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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Dreez
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Posted - 2006.03.04 10:58:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Dreez on 04/03/2006 10:59:25
There has been thread after thread about blasters being broke,
veteran players using math has showed us again & again that due
to them being broke, our beloved blasterthron cannot be used as
effective as ment to.
Yet, after 2 years we still have no change, eventhou we have
a signed thread, one of the biggest ones, where mr:TomB clearly
stated that L-Blasters were broke... no change.
IŠve seen one thread about the SAC having issues needing
a fix, and bang.. its in the bloodpatch and it didnt even take
6 months.
So im asking you. Whats the frikkin problem ?. Why is it that
a ship thats been in this game for less then a year gets fixed
"right away" while guns that are broke has yet to be fixed
after more then 2 years !?.
IŠve heard rumours that you, the Devs, dont plan on fixing the
L-Blasters before kalipatch. How can you justify your actions
fixing all those things and not spending a minute thinking
of a fix to our guns.
Please resize your signature graphic to be smaller than 24,000 bytes in filesize - Jacques
Current Location: In my Blasterthron chasing TomB with a blowtorch
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Laythun
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Posted - 2006.03.04 11:01:00 -
[2]
 Originally by: Dreez
IŠve seen one thread about the SAC having issues needing
a fix, and bang.. its in the bloodpatch and it didnt even take
6 months.
this fix was infinately easier than rebalancing the whole of hybrid blasters
ISD leave my sig alone for the last fking time. you screwed up my sig so face the consequences. |
Nafri
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Posted - 2006.03.04 11:03:00 -
[3]
balancing blasters is hard, cause even with them, most of the gallente ships are superior in PvP. Boosting blasters, without testing the ships will produce ships like the gankadeddon, and one of the worst PvP experiences ever.
And see it like this, the typhoon is **** for years too, and nothing changed yet. Howitzers sucks for everything execept fleet battles and empiresniping, no fix yet.
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Dreez
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Posted - 2006.03.04 11:07:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Laythun
this fix was infinately easier than rebalancing the whole of hybrid blasters
That is a very poor excuse, fixing things faster because they
are easier to fix. If you think like that, then we will never
see the issue with blasters being solved because we got small
things needing attention all the time.
The issue with L-blasters has been on the ladder of "fix these things"
for over 2 years now and should be in the top spot of the "to do list" imo
when it comes to modules & ship balance.
Please resize your signature graphic to be smaller than 24,000 bytes in filesize - Jacques
Current Location: In my Blasterthron chasing TomB with a blowtorch
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Waxau
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Posted - 2006.03.04 11:17:00 -
[5]
omg mate take a chill pill. its a game lol. Its easy to change one part of a ships bonuses - but to understand, let alone edit the whole of the large hybrids is tough work. It needs manpower to do that, aswell as time money and effort. 2 years ago there werent the subsribers to pay for it. You can bet ure ass that they're on it right now, but you moaning constantly just emphasises the bad part of eve. Let the GMs and DEVs do their job, and go play on eve. It will be fixed when they can. They cant fix it any faster than they can, so give it a rest.
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Elve Sorrow
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Posted - 2006.03.04 11:22:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Dreez
IŠve seen one thread about the SAC having issues needing
a fix, and bang.. its in the bloodpatch and it didnt even take
6 months.
This 'fix' didnt fix the Sacrilege atall. It nerfed it, if anything. And btw, incase you missed it, there's been threads about it since about the day HACs got introduced.
/Elve |
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TomB
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Posted - 2006.03.04 12:32:00 -
[7]
Blasters are getting looked into for next patch, there was not enough time to get them fixed for the Blood patch. Aiming for tests to start on SiSi in the upcoming week, you will see a post from a dev once it's on.
. |
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R31D
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Posted - 2006.03.04 12:32:00 -
[8]
I think it's also because there are still a large number of pilots still flying the Blasterthron and so it must be 'viable' and not totally, hideously broken and therefore CCP decide to leave it (at least until they can work a proper fix that won't make blasters overpowered)
Free bumpage for all |
dabster
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Posted - 2006.03.04 12:33:00 -
[9]
Is the Phoon-fix coming along with blasters?
plsplsplspls?
___________________________
Brutors Rule!
My Eve-vids; Click. |
Goberth Ludwig
|
Posted - 2006.03.04 12:33:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Goberth Ludwig on 04/03/2006 12:34:04
Wow ! Phoon too?
edit: lol
- Gob (also known as Admiral Goberius) |
Hugh Ruka
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Posted - 2006.03.04 12:34:00 -
[11]
Originally by: TomB
Blasters are getting looked into for next patch, there was not enough time to get them fixed for the Blood patch. Aiming for tests to start on SiSi in the upcoming week, you will see a post from a dev once it's on.
TomB sticky and lock this please, so ppl won't ask again an add other requests to this one when they see a dev response.
------------------------------
Removed due to offensive content - Laqum
I realy liked my signature. Oh well ... |
zoturi
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Posted - 2006.03.04 12:35:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Nafri
And see it like this, the typhoon is **** for years too, and nothing changed yet. Howitzers sucks for everything execept fleet battles and empiresniping, no fix yet.
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Grimpak
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Posted - 2006.03.04 12:42:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Grimpak on 04/03/2006 12:44:36
Originally by: TomB
Blasters are getting looked into for next patch, there was not enough time to get them fixed for the Blood patch. Aiming for tests to start on SiSi in the upcoming week, you will see a post from a dev once it's on.
please include the AF re-balancing aswell.
edit: oh and the minmatar carrier thingy too
----------------
Originally by: Abdalion
Shoot him ingame if you don't like this person. If you do like him, go mine veldspar with him.
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Goberth Ludwig
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Posted - 2006.03.04 12:45:00 -
[14]
yay *\o/*
- Gob (also known as Admiral Goberius) |
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TomB
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Posted - 2006.03.04 12:45:00 -
[15]
Blasters, Phoon, AF's and more. It has started, once it's in testing you will be notified with a shiny sticky post in this forum channel.
. |
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Grimpak
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Posted - 2006.03.04 12:45:00 -
[16]
Originally by: TomB
Blasters, Phoon, AF's and more. It has started, once it's in testing you will be notified with a shiny sticky post in this forum channel.
\o/
----------------
Originally by: Abdalion
Shoot him ingame if you don't like this person. If you do like him, go mine veldspar with him.
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Rexy
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Posted - 2006.03.04 12:51:00 -
[17]
dont forget all the silly non caldari bombers \o/
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JC Weyland
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Posted - 2006.03.04 12:52:00 -
[18]
When people are asking I might aswell.
Will there (ever) be a propulsion overhaul and will interceptors recive a Role bonus / changed bonuses?
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Forsch
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Posted - 2006.03.04 12:53:00 -
[19]
Talk about professional topic hijacking here. 
________________________________________________________________
- Forsch
Defender of the empire
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madaluap
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Posted - 2006.03.04 12:57:00 -
[20]
Originally by: JC Weyland
When people are asking I might aswell.
Will there (ever) be a propulsion overhaul and will interceptors recive a Role bonus / changed bonuses?
wait! first the real broken stuff not the "imo broken stuff".
so first that blasterthron and phoon (really really feel sorry for minmatar, its such a crap hybrid ship )
_________________________________________________
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ChalSto
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Posted - 2006.03.04 13:07:00 -
[21]
I remember a song, that fits to the blaster-issue:
"ItŠs been a long road......getting from there to here...."
Finaly......thx forward 
Dreez current location: In his Blasterthron chasing TomB with a blowtorch.
ChalSto joins him. |
Kyozoku
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Posted - 2006.03.04 13:08:00 -
[22]
<3
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2006.03.04 13:10:00 -
[23]
"Is the Phoon-fix coming along with blasters?"
Yes, to kill two birds with one stone 'phoon will receive the blaster falloff bonus.
* hides
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Porro
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Posted - 2006.03.04 13:29:00 -
[24]
Raven getting a mining laser bonus instead right? It'll still prolly own everything else too :P
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Keta Min
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Posted - 2006.03.04 13:34:00 -
[25]
Originally by: j0sephine
"Is the Phoon-fix coming along with blasters?"
Yes, to kill two birds with one stone 'phoon will receive the blaster falloff bonus.
* hides
that post ist griefing me.
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Hehulk
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Posted - 2006.03.04 13:36:00 -
[26]
Originally by: TomB
Blasters, Phoon, AF's and more. It has started, once it's in testing you will be notified with a shiny sticky post in this forum channel.
\o/
Thank you TomB! I will love you long time for this :D
----------
Chief Patronising Officer - Black Sea Industries
Shareholder In O'Mara Shipyards |
slip66
|
Posted - 2006.03.04 13:46:00 -
[27]
YEA DEVS! \0/
Originally by: StOrM ViPeR
Theres a skill called surgical strike in game I've learned that it actually stands for Band of Brothers |
Liu Kaskakka
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Posted - 2006.03.04 13:47:00 -
[28]
2006.02.13 13:58
Training of the skill Large Blaster Specialization to level 5 has been completed 
King Liu is RIGHT!!
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solidshot
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Posted - 2006.03.04 14:08:00 -
[29]
Originally by: TomB
Blasters, Phoon, AF's and more. It has started, once it's in testing you will be notified with a shiny sticky post in this forum channel.
by saying "and more " does this mean arties as well?
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Joerd Toastius
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Posted - 2006.03.04 14:14:00 -
[30]
Originally by: madaluap
Originally by: JC Weyland
When people are asking I might aswell.
Will there (ever) be a propulsion overhaul and will interceptors recive a Role bonus / changed bonuses?
wait! first the real broken stuff not the "imo broken stuff".
so first that blasterthron and phoon (really really feel sorry for minmatar, its such a crap hybrid ship)
And the Vengeance.
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Unholy Preacher
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Posted - 2006.03.04 14:18:00 -
[31]
im going to mix up all this negative with some positrons ! TomB you R0x0rs my S0x0rs ! Thanks for all the great work you guys do and we appreciate u letting us know that the fixes are in the pipeline !
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Dreez
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Posted - 2006.03.04 14:23:00 -
[32]
Thanks alot TomB, very nice news. Promise not to make another
post about this issue untill weŠve seen some tests.
Atleast now we know its comming, and when. I belive i can step out
of my BT now and turn of the blowtorch  .
Please resize your signature graphic to be smaller than 24,000 bytes in filesize - Jacques
[i]Current Location: After chasing TomB for 2 years,
at the pub, getting a cold beer.[/i |
MrCue
|
Posted - 2006.03.04 14:27:00 -
[33]
Originally by: TomB
Blasters, Phoon, AF's and more. It has started, once it's in testing you will be notified with a shiny sticky post in this forum channel.
Does this include removing the damage bonuses from ceptors and replacing them with bonuses related to their role?
Killmail Database |
j0sephine
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Posted - 2006.03.04 14:32:00 -
[34]
Edited by: j0sephine on 04/03/2006 14:34:55
"Does this include removing the damage bonuses from ceptors and replacing them with bonuses related to their role?"
"Interceptors utilize a combination of advanced alloys and electronics to reduce their effective signature radius. This, along with superior maneuverability and speed, makes them very hard to target and track, particularly for high caliber turrets."
"Lightning-fast, highly maneuverable frigates."
... they do receive bonus related to their role. Other than that, there's nothing about them indicating they shouldn't receive damage bonus while pretty much every other single combat ship in EVE down to friggin' covert ops does. --;;
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Kaleeb
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Posted - 2006.03.04 14:36:00 -
[35]
Wooot blaster fix!!
/me goes to spend some "special" time with his BT 
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Roundhouse KEK
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Posted - 2006.03.04 14:39:00 -
[36]
Dear CCP,
Please don't fix the Typhoon like you fixed the Sacrilidge, i.e. nerfed the crap out of it, K?
____
Roundhouse KEK. Korea's awnser to Chuck Norris.
kekeke ^^ |
Waragha
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Posted - 2006.03.04 14:48:00 -
[37]
woot woot cool
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Har Ganeth
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Posted - 2006.03.04 15:07:00 -
[38]
Large blasters just need a small tracking boost.
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Apertotes
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Posted - 2006.03.04 15:10:00 -
[39]
Originally by: TomB
Blasters, Phoon, AF's and more. It has started, once it's in testing you will be notified with a shiny sticky post in this forum channel.
will we get a missile AF?
