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Battleships are not everything

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darth solo	Posted - 2003.09.05 10:28:00 - [1] Ok, just thought id make a comment on this matter. I have been asked many times in-game, "how close are you to a battleship"?. It seems not about haw many BP you have, or how many skill ponits you have. I personally dont really like working hard when i get home from work, and would prefer to just mess about in eve, rather than have to work my butt off. Is having a battleship that important?, i enjoy eve, and dont really mind if i never have one. My point is, that that your success seems to be measured on when you get into one of these ships. A well known pirate recently commented on this issue, by saying he cant believe why everyone isnt in battleships by now. Dont get me wrong, i would like to have the money to buy one, but i really do think my enjoyment of the game would deminish. i dont envy the worry you guys must have about losing your ship to ctds and pc pirates. They do look amazing though, and well done to everyone whom has 1. I do appreciate the hard work that you have put into this game, be it either pirating/trading/mining.
Shock	Posted - 2003.09.05 10:33:00 - [2] In this game have a bigger ship sadly is in most cases the answer EW being an exception. Or when the smaller ships truly come in massive numbers (which is not possible and should not be necessary) It's like once you've obtained the biggest sword you no longer have to be worried for a knife in the back. --- soonÖ
Severe McCald	Posted - 2003.09.05 10:54:00 - [3] I agree. I have been playing about three months now, but I don't like mining and have been doing missions/pirate hunting and exploring. This is not the way to make big isk (at least early on - NPC hunting in a Merlin, takes ages to kill 30k rats). However, the pace seems to be getting quicker as I have risen up the agent ladder and grown skills. With lvl 4 agents, the rewards are likely to be 200k to 400k per mission, plus the additional services can give one an edge. Long term I think this route may prove to be best for the solo player. Anyway, back to main point, I would like to fly a battleship at some point, particularly if I get involved in PvP, but I'm in no hurry. SM And Moses was content to dwell with the man:and he gave Moses Zipporah his daughter. And she bare him a son, and he called his name Gershom:for he said, I have been a stranger in a strange land.
s0cks	Posted - 2003.09.05 11:11:00 - [4] Edited by: s0cks on 05/09/2003 11:11:27 Edited by: s0cks on 05/09/2003 11:11:13 Battleships aren't everything. Story why: - Yesterday 2 of my corp members (and me) went into 0.0 space in frigates (yes just frigates). We came across a Dominix BS and started to attack. One frigate was quickly destroyed by the wasps and me and the other warped out (the Dominix guy laughed his head off). We then decided to warp back in for a laugh, and to our delight his drones were not out. Instantly are frigates jammed and scrambled him, and in no time at all he was actually down to 50% health (amazed how quick) and into his structure wen some1 came into the system and responded to his cries for help. If that other BS hadnt of showed up then that Dominix WOULD be dead. This is just one story, we have made other BS's run. And tbh its so much more fun to bring down big ships in frigates, and if you loose a frigate then give a s**t, they are cheapo. Other things rumoured for nxt patch: - large turret tracking speed decreased - new hitpoint radius (the bigger the radius the easier to hit the ship - so BS's will be easy to hit as they are a big target) - elite frigates (5 to 6 med slots ) So don't worry about getting one, i don't.
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2003.09.05 11:13:00 - [5] Edited by: Joshua Calvert on 05/09/2003 11:14:34 Quote: Other things rumoured for nxt patch: - large turret tracking speed decreased - new hitpoint radius (the bigger the radius the easier to hit the ship - so BS's will be easy to hit as they are a big target) - elite frigates (5 to 6 med slots ) I quote from the current patch log: Quote: Tracking speed of large and medium turrets is a bit higher now so that people won't have as much problem hitting other ships within their optimal range. This mostly goes for artilleries and railguns. Ahem, if you read the current patch log you might find that medium/large turrets are all getting a tracking speed BOOST alongwith projectiles getting a damage increase. Still, I think elite frigates will ROCK when they give them a little more cpu/powergrid. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Tehel Necrona	Posted - 2003.09.05 11:18:00 - [6] It's not that Cruisers and Frigates are not capable of taking down a bs, it's just most people assume their not capable of doing it and as my frigate flying friend correctly demonstrated it is quite possible, aint that right s0cks :p? -Necro
Asmodia	Posted - 2003.09.05 11:20:00 - [7] i agree with u. Battleships are not all. Most Battleships are anyway a waste of money. I only can laugh about ppl buying a Dominix or other junk. Most players buy a BS and think 'now i have power', but most doesnt know to use them in battle. A Blackbird can easy scramble down the Targeting range of any Battleship. We tested it on an Ammageedon . This guy was only a flying Target in his 'mighty 'Battleship. :D ------------------------------------------------ CEO of Spectre Syndicate - Curse Alliance ------------------------------------------------
s0cks	Posted - 2003.09.05 11:21:00 - [8] Yep, so many people don't realize wot a frigate can do. And sorry for the tracking speed mistake. If they are getting a boost then, damn. But with the new radius implementation its gonna be harder to hit a frigate anyway.
