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Si1viu
Aliastra Gallente Federation
4
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Posted - 2014.01.13 23:13:00 -
[121] - Quote
Antillie Sa'Kan wrote:Show me where the bad ganker touched you. And what he did with all those shiny mods you were dumb enough to fit. You not lost your way to "Crime and Punishment" forum? We really don't need your troll posts here. Post something constructive and ideas who need more than two neurons to be produced or move on. |
Sigras
Conglomo
648
|
Posted - 2014.01.14 06:58:00 -
[122] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:Derath Ellecon wrote:Kagura Nikon wrote: I don think th eproblem is beign killable.
I think the only issue is how easy is now for you to recover your sec status. At least in past you had to work a bit....
You know consequences ;) (you know very well that the cost of 10 catalysis is not a consequence :P )
You think? You and the other big poster on this thread have failed to even show in any way that the Tags for sec introduction had ANY effect on suicide ganking in EVE. Nobody has even come close to showing that there has been a noticable increase in suicide ganking since the program's introduction. If there was not.. there would be no reason for YOU to get so upset about someone suggesting that it coudl be changed. So.. hit a nerve.. or should I say.. revealed the truth? There is no need to have an increase in suicide ganking. Fact is(and is a FACT) you do not need to spend time in low sec to recover your sec status. You can.. but you do not need. Before.. you needed.. no option. Yes it was undeniable BUFF to suicide ganking. The lack of statistical evidence is not proof of anything or of the lack of something. I do not think suicide ganking is bad. But the price is very very low nowadays. Much cheaper for example than using war dec mechanics. The burden of proof is on YOU because YOU are the one suggesting the change. If YOU cannot prove there is a problem caused by this issue then why should we even listen to you?
So far you have failed to even prove that suicide ganking was even effected by this change (my guess is that it wasnt). Once you prove that then you also need to prove that the way things are is broken. After that you need to suggest a change and show how that change will fix the broken state of the game.
Also, honestly, sec status means nothing. If I want to organize a suicide gank, all I have to do is undock 2-3 orcas full of catalysts with the correct fit, then I just sit in a safe spot and have everyone warp to me. When the time is right, I jettison all the catalysts and everyone boards, warps off and its gank o'clock, they never meet concord, they never have a problem. |
Danika Princip
Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team
2262
|
Posted - 2014.01.14 08:24:00 -
[123] - Quote
Si1viu wrote:Antillie Sa'Kan wrote:Show me where the bad ganker touched you. And what he did with all those shiny mods you were dumb enough to fit. You not lost your way to "Crime and Punishment" forum? We really don't need your troll posts here. Post something constructive and ideas who need more than two neurons to be produced or move on.
But this entire thread is just some guy crying about the loss of something shiny, it wasn't constructive to start with. |
Panseluta
PerRiko Industries
2
|
Posted - 2014.01.14 09:21:00 -
[124] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:But this entire thread is just some guy crying about the loss of something shiny, it wasn't constructive to start with.
Who guy cry about what? The thread is about the fact that a gang of 15 destroyers is able to kill over 20 missioning battleshisp and marauders everyday. Not some guy, but TWENTY players are losing ships to just one suicide gangs every day.
21 ships killed just on 12/01/14 :
http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=player&name=JIis#13896908966371&if_height=170
And to stop all trolls comments about how they deserve to die because dare to fly anything than cheap battleships, you have proof that gankers may want to kill you even if fly a cheap battleship with very cheap modules:
http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=21510881 |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1066
|
Posted - 2014.01.14 10:09:00 -
[125] - Quote
Derath Ellecon wrote:Kagura Nikon wrote:If there was not.. there would be no reason for YOU to get so upset about someone suggesting that it coudl be changed. Not upset. Just pointing out that you are constantly claiming something without any data to back up that claim. Kagura Nikon wrote:So.. hit a nerve.. or should I say.. revealed the truth? Wat? No nerves hit here. Only truth revealed is that maybe you trying to scream the loudest isn't enough to defend your arguments. Kagura Nikon wrote:There is no need to have an increase in suicide ganking. Fact is(and is a FACT) you do not need to spend time in low sec to recover your sec status. You can.. but you do not need. Before.. you needed.. no option. If thre has been no increase in suicide ganking, then it would seem that the introduction of Tags for sec had little effect on suicide ganking. If so, where exactly is the problem? Kagura Nikon wrote:Yes it was undeniable BUFF to suicide ganking. The lack of statistical evidence is not proof of anything or of the lack of something. It is pretty hard to say anything is "undeniable" in the same statement as "lack of evidence"
Logic does not need evidence. Just usign the brain. Before the change you coudl nto buy back your sec status. Now you CAN.