Apertotes, the Guybrush Threepwood of New Eve |
Aloysius Knight
|
Posted - 2006.03.04 15:15:00 -
[40]
i for one vote for tux to be banned from trying to fix the typhoon
i mean look what he did to the sac 
Haha can't touch this! |
Jenna H4ze
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Posted - 2006.03.04 15:41:00 -
[41]
Why don't u script and code a new game and make all the ships exaclty the way u want then??untill then stop moaning.
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Trefnis
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Posted - 2006.03.04 15:48:00 -
[42]
will the arties get looked at in general and autocannons clip also ?
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Demon Bringer
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Posted - 2006.03.04 15:57:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Trefnis
will the arties get looked at in general and autocannons clip also ?
there is nothing wrong with autocannon clip size.
arts clip should be increased though
apart from clip size dont touch projectiles they are a competitive weapon class.
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Nafri
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Posted - 2006.03.04 16:02:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Demon Bringer
Originally by: Trefnis
will the arties get looked at in general and autocannons clip also ?
there is nothing wrong with autocannon clip size.
arts clip should be increased though
apart from clip size dont touch projectiles they are a competitive weapon class.
not really, howitzers lacks some serius thing rails and beams have
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Crusari
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Posted - 2006.03.04 16:30:00 -
[45]
Large Blasterfix is making me so happy \o/
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LWMaverick
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Posted - 2006.03.04 16:37:00 -
[46]
Originally by: TomB
Blasters are getting looked into for next patch, there was not enough time to get them fixed for the Blood patch. Aiming for tests to start on SiSi in the upcoming week, you will see a post from a dev once it's on.
<3
With great power, comes great responsibility. |
Soren
|
Posted - 2006.03.04 16:48:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Liu Kaskakka
2006.02.13 13:58
Training of the skill Large Blaster Specialization to level 5 has been completed
omg ur liuber!
________________________________________________
|
DigitalCommunist
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Posted - 2006.03.04 16:58:00 -
[48]
Edited by: DigitalCommunist on 04/03/2006 17:00:45
Good news, but isn't the next patch Kali - or is there something smaller before then?
@j0: Think he means the damage bonuses from Tech 2 skills. Tech 1 is only there to promote racial weaponry use. In which case I agree. Either replace them with a propulsion jamming range/effectiveness bonus, or afterburner velocity bonus (to make use of low sig and high speed).
Purchasing Complex Fullerene Shards, contact me ingame. |
Grimpak
|
Posted - 2006.03.04 17:06:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Demon Bringer
Originally by: Trefnis
will the arties get looked at in general and autocannons clip also ?
there is nothing wrong with autocannon clip size.
erm....
...what about the 200mm/425mm/800mm autos?
at least in the 425mm case, people use more the 220mm just because the DoT in the 425mm suffers from the small clip size it has.
----------------
Originally by: Abdalion
Shoot him ingame if you don't like this person. If you do like him, go mine veldspar with him.
|
j0sephine
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Posted - 2006.03.04 17:15:00 -
[50]
"@j0: Think he means the damage bonuses from Tech 2 skills. Tech 1 is only there to promote racial weaponry use. In which case I agree. Either replace them with a propulsion jamming range/effectiveness bonus, or afterburner velocity bonus (to make use of low sig and high speed)."
Uhmm, i don't understand this. The only damage bonuses from tech.2 skills are the ones that come from specializations and it has nothing to do with a ship -- if you put tech.2 weapon on any ship you get the damage bonus from specialization skill and that's it. Are you saying interceptors should be for some odd reason unlike any other ship, and have tech.2 weapons equipped on them ignore the effect of tech.2 specialization skills? ^^;;
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Blackest Sheep
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Posted - 2006.03.04 17:22:00 -
[51]
Originally by: j0sephine
"@j0: Think he means the damage bonuses from Tech 2 skills. Tech 1 is only there to promote racial weaponry use. In which case I agree. Either replace them with a propulsion jamming range/effectiveness bonus, or afterburner velocity bonus (to make use of low sig and high speed)."
Uhmm, i don't understand this. The only damage bonuses from tech.2 skills are the ones that come from specializations and it has nothing to do with a ship -- if you put tech.2 weapon on any ship you get the damage bonus from specialization skill and that's it. Are you saying interceptors should be for some odd reason unlike any other ship, and have tech.2 weapons equipped on them ignore the effect of tech.2 specialization skills? ^^;;
I guess he means the t2 ship skill, in this case Interceptor. He promotes leaving the bonuses from the underlying t1 ship, which you need at 5 anyway and changing the bonus from the t2 ship skill, i.e. Interceptor to something else.
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Sarmaul
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Posted - 2006.03.04 17:24:00 -
[52]
Originally by: TomB
Blasters, Phoon, AF's and more. It has started, once it's in testing you will be notified with a shiny sticky post in this forum channel.
WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO WE LOVE YOU!!!!
Originally by: j0sephine
"Is the Phoon-fix coming along with blasters?"
Yes, to kill two birds with one stone 'phoon will receive the blaster falloff bonus.
* hides
omg you managed to come up with something worse than the target painting bonus.
______________________________________________
Please do not discuss actions taken by forum moderators, even in your sig. *snip*snip brought to you by Kaemonn --Jorauk |
dalman
|
Posted - 2006.03.04 17:32:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Blackest Sheep
Originally by: j0sephine
"@j0: Think he means the damage bonuses from Tech 2 skills. Tech 1 is only there to promote racial weaponry use. In which case I agree. Either replace them with a propulsion jamming range/effectiveness bonus, or afterburner velocity bonus (to make use of low sig and high speed)."
Uhmm, i don't understand this. The only damage bonuses from tech.2 skills are the ones that come from specializations and it has nothing to do with a ship -- if you put tech.2 weapon on any ship you get the damage bonus from specialization skill and that's it. Are you saying interceptors should be for some odd reason unlike any other ship, and have tech.2 weapons equipped on them ignore the effect of tech.2 specialization skills? ^^;;
I guess he means the t2 ship skill, in this case Interceptor. He promotes leaving the bonuses from the underlying t1 ship, which you need at 5 anyway and changing the bonus from the t2 ship skill, i.e. Interceptor to something else.
Yes, he's talking about the same thing I've been talking about since the introduction of interceptors:
Why the heck the interceptor skill adds a second damagebonus instead of something much more rolebased.
Am I forced to have any regret?
I've become the lie, beautiful and free
In my righteous own mind
I adore and preach the insanity you gave to me |
j0sephine
|
Posted - 2006.03.04 17:32:00 -
[54]
"I guess he means the t2 ship skill, in this case Interceptor. He promotes leaving the bonuses from the underlying t1 ship, which you need at 5 anyway and changing the bonus from the t2 ship skill, i.e. Interceptor to something else."
Thought for a moment it could be it, but it doesn't really make much sense because short of the interceptor bonus reducing the signature size (which incidentally is exactly the case of tech.2 skill affecting the only clearly defined 'distinct' feature of these ships) ... there's little consistency from interceptor to interceptor how this skill is used:
* crow: missile velocity
* taranis: turret tracking
* crusader: turret tracking
* claw: turret tracking
* raptor: missile damage (turret damage is on frigate skill)
* ares: missile damage (turret damage on frigate skill)
* malediction: missile damage (turret damage is.. you guessed it, on frigate skill)
* stiletto: projectile falloff (for a change)
... if the interceptor skill is changed, it doesn't actually affect damage dealing abilities of interceptors much, except for these who are already worse off in this area. So this kind of change across the board would beef up the 'better' ceptors, made the 'worse' ceptors even more pointless in comparison, and wouldn't address the "omg ceptors do too much damage /o\" crowd at all, really o.O;
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Nafri
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Posted - 2006.03.04 17:33:00 -
[55]
Originally by: dalman
Originally by: Blackest Sheep
Originally by: j0sephine
"@j0: Think he means the damage bonuses from Tech 2 skills. Tech 1 is only there to promote racial weaponry use. In which case I agree. Either replace them with a propulsion jamming range/effectiveness bonus, or afterburner velocity bonus (to make use of low sig and high speed)."
Uhmm, i don't understand this. The only damage bonuses from tech.2 skills are the ones that come from specializations and it has nothing to do with a ship -- if you put tech.2 weapon on any ship you get the damage bonus from specialization skill and that's it. Are you saying interceptors should be for some odd reason unlike any other ship, and have tech.2 weapons equipped on them ignore the effect of tech.2 specialization skills? ^^;;
I guess he means the t2 ship skill, in this case Interceptor. He promotes leaving the bonuses from the underlying t1 ship, which you need at 5 anyway and changing the bonus from the t2 ship skill, i.e. Interceptor to something else.
Yes, he's talking about the same thing I've been talking about since the introduction of interceptors:
Why the heck the interceptor skill adds a second damagebonus instead of something much more rolebased.
thy should get boni to webbing strength and warp disruptor range
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dabster
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Posted - 2006.03.04 17:40:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Roundhouse KEK
Dear CCP,
Please don't fix the Typhoon like you fixed the Sacrilidge, i.e. nerfed the crap out of it, K?
No problemo, Typhoon cannot possibly become worse than it is.
___________________________
Brutors Rule!
My Eve-vids; Click. |
Sarmaul
|
Posted - 2006.03.04 17:41:00 -
[57]
Originally by: dabster
Originally by: Roundhouse KEK
Dear CCP,
Please don't fix the Typhoon like you fixed the Sacrilidge, i.e. nerfed the crap out of it, K?
No problemo, Typhoon cannot possibly become worse than it is.
how much do you want to bet on that?
Please do not discuss actions taken by forum moderators, even in your sig. *snip*red snip brought to you by Kaemonn. PS, you're hot.--Jorauk |
j0sephine
|
Posted - 2006.03.04 17:43:00 -
[58]
Edited by: j0sephine on 04/03/2006 17:44:30
"Yes, he's talking about the same thing I've been talking about since the introduction of interceptors:
Why the heck the interceptor skill adds a second damagebonus instead of something much more rolebased."
Well, if it was changed for these 'second fiddle' interceptors only to some sort of tackling bonus then i don't really have much problem with it, otherwise like pointed out you'd only be making the already good ships even better in comparison (by giving them superior tackling ability on top of good damage, while killing part of damage of the 'worse' ships without giving them anything the 'better' ceptors get as well)
Not sure if there's much chance for it happening though, seeing how reluctant CCP is about giving players any more ability to tackle than they already have (took how many years for a ship with scrambling bonus to appear, and there's still no sign of large warp bubbles or tech.2 scramblers, just to name few examples...)
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Sarmaul
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Posted - 2006.03.04 17:47:00 -
[59]
Originally by: j0sephine
Edited by: j0sephine on 04/03/2006 17:44:30
"Yes, he's talking about the same thing I've been talking about since the introduction of interceptors:
Why the heck the interceptor skill adds a second damagebonus instead of something much more rolebased."
Well, if it was changed for these 'second fiddle' interceptors only to some sort of tackling bonus then i don't really have much problem with it, otherwise like pointed out you'd only be making the already good ships even better in comparison (by giving them superior tackling ability on top of good damage, while killing part of damage of the 'worse' ships without giving them anything the 'better' ceptors get as well)
Not sure if there's much chance for it happening though, seeing how reluctant CCP is about giving players any more ability to tackle than they already have (took how many years for a ship with scrambling bonus to appear, and there's still no sign of large warp bubbles or tech.2 scramblers, just to name few examples...)
and interdiction spheres that don't work like warp bubbles  . I'm so glad I found that out before I forked out for the skillbook.
Please do not discuss actions taken by forum moderators, even in your sig. *snip*red snip brought to you by Kaemonn. PS, you're hot.--Jorauk |
DigitalCommunist
|
Posted - 2006.03.04 18:09:00 -
[60]
Uhm, take Taranis into consideration then.. tech 1 = 25%, tech 2 = 25%, combined = 50%. It may not be part of the Interceptor skill itself but it sure is a tech 2 bonus.
Purchasing Complex Fullerene Shards, contact me ingame. |
Odda
|
Posted - 2006.03.04 18:53:00 -
[61]
Whooo finaly :D thx tomB
/
/me start to cry of happines
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Crellion
|
Posted - 2006.03.04 19:14:00 -
[62]
thank you mr Tomb man
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Foulis
|
Posted - 2006.03.04 19:14:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Sarmaul
Originally by: dabster
Originally by: Roundhouse KEK
Dear CCP,
Please don't fix the Typhoon like you fixed the Sacrilidge, i.e. nerfed the crap out of it, K?
