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Tappits
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
26
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Posted - 2013.12.14 10:56:00 -
[1] - Quote
Take Note:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=61une0e-hq4&list=UUKab3hYnOoTZZbEUQBMx-ww#t=369
Pay to win = Loose. |
Ramona McCandless
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
1424
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Posted - 2013.12.14 10:59:00 -
[2] - Quote
Wow
That's that multimillion dollar industry quashed
Who knew You Tube was so powerful Non omnis moriar |
WASPY69
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
65
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Posted - 2013.12.14 11:08:00 -
[3] - Quote
Please give us all an example where you can spend real life money to gain an unfair advantage in EVE that you CAN'T achieve through spending isk on that very same item(s). I have a monocle, your argument is invalid. |
Thebriwan
LUX Uls Xystus
148
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Posted - 2013.12.14 11:11:00 -
[4] - Quote
The problem that this guy don't see is the following:
Once, in the old days, there were gamers and other people. Gamers played on computers, consoles and on tabletops. AND THE GAMES WERE COMPLEX AND HARD! In fact so complex and hard that "the other people" could not play them.
Nowadays "the other people" have smart phones and tablets and they have money, too. And the gaming industry makes games for them. Games that are incredibly easy, where you can progress faster with money, where you can buy success.
The problem is: the gamers are a minority. And the gaming industry is a BUSINESS.
How does Marx would describe the situation? Accumulation of capital? Maximization of profit?
"The other people" win, the gamers loose. |
Sulliva Slake
EVE University Ivy League
21
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Posted - 2013.12.14 11:13:00 -
[5] - Quote
WASPY69 wrote:Please give us all an example where you can spend real life money to gain an unfair advantage in EVE that you CAN'T achieve through spending isk on that very same item(s). I have a monocle, your argument is invalid.
OK that is a pretty easy question to answer
buy plex + buy a char with said plex = P2W
But eve is a game that I really come to escape the major P2W sources like WoT, Planetside 2 (even they arn't as bad as others)
but really if somone goes and buys a 100 mil SP account in eve they will still suck becuse eve is just not the regular FPS game like otehrs where if your good at CoD your good at all of em
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Ramona McCandless
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
1425
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Posted - 2013.12.14 11:16:00 -
[6] - Quote
Sulliva Slake wrote:
buy plex + buy a char with said plex = P2W
but really if somone goes and buys a 100 mil SP account in eve they will still suck
These are mutually exclusive statements
Non omnis moriar |
Tappits
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
26
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Posted - 2013.12.14 11:17:00 -
[7] - Quote
EvE-Online is not yet a full FTP game but Dust is. And itGÇÖs still a quite interesting video nun the less. |
Ramona McCandless
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
1426
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Posted - 2013.12.14 11:32:00 -
[8] - Quote
Tappits wrote:nun the less.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-C5cX7vZ12tA/Tcd40BxuyfI/AAAAAAAAA7I/AQ7AzhXGgBg/s1600/xombi_5.jpg Non omnis moriar |
Remiel Pollard
Shockwave Innovations Surely You're Joking
2124
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Posted - 2013.12.14 11:41:00 -
[9] - Quote
Sulliva Slake wrote:
buy plex + buy a char with said plex = P2W
Wrong. First of all, a high-skilled toon in the hands of someone unfamiliar with EVE is not going to win squat. Second, you can't win EVE. You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
Dalmont Delantee
Rim Worlds Republic SpaceMonkey's Alliance
219
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Posted - 2013.12.14 11:46:00 -
[10] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Sulliva Slake wrote:
buy plex + buy a char with said plex = P2W
Wrong. First of all, a high-skilled toon in the hands of someone unfamiliar with EVE is not going to win squat. Second, you can't win EVE.