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2003.09.05 11:27:00 - [9] Quote: i agree with u. Battleships are not all. Most Battleships are anyway a waste of money. I only can laugh about ppl buying a Dominix or other junk. Most players buy a BS and think 'now i have power', but most doesnt know to use them in battle. A Blackbird can easy scramble down the Targeting range of any Battleship. We tested it on an Ammageedon . This guy was only a flying Target in his 'mighty 'Battleship. :D I used to laugh at Dominix too until you realise just how many heavy drones it can hold. It's a question of how you use your ship, really. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
s0cks	Posted - 2003.09.05 11:52:00 - [10] Heavy drones are evil. They eat my frigate for lunch. Not even lunch... more of a light snack - say a packet of wine gums or something.
Andrew Jade	Posted - 2003.09.05 12:06:00 - [11] Drones eat cruiser for lunch, so yes frigates are a light side order :) ogres will take down a cruiser shields in about 10 secs max :) hehe i love my heavy drones. -AJ- WTB: Large faction smartbomb with good range. Top isk paid.
Valeria	Posted - 2003.09.05 12:14:00 - [12] After I bought my first Bship for 70 million, I made the money back in 3 (maybe 4, don't recall) days of chainspawning. I think I even used standard 250mm rails to begin with. That's sick. Your 425mm Prototype I Gauss Gun perfectly strikes some nublar, wrecking for 1155.0 damage.
Soul Reaver	Posted - 2003.09.05 12:21:00 - [13] Hi All Well I have had my Current Scorp about 2 months now and have never lost it yet. Although I have come mighty close a few times I have a spare in my hanger and an apoc on the way. Am I bored because I have one of the best ships with the best rare loadouts?? NO not at all in fact quite the opposite. I schemed bloody ahrd and worked nealry as hard to get it all and enjoy them very much. From a PvP perspective I can enjoy the thrill of going up against superior numbers and cutting it fine etc etc. I never worry about losing it! Either to a superior player,numbers or game faults. its a game I live with it. I am always playing with different loadouts of my 8 med slots and this is fun in off itself. You make your own fun in this game and if your only fun is accumulating bigger and better stuff then I guess that ends when you have it all. Bit like life really!!! Millionaires do commit suicide you know because they are bored and or sad with their lot!! PvP and battleship ownership is not about loudouts and weapons its about a combination of skill and tactics and weapons and loadouts. I can believe that most players have not got one as mine with its present rares would cost well over 100 mill to replace. This is a lot to lose for a player in terms of hours put into the game, so I can also well understand how many of them are kept mothballed for fear of loss!! Be you a Pirate or a Simple Alt creeper! Sooner or later you'll dance with Soul Reaver and His Amazing Underpants Currently chasing Lianhaun
Bad Harlequin	Posted - 2003.09.05 13:27:00 - [14] the reasons people have the idea that bships having nothing to fear from frigates is that the first people to get battleships (that the general public saw regularly) were pirates - who had no other battleships to fight. They correctly determined that L guns don't hit squat when aiming at someone's AB-equipped frigate charging for a gate to run a blockade :). And L guns were screwy in general. So the lack of a need for L guns at all and pther battleships to fight means the earliest bships in the game were large gun platforms in cruiser/frigatekiller setups. If, somewhere, someone had assembeled a strike force centered around even 1 battleship outfitted like a battleship, those blockades would have been in trouble; and, of course, now that bships are more common they're no longer set up exlusively with cruiser-crushing in mind. Going anywhere alone is playing rock/paper/scissor but always using the same one . You'll defeat the one you're set up to beat, have a pretty even fight with your equal, and get creamed by t'wrong one. Either that, or you hedge your bets and spread your equipment out so much that you aren't terribly effective in any one area. So... i guess my point is, by all means solo to a battleship if you can, but don't trade or sell your cruiser(s) to get one. Keep a ship or three in reserve, and keep your battleship in nice safe areas until you get the hang of it. Don't volunteer to help break any blockades with it the same week you get it . You are in a maze of twisty little asteroids, all alike.
