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My take on a Tier 3 Min BS

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Eximius Josari	Posted - 2006.03.30 19:47:00 - [1] Hi to all three of you who will actually read this Thor 8 hi slots 6 mids 6 lows 5 turrets, 5 launchers 5% Large Projectile Damage per level 5% Launcher RoF per level 6000 shield 5500 armor 5500 hull 140 m/s max velocity 100 m3 dronebay 650 m3 cargo Has the split personality of the Typhoon, battlefield presence of the Tempest, and can armor or shield tank with no problem. No crazy off the wall thing like a Matari Raven, or a BS sized Stabber (as totally awesome as they would be...the Machariel shouldnt be lost in the dust of a tech 1 baseline design.) Some won't like it not being as much of a gunship as the Tempest is...but it lets you go both ways. Missile boat or gunship, while not doing the missile boat as well as the Raven, nor the gunship as well as the Tempest.
Montero	Posted - 2006.03.30 19:48:00 - [2] OH LOOK A SLOW TYPHOON Keep profanity & moderation discussion out of your sig, please. --Jorauk no
Eximius Josari	Posted - 2006.03.30 19:52:00 - [3] Lol...I love the Typhoon, but those are pretty much the changes I'd give it lol...cept I wouldnt have dropped the speed or drones down.
Keta Min	Posted - 2006.03.30 19:57:00 - [4] no. it is: 8/6/6, 8 turrets, some launchers, 10% rof per lvl. anything else: go die.
Eximius Josari	Posted - 2006.03.30 20:01:00 - [5] That is insane...
KilROCK	Posted - 2006.03.30 20:05:00 - [6] Originally by: Keta Min no. it is: 8/6/6, 8 turrets, some launchers, 10% rof per lvl. anything else: go die. qtf Originally by: KilROCK My sig are under or 24kb, Each of them. SO PAWS OFF, that's the 3rd time, seriously annoyed now.
Nifel	Posted - 2006.03.30 20:15:00 - [7] Die. "We wield swords for the sound of laughter that used to be there long ago." RKK Ranking: (MIN13) Jata
Eximius Josari	Posted - 2006.03.30 20:17:00 - [8] I dont want a pure gunship lol...I'd be amarr if I wanted that.
Pesadel0	Posted - 2006.03.30 20:26:00 - [9] Originally by: Eximius Josari I dont want a pure gunship lol...I'd be amarr if I wanted that. Then go amarr , we are projectilles get used to it.
Aliksr	Posted - 2006.03.30 20:47:00 - [10] Originally by: Keta Min no. it is: 8/6/6, 8 turrets, some launchers, 10% rof per lvl. anything else: go die. The database dump where everyone got those stats from hasn't been updated since Mid-December so who knows if the Tier-3 ships will look or even still look anything like those prototypes. And also if you give the Tier-3 8 turret hardpoints then why would anyone fly a tempest? Because they havent trained Battleship III yet?

M00dy	Posted - 2006.03.30 20:50:00 - [11] 5% Speed per lvl -5% RoF
Eximius Josari	Posted - 2006.03.30 20:50:00 - [12] Originally by: Pesadel0 Originally by: Eximius Josari I dont want a pure gunship lol...I'd be amarr if I wanted that. Then go amarr , we are projectilles get used to it. Lol...we are not 'projectiles' They are our main weapon...sure.
Eximius Josari	Posted - 2006.03.30 20:52:00 - [13] Originally by: Aliksr Originally by: Keta Min no. it is: 8/6/6, 8 turrets, some launchers, 10% rof per lvl. anything else: go die. The database dump where everyone got those stats from hasn't been updated since Mid-December so who knows if the Tier-3 ships will look or even still look anything like those prototypes. And also if you give the Tier-3 8 turret hardpoints then why would anyone fly a tempest? Because they havent trained Battleship III yet? Exactly, I don't want to make the current BSes obsolete. Tempest should be 'the' gunship.
Gierling	Posted - 2006.03.30 20:53:00 - [14] I'm thinking that we have a 50% chance of getting interesting and cool ships like say a Gellente Tier 33 with 8 turrets an MWD and a faloff bonus... Or just broken garbage like a minmater tier 3 with 8 turrets (And the grid to fit 1400II's) and a 10% rof bonus. PRoposal to fix blobbing and make Charisma useful.
Keta Min	Posted - 2006.03.30 21:08:00 - [15] no we don't need a minmatar raven
Eximius Josari	Posted - 2006.03.30 21:15:00 - [16] Nobody was suggesting one.
Tiuwaz	Posted - 2006.03.30 21:31:00 - [17] Edited by: Tiuwaz on 30/03/2006 21:31:59 plz die and delete your post before Tuxford gets any ideas this is just typhoon mk2, ** it may be the typhoon itself (- the slot layout) once it gets some love edited: on second thought even the typhoon would be better than this flying junkyard you propose Originally by:** Oveur ****! Lets nerf it! To the nerfmobile!
Eximius Josari	Posted - 2006.03.30 21:34:00 - [18] How is that? lol
Keta Min	Posted - 2006.03.30 21:36:00 - [19] split slot layout = not good.
HippoKing	Posted - 2006.03.30 21:39:00 - [20] Originally by: Keta Min no. it is: 8/6/6, 8 turrets, some launchers, 10% rof per lvl. anything else: go die. no, against anything else i might not die. against that, i would sigs of the 23/24/25 hijack just as well -eris yarrrr, i shall retake my sig -HippoKing Not a chance, our 1337 sig haXx0r sk1llz are too powerful! - Wrangler Ho-Ho-Hooooooo, Merry Saturday!11 - Immy Yo ho ho and a bottle of BReeEEEEeee.... - Jacques ARRRRRRchambault Stop spamming with "QFT" >:\|. - Teblin

Eximius Josari	Posted - 2006.03.30 21:42:00 - [21] Originally by: Keta Min split slot layout = not good. Its only not good if your skills suck. We have the most skill intensive ships in the game...and that is a good thing.
Keta Min	Posted - 2006.03.30 21:44:00 - [22] Originally by: Eximius Josari Originally by: Keta Min split slot layout = not good. Its only not good if your skills suck. We have the most skill intensive ships in the game...and that is a good thing. clue
Eximius Josari	Posted - 2006.03.30 21:45:00 - [23] Originally by: Keta Min Originally by: Eximius Josari Originally by: Keta Min split slot layout = not good. Its only not good if your skills suck. We have the most skill intensive ships in the game...and that is a good thing. clue I've been flying Min ships over 2 years...I like guns and I like missiles. I do more dmg than the 'gunslingers'.
