From the recruitment channel:

Channel MOTD changed to "Welcome to the recruitment channel....No scamming is allowed in this channel and this includes, but not limited to, using the recruitment channel as a platform to find or target players to scam. As per subject, we ask everyone to use their best judgment before contracting assets or ISK as part of corporationGÇÖs recruitment process and any deals made or finalized outside this channel are done at your own risk and responsibility. An additional recruitment source is the Alliance and Corporation Recruitment Center section of the forums. by GM Thunder

First wardecs are basically made useless, insurance is removed for gankers, and now this? How long until PVP flags?

From the recruitment channel:

Channel MOTD changed to "Welcome to the recruitment channel....No scamming is allowed in this channel and this includes, but not limited to, using the recruitment channel as a platform to find or target players to scam. As per subject, we ask everyone to use their best judgment before contracting assets or ISK as part of corporationGÇÖs recruitment process and any deals made or finalized outside this channel are done at your own risk and responsibility. An additional recruitment source is the Alliance and Corporation Recruitment Center section of the forums. by GM Thunder

First wardecs are basically made useless, insurance is removed for gankers, and now this? How long until PVP flags?

If you're scamming someone for 500 million ISK, he's not a newbie.

noobs cry ccp listen

This is limited to the recruitment channel, and not outside of it. No big deal, pretty good policy as usually only new players use it.


Misleading title is misleading.

From the recruitment channel:

Channel MOTD changed to "Welcome to the recruitment channel....No scamming is allowed in this channel and this includes, but not limited to, using the recruitment channel as a platform to find or target players to scam. As per subject, we ask everyone to use their best judgment before contracting assets or ISK as part of corporationGÇÖs recruitment process and any deals made or finalized outside this channel are done at your own risk and responsibility. An additional recruitment source is the Alliance and Corporation Recruitment Center section of the forums. by GM Thunder

First wardecs are basically made useless, insurance is removed for gankers, and now this? How long until PVP flags?

GSF

GSF

Puts popcorn in the microwave waiting for an official Goon response.

From the recruitment channel:

Channel MOTD changed to "Welcome to the recruitment channel....No scamming is allowed in this channel and this includes, but not limited to, using the recruitment channel as a platform to find or target players to scam. As per subject, we ask everyone to use their best judgment before contracting assets or ISK as part of corporationGÇÖs recruitment process and any deals made or finalized outside this channel are done at your own risk and responsibility. An additional recruitment source is the Alliance and Corporation Recruitment Center section of the forums. by GM Thunder

First wardecs are basically made useless, insurance is removed for gankers, and now this? How long until PVP flags?

Goons are screwed now then...oh wait im sure Mittani can talk to hilmar and get special treatment...

Reading comprehension is not one of your strong suits.

This is limited to the recruitment channel, and not outside of it. No big deal, pretty good policy as usually only new players use it.


Misleading title is misleading.

From the recruitment channel:

Channel MOTD changed to "Welcome to the recruitment channel....No scamming is allowed in this channel and this includes, but not limited to, using the recruitment channel as a platform to find or target players to scam. As per subject, we ask everyone to use their best judgment before contracting assets or ISK as part of corporationGÇÖs recruitment process and any deals made or finalized outside this channel are done at your own risk and responsibility. An additional recruitment source is the Alliance and Corporation Recruitment Center section of the forums. by GM Thunder

First wardecs are basically made useless, insurance is removed for gankers, and now this? How long until PVP flags?

Maybe they're trying to retain subscribers?

No way. That will cause griefers to feel as if they are not wanted and they will not subscribe.

New Goons discover fairly quickly that posting recruitment ads in the Recruitment channel doesn't work (apparently there are a bunch of players who literally do nothing in game but sit and wait for Goons to be mentioned so they can cry about us scamming them to other players) so we just have them look for dumb people looking for a corp and then convo them privately. Business has been good lately.

One of our newer members scammed 500 million from some pubbie within 30 minutes of joining Goonwaffe.

He's a goddamn Goon hero.

Hmm, Test tears taste like Goon tears, interesting.

I support CCP's decision on this matter!

EVE Online is refreshing mainly in that you can be anti-social and scam, attack, extort, bully, etc, other players without facing repercussions to your account (ie, bans and closures). EVE Online is player driven, and thus, all consequences to a scammer come from the EVE Online community, not the producers of EVE Online.