I second this, I own a high-skilled toon and I still suck. Have sucked since 2004 |
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Remiel Pollard
Shockwave Innovations Surely You're Joking
2124
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Posted - 2013.12.14 11:50:00 -
[11] - Quote
Dalmont Delantee wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:Sulliva Slake wrote:
buy plex + buy a char with said plex = P2W
Wrong. First of all, a high-skilled toon in the hands of someone unfamiliar with EVE is not going to win squat. Second, you can't win EVE. I second this, I own a high-skilled toon and I still suck. Have sucked since 2004
Well that's just because you're in SpaceMonkeys You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
Dalmont Delantee
Rim Worlds Republic SpaceMonkey's Alliance
219
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Posted - 2013.12.14 11:52:00 -
[12] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Dalmont Delantee wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:Sulliva Slake wrote:
buy plex + buy a char with said plex = P2W
Wrong. First of all, a high-skilled toon in the hands of someone unfamiliar with EVE is not going to win squat. Second, you can't win EVE. I second this, I own a high-skilled toon and I still suck. Have sucked since 2004 Well that's just because you're in SpaceMonkeys
I sucked before space monkey's :P |
bloodknight2
Talledega Knights PLEASE NOT VIOLENCE OUR BOATS
304
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Posted - 2013.12.14 12:15:00 -
[13] - Quote
I have nothing against micro transaction if they do not hurt the game. GT6's micro transaction killed the game. Same for DLC. You know there is a problem when a DLC is available the day the game is launch. I wouldn't mind if Eve had micro transaction like new skins for ships or a plex to have back the old damnation model (because YES, the new one sucks). |
WASPY69
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
67
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Posted - 2013.12.14 12:17:00 -
[14] - Quote
Sulliva Slake wrote:WASPY69 wrote:Please give us all an example where you can spend real life money to gain an unfair advantage in EVE that you CAN'T achieve through spending isk on that very same item(s). I have a monocle, your argument is invalid. OK that is a pretty easy question to answer buy plex + buy a char with said plex = P2W But eve is a game that I really come to escape the major P2W sources like WoT, Planetside 2 (even they arn't as bad as others) but really if somone goes and buys a 100 mil SP account in eve they will still suck becuse eve is just not the regular FPS game like otehrs where if your good at CoD your good at all of em You just confirmed my post. You can either buy plex, OR you can grind in game to get the same isk. Pay to win would suggest the only way to win would be by paying. Which isn't the case in EVE as you can work your way to billionaire using nothing but in game mechanics. And every single item within EVE is purchasable with in game money. |
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
574
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Posted - 2013.12.14 12:41:00 -
[15] - Quote
bloodknight2 wrote:I have nothing against micro transaction if they do not hurt the game. GT6's micro transaction killed the game. Same for DLC. You know there is a problem when a DLC is available the day the game is launch. I wouldn't mind if Eve had micro transaction like new skins for ships or a plex to have back the old damnation model (because YES, the new one sucks). You missed the point the video was making; If you support it when it doesn't compromise the game, then they'll start compromising the game to try to get more out of you. Sometimes the slippery slope is actually a thing. [img]http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sig.php?r=*rnd*[/img] Desusigs can be seen on the terribad new forums using bbcode enabling script (scroll down to my post for sig rotation) |
Bel Tika
Deep Fried Industries
38
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Posted - 2013.12.14 12:53:00 -
[16] - Quote
I agree with the guy on micro-transactions, i dont agree with the OP with it in concern to eve |
Xavier Higdon
Wolfbane Hauler Inc
227
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Posted - 2013.12.14 13:39:00 -
[17] - Quote
EvE isn't Pay to Win. World of Tanks, Planes and Automobiles is Pay to Win. The developer of that game has clearly stated that in order to compete you must use microtransactions. After reviewing what Gold is used for in that game, I decided to never play it. You need Gold to progress at a reasonable rate, to customize tanks(as you lose anything you replace unless you use Gold) and you even need Gold to start a clan before you can pay to compete. Wolfbane Hauler Inc Looking For Combat And Industrial Pilots |
ElQuirko
The Scope Gallente Federation
2765
|
Posted - 2013.12.14 16:33:00 -
[18] - Quote
Thebriwan wrote:How does Marx would describe the situation?