Before-> cannot Now -> can
Can > Cannot. Simple.. No evedence needed.
No increase in suicide ganking? Go to osmon and apanake. At arouund eve time and you see like 5-6 ganks per hour on each one. Ok probably a localized spur.. but anyoen that pass time on those zones (as I do, hunting for our wartargets) can see it.
I even lost count of nubme rof times that i was trackign a WT marauder carefully to as soo nas he undocked and warped to gate be ganked there. Why? because is inifitely easier and of less effort to gank than to use war decs nowadays.
ITs unfair competition and I demand the Comerce anc Competition Protectorade to interfere so that legitimate griefers can comepte in equal ground. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1066
|
Posted - 2014.01.14 10:11:00 -
[126] - Quote
Panseluta wrote:Danika Princip wrote:But this entire thread is just some guy crying about the loss of something shiny, it wasn't constructive to start with. Who guy cry about what? The thread is about the fact that a gang of 15 destroyers is able to kill over 20 missioning battleshisp and marauders everyday. Not some guy, but TWENTY players are losing ships to just one suicide gangs every day. 21 ships killed just on 12/01/14 : http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=player&name=JIis#13896908966371&if_height=170And to stop all trolls comments about how they deserve to die because dare to fly anything than cheap battleships, you have the proof that gankers may want to kill you even if fly a cheap battleship with very cheap modules: http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=21510881Edit: also please stop rattle about overheating modules, over-tanking ships, etc, because if 15-16 destroyers shoot your ship, with any tank, you will melt before can overheat anything. Edit 2: And i not lost any ship to that gang, because i don't do missions or mining, i just noticed in local that guys who become GCC every 15-20 minutes, and that made me curious to look after them on killboards... what i found shocked me... and also made me jealous a bit, i must admit So if CCP will let this going on i look forward to a change on my career in eve
TO be fair.. you CAN do a vargur or golem that tanks 16 destroyers. But with the cost t you will jsut attrack 30 of them :P "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Si1viu
Aliastra Gallente Federation
6
|
Posted - 2014.01.14 21:24:00 -
[127] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:TO be fair.. you CAN do a vargur or golem that tanks 16 destroyers. But with the cost t you will jsut attrack 30 of them :P
Is true, the race of tanking an expensive ship against very cheap destroyers is lost from the start...
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Danika Princip
Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team
2271
|
Posted - 2014.01.14 21:33:00 -
[128] - Quote
Panseluta wrote:Danika Princip wrote:But this entire thread is just some guy crying about the loss of something shiny, it wasn't constructive to start with. Who guy cry about what? The thread is about the fact that a gang of 15 destroyers is able to kill over 20 missioning battleshisp and marauders everyday. Not some guy, but TWENTY players are losing ships to just one suicide gangs every day. 21 ships killed just on 12/01/14 : http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=player&name=JIis#13896908966371&if_height=170And to stop all trolls comments about how they deserve to die because dare to fly anything than cheap battleships, you have the proof that gankers may want to kill you even if fly a cheap battleship with very cheap modules: http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=21510881Edit: also please stop rattle about overheating modules, over-tanking ships, etc, because if 15-16 destroyers shoot your ship, with any tank, you will melt before can overheat anything. Edit 2: And i not lost any ship to that gang, because i don't do missions or mining, i just noticed in local that guys who become GCC every 15-20 minutes, and that made me curious to look after them on killboards... what i found shocked me... and also made me jealous a bit, i must admit So if CCP will let this going on i look forward to a change on my career in eve
Twelve to fifteen plus organized players able to kill twenty, one at a time. Shock, Horror! Where in EVE can you go 12 to one and expect to live?
And that battleship is an awful fit being put out of it's misery.
Now, explain to the class why suicide ganking is bad, without using cost as your entire argument.
And explain how tags are linked in any way to suicide ganking, since what, half a dozen gankers in this thread have told you outright that -10 is a badge of honour, and a load of other people have pointed out that sec status is not hard to increase. |
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
1970
|
Posted - 2014.01.14 22:13:00 -
[129] - Quote
Panseluta wrote:
Who guy cry about what? The thread is about the fact that a gang of 15 destroyers is able to kill over 20 missioning battleshisp and marauders everyday.
