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Frostys Virpio
Lame Corp Name
964
|
Posted - 2014.01.15 17:26:00 -
[31] - Quote
Ronny Hugo wrote: There's a time and place for exhumer V, but I think it is a very small niche.
Like pretty much every other V skills...
Welcome to EVE skill system. |
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
1089
|
Posted - 2014.01.15 21:44:00 -
[32] - Quote
All calculations I have ever don in theory or in practice point to "The only thing worth mining in New Eden is Gas in C5 and C6 wormholes." Mining anything else should only be done because you enjoy the act of mining and not the income from it.
**** anybody who tells you how to play a video game, math or not. Do what you want. Accounts may not be used for business purposes. Access to the System and playing EVE is intended for your personal entertainment, enjoyment and recreation, and not for corporate, business, commercial or income-seeking activities.-á |
Mister Simms
Society for Miner Education
9
|
Posted - 2014.01.15 22:35:00 -
[33] - Quote
Garak n00biachi wrote:Stop turning this game into a god damn spreadsheet...how hard is it to just play\enjoy the game.
If there are skills that benefit you more and take less than that lvl 5 do those first, in any other case just run the damn skill for a month and play the game.
The OP is certainly entitled to enjoy EVE the way he wants. "Spreadsheets is space" is an apt, and common description of EVE. If you don't like spreadsheets, or aren't smart enough to figure them out, then you can enjoy EVE your own way. |
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
600
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 00:45:00 -
[34] - Quote
Mister Simms wrote:Garak n00biachi wrote:Stop turning this game into a god damn spreadsheet...how hard is it to just play\enjoy the game.
If there are skills that benefit you more and take less than that lvl 5 do those first, in any other case just run the damn skill for a month and play the game. The OP is certainly entitled to enjoy EVE the way he wants. "Spreadsheets is space" is an apt, and common description of EVE. If you don't like spreadsheets, or aren't smart enough to figure them out, then you can enjoy EVE your own way.
I think he just called you stupid
In all seriousness I know lots of people that use spreadsheets. |
Austin McLaren
Addicts Anonymous
26
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 19:11:00 -
[35] - Quote
How about this.. You're mining away minding your own buisness and you notice it's 1 more cycle until you need to dock up and empty so you go pour a coffee. On returning to your keyboard you find your ship has been ganked!!
You're mining away and you notice at the end of the cycle your cargo is full and time to dock, you wait, hit dock and go pour a coffee.
Who had their skill to 5, who didn't lose 200m of assets? |
Ronny Hugo
Dark Fusion Industries Limitless Inc.
33
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 21:17:00 -
[36] - Quote
Austin, if you could calculate the decrease in risk from being ganked that one would get with a good tank fit, with and without Exhumer V, I would applaud and bow to you. |
Kat Bandeis
Laboratoires Armageddon 1121 Ventures
15
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 21:31:00 -
[37] - Quote
Others have already said it, so I'll repeat it because I'm at work and have time to kill.
1) Level 5 skills (for the most part) are completed to open up something else on the skillplan. Cruiser 5 is a perfect example of a skill WELL WORTH taking to L5. Archaeology/Hacking 5, not so much (given the spread of bonuses you get in other ways these two really aren't worth the effort). 2) Unless you're one of those anal-retentive types that sits a stopwatch next to your monitor to guage your isk per second in L4 blitzed missions, it really isn't worth it. The bonus that L5 gives you (OP) is minimal, and if you're planning that tiny percentage difference into your success or failure in EveO, you are just plain doing it wrong. 3) Who gives a flying fig what others here think? You want to do it, do it. Period.
And your comment about hoping CCP will see this thread and reconsider the whole L5 train time versus benefit is just plain stupid. Ponder your belly lint. It's more productive for you and wastes less time for the rest of us here that reply. |
Kat Bandeis
Laboratoires Armageddon 1121 Ventures
15
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 21:32:00 -
[38] - Quote
Austin McLaren wrote:How about this.. You're mining away minding your own buisness and you notice it's 1 more cycle until you need to dock up and empty so you go pour a coffee. On returning to your keyboard you find your ship has been ganked!!
You're mining away and you notice at the end of the cycle your cargo is full and time to dock, you wait, hit dock and go pour a coffee.
Who had their skill to 5, who didn't lose 200m of assets?