HippoKing	Posted - 2006.03.30 21:46:00 - [24] Originally by: Eximius Josari Originally by: Keta Min split slot layout = not good. Its only not good if your skills suck. or if you want your damage mods to work for ALL your weapons, rather than having to fit 2 to get the bonus everyone else gets from one it also means that each weapon only has a single bonus on it (omg not good) sigs of the 23/24/25 hijack just as well -eris yarrrr, i shall retake my sig -HippoKing Not a chance, our 1337 sig haXx0r sk1llz are too powerful! - Wrangler Ho-Ho-Hooooooo, Merry Saturday!11 - Immy Yo ho ho and a bottle of BReeEEEEeee.... - Jacques ARRRRRRchambault Stop spamming with "QFT" >:\|. - Teblin
Keta Min	Posted - 2006.03.30 21:50:00 - [25] Originally by: HippoKing Originally by: Eximius Josari Originally by: Keta Min split slot layout = not good. Its only not good if your skills suck. or if you want your damage mods to work for ALL your weapons, rather than having to fit 2 to get the bonus everyone else gets from one it also means that each weapon only has a single bonus on it (omg not good) win
Eximius Josari	Posted - 2006.03.30 21:53:00 - [26] Originally by: HippoKing Originally by: Eximius Josari Originally by: Keta Min split slot layout = not good. Its only not good if your skills suck. or if you want your damage mods to work for ALL your weapons, rather than having to fit 2 to get the bonus everyone else gets from one it also means that each weapon only has a single bonus on it (omg not good) Our bonuses are odd. My solution to that is change all Projectile Bonuses to include Launchers. So the Tempest would have: 5% Projectile and Ballistic Dmg as well as 5% Projectile and Launcher RoF. As for the Typhoon, it could be along this line: 5% Rof Proj and Launchers, 10% Porj Optimal and 10% Ballistic Velocity So every weapon on a min ship would get a bonus as long as it is a projectile gun or a missile launcher. As for the dmg mods...2 of each fits just fine. ~From the maker of ActiveX and Sobeseki Pawi: The Third and Final Main :o
HippoKing	Posted - 2006.03.30 21:57:00 - [27] Originally by: Eximius Josari As for the dmg mods...2 of each fits just fine. but everyone else fits 4 of one type and gets a bigger bonus (about 20% more DPS IIRC) sigs of the 23/24/25 hijack just as well -eris yarrrr, i shall retake my sig -HippoKing Not a chance, our 1337 sig haXx0r sk1llz are too powerful! - Wrangler Ho-Ho-Hooooooo, Merry Saturday!11 - Immy Yo ho ho and a bottle of BReeEEEEeee.... - Jacques ARRRRRRchambault Stop spamming with "QFT" >:\|. - Teblin
Eximius Josari	Posted - 2006.03.30 22:01:00 - [28] Edited by: Eximius Josari on 30/03/2006 22:01:47 Originally by: HippoKing Originally by: Eximius Josari As for the dmg mods...2 of each fits just fine. but everyone else fits 4 of one type and gets a bigger bonus (about 20% more DPS IIRC) Actually...the stacking penalty affects them more. Each of my dmg mod sets will be more effective than their 3rd and 4th dmg mods, so I get the greater benefit. ~From the maker of ActiveX and Sobeseki Pawi: The Third and Final Main :o
HippoKing	Posted - 2006.03.30 22:11:00 - [29] Originally by: Eximius Josari Originally by: HippoKing Originally by: Eximius Josari As for the dmg mods...2 of each fits just fine. but everyone else fits 4 of one type and gets a bigger bonus (about 20% more DPS IIRC) Actually...the stacking penalty affects them more. Each of my dmg mod sets will be more effective than their 3rd and 4th dmg mods, so I get the greater benefit. i really, honestly don't know what to say to that sigs of the 23/24/25 hijack just as well -eris yarrrr, i shall retake my sig -HippoKing Not a chance, our 1337 sig haXx0r sk1llz are too powerful! - Wrangler Ho-Ho-Hooooooo, Merry Saturday!11 - Immy Yo ho ho and a bottle of BReeEEEEeee.... - Jacques ARRRRRRchambault Stop spamming with "QFT" >:\|. - Teblin
Keta Min	Posted - 2006.03.30 22:12:00 - [30] Originally by: Eximius Josari Edited by: Eximius Josari on 30/03/2006 22:01:47 Originally by: HippoKing Originally by: Eximius Josari As for the dmg mods...2 of each fits just fine. but everyone else fits 4 of one type and gets a bigger bonus (about 20% more DPS IIRC) Actually...the stacking penalty affects them more. Each of my dmg mod sets will be more effective than their 3rd and 4th dmg mods, so I get the greater benefit. funny stuff

Uglious	Posted - 2006.03.30 22:17:00 - [31] Quote: i really, honestly don't know what to say to that How about--why not save yourself two low slots and not fit a third and fourth in the first place? As a die-hard vagabond and Sleipnir pilot (i.e. I said screw that to training missles), I hope for the 8 turret 1400mm devestator with a few officer gyro's and officer tracking enhancers. :)
bumcheekcity	Posted - 2006.03.30 22:18:00 - [32] Originally by: Eximius Josari Edited by: Eximius Josari on 30/03/2006 22:01:47 Originally by: HippoKing Originally by: Eximius Josari As for the dmg mods...2 of each fits just fine. but everyone else fits 4 of one type and gets a bigger bonus (about 20% more DPS IIRC) Actually...the stacking penalty affects them more. Each of my dmg mod sets will be more effective than their 3rd and 4th dmg mods, so I get the greater benefit. Welcome to the school of being a complete idiot. So, you'd prefer a 14%-ish bonus to your 4 missiles, and a 14%ish bonus to your 4 projectiles (ior whatever), than a 20%-ish bonus to 8 projectiles? YOu must get through a lot of ships. -- bumcheekcity Interseted in skills? http://geeksonline.co.uk/eve/includedfiles/xmlparse.php
Naughty Boy	Posted - 2006.03.30 22:19:00 - [33] Fun stuff indeed :) Been there done that... (see here). I'm not that interested in a wannabe typhoon... projectiles all the way. Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy.
Zysco	Posted - 2006.03.30 22:21:00 - [34] Edited by: Zysco on 30/03/2006 22:21:39 Originally by: HippoKing Originally by: Eximius Josari Originally by: HippoKing Originally by: Eximius Josari As for the dmg mods...2 of each fits just fine. but everyone else fits 4 of one type and gets a bigger bonus (about 20% more DPS IIRC) Actually...the stacking penalty affects them more. Each of my dmg mod sets will be more effective than their 3rd and 4th dmg mods, so I get the greater benefit. i really, honestly don't know what to say to that Hes not entirely wrong really. Really only the apoc fits weapons in all 8 highslots. Lets say one guy is flying a tempest with 6 autos 2 nos and has 2 damage mods. Those 2 mods are effecting only 6 highs. Meanwhile a phoon fits a bcu II and a gyro II, less effect but its effecting 8 highs so the damage mods actually have more of a bonus, if that makes sense. Also I'm really high if it doesnt so. Phoon post change will do the most dps of anything cept maybe a blasterdom. You just need max drone, proj, and missile skills to get it all out of it. callon > I don't like traveling much, i think its cause my father used to beat me with a globe. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=300438New vid: "we're back
HippoKing	Posted - 2006.03.30 22:25:00 - [35] Originally by: Zysco Hes not entirely wrong really. Really only the apoc fits weapons in all 8 highslots. Lets say one guy is flying a tempest with 6 autos 2 nos and has 2 damage mods. Those 2 mods are effecting only 6 highs. Meanwhile a phoon fits a bcu II and a gyro II, less effect but its effecting 8 highs so the damage mods actually have more of a bonus, if that makes sense. Also I'm really high if it doesnt so. what you say does make sense. it shows that fitting different types of damage mods on a ship with split bonuses (bonii?) and hardpoints is more effective than fitting a single type. however, what our friend here is trying to say is that it is more effective than fitting a single damage mod type on a single weapon type ship, which is hugely wrong. sigs of the 23/24/25 hijack just as well -eris yarrrr, i shall retake my sig -HippoKing Not a chance, our 1337 sig haXx0r sk1llz are too powerful! - Wrangler Ho-Ho-Hooooooo, Merry Saturday!11 - Immy Yo ho ho and a bottle of BReeEEEEeee.... - Jacques ARRRRRRchambault Stop spamming with "QFT" >:\|. - Teblin
Eximius Josari	Posted - 2006.03.30 22:44:00 - [36] Whether I'm right or wrong, the following comes straight from QuickFit. All skills maxed. Megathron with 7x 425mm II = 261.022 DPS Megathron with 7x 425mm II and 4x MFS II = 457.224 57% increase Armageddon with 7x Tach II = 286.471 Armageddon with 7x Tach II and 4x HS II = 501.797 57% increase Raven with 6x Cruise II = 74.439 Raven with 6x Cruise II and 4x BCS II = 146.91 51% increase Typhoon with 4x 1400 II/4x Cruise II = 157.629 Typhoon with 4x 1400 II/4x Cruise II and 2x BCS II/2x GS II = 232.383 68% increase Now imagine that Typhoon with the soon to come launcher RoF bonus. ~From the maker of ActiveX and Sobeseki Pawi: The Third and Final Main :o
Eximius Josari	Posted - 2006.03.30 22:47:00 - [37] Originally by: HippoKing Originally by: Zysco Hes not entirely wrong really. Really only the apoc fits weapons in all 8 highslots. Lets say one guy is flying a tempest with 6 autos 2 nos and has 2 damage mods. Those 2 mods are effecting only 6 highs. Meanwhile a phoon fits a bcu II and a gyro II, less effect but its effecting 8 highs so the damage mods actually have more of a bonus, if that makes sense. Also I'm really high if it doesnt so. what you say does make sense. it shows that fitting different types of damage mods on a ship with split bonuses (bonii?) and hardpoints is more effective than fitting a single type. however, what our friend here is trying to say is that it is more effective than fitting a single damage mod type on a single weapon type ship, which is hugely wrong. How much does the stacking penalty affect module # 3? and how much does it affect module #4? all I have to deal with is #1 and #2 (twice over). I get more results for my slots. ~From the maker of ActiveX and Sobeseki Pawi: The Third and Final Main :o
Naughty Boy	Posted - 2006.03.30 22:50:00 - [38] Edited by: Naughty Boy on 30/03/2006 22:51:58 Originally by: Eximius Josari How much does the stacking penalty affect module # 3? and how much does it affect module #4? all I have to deal with is #1 and #2 (twice over). I get more results for my slots. ... but you get less from those slots to start with, regardless of stacking penalty, since each of those weapon upgrades affects less weapon hardpoints. Edit: it's going to be relatively worse for the typhoon (at least when compared to domi/arma) when CCP introduce drone damage mods. Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy.
Eximius Josari	Posted - 2006.03.30 22:52:00 - [39] Originally by: Naughty Boy Originally by: Eximius Josari How much does the stacking penalty affect module # 3? and how much does it affect module #4? all I have to deal with is #1 and #2 (twice over). I get more results for my slots. ... but you get less from those slots to start with, regardless of stacking penalty, since each of them affect less weapon hardpoints. Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy. That is immaterial Only the cumulative effect matters. The point of the 4 mods is to increase smg output period. it doesnt frickin matter how you have to do it, I get more for my 4 slots than you. ~From the maker of ActiveX and Sobeseki Pawi: The Third and Final Main :o
Eximius Josari	Posted - 2006.03.30 23:00:00 - [40] Originally by: Naughty Boy Edit: it's going to be relatively worse for the typhoon (at least when compared to domi/arma) when CCP introduce drone damage mods. Are they going to be high slot items? ~From the maker of ActiveX and Sobeseki Pawi: The Third and Final Main :o

Naughty Boy	Posted - 2006.03.30 23:01:00 - [41] Edited by: Naughty Boy on 30/03/2006 23:02:53 Originally by: Eximius Josari That is immaterial Only the cumulative effect matters. The point of the 4 mods is to increase smg output period. it doesnt frickin matter how you have to do it, I get more for my 4 slots than you. Okay. Originally by: Eximius Josari Are they going to be high slot items? Low slot, high slot "+1 drone controlled" mods are capital ships only. Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy.