To be accurate it would be more like 300 catalysts but who's counting really. |
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
1970
|
Posted - 2014.01.14 22:19:00 -
[130] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Logic does not need evidence.
Correct. And if your goal is just to have some fun logic games you are doing well. But if you want to actually sway others to your arguments and try and enact change, you will need more than just your logic and idle observations. |
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Johnson Dragoon
Journey.
1
|
Posted - 2014.01.14 22:31:00 -
[131] - Quote
I think a major thing is many players are still in the cost = balance mindset.
In a game where the the cost is set by the general population, how does one balance player interaction? Cost doesn't equal balance I'm afraid. And people should have that mindset beaten out of their heads.
Here how I view it, someone had a superior plan, timing, and hunting skills. They beat you. They won, instead of whining about it, why don't you learn from it make up a way to counter how you were just ganked. |
Si1viu
Aliastra Gallente Federation
8
|
Posted - 2014.01.14 22:33:00 -
[132] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:Now, explain to the class why suicide ganking is bad, without using cost as your entire argument. And explain how tags are linked in any way to suicide ganking, since what, half a dozen gankers in this thread have told you outright that -10 is a badge of honour, and a load of other people have pointed out that sec status is not hard to increase.
Now i will try to explain what you ask, but please start using your brain for few minutes, is a requirement. So...
1. First, i give a simple analogy to understand how good/netral things can become very bad: Alcohol is not bad by itself, ok? We almost all drink from time to time, is pleasant, but... if you drink to much it become very unhealthy, even toxic. You destroy your liver, stomach, brain and so on. You start to catch? No? OK, we continue with explication.
Suicide ganking is a valid tactic and a part of gameplay. OK? We agree till this point. But... if a single gang become able to destroy dozens of mission ships every day (they managed to destroy twenty one faction batlleships and marauders in 24 hours, on 12/01/14 for example) we will run very soon out of victims, in this case guys who do missions. You may believe that resource is infinite? Then you are not the first one who think that some resources are infinite... don't worry. But think now that we have 5-6 gangs like that one, or maybe more, is still no problem? Or you will say that is not possible because people don't know how to suicide gang? Maybe not... but most likely they can learn.
2. Second, despite the fact that is obvious you not even took a look on that killboard, do a small effort and check what security status have the members of that gang... they have -10 security status? No, they are not -10, even after killed hundred of ships in high sec many days and hours in the row, moreover, all of them are above -2 so they can move free even in 1.0 systems. You think is a coincidence, some magic and secret spells? No, they use security tags because that let them to use their characters in high sec without any impediment. I was clear enough?
If you need any other explications please tell me, i am here to help
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Danika Princip
Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team
2272
|
Posted - 2014.01.15 00:32:00 -
[133] - Quote
But nobody has suddenly become able to do this. They've been able to do it since day one. Ten years ago. Why is it a problem now? It's been ten years and nobody has run out of victims yet.
Even tags for sec has been in for a long time now, not that anybody has any proof whatsoever that these guys are using that mechanic as opposed to any of the multitude of other ways nullsec residents can increase their sec status. Even if they are using it, the answer is simple.
Stop paying them. You bears are feeding them your officer modules, which is feeding their wallets, which can be used to buy up the tags. Or, go buy up all the tags and sell them on at a 500% markup. |
Si1viu
Aliastra Gallente Federation
8
|
Posted - 2014.01.15 10:49:00 -
[134] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:But nobody has suddenly become able to do this. They've been able to do it since day one. Ten years ago. Why is it a problem now? It's been ten years and nobody has run out of victims yet.
Even tags for sec has been in for a long time now, not that anybody has any proof whatsoever that these guys are using that mechanic as opposed to any of the multitude of other ways nullsec residents can increase their sec status. Even if they are using it, the answer is simple.
Stop paying them. You bears are feeding them your officer modules, which is feeding their wallets, which can be used to buy up the tags. Or, go buy up all the tags and sell them on at a 500% markup.
Read again what i wrote before and connect the dots if you can. About security tags you have half right, increasing the price is best solution, but only CCP can do that by reducing the supply, not players. |
Sarah Stallman
International Unification
110
|
Posted - 2014.01.15 11:05:00 -
[135] - Quote
Umm... No. There is a long history of price-fixing in EVE. I'm told it's not actually that hard to do if you've got enough capital.
It's the loot fairy and the tears that fuels this, not the cost of tags. |
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
710
|
Posted - 2014.01.15 11:56:00 -
[136] - Quote
lol @ thread.
