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Tiuwaz
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Posted - 2006.03.05 23:47:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Tiuwaz on 05/03/2006 23:48:19
 Originally by: Vyanna Mal
Out of curiousity, what shhould be trained first? Large Proj to level V or the BattleShip skill to level V?
Large Proj is rank 5 and BS is rank 8, you get more from your training time if you get BS 5 first imo (if we are talking about tempest specifically), but its not a " should be trained before.."
Edited: if you got all other preqs for large arty/ac spec then i'd train large proj V first
Originally by: Oveur
****! Lets nerf it!
To the nerfmobile!
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Haniblecter Teg
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Posted - 2006.03.05 23:55:00 -
[32]
Large specialize takes about 2-2.5 months. BS 5 is another month or so.
If you feel reeeally commited towards getting those T2 guns and BS5, go ahead. I have cooler htings to train in that 1/4 of a year.
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Friends Forever |
Matrices Reborn
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Posted - 2006.03.05 23:59:00 -
[33]
Originally by: xaioguai
1400 tempest is good only at alpha strike. imho, without 17 damage mod, its not worth fitting 1400s. the way of using it is to kill before they come too close. but while you do full shield tanking with 1400s, you will get mostly miss below 30km and your range won't be too impressive either. at the end, your hit area will be very narrow (area between 60km-40km)and yet with 13 damage mod and 11 rof, you can hardly kill an approaching BS or cruisers.
I think it may be better if you do full shield tanking with 1200s, they sux, but with better tracking and less fitting req, may work better with full shield tank and no tracking computers.
I agreed before that 13 damage mod. is not good enough. I will train up large proj.,surg. strike and bs to level 5 but t2 will have to wait because I dont want to train t2 medium and small proj. I guess I will get it with below avg. skills and use it for ratting. While doing that I will train up the necessary skills.
Originally by: Tiuwaz
Matrices you have already your opinion, go rat with 1400's
you havent been in fleetbattles you prolly have never pvped with an arty tempest, otherwise you'd know why t2 guns are great and why the t2 ammo is of use
you dont need 30 million skillpoints to fly a tempest and kill stuff, but dont expect it to perform that well with 6 mill sp or less.
being able to kill stuff doesnt mean its good, its about the efficency, even with good skills i wouldnt recommend ratting with 1400 >_>
but plz go out there and get some experiences yourself with a tempest
Thats a good idea but now that you guys have drilled into my head how many skills you need I will either do what I said above,rat and train skills, or think about get a different ship that is useful and will act as a midwaypoint to the tempest in terms of skills.Any suggestions?
BTW I have seen fleet action and I've seen tempests rat and do pvp.
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Matrices Reborn
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Posted - 2006.03.06 00:12:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Haniblecter Teg
Large specialize takes about 2-2.5 months. BS 5 is another month or so.
If you feel reeeally commited towards getting those T2 guns and BS5, go ahead. I have cooler htings to train in that 1/4 of a year.
my point exactly
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Tiuwaz
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Posted - 2006.03.06 00:17:00 -
[35]
i started to fly a tempest regularily once i had BS 4 and 2 mill in gunnery (all skills at lvl 4 except gunnery, weapon upgrades at 5)
(+good armour tanking skills)
i'd say thats a starting point for using the Tempest, from there keep slowly improving it and you'll feel those improvements, trust me
( and i ratted with ac's and armour tank )
Originally by: Oveur
****! Lets nerf it!
To the nerfmobile!
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Matrices Reborn
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Posted - 2006.03.06 01:11:00 -
[36]
I don't think its a good idea to armour tank with arty because 3 are used for gyro stabs and you don't have the pg for the repairers.
My Improved Tempest setup
Highs:
6x scout arty cannons ftw!(loaded with phased plasma)
2x named heavy nos-for nosing drones
Mids:
t2 tracking comp
target painter
2x invul. fields or whatever combo of hardeners that makes you fell safe inside
t2 large shieldbooster
Lows:
3x gyro stabilizer
3x pds t2
Interesting AC setup
Highs:
6x 650mm scout repeating artillery
2x named nos
Mids:
3x hynos multi-specs
Booster rocket ab
Epsilon warp prohibitor
Lows:
2x t2 gyrostabs
t2 adaptive nano
explosive hardener
2x large armour repairer t2
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On the Arty setup the pds are to add pg and a source of cap. The nos is to suck the drones of cap which will be 2 large shield drone and 5 light drones against inties.
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For the Ac setup I thonk it's unique because you get really good jamming(60% avg. chance) combined with a good tank combined with good gank. I think this setup will own solo. and in fleet because who suspects a tempest of jamming? If the AC's can't track well have couple webber drones and 5 light drones once again.
Comments?