Daesdemona	Posted - 2003.09.05 13:28:00 - [15] The Megathron has the sexiest hull of all the ships out there. That is why I own one Period. ----------------------------------------------- Bart: "Do you even have a job any more?" Homer: "I think its obvious that I Don't" -----------------------------------------------
Jash Illian	Posted - 2003.09.05 14:00:00 - [16] Quote: The Megathron has the sexiest hull of all the ships out there. That is why I own one Period. Oddly enough the ship I think says "Battleship" to me the most when I look at it isn't one: the Mammoth. Megathron is just a mishaped Rifter I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
Daesdemona	Posted - 2003.09.05 14:04:00 - [17] the mammoth looks like a hair clipper ----------------------------------------------- Bart: "Do you even have a job any more?" Homer: "I think its obvious that I Don't" -----------------------------------------------
Aleena TheGhost	Posted - 2003.09.05 14:12:00 - [18] I agree with Sock's comments. Having a BS is fine but I think people tend to underestimate the value of frigates in combat. A group of 3-4 frigates with good pilots can easily take on and defeat a BS. It's just a question of tactics. Frigates obtain a target lock very quickly (i.e. 3-4 seconds max, not counting skill bonuses) and this is a big edge. It gives the frigate pilots the opportunity to ECM, Warp Scramble and or Stasis Web their opponent before they obtain a target lock. Also, most frigates get a bonus to weapon damage, which helps out. You still have to remember that your dealing with small light ships but they are generally faster. Hit and run is your best friend and if you use good tactics you can easily take on larger ships. Another thing to remember is that frigates are cheap to replace, so there is not much concern if you lose one. When they add the missile fixes in the next patch and release the advanced frigates, I think peopleÆs opinions of them will change. -Aleena
Sarkos	Posted - 2003.09.05 14:23:00 - [19] I agree Jash, though to me, the Tempest gives the best feel for a battleship. I love my Tempest and the way it looks. As for Frigates, well a Webfiler and large smartbomb keep them away, as well as drone defence. With a +2 LADAR backup in the low slot, a Frigate can not scramble me either, well, not easily anyway. Just my opinion, the Tempest is the best. :) Sarkos - Oracle Either free the slaves or we will come and get them.
Daesdemona	Posted - 2003.09.05 14:25:00 - [20] the tempest looks like its made of legos. ----------------------------------------------- Bart: "Do you even have a job any more?" Homer: "I think its obvious that I Don't" -----------------------------------------------
Snowman	Posted - 2003.09.05 14:27:00 - [21] Quote: i agree with u. Battleships are not all. Most Battleships are anyway a waste of money. I only can laugh about ppl buying a Dominix or other junk. Actually at the moment the "waste of money" Dominix is better for PvP than the Megathron is.
Asmodia	Posted - 2003.09.05 15:00:00 - [22] Quote: Quote: i agree with u. Battleships are not all. Most Battleships are anyway a waste of money. I only can laugh about ppl buying a Dominix or other junk. Actually at the moment the "waste of money" Dominix is better for PvP than the Megathron is. were i said Megathron is a good ship ???? :D:D:D:D ------------------------------------------------ CEO of Spectre Syndicate - Curse Alliance ------------------------------------------------
Agent Shield	Posted - 2003.09.05 15:24:00 - [23] I like my Battleship. Everyone in our Corp has an Armageddon. We find they make the best mining ships out there. Agent Shield
The Wretch	Posted - 2003.09.05 15:30:00 - [24] Battleships own all and they are not that hard to get. The only way a bship is going to loose to a lesser class ship is due to an unskilled player or poor layout. The best chance a cruiser (not even going to mention frigates - a poor man excuse ship) against a bship is using large turret tracking speeds against them. If you can manage to get in close enough and have an orbit path over 350 m/s, the large turrets are going to miss quite a bit. Throw on a tracking disrupter to help offset any tracking modules the bship pilot may be using. Given equal skilled pilots and good layouts, you little ships pilot will simply be turned into biomass everytime. There is a reason why cruisers are 5-7 million and bships are 50-100 million. But this does prove one point - expendability is much greater for a cruiser allowing for greater risk. imo of coarse The Wretch Cyberdyne Systems CEO
Daesdemona	Posted - 2003.09.05 15:37:00 - [25] the real problem is that there are not enough noobs willing to stay that way. If it was interestign to play very sporadically as a newb, the game would have bships only for people that play all day and newbs playing in frigates or cruisers, as it is now, either youplay a LOT or you don't at all to justify the expense, the best way to solve this, make the game free (after initial payment) for frigate owners, and make them pay if they want to buy/trade/use anything from the cruiser class. ----------------------------------------------- Bart: "Do you even have a job any more?" Homer: "I think its obvious that I Don't" -----------------------------------------------
