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Bertrand Butler
Cras es Noster
143
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Posted - 2014.01.18 02:24:00 -
[61] - Quote
Ronny Hugo wrote:IIshira wrote:Wait I'm on my phone so I don't want to go through the OP's long posts but is he training two characters on the same account to mine??? You can only be logged on one at a time so if that's true I'm confused as to why... Each account gets to train skills on at least 1 toon, but when you reach Exhumer IV then you begin training another toon miner on your account. You still mine with your original toon, but you use the SP more effectively by training an additional miner (or other type of toon). When the other miner toon is complete and you want to mine with it, you put it on its own account and then you have two accounts with two finished miner toons. But you still get SP on these two accounts, so you begin training an extra miner toon on both accounts to make best use of the SP that each account ticks in.
Thats sounds like a job, with the caveat of having to pay for it, instead of getting payed. I think you should really start to think harder about why you play this game man.
Moreover, what you describe is a very small niche, while you were arguing for the exact opposite. |

Ronny Hugo
Dark Fusion Industries Limitless Inc.
36
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Posted - 2014.01.18 02:43:00 -
[62] - Quote
It does not matter what it sounds like, its the most SP-efficient thing to do. The most time-efficient thing is to cook your own dinner the day you planned to go for takeout food, and then you can buy a plex or two for the money you saved. Then you make 1 200 000 000 isk for under an hours grinding and can go do PVP. |

Bertrand Butler
Cras es Noster
143
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Posted - 2014.01.18 02:50:00 -
[63] - Quote
Quote:The most time-efficient thing is to cook your own dinner the day you planned to go for takeout food, and then you can buy a plex or two for the money you saved. Then you make 1 200 000 000 isk for under an hours grinding and can go do PVP.
If you do understand that, go train exhumers V and buy a plex to train the other toon. Or even better, stop mining. |

Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
873
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Posted - 2014.01.18 03:11:00 -
[64] - Quote
One thing is for certain: when someone comes up with a brilliant and well thought out point to consider, not one other person will ever understand it.
I therefore conclude that I am not a person. Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. (had this sig BEFORE Odyssey BC rebalance) And bring back the missile Inquisitor!! |

IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
605
|
Posted - 2014.01.18 03:36:00 -
[65] - Quote
Ronny Hugo wrote:IIshira wrote:Wait I'm on my phone so I don't want to go through the OP's long posts but is he training two characters on the same account to mine??? You can only be logged on one at a time so if that's true I'm confused as to why... Each account gets to train skills on at least 1 toon, but when you reach Exhumer IV then you begin training another toon miner on your account. You still mine with your original toon, but you use the SP more effectively by training an additional miner (or other type of toon). When the other miner toon is complete and you want to mine with it, you put it on its own account and then you have two accounts with two finished miner toons. But you still get SP on these two accounts, so you begin training an extra miner toon on both accounts to make best use of the SP that each account ticks in.
Or you can actually put your second pilot on a separate account for exactly the same cost but be able to mine and make ISK with both at the same time. If you're concerned with efficiency why are you cutting your ISK per hour in half? |

Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
873
|
Posted - 2014.01.18 03:50:00 -
[66] - Quote
It's not the same cost. He can play one toon and plex the other when they are on the same account. Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. (had this sig BEFORE Odyssey BC rebalance) And bring back the missile Inquisitor!! |

Silvetica Dian
Manson Family Advent of Fate
597
|
Posted - 2014.01.18 14:44:00 -
[67] - Quote
Garak n00biachi wrote:Stop turning this game into a god damn spreadsheet...how hard is it to just play\enjoy the game.
If there are skills that benefit you more and take less than that lvl 5 do those first, in any other case just run the damn skill for a month and play the game.
he is a miner so he isn't enjoying the game anyway here is a list of all the fiat currencies that didn't end up at zero value.....and here is a list of the places where a currency pegged to a real commodity has successfully co-existed with compound interest....-á Here is a physics professor explaining why sustainable growth isn't a thing http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-QA2rkpBSY |

IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
605
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Posted - 2014.01.18 19:06:00 -
[68] - Quote
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:It's not the same cost. He can play one toon and plex the other when they are on the same account.
You can also do this with pilots on separate accounts. Just as you can pay with cash or PLEX for a second pilot on the same account you can do this if it's on a separate account. |

