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If you Nerf Concord, Tank up the HULK

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Spenser for Hire School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 1	Posted - 2011.11.07 00:55:00 - [1] - Quote I have been seeing a lot of comments on the forums requesting that CCP nerf Concord. One person asks that Space be made "less Safe." As a high-sec Carebear, I don't mind a "Concord Nerf", that is, if the HULK is given a buff to its tank at the same time. The new Battlecruisers with their BS sized weapons (is that a pun?), plus a nerf to Concord, would lead to a complete inabiltiy to mine in high-sec, or anywhere. In another thread, someone suggests T3 industrial ships. (I could not find a link to that thread) I think T3 industial ships would be a good idea. a Single industrial ship with different modules to optimize it for whatever job its being used for. One such module could buff the tank of the T3 mining ship, so that it would take several battleships to destroy it before it got into warp.
Obsidian Hawk RONA Corporation RONA Directorate 230	Posted - 2011.11.07 00:58:00 - [2] - Quote Dont believe everything you read on the forums. at least 75% of the forums is bullshit of wild speculation and rumors. Things to remember. 1. most posters are trolls and rumor mills 2. WHAT is on the test server IS NOT guarenteed to be in game. IT's a test server. CCP RESERVES the right to make changes at the last minute based on player feed back or other issues. 3. just put some shield extenders or some invuln fields on the hulk and you are fine or maybe put on a shield gang link the orca for more resists and ehp. 4. rigs are there for a reason. if you put on a em shield rig and explosive armor rig most gankers will be deterred.
Xercodo Xovoni Directorate Not Usually Killing Everyone. 156	Posted - 2011.11.07 01:00:00 - [3] - Quote Another thing to remember, Orcas and freighters can be suicided too... If they want to kill you there is no stopping them aside from not being there. The Drake is a Lie
Lord Mandelor Consolidated Holdings War Ensemble. 30	Posted - 2011.11.07 01:06:00 - [4] - Quote Anything can die in high-sec, a Hulk buff isn't needed. ConHo Daily: http://conhodaily.blogspot.com Stories ranging from midgets inside your Damage Control to drones becoming self-aware.
Andski GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 576	Posted - 2011.11.07 01:07:00 - [5] - Quote "i want to afk mine safely"
Paragon Renegade The Multinational Company. 72	Posted - 2011.11.07 01:11:00 - [6] - Quote Andski wrote: "i want to afk mine safely" I find this post very ironic "Man, you aren't actually trying to do this, right? Nobody is that stupid right?" "How wrong you are"
Nova Fox Novafox Shipyards 211	Posted - 2011.11.07 01:18:00 - [7] - Quote I think tanking up the civillian ships is an okay idea, it would bring up the cost of the suicide gank just enough to force smarter target kills than the just becuase. Also it will not entirely prevent suicide gankes in general as determiend folks will find a way, just it will enable the users more of a tool to defend themselves if they want to be cautious. Nova Fox Shipyards Inventory
Caulk H0lster Kazakh Ministry of Wealth Redistribution 31	Posted - 2011.11.07 01:31:00 - [8] - Quote OR you could get some PvPers and/or PvP alts in blackbirds and other T1 cruisers and BCs to protect you while you mine. I know this is a shocking and revolutionary concept, but nonetheless I promise it will work to prevent you getting suicide ganked if you have even just a handful of people, preferably in blackbirds or falcons.
