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How Propaganda effects wars.

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Nafri	Posted - 2006.03.23 23:05:00 - [31] Originally by: Cmd Woodlouse Originally by: Nafri Jade Constantine did propaganda I havent seen a decent forum post here for years yupp. jade constantine, now THAT was a weapon on galnet. the rest is obvious, boring and repeating all the time tbh... She gave me always a headache, and the feeling that if I dont agree with her, I mist be a fool
Liet Traep	Posted - 2006.03.23 23:19:00 - [32] Propagan da wins wars in eve. I'd say that Bob and .5 use it most often and well. Anytiome something is posted negatively about Bob there are legions of Bob and their fans to show up and shout it down. Same with .5 Bob has also been on the forums frequently to tell a foe how their time is over to try and break their morale. .5 uses propaganda to reward reward or punish. They shout down and flame their enemies and make very nice posts about alliances who do what they wish. Go back and check old posts about how they flamed xetic during the wars but once ASCN was formed and set positive standings with them all the posts were very warm and fuzzy. Same with F-E. Look at the negative posts regarding NBSI and PA during the recent wars. Lots of flame during the wars. Once NBSI ended the empire war and left for Syndicate the posts were very positive, almost as a reward to NBSI. (Not that NBSI cares what .5 thinks of them. :) Positive reinforcement at it's best. I personally dislike Bob and .5 so take what I say with a grain of salt. However both alliances use the forums very well indeed and I acknowledge their skill.
Professor McFly	Posted - 2006.03.24 00:24:00 - [33] It's not only propaganda, it's how influential players behave and speak on the forum. Prime example is the Serenity Steel thread above, you can see a lot of peoples' opinions of ISS as an alliance changing as a result of a few posts (mine included). The same can be said for many alliances in the past, imo. __________________ Inappropriate link description. --Jorauk mods - pwning sigs since 1943
Raid	Posted - 2006.03.24 03:53:00 - [34] psychological warfare
Gungankllr	Posted - 2006.03.24 09:03:00 - [35] I believe forums are both a bane and a blessing in our game. For example, If BoB makes a statement that you're beaten, I can pretty safely assume that they aren't lying, because as I was in BNC for a time, I have seen it first hand, more than once. On the other hand, take Burn Eden for example. They make grandiose statements on who they are going to kill, and who they have killed / brought to their knees... But in all honesty they say quite a bit on the forums, but don't in reality do a whole lot. (BE vs. BLUE, for instance.) So to answer your original qustion, the forums are what makes the game so unique. Wars are begun and lost over statements made on the forums. BoB are infamous for what they do in space, which if you sit back and think about it, they've done a hell of a lot. BE are infamous for boasting to do things in space, then never following through before moving on to something else. Mo0 became infamous because of the forums. Not because of their official statements or actions, but because of the general populace posting about their actions. Without the forums, this game wouldn't be as addictive as it is. Everything on the forums (Except mindless spam) furthers the game just a little. I've learned who hired merc corps against us from a main accidentally posting with their alt. I've learned about upcoming attacks in our regions from buy orders or recruiting posts I've seen on the forums. The forums are a game all in themselves. I don't post that much, because quite frankly, I'm not really an important person in my alliance. But people do remember who I am from my posts.
Rod Blaine	Posted - 2006.03.24 09:12:00 - [36] That's because of that thing in your sig m8, don't be thinking yourself big now hear ya Forum propaganda is teh win. I absolutely loved the GNW for it. For the way in which argumenting on these forums can play a role in decisions made by readers ingame. But tbh, Like DBP says. Alot of it is about forcing people to see what is happening to them. We saw in the GNW that PA was very good at denying internally that they kept getting their behinds kicked ingame. That kept morale artifiially high, and the forum posts of the likes oj Jade, SirMolle and DBP were the counterweight. Other then that, see Blacklights comment. Power to the players !
Darcuese	Posted - 2006.03.24 09:40:00 - [37] Forum propaganda have a big impact on conflict development on field. Reason is quite simple, tbh. Any alliance and corp has its own leaders and those that follow the leadership. Belief that "soldiers" have in their own leaders dictate the output of forum propaganda. If ppl are not much active and dont communicate among themself , the info they pick on forums can put some sceptic thoughts in to their mind. So they will be less and less active in alliance ops....cause they dont have complete trust in their leaders and at the same time enemy posts on forums do have some background and were written in very clever way. So , its all come to....DO you believe your CEO's , or, are you a sceptic? More sceptics in corps....more danger to brake down. DEAD or ALIVE we allways have some fun. DO YOU??