No problemo, Typhoon cannot possibly become worse than it is.
how much do you want to bet on that?
In the future I see.... Mining bonus...
----
I <3 Taranis
Cake > Pie - Imaran
Originally by: CCP Hammer
Boobies
|
Maya Rkell
|
Posted - 2006.03.04 19:27:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Laythun
Originally by: Dreez
IŠve seen one thread about the SAC having issues needing
a fix, and bang.. its in the bloodpatch and it didnt even take
6 months.
this fix was infinately easier than rebalancing the whole of hybrid blasters
AAAAAAAAH
There is nothing wrong with "the whole of hybrid blasters". Small blasters are ALLREADY more than uber enough, and mediums are competitive. Large might well have an issue, but that does NOT mean that "the whole of hybrid blasters" needs a change.
Large blaster changes only, or NO blaster changes.
You've allready made the Tarranis the best ceptor in many situations, don't make it the best combat frigate.
MrCue,
Interceptors destroy things.
Interdictors hold things.
IRL *and* in Eve. And no, I don't support any changes to the Stiletto. Damage IS role-based for ceptors. If you make them "tackling", then you've made them worthless in the vast majority of situations, since T1 frigates would outdamage them and because of the low life expectancy of a tackler, those T1 frigates will usually be a better choice.
Unless you heavily rework the entire balance system to nerf nos, drones, ECM and so on so that a BS NEEDS escorts to deal with frigates (aka what the whiners complain about today). Or you could keep the current, accurate and fine system and ignore people who think that interceptors tackle when there is no basis in real life or in Eve for that.
Maybe the second tier ceptors, but because of the sentiment that ALL ceptors should do less damage than T1 frigs, I am opposed to ANY frig changes.
Digital Communist> The Jin-Mei are probably more profficient in training for Tofu and Noodles than Spaceship Command |
j0sephine
|
Posted - 2006.03.04 19:31:00 -
[65]
"Uhm, take Taranis into consideration then.. tech 1 = 25%, tech 2 = 25%, combined = 50%. It may not be part of the Interceptor skill itself but it sure is a tech 2 bonus."
Ahh, ok i get it now. You mean the part of damage bonus that's "extra" in comparison to what tech.1 frigates receive ^^;;
Well, can't say i like the idea much but it's mostly personal distaste -- i don't really find it necessary to pigeonhole all 8 interceptors into role of 'advanced tackler' when currently they can pick between either good tackling or ability to act as fast, effective combat craft. Now if it was just about making these 'worse' interceptors into ships with actual advantage when compared to the other 4 then sure. But all of them? meh... :/
|
Crellion
|
Posted - 2006.03.04 19:41:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Maya Rkell
Originally by: Laythun
Originally by: Dreez
IŠve seen one thread about the SAC having issues needing
a fix, and bang.. its in the bloodpatch and it didnt even take
6 months.
this fix was infinately easier than rebalancing the whole of hybrid blasters
AAAAAAAAH
There is nothing wrong with "the whole of hybrid blasters". Small blasters are ALLREADY more than uber enough, and mediums are competitive. Large might well have an issue, but that does NOT mean that "the whole of hybrid blasters" needs a change.
Large blaster changes only, or NO blaster changes.
You've allready made the Tarranis the best ceptor in many situations, don't make it the best combat frigate.
MrCue,
Interceptors destroy things.
Interdictors hold things.
IRL *and* in Eve. And no, I don't support any changes to the Stiletto. Damage IS role-based for ceptors. If you make them "tackling", then you've made them worthless in the vast majority of situations, since T1 frigates would outdamage them and because of the low life expectancy of a tackler, those T1 frigates will usually be a better choice.
Unless you heavily rework the entire balance system to nerf nos, drones, ECM and so on so that a BS NEEDS escorts to deal with frigates (aka what the whiners complain about today). Or you could keep the current, accurate and fine system and ignore people who think that interceptors tackle when there is no basis in real life or in Eve for that.
Maybe the second tier ceptors, but because of the sentiment that ALL ceptors should do less damage than T1 frigs, I am opposed to ANY frig changes.
Maya if i had 1 isk for every ranis that dies to a crow I could afford a dread lol
|
Maya Rkell
|
Posted - 2006.03.04 19:43:00 -
[67]
Snort. Crows are easy to kill once you have the knack of it.
In a Claw OR a Tarranis.
But that's not really the point, I'm talking overall balance rather than a specific ship vs ship, where you will allways have point imbalances (like the pretty much utter inability of Amarr interceptors to kill the Claw).
Digital Communist> The Jin-Mei are probably more profficient in training for Tofu and Noodles than Spaceship Command |
Jon Xylur
|
Posted - 2006.03.04 19:55:00 -
[68]
Thank you TomB! Praised eb the mighty devs! But will thsi boost include rebalancign of stealth bombers (Nemesis is utterly sucky) and the fixing of Vengage, Ares and Raptor? Somethign must be done to them
|
Crellion
|
Posted - 2006.03.04 20:19:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Maya Rkell
Snort. Crows are easy to kill once you have the knack of it.
In a Claw OR a Tarranis.
But that's not really the point, I'm talking overall balance rather than a specific ship vs ship, where you will allways have point imbalances (like the pretty much utter inability of Amarr interceptors to kill the Claw).
Hmmm I wonder if you have fought aginst crows with Darling Hassasin's set up in a ranis lately.... In any event I dont feel that blaster ranis is overpowered myself. I prefer to use crow despite having ridiculously more sps in gunnery.... but whateva...
|
Maya Rkell
|
Posted - 2006.03.04 20:25:00 -
[70]
No, I don't fell it's overpowered. What I feel is that boosting small blasters would be uncessary.
(And specifics of that Crow setup, thanks, don't know the guy)
Digital Communist> The Jin-Mei are probably more profficient in training for Tofu and Noodles than Spaceship Command |
DigitalCommunist
|
Posted - 2006.03.04 21:04:00 -
[71]
Originally by: j0sephine
"Uhm, take Taranis into consideration then.. tech 1 = 25%, tech 2 = 25%, combined = 50%. It may not be part of the Interceptor skill itself but it sure is a tech 2 bonus."
Ahh, ok i get it now. You mean the part of damage bonus that's "extra" in comparison to what tech.1 frigates receive ^^;;
Well, can't say i like the idea much but it's mostly personal distaste -- i don't really find it necessary to pigeonhole all 8 interceptors into role of 'advanced tackler' when currently they can pick between either good tackling or ability to act as fast, effective combat craft. Now if it was just about making these 'worse' interceptors into ships with actual advantage when compared to the other 4 then sure. But all of them? meh... :/
Well in the case of Caldari and Gallente the choice is always the same, specifically because of the greater firepower. Makes whatever marginal speed benefit the secondary interceptor enjoys to be kinda moot in the larger scheme of things. Anyhow, thats just on that perspective.
Overall interceptors are not as unique as they should be. Multi-role for teh suck.
Purchasing Complex Fullerene Shards, contact me ingame. |
j0sephine
|
Posted - 2006.03.04 21:19:00 -
[72]
"Well in the case of Caldari and Gallente the choice is always the same, specifically because of the greater firepower. Makes whatever marginal speed benefit the secondary interceptor enjoys to be kinda moot in the larger scheme of things. Anyhow, thats just on that perspective."
Well, that's kinda why i wouldn't mind the secodnary bonus on raptor, ares etc changed to say, 10% to warp scrambler strength per level. There isn't much reason to choose them currently, but when the choice means difference between +4 and +6 ... it's slightly different matter -.^
|
Crellion
|
Posted - 2006.03.04 21:43:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Maya Rkell
No, I don't fell it's overpowered. What I feel is that boosting small blasters would be uncessary.
(And specifics of that Crow setup, thanks, don't know the guy)
The guy is a 0 sp alt but the set up passed on the forums works I ll contact you in game.
|
DeMundus
|
Posted - 2006.03.04 21:55:00 -
[74]
Muwhaha! Atlast... might even have l. blaster spec to 5 then
|
Isonkon Serikain
|
Posted - 2006.03.04 22:24:00 -
[75]
looks as if megathron might be the next fotm... Me sighs as I am training minnie BS 5....
Ison's notches |
Maya Rkell
|
Posted - 2006.03.04 22:46:00 -
[76]
DC,
The Caldari interceptors do work differently, although I'll grant you that the Ares and Tarranis need better role seperation.
If you remember in the Interceptor overhaul the Ares was getting a third midslot. Then for some reason at the last moment it became a fourth highslot. I allways blinked about that one.
Digital Communist> The Jin-Mei are probably more profficient in training for Tofu and Noodles than Spaceship Command |
Wrayeth
|
Posted - 2006.03.04 23:11:00 -
[77]
Originally by: TomB
Blasters, Phoon, AF's and more. It has started, once it's in testing you will be notified with a shiny sticky post in this forum channel.
CCP = win. 
-Wrayeth
|
Tachy
|
Posted - 2006.03.04 23:44:00 -
[78]
Nice!
Good to know that the devs rockingly look at Minmatar ships again and again.
Do you do the font too? Along with the mission difficulty, maybe?
How far along are tactical environments?
Got the storyline behind the Thukker Tribe standing changes written yet?
Do I sound a little disheartened?
--*=*=*--
Megadon
CCP wanted a well known artist and celebrity to test the new font so it's approval would be well known. They got Ray |
Damien Vox
|
Posted - 2006.03.05 00:07:00 -
[79]
Are you going to look at Arty's/Projectiles? They could use some serious look too especially up'ing the clip size on Arty's and several other things that could help them get back on par with lasers/rails.
|
Altai Saker
|
Posted - 2006.03.05 00:21:00 -
[80]
Honestly I dont think small blasters are good enough, either that or rails need a nerf...
ATM its basically foolish to put blasters on a taranis... I know many will argue with me... but your just wrong :)
|
Reatu Krentor
|
Posted - 2006.03.05 00:22:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Maya Rkell
MrCue,
Interceptors destroy things.
Interdictors hold things.
just commenting on this bit.
Interceptors definition
Interdictor definition
doesn't say anything about doing damage in case of interceptors(I can agree that IRL there isn't exactly a thing like a webifier or scrambler though), it says interceptors are designed to catch enemies(in eve i'd call that tackling). Interdictor on the other hand: "to cut or destroy (a line of communication) by firepower"
To me it seems perfectly reasonable for interceptors to have tackling bonuses(like range to all propulsion jamming mods) and less damage.
------------------------------------------
phew! dodged the mods on this sig! |
dalman
|
Posted - 2006.03.05 00:35:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Reatu Krentor
Originally by: Maya Rkell
MrCue,
Interceptors destroy things.
Interdictors hold things.
just commenting on this bit.
Interceptors definition
Interdictor definition
doesn't say anything about doing damage in case of interceptors(I can agree that IRL there isn't exactly a thing like a webifier or scrambler though), it says interceptors are designed to catch enemies(in eve i'd call that tackling). Interdictor on the other hand: "to cut or destroy (a line of communication) by firepower"
To me it seems perfectly reasonable for interceptors to have tackling bonuses(like range to all propulsion jamming mods) and less damage.
Yep.
Well, that's what I've been saying all the time.
But Maya has explained to me that intercept in eve obviously means to stop i dead.
Can't believe how silly I was. I thought all ships fitted weapons to to stop i dead.
But now I know that it's the role of interceptors, and not other ships, to kill stuff.
Am I forced to have any regret?
I've become the lie, beautiful and free
In my righteous own mind
I adore and preach the insanity you gave to me |
ArtemisEntreri
|
Posted - 2006.03.05 00:45:00 -
[83]
Originally by: TomB
Blasters, Phoon, AF's and more. It has started, once it's in testing you will be notified with a shiny sticky post in this forum channel.
Thanks for confirming the rumors that you guys read our posts and I'm v grateful you haven't decided to back out on your word as it may have seemed to fix blasters etc
|
Joerd Toastius
|
Posted - 2006.03.05 00:58:00 -
[84]
I can't believe people are still hung up about a stupid definition. The OED says:
Quote:
1. trans. To seize, catch, or carry off (a person, ship, letter, etc.) on the way from one place to another; to cut off from the destination aimed at.