Paragon Renegade The Multinational Company. 73	Posted - 2011.11.07 01:39:00 - [9] - Quote Caulk H0lster wrote: OR you could get some PvPers and/or PvP alts in blackbirds and other T1 cruisers and BCs to protect you while you mine. I know this is a shocking and revolutionary concept, but nonetheless I promise it will work to prevent you getting suicide ganked if you have even just a handful of people, preferably in blackbirds or falcons. Most of the time, you are dead before the defense can lock the gankers. "Man, you aren't actually trying to do this, right? Nobody is that stupid right?" "How wrong you are"
Caulk H0lster Kazakh Ministry of Wealth Redistribution 31	Posted - 2011.11.07 01:42:00 - [10] - Quote Paragon Renegade wrote: Caulk H0lster wrote: OR you could get some PvPers and/or PvP alts in blackbirds and other T1 cruisers and BCs to protect you while you mine. I know this is a shocking and revolutionary concept, but nonetheless I promise it will work to prevent you getting suicide ganked if you have even just a handful of people, preferably in blackbirds or falcons. Most of the time, you are dead before the defense can lock the gankers. Sounds like you need a better tank m8. The only way you're gonna get alpha'd by a BC is if your tank is crap. Also, if you have a neutral BC show up within 15k of your miners, your defense fleet should have it pre-locked incase it tries anything, and I guarantee that if you put 2-3 blackbirds on a single target, it WILL be jammed. The problem isn't the ship. The problem isn't the ganker. The problem isn't game mechanics. The problem isn't game balance. The problem IS you.
Zi'Boo Zi'Corp 11	Posted - 2011.11.07 01:49:00 - [11] - Quote Caulk H0lster wrote: OR you could get some PvPers and/or PvP alts in blackbirds and other T1 cruisers and BCs to protect you while you mine. I know this is a shocking and revolutionary concept, but nonetheless I promise it will work to prevent you getting suicide ganked if you have even just a handful of people, preferably in blackbirds or falcons. I know this may be news to you, but in high sec you can't preemptively jam anyone, as you'll get concorded yourself. And a lot of ganks rely on alpha strike, as there's no time for a second volley. Plus adding more people to a mining group decreases the income even further from already the least profitable activity. I don't mine and don't intend to mine anytime soon, but a lot of the mining barges are paper thin and could use a bit more EHP or at least an ability to fit any tank. On the other hand since apparently there's no more insurance for suicide ganks on Sisi, it may be that ganking hulks in destroyers for lulz may not be as profitable as it used to be.
Scrapyard Bob EVE University Ivy League 283	Posted - 2011.11.07 02:33:00 - [12] - Quote Mining barge/exhumer ganking was never about profit - so the insurance change won't fix that at all. When your ship dies from an alpha-strike because it doesn't have neither the slots, the PG, or the CPU in order to actually fit a viable tank - there's not much you can do except bend over and take it. Retriever - 2891 EHP untanked, 5886 max-tank - Cruiser sized ship that doesn't have the ability to fit medium or large shield extenders - Only has a single mid-slot Covetor - 5675 EHP untanked, 11350 EHP max-tank - Only has 43.75 PG, not enough to fit medium/large shield extenders - Only has a single mid-slot Hulk - 9027 EHP base, 22192 EHP max-tank - Only has 43.75 PG, has to use small shield extenders - Often has fitting issues due to lack of CPU and PG Mack - 6290 EHP base, 13461 EHP max-tank - Only has 43.75 PG, has to use small shield extenders - Can't fit more then a single shield-extender due to PG and CPU limits You can fit a better tank on an Osprey mining cruiser then you can on the T1 barges (and nearly as good as the Hulk's tank).
Ladie Harlot GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 678	Posted - 2011.11.07 02:35:00 - [13] - Quote Paragon Renegade wrote: Andski wrote: "i want to afk mine safely" I find this post very ironic Why? That's exactly what the OP is asking for. The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.
Dalloway Jones Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 70	Posted - 2011.11.07 02:36:00 - [14] - Quote There will never be a Concord nerf. If there was every no life neck beard would come pouring out of low and null and new players and care bears would get insta gibbed every time they try to mission or mine. There would be a mass exodus and CCP would have to fire another 20% of their staff. What CCP really needs to do is make low and null more interesting so the people that live there have something more fun to do than worry about harassing high sec residents.
