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Renturu
Tribal Spirit Tribal Unity Alliance
2
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Posted - 2011.11.09 05:17:00 -
[151] - Quote
Well, the only thing I could see as a "WOW experience" (such an absolute fail term, but we'll go with it) would be to make only 1.0 Concordable. No Concord in .9 down. That should be left to factions.
Come on, the start out systems are in 1.0 and you are generally protected. If you want to get more profitable, they need to join a corp, learn the ropes and get rich, like the "current player base" has. The one thing that I LOVE about EVE is that it is brutal... It's not all lovey dovey, hold your hand and give you a cookie. In fact, if you don't catch on quickly, you'll get raped, have your hands cut off and get your "cookie" taken away.
I guess when (that's meant "IF") Incarna goes full steam (with true WiS), the player base will grow as there are many who would love to play with space barbies rather than space ships. That, per CCP, is just not in the dice atm.
IDK, my plug nickel |
Alaric Faelen
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
1
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Posted - 2011.11.09 05:53:00 -
[152] - Quote
Wouldn't normally reply here, but among the bad there is the good posting too, and to that I'll respond.
I played WoW for a bit but disliked it fairly quickly, in fact the more I got into it, the less I liked it. I've played Eve for a little over half a year now, and I like Eve quite a bit more, although I go through periods of not playing then playing a bunch.
If this stings, sorry but the truth always hurts someone. The player base between the two games isn't very different. Eve players like to think there is, but the good folk are good regardless of the scenery and the video game loser stereotypes are the same everywhere. I've seen shockingly bad examples within days of playing any MMO, so to me, it's a wash. The sad fact is that the single greatest frustration or 'glitch' in any MMO- is the other people.
One thing that no one ever mentions, but was the thing that struck me the hardest when I first played Eve- is that the actual gameplay of Eve is endless menu boxes. You can double click in space a bit, and hotkey systems, but really- the entire Eve 'experience' is a million menu boxes. Think about that- for as pretty as Eve is, you could essentially play it without the spaceship on screen, and in fact most screens become so cluttered with menu boxes flashing bits of info that you can often completely miss the space battle burning up your graphics card.
Obviously I still like Eve. Although I must admit that it's often more fun to READ about Eve than to PLAY Eve. It has a bewildering array of things to do, but they are all really a series of pop up menu boxes to do any of them. That's why the drive for WiS. Even though I don't need WiS and never use it when docked- it's not why I got into Eve to begin with- I can still totally get why CCP went that way. You aren't a person, you are a ship- or series of them- and gameplay is menu boxes--- even if it turns out to be a good game model (again, it works for me) it's just 'not what you expect' in a game, especially if WoW is your paradigm, and that alone probably loses people by the time their trial is up.
Lastly, it can be hard to remember being new and trying to 'get sold' on this game that is frankly more famous for horror stories about scamming newbies being perfectly legal in the game, than for epic gameplay. Eve's reputation is horrible outside of the game base already- but add that vicious learning curve to the rather unexpected model of clicking menu boxes to play a game.....it's just not kids or renny festival leftovers that just 'don't get' Eve, it's certainly an acquired taste. CCP, imo, makes sense with WiS even if it's not my thing. |
Krios Ahzek
35
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Posted - 2011.11.09 05:58:00 -
[153] - Quote
Alaric Faelen wrote: Lastly, it can be hard to remember being new and trying to 'get sold' on this game that is frankly more famous for horror stories about scamming newbies being perfectly legal in the game, than for epic gameplay.
Excuse me. You seem to be saying that scamming people for billions of ISK does not constitute epic gameplay.
That's when your argument fell short. I grew up on Diablo 2 and to a lesser extent Ultima Online. UO was very good before the PVE/PVP shard split. Diablo 2 had a large trust abuse/scam component to it that could make you quite a bit of money. It was awesome. The hero you're stuck with anyways. |
Taiwanistan
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
9
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Posted - 2011.11.09 06:18:00 -
[154] - Quote
do you realize only wow can be wow? look at all the garbage korean mmos also glaring differences, multiple servers, and halfass market crippled by bind on pickup/use stupid incarna lovin pedestrians |
Krios Ahzek
36
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Posted - 2011.11.09 06:22:00 -
[155] - Quote
Really, it's quite simple.
