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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Edward Olmops
Sirius Fleet
131
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Posted - 2014.01.30 09:43:00 -
[31] - Quote
I have to say I agree with the point that it's not much difference between this thing broadcasting WH activity and a cloaked scout.
I know it FEELs differently, because the intruder loses this "stealthy super bad guy" feeling, but in fact, the ESS is an advantage for you PvPers.
Just think about it.
A) You enter a wormhole and look for targets. Cloaky scout reports you. You will not know.
B) You enter a wormhole and look for targets. ESS screams in local. You KNOW that you have been reported.
For the ratter, it makes no difference. You will be reported in both cases. If he does not pay attention, you will get him anyway. The cheap scout alt on a free slot of a second account might even cost much less than a new ESS plus logistics for every single hole open during ratting.
But for YOU it's definitely different. You know instantly whether your potential target is careful or not. Whether it does make sense to lurk around for hours or not.
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Adoris Nolen
Sama Guild
36
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Posted - 2014.01.30 09:56:00 -
[32] - Quote
Some of you are really really creative. I'd have never thought of putting it at the WH. It needs a massive range distance from WH's. |
Peter Cephas
Viziam
Amarr Empire
1
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Posted - 2014.01.30 09:57:00 -
[33] - Quote
Keith Planck wrote:Dmitry Wizard wrote:thats not the point keith. its a 30 km bubble and broadcasts who you are in local.... its broken It is the point... It's cheaper and more efficient to use a real bubble and listen to the hole on an alt It's 25mil and cant be recovered so it's not like you can move them from wormhole to wormhole. It's just a slightly more convenient and expensive but less effective method of watching for Gankers. If those bears you tried to Gank had a large bubble and a scout on the hole you wouldn't have killed them. You won't see these on holes any more frequently then you'll see large bubbles. So what exactly is it breaking?
Sorry, but how can it be cheaper to have to plex a full account, to have a guard watching over the hole, with the sound on, then buy a cheap module and just planting it there when you run sites?
650+ for a plex
25 mil for one of those
Lets say you are lucky and get 15 days of full 2 hour siting...
thats 25x15 = 375 mil.
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Peter Cephas
Viziam
Amarr Empire
1
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Posted - 2014.01.30 10:01:00 -
[34] - Quote
Edward Olmops wrote:I have to say I agree with the point that it's not much difference between this thing broadcasting WH activity and a cloaked scout.
I know it FEELs differently, because the intruder loses this "stealthy super bad guy" feeling, but in fact, the ESS is an advantage for you PvPers.
Just think about it.
A) You enter a wormhole and look for targets. Cloaky scout reports you. You will not know.
B) You enter a wormhole and look for targets. ESS screams in local. You KNOW that you have been reported.
For the ratter, it makes no difference. You will be reported in both cases. If he does not pay attention, you will get him anyway. The cheap scout alt on a free slot of a second account might even cost much less than a new ESS plus logistics for every single hole open during ratting.
But for YOU it's definitely different. You know instantly whether your potential target is careful or not. Whether it does make sense to lurk around for hours or not.
It's not the same, a cloaked alt leaves room for error for a scout looking for a siting crew to find them and know where they are before they all bowl into you and pop you.
Here you get an instant warning when someone has entered your system, even before he has time to get any intel on where you are/what you are doing/friend to fleet up with him to come gank you.
A cloaked scout only needs a toilet-break to miss incomming. A beacon broadcasting to EVERYONE is a whole different matter
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Jay Joringer
Serene Vendetta
315
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Posted - 2014.01.30 10:01:00 -
[35] - Quote
Peter Cephas wrote:Keith Planck wrote:Dmitry Wizard wrote:thats not the point keith. its a 30 km bubble and broadcasts who you are in local.... its broken It is the point... It's cheaper and more efficient to use a real bubble and listen to the hole on an alt It's 25mil and cant be recovered so it's not like you can move them from wormhole to wormhole. It's just a slightly more convenient and expensive but less effective method of watching for Gankers. If those bears you tried to Gank had a large bubble and a scout on the hole you wouldn't have killed them. You won't see these on holes any more frequently then you'll see large bubbles. So what exactly is it breaking? Sorry, but how can it be cheaper to have to plex a full account, to have a guard watching over the hole, with the sound on, then buy a cheap module and just planting it there when you run sites? 650+ for a plex 25 mil for one of those Lets say you are lucky and get 15 days of full 2 hour siting... thats 25x15 = 375 mil.
