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Small Secure Container
Medium Secure Container
Large Secure Container
Huge Secure Container
Giant Secure Container

Guardian Sentry Gun I
Sentinel Sentry Gun I

Amarr Mobile Refinery
Minmatarr Mobile Refinery
Caldari Mobile Refinery

as well as the "Anchoring" Skill

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2) Anchoring requires corp management 3, refining 3

Is this confirmed? If so, its awfully stupid. The prereq skill for anchoring should not be corp management it should be instead leadership. Refining skill should only apply the mobile refineries.

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If so, its awfully stupid. The prereq skill for anchoring should not be corp management it should be instead leadership.

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I'd suggest Mechanics 4, Science 3 and Navigation 3 for Anchoring and Refining Efficiency 3 as well as Industry 5 for a Mob. Refinery.

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Why leadership? Anchoring has nothing to do with leadership at all!

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With all due respect, the skills should be easily accessible to all, low and high time in game.

After all, you have made secure cans the only way to drop-mine in a system, and the only option to ore theives, but you all seem to want to place such high skill requirements on them :S

Don't forget, people in the help channel advise newbies to the game to use secure cans, but they can't if they haven't the skills to anchor them, so for the first few days you are saying "Sorry, you need to use these to prevent that, but you can't use those until you trained level 4 this, level 4 that, etc".

Doesn't anyone else see that as rather unfair on them, and a potential support issue waiting to happen?

Mobile refineries, well, thats a different matter imo.

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Smarter call Aki I think.

I think it does highlight two different perceptions sadly.

One side they want anchoring to be a high requirement because of things like sentry guns, mobile refinerys etc. On the other side they forced this on people for secure container use, so you can't make it a high level requirement. That really defeats the whole purpose of high sec space ore theft prevention.

Personally, I think they have two lines here which are completely different.

Anchoring: Rank 1, Pre-reqs something like Aki said, Mechanic 1 should suffice, that is achievable in an hour for most newbies.

Structural Anchoring: Rank 3, other prereqs as this might cover things of a bigger nature. Guns, mobile kit, etc.

Please make it reasonable, 1 month for level 5 on a rank 3 skill is harsh to patiently wait for just to drop something into space. Making that a pre-req, well, perhaps for things like stations, but don't go too far. Spending 1 month waiting to be able to do something isn't exactly a fun use of that month :)

However, bare in mind peole are dying to have other stations out there, if we keep making pre-reqs too high and costs too high, you will see very few stations, and perhaps people will just build them inside empire space. Plenty of empty space, encourage their use of it by making it not too demanding. :) Only my personal opinion.

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• mechanic lvl 3

• Small, Medium, Large - Anchoring lvl 1
• Giant and Huge - Anchoring lvl 2

• Anchoring lvl 3

• Anchoring lvl 4


• Industry lvl 5


• Refining lvl 5

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The mobile refinery skill should on affect setting it up. A person should need those skills to set it up not use it. That way corps can use them. They have a guy who sets the thing up then they leave it for the miners to use.

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If turrets are to be an automated defense for megacorps, they should be either be made to be tougher, built cheaper and faster, or be permitted to be built in close proximity to gates and stations

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adjust their limitations so they can be a somewhat viable deterrent to invasion by player pirates.

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I haven't actually tested the turrets on Chaos, but I have heard from fellow members of my corp that the turrets are extremely easy to jam and destroy them.

If turrets are to be an automated defense for megacorps, they should be either be made to be tougher, built cheaper and faster, or be permitted to be built in close proximity to gates and stations, as those are the two primary applications, with mobile refineries being secondary.

I'm not saying that gates should be allowed to have 100 turrets surrounding them 30 km away from the gate (the future anti-warp bubble), but adjust their limitations so they can be a somewhat viable deterrent to invasion by player pirates. An example could be like this:

Current turret stats
When deploying near a gate or NPC station, the deployment range limit is 70km from gate/stations, instead of the current 100km limit.

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Tried out mobile caldari & amarr refinery's and both sentries last night. The refinery's work great and i was able to anchor it far from any planetary body, bookmark and then warp to it whenever i needed. Any1 who finds it seems to be able to use the refinery and its indestructable, im still not sure if this is a good thing.

My main problems are with sentry gun, for example they have sensor stregth of 1 across then different types which mean that any type of jammer will be able to jam them. Also they seem a little weak, i was able to take 1 out with a moa in vey little time and i didnt jam either.