Thomas Orca Intaki Armaments Important Internet Spaceship League 12	Posted - 2011.11.07 02:38:00 - [15] - Quote Scrapyard Bob wrote: Mining barge/exhumer ganking was never about profit - so the insurance change won't fix that at all. When your ship dies from an alpha-strike because it doesn't have neither the slots, the PG, or the CPU in order to actually fit a viable tank - there's not much you can do except bend over and take it. Retriever - 2891 EHP untanked, 5886 max-tank - Cruiser sized ship that doesn't have the ability to fit medium or large shield extenders - Only has a single mid-slot Covetor - 5675 EHP untanked, 11350 EHP max-tank - Only has 43.75 PG, not enough to fit medium/large shield extenders - Only has a single mid-slot Hulk - 9027 EHP base, 22192 EHP max-tank - Only has 43.75 PG, has to use small shield extenders - Often has fitting issues due to lack of CPU and PG Mack - 6290 EHP base, 13461 EHP max-tank - Only has 43.75 PG, has to use small shield extenders - Can't fit more then a single shield-extender due to PG and CPU limits You can fit a better tank on an Osprey mining cruiser then you can on the T1 barges (and nearly as good as the Hulk's tank). There are these things called Medium Shield Extenders and they use less than 30 grid.
Paragon Renegade The Multinational Company. 75	Posted - 2011.11.07 03:28:00 - [16] - Quote Caulk H0lster wrote: Paragon Renegade wrote: Caulk H0lster wrote: OR you could get some PvPers and/or PvP alts in blackbirds and other T1 cruisers and BCs to protect you while you mine. I know this is a shocking and revolutionary concept, but nonetheless I promise it will work to prevent you getting suicide ganked if you have even just a handful of people, preferably in blackbirds or falcons. Most of the time, you are dead before the defense can lock the gankers. Sounds like you need a better tank m8. The only way you're gonna get alpha'd by a BC is if your tank is crap. Also, if you have a neutral BC show up within 15k of your miners, your defense fleet should have it pre-locked incase it tries anything, and I guarantee that if you put 2-3 blackbirds on a single target, it WILL be jammed. The problem isn't the ship. The problem isn't the ganker. The problem isn't game mechanics. The problem isn't game balance. The problem IS you. I have been ganked a handful of times, usually right as I leave a station in Hek. But I've never been caught in a belt, because I stay aligned at 70% speed, and I'm not a complete *****. And to be quite honest, I don't feel like pulling away my allies from actual activities with meaning so they can defend me from something that probably won't even happen. I mine to finance PvP & supply corpmates with cheap (Free) Nocxium; I'm not going to divert all my resources to combat people with massive e-peens, and let my obligations suffer as a result. In a nutshell; Idgaf about gankers, and anyone with any intelligence should be able to dodge them.That being said, l337 PvP'ers shouldn't be able to commit their unsportsmanlikeacts to newer players, or players that just want to chill, without serious risk/reward. K? K "Man, you aren't actually trying to do this, right? Nobody is that* stupid right?" "How wrong you are"
Scrapyard Bob EVE University Ivy League 285	Posted - 2011.11.07 03:59:00 - [17] - Quote Thomas Orca wrote: There are these things called Medium Shield Extenders and they use less than 30 grid. You have 43.75 PG to play with. The (3) T2 Strip Miners use up 36MW (30MW for the T1 strips), which leaves you with 7.75 PG. The MAPC would add 10MW, which might barely be enough to fit a medium Azeo if you stick with T1 strips. Which only gets you to 24.2k EHP on the Hulk, with a yield of 1116 m3/minute instead of 1385 m3/min and 22.2k EHP for the other fit. Not much difference in survival. (The barges/exhumers really need a boost in PG/CPU. Enough to put them into the realm of "if you don't fit a tank, you truly deserve to die" instead of "even if you fit a tank, you'll still die to a solo or duo pair".)
Jenshae Chiroptera 119	Posted - 2011.11.07 04:06:00 - [18] - Quote Quote: ~~If you Nerf Concord~~, Tank up the ~~HULK~~ barges and industrials Keep it so that sacrifices have to be made to make a tank but it would benefit all space for it to be possible to fend off a ganker long enough for Concord to arrive, for help in null sec, low sec or worm hole space to arrive from your corp / alliance. CSM do you think? No matter the changes, high sec people chose the safests. Lots of stick and they will leave. Half the problem is the players in null sec; we do not want to be there with you.