Zephyrlin	Posted - 2006.03.30 23:01:00 - [42] Originally by: Eximius Josari Originally by: Naughty Boy Originally by: Eximius Josari How much does the stacking penalty affect module # 3? and how much does it affect module #4? all I have to deal with is #1 and #2 (twice over). I get more results for my slots. ... but you get less from those slots to start with, regardless of stacking penalty, since each of them affect less weapon hardpoints. Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy. That is immaterial Only the cumulative effect matters. The point of the 4 mods is to increase smg output period. it doesnt frickin matter how you have to do it, I get more for my 4 slots than you. Wow, now we've found another substance more dense than lead.... your skull. Let's look at it this way. Ship A: 8 turrets Ship B: 4 Launcher 4 Turret Both fit 4 Damage mods, Ship B fits 2 BCS and 2 Turret Mods, Ship A fits 4 Turret Mods. I don't know the exact stacking penalty, but let's make up some numbers for example purposes. Ship A gets: 8 turrets * 2 * 1.8 * 1.6 * 1.4 = 64.512 turrets worth of damage. Ship B gets: 4 Launchers * 2 * 1.8 = 14.4 Launchers worth of damage + 4 Turrets * 2 * 1.8 = 14.4 Turrets worth of damage = 28.8 total turrets worth of damage. NOTE: These numbers are NOT real figures, but simply meant to demonstrate how 4 bonuses affecting 8 turrets (even diminishing) is more effective than 2 bonuses affecting 4 and 2 more affecting another 4. ---------- And God said... "Let there be lasers, and let them go... PEW! PEW! ...."
Eximius Josari	Posted - 2006.03.30 23:12:00 - [43] Originally by: Zephyrlin Originally by: Eximius Josari Originally by: Naughty Boy Originally by: Eximius Josari How much does the stacking penalty affect module # 3? and how much does it affect module #4? all I have to deal with is #1 and #2 (twice over). I get more results for my slots. ... but you get less from those slots to start with, regardless of stacking penalty, since each of them affect less weapon hardpoints. Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy. That is immaterial Only the cumulative effect matters. The point of the 4 mods is to increase smg output period. it doesnt frickin matter how you have to do it, I get more for my 4 slots than you. Wow, now we've found another substance more dense than lead.... your skull. Let's look at it this way. Ship A: 8 turrets Ship B: 4 Launcher 4 Turret Both fit 4 Damage mods, Ship B fits 2 BCS and 2 Turret Mods, Ship A fits 4 Turret Mods. I don't know the exact stacking penalty, but let's make up some numbers for example purposes. Ship A gets: 8 turrets * 2 * 1.8 * 1.6 * 1.4 = 64.512 turrets worth of damage. Ship B gets: 4 Launchers * 2 * 1.8 = 14.4 Launchers worth of damage + 4 Turrets * 2 * 1.8 = 14.4 Turrets worth of damage = 28.8 total turrets worth of damage. NOTE: These numbers are NOT real figures, but simply meant to demonstrate how 4 bonuses affecting 8 turrets (even diminishing) is more effective than 2 bonuses affecting 4 and 2 more affecting another 4. Your first mistake was entering the discussion, your second mistake was insulting me for no reason, and your third mistake was totally FUBARing your argument. The penalty is not measured in a straight line. Try this instead: The base effect is 10. The base value is 100 Mod 1 = 100% of effect Mod 2 = 75% of effect Mod 3 = 45% of effect Mod 4 = 5$ of effect 1.10 * 1.075 * 1.045 * 1.005 = 129.75 new value (1.10 * 1.075) + (1.10 * 1.075) = 136.5 new value The only difference is my 100 is a 50 + 50. ~From the maker of ActiveX and Sobeseki Pawi: The Third and Final Main :o
Zephyrlin	Posted - 2006.03.30 23:15:00 - [44] 8 * 1.1 * 1.075 * 1.045 * 1.005 = 9.935 4 * 1.1 * 1.075 = 4.73 * 2 = 9.46 cough Math rules :) ---------- And God said... "Let there be lasers, and let them go... PEW! PEW! ...."
Eximius Josari	Posted - 2006.03.30 23:16:00 - [45] Originally by: Naughty Boy Edited by: Naughty Boy on 30/03/2006 23:02:53 Originally by: Eximius Josari That is immaterial Only the cumulative effect matters. The point of the 4 mods is to increase smg output period. it doesnt frickin matter how you have to do it, I get more for my 4 slots than you. Okay. lol okay now we are just getting into characteristics of weapons...not quite the discussion. Quote: Originally by: Eximius Josari Are they going to be high slot items? Low slot, high slot "+1 drone controlled" mods are capital ships only. Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy. I know the control ones will be cap only, and if the smg ones are low slot...that wont hurt the phoon at all, still has second largest dronebay and 7 lows. Unless you are refering to not fitting artillary for lack of powergrid. Which is also the case on the geddon as well. But my basic point still stands. Divided weapon systems are not inferior, just more skill intensive. ~From the maker of ActiveX and Sobeseki Pawi: The Third and Final Main :o
Kcel Chim	Posted - 2006.03.30 23:19:00 - [46] after reading just the first post i know why youre still in the patar tech school. The answer is no, we dont need such a ship. IF they actually planned on implementing such a ship i would suggest they just give everyone else their tier 3 and let the minnies hang with just tier 1 and tier 2 because such a tier 3 would really never be used (apart from the very special ppl who find the typhoon so welluseable and fitting) and from the rpers who kinda have to stick with it. P.S. we need more minnie nerfing. Our Skillpoint per ship ratio isnt high enough. I was thinking the other day about a tier 3 bs with boni to targetpainters and remote armor repairing. Simliar to our great carrier.
Naughty Boy	Posted - 2006.03.30 23:23:00 - [47] Edited by: Naughty Boy on 30/03/2006 23:23:15 Originally by: Eximius Josari lol okay now we are just getting into characteristics of weapons...not quite the discussion. It doesn't really matter which weapon/ship is compared, the graph shows exactly that you get more from 4 damage mods on a ship with 2 weapon types (guns + drones) than 4 damage mods on a ship with 3 weapon types. I could post more, even with analytic expressions of the whole thing, but i don't think it's needed. Originally by: Eximius Josari I know the control ones will be cap only, and if the smg ones are low slot...that wont hurt the phoon at all, still has second largest dronebay and 7 lows. Unless you are refering to not fitting artillary for lack of powergrid. Which is also the case on the geddon as well. But my basic point still stands. They won't hurt them, but in the damage scale they won't get such a potential damage increase from drone damage mods than ships like the arma and mega (even though those aren't likely to fit 2 times 3 damage mods in viable setups). Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy.
SargeMonkey	Posted - 2006.03.30 23:24:00 - [48] Don't we use Arty like railguns? Exept they draw more powergrid and CPU... I hate that. It's very odd that I can't fit 5 750's to my `Clone. Anyway, a 8 slot turret ship would be very fun, just make it so that it has a resistance to Nos and Webbers so it can use the 8 guns in either setting long or short range. Possibly moddify the fitting for Artillery so it can be used more efectivly. I think min ship's have the smallest grid of any faction... By making our long range turrets draw the most seems stupid by anymeans, its a freaking projectile weapon... Not a Laser or a Rail gun which both use a copiouse amount of power to opperate. That and they need cap to activate makes no sence, they sould at least have a 'free' fireing abillity. Also aren't we the fast ones? If so we should have fast BS's and our weapons should have HUGE traking rates. And a 10 m/s speed boost compaired to the others is... Dumb, also being the fast and close guys shouldn't the ships have an awsome Orbit rate?