MMO creation flowchart: SO YOU WANT TO MAKE A MMO!
1. Are you Sony Online Entertainment? NO: Advance to question 2. YES: Please cease existing instantly.
2. Are you Blizzard? YES: Make WOW, a WOW expansion, or WOW 2 NO: Make something different from WOW or you'll die a painful bankrupt death even if you have an awesome IP to work with (ex: Warhammer, LOTR, Conan)
The hero you're stuck with anyways. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
1026
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Posted - 2011.11.09 06:26:00 -
[156] - Quote
Krios Ahzek wrote:Alaric Faelen wrote: Lastly, it can be hard to remember being new and trying to 'get sold' on this game that is frankly more famous for horror stories about scamming newbies being perfectly legal in the game, than for epic gameplay.
Excuse me. You seem to be saying that scamming people for billions of ISK does not constitute epic gameplay. That's when your argument fell short.
I was first interested in EVE when I heard about the EVE Bank scam in 2006. I've never had the inclination (let alone the brains) to pull off such a stunt, but boy was I fascinated to hear about a game where it was possible.
Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
1027
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Posted - 2011.11.09 06:29:00 -
[157] - Quote
K Suri wrote: causation is the question. I'm trying to point out that more recent sub slowdown has NO relation to "safe space" because NOTHING has happened for a very long time to cause it.
Well then doesn't that render the premise of your OP moot?
Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Krios Ahzek
36
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Posted - 2011.11.09 06:34:00 -
[158] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:K Suri wrote: causation is the question. I'm trying to point out that more recent sub slowdown has NO relation to "safe space" because NOTHING has happened for a very long time to cause it.
Well then doesn't that render the premise of your OP moot?
K Suri is an obvious troll alt anyways, she even admitted it in another thread. Villain. Hero. Warrior. Lover. |
Dalmont Delantee
Shiloh Technologies STR8NGE BREW
10
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Posted - 2011.11.09 07:02:00 -
[159] - Quote
K Suri wrote:Or should it be "Wow. This is Eve"?
A common retort used by the highly intellectual types on Eve-O is "go play Wow" or "Wow is that way". This is usually in response to the cry to make some things safer in Eve.
Now I have mixed views as to the validity of "safeness" and I fully understand the ethos that is Eve. But you know, if I were a commercial entity trying to raise the subscriber base, I'd be seriously looking at games that make the serious coin.
Wow has more than 11 million subscribers, roughly 20 times more than Eve. I've never played the game but if I take the comments of "go play Wow" to mean a game that is "safe" or has "safe areas" then how come it's so big? One of the most successful MMO's ever to hit the big screen. I'm fully aware that it's not single shard and segmented economics would be a consequence, but this does not seem to hurt the game overall.
Would CCP be doing good for business by making areas - such as high-sec - a safer place to nurture and establish new players and corporations?
Of course, there are many arguments both for and against and as an avid reader of the many posts on the topics, I can only see the protection of an idealogy as the common response for the vast majority of "change nothing" posters.
Is this the right approach? Is this being childishly selfish?
Does Eve need to evolve, in some areas, to be more effective for CCP economically? Is this the plan?
Food for thought.
Completely safe areas will destroy EVE, EVE is based on conflict in all its forms.
its building pretty things is just one part of EVE, blowing them up is the second :P If high sec was safe then there would be less destruction and therefore less demand therefore less reason to make things....
Please think before you speak :) |
The Antiquarian
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
95
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Posted - 2011.11.09 08:53:00 -
[160] - Quote
K Suri wrote:Or should it be "Wow. This is Eve"?
A common retort used by the highly intellectual types on Eve-O is "go play Wow" or "Wow is that way". This is usually in response to the cry to make some things safer in Eve.