Ironically, this. On a whole butt-load of levels. |
Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
865
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 22:40:00 -
[39] - Quote
I wouldn't go so far as to say that Exhumer I is worth training. Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. (had this sig BEFORE Odyssey BC rebalance) And bring back the missile Inquisitor!! |
Mister Simms
Society for Miner Education
11
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 22:43:00 -
[40] - Quote
Kat Bandeis wrote:Austin McLaren wrote:How about this.. You're mining away minding your own buisness and you notice it's 1 more cycle until you need to dock up and empty so you go pour a coffee. On returning to your keyboard you find your ship has been ganked!!
You're mining away and you notice at the end of the cycle your cargo is full and time to dock, you wait, hit dock and go pour a coffee.
Who had their skill to 5, who didn't lose 200m of assets? Ironically, this. On a whole butt-load of levels.
I agree. This is great. |
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Ronny Hugo
Dark Fusion Industries Limitless Inc.
34
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 22:56:00 -
[41] - Quote
All this "if you want to do it, then you can do it" is for another thread. Here its about whether you SHOULD want to do it or not based on whether it is worth it irrespective of your feelings. And from a mining yield bonus standpoint, you need over 700 hours mining with a Hulk before you SHOULD want to train Exhumer V, but if you are never going to mine that much, you SHOULD NOT want to train Exhumer V to get more ore. Austin McLaren however, added to this discussion by pointing out that lowering risk may make it worth it, because if we assume you are ganked and lose a 200M ship every 4000M ore you mine, with Exhumer IV, then exhumer V may make it so you mine 200M more ore before you are successfully ganked. So you get 4200M isk worth of ore per Hulk instead of 4000M, which means you essentially have more mining yield (we assume you make the Hulk yourself so your mining yield is X minus whatever you use to make the Hulk. X is the amount you mine before losing a Hulk. If you went from 4000M X to 4200M X then you would have increased your yield by 5%, in addition to the 3% yield of Exhumer V. But You'd need to use your own Hulk loss data or the average X that Hulk miners have in Eve to calculate the real X).
Wanting to scratch ones mosquito-bite does not mean you should want to scratch it. Nor does it mean that you gain from scratching it. It may in fact hurt you scratch it (infections and whatnot). Translated into Exhumer V, it may have negative effects to you to train it if you do not mine enough to make a healthy return on investment.
If you are one of those who follow their emotions like a crazy Vulcan then economic planning through mathematical models is obviously not for you. So why on earth are you here in this thread? (not aimed at anyone specific) |
Sadario
Meatshield Bastards The Bastards.
7
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 11:54:00 -
[42] - Quote
Ronny Hugo wrote:Here its about whether you SHOULD want to do it
In some cases, what else is there to train?
Hypothetical scenario: I create a Hulk-alt on a new account to generate some income. I suck at generating income (see previous sentence), so I use my Mastercard to fuel my account with game-time. I complete *every* skill related to said alt, yet Exhumers 5 remains. I will not train a different skill, as it doesn't benefit me.
Why shouldn't I train it?
After completing all the skills, I will still continue swiping said Mastercard, without training skills, because they don't benefit me. Therefore PLEX = subscription-time, not skillqueue.
Training Exhumers to 5 is in this case my only option, and it certainly benefits me.
Just let it go, bro... |
Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
866
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 12:46:00 -
[43] - Quote
You're getting there. But here's a rundown of the points I think are most relevant to the decision:
1.) As was said before, how much more you actually mine (look at the margin by itself), and consider how much that SP costs (time/subscription cost/anything else relevant to you).
2.) As you mentioned, factor in losses not connected to skill training by subtracting from the main amount, while keeping the margin the same size.
3.) Consider how the value of your training time deprecates over time. As you train the skills you want, you start to train the skills you sort of want, and so on. At some point, Exhumers V will be worth training if you're already at Exhumers IV and still subscribed. You've just got to decide when that is.
4.) If mining is what you find fun or it is what gives you a feeling of accomplishment, then maybe training Exhumers V has value to you merely in completing it. Think back on what it was like for you to train Mining Barge V. Consider how much less you like mining now than when you started, look at how much you have left to accomplish as a miner, and admit to yourself that at some point down the road you will not be as interested in mining as you are now. What kind of backup training do you already have, and how soon are you likely to rely on it? Do you have tech II training in other ships? Do you need it? Maybe it will be fun to start your next style at tech I and work your way up, maybe you want to jump in at the top.
5.) Lastly, you've got to consider if training Exhumers at all is actually worth it. Consider the difference in income between an exhumer and a mining barge, and consider how much you lose in ganks either way. Consider the difference in tank and fittings, and also admit to yourself that a tanked barge/exhumer will never know about passing gankers who secretly looked at your tank and moved on. You may be able to maximize your output in spite of your tank and get more net profit; this is easier when the ship is cheaper.