Has Anyone Really Been Far Even as Decided to Nothing to Lose But Their Chains Workers Of The World Unite? Dodixie > Hek |
Ramona McCandless
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
1437
|
Posted - 2013.12.14 16:46:00 -
[19] - Quote
Thebriwan wrote:How does Marx would describe the situation?
"Im off to play Sim City on the SNES with Dickens. Leave me alone" Non omnis moriar |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
9031
|
Posted - 2013.12.14 16:50:00 -
[20] - Quote
Gotta agree with the angry youtuber. Micro transactions are a cancer that is spreading and killing off otherwise good games. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
17733
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Posted - 2013.12.14 17:23:00 -
[21] - Quote
Sulliva Slake wrote:WASPY69 wrote:Please give us all an example where you can spend real life money to gain an unfair advantage in EVE that you CAN'T achieve through spending isk on that very same item(s). I have a monocle, your argument is invalid. OK that is a pretty easy question to answer buy plex + buy a char with said plex = P2W GǪexcept that that's not an unfair advantage to begin with, nor is it something that you can't achieve through spending ISK in the same way.
After all, you're not allowed to use PLEX to buy a character GÇö you have to use ISK. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
I Love Boobies
All Hail Boobies
809
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Posted - 2013.12.14 17:51:00 -
[22] - Quote
Sooooooo... the opinion of some **** on YouTube really matters? Sure, I think microtransactions are rather dumb if they give a clear advantage at something, but just because they are in the game doesn't mean they're totally bad. How else are companies going to pay for game development, especially if the game is free to play? Don't like games with microtransactions? Then don't play them. |
Tappits
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
26
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Posted - 2013.12.14 18:27:00 -
[23] - Quote
I Love Boobies wrote:How else are companies going to pay for game development, especially if the game is free to play? Don't like games with microtransactions? Then don't play them.
The problem was started with free to play games but its not stayed there. Micro transactions are now in normal FULL PRICED GAMES + DLC on Day 1 of a game been released. Things like the new GT game comes with them. Like wtf what was wrong with a cheat code for more cash in the single player game, now you have to pay for the game again for that ****.
ItGÇÖs like buying Golden eye back in the day and finding out you had to pay again for all the big head mode and golden gun. |
Alduin666 Shikkoken
Unholy Knights of Cthulhu Test Alliance Please Ignore
207
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Posted - 2013.12.14 21:08:00 -
[24] - Quote
Sulliva Slake wrote:WASPY69 wrote:Please give us all an example where you can spend real life money to gain an unfair advantage in EVE that you CAN'T achieve through spending isk on that very same item(s). I have a monocle, your argument is invalid. OK that is a pretty easy question to answer buy plex + buy a char with said plex = P2W But eve is a game that I really come to escape the major P2W sources like WoT, Planetside 2 (even they arn't as bad as others) but really if somone goes and buys a 100 mil SP account in eve they will still suck becuse eve is just not the regular FPS game like otehrs where if your good at CoD your good at all of em
He said an example where you can spend real money to gain an unfair advantage in eve THAT YOU CANT ACHIEVE THROUGH SPENDING ISK on the very same item.
Characters are sold for ISK, not plex. You must sell the plex (or 99% of the time, plexes) to get the ISK in order to buy a char. That makes it entirely valid for someone to rat/mine/plex/mission/manufacture/station trade/incursion their way up to having enough ISK to buy a character. Honor is a fools prize. Glory is of no use to the dead.
Be a man! Post with your main! ~Vas'Avi Community Manager |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
14847
|
Posted - 2013.12.14 21:18:00 -
[25] - Quote
Sulliva Slake wrote: buy plex + buy a char with said plex = P2W
Nope.
- You can't pay for a character with PLEX, you have to sell the PLEX first
- A 100M SP character is going to cost the ISK equivalent of multiple PLEX
- If you have no idea what you're doing, despite having purchased a 100M SP character, you're going to have a bad, not to mention expensive day
Even if your erroneous statement was 50% true it's more like pay to lose.