Now I have mixed views as to the validity of "safeness" and I fully understand the ethos that is Eve. But you know, if I were a commercial entity trying to raise the subscriber base, I'd be seriously looking at games that make the serious coin.
Wow has more than 11 million subscribers, roughly 20 times more than Eve. I've never played the game but if I take the comments of "go play Wow" to mean a game that is "safe" or has "safe areas" then how come it's so big? One of the most successful MMO's ever to hit the big screen. I'm fully aware that it's not single shard and segmented economics would be a consequence, but this does not seem to hurt the game overall.
Would CCP be doing good for business by making areas - such as high-sec - a safer place to nurture and establish new players and corporations?
Of course, there are many arguments both for and against and as an avid reader of the many posts on the topics, I can only see the protection of an idealogy as the common response for the vast majority of "change nothing" posters.
Is this the right approach? Is this being childishly selfish?
Does Eve need to evolve, in some areas, to be more effective for CCP economically? Is this the plan?
Food for thought.
Not that I have anything against World of Warcraft, but let me give a sample of SAT analogy question to help you understand the subtle differences between WoW and EVE:
World of Warcrft : EVE Online
(A) Hyundai Avante : Mercedes SL 65 AMG (B) Seven-Eleven : Bergdorf Goodman (C) Jack in the Box : El Bulli (D) Gap for Kids : Giorgio Armani Collezioni (E) Christmas Stories for Kids : Journals of Soren Kierkegaard
If the analogy stil doesn't convince you of the differences.... I don't know what else can.
Oh by the way, I do play WoW as well, just like how I enjoy eating McDonald's once in a while.
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Zyrbalax III
Goldcrest Enterprises
20
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Posted - 2011.11.09 10:30:00 -
[161] - Quote
Have to say this discussion seems to just go round in circles. A lot of people want EVE to stay dark and dangerous where everything's always at risk. Some folks questioning whether safer might bring more cash to CCP which might be good for the game.
Why can't we have both?
Presenting: EVE - parallel universes.
CCP create a duplicate EVE where non-consensual PVP is just not possible. I can't imagine that would be hard to do. And then allow the playerbase to choose. Want to be completely safe in your own EVE universe? EVE B ---> . Do you like the dark and gritty, constant risk of loss? Stay put in EVE A.
Personally I don't do much PVP (I defend myself when attacked but don't (yet) go looking for fights), but I would stay put. I like the added danger.
But I understand it's a turnoff to a lot of people, and I have no problem with them having a "safer" sandbox to play EVE in. And if that safer sandbox brings in tons of new players, well that's good for both sandboxes as it gives CCP more cash to develop the game for both sandboxes.
Having distinct sandboxes also means the safe carebear isk faucet in EVE B wouldn't undermine the EVE A economy.
If EVE is going to survive and flourish, CCP need cash. That means more paying customers. If you don't want CCP to break your sandbox to attract those customers, then CCP need to build a new sandbox. This might be a quick way to do it. |
Onictus
Legendary Knights Vorpal's Edge
22
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Posted - 2011.11.09 11:26:00 -
[162] - Quote
Personally I quit wow for EvE.....because I got sick of the every-kid-gets a trophy in my MMO.
...for that matter I will never give Blizzard another penny as long as that moron Greg Street is there.
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Stella Dust
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2011.11.09 11:37:00 -
[163] - Quote
WoW imo was successful because it came out at the right time.
They kept the graphics less resource hungry by adopting the cartoon style graphics which meant more people could actually play the game.
Back when WoW came out the games always had to make a trade-off between content and graphics, WoW went for acceptable graphics (cartoon, as realish but poor quality would not have worked) and more content.
Some other games went for more realistic graphics and less content.
Trouble with the making graphics more lifelike back then meant that there was far less people that could actually play the games to a satifsactory standard, people just did not have the equipment to play them well at home.
So WoW did well out of it.
Main reason WoW still keeps people is because of the amount of content and the amount of players they have playing it. Plus it's still not too resource hungry. |
L Salander
All Web Investigations
10
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Posted - 2011.11.09 12:22:00 -
[164] - Quote
Every musician should strive to be a lady gaga clone (who is a madonna clone anyway), every game should strive to be a CS/Wow clone, and so on and so on. It makes the most sense, economically!