Eximius Josari	Posted - 2006.03.30 23:38:00 - [49] Originally by: Zephyrlin 8 * 1.1 * 1.075 * 1.045 * 1.005 = 9.935 4 * 1.1 * 1.075 = 4.73 * 2 = 9.46 cough Math rules :) So you managed to figure out that all 8 slots being affected by 4 dmg mods is ultimately more effective than 4 + 4 being affected by 2 each. but not by much. 7 slot ships still fall behind. And if I really wanted to, I could add more dmg mods and leave every other ship in the comparative dust. My way is definately not common, but its much more versatile and arguably as effective. And I would rather see that on a tier 3. Reward those of us who really invest sp into weapons and not just gunnery OR missiles. Besides an 8 turret min BS would eliminate the need for the Tempest as the gunship. Thor at least wont make the Typhoon obsolete. Infact Thor could be made slower (130 m/s) with a smaller drone bay (75 m3) and fullfill the line just fine. The people crazy about guns can just fit one less than the pest + 1 more nos, and the people crazy about missiles can do the same in reverse. I like the idea our tier 3 could be a gunship, missileboat, or hybrid...all in one package. And for those really picky types, give it a 'type' 25% dmg bonus. ~From the maker of ActiveX and Sobeseki Pawi: The Third and Final Main :o
Eximius Josari	Posted - 2006.03.30 23:45:00 - [50] Originally by: Kcel Chim after reading just the first post i know why youre still in the patar tech school. Uh ok...how about this is my third main and I haven't been arsed enough to move him out of PTS yet? It's only been like 2 days. Quote: The answer is no, we dont need such a ship. We don't need an 8 slot gunship either. Quote: IF they actually planned on implementing such a ship i would suggest they just give everyone else their tier 3 and let the minnies hang with just tier 1 and tier 2 because such a tier 3 would really never be used (apart from the very special ppl who find the typhoon so welluseable and fitting) and from the rpers who kinda have to stick with it. If it is so important for you to only train gunnery...why are you Minmatar? Quote: P.S. we need more minnie nerfing. Our Skillpoint per ship ratio isnt high enough. I was thinking the other day about a tier 3 bs with boni to targetpainters and remote armor repairing. Simliar to our great carrier. This is the wrong thread for complaining about your race selection. And why would a BS have those bonuses? That's just silly. Our Carrier sucks...but that has zero to do with this discussion. ~From the maker of ActiveX and Sobeseki Pawi: The Third and Final Main :o

Eximius Josari	Posted - 2006.03.31 00:05:00 - [51] Ultimately I see these possible things for Min Tier3 BS: 8/6/5 7 or 8 turrets/2 launchers and has 2 projectile bonuses. 8/6/6 5 guns/5 launchers and has my bonuses. 8/7/5 6 guns/2 launchers with a gun RoF and a shield tanking bonus. 8/6/6 4 guns/6 launchers with 2 missile bonuses. Of those 4...I can see only one that doesnt mess up the BS line and doesnt screw with other race's uniqueness. ~From the maker of ActiveX and Sobeseki Pawi: The Third and Final Main :o
Zephyrlin	Posted - 2006.03.31 00:37:00 - [52] Originally by: Eximius Josari Originally by: Zephyrlin 8 * 1.1 * 1.075 * 1.045 * 1.005 = 9.935 4 * 1.1 * 1.075 = 4.73 * 2 = 9.46 cough Math rules :) So you managed to figure out that all 8 slots being affected by 4 dmg mods is ultimately more effective than 4 + 4 being affected by 2 each. but not by much. 7 slot ships still fall behind. And if I really wanted to, I could add more dmg mods and leave every other ship in the comparative dust. My way is definately not common, but its much more versatile and arguably as effective. And I would rather see that on a tier 3. Reward those of us who really invest sp into weapons and not just gunnery OR missiles. Besides an 8 turret min BS would eliminate the need for the Tempest as the gunship. Thor at least wont make the Typhoon obsolete. Infact Thor could be made slower (130 m/s) with a smaller drone bay (75 m3) and fullfill the line just fine. The people crazy about guns can just fit one less than the pest + 1 more nos, and the people crazy about missiles can do the same in reverse. I like the idea our tier 3 could be a gunship, missileboat, or hybrid...all in one package. And for those really picky types, give it a 'type' 25% dmg bonus. If you want, I can grab a crowbar so you can pull your foot out of your mouth, since you're so fond of putting it there. 7 Turret BS with 4 Damage Mods: 8.69 3(4) Turret/4(3) Launcher BS with 2/2 Damage Mods: 8.27 If you can wrap your mind around the simple math of this example, and the previous example I did the math on, you'll see that this percentage difference is actually LARGER than the straight 8 Turret/4Launcher&4Turret comparison. So, refer to what you originally told me after my first post. That applies to you. Learn to operate a calculator before making false statements. ---------- And God said... "Let there be lasers, and let them go... PEW! PEW! ...."
Kcel Chim	Posted - 2006.03.31 01:45:00 - [53] Originally by: Eximius Josari Uh ok...how about this is my third main and I haven't been arsed enough to move him out of PTS yet? It's only been like 2 days. commonly known as "alt" i guess ? Quote: We don't need an 8 slot gunship either. a 7 or 8 turret ship would be nice for a race whose base weapon is projectiles not missiles. So IF (and im not a real fan of tier 3 bs as a whole) we get a new bs, it should be "minmatar" and not caldari pansy crap. Quote: If it is so important for you to only train gunnery...why are you Minmatar? Im actually caldari, thank you. However since i play for more then 2 days (like your 3rd main) i have both gunnery skills and other skills maxed out or close to maxed out. tyvm. However that doesnt make a crap design better, especially since we cant assume everyone has 10 mil in gunnery, the average player prolly has 3-4 mil max. Quote: This is the wrong thread for complaining about your race selection. And why would a BS have those bonuses? That's just silly. Our Carrier sucks...but that has zero to do with this discussion. Im not worried about my race choice, im just tired of 2 day old alts coming to the forums telling how they think something should be fixed. When the main is either 2 month old and hasnt even reached this content yet (or enough experience to make a well thought through comparison) or when the main is some "insert random race" lover who just dumps another crap suggestion for a race he doesnt play. In short, your setup is craptastic, has bad boni, bad loadouts and prolly will suck. And before u make any further posts tell us what kind of role you had in mind for it and a "fitting" which would rock. As thats usually where the prank posts can be shed from the ones with a little thought behind.
Eximius Josari	Posted - 2006.03.31 01:45:00 - [54] Originally by: Zephyrlin Originally by: Eximius Josari Originally by: Zephyrlin 8 * 1.1 * 1.075 * 1.045 * 1.005 = 9.935 4 * 1.1 * 1.075 = 4.73 * 2 = 9.46 cough Math rules :) So you managed to figure out that all 8 slots being affected by 4 dmg mods is ultimately more effective than 4 + 4 being affected by 2 each. but not by much. 7 slot ships still fall behind. And if I really wanted to, I could add more dmg mods and leave every other ship in the comparative dust. My way is definately not common, but its much more versatile and arguably as effective. And I would rather see that on a tier 3. Reward those of us who really invest sp into weapons and not just gunnery OR missiles. Besides an 8 turret min BS would eliminate the need for the Tempest as the gunship. Thor at least wont make the Typhoon obsolete. Infact Thor could be made slower (130 m/s) with a smaller drone bay (75 m3) and fullfill the line just fine. The people crazy about guns can just fit one less than the pest + 1 more nos, and the people crazy about missiles can do the same in reverse. I like the idea our tier 3 could be a gunship, missileboat, or hybrid...all in one package. And for those really picky types, give it a 'type' 25% dmg bonus. If you want, I can grab a crowbar so you can pull your foot out of your mouth, since you're so fond of putting it there. 7 Turret BS with 4 Damage Mods: 8.69 3(4) Turret/4(3) Launcher BS with 2/2 Damage Mods: 8.27 If you can wrap your mind around the simple math of this example, and the previous example I did the math on, you'll see that this percentage difference is actually LARGER than the straight 8 Turret/4Launcher&4Turret comparison. So, refer to what you originally told me after my first post. That applies to you. Learn to operate a calculator before making false statements. That's well and good, but I don't know the actual stacking penalty. All I know is the DPS boost was much higher in quickfit. I could try with an apoc and see how close it gets. ~From the maker of ActiveX and Sobeseki Pawi: The Third and Final Main :o
Eximius Josari	Posted - 2006.03.31 01:50:00 - [55] Originally by: Eximius Josari Whether I'm right or wrong, the following comes straight from QuickFit. All skills maxed. Megathron with 7x 425mm II = 261.022 DPS Megathron with 7x 425mm II and 4x MFS II = 457.224 57% increase Armageddon with 7x Tach II = 286.471 Armageddon with 7x Tach II and 4x HS II = 501.797 57% increase Raven with 6x Cruise II = 74.439 Raven with 6x Cruise II and 4x BCS II = 146.91 51% increase Typhoon with 4x 1400 II/4x Cruise II = 157.629 Typhoon with 4x 1400 II/4x Cruise II and 2x BCS II/2x GS II = 232.383 68% increase Now imagine that Typhoon with the soon to come launcher RoF bonus. Apoc with 8x Tach IIs = 245.547 Apoc with 8x Tach IIs and 4x HS IIs = 430.133 57% Well what do you know? Quickfit disagrees with my math and yours too...(11)+(11) wins. ~From the maker of ActiveX and Sobeseki Pawi: The Third and Final Main :o
burek	Posted - 2006.03.31 01:58:00 - [56] Edited by: burek on 31/03/2006 01:59:04 Who would fly the split weapon BS = you Who would fly the 8 turret BS = all of us Ok, so surely we're all clueless... Majority of the minmatar purists have A LOT of skillpoint in gunnery. There is a reason for this. We like our guns!