If you kill someone, I think that counts as "catching" them or "cutting them off". An interceptor intercepts, and to intercept is basically to catch and stop someone. Now yes, that can mean holding them in place, but it can equally mean killing them. An interceptor is different from other ships simply in that it's designed primarily to catch things, and by extension given that all ships can move to catch things that other ships can't. All this implies is that it's fast and has some mechanism of stopping things, be that scramblers, webs or big guns.
|
Dash Ripcock
|
Posted - 2006.03.05 01:00:00 -
[85]
Since this looks like the 'Get a dev response' thread, any chance the Deimos will be getting the much needed fitting and agility/speed tweak?
The Firing Range |
Selim
|
Posted - 2006.03.05 01:07:00 -
[86]
What exactly is the problem with small and medium blasters? Large ones could use a tracking boost though.
____________
Originally by: hired goon
Imagine if you were having sex but the girl turned into Margaret Thatcher just as you were approaching climax. That's why we hate WCS.
|
Spartan239
|
Posted - 2006.03.05 01:09:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Selim
What exactly is the problem with small and medium blasters? Large ones could use a tracking boost though.
never noticed a huge problem with mids, unless there on my deimos, but thats the deimos itself not the blasters
|
Khaldorn Murino
|
Posted - 2006.03.05 01:10:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Damien Vox
Are you going to look at Arty's/Projectiles? They could use some serious look too especially up'ing the clip size on Arty's and several other things that could help them get back on par with lasers/rails.
I have to quot evoxy for truth there, longer fights mean we need more clip size to compensate
-
Rise.
|
Hllaxiu
|
Posted - 2006.03.05 01:45:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Reatu Krentor
Originally by: Maya Rkell
MrCue,
Interceptors destroy things.
Interdictors hold things.
just commenting on this bit.
Interceptors definition
Interdictor definition
doesn't say anything about doing damage in case of interceptors(I can agree that IRL there isn't exactly a thing like a webifier or scrambler though), it says interceptors are designed to catch enemies(in eve i'd call that tackling). Interdictor on the other hand: "to cut or destroy (a line of communication) by firepower"
To me it seems perfectly reasonable for interceptors to have tackling bonuses(like range to all propulsion jamming mods) and less damage.
Well, depends on what you're going for. An interceptor aircraft is a point defense air to air platform. An interdicton mission (not a "type defining" role usually) is to disrupt enemy supply lines (taking out convoys, railways, etc.) - a distinctly air to ground role.
The interceptors as they currently exist do well in that former role. The interdictor role doesn't quite work though. In general though, interdiction means to stop - see "interdictor cruisers" in star wars and anti-smuggling interdicton roles for the coast guard.
Interestingly enough, if we follow Star Wars we get our EVE roles exactly. Interceptor - lightly armed attack fighter thats really fun and fast to fly and will get you killed quickly if you forget what you're flying (Tie-Interceptor, A-wing)
Interdictor - over sized, under armed, and poorly armored - but will keep a target from warping out while it kicks your ass. You'd figure that after Dash and Luke took one down with only a freighter, an X-wing and a couple of Y-wings that the empire would probably soup them up some more.
|
Dash Ripcock
|
Posted - 2006.03.05 02:01:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Spartan239
Originally by: Selim
What exactly is the problem with small and medium blasters? Large ones could use a tracking boost though.
never noticed a huge problem with mids, unless there on my deimos, but thats the deimos itself not the blasters
I don't mind medium blasters, I'd just like to be able to fit some to my Deimos. Thanks!
The Firing Range |
Kaylana Syi
|
Posted - 2006.03.05 02:06:00 -
[91]
Originally by: TomB
Blasters are getting looked into for next patch, there was not enough time to get them fixed for the Blood patch. Aiming for tests to start on SiSi in the upcoming week, you will see a post from a dev once it's on.
I will be there with several characters. One uber Matari skills and one with 'meh' matari skills both phoonable. I will also be there with a char with 5mil SP to test hybrids as well as a char with 25mil SP to test Hybrids.
How about a nice thread sticky once these changes go in dedicated to L Hybrids and one to the Phoon so we can be subjective across the board.
Also, can you do something about Howies? I think they deserve a looking at too.
Originally by: "Oveur"
I don't react to threats any better than you do
|
Spartan239
|
Posted - 2006.03.05 07:59:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Dash Ripcock
Originally by: Spartan239
Originally by: Selim
What exactly is the problem with small and medium blasters? Large ones could use a tracking boost though.
never noticed a huge problem with mids, unless there on my deimos, but thats the deimos itself not the blasters
I don't mind medium blasters, I'd just like to be able to fit some to my Deimos. Thanks!
thats what i meant, 5 neutron ii's on a deimos is totaly impossilbe if you want to put something in the rest of the slots
|
Aloysius Knight
|
Posted - 2006.03.05 08:22:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Spartan239
thats what i meant, 5 neutron ii's on a deimos is totaly impossilbe if you want to put something in the rest of the slots[/quote
welcome to the munnins world
Haha can't touch this! |
DigitalCommunist
|
Posted - 2006.03.05 08:36:00 -
[94]
Way to lynch the dev, he responds to one issue thats been raised a dozen times and proven with something called "mathematics", and you all start making demands.
Assuming he even reads the rest of this thread, you're essentially asking for boosts to your favorite gun/ship based on speculative opinion. This is probably why we don't get any discussions out of TomB ;/
Purchasing Complex Fullerene Shards, contact me ingame. |
Spartan239
|
Posted - 2006.03.05 08:42:00 -
[95]
Edited by: Spartan239 on 05/03/2006 08:42:44
Edited by: Spartan239 on 05/03/2006 08:42:16
Originally by: Aloysius Knight
Originally by: Spartan239
thats what i meant, 5 neutron ii's on a deimos is totaly impossilbe if you want to put something in the rest of the slots
welcome to the munnins world
how well does the munnin work with ac's beacuse I probably shoudl have mentioned how fat and flow the deimos is, and how cap hungry it is, unles the munnin cant fit a full rack of 425's?
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Dash Ripcock
|
Posted - 2006.03.05 10:29:00 -
[96]
Originally by: DigitalCommunist
Way to lynch the dev, he responds to one issue thats been raised a dozen times and proven with something called "mathematics", and you all start making demands.
Assuming he even reads the rest of this thread, you're essentially asking for boosts to your favorite gun/ship based on speculative opinion. This is probably why we don't get any discussions out of TomB ;/
They are related.
The blaster family encompasses blaster ships, and the Deimos is certainly a blaster ship. Personally, I think small and medium blasters are fine if perhaps a little over the top with fitting. You talk of hi-jacking a thread. Perhaps we wouldn't need to if people got responses in threads like the following:
Ten-Page Deimos Thread
The Firing Range |
Specture
|
Posted - 2006.03.05 10:34:00 -
[97]
Originally by: TomB
Blasters are getting looked into for next patch, there was not enough time to get them fixed for the Blood patch. Aiming for tests to start on SiSi in the upcoming week, you will see a post from a dev once it's on.
I LOVE YOU LETS HAVE BABIES
|
Mather Maelstrom
|
Posted - 2006.03.05 10:37:00 -
[98]
Edited by: Mather Maelstrom on 05/03/2006 10:39:28
Yay, but don't only look at large blasters, mediums need some serious love too or atleast some heavy deimos hugging.
//No Pro Gallente RP, no Coreli & Cyrene anymore\\ |
Gabriel Karade
|
Posted - 2006.03.05 11:31:00 -
[99]
You know these gold bar 'thingy's' are at the same time an awesome and terrible idea...
*Gold bar appears*
"are we nearly there yet?"
"are we nearly there yet?"
"are we nearly there yet?"
"are we....."
I'm waiting for the day TomB snaps...
"Will you all just STFU!!!1111"
- Office Linebacker -
|
Grimpak
|
Posted - 2006.03.05 11:46:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Spartan239
Edited by: Spartan239 on 05/03/2006 08:42:44
Edited by: Spartan239 on 05/03/2006 08:42:16
Originally by: Aloysius Knight
Originally by: Spartan239
thats what i meant, 5 neutron ii's on a deimos is totaly impossilbe if you want to put something in the rest of the slots
welcome to the munnins world
how well does the munnin work with ac's beacuse I probably shoudl have mentioned how fat and flow the deimos is, and how cap hungry it is, unles the munnin cant fit a full rack of 425's?
I don't fly a munnin, but from what I gather from people that fly it (and people that use med AC's):
- 425mm suck because of the small clip. Better off with 220mm or D180mm
- munnin is a fat whale.
----------------
Originally by: Abdalion
Shoot him ingame if you don't like this person. If you do like him, go mine veldspar with him.
|
Spartan239
|
Posted - 2006.03.05 12:02:00 -
[101]
Originally by: Grimpak
Originally by: Spartan239
Edited by: Spartan239 on 05/03/2006 08:42:44
Edited by: Spartan239 on 05/03/2006 08:42:16
Originally by: Aloysius Knight
Originally by: Spartan239
thats what i meant, 5 neutron ii's on a deimos is totaly impossilbe if you want to put something in the rest of the slots
welcome to the munnins world
how well does the munnin work with ac's beacuse I probably shoudl have mentioned how fat and flow the deimos is, and how cap hungry it is, unles the munnin cant fit a full rack of 425's?
I don't fly a munnin, but from what I gather from people that fly it (and people that use med AC's):
- 425mm suck because of the small clip. Better off with 220mm or D180mm
- munnin is a fat whale.
I was making a point about the 425mm's
and the Munnin has less mass and more speed than the deimos
|
Naughty Boy
|
Posted - 2006.03.05 12:26:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Spartan239
I was making a point about the 425mm's
How does it matter, if the deimos can't fit neutrons t2 and the muninn can fit 425mm AC t2, if there is no incentive whatsoever to fit 425mm AC because they are never worth using over 220mm AC. The marginal advantage they have over 220mm AC in very rare cases is never really worth the loss of versatility. You most certainly wouldn't like CCP to decrease the fitting requirements of neutrons so that you can fit them on the deimos, but at the same time change their stats so that they aren't worth using anyway, would you? That's exactly what would happen if you wanted the deimos to be in a similar situation than the muninn. How is the muninn in a better situation then?
Furthermore, the deimos is clearly a blaster boat and the muninn is clearly an artillery ship. If there is a problem with medium blasters, you most certainly wouldn't like me telling you to fit medium rails instead to solve your problem. So, if the muninn also has problems fitting artilleries, there's little relevance in telling muninn pilots to fit autocannons (and the worse of them, even) instead.
Now, as this kind of statements about the deimos being completely broken and the muninn being very fine (when they have similar grid problems, the irony) is somehow frequent, let me point out another thread where I compare the long range capabilities (fitting, damage, and to a lesser extent tank) of the deimos and muninn. It appears that the deimos is easier to fit than the muninn in the long range role, with similar or better damage and tank.
In short, if ships have similar problems, there's no reason to fix one and not the other. Especially if you want the problems you want to see solved, to be solved, in the name of fairness.
Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy.
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Spartan239
|
Posted - 2006.03.05 12:41:00 -
[103]
geuss the deimos lovers spend mroe time on the forums than the munin lovers
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Pesadel0
|
Posted - 2006.03.05 13:11:00 -
[104]
I donŠt get this thread,you want to fit a rack of meds AND tank?
One have to choose,welcome to the world of the perfect fiting..
|
hylleX
|
Posted - 2006.03.05 14:42:00 -
[105]
I think its about time to fix small lasers. "Medium pulse/beams" they only fit on cruisers especially beams.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well kids you've tried your best and failed miserably, the lesson is: never try
|
Nafri
|
Posted - 2006.03.05 15:02:00 -
[106]
Originally by: hylleX
I think its about time to fix small lasers. "Medium pulse/beams" they only fit on cruisers especially beams.
thats cause thy do mucho more damage then the other small weapons
|
Tessen
|
Posted - 2006.03.05 15:04:00 -
[107]
Originally by: TomB
Blasters, Phoon, AF's and more. It has started, once it's in testing you will be notified with a shiny sticky post in this forum channel.
And Drones ?
Please give us a "desactivate drone AI" button.
|
Kitti Kenzaki
|
Posted - 2006.03.05 15:07:00 -
[108]
Originally by: hylleX
I think its about time to fix small lasers. "Medium pulse/beams" they only fit on cruisers especially beams.
You need more weapp upgrade and adv weap upgrade then.
Heve no problems to fit them on T1 Amarr frigs.
|
hylleX
|
Posted - 2006.03.05 16:23:00 -
[109]
Edited by: hylleX on 05/03/2006 16:24:17
Originally by: Kitti Kenzaki
Originally by: hylleX
I think its about time to fix small lasers. "Medium pulse/beams" they only fit on cruisers especially beams.