========== I am aware of all of these complex mathematical relationships which can determine exactly which one is more important for me, but the differences are strong enough that I can estimate pretty easily. I have never flown an exhumer, and the first time I do, it will be because it is something I haven't done yet. I barely mine enough for profit, I certainly don't mine enough to profit off an exhumer. I also like to move around and mine in new areas. Rather than bring my barge with me, I get a new barge for a new area and leave the old one behind. I may use it again later. Also, I like to change up the barge type now and then. Sometimes it's a procurer, sometimes it's a retriever. It's generally not a covetor because the small mining yield bonus from that is lost in the time I put in to moving the ore more often, not to mention the energy I personally spend by watching my mining more keenly. Then again, covetor would be my barge of choice were I mining in a fleet with hauling support, and I were not AFK anyway. It may also be a good choice in New Order space, since you need to be present at your keyboard anyway. I don't know how their rules take to dumping ore in cans.
I hope this helps you make your decision. Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. (had this sig BEFORE Odyssey BC rebalance) And bring back the missile Inquisitor!! |
Ronny Hugo
Dark Fusion Industries Limitless Inc.
34
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 12:56:00 -
[44] - Quote
Sadario wrote:Ronny Hugo wrote:Here its about whether you SHOULD want to do it In some cases, what else is there to train? Hypothetical scenario: I create a Hulk-alt on a new account to generate some income. I suck at generating income (see previous sentence), so I use my Mastercard to fuel my account with game-time. I complete *every* skill related to said alt, yet Exhumers 5 remains. I will not train a different skill, as it doesn't benefit me. Why shouldn't I train it? After completing all the skills, I will still continue swiping said Mastercard, without training skills, because they don't benefit me. Therefore PLEX = subscription-time, not skillqueue. Training Exhumers to 5 is in this case my only option, and it certainly benefits me. Just let it go, bro... Edit: Just wanted to add... In this scenario the system works like a charm. Don't whine for a nerf/change because in your niche the system doesn't work. This is an MMO, not a singleplayer-game.
I'd pause skill training on my finished miner and make another alt miner on that account and then my game-time would train another exactly alike miner up while I made iskies from my Exhumer IV miner. When the alt is up to exhumer I put it on its own account and make iskies from it. Then I make another alt on original finished miner and let the new miner complete, then I make another alt on the second completed miner and change to training that. In lets say 6 months I train each miner so in 6 months I have 1, 12 months I have 2, 18 months I have 4, 24 months I have 8. If I just mine them all enough to buy 1 plex per account I make bank (if I mine enough with 1 miner to plex 1 miner, I can plex 8 accounts if I mine with 8 miners for the same amount of time). Lets say I mine all the miners 700M worth of ore per 30 days, plex is 600M. That is 100M profit per miner. Would I benefit from training them all to Exhumer V by the cost of almost an entire plex? No. And hey, if I decide that I don't want to mine all my miners this month, I just don't plex them that month. Or sell some when I get so many I can't mine with them all at once. It is more isk in making and selling them than to train Exhumer V if one does not mine each one more than 700 hours (700 hours with Hulk, way more with mackinaw). Eventually the market for miner toons dry up and you have to make other alts on your miner accounts, but then you can make Titan sitters and supercarrier sitters, which go for quite a bit, and other toons. Which also by my guesstimates make you more isk than training exhumer V (exhumer V only makes a profit if you mine more than 700 hours with all your miners).
I'm not whining, I'm informing you and everyone reading this that if you are one of those that go your whole lives not mining 700 hours in a Hulk, then you are better off not training Exhumer V.