RAIN Arthie
The Ascended Fleet Intrepid Crossing
195
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Posted - 2014.01.18 19:29:00 -
[69] - Quote
http://i.imgur.com/2h6D2Wr.png?1
That pic tells a story of mining. An epic grand scale mining multiboxing miner with loads of isk. That isk can crush you at the wave of his finger. So yes, you should train exhumers all the way up. |

Ronny Hugo
Dark Fusion Industries Limitless Inc.
37
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Posted - 2014.01.19 01:18:00 -
[70] - Quote
Rain Arthie, that person probably has to mine something like 2100 hours to make profit from training Exhumer V (since he uses Mackinaws). If he does this, he should have trained Exhumer V, but if does not, it would be a detriment to his wallet if he trained Exhumer V on all these accounts instead of using all these accounts to train new miners.
Ilshira, when one has completed training a miner up to Exhumer IV on toon 1 on account 1 you still get SP on account 1. If you made another account right away and began training a miner on account 2, what would you spend the SP that account 1 racks in every month you play on it? Making the second account before toon 2 on account 1 is completed is a waste of the account 1 SP (unless you have something to train on toon 1 other than mining skills). |
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IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
607
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Posted - 2014.01.19 01:56:00 -
[71] - Quote
Ronny Hugo wrote: Ilshira, when one has completed training a miner up to Exhumer IV on toon 1 on account 1 you still get SP on account 1. If you made another account right away and began training a miner on account 2, what would you spend the SP that account 1 racks in every month you play on it? Making the second account before toon 2 on account 1 is completed is a waste of the account 1 SP (unless you have something to train on toon 1 other than mining skills).
Okay sorry I'm a bit confused.
You're saying you have two mining pilots on one account. Both are actively training by using a PLEX because you're about to finish training on pilot 1 and don't want to make a new account for pilot 2? If this is correct that makes sense since you won't have to pay the transfer fee once you finish pilot 2.
That still doesn't clear up my confusion about why would you want two mining pilots on the same account. Since you can only log into one the other one will always make 0 ISK per hour. You're spending double training time for no added benefit. |

Ronny Hugo
Dark Fusion Industries Limitless Inc.
37
|
Posted - 2014.01.19 02:10:00 -
[72] - Quote
Jeez. You have 1 plex per month on your account, but you turn off the training on your first finished miner so you can train the other miner on that account. You can train any 1 of the 3 characters on each account, doesn't matter which. As long as you pause one queue when you want to train another queue. |

IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
607
|
Posted - 2014.01.19 02:24:00 -
[73] - Quote
Ronny Hugo wrote:Jeez. You have 1 plex per month on your account, but you turn off the training on your first finished miner so you can train the other miner on that account. You can train any 1 of the 3 characters on each account, doesn't matter which. As long as you pause one queue when you want to train another queue.
I thought you were talking about the new "Dual character training" where you can train two accounts at the same time... Sorry not all here... Posting on the forms and watching a Chinese war series on another laptop. I have no clue what they're saying but it's pretty good 
Why have two miners on one account anyway since you can use only one? That was my big question.
I agree that the bonus is low compared to other ships but what do you suggest as a fix? I would think if they just increased the bonus without lowering the base value it would cause ore prices to drop. |

Ronny Hugo
Dark Fusion Industries Limitless Inc.
37
|
Posted - 2014.01.19 03:02:00 -
[74] - Quote
"Why have two miners on one account anyway since you can use only one? That was my big question."
I haven't got a clue where the confusion lay. If character 1 on account 1 is a miner that is maxed out (1) then it is like a full glass of water, there's no point in training more on it. So you put a glass next to it, under the same tap, and then you fill another glass (train another miner on the same account). Once you have two full miners you put one on account 2 and start filling a second miner on both accounts. Because both miners are full.
(1) - Maxed out means that it no longer is beneficial to train more mining skills. If you mine with mackinaw you have to mine 2100 hours to begin making profit on Exhumer V, if you mine with Hulk you have to mine 700 hours before you begin making profit on Exhumer V. So if you mine with Mackinaw and will not mine more than 2100 hours during the next few years, then maxed out means that you have trained Exhumer IV (And all the other beneficial skills).
I'm not saying its "broken", because not all skills have to be profitable right away. But people should know they're not profitable right away, and they should know when they become profitable. When it comes to Exhumer V, it becomes profitable only when you mine more than 700 hours with Hulk, or 2100 hours with Mackinaw. |

Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
883
|
Posted - 2014.01.19 03:07:00 -
[75] - Quote
Ronny, I've got to ask you a few questions, out of curiosity:
1.) you seem to have the answers to your original questions (in fact you seem to be the only one), so why are you still here?
2.) are there any unanswered questions you have remaining?
3.) is this a stealth educational thread meant to teach people how to excel at spreadsheet mining?
4.) how would you honestly rate your avatar, absent any opinions you think or know others have of it?
I mean no ill will and carry no hidden agenda with this. I'm just curious to get your answers to these. Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. (had this sig BEFORE Odyssey BC rebalance) And bring back the missile Inquisitor!! |

Ronny Hugo
Dark Fusion Industries Limitless Inc.
37
|
Posted - 2014.01.19 04:02:00 -
[76] - Quote
1. I haven't got a clue why I post to forums, it has no profit involved and only every so rarely do I find someone else who have spent time and effort to try to put value in their comment, but alas, here I am because I'm bored.
2. I'd really like it if someone who had studied the mining yield stuff would come and give us a more accurate timescale than my 700 hours estimate, possibly calculating the time to make a profit on Exhumer IV and all the Mining Barge levels etc. The thing with spreadsheets is that once you have put a formula in you can mass-produce answers by dragging the corner of the box down, possibly giving us a beautiful spreadsheet showing us how long it takes to make a profit from every mining skill alone and put together in various ways. I make spreadsheets with the turret formula to see how all the variables change damage application with and without various help (target painters, tracking computers, falloff rigs etc), but I have not yet bothered to look into the mining yield formula to do the same thing.
3. I thought one or two of the dozens that read the OP would find the thought of Exhumer V skill profitability interesting, and thus posted it for posterity because it might save some people who don't mine often 20 days of SP.
4. I presume my avatar has no reason to want to look tough or dangerous because that is how people make money. They say "Oh look, this car looks like it means business with its black paint, low clearance and angry-looking headlamps" and then this fool pays a premium to get a car that he thinks makes him look high-status, dangerous and tough, when his old car works just fine. Then they sell this person dangerous-looking monocles and robot arms and black trench-coats and Titans. No ill will intended :P |

RAIN Arthie
The Ascended Fleet Intrepid Crossing
197
|
Posted - 2014.01.19 12:05:00 -
[77] - Quote
Ronny Hugo wrote:Rain Arthie, that person probably has to mine something like 2100 hours to make profit from training Exhumer V (since he uses Mackinaws). If he does this, he should have trained Exhumer V, but if does not, it would be a detriment to his wallet if he trained Exhumer V on all these accounts instead of using all these accounts to train new miners.
Ilshira, when one has completed training a miner up to Exhumer IV on toon 1 on account 1 you still get SP on account 1. If you made another account right away and began training a miner on account 2, what would you spend the SP that account 1 racks in every month you play on it? Making the second account before toon 2 on account 1 is completed is a waste of the account 1 SP (unless you have something to train on toon 1 other than mining skills).
I see your point however we know very little about the op. He could be rich with loads of money that can do something like this. I say do it if mining is your passion. If your not sure don't do it. |

Ronny Hugo
Dark Fusion Industries Limitless Inc.
39
|
Posted - 2014.01.19 12:25:00 -
[78] - Quote
RAIN Arthie wrote:I see your point however we know very little about the op. He could be rich with loads of money that can do something like this. I say do it if mining is your passion. If your not sure don't do it.
The rich man who shows all the signs of being a poor middle-class man is a rich man who most likely will stay rich. In other words, just because one can afford to waste, that does not mean waste is wise. |

IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
613
|
Posted - 2014.01.19 15:46:00 -
[79] - Quote
Ronny Hugo wrote:"Why have two miners on one account anyway since you can use only one? That was my big question."
I haven't got a clue where the confusion lay. If character 1 on account 1 is a miner that is maxed out (1) then it is like a full glass of water, there's no point in training more on it. So you put a glass next to it, under the same tap, and then you fill another glass (train another miner on the same account). Once you have two full miners you put one on account 2 and start filling a second miner on both accounts. Because both miners are full.
(1) - Maxed out means that it no longer is beneficial to train more mining skills. If you mine with mackinaw you have to mine 2100 hours to begin making profit on Exhumer V, if you mine with Hulk you have to mine 700 hours before you begin making profit on Exhumer V. So if you mine with Mackinaw and will not mine more than 2100 hours during the next few years, then maxed out means that you have trained Exhumer IV (And all the other beneficial skills).
I'm not saying its "broken", because not all skills have to be profitable right away. But people should know they're not profitable right away, and they should know when they become profitable. When it comes to Exhumer V, it becomes profitable only when you mine more than 700 hours with Hulk, or 2100 hours with Mackinaw.
Okay you're not getting my point so I'm making it simple 
2 x Miners on 1 account = Only 1 miner can be used at a time = 50% wasted SP
2 x Miners on 2 accounts = Both miners can be used together = No wasted SP
|