You need more weapp upgrade and adv weap upgrade then.
Heve no problems to fit them on T1 Amarr frigs.
Oh really, Engineering 5, Weapon upgrades 5, and adv wa at 4 is decent i think and 2% for level 5 wont change anything while fitting these turrets mmkay cuz i would need more like 20% or more. I would be very interested in what ship and fitting u use to fit medium beam IIs on a amarr frig T1 frig/inty or even medium pulse IIs, and this ofc without using a totally gimped setup. Medium Pulses fit on Af but thats it. Beams, yea right.
Try comparing this with i dunno say 280s II on a wolf bet they fit.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well kids you've tried your best and failed miserably, the lesson is: never try
|
Nafri
|
Posted - 2006.03.05 16:41:00 -
[110]
Originally by: hylleX
Edited by: hylleX on 05/03/2006 16:24:17
Originally by: Kitti Kenzaki
Originally by: hylleX
I think its about time to fix small lasers. "Medium pulse/beams" they only fit on cruisers especially beams.
You need more weapp upgrade and adv weap upgrade then.
Heve no problems to fit them on T1 Amarr frigs.
Oh really, Engineering 5, Weapon upgrades 5, and adv wa at 4 is decent i think and 2% for level 5 wont change anything while fitting these turrets mmkay cuz i would need more like 20% or more. I would be very interested in what ship and fitting u use to fit medium beam IIs on a amarr frig T1 frig/inty or even medium pulse IIs, and this ofc without using a totally gimped setup. Medium Pulses fit on Af but thats it. Beams, yea right.
Try comparing this with i dunno say 280s II on a wolf bet they fit.
ready my post before you continue to post
|
Joerd Toastius
|
Posted - 2006.03.05 18:53:00 -
[111]
Edited by: Joerd Toastius on 05/03/2006 18:53:11
That extra damage isn't particularly useful if you can't fit it on a frigate :P Med Pulse are fine but Med Beams need some looking at, even if it means sacrificing a bit of damage.
{edit} Besides which, don't large blasters do more damage than other BS weapons too?
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elFarto
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Posted - 2006.03.06 09:41:00 -
[112]
Originally by: Denrace
What about the craptacular bonuses on the Nighthawk?
What excatly is crap about it?
Regards
elFarto
npc.elfarto.com > Ingame NPC database
Simon: River! River? Are you okay?
River: I swallowed a bug. |
Aloysius Knight
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Posted - 2006.03.06 10:05:00 -
[113]
Originally by: Spartan239
Edited by: Spartan239 on 05/03/2006 08:42:44
Edited by: Spartan239 on 05/03/2006 08:42:16
Originally by: Aloysius Knight
Originally by: Spartan239
thats what i meant, 5 neutron ii's on a deimos is totaly impossilbe if you want to put something in the rest of the slots
welcome to the munnins world
how well does the munnin work with ac's beacuse I probably shoudl have mentioned how fat and flow the deimos is, and how cap hungry it is, unles the munnin cant fit a full rack of 425's?
the munnin is a arty boat, not a ac boat, u try and fit 5 t2 720mms on that
deimos main weps is blasters then rails
munnins main wep is arty then ac
like i said welcome to the munnins world
Haha can't touch this! |
LUKEC
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Posted - 2006.03.06 10:07:00 -
[114]
fitting 5x 250mm t2 rails on deimos is also impossible without rcu... so welcome to deimos world, poor munin pilots.
I use no guns... i smack to death. |
Adril Alatar
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Posted - 2006.03.06 10:17:00 -
[115]
Originally by: LUKEC
fitting 5x 250mm t2 rails on deimos is also impossible without rcu... so welcome to deimos world, poor munin pilots.
to fit 5 x 720 T2 + afterburner on a muninn you need 2 reactor control units. and you have about 100 powergrid left to fit tank and the last 2 high slots....
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Meridius
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Posted - 2006.03.06 10:49:00 -
[116]
Originally by: LUKEC
fitting 5x 250mm t2 rails on deimos is also impossible without rcu... so welcome to deimos world, poor munin pilots.
No it's not.
You get left with 13pg but you can fit 5x 250mm Railgun II's.
The Muninn needs 1 rcu II (gets left with 128.83pg).
_
__
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Jaketh Ivanes
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Posted - 2006.03.06 11:08:00 -
[117]
All ships have great difficulity fitting top of the line weapons of their size.
And thats the way its supposed to be.
An Apoc can't fit 8xTachs. Mega can't fit 7xNeutron L's. Not sure about the pest and 1400's tbh. A Maller can't fit 5x Heavy Beams.
Some can just squeese it in, but can't fit anything else. Otherwise, what would be the use for lower level guns?
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dalman
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Posted - 2006.03.06 11:28:00 -
[118]
Originally by: Jaketh Ivanes
All ships have great difficulity fitting top of the line weapons of their size.
And thats the way its supposed to be.
An Apoc can't fit 8xTachs. Mega can't fit 7xNeutron L's. Not sure about the pest and 1400's tbh. A Maller can't fit 5x Heavy Beams.
Some can just squeese it in, but can't fit anything else. Otherwise, what would be the use for lower level guns?
Hello.
This is reality busting ***** posts.
Tachyon = long range weapon. Megathron equivalent = 425mm rail.
Mega pulse = short range weapon. Megathron equivalent = Neutron blaster.
Unless you're gunna explain to me that an Apoc can't fit 8x Mega Pulse I'm saying that your post is *********.
Am I forced to have any regret?
I've become the lie, beautiful and free
In my righteous own mind
I adore and preach the insanity you gave to me |
Nafri
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Posted - 2006.03.06 12:19:00 -
[119]
Originally by: Meridius
Originally by: LUKEC
fitting 5x 250mm t2 rails on deimos is also impossible without rcu... so welcome to deimos world, poor munin pilots.
No it's not.
You get left with 13pg but you can fit 5x 250mm Railgun II's.
The Muninn needs 1 rcu II (gets left with 128.83pg).
and muninn has still 2 empty highslots
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Damien Vox
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Posted - 2006.03.06 19:44:00 -
[120]
Originally by: LUKEC
fitting 5x 250mm t2 rails on deimos is also impossible without rcu... so welcome to deimos world, poor munin pilots.
We Minmatar were in this situation far before the Gallente were, welcome to what has become our complete existance.
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HippoKing
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Posted - 2006.03.06 20:45:00 -
[121]
Edited by: HippoKing on 06/03/2006 20:44:53
Originally by: TomB
Blasters, Phoon, AF's and more. It has started, once it's in testing you will be notified with a shiny sticky post in this forum channel.
about the AFs, i know its old, but i'd like it if you'd remember my thread here
my longest post ever made is in there
sigs of the 23/24/25 hijack just as well -eris
yarrrr, i shall retake my sig -HippoKing
Not a chance, our 1337 sig haXx0r sk1llz are too powerful! - Wrangler
Ho-Ho-Hooooooo, Merry Saturday!11 - Immy
Yo ho ho and a bottle of BReeEEEEeee.... - Jacques ARRRRRRchambault
Stop spamming with "QFT" >:|. - Teblin
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Pesadel0
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Posted - 2006.03.06 21:29:00 -
[122]
Originally by: Damien Vox
Originally by: LUKEC
fitting 5x 250mm t2 rails on deimos is also impossible without rcu... so welcome to deimos world, poor munin pilots.
We Minmatar were in this situation far before the Gallente were, welcome to what has become our complete existance.
I start laugthing out loud when some one tells me that they cant put 5X of their weapons without a RCU ,when for ever i have used them on my matari ships
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LUKEC
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Posted - 2006.03.06 21:54:00 -
[123]
Originally by: Pesadel0
Originally by: Damien Vox
Originally by: LUKEC
fitting 5x 250mm t2 rails on deimos is also impossible without rcu... so welcome to deimos world, poor munin pilots.
We Minmatar were in this situation far before the Gallente were, welcome to what has become our complete existance.
I start laugthing out loud when some one tells me that they cant put 5X of their weapons without a RCU ,when for ever i have used them on my matari ships
Well last time i checked, AC tempest was way easier to fit than blasterthron. Also i'd rather not discuss effectiveness of each.
Rail deimos discussion again:
Ok, you can fit 5x 250mm t2 rails on deimos. With 13pg left... perfect for 3x sensor boosters, small t1 rep and 5x wcs/dmg mods...
Also last time i checked few killboards, there are some ebil kills again. Munin works in its role, while deimos doesn't. Get the point?
I use no guns... i smack to death. |
Naughty Boy
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Posted - 2006.03.06 23:05:00 -
[124]
Edited by: Naughty Boy on 06/03/2006 23:10:05
Originally by: LUKEC
Munin works in its role, while deimos doesn't.
You are talking about fittings, and then roles. You say that the deimos doesn't perform its role well, though the muninn does. Linking the two issues, it would seem like if the deimos doesn't perform well in its role it's because of the too short powergrid. Certainly if the problem of the deimos unable to perform well in its role wasn't related to fittings you wouldn't be bringing this issue with fittings, isn't it? If solving the powergrid issue would cure any problem of the deimos, the current issue is that it needs the low slot that would be used for an RCU/PDU for something else _needed_ for its role. What is that magic module you need in that last low slot of your deimos - yet you can't despite having so many of them - that makes it so unable to perform its role? Surely if you can't fit it you have 5 other low slot modules even more important to fit there. I've got a hard time to get into that idea "the deimos is unable to perform it's role without ions, a nice mod in the last high, and six low slots for something else than fitting mods". The deimos might very well have problems, but how you're defending the case is very dubious.
I wonder what really makes the muninn so different than the deimos in your eyes.
Not much improvements over the t1 version? It's shared by both.
Fitting problems? It's shared by both, and i'd even say it's worse for the muninn. With maxed skills it can't fit without any power mod 5 650mm artillery t2 (smallest cruiser sized t2 artillery), 2 assault launchers t2 (smallest t2 cruiser sized missile launcher), and a large shield booster/medium armor repair. If we do not consider the assault launcher, it is possible to fit 5 turrets and a large shield booster, and work out an ok setup from there (1187.5 MW - 990 MW - 165 MW is 32.5 MW for 2 high 2 mids 5 lows). It means that if you want to use t2 medium artilleries on the t2 artillery ship, you need to use a fitting mod or stuff junk in the last two high slots, with very few other options for the remaining slots. Fitting an artillery muninn sounds way harder than fitting a blaster deimos. Not to mention, having only two guns as options sounds as worthy of a complain than not being able to fit your third choice (neutrons) as in the end, a gun you can't fit is as useless as a gun that doesn't even exist.
Can't find enough room to perform its role in the battlefield? You might have a point there. What's the role of a sniping cruiser? What's the role of a close range cruiser sized damage dealer? And, most importantly, how is it related to the current game mechanisms? I think I have an idea about this.
Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy.
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Emsigma
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Posted - 2006.03.10 13:03:00 -
[125]
Any updates on this reaching sisi? :)
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ChalSto
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Posted - 2006.03.10 14:07:00 -
[126]
Originally by: Emsigma
Any updates on this reaching sisi? :)
not a little bit......
......better we all write a friendly reminder to TomB!!
Less CPU, More Cap-uage, less range, but better tracking and 100% more dmg plz
Current Location: Relax and drinking a beer with Dreez and waiting for TomBŠs Blaster changes |
Grey Area
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Posted - 2006.03.10 14:19:00 -
[127]
Originally by: TomB
Blasters, Phoon, AF's and more. It has started, once it's in testing you will be notified with a shiny sticky post in this forum channel.
Missiles are SO going to need an un-nerf to keep up.
Monty Pythons spoof of the EVE Forums;
Palin: "Is this the right room for an argument?"
Cleese: "I've told you once." |
Gariuys
|
Posted - 2006.03.10 14:21:00 -
[128]
Originally by: Grey Area
Originally by: TomB
Blasters, Phoon, AF's and more. It has started, once it's in testing you will be notified with a shiny sticky post in this forum channel.
Missiles are SO going to need an un-nerf to keep up.
Precision missiles.
~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~
A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX
The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool |
Grey Area
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Posted - 2006.03.10 14:33:00 -
[129]
Cost. If you are going to multiply blaster ammo's cost by a factor of 6 as part of this fix, then you have a point.
Monty Pythons spoof of the EVE Forums;
Palin: "Is this the right room for an argument?"