How about leaving high sec to some more transparent environments like 0.0, where you mostly know who people are, who is likely going to gank you and who very likely isnt? |
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
1972
|
Posted - 2014.01.15 13:23:00 -
[137] - Quote
Robert Caldera wrote:lol @ thread.
How about leaving high sec to some more transparent environments like 0.0, where you mostly know who people are, who is likely going to gank you and who very likely isnt?
It's not even that hard. If you look at all of the KB the OP has posted, pretty much this ganking oubtreak is focused on Sisters of EVE mission hubs. Just go run missions for someone else. |
FT Diomedes
The Graduates RAZOR Alliance
281
|
Posted - 2014.01.15 20:20:00 -
[138] - Quote
Derath Ellecon wrote:Robert Caldera wrote:lol @ thread.
How about leaving high sec to some more transparent environments like 0.0, where you mostly know who people are, who is likely going to gank you and who very likely isnt? It's not even that hard. If you look at all of the KB the OP has posted, pretty much this ganking oubtreak is focused on Sisters of EVE mission hubs. Just go run missions for someone else.
The marginally lower sec status of that system means you get a slightly higher LP payout. It also means Concord arrives slower. Increased reward = increased risk. |
Mythrandier
Spacelane Salvage
311
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 11:06:00 -
[139] - Quote
This thread has made my day, thanks OP!
One of the main reasons some people suicide gank is things like this very thread. Listening to the whinging, entitled, self centred and totally moronic mewling of these players is more motivation to gank than profit or killmails.
I donGÇÖt mission within 10 jumps of anywhere busy, the system I run level 4GÇÖs in (when I can be bothered) usually has 10-15 people in it, I watch local and I keep dscan open and running. Which is why IGÇÖve never been ganked, yet. However, I accept that every time I click that undock button my ship is forfeit, if it comes back in one piece, then thatGÇÖs a bonus!
I have never tried suicide ganking but this thread has really made me want to try itGǪ
"In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." --á D. Adams. |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Hello-There
120
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 11:22:00 -
[140] - Quote
I wouldn't suicide gank as it is simply a game of mathematics:
TS{tsq}*sec + yDs*dsq = expTS
Where TS = Target ship tsq = target ship quality sec = security factor yDs = number of destroyers dsq = destroyer quality
expTs = explosive mushroom cloud of tears
This holds no appeal to me particularly, but I fully accept that every time I undock I am at risk...that's why we have medical clones, insurance, and always fly ships we can afford to lose (everybody does that right?).
Disclaimer: No actual target ships were harmed in the creation of this post |
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Silvetica Dian
Manson Family Advent of Fate
594
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 11:29:00 -
[141] - Quote
Mojo Joo wrote:Silvetica Dian wrote:[
Funny i ran SoE missions before the patch in a BS. i saw many many nado and catalyst gangs and felt very very safe. The people that ran those missions in blinged out faction ships with all those gankers around deserved to lose their stuff. You really can't expect CCP to fix stupid.
1. Is my ship profitable to gank? 2. Do gankers often frequent this area?
If you answered yes to both those and still went ahead anyway whose fault is it? not the gankers and not CCP would be my answer So you felt very safe flying an ordinary raven with t2 fit, right? And people who want better ships and modules... deserve to die... just because you say so. OK. Now explain me a thing, where all deadspace modules will be sold after missioners took your advice and fly tech1 battleships with t2 fits? A lot of null sec carebears will cry after good money who they get in present from high sec missioners. You want to destroy all the demand for expensive stuff, just because is no place safe enough to use that and everyone who use expensive modules deserve to die? Because you say so? You hate rich people or what? For this ones what advice you have: https://zkillboard.com/corporation/98185728/kills/ To not fly anymore mining barges and use only ventures? Your vision is so narrow that provoke me an acute sensation of claustrophobia...
No i felt safe flying a T2 fit raven in one of the biggest gank hotspots currently in the game. If i wanted to use a blinged out ship this would be the last place i would use it. i have a deadspace fitted Tengu that i run sites in enemy owned nullsec. I am not poor. I use the modules you are talking about. I just wouldn't dream of using them in an area infested with people searching for ships with those modules. People who don't even make an attempt at there own safety have no one to blame but themselves when they lose their stuff foolishly. Likewise there are plenty of areas of high sec with few to no gankers and those would be the places to fly a blinged out mission runner. here is a list of all the fiat currencies that didn't end up at zero value.....and here is a list of the places where a currency pegged to a real commodity has successfully co-existed with compound interest....-á Here is a physics professor explaining why sustainable growth isn't a thing http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-QA2rkpBSY |
Mythrandier
Spacelane Salvage
311
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 11:39:00 -
[142] - Quote
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote: always fly ships we can afford to lose (everybody does that right?).