Eximius Josari	Posted - 2006.03.31 02:03:00 - [57] Edited by: Eximius Josari on 31/03/2006 02:02:41 Originally by: Kcel Chim Originally by: Eximius Josari Uh ok...how about this is my third main and I haven't been arsed enough to move him out of PTS yet? It's only been like 2 days. commonly known as "alt" i guess ? Hmm...no not really. I don't have a main other than this one anymore...or won't once I sell my old one. Quote: Quote: We don't need an 8 slot gunship either. a 7 or 8 turret ship would be nice for a race whose base weapon is projectiles not missiles. So IF (and im not a real fan of tier 3 bs as a whole) we get a new bs, it should be "minmatar" and not caldari pansy crap. So the Tempest isn't Minmatar? The Typhoon isn't either? What about the Cyclone? None of them? I don't want a missile boat, what I want is a ship that uses both missiles and projectiles. Or did that obvious fact miss you? Quote: Quote: If it is so important for you to only train gunnery...why are you Minmatar? Im actually caldari, thank you. However since i play for more then 2 days (like your 3rd main) i have both gunnery skills and other skills maxed out or close to maxed out. tyvm. However that doesnt make a crap design better, especially since we cant assume everyone has 10 mil in gunnery, the average player prolly has 3-4 mil max. I happen to think Minmatar ships are great, especially with more than just gunnery skills. Amarr is the lazy race, not Minmatar. Quote: Quote: This is the wrong thread for complaining about your race selection. And why would a BS have those bonuses? That's just silly. Our Carrier sucks...but that has zero to do with this discussion. Im not worried about my race choice, im just tired of 2 day old alts coming to the forums telling how they think something should be fixed. When the main is either 2 month old and hasnt even reached this content yet (or enough experience to make a well thought through comparison) or when the main is some "insert random race" lover who just dumps another crap suggestion for a race he doesnt play. In short, your setup is craptastic, has bad boni, bad loadouts and prolly will suck. And before u make any further posts tell us what kind of role you had in mind for it and a "fitting" which would rock. As thats usually where the prank posts can be shed from the ones with a little thought behind. You have no real argument other than laziness, you want two gunship BSes...for no good reason? What would the Tempest be if your uber pest came out? PS: I was flying Min BSes 4 monthes before you even started playing this game. Oh...and I understand why you want simpler Min ships now...just to quote your corp title 'one day I might play Eve again instead of WoW'. Nothing further. ~From the maker of ActiveX and Sobeseki Pawi: The Third and Final Main :o
Eximius Josari	Posted - 2006.03.31 02:05:00 - [58] Originally by: burek Edited by: burek on 31/03/2006 01:59:04 Who would fly the split weapon BS = you Who would fly the 8 turret BS = all of us Ok, so surely we're all clueless... Majority of the minmatar purists have A LOT of skillpoint in gunnery. There is a reason for this. We like our guns! I love my guns too, but its silly to cater to just them when we are a two weapon race. ~From the maker of ActiveX and Sobeseki Pawi: The Third and Final Main :o
burek	Posted - 2006.03.31 02:09:00 - [59] Oh wait, I just thought of something... When do people choose to post with alts? When they are saying something that is or could be rather embarrassing to their main. That's right. Argue with that all you want.
Eximius Josari	Posted - 2006.03.31 02:20:00 - [60] Originally by: burek Oh wait, I just thought of something... When do people choose to post with alts? When they are saying something that is or could be rather embarrassing to their main. That's right. Argue with that all you want. Have you even looked at my sig? Yeah, omg what a revelation, the last two mains I had, one isn't even mine anymore, and the other won't be mine much longer either. I'm not an alt, stop intimating I am just because your argument is paperthin at best. I don't care what you think of me (most of you don't seem to realize that) what matters is the idea put forth. Either why it is good or why it is bad. Sofar I haven't heard much of why its a bad idea...just a bunch of whining and that cool sidediscussion about split weapon dmg mods. ~From the maker of ActiveX and Sobeseki Pawi: The Third and Final Main :o

Kcel Chim	Posted - 2006.03.31 03:08:00 - [61] Edited by: Kcel Chim on 31/03/2006 03:08:55 Originally by: Eximius Josari So the Tempest isn't Minmatar? The Typhoon isn't either? What about the Cyclone? None of them? I don't want a missile boat, what I want is a ship that uses both missiles and projectiles. Or did that obvious fact miss you? They are minmatar, but the tier 3 doesnt need to be a weak remake of a typhoon, does it ? There are also ships like the wolf and stabber who dont see missiles as primary weapons and purely from the lore we are "projectile" while missiles are caldari. Quote: I happen to think Minmatar ships are great, especially with more than just gunnery skills. Amarr is the lazy race, not Minmatar. How do amarr more qualify for a lazy race than galleante or caldari ? Quote: You have no real argument other than laziness, you want two gunship BSes...for no good reason? What would the Tempest be if your uber pest came out? The tempest would still hold its water as a first class ac pest. depending on the other stats and ofc as a mixed firepower vessel with missiles and nos and other boni. Quote: PS: I was flying Min BSes 4 monthes before you even started playing this game. Oh...and I understand why you want simpler Min ships now...just to quote your corp title 'one day I might play Eve again instead of WoW'. Nothing further. Im playing since the 14.05.2003. So if u took a tempest for a ride 4 month before i started, assuming you also learned the skills, you must have started in 2002. Was tq even life then ? As for my corp title, ppl shouldnt believe the crap they read, inside jokes ftw huh ? As for lazyness, i want some good minmatar ships which dont suffer the same shortsightedness (sp?) we see recently with crap boni, stupid slotlayouts and some aimless designs.
Zysco	Posted - 2006.03.31 03:15:00 - [62] Originally by: burek Edited by: burek on 31/03/2006 01:59:04 Who would fly the split weapon BS = you Who would fly the 8 turret BS = all of us Ok, so surely we're all clueless... Yeah, apparently you are. Post change phoon will have RIDICULOUS dps. callon > I don't like traveling much, i think its cause my father used to beat me with a globe. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=300438New vid: "we're back
Kcel Chim	Posted - 2006.03.31 03:18:00 - [63] oh and before you ask, i dont see why minmatar needs to adopt caldari crap in the first place. Every race has a "unique" weapon, give or take the 1-2 missile bays here and there or the utility slot of an arma. Ontop of that each race got a field it should specialize in, amarr tanking, caldari ew, galeante drones. Guess what, minmatar got "sum of all but nowhere really good and ofc not working in all designs". That is what should be looked after and i dont see why we couldnt use a 8 gun fleetbattle behemoth, afterall projectiles are longrange and thats currently popular. For all i care they could make it even a pure shieldtanker with 1k base armor aslong as its not "a typhoon with some extra slots but no real role" again. But as i stated above already, tier 3 is no must for me, i find it rather pointless to add new bs while there are still broken ships in eve which could need a revamp to become more popular. In short if the typhoon was actually on the same "working" level as the other tier 1 bs i would think minnies were pretty much set, same as the other races in my opinion. Blasters fixed for galeante included ofc.