Cleese: "I've told you once." |
Naughty Boy
|
Posted - 2006.03.10 14:37:00 -
[130]
Edited by: Naughty Boy on 10/03/2006 14:42:18
Originally by: Grey Area
...
So, you think that changes to frigates have to be compensated by changes to battleships weapons so that in fact, at the end... the only AF's currently worth flying, not boosted, are in fact nerfed ? And the AF boosted won't be boosted above that level, resulting in an assault frigate nerf overall -.-.
Just making sure.
Edit: Originally by: Grey Area
Cost. If you are going to multiply blaster ammo's cost by a factor of 6 as part of this fix, then you have a point.
And if you bring cost of t2 stuffs into the equation, why don't you also ask for the performance of assault ships to match their market price?
Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy.
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Grey Area
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Posted - 2006.03.10 14:43:00 -
[131]
Just to clarify.
1. I was just messin'.
2. Currently, I think the battleships are as best balanced as they have ever been, so "fixing" one would imply that the others also need work.
3. I haven't flown a frigate in an age, save for loot collection in a Probe, and as far as I can see you were the first one to mention them anyway Naughty, so where did that come from?
4. I went into EVE and checked...the LOWEST cost multiplier from a standard Cruise to a Precision is actually 9.7, so I underestimated...most are in the region of 17 to 25 times more expensive.
Monty Pythons spoof of the EVE Forums;
Palin: "Is this the right room for an argument?"
Cleese: "I've told you once." |
Naughty Boy
|
Posted - 2006.03.10 14:52:00 -
[132]
Edited by: Naughty Boy on 10/03/2006 14:53:00
Originally by: Grey Area
3. I haven't flown a frigate in an age, save for loot collection in a Probe, and as far as I can see you were the first one to mention them anyway Naughty, so where did that come from?
I though it was obvious. "Missiles are SO going to need an un-nerf to keep up." To keep up with what? With blaster changes? Why would you want cruises to keep up with blasters? (the longest range weapons VS the shortest range weapon). Why would you want torpedoes to be boosted when blaster do () when torpedoes are such an awesome close range weapon right now (due to no tracking limitation at close range against ships of the right size). To keep up with the typhoon? Doesn't really make sense if the typhoon gets boosted with a missile bonus. To keep up with frigates? Maybe is it like they said, large missiles aren't designed to kill small ships easily...
I think it was very obvious that you were referring to AF's.
Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy.
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Kaylana Syi
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Posted - 2006.03.10 16:40:00 -
[133]
Originally by: Joerd Toastius
I can't believe people are still hung up about a stupid definition. The OED says:
Quote:
1. trans. To seize, catch, or carry off (a person, ship, letter, etc.) on the way from one place to another; to cut off from the destination aimed at.
If you kill someone, I think that counts as "catching" them or "cutting them off". An interceptor intercepts, and to intercept is basically to catch and stop someone. Now yes, that can mean holding them in place, but it can equally mean killing them. An interceptor is different from other ships simply in that it's designed primarily to catch things, and by extension given that all ships can move to catch things that other ships can't. All this implies is that it's fast and has some mechanism of stopping things, be that scramblers, webs or big guns.
Well... logically then anything that is small enough to try to act like an interceptor class ship is just a poor man's interceptor and ships too big to try and be an interceptor is a moving sentry gun. Thanks for clearing that up....
Originally by: "Oveur"
I don't react to threats any better than you do
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Kaylana Syi
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Posted - 2006.03.10 16:48:00 -
[134]
Originally by: Grey Area
2. Currently, I think the battleships are as best balanced as they have ever been, so "fixing" one would imply that the others also need work.
I have put claims about the Typhoon being a great all around ship. It is. With high SP its a deamon... but... not in its role. Infact, to keep ships balanced in EVE we need are roles. Give and take. The Typhoon is so gimp in its role compared to every other BS in its role it's bloody murder.
Originally by: "Oveur"
I don't react to threats any better than you do
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Tyrrant
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Posted - 2006.03.10 18:05:00 -
[135]
phoon needs 2k more PG, and take off the opti bonus for a proj dmg bonus. or a missle ROF bonus. or a drone dmg bonus. or a mwd bonus. pretty much any bonus that does it some good. but it deff needs 2k more pg.
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Elaina Cosengo
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Posted - 2006.03.10 19:26:00 -
[136]
Leave the guy alone you bastards *fights off wave after wave of Eve players with his Otter club. 
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Grey Area
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Posted - 2006.03.10 19:34:00 -
[137]
Originally by: Naughty Boy
I think it was very obvious that you were referring to AF's.
Then you are very wrong. Since the OP specifically mentions "L-Blasters" in his post, I am thinking ONLY that the Megathron will have a devastating upper hand in close combat...currently encounters with Ravens go about 50:50 (this I get from the approximately equal amounts of "Waah I just lost my Raven to a Mega" and "Waah I just lost my Mega to a Raven" posts.
Nothing to do with AF's whatsoever. And actually, I think you knew that all along, and are just living up to your name...
Monty Pythons spoof of the EVE Forums;
Palin: "Is this the right room for an argument?"
Cleese: "I've told you once." |
Naughty Boy
|
Posted - 2006.03.10 19:53:00 -
[138]
Originally by: Grey Area
Then you are very wrong. Since the OP specifically mentions "L-Blasters" in his post, I am thinking ONLY that the Megathron will have a devastating upper hand in close combat...currently encounters with Ravens go about 50:50 (this I get from the approximately equal amounts of "Waah I just lost my Raven to a Mega" and "Waah I just lost my Mega to a Raven" posts.
Well, as you know - we've already discussed this in a few other threads already - close range gunships need to cross the distance to their optimal range and take some damage on the way. To make it worthwhile they need to do a lot of damage when they are there. They also need to take less damage there, otherwise it's not rewarding in any way to fly with short range guns. That's why tracking matters. Torpedoes track better than blasters ever will, and have more range than blasters ever will. They need to do significantly less damage than them for two reasons: lack of tracking, and softer range constraint. If the damage output of torpedoes had to be lowered to account for that, as they have the best tracking and best range for close range weapons, they should have the lowest damage, which obviously would make them suck big time. So, why boost missiles more...
Of course then you could say that torpedoes do less damage to smaller ships than guns (i know you like that credo). The issue is, since turrets use transversal velocity, and missiles absolute velocity, your need to assume that the pilot of the smaller ship can't keep transversal high... and now, why would you assume that.
Originally by: Grey Area
Nothing to do with AF's whatsoever. And actually, I think you knew that all along, and are just living up to your name...
My turn to tell you that you are very wrong, then.
Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy.
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ChalSto
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Posted - 2006.03.10 20:51:00 -
[139]
Originally by: Grey Area
Originally by: Naughty Boy
I think it was very obvious that you were referring to AF's.
Then you are very wrong. Since the OP specifically mentions "L-Blasters" in his post, I am thinking ONLY that the Megathron will have a devastating upper hand in close combat...currently encounters with Ravens go about 50:50 (this I get from the approximately equal amounts of "Waah I just lost my Raven to a Mega" and "Waah I just lost my Mega to a Raven" posts.
Nothing to do with AF's whatsoever. And actually, I think you knew that all along, and are just living up to your name...
LOL
Blasterthron -vs- Raven 50:50?????
All the Raven-pilot have to do atm is to press F1-F8 and you are toast. FACT
Dual-Repper-Blasterthron? -> No cap in a few seconds and crap dmg, becouse you have to fit worse gunŠs then. All the Raven-pilot have to do atm is to sit there and watching you shooting him and loughing.......again F1-F8....BOOOOM
Ion-Blasterthron with half-way decend tank? -> not enough repper-power to keep your armor alive.........you will get WFTBBQ-BANE`ed............F1-F8.......boooom
......oh......and i forgot.........
.......you make a great lightshow for the Raven-pilot 
TOMB!!!!!!! PLZ!!!!!!!!!! NOW!!!!!!!!!
Current Location: Relax and drinking a beer with Dreez and waiting for TomBŠs Blaster changes |
Breed Love
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Posted - 2006.03.10 21:04:00 -
[140]
Originally by: ChalSto
LOL
Blasterthron -vs- Raven 50:50?????
All the Raven-pilot have to do atm is to press F1-F8 and you are toast. FACT
Dual-Repper-Blasterthron? -> No cap in a few seconds and crap dmg, becouse you have to fit worse gunŠs then. All the Raven-pilot have to do atm is to sit there and watching you shooting him and loughing.......again F1-F8....BOOOOM
Ion-Blasterthron with half-way decend tank? -> not enough repper-power to keep your armor alive.........you will get WFTBBQ-BANE`ed............F1-F8.......boooom
......oh......and i forgot.........
.......you make a great lightshow for the Raven-pilot
TOMB!!!!!!! PLZ!!!!!!!!!! NOW!!!!!!!!!
Thats so troo, in fact a blasterthron has little chance against a well fitted torp raven atm. All the raven losses to megas come from poorly fitted ravens.
------ Originally by: Gariuys
Breed Love for president.
Originally by: Slaveabuser
God I hate you.Breed Love.
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Grey Area
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Posted - 2006.03.10 22:41:00 -
[141]
Originally by: Naughty Boy
Edit: also, note that Gariuys obviously understood your point the same way i did, and that you replied to him as if he got your point correctly.
Yes, I did...I didn't see the inference, for which I apologise.
So you can only lose a Megathron to a "poorly fitted Raven"? Please explain how you poorly fit a Raven? The one part of the missile whine that IS true is that it is a ridiculously easy ship to fit, because we have so little choice of modules.
Highs: Launchers
Meds : Shield Tank
Lows: BCU's and PDS's
I don't PVP...maybe you are going to tell me that IS a poorly fitted Raven...
Monty Pythons spoof of the EVE Forums;
Palin: "Is this the right room for an argument?"
Cleese: "I've told you once." |
Elve Sorrow
|
Posted - 2006.03.10 22:48:00 -
[142]
Edited by: Elve Sorrow on 10/03/2006 22:48:20
Originally by: Grey Area
I don't PVP...maybe you are going to tell me that IS a poorly fitted Raven...
It is actually, ECM is flavour of the month atm. It's not bad though, it works decent enough. Atleast we agree on one thing, missile ships are ridiculously easy to fit.
P.S: Ill attempt to be slightly more reasonable, i may have gone a bit over the top with my sarcastic and pessimistic remarks earlier. Apologies if you were offended.
Yours,
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Emsigma
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Posted - 2006.03.10 22:56:00 -
[143]
Originally by: Grey Area
currently encounters with Ravens go about 50:50 (this I get from the approximately equal amounts of "Waah I just lost my Raven to a Mega" and "Waah I just lost my Mega to a Raven" posts.
You can not compare Blaster megathron vs afk t1 cruise raven.
Seriuosly... in 1vs1 you must really be an uber noob to lose a torp raven to a blaster megat.
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Grey Area
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Posted - 2006.03.11 11:08:00 -
[144]
Originally by: Elve Sorrow
Edited by: Elve Sorrow on 10/03/2006 22:48:20
Originally by: Grey Area
I don't PVP...maybe you are going to tell me that IS a poorly fitted Raven...
It is actually, ECM is flavour of the month atm. It's not bad though, it works decent enough. Atleast we agree on one thing, missile ships are ridiculously easy to fit.
P.S: Ill attempt to be slightly more reasonable, i may have gone a bit over the top with my sarcastic and pessimistic remarks earlier. Apologies if you were offended.
Life is too short to lose sleep over some random comment on a computer game forum. And anyway, I seem to remember I started it.
Common ground eh? Missile ships are easy to fit. No argument there, and it's all about our lack of choice...we need more modules that DO things for missile use. I would actually argue that we need;
MORE types of missile launcher (turrets get three types in each class, with four named variants...we get ONE type in each class with four named variants)
MORE medium slot modules...in fact ANY dedicated medium slot missile modules would be nice.
MORE low slot modules.
If there are penalties to fit them, then so be it, but give us some CHOICE CCP!
Monty Pythons spoof of the EVE Forums;
Palin: "Is this the right room for an argument?"
Cleese: "I've told you once." |
Grey Area
|
Posted - 2006.03.11 15:31:00 -
[145]
Might I make a suggestion?
AS far as the Mega goes, is the problem REALLY with the blasters? Isn't it more with the SHIP, which HAS to fit a MWD to get in close to be able to do any damage?
