Yeah sure, lets make a ship that works best with unorganized groups. Why support people that actually prepare for fights.

The logi still needs to pick a type which negates the whole advantage they'd have.

Or the FC can just say 'Armour in this fleet, Shield in that Fleet' and have two FC's that work together.
And logi split appropriately.

Or just learn to not kitchen sink. Live Events normally manage to split to Armour & Shield fleets (That I'd still consider kitchen sink due to lack of doctrines)

Over the past few years I've noticed that the reason for kitchensink fleets has been simple availability of logged in personnel, not a misunderstanding of how to organize. Yes good fleet doctrine setups are best (and should continue to be so), however I've seen a lot of "hey who's logged on? grab whatever ship and lets have fun for 45 minutes until it's time to (insert RL chore)" fleets. There's not two fleets or FCs, and there's not two logi pilots available. As a fan of running logi I'd like to have a ship option for that role.

I've known a lot of players who don't have divergent skills / already fitted ships handy but do want to PVP in the moment, they're the ones who jump into these roams.

Are pick up fleets not common elsewhere?

And yet, the existence of a dual logi ship does not subtract from the experience you describe. It adds play options without negatively effecting any that already exist. That alone makes it a good idea.

And yet, the existence of a dual logi ship does not subtract from the experience you describe. It adds play options without negatively effecting any that already exist. That alone makes it a good idea.

No, it makes it a terrible idea, because it makes an almost never used ship. Which is a waste of resources both in creating the ship and in the future balancing the ship every single balance pass.
Never used ships simply should not exist, every ship should have a clear and common use.
Small kitchen sink fleets not large enough to have dedicated split shield & armour logi aren't one of those 'common' uses.

I do not understand why people oppose anything they personally do not use. Having more options to choose from is ALWAYS good. Obviously you won't be using this, while people around the op could use it more often. Just because you think it's not effective to run such fleet does not mean someone else doesn't have fun with it.

The game is not about having perfect strategies and tactics and the best organisation. It's about having fun.

And that your fleet will take the other to breakfast? Who cares. Not everyone is in a corp/alliance where calling start of roam in 30 minutes would fill every spot with the exact fit for the fleet. Someone just want to have fun with what they can scramble. And they would have even more fun with the above proposed ship.

As for balancing this one. It's not rocket science. CCP knows how to balance a ship like this would not be a big deal. you take your average logi for the basic attributes like speed/tank and make it worse in repairing armor and shield worse then specialized ship..

Just my 2 cents.

or instead of having shield and armor bonuses on the same ship just make them rep hull instead!!

Maybe a sisters of eve logi ship? can fit something of everything if needed, has modest bonuses for everything, and is good till you see that specialization is better

This is somewhere between genius and insane.

Real men hull tank!!!

This is somewhere between genius and insane.

Real men hull tank!!!

If you're bringing both armor and shield in your kitchen sink fleet, I would assume you would get both armor and shield logi. Also, its not like shield reps don't help armor ships, or armor reps help shield ships, especially in a small gang situation. If its that much of a heartbreaker, fly a shield repping ship, or tell your shield tankers to fit damage controls so you can armor rep them while they die. If you bring a mixed fleet that means effective logi is not a priority for you. So what's the problem?

Also, there are logi ships that rep both effectively, and at the same time. Those ships are the archon and nidhoggur.

There would be no need to weaken the rep strength of a dual rep logi. It would either have the flexability to specialize one way or the other using all of its available slots and equal an already specialized existing logi (though probably lacking whatever the secondary bonus the dedicated logis have), or it would split it's ability between the two and be less effective on either one.

Much as a ship with split weapon bonuses, unless those bonuses are doubled as has been done on some minmatar hulls, the splitting itself is a weakness.

It's not a bad idea. It may not be optimal for organized and dedicated fleets, but EVE is a big game and there should be room in the sandbox for more casual playstyles to be supported and flourish if they can.

THIS

it's not about doing things right, or for maximum efficiency.

Heck, the entire concept of right / correct fittings is an OPINION, based on what is at best the perception of what is most efficient.

That has little to nothing to do with fun. Some of us want to just have fun, not compare excel sheets...

or instead of having shield and armor bonuses on the same ship just make them rep hull instead!!

The problem that I'm seeing is that a mixed shield/armor logistics would be harder to fly than a single repair type logistics, since you would have to choose what to repair someone with instead of just sending reps their way once they broadcast for it/yell on TS/start taking damage.

I think you can do what you want to do already. Have two squads. One for shield tankers and one for armor tankers. Have two logistics cruiser pilots. One in an Exequror and one in a Scythe. The Exequror should repair armor and try to tank shield and the Scythe repair shield and tank armor. The Exequror pilot should put the Scythe and the Armor squad on their watch list and the Scythe should put the shield squad and the Exequror on their watch list.

If you can fill more than two squads you need to implement some doctrine. At least enough doctrine to decide what the fleet is tanking.

After reading page 1 I was about to post the same suggestion. +1 Gawain



SOE Logi should have bonus to sheild & armor repair bots ... no?

Hull repper for the win, in my opinion.

Also, keep in mind this is a kitchen sink scenario being discussed. This hull repping logi needs to be just as easily, if not more accessible, than current logi.
SOE ships have the perception of being more difficult to get.
A rare ship being needed to salvage the fun for a quickie fleet seems a weak solution.

agree with all that, except possibly for the hull repper. I gave it some thought: hull is pretty thin and can't be resist boosted beyond a DC to my knowledge, and leaves zero room for error. As a logi I'd rather stick to standard shield or armor boostage.

...

You are suggesting that order be established, exactly where it has been pointed out such order is not an option.

Order has already been established by the very act of bringing a logistics ship to start with.
For your logistics ship to be useful you need three things, repairable ships, pilots who will broadcast for reps, and another logistics ship.

If people bring untanked cruisers kitted for speed and ECM, no amount of logistics will save them if they are primaried and tackled. Their fit might be good, but you have to tell people to bring repairable ships if you want your fleet to succeed.

If people don't broadcast for reps and the logistics pilots don't see them taking damage than those people will go down. People need to be taught to broadcast for reps. If you're going to teach people to broadcast for reps you can also teach them to fit for particular types of fleets.

If you only have one logistics ship, that ship will be primaried as soon as it wanders into range and it will go down. Then you have no logistics ships. If you are already requiring one person to fly a particular setup, you may as well require others to do so too.

You don't need to go full ****** and tell people to fit exactly X modules on Y ship that must be trained to level V and wear Z implants and carry exactly A,00 rounds of N ammo, W drone II's, and drink C beers, from D country before going out under threat of the FC podding them himself. But you do need to impose some order for logistics to be useful. No possible ship will change that.

Order has already been established by the very act of bringing a logistics ship to start with.
For your logistics ship to be useful you need three things, repairable ships, pilots who will broadcast for reps, and another logistics ship.

Order has been established by the presence of a logi? Not necessarily at all.
It simply means one of the pilots had the needed skills, and guessed that they would be more useful in bringing the logi instead of more DPS.
...
This fleet is a disorganized, fly by the seat of your pants, and shoot from the hip thrill ride. Only the very naive seriously expect to survive, the logi is there to give them a slightly longer rush of combat chaos.

It really is just for fun. Undock, and leave the rules behind, for we all die tonight.

So much bitter vet whining.

+1

Id think a Minmatar ship would fit this idea the best (considering they are shield + armor tankers). Doesn't make much sense to make it an expensive faction ship. Id say change the tech one minmatar logi.

bring shield logi
everyone benefits from reps
hooray!