However, because certain groups *coughahemGOONSANDTESTALLIANCEcoughahem* abuse these privileges, many other impressionable players who may not be so good at choosing role models follow suite, and there are now a plethora of "tear collection" hi-sec griefer-corps. Considering that most new players don't even make it 1 year in large part due to scammers, griefers, and the all-around anti-social and abusive play environment that (a minority) of players create for those around them, CCP has to walk on a fine line and uphold a delicate balance, bearing in mind that any given griefernoob can cancel their account/s at any given time, despite CCP doing everything they can to allow the griefing. On the other hand, many players close their accounts due to griefing.

From a business perspective, right now CCP needs to focus on retaining new players, and a big part of that is making EVE "user friendly".

For additional perspective: There are 20,000 trial accounts created each month. EVE gains how many subscribers each month..?

Also:

some people cannot read.

Irony tickles me pink, and you just made my day. Thank you for that.

I support CCP's decision on this matter!

EVE Online is refreshing mainly in that you can be anti-social and scam, attack, extort, bully, etc, other players without facing repercussions to your account (ie, bans and closures). EVE Online is player driven, and thus, all consequences to a scammer come from the EVE Online community, not the producers of EVE Online.

However, because certain groups *coughahemGOONSANDTESTALLIANCEcoughahem* abuse these privileges, many other impressionable players who may not be so good at choosing role models follow suite, and there are now a plethora of "tear collection" hi-sec griefer-corps. Considering that most new players don't even make it 1 year in large part due to scammers, griefers, and the all-around anti-social and abusive play environment that (a minority) of players create for those around them, CCP has to walk on a fine line and uphold a delicate balance, bearing in mind that any given griefernoob can cancel their account/s at any given time, despite CCP doing everything they can to allow the griefing. On the other hand, many players close their accounts due to griefing.

From a business perspective, right now CCP needs to focus on retaining new players, and a big part of that is making EVE "user friendly".

For additional perspective: There are 20,000 trial accounts created each month. EVE gains how many subscribers each month..?

Also:

lol you think this is going to stop recruitment scams.

"we ask everyone to use their best judgment before contracting assets or ISK as part of corporationGÇÖs recruitment process and any deals made or finalized outside this channel are done at your own risk and responsibility."

Wow, wasn't aware this was Hello Kitty online, I must be in the wrong foru... oh, nope, this is EVE.

Huh. That's pretty freaking stupid. What were the CSM thinking not throwing a fit about...

Oh, they weren't consulted. At all. Of course not.


Apparently CEO Hello Kitty (throw in a "mar" there if you want, I couldn't find a spot that made sense) is unaware of what game he's actually in charge of. Wouldn't surprise me, based on how out of touch he and the upper reaches of CCP are nowadays.

What's next, being mean to each other will be bannable? Calling someone an idiot in local will get you Concorded? Oh, Oh, I know, lets just disable targeting other player ships from the hours of 12 PM to 11 AM Icelandic time, that'll make sure there's a good experience for everyone, right?

No vision, no direction, no clue. CCP 2011.

Wow, wasn't aware this was Hello Kitty online, I must be in the wrong foru... oh, nope, this is EVE.

Huh. That's pretty freaking stupid. What were the CSM thinking not throwing a fit about...

Oh, they weren't consulted. At all. Of course not.


Apparently CEO Hello Kitty (throw in a "mar" there if you want, I couldn't find a spot that made sense) is unaware of what game he's actually in charge of. Wouldn't surprise me, based on how out of touch he and the upper reaches of CCP are nowadays.

What's next, being mean to each other will be bannable? Calling someone an idiot in local will get you Concorded? Oh, Oh, I know, lets just disable targeting other player ships from the hours of 12 PM to 11 AM Icelandic time, that'll make sure there's a good experience for everyone, right?

No vision, no direction, no clue. CCP 2011.

Reading comprehension. Get some.

lol you still think this is going to stop recruitment scams.

It's one thing to make an honest error in judgement, but now you're just being willfully ignorant.

Okay show me where CCP has said that recruitment scams are now against the ToS and I'll apologize for my ignorance. Here's a hint: It's not in the Recruitment channel MOTD.

It's one thing to make an honest error in judgement, but now you're just being willfully ignorant.

I miss the part where I said anything about CCP making recruitment scams against the ToS.

Yet another who did not read the important part of the post mentioning that recruitment scams outside of the official help channel are still allowed.

Reading comprehension. Get some.