Eximius Josari	Posted - 2006.03.31 03:39:00 - [64] Originally by: Kcel Chim oh and before you ask, i dont see why minmatar needs to adopt caldari crap in the first place. Every race has a "unique" weapon, give or take the 1-2 missile bays here and there or the utility slot of an arma. Ontop of that each race got a field it should specialize in, amarr tanking, caldari ew, galeante drones. Guess what, minmatar got "sum of all but nowhere really good and ofc not working in all designs". That is what should be looked after and i dont see why we couldnt use a 8 gun fleetbattle behemoth, afterall projectiles are longrange and thats currently popular. For all i care they could make it even a pure shieldtanker with 1k base armor aslong as its not "a typhoon with some extra slots but no real role" again. But as i stated above already, tier 3 is no must for me, i find it rather pointless to add new bs while there are still broken ships in eve which could need a revamp to become more popular. In short if the typhoon was actually on the same "working" level as the other tier 1 bs i would think minnies were pretty much set, same as the other races in my opinion. Blasters fixed for galeante included ofc. I think the Typhoon is great as is...and after the change it will be better than a Tempest as far as I am concerned. I'm all for an 8 gun Min BS, and it will be FOTM for the next 6 monthes. I guess I just get annoyed when my dual specialization is only good for practically one ship as something more than a primary/secondary dmg relationship. I used to abhorr missiles, but then I realized how bad our dmg is without them. ~From the maker of ActiveX and Sobeseki Pawi: The Third and Final Main :o
Zephyrlin	Posted - 2006.03.31 03:58:00 - [65] Originally by: Eximius Josari Originally by: Eximius Josari Whether I'm right or wrong, the following comes straight from QuickFit. All skills maxed. Megathron with 7x 425mm II = 261.022 DPS Megathron with 7x 425mm II and 4x MFS II = 457.224 57% increase Armageddon with 7x Tach II = 286.471 Armageddon with 7x Tach II and 4x HS II = 501.797 57% increase Raven with 6x Cruise II = 74.439 Raven with 6x Cruise II and 4x BCS II = 146.91 51% increase Typhoon with 4x 1400 II/4x Cruise II = 157.629 Typhoon with 4x 1400 II/4x Cruise II and 2x BCS II/2x GS II = 232.383 68% increase Now imagine that Typhoon with the soon to come launcher RoF bonus. Apoc with 8x Tach IIs = 245.547 Apoc with 8x Tach IIs and 4x HS IIs = 430.133 57% Well what do you know? Quickfit disagrees with my math and yours too...(11)+(11) wins. Ok, so where exactly are you assuming "my math" has been disproved? I wasn't using the actual stacking penalty, because I was basing the math off of the examples you gave, just to demonstrate that you were completely and utterly wrong. Secondly, what does the % increase that 4 damage mods gives have to do with anything? I was showing you that 4 damage mods affecting 8 turrets is better than 2 affecting 4 and 2 more affecting another 4, which you vehemently claimed several times in this thread. If you want to continue arguing that point, I'll happily provide you with a wall to bang your head against, because that's about all you are doing. Outside of that, I've not commented on anything else, so trying to argue some other random point with me is basically beyond what I would call "having merit". I don't really care what the dps increase is with 4 damage mods. I don't need the exact stacking penalty to tell you that you are an idiot who likes to make things up out of thin air. For the record though, the stacking penalty for 4 damage mods is: 1.00 .87 .57 .28 Futhermore, if you REALLY want a bit of math, try this on for size. This test was done in QUICKFIT using absolutely 0 gunnery and missile skills for equality. Both Gallente and Minmatar BS 5 were used, 0 resistances across the board were entered in order to get raw dps. Megathron with 7x 425 II (Antimatter): 144.934 Megathron with 7x 425 II (Antimatter) and 4x Magstab II: 253.872 Percentage increase: 77.9% Typhoon with 4x 1400 II (EMP) & 4x Cruise II (Any): 136.718 Typhoon with 4x 1400 II (EMP) & 4x Cruise II (Any) and 2x BCU II + 2x Gyro II: 202.184 Percentage increase: 47.8% So as you can see, even though the Megathron has 1 ENTIRE TURRET LESS, it still gets a vastly larger return for the 4 slots of damage mods than your Typhoon does. With 8 turrets it would only increase. I'll leave this arguement with that. If you want to argue further, I suggest you argue with your calculator. I bet it wins. ---------- And God said... "Let there be lasers, and let them go... PEW! PEW! ...."
Eximius Josari	Posted - 2006.03.31 04:23:00 - [66] Meh, I need sleep. ~From the maker of ActiveX and Sobeseki Pawi: The Third and Final Main :o
4 LOM	Posted - 2006.03.31 04:51:00 - [67] Originally by: Keta Min split slot layout = not good. Raven is 6 mids 5 lows thats a split slot layout. and people dont complain at its split layout (well they probably do, bu i dont). i would love to have a ship with 6-6 i dont fly minmatar, but this ship looks really i nice, if the new teir 3 minmattar bs was like this i might even train for it. Versatility is the most fun. Props to this thread creator for actually putting forth a fair idea, instead of all the other wet dream ships other people have been sujesting.
Liu Kaskakka	Posted - 2006.03.31 04:53:00 - [68] I think the original poster has a good idea but it would be even better if it had 3/3/3 layout. (turrets/lauchers/utility) King Liu is RIGHT!!
4 LOM	Posted - 2006.03.31 05:13:00 - [69] Originally by: Eximius Josari Originally by: burek Oh wait, I just thought of something... When do people choose to post with alts? When they are saying something that is or could be rather embarrassing to their main. That's right. Argue with that all you want. Have you even looked at my sig? Yeah, omg what a revelation, the last two mains I had, one isn't even mine anymore, and the other won't be mine much longer either. I'm not an alt, stop intimating I am just because your argument is paperthin at best. I don't care what you think of me (most of you don't seem to realize that) what matters is the idea put forth. Either why it is good or why it is bad. Sofar I haven't heard much of why its a bad idea...just a bunch of whining and that cool sidediscussion about split weapon dmg mods. This is way off topic. I dont think you know what an alt is, YOU CANNOT HAVE MORE THEN 1 MAIN CHARACTER. every charcter you creat no matter if its on its second account, or a third account. Therefore you are posting with an alt, end of statment. At least thats how i see it.
Keta Min	Posted - 2006.03.31 05:32:00 - [70] Originally by: 4 LOM Originally by: Keta Min split slot layout = not good. Raven is 6 mids 5 lows thats a split slot layout. and people dont complain at its split layout (well they probably do, bu i dont). i would love to have a ship with 6-6 i dont fly minmatar, but this ship looks really i nice, if the new teir 3 minmattar bs was like this i might even train for it. Versatility is the most fun. Props to this thread creator for actually putting forth a fair idea, instead of all the other wet dream ships other people have been sujesting. split weapons, einstein. not meds and lows

Keta Min	Posted - 2006.03.31 05:34:00 - [71] Edited by: Keta Min on 31/03/2006 05:34:10 Originally by: 4 LOM Originally by: Keta Min split slot layout = not good. Raven is 6 mids 5 lows thats a split slot layout. and people dont complain at its split layout (well they probably do, bu i dont). i would love to have a ship with 6-6 i dont fly minmatar, but this ship looks really i nice, if the new teir 3 minmattar bs was like this i might even train for it. Versatility is the most fun. Props to this thread creator for actually putting forth a fair idea, instead of all the other wet dream ships other people have been sujesting. split weapons, einstein. not meds and lows Originally by: Liu Kaskakka I think the original poster has a good idea but it would be even better if it had 3/3/3 layout. (turrets/lauchers/utility) don't give the devs ideas ><
4 LOM	Posted - 2006.03.31 05:36:00 - [72] Originally by: Keta Min Originally by: 4 LOM Originally by: Keta Min split slot layout = not good. Raven is 6 mids 5 lows thats a split slot layout. and people dont complain at its split layout (well they probably do, bu i dont). i would love to have a ship with 6-6 i dont fly minmatar, but this ship looks really i nice, if the new teir 3 minmattar bs was like this i might even train for it. Versatility is the most fun. Props to this thread creator for actually putting forth a fair idea, instead of all the other wet dream ships other people have been sujesting. split weapons, einstein. not meds and lows LOL your first message was SLOT LAYOUT not hardpoint layout. forgive me if i read what you said and posted acordingly. perhaps you should read what you actually posted before you flame me for posting on what you actually wrote.
Keta Min	Posted - 2006.03.31 05:38:00 - [73] Originally by: 4 LOM Originally by: Keta Min Originally by: 4 LOM Originally by: Keta Min split slot layout = not good. Raven is 6 mids 5 lows thats a split slot layout. and people dont complain at its split layout (well they probably do, bu i dont). i would love to have a ship with 6-6 i dont fly minmatar, but this ship looks really i nice, if the new teir 3 minmattar bs was like this i might even train for it. Versatility is the most fun. Props to this thread creator for actually putting forth a fair idea, instead of all the other wet dream ships other people have been sujesting. split weapons, einstein. not meds and lows LOL your first message was SLOT LAYOUT not hardpoint layout. forgive me if i read what you said and posted acordingly. perhaps you should read what you actually posted before you flame me for posting on what you actually wrote. well you were the only one who read it like that.
4 LOM	Posted - 2006.03.31 05:43:00 - [74] Originally by: Keta Min Originally by: 4 LOM Originally by: Keta Min Originally by: 4 LOM Originally by: Keta Min split slot layout = not good. Raven is 6 mids 5 lows thats a split slot layout. and people dont complain at its split layout (well they probably do, bu i dont). i would love to have a ship with 6-6 i dont fly minmatar, but this ship looks really i nice, if the new teir 3 minmattar bs was like this i might even train for it. Versatility is the most fun. Props to this thread creator for actually putting forth a fair idea, instead of all the other wet dream ships other people have been sujesting. split weapons, einstein. not meds and lows LOL your first message was SLOT LAYOUT not hardpoint layout. forgive me if i read what you said and posted acordingly. perhaps you should read what you actually posted before you flame me for posting on what you actually wrote. well you were the only one who read it like that. Then i am the only one who read it correctly, dont flame me for actually reading your post.