Gungankllr	Posted - 2006.03.24 09:57:00 - [38] Originally by: Rod Blaine That's because of that thing in your sig m8, don't be thinking yourself big now hear ya I do get called primary a lot, even if I'm in a retarded ship.
Fi T'Zeh	Posted - 2006.03.24 10:26:00 - [39] Binks must die .... Real men use blasters
Fred0	Posted - 2006.03.24 10:34:00 - [40] Edited by: Fred0 on 24/03/2006 10:35:21 Even though forum propaganda can have an impact I still think it's vastly outscored by all the 1on1 convo's and meetings that decides policy and common courses of action. Taking the GNW for example. What won it and swung it back and forth a number of times was the alliances that were created and destroyed in various backrooms. Not what Molle, Jade or anyone else posted on the forums. Forums are nigh on impossible to control even if certain people are good at getting the upper hand on them but their logic dictates counter weights automatically get into action. Imho forums are abit overrated. EDIT: Fair point Darceuse. When a group becomes very big and not cohesive, not communicating much and so on then it can have a greater impact I guess. ---
Entilzah Valen	Posted - 2006.03.24 10:45:00 - [41] Originally by: Fi T'Zeh Binks must die
Sylic	Posted - 2006.03.24 11:39:00 - [42] I rarely read the forums myself but is an effective tool in making one corps mistakes look like an alliance folly.. A good example of this ONE tribal souls corp loose 6-7 freighter (i cant remember the numbers). So when this was posted it was made to look like the alliance as a whole lost these freighters. However it was an embarasment to the whole. Is why i dont read these to often cause 50/50 chance the whole story isnt there or it gets flamed so much you cant make heads or tails of what did happen. Just my thought cause it is DT and i cant go to sleep..
pershphanie	Posted - 2006.03.24 11:41:00 - [43] Originally by: FowlPlayChiken bawk! bawwwwwwk!
Fi T'Zeh	Posted - 2006.03.24 12:03:00 - [44] The right to Bawwwk is something that must be earned. Prove to me you are worthy by telling me the first game that the Chiken Confederation played online. Oh, and you get a cookie, no asking GuaRRand, that's cheating. /Signed Fitz, former Chiken. .... Real men use blasters
Gungankllr	Posted - 2006.03.24 12:05:00 - [45] moin.
Wild Rho	Posted - 2006.03.24 12:33:00 - [46] Originally by: Cmd Woodlouse Originally by: Nafri Jade Constantine did propaganda I havent seen a decent forum post here for years yupp. jade constantine, now THAT was a weapon on galnet. the rest is obvious, boring and repeating all the time tbh... Gotta agree with that, Jades posts (whether you believed them or not) were at least written so they were fun to read. The garbage posted here these days doesn't even come close.
Blydchyld	Posted - 2006.03.24 12:54:00 - [47] Originally by: Fi T'Zeh The right to Bawwwk is something that must be earned. Prove to me you are worthy by telling me the first game that the Chiken Confederation played online. Oh, and you get a cookie, no asking GuaRRand, that's cheating. /Signed Fitz, former Chiken. You mean infinitychiken and T.A (total annihilation). When i say bawk, i say bawk from a 5 year long membership! I LIKE ARK! The above post is my post and does not represent the views of any entity, If my views have upset you PM me
Garia666	Posted - 2006.03.24 13:08:00 - [48] Ppl talk to much. There is only one effect wich can be get out of this. Disrespect.. Most ppl take things 2 personal . or by talking make enemy`s. If we would talk less respect your NME more and fight for your right.. Things would be allot more peacefull ADGA Website
K Shara	Posted - 2006.03.24 13:42:00 - [49] Propaganda can sap the moral of your enemy, they wont take part in a battle because they feel they have already lost. Or if they do take part they will be ready to run feeling that the cause is already lost and the battle decided. It can incite arguments in your enemies, a divided enemy is a week enemy. however, if your propaganda is too good your enemies just sit in station and rotate in their hangers
Stradivarious	Posted - 2006.03.24 14:54:00 - [50] Forum warfare.... well it both has its place and doesn't imo... I used to be much more active posting and eventually realized there was truely no point to it. I just sit back and laugh for the most part now :) K/D ratio > forum warfare imo, now if only I had more time for solo pvp like I used to :/ RL interfering too much however... Morale is indeed a factor in alliance warfare, nothing like logging in knowing that chances are you are going to spend hours camping a gate for absolutely no gain, or even be camped inside a station. Makes it so theres no point to even load eve after a couple days of it, at least for those that can't cope with it... Eventually half the alliance/corp just doesn't log in... If you let yourself get affected easily by what others say and think, the forum warriors have won, without having to fire a shot or even be able to play eve... best example of how to deal with it is in Bozlin's(former CFI, now a member of Shiva Systems) signiture, specifically the modified Sir Molle sig I like to think of myself as the chlorine in the gene pool. Click the sig for the VC KB
Elve Sorrow	Posted - 2006.03.24 14:56:00 - [51] Wars are fought ingame, but wars are won on the EVE-o Forums, a corps/alliance's Private forums, and to a lesser extend local channel.