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Tiuwaz
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Posted - 2006.03.06 01:17:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Tiuwaz on 06/03/2006 01:17:43
yeah you normaly shield tank with arty in pve, ( but then i dont pve with arties ) in pvp you dont tank at all if you are sniping, you'll have perhaps some sort of armour rep but thats all
check the RMR thread for some setups for tempests
Originally by: Oveur
****! Lets nerf it!
To the nerfmobile!
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Leandro Salazar
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Posted - 2006.03.06 01:21:00 -
[38]
The AC setup needs a webber and the tank sucks. Even with 2 NOS not enough cap to run two large reppers and the resists will suck with only one nanoplating and one exp hard (BIG hole in kin/therm, anything with blasters will pwn you). And these days imho every armor tank needs a damage control, they add 50-60% structure resist to everything now and it actually works.
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Evacuate? In our moment of triumph? |
Vathar
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Posted - 2006.03.06 01:26:00 -
[39]
Having started as an underskilled tempest pilot, I can tell that it's definitely a skill intensive ship.
- It can shield or armor tank, and while you can discard one kinf of tanking, it's basically closing a door and losing versatility
- If you plan to pvp, it means that you're bound to lose ships and modules, a 1400 scout arty probably costs around 35M, while you can find 1400 T2 around 6M ... I'm not really rich enough to fit a "full scout" setup, and T2 looks nice too :)
- decent EW platform, having missile skills can be useful too, especially when compared to non caldari/minmatar BS who don't really need to use missiles ...
- hopefully, its crappy dronebay means that you don't really need uber drone skills since you won't really be able to use them effectively
so yes, you can build a one-dimension fit using only a few options the tempest offers, but if you want to have a truly versatile ship, you need to have a broader set of skills, and broader than any other BS, except maybe the phoon
Oh, and building a ship with quickfit is useful, but you have to fly an artypest to realise how arty is hard to use ...
However, I'll admit that there's some over elitism when people say that you need BS.5 and complementary gunnery skills at 5 to be decent. I have no doubt that a fully trained Bs pilot (all skills at 5) would be at a distinct advantage vs a "mostly 4" pilot, but said "mostly 4" pilot would still be a decent tempest pilot.
somebody said that he used skills at 3, IMO this starts to be a bit low to compete with better trained pilots, I have no doubt that it'll work in pve, but you'll probably want to go for a "mostly 4" kind of training rather quickly ...
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Space Shaman
http://www.elegance-corp.net/images/sig/vat-sig.jpg
Don't take life seriously, you'll not survive it anyway
Erf, my sig is 240003 bytes wide; that's 3 byt |
Vathar
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Posted - 2006.03.06 01:32:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Matrices Reborn
I don't think its a good idea to armour tank with arty because 3 are used for gyro stabs and you don't have the pg for the repairers.
[SNIP]
---------------------------------------------------------
For the Ac setup I thonk it's unique because you get really good jamming(60% avg. chance) combined with a good tank combined with good gank. I think this setup will own solo. and in fleet because who suspects a tempest of jamming? If the AC's can't track well have couple webber drones and 5 light drones once again.
Comments?
If you use arty in pve, you won't take too much damage, so a "light" armor tank combined with adequate hardeners is more than enough. since I pve in 0.0, I usually use an hybrid pvp/e setup with a strong enough anti-inty defense, in case I miss the first ceptor of a roaming squad entering my system. I don't really need a fully dedicated pve setup to kill rats in belts, so I have more options availiable
As for the "who suspects a tempest of jamming" ... I would say that fitting EW on a pest is not THAT unusual...
____________
Space Shaman
http://www.elegance-corp.net/images/sig/vat-sig.jpg
Don't take life seriously, you'll not survive it anyway
Erf, my sig is 240003 bytes wide; that's 3 byt |
Matrices Reborn
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Posted - 2006.03.06 01:40:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Matrices Reborn on 06/03/2006 01:41:27
Do you need to have tons of skills for AC's as well? I hope not.
Why not shield tank for the arty setup. I don't plan on sniping. Although using phased plasma gives me an optimal of 40 km which I don't think is enough. Adding another tracking comp. gives an extra 7km. Any suggestions for good ammo types to use.
Btw for the ac setup you could get rid of a repairer for a another hardener but there isn't any room for damage control.
My arty setup is meant for pvp
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Leandro Salazar
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Posted - 2006.03.06 01:52:00 -
[42]
Use a damage control instead of the adaptive nano maybe? Personally though I would use only one damage mod, one repper and 3 active hards + DC. Maybe no damage mod and an adaptive nano to make a reasonably hard allround tank.