Malcanis' Law - Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of new players, that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. The corollary is that when new players propose a change, they invariably lack the experience and insight to see how the change would again be exploited by older players far more efficiently than themselves. |
Qweasdy
Absolute Massive Destruction Cult of War
27
|
Posted - 2013.12.14 21:36:00 -
[26] - Quote
Xavier Higdon wrote:EvE isn't Pay to Win. World of Tanks, Planes and Automobiles is Pay to Win. The developer of that game has clearly stated that in order to compete you must use microtransactions. After reviewing what Gold is used for in that game, I decided to never play it. You need Gold to progress at a reasonable rate, to customize tanks(as you lose anything you replace unless you use Gold) and you even need Gold to start a clan before you can pay to compete.
WoT isn't nearly as bad as you seem to think it is, gold ammo is BS, but you can buy it with in game credits too. Also what should be remembered is that gold ammo isn't actually all that useful, all it does is give you better armour penetration, and in the vast majority of situations when you shoot at someone it's either going to hit something you could easily penetrate anyway or it's going to bounce off regardless. Probably about 90% of gold ammo actually fired in that game is wasted. Where gold ammo is actually useful is to be used as an equalizer when facing tanks higher tier than yourself in unfavourable matchmaking to get through the armour that's tougher than what your gun is meant to be shooting at.
I still hate it... I wish it wasn't in the game but that's not (imo) the most pay to win thing about the game, it's the converting XP from 'elite' and premium tanks to allow you to totally skip the stock grind that everyone else has to deal with that's totally BS and will directly lead to you having better results and winning more often.
Anyways back to eve, IMO eve isn't pay to win because it's an inherently imbalanced environment to the point that conventional balance gets thrown out the window. You can't say for example a navy omen is better than a tristan when in fact a tristan in the right circumstances could kill a navy omen with ease. "paying to win" doesn't actually make you win, it's as simple as that. |
Captain Tardbar
Sons of Sam
788
|
Posted - 2013.12.14 22:04:00 -
[27] - Quote
WASPY69 wrote:Please give us all an example where you can spend real life money to gain an unfair advantage in EVE that you CAN'T achieve through spending isk on that very same item(s). I have a monocle, your argument is invalid.
None, if you have the isk.
A great deal if you don't.
As most players don't have infinite supplies of isk laying around, someone who spends thousands of dollars on selling plexes can easily earn more isk than the average player.
So yeah, someone who uses real money earns an advantage over the average player.
I mean if you run an alliance and receive taxes from thousands of people sure you might have equal incomes, but you have to put in more effort running that alliance that someone who just spends $10,000 on plex.
Though, most people don't spend that much money on the game.
And if they did, I say I'm glad I'm not as dumb as them.
And none of this "They are just moving isk around"
No. Plex buyers create something of value with their real world money. 30 days of game time.
No matter how much isk you have you cannot create 30 days of game time. You can pay other people for it, but you can't create it out of thin air like they do. "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. Captain Tardbar: The official grumpy cat of General Discussion. |
Alexis Machine
24
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Posted - 2013.12.14 22:05:00 -
[28] - Quote
Crumplecorn wrote:You missed the point the video was making; If you support it when it doesn't compromise the game, then they'll start compromising the game to try to get more out of you. Sometimes the slippery slope is actually a thing.
Every single time. It becomes less about making new and awesome content and more about "let's take this, change it to pink and raise the price 5 bucks" content. |
Eko'mo
Eko Research Institute
32
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Posted - 2013.12.14 22:21:00 -
[29] - Quote
Has anybody noticed that when you claim your holiday items, specifically the T1 modules or ships, in the description it says 'item bought from Eve website'.
Is this a placeholder for something to come or just poor wording? http://ekolikecrayons.wordpress.com/about/ |
Qweasdy
Absolute Massive Destruction Cult of War
27
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Posted - 2013.12.14 22:24:00 -
[30] - Quote
Eko'mo wrote:Has anybody noticed that when you claim your holiday items, specifically the T1 modules or ships, in the description it says 'item bought from Eve website'.
Is this a placeholder for something to come or just poor wording?
Pretty sure PLEX has that so there is actually already a use for it. |
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