Keta Min	Posted - 2006.03.31 05:48:00 - [75] Originally by: 4 LOM Originally by: Keta Min Originally by: 4 LOM Originally by: Keta Min Originally by: 4 LOM Originally by: Keta Min split slot layout = not good. Raven is 6 mids 5 lows thats a split slot layout. and people dont complain at its split layout (well they probably do, bu i dont). i would love to have a ship with 6-6 i dont fly minmatar, but this ship looks really i nice, if the new teir 3 minmattar bs was like this i might even train for it. Versatility is the most fun. Props to this thread creator for actually putting forth a fair idea, instead of all the other wet dream ships other people have been sujesting. split weapons, einstein. not meds and lows LOL your first message was SLOT LAYOUT not hardpoint layout. forgive me if i read what you said and posted acordingly. perhaps you should read what you actually posted before you flame me for posting on what you actually wrote. well you were the only one who read it like that. Then i am the only one who read it correctly, dont flame me for actually reading your post. <insert generic flame>
Eximius Josari	Posted - 2006.03.31 05:56:00 - [76] Originally by: 4 LOM Originally by: Eximius Josari Originally by: burek Oh wait, I just thought of something... When do people choose to post with alts? When they are saying something that is or could be rather embarrassing to their main. That's right. Argue with that all you want. Have you even looked at my sig? Yeah, omg what a revelation, the last two mains I had, one isn't even mine anymore, and the other won't be mine much longer either. I'm not an alt, stop intimating I am just because your argument is paperthin at best. I don't care what you think of me (most of you don't seem to realize that) what matters is the idea put forth. Either why it is good or why it is bad. Sofar I haven't heard much of why its a bad idea...just a bunch of whining and that cool sidediscussion about split weapon dmg mods. This is way off topic. I dont think you know what an alt is, YOU CANNOT HAVE MORE THEN 1 MAIN CHARACTER. every charcter you creat no matter if its on its second account, or a third account. Therefore you are posting with an alt, end of statment. At least thats how i see it. So if my two previous mains are both sold off, I'm still an alt? Seems kinda silly. ~From the maker of ActiveX and Sobeseki Pawi: The Third and Final Main :o
Eximius Josari	Posted - 2006.03.31 05:57:00 - [77] Originally by: Liu Kaskakka I think the original poster has a good idea but it would be even better if it had 3/3/3 layout. (turrets/lauchers/utility) Lol, that would only fly with a double bonus at least. 10% dmg/rof/etc. ~From the maker of ActiveX and Sobeseki Pawi: The Third and Final Main :o
HippoKing	Posted - 2006.03.31 06:42:00 - [78] Edited by: HippoKing on 31/03/2006 06:41:42 Originally by: Eximius Josari Whether I'm right or wrong, the following comes straight from QuickFit. All skills maxed. Megathron with 7x 425mm II = 261.022 DPS Megathron with 7x 425mm II and 4x MFS II = 457.224 57% increase no its not, its 75% Armageddon with 7x Tach II = 286.471 Armageddon with 7x Tach II and 4x HS II = 501.797 57% increase wrong again, 75% Raven with 6x Cruise II = 74.439 Raven with 6x Cruise II and 4x BCS II = 146.91 51% increase ... uh... 97% in fact Typhoon with 4x 1400 II/4x Cruise II = 157.629 Typhoon with 4x 1400 II/4x Cruise II and 2x BCS II/2x GS II = 232.383 68% increase 47% Now imagine that with the right numbers corrected slightly now am i right, or am i right? sigs of the 23/24/25 hijack just as well -eris yarrrr, i shall retake my sig -HippoKing Not a chance, our 1337 sig haXx0r sk1llz are too powerful! - Wrangler Ho-Ho-Hooooooo, Merry Saturday!11 - Immy Yo ho ho and a bottle of BReeEEEEeee.... - Jacques ARRRRRRchambault Stop spamming with "QFT" >:\|. - Teblin
SargeMonkey	Posted - 2006.03.31 06:48:00 - [79] Hmm, I like the Idea of an 8 turret BS with a much higher top speed than the other BS's and a Bonus to ROF, tracking, and Op range/damage. 6 med and 6 low, make in a versitile tank, armor or sheild. Give it a resistance to Nos like I said before so it can get in close, and maybe a way for it to get 'un-webbed' or for its effects to be lessened. They also need to make Min ships better... They are a little bit of everything and suck at it all. Make them much faster make Projectile weapons have a very high tracking rate, and better ROF and not use Cap to fire. Give them a resistance to Nos and Web's so it can get in close and survive. Make them like a `vette not a truck, fast and agile but a moderate to weak tank. Now anything bigger than a frig is slow, sluggish and turns on a freaking moon. A rifter's speed/aggility is a big differance when you look at the cruisers. It shouldn't be that much of a differance. Hell, my Cyclone is slow to accelerate, and takes 3 or more MWD cycles to hit full speed. Then it take much to long to slow down, and at speed it can't turn. The Rupture was smaller but not much better in the speed/aggility feild. I understand that Cruisers, BC's and BS's are big, but seeing as min ships are supposidly fast and agile shouldn't there big ships be... fast and agile? The rifter is almost the size of a cruiser, and is the same size maybe a little smaller then the games small cruiser's. As a penelty for all this uber l33t speed, no drones. Just make up for that with a really high speed and Tracking so they can hit stuff going 2.5 km/s! Ok, end rant. -_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_- I can't spell, don't tell me I already know. -_-_-_-_-_-_-
Eximius Josari	Posted - 2006.03.31 06:49:00 - [80] Originally by: HippoKing Edited by: HippoKing on 31/03/2006 06:41:42 Originally by: Eximius Josari Whether I'm right or wrong, the following comes straight from QuickFit. All skills maxed. Megathron with 7x 425mm II = 261.022 DPS Megathron with 7x 425mm II and 4x MFS II = 457.224 57% increase no its not, its 75% Armageddon with 7x Tach II = 286.471 Armageddon with 7x Tach II and 4x HS II = 501.797 57% increase wrong again, 75% Raven with 6x Cruise II = 74.439 Raven with 6x Cruise II and 4x BCS II = 146.91 51% increase ... uh... 97% in fact Typhoon with 4x 1400 II/4x Cruise II = 157.629 Typhoon with 4x 1400 II/4x Cruise II and 2x BCS II/2x GS II = 232.383 68% increase 47% Now imagine that with the right numbers corrected slightly now am i right, or am i right? Son of a *****. Time for bed. See you all tomorrow. ~From the creator of ActiveX and Sobeseki Pawi: The Final Main :p C.E.N.S.U.S. Arrays - The key to Covert 0.0

HippoKing	Posted - 2006.03.31 07:01:00 - [81] Originally by: 4 LOM Originally by: Keta Min Originally by: 4 LOM Originally by: Keta Min split slot layout = not good. Raven is 6 mids 5 lows thats a split slot layout. and people dont complain at its split layout (well they probably do, bu i dont). i would love to have a ship with 6-6 i dont fly minmatar, but this ship looks really i nice, if the new teir 3 minmattar bs was like this i might even train for it. Versatility is the most fun. Props to this thread creator for actually putting forth a fair idea, instead of all the other wet dream ships other people have been sujesting. split weapons, einstein. not meds and lows LOL your first message was SLOT LAYOUT not hardpoint layout. forgive me if i read what you said and posted acordingly. perhaps you should read what you actually posted before you flame me for posting on what you actually wrote. setups include PDUs and BCUs even though they don't exist. but people KNOW what you are talking about, and a split-slot layout (or split hard-point or split-weapons) is how the community refers to these designs. and for the record, saying LOL never makes you look good sigs of the 23/24/25 hijack just as well -eris yarrrr, i shall retake my sig -HippoKing Not a chance, our 1337 sig haXx0r sk1llz are too powerful! - Wrangler Ho-Ho-Hooooooo, Merry Saturday!11 - Immy Yo ho ho and a bottle of BReeEEEEeee.... - Jacques ARRRRRRchambault Stop spamming with "QFT" >:\|. - Teblin
Omatje	Posted - 2006.03.31 07:44:00 - [82] Why do i get a creepy feeling this is Tux alt secretly warning us we get the shaft again? This is by far the worst idea for 3rd tier Minnie BS. I have seen some pretty cool suggestions in previous threads which actually made sense. This the-phoon-sux-let's-make-the-new-minnie-BS-look-like-a-phoon-but-then-without-it's-usefull-sides idea is really horrible. sig?
Pesadel0	Posted - 2006.03.31 08:29:00 - [83] Originally by: Omatje Edited by: Omatje on 31/03/2006 07:46:15 Why do i get a creepy feeling this is Tux alt secretly warning us we get the shaft again? This is by far the worst idea for 3rd tier Minnie BS. I have seen some pretty cool suggestions in previous threads which actually made sense. This the-phoon-sux-let's-make-the-new-minnie-BS-look-like-a-phoon-but-then-without-it's-usefull-sides idea is really horrible. I agree with ya i mean for god sake pipol spot posting this ideias in the forums tuxford might read them and destroy the tier 3 BS . What the hell are we(minmatar) now the crapie race of eve? Lets get the thier 3 a real powerhouse in projectiles,gimp it in meds or lows i dont care give love to the minies.
Adril Alatar	Posted - 2006.03.31 09:22:00 - [84] Originally by: Eximius Josari Edited by: Eximius Josari on 31/03/2006 02:02:41 I don't want a missile boat, what I want is a ship that uses both missiles and projectiles. After reading this thread i dont know what you want. If you want a Battleships with Guns and Missiles fly the typhoon.