Jade Constantine	Posted - 2003.09.05 16:28:00 - [26] Interesting discussion all round; From personal perspective I think the EW and tracking angle does provide balance and dynamism to conflict, certainly means its not a simple progress of smaller to bigger and redundancy of frigates and then cruisers as people gear up. It does require a lot of thought to build the sexiest ride and there is no real perfect solution. The absolute draw of this game for me is that the strategic nature of warfare makes all ship classes meaningful; in a large regional conflict there are places for commerce-raiders, hit and run squads, ships of the line, and wide range of specialisations. The variety and intelligence of the challenge is superb, and raises the game well ahead of the simple pvp best ship owns paradigm. Of battleships; I still feel as Jade I am only just qualified to fly one to full effectiveness. Though I'm a week 3 character and have quite a lot of skills, I do feel the lack of specialisation in pure combat. I've gone down the route of all-rounder, and taken all three gun types, drones and missiles, partly as insurance against the whims of fate (and patching) and partly for variety and the fact I love flying different ships. Downside of this is that without lev 4+ gunnery general skills and large turrets, I do feel I am sometimes letting the ship down through lack of piloting and combat skills. Still, the length of time high level training takes does need we are always progressing and always have something more to aim for. Re the loss of ships; battleships are painful to recover from, but its pain that teaches us to be more careful and better combatants in the future. 100m isk is significant in anyone's wallet ;) Re looks, I am torn between Armaggedons which do look absolutely lovely (and thanks Wretch, I'll try your config next) and Scorpions, which really remind me of a midway Battlecruiser class. My Scopion "little earthquakes" is a lovely runabout. Fast and nimble, and very capable besides. And all those running lights make it look like an amusement park in space! Anyhow ... love and peace m'dears JF Public Forum
Daesdemona	Posted - 2003.09.05 16:32:00 - [27] Edited by: Daesdemona on 05/09/2003 16:32:31 are you from the south? just an innocent question ----------------------------------------------- Bart: "Do you even have a job any more?" Homer: "I think its obvious that I Don't" -----------------------------------------------
Rase	Posted - 2003.09.05 16:32:00 - [28] Just to comment on 2 assertions made... 1) The scorpion is the best bship...gimme a phuggin break...I think your are whacking off to hard to your med slots. The only thing worse than incompetence is the illusion of ability. 2) The armageddon is the best miner....wrong again...may be #3 or #4...but clearly you must choose either upped drones or upped turrets The Apoc has 8 turrets and 1500 drones The Dom has 6 turrets and 5000 drones The best is one of them period Add in that the most drones a person can control is 8 or 9... and it becomes clear that anything beyond 1500 drones right now is useless vanity
s0cks	Posted - 2003.09.05 17:17:00 - [29] Quote: Battleships own all and they are not that hard to get. The only way a bship is going to loose to a lesser class ship is due to an unskilled player or poor layout. The best chance a cruiser (not even going to mention frigates - a poor man excuse ship) against a bship is using large turret tracking speeds against them. If you can manage to get in close enough and have an orbit path over 350 m/s, the large turrets are going to miss quite a bit. Throw on a tracking disrupter to help offset any tracking modules the bship pilot may be using. Given equal skilled pilots and good layouts, you little ships pilot will simply be turned into biomass everytime. There is a reason why cruisers are 5-7 million and bships are 50-100 million. But this does prove one point - expendability is much greater for a cruiser allowing for greater risk. imo of coarse Hah, what an uneducated reply, sorry but it doesnt matter at all what layout you have on your battleship. You can't shoot or launch missiles/drones if your jammed, PERIOD. Do you think my corp would fly frigates to fight a battleship with just speed and guns, we would quite rightly get raped. If your fighting with a frigate force you need EW, even if its just weapon disrupters as you said. Please don't just dismiss frigates - u'd be surprised.
The Wretch	Posted - 2003.09.05 18:45:00 - [30] Edited by: The Wretch on 05/09/2003 18:51:27 "Do you think my corp would fly frigates to fight a battleship with just speed and guns" Do you think I would fly battleship to fight a "ship x" with just speed and guns and no sensor bootsers? Like I said 1v1, pilot to pilot skill, battle ship wins. Sorry, hate to bust the poor mans pipe dream. Oh yeah - put a MWD on a raven and set for a 10 km orbit around a target ship. The raven can just lav missles and that target that ship will miss just about every shot made at the raven. Even with high turret speeds. It's not just figates and cruisers that can play the tracking game. Going to be very interesting with the upcoming missle changes. The Wretch Cyberdyne Systems CEO

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