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A corp mate and me refined 333 Scordite each. I have Refining 4, he has Refining Efficiency 4.
The refining skills are taken into account, but we only got 7.8% of what a refine in a station refinery would have yielded (I think that it's 8%, but got rounded). That said, I'm not sure if the Mobile Refinery Operations skill is taken into account (or is supposed to be taken into account) when refining using a mobile refinery. Hopefully I'll have time to test that tonight.
James Baker

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A corp mate and me refined 333 Scordite each. I have Refining 4, he has Refining Efficiency 4.
The refining skills are taken into account, but we only got 7.8% of what a refine in a station refinery would have yielded (I think that it's 8%, but got rounded). That said, I'm not sure if the Mobile Refinery Operations skill is taken into account (or is supposed to be taken into account) when refining using a mobile refinery. Hopefully I'll have time to test that tonight.
James Baker

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8%????????? Why bother putting these things in then. It's a waste of time to buy one of these things mine for hours and get only 8% of what you would get at a station. Even mining Veld in 1.0 yields more than 8% of mining bistot if could be done in 1.0 systems. It's should be at least 40% and then 10% per level of mobile refinery skill.

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Can someone please explain to me the reasoning behind having a lower % return of minerals from a mobile refinery compared to a station refinery?

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2) Anchoring requires corp management 3, refining 3

Is this confirmed? If so, its awfully stupid. The prereq skill for anchoring should not be corp management it should be instead leadership. Refining skill should only apply the mobile refineries.

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Indeed. Anchoring should not be for refining CEO people only. Rather, it should be for field operatives. I'd make it a Leadership (or perhaps Navigation based) skill as well .

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I'll try with a RL example.

Do you expect the generator you buy at a local DIY store to be as efficient as the Power company's? You pay a price for portability in this case that price is efficiency

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3. Mobile refineries are meant as tools to mine far away from station. To prevent littering secure space with em, they need to have a significant yield disadvantage (mind you, 40% perhaps, not 90% ;)

It all boils down to: Thinking in character it would just be illogical if they have the same yield; thinking out of character, game desing wise, they need to have far lower yield to balance the different approaches to mining (hauling to station vs. using a mobile refinery).
Dont forget that a newb roughly spends 50% of his time hauling, and a corp could just litter every belt in 1.0 with a mobile refinery for their newbs, and more than one corp could do that.

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• In Game - 'Shop@hdy'


• Web Site - www.hadean.org

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FingerThief, one question: How will you explain, that DI¦s will get better, if they are farer away from civilisation?
Please just forget these ideas.

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Well For now, I agree with the 8% of station refining output.
Read on then you see why.

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Given that the yeild of Mobile Refineries (MR) is NOT going to be based on distance from a station, can you please explain a realistic instance where 8% would motivate any player to use one?

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I have not seen any good reasons for them not to be as good as a station refinary.

Make them cost about 300M or so and you will find them being use properly.

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The main problem that I see with the limitation....You will see 15 mob ref's in a belt or around a planet to deal with it. This will just cause more server side lag kinda like masive amounts of containers or drones create. Good idea, but the "work around" would just cause more issues IMHO.

Z

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Mobile refineries don¦t have to cost more than 10M if they are destroyable.

Currently I haule bistot/chrockite and other ore over 20Js' and will keep on doing just that if the mobile refs % will be ANY lower than the stations'.

The bottom line is, that there is a limited amount of rare ore in a system and we(my corp) just mine it all, and haule it all, period.

The Mobile ref. has to work just as good as the ones in the station.

It has been said under this topic before and I¦ll say it again:

The only resonable limitation on mobile refineries is skills required, price, size and throughput.

The refinery should work exactly like the ones in the stations i.e. the mineral yield should be according to the operators skills.

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if you were to mine an average bistot system out and refine it at 8% efficiency you'd probably still make less than hauling to a station 15 jumps away.

Isn't the whole point of this to allow corps to build up bases that eventually turn into stations out so they can claim there own territory and basically build somewhere to fight over (and also attract more people from empire space to 0.0 to fight as the game was intended methinks) if there extremely inefficient it just undermines that (note : not saying they should be 100% efficient, but 8% is just nuts .. 40-50% + skills is better)

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Looking at it from a manpower perspective, and assuming some things which I'll go into details on in the morning... 8% is more than a bit low for 15 jumps out, in fact with the assumptions I made tonight, the efficiency level of the mobil refinery could not go lower than 17.15% and still expect to come out just barely ahead at 15 jumps out. That is being extremely generous in some of the numbers(and the abilities of the tugger in question) I threw around. The more reasonable number I came up with came out to about 21% at 15 jumps.

When I make the more detailed post in the morning(US Pacific Time), I'll have to see about making my own arbitrary stab at just how far out I think you'd have to go to break even at 8% efficiency. I just want to check the description of my method after some sleep before I post it, that and check some other facts with some corp-mates.

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Why leadership? Anchoring has nothing to do with leadership at all!

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Yes it does you silly goose! Imagine you're towing this big huge deployable thing. Someone has to make a COMMAND decision(leadership) and say when and where this huge expensive thing gets deployed. You're controlling corporation assets, as a leader.

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