Confirming that no one leaves a cloaky alt watching a WH on their second screen because of the hideously high expense of doing so.
No one.
"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage."
-Anais Nin
http://smug-bastard.blogspot.co.uk/ |
Enthropic
Infinite Point
Nulli Secunda
71
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Posted - 2014.01.30 10:04:00 -
[36] - Quote
I dont think there is a point discussing which is better or more efficient, leaving an alt as scout on a WH entrance or anchoring an ESS for automated intel.
IMO, there cant be any question that this is ******** and counter-productive to have in WH space.
I do find it amusing that apparently nobody at CCP did even think of this when they deployed this structure in the latest patch.
In WHs there is delayed local, there are no bounties and therefore there is absolutely no place for this deployable in WH space.
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NinjaStyle
hirr
RAZOR Alliance
45
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Posted - 2014.01.30 10:31:00 -
[37] - Quote
as a null sec resident: HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA ESS USAGE FOUND! |
Peter Cephas
Viziam
Amarr Empire
1
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Posted - 2014.01.30 10:38:00 -
[38] - Quote
Jay Joringer wrote:Peter Cephas wrote:Keith Planck wrote:Dmitry Wizard wrote:thats not the point keith. its a 30 km bubble and broadcasts who you are in local.... its broken It is the point... It's cheaper and more efficient to use a real bubble and listen to the hole on an alt It's 25mil and cant be recovered so it's not like you can move them from wormhole to wormhole. It's just a slightly more convenient and expensive but less effective method of watching for Gankers. If those bears you tried to Gank had a large bubble and a scout on the hole you wouldn't have killed them. You won't see these on holes any more frequently then you'll see large bubbles. So what exactly is it breaking? Sorry, but how can it be cheaper to have to plex a full account, to have a guard watching over the hole, with the sound on, then buy a cheap module and just planting it there when you run sites? 650+ for a plex 25 mil for one of those Lets say you are lucky and get 15 days of full 2 hour siting... thats 25x15 = 375 mil. Confirming that no one leaves a cloaky alt watching a WH on their second screen because of the hideously high expense of doing so. No one.
Of course people DO it, but saying that it's cheaper is not true.
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Edward Olmops
Sirius Fleet
132
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Posted - 2014.01.30 10:43:00 -
[39] - Quote
We certainly agree on some points:
1. The ESS was definitely not designed to be used in WHs.
2. Someone actually found out that despite not being designed for this, one can actually make use of an ESS in WHs.
So, in the first place this is great! Someone used the sandbox and his creativity to do something unexpected.
Now the question is:
Is this breaking the game in terms of giving a huge and unfair advantage over other other existing methods of achieving the same.
So IT IS a point discussing which is better or more efficient, leaving an alt as scout on a WH entrance or anchoring an ESS for automated intel. |
Erica Dusette
Nighthawk Exploration
2749
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Posted - 2014.01.30 10:52:00 -
[40] - Quote
Chitsa Jason wrote:Forwarding info to CCP. I hope it gets fixed as free intel should not be on the table in wspace.
Except it's not free, really.
You still have to pay for an ESS, safely anchor it, and risk giving away a free killmail. You've also just bubbled your exits - which can be as dangerous to you as to anyone else jumping in.
Just playing devil's advocate. 
Major (Ret.) Caldary Naval Militia | Morale Officer (Pinup model)
Just an innocent explorer!-á pâä | -áWormhole Sisters of EVE
Herrbert: "womwomwowmwoaugharwajwowoooommm"
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Lloyd Roses
Blue-Fire
492
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Posted - 2014.01.30 10:56:00 -
[41] - Quote
Taking the unknown from wormholes, one step at a time. Just wait for the deployable to switch on local. 