EDIT: Respect to Reaver Glitterstim for actually making lots of points and adding to this discussion instead of missing the point like certain others. |
Frostys Virpio
Lame Corp Name
965
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 15:54:00 -
[45] - Quote
Ronny Hugo wrote:Sadario wrote:Ronny Hugo wrote:Here its about whether you SHOULD want to do it In some cases, what else is there to train? Hypothetical scenario: I create a Hulk-alt on a new account to generate some income. I suck at generating income (see previous sentence), so I use my Mastercard to fuel my account with game-time. I complete *every* skill related to said alt, yet Exhumers 5 remains. I will not train a different skill, as it doesn't benefit me. Why shouldn't I train it? After completing all the skills, I will still continue swiping said Mastercard, without training skills, because they don't benefit me. Therefore PLEX = subscription-time, not skillqueue. Training Exhumers to 5 is in this case my only option, and it certainly benefits me. Just let it go, bro... Edit: Just wanted to add... In this scenario the system works like a charm. Don't whine for a nerf/change because in your niche the system doesn't work. This is an MMO, not a singleplayer-game. I'd pause skill training on my finished miner and make another alt miner on that account and then my game-time would train another exactly alike miner up while I made iskies from my Exhumer IV miner. When the alt is up to exhumer I put it on its own account and make iskies from it. Then I make another alt on original finished miner and let the new miner complete, then I make another alt on the second completed miner and change to training that. In lets say 6 months I train each miner so in 6 months I have 1, 12 months I have 2, 18 months I have 4, 24 months I have 8. If I just mine them all enough to buy 1 plex per account I make bank (if I mine enough with 1 miner to plex 1 miner, I can plex 8 accounts if I mine with 8 miners for the same amount of time). Lets say I mine all the miners 700M worth of ore per 30 days, plex is 600M. That is 100M profit per miner. Would I benefit from training them all to Exhumer V by the cost of almost an entire plex? No. And hey, if I decide that I don't want to mine all my miners this month, I just don't plex them that month. Or sell some when I get so many I can't mine with them all at once. It is more isk in making and selling them than to train Exhumer V if one does not mine each one more than 700 hours (700 hours with Hulk, way more with mackinaw). Eventually the market for miner toons dry up and you have to make other alts on your miner accounts, but then you can make Titan sitters and supercarrier sitters, which go for quite a bit, and other toons. Which also by my guesstimates make you more isk than training exhumer V (exhumer V only makes a profit if you mine more than 700 hours with all your miners). I'm not whining, I'm informing you and everyone reading this that if you are one of those that go your whole lives not mining 700 hours in a Hulk, then you are better off not training Exhumer V. EDIT: Respect to Reaver Glitterstim for actually making lots of points and adding to this discussion instead of missing the point like certain others.
You do realise your miner has to stop miing if you do not dump a PLEX on it for it to still be allowed online to mine that 700 mill worth of ore right? It's not like you can stop paying the sub once it's completed and still have it in space to mine... Each account will be PLEXed so they can keep mining but you will also have SP getting added to every single active toon on those account so Exhumer V will be the only "usefull" skill you can get unless you have future plan for those miner alts.
Once all your yield skill are maxed out, Exhumer V is the only thing you can train that has any value to what you do unless you ahve other plans. If you only plan on mining, the skill queu might as well be filled with it than anythign else giving you 0 benefit. |
Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
868
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 16:39:00 -
[46] - Quote
Or he could be training Tactical Shield Manipulation 5 or Hull Upgrades 5 for better resists. Howabout Engineering 5 or Electronics 5 for stronger fitting? Maybe Shield Upgrades 5 to make shield extenders fit more easily? Or Mining Upgrades 5 to fit MLUs more easily? Howabout Refinery Operation 5 and Advanced Refinery Operation 5 to get more out of refining ore? Howabout level 4 ore processing skills to further boost refining as well as allow the use of tech II mining crystals? Howabout Scout Drone Operation 5 and Drone Interfacing 5 for better defense? Howabout Industrial 5 and Advanced Spaceship Command 5 for a freighter?
All of these are skills that benefit a miner. Exhumers 5 is not the only thing to train. Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. (had this sig BEFORE Odyssey BC rebalance) And bring back the missile Inquisitor!! |
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
602
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 17:43:00 -
[47] - Quote
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:Or he could be training Tactical Shield Manipulation 5 or Hull Upgrades 5 for better resists. Howabout Engineering 5 or Electronics 5 for stronger fitting? Maybe Shield Upgrades 5 to make shield extenders fit more easily? Or Mining Upgrades 5 to fit MLUs more easily? Howabout Refinery Operation 5 and Advanced Refinery Operation 5 to get more out of refining ore? Howabout level 4 ore processing skills to further boost refining as well as allow the use of tech II mining crystals? Howabout Scout Drone Operation 5 and Drone Interfacing 5 for better defense? Howabout Industrial 5 and Advanced Spaceship Command 5 for a freighter?
All of these are skills that benefit a miner. Exhumers 5 is not the only thing to train.
You have a good point. There's a lot of skills that will help fly ships better in Eve. This is the one thing I like about the game. If you could train all skills in a year or two I would've quit Eve a long time ago. I like the fact that I'm always improving my pilots.