Jaroslav Unwanted Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 42	Posted - 2011.11.07 04:15:00 - [19] - Quote Lord Mandelor wrote: Anything can die in high-sec, a Hulk buff isn't needed. well let see.. freighter .. you need about 20 battleships .. freighter cost roughly half bil .. 20 battleships cost roughly one bil Mission "expensive" ships .. well if they are ganked its their fault, if you fly something like this you dont really need isk that much and could take some people with you .. which somewhat can fight however in the end you still need several battleships to take it down. hulk cost 150 mil roughly / soon to be kiled by dessie 2mil .. doesnt matter if you got 1000s of guardians and bassilisks with you .. you are going down anyway... Something seems very odd... i take it "tanked hulk" should be suicided by two battleships at least.. than its fine.. it figures.. Anyway get CONCORD in line with law and order focrec of real world... You suicided before you go in system .. you get in ship which can suicide something and is fitted accordingly.. they will get info since station will sent your fit to them, or you get scanned on gate, or followed by CONCORD covops to do the scanning, and response time to your aggression is actuall warp time from CONCORD current possition to your location. Still enough to kill an hulk with gank tornado... but probably not enough to kill it with dessie.
Jaroslav Unwanted Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 42	Posted - 2011.11.07 04:18:00 - [20] - Quote Ladie Harlot wrote: Paragon Renegade wrote: Andski wrote: "i want to afk mine safely" I find this post very ironic Why? That's exactly what the OP is asking for. uhuh ... and you are asking to kill exhumers just by looking at them... Cant see difference between you and OP to be honest.
Tenchi Sal Dust Bunnies 514 25	Posted - 2011.11.07 04:20:00 - [21] - Quote i agree with giving the hulk a better tank with the new ships/changes comming in. with the new ships/changes comming, all the greifers are wetting their pants. they arent wetting their pants over the omg lets go pop some capitals. they cant wait to have an even easier time to take down barges. take it from someone who ACTUALLY TANKS their hulk instead of going for max yield. its hard enough to survive a standard battlecruiser, buts its doable. now ccp wants to give battleship dps to gank mobiles and not bring "their prey" in line. why the hell would i bother any more fitting a tank on my hulk when there aint crap it can do against battleship dps? might as well join the rest and fit for max yield just so i can i have more income to replace the barges. i think ccp is dropping the ball on this one and not realizing that when people get fed up, they can just say "ahhh **** it, 'X' game just came out, im gonna go play that." gonna be interesting to see the flood of threads that come with the massive gank increase.
Krios Ahzek Juvenis Iratus 17	Posted - 2011.11.07 04:33:00 - [22] - Quote Honestly when I first started to lurk EVE-related websites maybe three months ago, I expected mining barges to be slow, lumbering colossi with enormous hit points, kind of like an orca with mining lasers. That's how it is generally in Sci-fi, and there are many stories of repurposed industrial and mining ships that serve as the basis for fearsome custom battleships. Ex: the Narada in the last Star Trek movie, the mining ships in Dead Space. If I was able to design a mining barge, that's how I'd do it. The fitting stats of the current mining barges and exhumers make no sense, they should have at least cruiser stats. There should be a form of Kzinti lesson in EVE. That is, high powered space industrial equipment can serve as effective but unoptimized high powered space warfare equipment in a pinch. It's be cool if hulks had BS tanks and if mining lasers could zap ships. Perhaps as a slow,continuous beam laser that does kinetic damage (or whatever type of damage makes it more effective against armor/structure). More battle barges and rorquals, please.
sYnc Vir Wolfsbrigade 21	Posted - 2011.11.07 08:36:00 - [23] - Quote All the hulk needs is another buff in PG and CPU for the pilot to choose between either a LSE, Mining upgrade and DCII or, Two Mining upgrades. It will still get ganked, just by ships that actually cost the same as it, not 2 million isk in the form or Arty Thrashers. And a fit hulk cost 220m, getting ganked by 1% looks bad, if it were 2 BS that did it, then at lease you could finally put an end to whine threads from miners.