How about giving the Mega a bonus to armour hardeners (say 2% better per level of Gallente Battleship), which would mean it could perhaps afford to fit less drastic mods than the MWD, still have higher speed than it's target, and be able to take the initial damage during closing.
Just a thought.
My worry is, that with the Raven as simple and limited in it's fitting as it is, if the Megathron IS made more effective, won't the victories simply be handed to the Mega pilots on a plate? In other words, with the limited choice of modules available for missile users, what do we do to COUNTER these changes?
(I'd prefer hard suggestions other than the generic and ever-so-slightly smug "learn to adapt" that we normally get.)
Monty Pythons spoof of the EVE Forums;
Palin: "Is this the right room for an argument?"
Cleese: "I've told you once." |
LUKEC
|
Posted - 2006.03.11 15:38:00 -
[146]
Thing is: in 5km range ships should die to blasterthron... especially raven. But they don't.
Originally by: Commander Nikolas
People like Lukec are the problem and they know it. Shin Ra's Raven has 4x WCS, Lukec's Dominix has 5x WCS & Ishtar has 2x WCS.
Antipiracy is causing brain damage |
Maya Rkell
|
Posted - 2006.03.11 15:57:00 -
[147]
Originally by: Dash Ripcock
Originally by: Spartan239
Originally by: Selim
What exactly is the problem with small and medium blasters? Large ones could use a tracking boost though.
never noticed a huge problem with mids, unless there on my deimos, but thats the deimos itself not the blasters
I don't mind medium blasters, I'd just like to be able to fit some to my Deimos. Thanks!
That's a problem with the Deimos. The ship is, by comparison, blatently underpowered.
Digital Communist> The Jin-Mei are probably more profficient in training for Tofu and Noodles than Spaceship Command |
Grey Area
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Posted - 2006.03.11 22:43:00 -
[148]
Originally by: LUKEC
Thing is: in 5km range ships should die to blasterthron... especially raven. But they don't.
Isn't that like saying that you WANT the Megathron to be overpowered?
It's one thing to say "at 5km range", but that is only part of the equation...unless the Mega somehow magically appears at 5km, you MUST accept that the Mega will take damage as it tries to GET to that range. That's why I said make it tougher rather than boost the blasters.
And why "especially Raven"? Just because you don't like missiles?
Monty Pythons spoof of the EVE Forums;
Palin: "Is this the right room for an argument?"
Cleese: "I've told you once." |
Kalhystia
|
Posted - 2006.03.11 22:58:00 -
[149]
Originally by: Grey Area
unless the Mega somehow magically appears at 5km
Well the problem is: even if Mega appears at 5km with no damage, a Raven can still beat it eight time out of ten.
PS: calm down it's not a yelling contest . |
LUKEC
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Posted - 2006.03.12 00:45:00 -
[150]
Originally by: Grey Area
Originally by: LUKEC
Thing is: in 5km range ships should die to blasterthron... especially raven. But they don't.
Isn't that like saying that you WANT the Megathron to be overpowered?
It's one thing to say "at 5km range", but that is only part of the equation...unless the Mega somehow magically appears at 5km, you MUST accept that the Mega will take damage as it tries to GET to that range. That's why I said make it tougher rather than boost the blasters.
And why "especially Raven"? Just because you don't like missiles?
Point is: if fight starts in megathrons optimal, and both pilots have similar number of sp... and both have decent t1/t2 setup, then thron should beat raven easily. Because at 30km my guns don't work anymore. So tell me how should it work then?
And tbh, raven is just retarded. Where is precision ammo for guns? Why can't i 1 volley intys at 500m? Why do i need cap for my stupid guns? Why do i have to train all small gun specs before i can use bigger?... Get the point?
It just sucks to see how 1 race is favoured all the time while other races are struggling behind and ppl really have to adopt while others still have to do F1-F8 and just wait.
Originally by: Commander Nikolas
People like Lukec are the problem and they know it. Shin Ra's Raven has 4x WCS, Lukec's Dominix has 5x WCS & Ishtar has 2x WCS.
Antipiracy is causing brain damage |
j0sephine
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Posted - 2006.03.12 00:55:00 -
[151]
"And tbh, raven is just retarded. Where is precision ammo for guns? Why can't i 1 volley intys at 500m? Why do i need cap for my stupid guns? Why do i have to train all small gun specs before i can use bigger?... Get the point? "
Tbh from your own arguments your beef seems to be strictly with missiles not the Raven... tech.2 missiles in particular.
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LUKEC
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Posted - 2006.03.12 01:00:00 -
[152]
Originally by: j0sephine
"And tbh, raven is just retarded. Where is precision ammo for guns? Why can't i 1 volley intys at 500m? Why do i need cap for my stupid guns? Why do i have to train all small gun specs before i can use bigger?... Get the point? "
Tbh from your own arguments your beef seems to be strictly with missiles not the Raven... tech.2 missiles in particular.
Ok, how many other BS fit precision cruises these days? Scorps & typhoons maybe? When did you see phoon last time? I haven't seen any for long long time and even that one was smartbomber. I think i messed up with race...
Originally by: Commander Nikolas
People like Lukec are the problem and they know it. Shin Ra's Raven has 4x WCS, Lukec's Dominix has 5x WCS & Ishtar has 2x WCS.
Antipiracy is causing brain damage |
Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2006.03.12 01:02:00 -
[153]
Originally by: j0sephine
"And tbh, raven is just retarded. Where is precision ammo for guns? Why can't i 1 volley intys at 500m? Why do i need cap for my stupid guns? Why do i have to train all small gun specs before i can use bigger?... Get the point? "
Tbh from your own arguments your beef seems to be strictly with missiles not the Raven... tech.2 missiles in particular.
Mine IS with the missiles. Presision missiles. The damage ones are stupidly UNDERpowered - faction amo for guns is +20% damage with NO penalties...
Digital Communist> The Jin-Mei are probably more profficient in training for Tofu and Noodles than Spaceship Command |
j0sephine
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Posted - 2006.03.12 01:14:00 -
[154]
Edited by: j0sephine on 12/03/2006 01:15:00
"Ok, how many other BS fit precision cruises these days?"
You are missing the point. ^^;
every single reason that you pointed out as why Raven is "retarded" revolves around missiles. This means two things: one, that hitting the Raven with some sort of nerf still leaves intact the real cause of why it's "retarded", that is the "retarded" missiles. And two, that every single of these reasons applies equally on the lower ship class levels: missile battlecruisers, cruisers, destroyers and frigates benefit from them just as much as the missile battleship poster child does.
When you are done with crying about retarded Raven, will you cry about retarded Nighthawk, Ferox, Cerberus, Caracal, Flycatcher, Crow, Kestrel, and Manticore ... and demand them all to be also nerfed because smaller size missiles that still use no cap, still offer the precision variant and still allow faster skill training... make them "retarded" just as much..?
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Grey Area
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Posted - 2006.03.12 12:41:00 -
[155]
Edited by: Grey Area on 12/03/2006 12:45:35
Originally by: LUKEC
And tbh, raven is just retarded. Where is precision ammo for guns?
When your NORMAL ammo takes a 90% reduction (follow the link, put in 300 explosion radius (cruise) and 30 sig radius (frigate) on page 2/4 of the guide)in the damage it deals just because of a target's small size, maybe they will give you some. You'll have to pay twenty times the amount per shot for it though.
Originally by: LUKEC
Why can't i 1 volley intys at 500m?
Because you can one volley them at your optimal range with normal ammo. I'll admit I have not used the precision ammo because there is no way I'm paying those sort of prices for it (and I don't think prices will drop much, as I have seen what it takes to MAKE it). However I have put the stats into the calculator on the missile guide and from the results I still don't see that they are going to one shot frigates.
Originally by: LUKEC
Why do i need cap for my stupid guns?
As far as I know, guns have always used cap, same as missiles have always been shot down by defenders, and very difficult to deal a "killing blow" with, because you can see them coming for 20 seconds before they hit...plenty of time to warp out. Those are the drawbacks with the weapons system that YOU chose. Deal with it.
Originally by: LUKEC
Why do i have to train all small gun specs before i can use bigger?
Because you get more in return for the training. In each class of turret there are three variants, with four named varieties, so you get to use FIFTEEN weapons for your tech II specialisation. There is ONE launcher in each missile class, plus four variants, so we only get FIVE weapons.
One point I will agree with you on...the Raven is a ridiculously easy ship to fit. Launchers, tank, BCU's and power diags. I don't like this any more than you do. Now tell me what I should DO about it? Fit an armour repairer? If CCP give us more modules that can vary what we can do with the ship, you might see some more variation in the Ravens out there.
The problem with the Raven stems from this lack of choice. If you boost the Mega to beat it, you will beat it EVERY time. We can't get "creative" with our fit out to do more damage, tank more damage, or make you less effective. The only way a Mega is going to LOSE to a Raven at that point, is if the Mega pilot stuffs up his fit out. So combat between the two entirely excludes the Raven Pilot, and is controlled only by the Mega Pilot. Wheee. What an exciting game that will be.
Monty Pythons spoof of the EVE Forums;
Palin: "Is this the right room for an argument?"
Cleese: "I've told you once." |
LUKEC
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Posted - 2006.03.12 13:02:00 -
[156]
raven should use variety of setups... i agree with that. As it would make it less i can kill everything with 1 setup thing.
About number of things you get with spec. ... you actually have a point there.
Originally by: Commander Nikolas
People like Lukec are the problem and they know it. Shin Ra's Raven has 4x WCS, Lukec's Dominix has 5x WCS & Ishtar has 2x WCS.
Antipiracy is causing brain damage |
Shibby DoWa
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Posted - 2006.03.12 13:05:00 -
[157]
LUKEC
Arcane Technologies
The Five
ok now I've seen everything :)
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2006.03.12 14:30:00 -
[158]
"Oh and j0... please tell me where can i get 20% better antimatter. I'd love it. I have only seen 10% am and even that is pain to get. And costs more than void anyway."
Well... i presume you mean 20% better as in the amount of damage done. And it was Maya who talked of it, but anyway:
void: 32 + 28, anitmatter: 20 + 28 ... 60 / 48 = 25% extra
and yes, this comes with penalties but then so do the high damage missiles. That out of the way, please show me where in turn i can find the missile equivalent of that 10% extra faction ammo with no penalties on them whatsoever... that's right, there isn't any.
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Grey Area
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Posted - 2006.03.12 14:48:00 -
[159]
Originally by: LUKEC
About number of things you get with spec. ... you actually have a point there.
And with that single comment, LUKEC singlehandedly pwns the forums.
It is the RAREST thing on here to have someone post to say they see their opponent's point of view.
I salute you.
Monty Pythons spoof of the EVE Forums;
Palin: "Is this the right room for an argument?"
Cleese: "I've told you once." |
Odda
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Posted - 2006.03.12 18:13:00 -
[160]
btw has any one stared testing them? or did Tomb just say somting again?
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Shibby DoWa
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Posted - 2006.03.12 18:54:00 -
[161]
erm, what?
Frigate (small) Launchers: Rockets (close), Standard (long)
Cruiser (medium) Launchers: Asssault (close, assault missiles soon), Heavy (long)
Battleship (large) Launchers: Siege (close), Cruise (long)
The difference is, missile users can pick and chose what they wish to spec in, while turret users have to spec in small and medium before they can get large.
In the end though, I think the skill times to get all t2 launchers is higher for all t2 turrets, but I could be wrong?
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2006.03.12 19:10:00 -
[162]
Edited by: j0sephine on 12/03/2006 19:10:55
"The difference is, missile users can pick and chose what they wish to spec in, while turret users have to spec in small and medium before they can get large."
Yes, though on the other hand while turret user only needs to max out single basic (tech.1 weapon operation) skill to branch into both short and long range specializations for that weapon type, the missile user needs to train two different 'basic' missile skills to cover both options.
In the end it comes to very similar amounts of points needed to get similarly flexible (in terms of weapon use) character. Missiles make very narrow specialization easier, but very narrow specialization is hardly something to get excited about, in the end...
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ChalSto
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Posted - 2006.03.12 22:58:00 -
[163]
Hey TomB!
You have forgot or blasters......it seems so.
oh well......ok then.......
.......IŠll fly with my NOS-ECM-Drone-Domi the time, since the day you fix our blasters..........
.......it seems, that many of your lovely RavenŠs will die to it at these time
Anybody else got that feeling, that heŠll fix-nerf them?