Ronny Hugo
Dark Fusion Industries Limitless Inc.
40
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 03:54:00 -
[80] - Quote
I get what you say, but you are not getting what I am saying.
"2 x Miners on 2 accounts = Both miners can be used together = No wasted SP"
What will you spend the SP from account 1 on? The miner on that account is fully trained. |
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Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
889
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 03:58:00 -
[81] - Quote
howabout advanced weapon upgrades and advanced drone interfacing? Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. (had this sig BEFORE Odyssey BC rebalance) And bring back the missile Inquisitor!! |

Ronny Hugo
Dark Fusion Industries Limitless Inc.
40
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 04:01:00 -
[82] - Quote
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:howabout advanced weapon upgrades and advanced drone interfacing?
Please suggest how those skills would make a return on investment for a miner. |

IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
615
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 04:33:00 -
[83] - Quote
Ronny Hugo wrote:I get what you say, but you are not getting what I am saying.
"2 x Miners on 2 accounts = Both miners can be used together = No wasted SP"
What will you spend the SP from account 1 on? The miner on that account is fully trained.
I guess if all you want to train for is mining nothing once you get all your mining skills up. I'm running into this with my mission pilot at the moment. I'm just saying if you had them on separate accounts you would double your ISK per hour. Right now you have two pilots on one account that do exactly the same thing. It's your PLEX though so I'm not one to tell you how to play. I just thought it didn't seem efficient or logical. |

Ronny Hugo
Dark Fusion Industries Limitless Inc.
40
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 05:07:00 -
[84] - Quote
If you had 1 fully trained miner and 1 training miner you would not double your isk by having them on separate accounts. The new miner has low yield. If you for example mine the fully trained miner enough to get 700 000 000 isk every month, so you can plex it and have 70M to spare, then the new miner would not be able to pay for itself until very late in the training. Hence, you train the new miner on the finished miner account instead of on its own account. I have thought this through, training the new miner on the finished miner account is the efficient way. |

Sadario
Meatshield Bastards The Bastards.
8
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 12:40:00 -
[85] - Quote
Following your logic, it is correct it isn't worth training, assuming you spend eternity creating new miners.
As soon as you reach your preferred amount of miners, with all of them on separate accounts, fully trained with the exception of Exhumers 5, you are going to train it.
It's not a question wether it's worth training. It's a question when the inevitable occurs. |

Ronny Hugo
Dark Fusion Industries Limitless Inc.
40
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 14:52:00 -
[86] - Quote
Sadario, as previously stated a bunch of times, my logic on Exhumer V is to only train it if I will mine that toon with a hulk more than 700 hours (more than 2100 hours if mackinaw). Once I reached my preferred amount of miners I would begin training other types of toons, perhaps offer my corp to order the ones they need (I could churn out many at one time). So, no, your statement "It's not a question wether it's worth training." is wrong. |

Noxisia Arkana
Deadspace Knights
60
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 15:16:00 -
[87] - Quote
Garak n00biachi wrote:Stop turning this game into a god damn spreadsheet...how hard is it to just play\enjoy the game.
If there are skills that benefit you more and take less than that lvl 5 do those first, in any other case just run the damn skill for a month and play the game.
I'm going to frame this above my computer. |

James Nikolas Tesla
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
13
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 03:14:00 -
[88] - Quote
What I want to know is how the OP got 400,000,000ISK out of a 20+ day skill? I am an AFK miner, don't like it? Try to gank me, odds are I am already aligned and not that far from my keyboard. |

Ronny Hugo
Dark Fusion Industries Limitless Inc.
41
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 07:12:00 -
[89] - Quote
James Nikolas Tesla wrote:What I want to know is how the OP got 400,000,000ISK out of a 20+ day skill? It costs 600 000 000 isk to plex your account for 30 days, hence 20 days of gametime is 400 000 000 isk. |
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