Alxea DARKNESS RISING. IMPERIAL LEGI0N 44	Posted - 2011.11.07 11:36:00 - [24] - Quote Jaroslav Unwanted wrote: Lord Mandelor wrote: Anything can die in high-sec, a Hulk buff isn't needed. well let see.. freighter .. you need about 20 battleships .. freighter cost roughly half bil .. 20 battleships cost roughly one bil Mission "expensive" ships .. well if they are ganked its their fault, if you fly something like this you dont really need isk that much and could take some people with you .. which somewhat can fight however in the end you still need several battleships to take it down. hulk cost 150 mil roughly / soon to be kiled by dessie 2mil .. doesnt matter if you got 1000s of guardians and bassilisks with you .. you are going down anyway... Something seems very odd... i take it "tanked hulk" should be suicided by two battleships at least.. than its fine.. it figures.. Anyway get CONCORD in line with law and order focrec of real world... You suicided before you go in system .. you get in ship which can suicide something and is fitted accordingly.. they will get info since station will sent your fit to them, or you get scanned on gate, or followed by CONCORD covops to do the scanning, and response time to your aggression is actuall warp time from CONCORD current possition to your location. Still enough to kill an hulk with gank tornado... but probably not enough to kill it with dessie. In the real world sorry to break this to you but the average time for real life cops response time is 20 minutes. And just like in real life... the cops get there too late. Concord response time should be based on real life cops tba. It might be better then rl cops response time but still too fast to be realistic. Nobody knows the INSTANT a crime has been done unless they have a bandana and a crystal ball.
Arthur Frayn Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State 23	Posted - 2011.11.07 11:39:00 - [25] - Quote Use an insured covetor. Keep a dozen spares around. Problem solved. Hulk is a waste of money when ganks are factored in.
Jaroslav Unwanted Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 43	Posted - 2011.11.07 11:40:00 - [26] - Quote Alxea wrote: In the real world sorry to break this to you but the average time for real life cops response time is 20 minutes. And just like in real life... the cops get there too late. Concord response time should be based on real life cops tba. It might be better then rl cops response time but still too fast to be realistic. Nobody knows the INSTANT a crime has been done unless they have a bandana and a crystal ball. uh-huh.. So you assault someone .. that one survives and knows perfectly your name... Since you use stations and star gates the authorities knows perfectly where you at any given time... Go figure how far you would go in real life, if that would be true. Probably one jump before you get killed by police. And lets say you are known criminal .. the authorities knows perfectly where you at and what you fly... since you are famous criminal you will get shot pre-emptively .. ... or at least followed everywhere at any given time..
Sirinda Offworld Miners and Fabricators Guild 6	Posted - 2011.11.07 12:27:00 - [27] - Quote Eh, have Concord pod gankers as well. It's not like they can be killed, so capital punishment is indeed an option to make them think about their ways. /thread
seany1212 Mind Games. 0ccupational Hazzard 22	Posted - 2011.11.07 12:50:00 - [28] - Quote Hulks dont need a buff to there tank, its just everyone who flys them is too stupid to fit a Damage Control II, they'd rather use there precious low slots for mining upgrades or expanded cargoholds. Fools and there isk are easily parted and need to stop QQing on the forums about it
Ladie Harlot GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 682	Posted - 2011.11.07 12:52:00 - [29] - Quote seany1212 wrote: Hulks dont need a buff to there tank, its just everyone who flys them is too stupid to fit a Damage Control II, they'd rather use there precious low slots for mining upgrades or expanded cargoholds. Fools and there isk are easily parted and need to stop QQing on the forums about it Fitting a DC II makes hulks invulnerable? The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.
seany1212 Mind Games. 0ccupational Hazzard 22	Posted - 2011.11.07 13:00:00 - [30] - Quote Ladie Harlot wrote: seany1212 wrote: Hulks dont need a buff to there tank, its just everyone who flys them is too stupid to fit a Damage Control II, they'd rather use there precious low slots for mining upgrades or expanded cargoholds. Fools and there isk are easily parted and need to stop QQing on the forums about it Fitting a DC II makes hulks invulnerable? Of course not, but considering it nearly doubles the effective HP on a hulk you'd have thought people would be more wise to it. That plus some hardeners and you get a pretty sizeable tank that could potentially stop an alpha from a bs. Also, nearly a hundred pages proving my point: Hulkageddon 3

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