, then do we limit body type to thin or thinner. I haven't been less than 200 lb (90 kilo) since middle school. I'm not asking to play a 500 lb (225 kilo) 4 foot (1.2 meter) character, but it would be nice to make someone who had a little extra weight. Like many of us.

I'd want the 500lb and 4 ft character extreme options. But I've no doubt quite a few people would like re-sculpts, and since its not a name and therefore set in stone, it should be changeable. For a price, of course. Plastic surgery is common enough now, and its not like genetic manipulation that got the jovians into such a bad state, its just different physical features.

As for Endocrinological special cases, and I don't mean to sound insensitive, but isn't this a role playing game? I believe that in Canada you have to assume the gender role you wish to switch to for at least a year before you get to go under the knife or get hormone therapy ( if the state is going to pay for it). Now you play your avatar, but unless you're realy,really into role play, the pictures mean nothing, and your actions mean everything. If it really is about the role play, can't you create another character to be, and just use your uncomfortable alt as a minion, albeit a skilled and talented minion?

I resisted getting an avatar pic when they went to the incarna system, but eventually they forced me to make one before I could actually play the game, otherwise I'd probably be the mysterious default shadowy outline.

Now do you mean trans?
Because if so then one the person is probably going to make their body correct on the first time
and 2 trans has a heavy causation in the amylgalda.
Meaning if you shove a male brain scan into a female clone, you are going to get a nutcase as everything is wrong.
A trans has a wrong body in relationship to their brain structures (subject to change when science lets us tweak those brain structures to match genetic code)

*snip*