@keith: Just anchoring a structure worth nothing on a wormhole that screams who is entering your turf is so fundamentally wrong, I can't understand how you can bear with that tendency for a second.
Jay Joringer wrote:
Confirming that no one leaves a cloaky alt watching a WH on their second screen because of the hideously high expense of doing so.
No one.
Problem being that humans are unreliable, so you got odds to sneak in without your name stated atleast, further the watchman is free to post the name or to work with you, letting you infiltrate the system (metagaming), this ESS though is bringing local to your hole - for you, the defender. As if the scanning overlay wasn't helping enough.
On another note though, I don't do much pve - so I might be biased in another direction compared to many here it seems.
"I honestly thought I was in lowsec"
Moving pictures:
The Enyo |
Edward Olmops
Sirius Fleet
133
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Posted - 2014.01.30 11:07:00 -
[42] - Quote
It seems like many people here base their gameplay on toilet breaks of others or on PvE being so exceptionally boring that ratters inevitably fall asleep after awhile.
Philosophical question: if someone writes in local, but everyone else is having a toilet break - is that still Intel? |
Jay Joringer
Serene Vendetta
315
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Posted - 2014.01.30 11:11:00 -
[43] - Quote
Lloyd Roses wrote:Taking the unknown from wormholes, one step at a time. Just wait for the deployable to switch on local. @keith: Just anchoring a structure worth nothing on a wormhole that screams who is entering your turf is so fundamentally wrong, I can't understand how you can bear with that tendency for a second. Jay Joringer wrote:
Confirming that no one leaves a cloaky alt watching a WH on their second screen because of the hideously high expense of doing so.
No one.
Problem being that humans are unreliable, so you got odds to sneak in without your name stated atleast, further the watchman is free to post the name or to work with you, letting you infiltrate the system (metagaming), this ESS though is bringing local to your hole - for you, the defender. As if the scanning overlay wasn't helping enough. On another note though, I don't do much pve - so I might be biased in another direction compared to many here it seems.
I wouldn't be one to accuse you of missing the point again, but I think you've missed the point.
"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage."
-Anais Nin
http://smug-bastard.blogspot.co.uk/ |
Sum Olgy
Future Corps
Sleeper Social Club
52
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Posted - 2014.01.30 11:11:00 -
[44] - Quote
Caius Beriat wrote:The question is, will the CSM be able to get them to fix this? 
At least one CSM laughed long and laughed hard at this particular 'feature'. 
Anyway, I think we all agree it's a broken mechanic, especially as it triggers if you're cloaked and nullified and just on grid with it.
However, as a conflict generator it has distinct possibilities. And players taking a seemingly innocuous mechanic and twisting it to something malevolent is what makes this game. |
Xequecal
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
158
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Posted - 2014.01.30 11:18:00 -
[45] - Quote
This is pretty much all-encompassing: If your answer to any kind of eve balance issue is "well, you can just use an alt on anothe account to do the same thing this does" then please shut up because you are clueless. You're like the highsec miners that try to get into industry on the assumption that ore they mined themselves is free. |
Bronya Boga
Lead Farmers Origin
Kill It With Fire
288
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Posted - 2014.01.30 11:58:00 -
[46] - Quote
Wow something new that CCP ****** up..what a surprise.
My Opinions are my own and do not reflect my corp
Host of Down The Pipe-á
www.downthepipe-wh.com
Ingame Channel DTP Podcast |
Hoodie Mafia
Boris Johnson's Love Children
Awakened.
15
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Posted - 2014.01.30 12:26:00 -
[47] - Quote
Signed for fixing |
Sundiel
Cynical Criterion
Novus Dominatum
14
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Posted - 2014.01.30 12:34:00 -
[48] - Quote
Well its doesnt anchor itself when a new WH is spawned/rolled atleast :P
Tbh I was not even aware of this thing.
But have to agree it needs to be limited to K-Space. |
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
Brave Collective
967
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Posted - 2014.01.30 13:03:00 -
[49] - Quote
The crappy ESS has nothing to do in wormholes, or even in null near wormholes. Make it go.