Fredbob	Posted - 2006.03.31 10:27:00 - [85] We have a missiles/guns mixed ship - Typhoon, and hardly anybody flies the damn thing . Yes there are those who want a mix, and you should be asking for a buff to phoon not a new ship . I may be generalising, but I feel most minnie pilots/elites would feel the same as myself in preffering a gunship. Sure all minnie ships seem to have a minimum of 2 missile slots, but we chose minnie for projectiles - Caldari are just as much a mixed race as us but they have two useful BS .. We just happen to have empty missile slots on many of our ships lol Personally I'd like a speed ship styled on the Jag/Vaga train, with a velocity bonus and lots of turret slots but low grid = autocannon ship. Yes the phoon is the fastest bs, but without a speed bonus it's useless having 10m/s or whatever advantage . Either way CCP have to be careful not to make tempest obsolete, or the phoon even more useless than it is atm ___________ ~Fredbob~
Shidhe	Posted - 2006.03.31 11:14:00 - [86] The tier 3 BS should be a projectile specialist boat - anything else means that the Minmatar loose out to other racial designs. But also the Minmatar cannot afford to have all their BS totally dependent on projectiles - variety is needed to mount effective Minmatar only fleets (as well as making the game easier to balance). So - remodel the phoon so that it is not primarily projectile (it needs serious reworking anyway, and those who want more projectiles on the phoon just havent thought enough about the big picture ). Dont make the phoon the poor mans Tempest!
Orvy	Posted - 2006.03.31 12:10:00 - [87] I like Eximius for the single reason - he's one of the few people who is thinking creatively, not just flaming other peoples' ideas. I think The split weapons systems ships are viable if, and only if developers account for this fact in ships bonuses. For example if the ship gets 5% bonus to its 7 slots, the ship with 4/4 should be getting at least 7.5% bonus to these slots in order to account for the need to waste more slots on tracking/damage enchancers. And please guys, be nice, even if you don't like someone's ideas don't flame them that's exactly why people are forced to post with their alts. ______________________________________________ Fighting for perfection of sweets recepies
Brotkrumen	Posted - 2006.03.31 12:32:00 - [88] Everybody knows that all tier 3 BS will have boni for cargo and mining yield. The amarr BS will have an additional bonus for large projectile weapons. nuff said
Shidhe	Posted - 2006.03.31 14:40:00 - [89] Originally by: Orvy I like Eximius for the single reason - he's one of the few people who is thinking creatively, not just flaming other peoples' ideas. I think The split weapons systems ships are viable if, and only if developers account for this fact in ships bonuses. For example if the ship gets 5% bonus to its 7 slots, the ship with 4/4 should be getting at least 7.5% bonus to these slots in order to account for the need to waste more slots on tracking/damage enchancers. And please guys, be nice, even if you don't like someone's ideas don't flame them that's exactly why people are forced to post with their alts. I agree, it would be possible, and interesting, to do this. But it wont happen. The Typhoon saga, and the fact that the proposed fixes still don't combinsate for the split, demonstrates that quite well. I also agree with the comment on flaming!
Max Teranous	Posted - 2006.03.31 14:48:00 - [90] Personally I like the idea of an 8 turret battleship, with the grid to support them, and a bonus to damage, but not RoF. That creates a monster of an alpha strike ship - lovely for fleets. For A/C's, use the Tempest. For being unpredictable, use the typhoon. FYI, I like the split slot typhoon once it gets it boost. Let's face it, if the pilots of them have no idea which way to fit it, their opponents certainly won't ! Max

Ithildin	Posted - 2006.03.31 15:04:00 - [91] According to the devs they're gonna make tier three BShips unique as "there's room for more unique battleships". Or whatever HH/TomB wrote waaay back. My own fear from looking at the drafts is that they intend to make fleet-specialized ships (this means turrets galore). However, the devs have gotten some arguments against the drafts, which they've apparently read and considered, that they rival or surpas faction ships in power - something the devs have stated they wish not to happen. As to the relevance in this thred - I doubt that they will make a Typhoon Mark II, nor a BFTempest. (Oh, and the tier 3 is most likely to be named Hurricane, not Thor ) Do not ask me what I think/hope they'll make for the Amarr or Minmatar, however, since those two races are hardest to come up with unique - although the recent trend seem to be that Minmatar get ships that grow on you like a fungus and the Amarr ones will simply dance in and land on the top spot. (Poor, poor, Caldari who seem to have taken the wrong end of the stick lately... hehehe) What is "missing" when you look at the other ship classes for Amarr is a drone carrier (since they've already done the setups "laser boat with good tank" as well as "tank boat with good lasers") and that's strictly Gallente territory (omg! people are whining about a tier 1 drone boat!). For Minmatar what's missing is a target painter ship, and that... let's just say that CCP would be getting quite a few blood-smeared Khumaaks (sp?) in their mails. Originally by: KilROCK Originally by: Arkanor Gallente missileboat might be cool. Pod yourself till you got no skills.[
Eximius Josari	Posted - 2006.03.31 18:30:00 - [92] If CCP changes the Tempest (or even the Typhoon) into being a stronger tank. The Tier 3 Min BS could get away with being a better offensive gunship. IF something like this happened: Typhoon 8/5/6 Tempest 8/6/5 New BS* 8/6/6 I think that would be just fine. Still not perfect tanks for any style, but can do all of them pretty well. But this is the annoying part: Typhoon 4 guns/4 launchers Tempest 6 guns/4 launchers New BS* 8 guns/4 launchers? Obviously that makes the new BS the most dmging as a pure gunship. But what if like someone said it only had the Dmg Bonus and not the RoF bonus. It still might out DPS the Tempest unless the Tempest is using missiles. If the new BS has a velocity bonus...man it that ship will be hard not to want to fly. I looove fast ships. I still think my original post is a better idea, except for the people who just want a cheaper and probably stronger Machariel. ~From the creator of ActiveX and Sobeseki Pawi: The Final Main :p C.E.N.S.U.S. Arrays - The key to Covert 0.0
Fuyursuki	Posted - 2006.03.31 18:33:00 - [93] Originally by: Ithildin For Minmatar what's missing is a target painter ship /me shudders Please no. IMO, Leave the tracking/support modules to the support ships and let the bs's get on with the fighting. Personallly I'd like a 7 turreted ship with the 8th slot going to something that would suit the situation. If we had an 8 turret slot bs we'd just get nerfed some more, because other people would class it as unfair. (OMG you can fit 8 of the hardest hitting weapons on the game), unless they gave us a small pg and make it an auto-boat (which would just outclass my tempest in that field ) 7 Slots and no more mm nerfs 4tw! 'Suki
Tulthix	Posted - 2006.03.31 18:49:00 - [94] I think we all really know the caldari are getting a bada** railship. My guess is Amarr are getting a big droneship like a beefed up arbitrator. And you know deep down minmatar will get screwed again on their big ships. Target painter bonus, here it comes.
Eximius Josari	Posted - 2006.04.01 03:04:00 - [95] Target Painter bonus...yeah I would hate that too. ~From the creator of ActiveX and Sobeseki Pawi: The Final Main :p C.E.N.S.U.S. Arrays - The key to Covert 0.0
Loki Caldaris	Posted - 2006.04.01 03:32:00 - [96] Edited by: Loki Caldaris on 01/04/2006 03:33:05 Originally by: Eximius Josari Whether I'm right or wrong, the following comes straight from QuickFit. All skills maxed. Megathron with 7x 425mm II = 261.022 DPS Megathron with 7x 425mm II and 4x MFS II = 457.224 57% increase Armageddon with 7x Tach II = 286.471 Armageddon with 7x Tach II and 4x HS II = 501.797 57% increase Raven with 6x Cruise II = 74.439 Raven with 6x Cruise II and 4x BCS II = 146.91 51% increase Typhoon with 4x 1400 II/4x Cruise II = 157.629 Typhoon with 4x 1400 II/4x Cruise II and 2x BCS II/2x GS II = 232.383 68% increase Now imagine that Typhoon with the soon to come launcher RoF bonus. Where are your % increases coming from? First setup(mega) has a 75.168% damage increase. Second setup(arma) has a 75.165% damage increase. Third setup(raven) has a 97.436% damage increase. Fourth setup(typhoon) has a 47.424% damage increase.
Eximius Josari	Posted - 2006.04.01 03:40:00 - [97] Originally by: Loki Caldaris Edited by: Loki Caldaris on 01/04/2006 03:33:05 Originally by: Eximius Josari Whether I'm right or wrong, the following comes straight from QuickFit. All skills maxed. Megathron with 7x 425mm II = 261.022 DPS Megathron with 7x 425mm II and 4x MFS II = 457.224 57% increase Armageddon with 7x Tach II = 286.471 Armageddon with 7x Tach II and 4x HS II = 501.797 57% increase Raven with 6x Cruise II = 74.439 Raven with 6x Cruise II and 4x BCS II = 146.91 51% increase Typhoon with 4x 1400 II/4x Cruise II = 157.629 Typhoon with 4x 1400 II/4x Cruise II and 2x BCS II/2x GS II = 232.383 68% increase Now imagine that Typhoon with the soon to come launcher RoF bonus. Where are your % increases coming from? First setup(mega) has a 75.168% damage increase. Second setup(arma) has a 75.165% damage increase. Third setup(raven) has a 97.436% damage increase. Fourth setup(typhoon) has a 47.424% damage increase. Yes, someone covered that already. ~From the creator of ActiveX and Sobeseki Pawi: The Final Main :p C.E.N.S.U.S. Arrays - The key to Covert 0.0


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