Current Location: Relax and drinking a beer with Dreez and waiting for TomBŠs Blaster changes |
Sarmaul
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Posted - 2006.03.12 23:17:00 -
[164]
Originally by: ChalSto
Hey TomB!
You have forgot or blasters......it seems so.
you need to train forum whoring to 5 :)
blasters, phoon, assault frigs and other outstanding balance issues are going to be fixed in the "next non-bug-fixing patch", whenever the hell that's going to be released
__________________________________________________
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BlueOrca
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Posted - 2006.03.13 08:18:00 -
[165]
Morning Bump!
Just because I like LUKEC and what he says!
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Nadec Ascand
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Posted - 2006.03.13 09:38:00 -
[166]
Originally by: Grey Area
Originally by: LUKEC
Why can't i 1 volley intys at 500m?
Because you can one volley them at your optimal range with normal ammo. I'll admit I have not used the precision ammo because there is no way I'm paying those sort of prices for it (and I don't think prices will drop much, as I have seen what it takes to MAKE it). However I have put the stats into the calculator on the missile guide and from the results I still don't see that they are going to one shot frigates.
Wish i could hit an inty at optimal range... when i have hard time hitting a cruiser... dont forget tracking...
Originally by: Grey Area
Originally by: LUKEC
Why do i need cap for my stupid guns?
As far as I know, guns have always used cap, same as missiles have always been shot down by defenders, and very difficult to deal a "killing blow" with, because you can see them coming for 20 seconds before they hit...plenty of time to warp out. Those are the drawbacks with the weapons system that YOU chose. Deal with it.
He was talking about cap booster, we need to use cap booster to sustain guns cap use, not even talking about repaier/ mwd here, just put the guns on wait 50s then need cap...
Originally by: Grey Area
Originally by: LUKEC
Why do i have to train all small gun specs before i can use bigger?
Because you get more in return for the training. In each class of turret there are three variants, with four named varieties, so you get to use FIFTEEN weapons for your tech II specialisation. There is ONE launcher in each missile class, plus four variants, so we only get FIVE weapons.
We dont get 15weapon by spec. we barely get 3 from each spec, remember that we have a short and long range spec, 2 skill for 1 weapon size.
u got fof and missile T2 and launcher for each spec.
get the T2 skills for rail hybrid med it cost sharshooter 4 small rail spec 4 small hybrid 5 med hybrid 5.
for heavy fof and missiles it cost heavy missile 5
OMG our war have been hijack -eris
What 0_o LMAO Nadec 4TW - Vanamonde
Here start a new WAR => X - Wrangler
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Grey Area
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Posted - 2006.03.13 10:14:00 -
[167]
Yes, sorry, I made a mistake...no named versions of Tech II equipment out (yet) of course.
But it still applies...you get THREE guns for T2, we get ONE launcher for T2. Yes, we get FOFs...but there is a skill for that too you know, and unless you have that to level 5, FoFs are the suck (some woudl say even WITH level 5).
I don't see any Faction Missiles anywhere either...but plenty of faction ammo.
Monty Pythons spoof of the EVE Forums;
Palin: "Is this the right room for an argument?"
Cleese: "I've told you once." |
LUKEC
|
Posted - 2006.03.13 10:41:00 -
[168]
look at medium beams II or 250mm artys II
you don't really gain more than 1 gun by specializations...
Except in case of hybrids.
Originally by: Commander Nikolas
People like Lukec are the problem and they know it. Shin Ra's Raven has 4x WCS, Lukec's Dominix has 5x WCS & Ishtar has 2x WCS.
Antipiracy is causing brain damage |
Grey Area
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Posted - 2006.03.13 10:48:00 -
[169]
Originally by: LUKEC
look at medium beams II or 250mm artys II
you don't really gain more than 1 gun by specializations...
Except in case of hybrids.
Medium Beams
Focussed Medium Beam Laser II
Heavy Beam Laser II
Quad Light Beam Laser II
Small Artillery
250mm Light Artillery Cannon II
280mm Howitzer Artillery II
OK, so small artillery you only get two weapons...it's still double what missile users get.
Monty Pythons spoof of the EVE Forums;
Palin: "Is this the right room for an argument?"
Cleese: "I've told you once." |
Ithildin
|
Posted - 2006.03.13 10:49:00 -
[170]
These are a few comments to the sixth page of this thred.
1. The problem isn't the Raven, the Raven is part of the problem, but not the cause. Please - we have plenty enough Raven vs. threds in the past.
2. While missiles get a -90% damage penalty versus an interceptor, Grey Area, turrets do not hit at all at their optimal range or closer. Even with optimal boosted significantly, it's difficult to impossible to hit if the interceptor has a few "greys". This "problem" is because missiles do not get a precision bonus on targets with significantly slow (relative) speed, and is not a problem with the turrets.
3. Missiles have only been shot down by defenders because a) you were shotting at NPCs or b) you were shooting at a ship which couldn't fit anything in the last high and bothered with defenders. The trade off to defenders is, in fact, FOF missiles, by the way, since torpedoes require not one, but three defenders to shoot down (meaning even rocket launcher defenders won't do very much good)
4. The increased return (in number of weapon options) of training gunnery is merely a percieved bonus. It has the effect that devs spend less time tweaking and optimizing turrets because people can just take a step down to the next turret if the largest (or in some cases second largest) doesn't fit.
5. The training times for speccing turrets versus missiles are similar and comparable, the training trees are different. So what?
6. TomB's also promised to do a massive over-haul to the loot system (this is NOT read as "loot table") since it's FUBARed. This overhaul is said to contain goodies like an effort in rebalance and diversify faction modules and faction drops.
- The T2 ammo gripe. -
T2 rocketry versus close range ammo goes a little like this (skipping rage since they're "fine"):
Precision ammo (vs AM) - -8% damage, +25% total range
Precision rocketry - -0% damage, +300% range (ignoring flight-time), -20% ship velocity, +100% tracking (exp vel), +25% general tracking (exp rad)
So, in other words, the torps get no damage penalty and a massive boost to both range and "tracking" over the blasters/ACs, all for the price of slower ship speed?
- An idea for multi-launchers -
Simply have all launchers have a damage modifier. This damage modifier is scaled similar to how the turret's damage modifiers are scaled. Same goes for rate of fire. Since the missiles shouldn't (for balance's sake) be altered in their range/velocity, the increased damage returns of "larger" launchers should be slightly penalized (this is due to a VERY large part of the decision to fit 425mm over 350mm is that the 425mm has such a longer reach. For example)
- An idea for defenders -
Scrap them. Make a utility-slot flak cannon, which auto-targets the targeting patterns of missiles AND DRONES. Tracking should be optimized for heavy drones (~280 m/s orbit velocity, 125m sig radius) due to decreased hit points of smaller ones.
Stats: 30 CPU, 50 PG. High slot, and no hard point. Uses flak ammunition (defenders are directly converted to this). Does around 300 dps (+5% per level) with a range of 3-4km and works even though jammed.
Missiles need about 2.5 times as much HP - one such nullify one T1/Rage torp per volley or kills one max-skilled ogre every 10 seconds.
Originally by: KilROCK
Originally by: Arkanor
Gallente missileboat might be cool.
Pod yourself till you got no skills.[ |
Grey Area
|
Posted - 2006.03.13 11:08:00 -
[171]
Edited by: Grey Area on 13/03/2006 11:10:30
Points.
2. My CEO can instakill interceptors and frigates in an Apoc with BEAM weapons (note, not even the faster-tracking pulse) so to say they "do not hit at all" is at best an exaggeration, at worst an untruth. He can do this substantially within his optimal range, though I admit, there comes a point where he cannot hit them at all. The reason I think this is unbalanced is quite simply this...an interceptor approaching from long range has a CHANCE (admittedly, instakills do not happen EVERY time) that it simply will never get close to a turret ship as it gets blown out of the sky. Thus, there is a chance that it will NEVER have an effect. The same interceptor approaching a missile ship (Raven) will ALWAYS get to the range it requires to have an effect.
3. The fact that pilots regard defenders as an afterthought is not an excuse for ignoring them. I can't complain that your guns are overpowered, just because I "couldn't be bothered" to tank my shields. I don't understand what you mean by FOFs countering defenders???
4. The ability to take the "step down to the next LAUNCHER" would be something I would dearly love.
5. Number of skill points between turrets and launchers is I think, identical. *edit - removed idiotic statement from here*
Now then, having disagreed with some of your initial points, I find your suggestions afterward to be most agreeable.
Launchers with variable damage modifiers? Yes please!
Direct fire defenders that also affect drones? Yes please! (dependant on effectivity of course!) Personally I think to kill one drone per ten seconds is a bit quick, don't you? If a missile user survives this engagement, he would at least still be ready for the next...a drone user would very likely have to go back to a station to re-arm.
Monty Pythons spoof of the EVE Forums;
Palin: "Is this the right room for an argument?"
Cleese: "I've told you once." |
LUKEC
|
Posted - 2006.03.13 11:14:00 -
[172]
2. If inty pilot has few greys... he won't hit nothing. End of discussion.
Originally by: Commander Nikolas
People like Lukec are the problem and they know it. Shin Ra's Raven has 4x WCS, Lukec's Dominix has 5x WCS & Ishtar has 2x WCS.
Antipiracy is causing brain damage |
Nadec Ascand
|
Posted - 2006.03.13 12:52:00 -
[173]
Originally by: Grey Area
Edited by: Grey Area on 13/03/2006 11:10:30
Points.
2. My CEO can instakill interceptors and frigates in an Apoc with BEAM weapons (note, not even the faster-tracking pulse) so to say they "do not hit at all" is at best an exaggeration, at worst an untruth. He can do this substantially within his optimal range, though I admit, there comes a point where he cannot hit them at all.
be serious how can u compare Beam to Blaster....
His optimal is at least 30km, mine is max 13,5km...
did u hear something about transversal velocity?
In any case tracking is important only coz of range.
In my eagle even with 0.0012 tracking i can insta pop any eagle at 200km...
and thats 40x below blaster tracking...
all is a matter of tranversal velocity and range.
Make ur ceo try to fire an inty at 7-10km where the megatron setup come to be effective... not even talking about an inty coming up with a tracking disruptor aboard...
OMG our war have been hijack -eris
What 0_o LMAO Nadec 4TW - Vanamonde
Here start a new WAR => X - Wrangler
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Kunming
|
Posted - 2006.03.13 13:12:00 -
[174]
CCP pls tell us you guys gonna fix deimos fitting and mass, plueeaaase!
Everytime I think of quiting EVE, I look at my deimos
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Friendly
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Posted - 2006.03.14 15:45:00 -
[175]
Originally by: TomB
Blasters are getting looked into for next patch, there was not enough time to get them fixed for the Blood patch. Aiming for tests to start on SiSi in the upcoming week, you will see a post from a dev once it's on.
*cough*
Still w8ing for that post...
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Odda
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Posted - 2006.03.14 18:50:00 -
[176]
Originally by: Friendly
Originally by: TomB
Blasters are getting looked into for next patch, there was not enough time to get them fixed for the Blood patch. Aiming for tests to start on SiSi in the upcoming week, you will see a post from a dev once it's on.
*cough*
Still w8ing for that post...
I think he forgot the mega, and rather whent to nerf the domenix. 
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Porro
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Posted - 2006.03.14 19:01:00 -
[177]
Edited by: Porro on 14/03/2006 19:03:58
On the old, thron v raven debate, "the raven usually wins because it can just tank better with a few slots than the thron can" - j0 :P. It also depends on the starting range etc.
Also when was the last time you've seen faction multispectral L, or antimatter L?
And you can't compare those to t2 ammo as ive never seen them readily available in empire for me to buy off the market in nice big stacks.
PS nurf caldari please
PPS nurf j0 too
----------------------------------------------------
(22:01:14) (Sangxianc) you, porro, have madder skillzors than i, sang, do
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Odda
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Posted - 2006.03.17 09:29:00 -
[178]
Think they forgot us again...
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DJTheBaron
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Posted - 2006.03.17 10:06:00 -
[179]
i cant bloody wait for this fix, for one simply reason, i have been listening to dreezez foreign whiney voice **** and moan about the blasterthron not being viable enough via teamspeak since my days with him in oc, suprm and now atuk, for gods sake shut him up arrggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggg
hes really only a nub with lv2 galante bs and lv1 large hybrid with no other gunnary skills
and has the worst taste in music ever
__________________________________________________
Scum, your all scum. |
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