If everybody did, we would not see threads like this :) "In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." --á D. Adams. |
Vinyl 41
Perkone Academy
26
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 11:59:00 -
[143] - Quote
i dont rly get why is there such a huge fuzz about those groups - sister l4 hubs allways were the worst place to run missions since they offer you a huge wariety of valuable gank targets like all those multi bilion kills - maybe instead of crying on the forums about "evil gankers OP NERF NERF NEEEEERRRRRRRRRRFFFFFFFFFF" try to change smt with your way of doing missions - small tip read this topic again and hook to some rly good sugetions that were made here |
Mournful Conciousness
Embers Children TOHA Conglomerate
457
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 13:10:00 -
[144] - Quote
The OP would be well advised to spend some time in wornhole space. It's a good training ground for the much more dangerous hisec space.
Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
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Owen Levanth
Federated Deep Space Explorations
70
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 13:42:00 -
[145] - Quote
What's up with all the typos and the bad grammar? I'll tell you right away I won't take people seriously who articulate themselves that badly. No effort while writing = No effort in trying to understand your drivel. |
Kitty Bear
Disturbed Friends Of Diazepam Disturbed Acquaintance
1184
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 14:00:00 -
[146] - Quote
Panseluta wrote:This guys effective do a genocide between people who do missions, i bet at this rate CCP will must do something to not lose a lot of subscribers. Is very obvious that is way to easy to kill very expensive ships in very cheap ones, and moreover, with new dumb pro-piracy feature of sec status instant boost, using pirate insignias, gankers can get security status back instant, and keep going on suicide gank ships at infinitum as long is very profitable too. They cannot be stopped in that cheap and fast ships, killrights dont have any use because of same reasons... http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=player&name=Megamaks+T44Look on this and notice that something looks very wrong there... So guys take care and brick tank your ships, but that will not help to much as long they use enough destroyers...
Ganking is a 'feature' of eve, and you need to accept that it has been around since launch, and accept that there are no plans to remove it.
It is possible to do due to the disparity between PVE and PVP fits The disparity is two-fold :- - How they apply damage - How they tank damage
One of the developers' many 'long term' plans in eve is to address that disparity and eliminate it. There is currently no information from the Development Team on how that plan is going.
But rest assured brave capsuleer, one day your pve fit will be equally a pvp fit. I just don't know when that day will be. |
twit brent
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 17:25:00 -
[147] - Quote
I have never been suicide ganked and probably never will.
Suicide ganking is ******** in the fact that you can't fight back at all. To fight them i would need killrights which means i need to lose a ship to them which i'm not willing to do. I can't suicide gank them because they fly cheap ships and i would lose more.
So what? everyone is saying i just can't fit past a certain value? i can't invest in my ship? yeah that's a great way to play a game. Maybe everyone should just fly dominixes and nothing else. |
Dolorous Tremmens
The Scope Gallente Federation
74
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 18:04:00 -
[148] - Quote
That's right, eve has scum that are real scum. You can only fight them by sinking to their level, and there's a lot more of them. You have to isk tank. Cheap enough to do the job, expensive enough to do in a reasonable amount of time, not enough to be worth ganking.
You'll still get ganked, eventually. But they won't be getting anything from it.
Eve is a model of the real world, much more so than any mmo out there. It should not be a surprise to find that our game promotes scum like this, so does our society.
Be a better person and don't shoot them. Or don't and do shoot them.
Why are you picking on the domi?
Get some Eve. Make it yours.
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twit brent
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 18:12:00 -
[149] - Quote
Not picking on domi, just saying you can run missions with them for not much isk invested. |
Soldarius
Deadman W0nderland Test Alliance Please Ignore
484
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 18:26:00 -
[150] - Quote
Took one look at tuffFukas Vindi loss and literally dropped my eyeballs on the floor. The fits people use for missioning are just... beyond ********.
Let this be a lesson. Just because you can give CCP money to buy your stuff does not make your ship an automatic solopwnmobile. Isk cost is not a balancing point.
Free Ripley Weaver! |
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