I'm not against using spreadsheets but comparing skill training time to PLEX does seem silly. Of course I play a more casual style than most focusing on having fun rather than maximum efficiency. My wallet balance reflects this
If you look at the Exhumer skill bonus compared to other ship bonuses the 1% to 3% per level does seem a bit shortchanged to many 10% per level bonuses of other ships. Of course at this point I'm not sure if CCP could change it without upsetting a lot of Exhumer pilots that only have the skill at 4. You can't simply just change the bonus from 3% to 10% without lowering the base because that would cause market issues.
BTW Tactical Shield Manipulation 5 doesn't really help and I've heard from some that it can actually have a negative effect. You need it at 4 so you can fit T2 modules but that's where most leave it at. |
Anya Klibor
Insanely Twisted D3vil's Childr3n
632
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 18:47:00 -
[48] - Quote
I trained Marauders 5.
Twice. |
Shoogie
Serious Pixels
63
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 19:22:00 -
[49] - Quote
OP, you need to realize that you are bringing up very, very unusual cases.
The vast majority of players do not use a PLEX for dual character training, nor are they training up pilots for the purpose of selling them. Those are the two cases where PLEX-> SPs.
For everyone else, they are not paying for SPs. Everyone else is paying (whether by PLEX or credit card) to PLAY THE GAME. For us, we are paying to have access to the server and to do whatever we want to in the game. One of the side benefits of being a loyal CCP customer is that we get to allocate skillpoints to whatever skills we feel like. What do I think I will be doing in the future? That is what I will be putting my SPs towards.
For the record, I have Exhumers IV, though I have not sat in one for about 3 years. However, I am not arrogant enough to tell people they are playing the game wrong if they train differently than me.
Except for Tactical Shield Manipulation! That skill actually decreases your tank the higher level you have it trained. You are playing the game wrong if you train it to 5.
|
Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
870
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 19:43:00 -
[50] - Quote
Shoogie wrote:Except for Tactical Shield Manipulation! That skill actually decreases your tank the higher level you have it trained. You are playing the game wrong if you train it to 5.
I heard a rumor that training it to 5 makes it stop giving the penalty. That way you get the prerequisites covered without the bad part. Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. (had this sig BEFORE Odyssey BC rebalance) And bring back the missile Inquisitor!! |
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Frostys Virpio
Lame Corp Name
965
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 20:20:00 -
[51] - Quote
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:Or he could be training Tactical Shield Manipulation 5 or Hull Upgrades 5 for better resists. Howabout Engineering 5 or Electronics 5 for stronger fitting? Maybe Shield Upgrades 5 to make shield extenders fit more easily? Or Mining Upgrades 5 to fit MLUs more easily? Howabout Refinery Operation 5 and Advanced Refinery Operation 5 to get more out of refining ore? Howabout level 4 ore processing skills to further boost refining as well as allow the use of tech II mining crystals? Howabout Scout Drone Operation 5 and Drone Interfacing 5 for better defense? Howabout Industrial 5 and Advanced Spaceship Command 5 for a freighter?
All of these are skills that benefit a miner. Exhumers 5 is not the only thing to train.
And then what after that? Are we assuming he will quit mining in a few months? Refinery skill could all be done on a single one and same for the freighter stuff. He said he wants to go multi account anyway so at some point, it will be either Exhumer V or something 100% unrelated to mining and having a few alts, it will come fast unless he does stuff that makes no sense like trianing more than 1 refiner and maybe 2 hauler if he gets enough volume to move. Thats at most 3 of his account. Anything higher will only need processing to IV for the crystals on T2 strip miners. He might now be at that point right now but he will down the road get to the point where the SP is best invested there than anything else unless he plans to do something else than mining.
If he does have other plan, then it will be absed on what he value the most between 1.8xxx% yield while mining or whatever any other skill would give him on his other carrer path. |
Shoogie
Serious Pixels
63
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 20:23:00 -
[52] - Quote
What penalty? Shield Hardeners don't have a penalty, except their cap use which is constant.
If you are thinking that shield bleed-thorough damage is a penalty, you are wrong. You die when your hull is destroyed, not when your armor is scratched. Allowing damage to penetrate your shield means your shield will be at a higher level and passively re-generate more hps the next server tick.