Is that what this thread is saying?
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WisdomLikeSilence
The Cursed Navy Important Internet Spaceship League
67
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Posted - 2011.11.09 13:08:00 -
[165] - Quote
Corina Jarr wrote:Note: I am replying to the OP, and have not read anything else in the thread.
WoW is a fantasy game, based upon a series that has been around for a long time and had a large fanbase before WoW came to exist.
EVE is a scifi game (low profitability in general), and did not have a previous product to draw fans from.
DIdnt you know that Fantasy and Sci-fi are the same thing? According to any bookshop Ive been into in the last 10 years anyhow.
In fact my local bookshop has a section that reads "Science Fiction" and has NOTHING but books about dragons and elves.
I know its "fiction" but when did the lord of the rings get associated with "Science"?
AND ANOTHER THING.
1984, Brave New World and Neuromancer were all in the general fiction section. Apparently if your science fiction book gets good critical reviews, its no longer "sci-fi".
In short: Bastards.
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March rabbit
Ganse Shadow of xXDEATHXx
34
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Posted - 2011.11.09 13:12:00 -
[166] - Quote
K Suri wrote:Or should it be "Wow. This is Eve"? .... Food for thought. try this: "This WoW is Eve" "This is WoW Eve"
hope it helps |
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
218
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Posted - 2011.11.09 13:17:00 -
[167] - Quote
Posting in a not-so-stealth WiS whine thread.
I got tired of reading OP's emo-rants that current players don't want change.
I want change. I want walking in stations to be cool. I want EVE to be the coolest sci-fi simulator that encompasses everything it can, just like CCP does.
What I (and many older players) don't want is for the original game to stagnate and die while CCP slowly develops a prototype barbie doll "feature" with unclear goals.
To put it in terms of your restaurant and '93 chablis analogy...
CCP realized their kitchen is getting old, so they upgraded most of the appliances that customers rarely see. In the process, they broke a few heatlamps and chipped a few dishes. Food is going out faster, but cold now occasionally, on bad china too, diminishing the experience a bit. Not to be deterred, CCP announced development of a new chain of restaurants serving fast food (with sparkles!) and as a test market, put some gourmet burgers on the menu here. And then they charged $20 for pickles and catchup.
Of course customers got pissy and left, and of course CCP is going back to their base to fix what brought us all here in the first place.
They'll get back to gourmet hamburgers when they can present it as a viable option too I'm sure. This is my signature.-á There are many others like it, but this one is mine. |
Galadriel Vasquez
Bright Paradigm
7
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Posted - 2011.11.09 13:27:00 -
[168] - Quote
World of Warcraft was good 5 years ago. Its in terminal decline. Lets copy that?
Nah. |
Ficus Plant
The Plant Initiative
4
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Posted - 2011.11.09 14:35:00 -
[169] - Quote
Malcanis wrote: Everything that's interesting, exciting and worthwhile about EVE comes from the freedom it gives you to interact with other players. The ongoing issue is that EVE is one of the very few games available these days which actually let you genuinely lose, and the culture shock of encountering a game that doesn't treat you as a special snowflake, that doesn't gaurantee you hero status, that doesn't protect you from your bad decisions, that doesn't stop you permanently losing money, assets, space, even skillpoints, if you screw up badly enough is so severe to many people encountering it for the first time that they assume that it's a mistake, a design flaw, a problem to be solved.
I think this totally sums up why so many people do not stay with EVE. There are definitely way too many 'special snowflakes' out there in the bigger MMO (and real) world that will just never get the fact that they should be allowed to lose and lose badly. If you can't lose where the hell is the challenge?
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Causalitii Eullon
C.A.S. Assisted Living
1
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Posted - 2011.11.09 14:36:00 -
[170] - Quote
Gealla wrote:Aidan Brooder wrote:Played WOW and amongst the many MMOs I have played, it must have been the most boring. You virtually complete 10 Missions or more per hour, the graphics suck, player interaction is at zero.