Good for CCP, I'm glad they posted that. I'm sure it chaffes the Goons, but I've said for years: The Goons are no good for EVE, anyway.



Your rhetoric is pretty weak. and your bias is obvious. 4/10

CCP is not "out of touch". Quite the opposite: They are in-touch with the market and the new players that are flooding into EVE, but for some reason, not sticking around. CCP is trying to retain players. Unfortunately for Goonswarm (the stated mission of which is to grief people until they quit playing...) this may not fit their agenda and desires.

Then why do you keep insisting that the MOTD in the Recruitment channel is going to end recruitment scamming? You are not making any sense.

You are very vocal and opinionated for a 3 day old character in an NPC Corp.

Sssh! The more idiot pubbies that believe otherwise, the easier the marks are.

:themoreyouknow:

Can you please point out where I claimed that the MoTD in the Recruitment Channel is going to end recruitment scamming?

Again, I'll wait. :)

You made this post. I replied with "lol you think this is going to stop recruitment scamming". You started posting a bunch of incoherent nonsense.

It shouldn't be so difficult to get your point across. Considering how much you are struggling you might want to practice a bit more.

Goons are screwed now then...oh wait im sure Mittani can talk to hilmar and get special treatment...

Crossposted due to mod oppression.

The only reason I play Eve is because the interactions between players are direct and all have impacts, everything from scams to ganking. While there is a disadvantage to some players, Eve is a better game with this. If CCP feels the right path is to hold everyone's hands and make nobody feel sad or upset, then Eve is dead. I will not hesitate to move on, and I'm sure others will feel the same way.

playing eve is now a bannable offence

You can still make recruitment scams, just not in an official in-game channel made by CCP. Shouldn't be too difficult.

No scamming is allowed in this channel and this includes, but not limited to, using the recruitment channel as a platform to find or target players to scam.

Wow, wasn't aware this was Hello Kitty online, I must be in the wrong foru... oh, nope, this is EVE.

Huh. That's pretty freaking stupid. What were the CSM thinking not throwing a fit about...

Oh, they weren't consulted. At all. Of course not.


Apparently CEO Hello Kitty (throw in a "mar" there if you want, I couldn't find a spot that made sense) is unaware of what game he's actually in charge of. Wouldn't surprise me, based on how out of touch he and the upper reaches of CCP are nowadays.

What's next, being mean to each other will be bannable? Calling someone an idiot in local will get you Concorded? Oh, Oh, I know, lets just disable targeting other player ships from the hours of 12 PM to 11 AM Icelandic time, that'll make sure there's a good experience for everyone, right?

No vision, no direction, no clue. CCP 2011.

Crossposted due to mod oppression.

The only reason I play Eve is because the interactions between players are direct and all have impacts, everything from scams to ganking. While there is a disadvantage to some players, Eve is a better game with this. If CCP feels the right path is to hold everyone's hands and make nobody feel sad or upset, then Eve is dead. I will not hesitate to move on, and I'm sure others will feel the same way.

Nope.

You see someone is looking for a corp in the channel, you privately message them about it and scam them. According to the wording of this, you just broke the rules and (presumably) get banned/some other punishment. Instead, you have to find the players through some other means and just hope you both weren't in the Recruitment channel at the same time, otherwise you'll probably get petitioned.

Obviously, its not going to end recruitment scamming. But to say it only applies to things within the recruitment channel is somewhere between outright denial and illiteracy.

I am enjoying this enthralling discussion. Please continue.

Crossposted due to mod oppression.

The only reason I play Eve is because the interactions between players are direct and all have impacts, everything from scams to ganking. While there is a disadvantage to some players, Eve is a better game with this. If CCP feels the right path is to hold everyone's hands and make nobody feel sad or upset, then Eve is dead. I will not hesitate to move on, and I'm sure others will feel the same way.

I often enter a trance-like state when I'm posting.

And go where exactly?

Tbh if everybody that's made this threat in the last 3 months actually left, the Mental age of the EVE community would increase by 15-20 years. Minimum.

And go where exactly?

Tbh if everybody that's made this threat in the last 3 months actually left, the Mental age of the EVE community would increase by 15-20 years. Minimum.

At some point CCP is going to have to stop being horrible just because there aren't any other internet spaceship sandbox games out there. I had hoped that they had realized this but with recent changes in tone I'm starting to have my doubts.