Omber Zombie	Posted - 2006.03.24 17:03:00 - [52] 1 good forum warrior is worth 10 good combat pilots (at least in my opinion) in any conflict. It's a shame the art of forum war has been turned into generic flame wars over the last year or so. I mourn the loss of the warriors that have fallen to the banstick or that horrible disease known as RL. Oz, forum warrior in training ---------------------- I have a blog
Hardin	Posted - 2006.03.24 17:30:00 - [53] AMARR VICTOR --------------------------------- Smiting pirates and terrorists since Sept 2003
Hans Roaming	Posted - 2006.03.24 17:44:00 - [54] Watch the scene with Adlai Stevenson and the Soviet ambassador when he presents the missile pictures in Cuba in the film Thirteen Days to understand the effect of words on conflict. President Huzzah Federation Be all you can be, join the Huzzah Armed Forces today!
Fi T'Zeh	Posted - 2006.03.24 17:54:00 - [55] Originally by: Blydchyld Edited by: Blydchyld on 24/03/2006 13:30:07 Originally by: Fi T'Zeh The right to Bawwwk is something that must be earned. Prove to me you are worthy by telling me the first game that the Chiken Confederation played online. Oh, and you get a cookie, no asking GuaRRand, that's cheating. /Signed Fitz, former Chiken. You mean infinitychiken and T.A (total annihilation). When i say bawk, i say bawk from a 5 year long membership! (Edit: just read about peekAboochiken, bad news indeed :( ) cookie for you, although your post about peeks worries me. /StonedChiken runs off to read the CC forums. .... Real men use blasters
Leno	Posted - 2006.03.24 18:01:00 - [56] Originally by: Dirtball it's all about moral, which can be influenced in game or out. omg i get to QFT something! QFT --------------- RIP - Smoske, My Friend
Halseth Durn	Posted - 2006.03.24 18:32:00 - [57] The days of grand propaganda swinging the morale and resolve of large numbers of pilots is unfortunately gone. Why? Because when eve was young, individuals were dealing with an underdeveloped communication network. Back in the day, you spoke with the same people in your corp, a few from your alliance channel, and you got your galactic news from THIS FORUM. Today, all the vets know (and mostly respect) each other. People tell the truth in private convos with an old comrade regardless if they were once enemies or not. Propaganda wars between the powerful veterans in EVE is no longer an effective tool.
S3VYN	Posted - 2006.03.25 05:05:00 - [58] Forum wars require a special sort of personality to maintain properly. Any major entity who completely denies the power of these forums (read: the single communication network the entire community shares) denies themselves the full power of the available tools to wage war and expand their realm of influence. If there are three tools to winning a war (as the OP stated) then denying yourself the use of one requires that you be prolific in the other two, almost to the point of impossibility. I agree with a previous poster, however. When I was the mouthpiece for FIX things that were said in private very commonly did not reflect what existed or was said on these boards. It is a daily struggle and there is NO safety net. If you screw up on these boards you might as well create a new character. I offer two examples... FA - Very limited forum presence which (I believe) eventually led to their perceptual demise WELL before their actual demise. Orc A - Quite the opposite presence, but achieved the same eventual result. It's never about morale (note the proper spelling ;)), it's about perception. Perception is, after all, reality in a video game. Those who win wars write history and those who control perception win wars. BTW - Great thread. ------------------------------------- // The views expressed by this poster are not the views of the poster's corporation, alliance, planet or television network... but they should be.