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Evacuate? In our moment of triumph? |
Tiuwaz
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Posted - 2006.03.06 02:12:00 -
[43]
i give you one tip, when making a setup or asking a setup you have 2 choices to make:
longrange or short range, pve or pvp,
THEN state that you want a setup for pvp longrange for example,
or if you give a setup THEN state for what it should be used
Originally by: Oveur
****! Lets nerf it!
To the nerfmobile!
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Matrices Reborn
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Posted - 2006.03.06 02:38:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Matrices Reborn on 06/03/2006 02:40:26
I want a long range setup for pvp in a fleet or small gang with a half decent tank.
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Tiuwaz
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Posted - 2006.03.06 02:41:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Matrices Reborn
I want a long range setup for pvp in a fleet or small gang
high: 6x 1400 2x whatever (i use rocket launchers normally, nos is common aswell if you can fit it)
meds: 2x sensor booster II 3x tracking compsII
lows: rep (whatever size fits), 3x Gyro II, Damage Control, Ladar backup Array ( or rcu if you need one)
Originally by: Oveur
****! Lets nerf it!
To the nerfmobile!
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Tiuwaz
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Posted - 2006.03.06 02:43:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Matrices Reborn
Edited by: Matrices Reborn on 06/03/2006 02:40:26
I want a long range setup for pvp in a fleet or small gang with a half decent tank.
you dont tank longrange battleships in pvp
Originally by: Oveur
****! Lets nerf it!
To the nerfmobile!
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Ratey
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Posted - 2006.03.06 11:34:00 -
[47]
1400mm scouts are nice, but then you'll invest over 200 mil in guns only. )you will need uber isk generating skills(
So waiting for T2 gunnery skills is more realistic imo.
(which requires uber skills imo, so cant get around it imo)
(great info, thanks to all.)
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Shidhe
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Posted - 2006.03.06 11:34:00 -
[48]
Sensor booster is a very good idea for PvP, and also for long range setups. The PDUs may not be doing much good - you could try more damage mods or tracking enhancers in lows, and put something else in mids to replace the tracking comps.. AB, shield expander, ...
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Max Teranous
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Posted - 2006.03.06 11:51:00 -
[49]
One thing I'd definately suggest to the OP is that you get experience PvPing with frigs or cruisers before you go into PvP with a 300 mil tempest setup. Most of your posts in this thread give the impression of lack of real experience. Unless you happen to have stacks of ISK to burn, you can make all your mistakes learning the ropes in cheap ships and see how others use their battleships before you try it yourself.
You will lose ships, trust me on this one. On to my 12th Rifter in 2 months ! 
Max 
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who'syodaddy
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Posted - 2006.03.06 11:52:00 -
[50]
the answer : get in an inty, fly as a tackler for your fleet.
Make isk with all the cash NOT spent on 'scout' 1400mm's, next month, buy 25 mil SP char with isk.
now buy tempest and wtfpwn. 
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Varis
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Posted - 2006.03.06 11:57:00 -
[51]
off topic a bit - but i love this thread :)
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Imhotep Khem
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Posted - 2006.03.06 14:24:00 -
[52]
T2 guns is easier than BS 5. T2 guns are better than 'scouts' because the advanced skills that only apply to T2 guns. T2 guns are vastly cheaper than scouts.
BS5 should be 10.25% more damage.
Minmatar require high guns skills because projectiles are weak guns. The ship is supposed to make up for the weakness of the guns with a gun bonus. This is to keep Amarr from trying to use Projectiles.
In the end, the Republic can't wait till you get BS 5. So get in a ship and start shootin stuff.
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If your not dyin' your not tryin'. |
Matrices Reborn
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Posted - 2006.03.06 20:10:00 -
[53]
thanks for all your help and opinions guys.
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Beowulf Scheafer
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Posted - 2006.03.06 20:34:00 -
[54]
Edited by: Beowulf Scheafer on 06/03/2006 20:35:18
i'm not able to use a tempest at all. but i recently checked some of you wrote in here that bs 5 is not worth training it. i'm mostly a megatron pilot, and i trained not only that skill on 5 (i actually have 2 bs on 5), i even trained the large gunspec on 5.
it is a very long time to train, i know it. but i would like to admit that it is not only worth the training, it is the most important step of skilltraining. the large gun spec on 5 is just 2% more dmg, but it is 2% more dmg than most of my opponents have .
the point is with bs on 5 on a tempest you can get 10.25xxxxx% more dmg without using another lowslot for a mod. and thats the point. the last 5% (or even 2) are always thoose that might make u stronger than your opponent. everybody has bs on 4 ( and a pretty large bunch allready has it on 5). the tempest is the only ship that has 2 times damagerelevant boni on it, so it is definately worth training it, more than on any other ship...
http://www.wonderlands.org/file/test1.jpg
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