More HPs is always better than less HPs. Therefore, training Tactical Shield Manipulation will decrease your tank. |
Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
870
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 20:26:00 -
[53] - Quote
Shield uniformity is the penalty. I heard a rumor that the skill is bugged, that training it to 5 actually puts you at only 80% uniformity. Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. (had this sig BEFORE Odyssey BC rebalance) And bring back the missile Inquisitor!! |
Liam Inkuras
Chaotic Tranquility Casoff
823
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 20:41:00 -
[54] - Quote
Plex prices change, the bonus does not
/thread
P.S. Play the damn game instead of looking at excel I wear my goggles at night.
Any spelling/grammatical errors come complimentary with my typing on a phone |
Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
872
|
Posted - 2014.01.18 00:33:00 -
[55] - Quote
Liam Inkuras wrote:Plex prices change, the bonus does not Don't forget that the price of Plex has for a long time had a strong correlation to the value of highsec ore. Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. (had this sig BEFORE Odyssey BC rebalance) And bring back the missile Inquisitor!! |
Ronny Hugo
Dark Fusion Industries Limitless Inc.
35
|
Posted - 2014.01.18 00:46:00 -
[56] - Quote
Liam Inkuras wrote:Plex prices change, the bonus does not
/thread
P.S. Play the damn game instead of looking at excel
I dunno, I play the game to the best of my abilities, and to figure out what the best thing to do is, requires excel. Since Eve have little in terms of good overview interfaces that serve the purpose that excel does. Things I do based on what I have found in excel is for example only training one research skill to L5 and then having 6 L4 research agents to do that one research (that is what I am currently working towards, standing grind is grinding slow). That way I get 6x max daily research points and don't need to train 5 other research skills to L5. The research skills take x5 training time, so that is 5x 1 256 000 SP that I don't have to train, that I can use on alts that also train one research skill to L5 and research project management V. its fun to get the maximum benefit for minimum input |
Kirkwood Ross
Golden Profession
119
|
Posted - 2014.01.18 01:27:00 -
[57] - Quote
Ronny Hugo wrote:Kirkwood Ross wrote:You didn't mention the extra effects from any mining implants or mining foreman links from that 3% increase. I wait for someone with actual expertise of the mathematical formula that calculates mining yield to give us some insight into how that works. Until then the 700 hour estimate as given by my trip in EVEHQ seems accurate enough. I left the OP open to (hopefully) more accurate rebuttals as indicated by the last sentence, but I think the mathematicians are over in the market discussion forum. "Do you plan on flying an exhumer(...)" You are correct. As I have stated, if one plans to mine enough Exhumer V is well worth it, but "enough" is over 700 hours of effective Hulk mining. There's a time and place for exhumer V, but I think it is a very small niche.
Both have max boosts/implants in a Hulk
203,520m3 per hour with V
198,240m3 per hour with IV
If you can mine in a good setup and have someone who guards against rats then you can start to add in the mighty yield of Mining Drone IIs. |
Bertrand Butler
Cras es Noster
142
|
Posted - 2014.01.18 01:38:00 -
[58] - Quote
If you have a mining toon in an account you will use for mining and you intend to actually mine with it then you will train exhumers V sooner or later.
No buts or ifs, no exceptions. You can not correlate isk for SP vs skill profit, since SPs come for free when you play the game. Its apples and oranges.
The only niche where exhumers V would be detrimental is if 1. you have a mining toon as an alt in the same account as your main which is not a miner, 2. you use plex for dual training 3. you use the account to train toons for selling and 4. you don't intend to mine much. All four at the same time.
Train exhumers V. isk is cheap anyway.. |
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
605
|
Posted - 2014.01.18 02:03:00 -
[59] - Quote
Wait I'm on my phone so I don't want to go through the OP's long posts but is he training two characters on the same account to mine??? You can only be logged on one at a time so if that's true I'm confused as to why... |
Ronny Hugo
Dark Fusion Industries Limitless Inc.
36
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Posted - 2014.01.18 02:16:00 -
[60] - Quote
IIshira wrote:Wait I'm on my phone so I don't want to go through the OP's long posts but is he training two characters on the same account to mine??? You can only be logged on one at a time so if that's true I'm confused as to why...
Each account gets to train skills on at least 1 toon, but when you reach Exhumer IV then you begin training another toon miner on your account. You still mine with your original toon, but you use the SP more effectively by training an additional miner (or other type of toon). When the other miner toon is complete and you want to mine with it, you put it on its own account and then you have two accounts with two finished miner toons. But you still get SP on these two accounts, so you begin training an extra miner toon on both accounts to make best use of the SP that each account ticks in. |
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