pershphanie	Posted - 2006.03.25 07:40:00 - [59] Edited by: pershphanie on 25/03/2006 07:41:36 Originally by: Halseth Durn The days of grand propaganda swinging the morale and resolve of large numbers of pilots is unfortunately gone. Why? Because when eve was young, individuals were dealing with an underdeveloped communication network. Back in the day, you spoke with the same people in your corp, a few from your alliance channel, and you got your galactic news from THIS FORUM. Today, all the vets know (and mostly respect) each other. People tell the truth in private convos with an old comrade regardless if they were once enemies or not. Propaganda wars between the powerful veterans in EVE is no longer an effective tool. I completly disagree. Propaghanda is alive and well in eve. Morale is still 80% of every war. Morale is created and lost on these forums. Due to several changes to eve battles are much more than who ended up with the most kills at the end of a fight. There now can be many objectives to a battle. Who wins or loses is very much up to interpretation in many cases. How those battle outcomes are interpreted dictates your alliances morale. There is still no better way to kill an alliance than screaming over and over again "xxx alliance is dead". That may be lame, but its true. Even quality alliances with 75% vets who have been in 0.0 eve for 2 years have 25% casual players who can still have very good skill points. If you can get that 25% to believe their alliance is getting their asses kicked they may go do missions, not log on, etc. If your alliances 100ship fleet gets decreased to a 75 ship fleet that can very easily make the difference between you fighting and sitting at a ss all day. This is when the 'internal problems' start and you start to hear 'xxx is dead' on these forums. This is how decay begins. The most retarded part of all of this is that alot of times it is external parties who have really no clue in what is going on in a situation can play the biggest factor. For example lets say alliance 1 is fighting alliance 2. Its obvious that those two parties are going to have bad things to say about each other. However when alliances 3,4,5 who are neutral in the conflict get in on a thread saying 'alliance 1 is dead' even though they make have no clue what is going on they come off as more credible because they are 'neutral' in the situation. As lame as that may sound I've found it to be true.
Dukath	Posted - 2006.03.25 08:34:00 - [60] Originally by: Blydchyld Any form of communication in support of national objectives designed to influence the opinions, emotions, attitudes, or behavior of any group in order to benefit the sponsor, either directly or indirectly. In EvE we have 3 methods of PvP. Killing Each Other. Price Wars. Forum Wars. An alliance can loose 75% of its combat forces and score a massive defeat, an alliance can attack another, cause huge amounts of damage to their Enemys but come no where near defeating them an alliance can even take a Outpost from another at the cost of blood. To me these are the facts, the important things. However the official word of the action is posted here to the EvE-Online Forums, Alliances win and loose wars withour rounds being fired or without the mobilisation of a fleet. I read these forums a fair bit, i notice there are masters of the written word along the likes of Dark Shirkari with his love of little blue robots and DBpreacher with his word carrying the weight of BoB, I have much respect for these guys and how they can join a thread make a comment and re-direct the entire topic. Firstly, i ask you, the community of EvE for your opinion on Forum Warfare, those warriors (keep it nice, or dont bother posting) and to answer one simple question, Why are the EvE-O forums such a important part of the game. Please do not choose this thread to add your trolling and flames too, im sure you can find some political thread to spam on. The main reason for 'forum wars' lies in the impossibility to finish off someone. NPC stations in 0.0, non persistant ships give one side complete immunity from the other side. This leads the losing team often to rely on boredom tactics than on trying to defend their space. The flamefest erupt simply out of pure frustration, you know you are better, you know they can't hurt you but simply because of a game mechanic you can't make them leave your space, you can't invade their space, push them back to empire. Once NPC stations either become conquerable or would implement faction standings (docking fees, docking rights based on standings etc) and persistant ships finally get added to the game (you can safely log off at a POS, you can build stations,... there is no reason fro ships not to remain in space), pods can still disappear for all i care though. Once alliances have a real way to control their space the flaming and forums wars will die out a bit (not completely though), but at least the propaganda will be more checkable. (an alliance can really be pushed back to empire then, right now they just dock and log when the space owners enter system and log back in as soon as they leave)

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