Also, "casual PVP" in EVE? Arenas? No, thanks. We have a whole hangar full of training ships for PVP training, what would we need arenas for?
You'd just take away from the nice people that actually organize Fight Clubs in EVE as a player event. (And earn their share by doing so...)
I hazard that you never made end game content in Wow? Organising raids, leading them, organising guilds to be able to raid and the player interaction involved in that (not to mention politics) is just as intensive as in Eve, although at a smaller scale (10's to 100's not 1000's) There's not that much difference, the same type of player who will run an alliance or FC a fleet in Eve, will most likely run a successful guild or RL succesful raids in WoW. It's the players who aren't interested in these areas that differ the most, in WoW they do areana's and PVP and trash talk in trade. In Eve they suicide gank and trash talk in local....... oh wait not that different
You sir need to go back to your precious WoW
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Sable Moran
Moran Light Industries
5
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Posted - 2011.11.09 14:38:00 -
[171] - Quote
K Suri wrote:I also note that Wow isn't on the chart either so where your comparison comes from eludes me.
Let me give you a hand: http://mmodata.net/
Sable's Ammo Shop at Alentene V - Moon 4 - Duvolle Laboratories Factory. Hybrid charges, Projectile ammo, Missiles, Drones, Ships, Need'em? We have'em, at affordable prices. Pop in at our Ammo Shop in sunny Alentene. |
Ana Vyr
104
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Posted - 2011.11.09 14:44:00 -
[172] - Quote
I play both games.
I'm part of a raiding guild in WoW, and as far as that gameplay model goes, WoW is really excellent. PvP in WoW is fun and fast paced and meaningless.
EvE is a completely different animal. Much more a thinking man's game. Much more complex than WoW could ever hope to be, and there are very harsh consequences for failure in any endeavour.
Comparing the two games is fruitless because they represent entirely different gameplay styles. Both are excellent games. |
Fille Balle
Ballbreakers R us
32
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Posted - 2011.11.09 15:19:00 -
[173] - Quote
Krios Ahzek wrote:You know what?
No MMO has tried to beat WOW at its own game and won.
/Thread, set, match
Um, sorry? Adding a safe zone would somehow make eve a fantasy game, add unicorns, elves and special mounts to the game?
I'm sorry, I don't understand your logic. Could you please explain how that is supposed to happen?
Oh, and besides, there is at least one other game which is as old as eve that is in fact more succefull than eve, and that game does not only have safe areas, in fact there is only one place that isn't safe from pvp. In addition to this, there are a number of mini games in which the players can engage in pvp, some risk free, others with stakes and the option to loose your stuff etc.
That game is called Runescape. It's a fantasy mmorpg, but it's certainly not wow. It has safe zones, but other than that, I can't really see many similarities to RS and wow.
I guess what I'm trying to say, is that I don't think any of the players that are suggesting that we make highsec safer is proposing to turn eve in to wow. In fact, the only players that I've heard even mentioning wow is the so called hard core elite of eve. Considering their obsession with wow, I think they ought to go and play it. Have you noticed how some ships are actually blue? Weird isn't it? |
Krixtal Icefluxor
Bison - Placid PI Thundering Herd
38
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Posted - 2011.11.09 15:27:00 -
[174] - Quote
I have never played WOW or any other MMORPG at ALL. Only EVE I have taken a gander at their demo's and youtube footage,, and Leeroy Jenkins and everything. But it all seems a big gigantic YAWN compared to EVE.
I love EVE's challenge and practically reverse vertical 'undrhaning' Learning Curve, the cahllnge of resourcing to figure it al out, whether one does only Pew-Pew, or dedicates oneself to Industrialism and Spreadsheets-In-Space.
It is unique and must remain so......
BUT......there is indeed the Coin. And the need for establishing new players a bit outside of "The Freshman Year Torture Hijinks" of American Universities atmosphere permeating High Sec.
I think the best option is to go ahead and make 1.0 and .9 Space 'SAFE'. No player ships can be targeted and Smartbombs fail to operate.