Signature Tanking - Best Tanking. |
Cosmic Scanner
Temnava Legion
No Holes Barred
55
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Posted - 2014.01.30 13:34:00 -
[50] - Quote
This ESS Device has no place in wormholes. Disable the ability to use it here please!
Cosmic Scanner / muu lufragga |
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Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings
Situation: Normal
2009
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Posted - 2014.01.30 13:56:00 -
[51] - Quote
So just out of curiosity, has anyone bothered to post this information anywhere that it matters? LIke a bug report or just in this threadnaught? |
Anariasis
Boris Johnson's Love Children
Awakened.
39
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Posted - 2014.01.30 14:07:00 -
[52] - Quote
In 0.0 space close to WHs, sure, why not. Good trap ;)
In WH space? Where there's no bounty anyway? NO NO NO!!!
Until then: We got an automatic doorbell now, rings even if you don't want to ;) |
Atlantis Fuanan
Uncharted Skies
Cerberus Unleashed
73
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Posted - 2014.01.30 14:08:00 -
[53] - Quote
Didn't Chitsa has written some pages ago that this was redirected to CCP?
If CCP wasn't trying to silently introduce local to WH this thing needs some fixing. IF CCP was trying to establish a local in WH then they probably have some stuff in the office i want too O.o
I am living in a Wormhole because of the missing local, because of possible scout by-passing during toilet breaks. If i want to have a instant notifictation that someone is in the System i go to LS/NS.
Things that would make EVE better:
NRDS - Remove Local - Balance Cloak - Sov-Mechanic Changes - Less QQ |
Mr Floydy
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
179
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Posted - 2014.01.30 14:19:00 -
[54] - Quote
The mod should be binned from the game entirely imo :p Definitely not something I want to see in WH space, I came here because there wasn't any free intel in local... |
Rall Mekin
End-of-Line
226
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Posted - 2014.01.30 14:22:00 -
[55] - Quote
If this isn't fixed, wormhole PVP will suffer, and eventually a lot of people who play EVE for wormhole living will quit and go elsewhere. This possibly includes me.
Join End-of-Line, -EOL, today, and kill your CEO! (Terms and conditions apply.)
http://imgur.com/yEQqAeb |
M1k3y Koontz
Thorn Project
Surely You're Joking
535
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Posted - 2014.01.30 14:32:00 -
[56] - Quote
Get the ESS out of WHs, there's no local in WHs, lets keep it that way.
Or at least make the anchor distance 20km+ away from WHs so it doesn't act as an early warning system.
How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp. |
Tyrant Scorn
10
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Posted - 2014.01.30 14:35:00 -
[57] - Quote
It not only makes an announcement in local, it also shows who the ESS belongs to when you click on the Show Info option on the deployable.
So the person jumping in can see who deployed it, giving away intel and the person who deployed it can see who jumped in.
...
-á |
bubble trout
Sky Fighters
182
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Posted - 2014.01.30 14:57:00 -
[58] - Quote
lol ccp you dun ****** |
Trinkets friend
Rules of Acquisition
Acquisition Of Empire
1394
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Posted - 2014.01.30 15:05:00 -
[59] - Quote
HAHAHAHAHAHa
What a gigantic douche dildo of an idea. Let's make a deployable which is used for sov carrier ratting carebears anchorble in w-space.
how about it requires sov to anchor.
This, honestly, will be the end of wormholes. Already I get more PVP than most of the know-nothing useless gusset stains who QQ on here, but that's because the ESS isn't widespread knowledge. Soon even one as mighty as I will have to settle for <20 kills a month, mostly in dullsec, when every idiot and his alt can anchor an ESS on any and all wormholes.
Cheeses, CCP. Get with the program you dullards.
YOLO is the Carpe Diem of Gen Y
http://www.localectomy.blogspot.com.au
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Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings
Situation: Normal
2009
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Posted - 2014.01.30 15:10:00 -
[60] - Quote
Atlantis Fuanan wrote:Didn't Chitsa has written some pages ago that this was redirected to CCP?
Yes and that is great that it got noticed by someone on the CSM. It also takes almost no time to fill out an in game bug report and I would recommend everyone doing that as well.
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