That's it, plain and silple. Absolutely NO other changes to the game.
Their rewards come when they brave out of the playpen.
OMG He Spent His Free-áAURUM ! God is simply-áthe very extraordinary power of the Universe to organize Itself as percieved.
-á- Lee Smolin "Three Roads to Quantum Gravity" |
1nsan1ty
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
0
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Posted - 2011.11.09 15:41:00 -
[175] - Quote
In my opinion.. everything in Eve takes ages to do, which instantly makes it a non-casual game :D |
1nsan1ty
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
0
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Posted - 2011.11.09 15:50:00 -
[176] - Quote
And if you guys think that making Eve 'safe' is going to increase public interest for the game, bring more subscribers or whatever, you are oblivious.
Making Eve better is going to achieve those goals, not safer.. and in order to make Eve better, there are only few things to be done:
- drastic changes to the game-play, especially PVE
- race balancing
- overhaul of some ship classes, ship balancing
- UI overhaul, make the god damn thing appealing and useful, its hideous in its current state
Thats from top of my head :) |
Krios Ahzek
40
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Posted - 2011.11.09 16:06:00 -
[177] - Quote
Zyrbalax III wrote:Have to say this discussion seems to just go round in circles. A lot of people want EVE to stay dark and dangerous where everything's always at risk. Some folks questioning whether safer might bring more cash to CCP which might be good for the game.
Why can't we have both?
Presenting: EVE - parallel universes.
CCP create a duplicate EVE where non-consensual PVP is just not possible. I can't imagine that would be hard to do. And then allow the playerbase to choose. Want to be completely safe in your own EVE universe? EVE B ---> . Do you like the dark and gritty, constant risk of loss? Stay put in EVE A.
Personally I don't do much PVP (I defend myself when attacked but don't (yet) go looking for fights), but I would stay put. I like the added danger.
But I understand it's a turnoff to a lot of people, and I have no problem with them having a "safer" sandbox to play EVE in. And if that safer sandbox brings in tons of new players, well that's good for both sandboxes as it gives CCP more cash to develop the game for both sandboxes.
Having distinct sandboxes also means the safe carebear isk faucet in EVE B wouldn't undermine the EVE A economy.
If EVE is going to survive and flourish, CCP need cash. That means more paying customers. If you don't want CCP to break your sandbox to attract those customers, then CCP need to build a new sandbox. This might be a quick way to do it.
Trammel/Felucia split. Google it. It kills games.
Villain. Hero. Warrior. Lover. |
MeestaPenni
Mercantile and Stuff
41
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Posted - 2011.11.09 16:10:00 -
[178] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote: I think the best option is to go ahead and make 1.0 and .9 Space 'SAFE'. No player ships can be targeted and Smartbombs fail to operate.
And the gates out of those systems would be swarmed with sensor glittering gank ships.....just waiting.
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Zendoren
Aktaeon Industries The Black Armada
35
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Posted - 2011.11.09 16:33:00 -
[179] - Quote
2 schools of thought here
1) Make EvE safer and Maybe Raise subs enough to where their ROI is worth the expansions they release while trying to keep player retention high.
2) Make EvE more destructible and allow players to shoot each other in the face which results in them losing their assets. This in turn will result them buying more plex and/or buying more subscription time to recoup said loss.
If you were CCP which would you pick!
Personally, I no issue with the 2nd choice so long as "The investment of money in EVE should not give you an unfair advantage over the investment of time" |
Trainwreck McGee
Ghost Ship Inc.
111
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Posted - 2011.11.09 16:43:00 -
[180] - Quote
Rofl. Go look at Alganon if you want to see why an indie developer copying WoW is a bad thing.
Then go over to WoW and ask 100 people "do you play WoW over EVE online because its safer?"
The majority of people will say "WTF is EVE stop taking to me u noob cuz i ned to get fiftee wolv pelts beefor mi bedtim"
seriously GTFO
CCP Trainwreck - Weekend Custodial Engineer / CCP Necrogoats foot stool |
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