Why? Because you and the rest of the whiney Deklein cry babies might quit?

You'd have to unsub Harlot and no-one will get to see your marvelllous insight into ALL matters Eve.

I often enter a trance-like state when I'm posting.

Your rage inspires me. Never stop posting.

see your marvelllous insight into ALL matters Eve

I personally disagree with the practice of recruitment scamming, but it is perfectly within the spirit and soul of EVE to do so.

Myxx's post is the best post in this thread. Scamming is a part of EVE-Life, don't screw it up. It would be like getting rid of ganking or pirating, its just another aspect that is a part of EVE's character.

Confused? Scamming wasn't made illegal and nor will it be.

And CCP agrees.

They have not stopped the practice in the game in any way whatsoever.

They have stopped it in one channel. Theirs. And they can do whatever they want with their own channel as can anyone else in the game who makes a channel.

Mr Epeen

Confused? Scamming wasn't made illegal and nor will it be.

The problem is that they shouldn't do that, and it is liable to cause people to use it as justification for the outlawing of scamming altogether. Its the slippery slope effect.

Whats next? Cant scam in local? Can only scam people who have played longer than five months?

Come on, this change is bullshit and everyone knows it.

I come only to

Are you a cat? Do I know you? Are you important? Does your opinion matter? I wonder what all these questions have in common.

The problem is that they shouldn't do that, and it is liable to cause people to use it as justification for the outlawing of scamming altogether. Its the slippery slope effect.

Whats next? Cant scam in local? Can only scam people who have played longer than five months?

Come on, this change is bullshit and everyone knows it.

Speaking of cats, whatever happened to Cat?
How was it that she signed posts again?
x lol or something like that?

Got you posting. Working as intended.

You say its a logical fallacy and therefore a null argument

I say you should HTFU because scamming is a part of EVE and im tired of CCP coddling new players.

I'm a Goon. I don't need the inspiration of raging pubbies to get me to post.

Your rage inspires me. Never stop posting.

I never said I don't enjoy it just that I don't require it.

omfgiamlaughingsohard. You still haven't worked out I'm trollin' you yet?

Keep bringing it Goon. I'm ice mining so this is filling my heart while I'm filling my hold.

How long until PVP flags?

Remember you can still recruit for local and scam there.

New Goons discover fairly quickly that posting recruitment ads in the Recruitment channel doesn't work (apparently there are a bunch of players who literally do nothing in game but sit and wait for Goons to be mentioned so they can cry about us scamming them to other players) so we just have them look for dumb people looking for a corp and then convo them privately. Business has been good lately.

this is my personall experience twice when i tried to join goons.

this is my personall experience twice when i tried to join goons. so as this is a sad practice for a alliance i can see who good it works. anyone looking to join them know this the only way the recruit is from a website forum that they charge you to be a member of. i for one wouldnt pay them to join a forum, a few friends of mine joined and paid and had the same results.

Twice? TWICE? Heavenly mother have you ever heard of GOOGLE? Take five seconds and google: Goon Recruitment. Read the wiki. Jesus christ you people deserve to be scammed... Also, shift keys, use them.

This does not protect noobies. Noobies are not scammed because they have nothing of value. This is only protecting people who have atleast 500 million ISK and are dumb enough to fall for a recruitment scam.

this is my personall experience twice when i tried to join goons.

For a "swarm" mentality alliance not much collective happening.

On one hand you have Mrs. Harlot proclaiming "bigdeal", "who cares", "won't make any difference" and then there is you screaming "Hello Kitty", "idiot - Concorded".

ffs Goons, at LEAST reach a consenus. Maybe you need The Mittani to write a press release for you?

/me shakes his head in wonder at the phenomena called "Goons".

If you're scamming someone for 500 million ISK, he's not a newbie.

I will not hesitate to move on, and I'm sure others will feel the same way.

Only Mass Effect is better than Eve: Online, you see

Goons are an insignificant part of EVE now.

The beatings will continue until morale improves.

One of our newer members scammed 500 million from some pubbie within 30 minutes of joining Goonwaffe.

He's a goddamn Goon hero.

Maybe they're trying to lose subscribers?

Only Mass Effect is better than Eve: Online, you see

Some food for discussion:

1. Is it considered a bad thing if the official recruitment channel itself is considered a scam free zone? Given that there's no wider ban against tricking people with recruitment offers elsewhere?
2. Does this take from the free form, fend-for-yourself, nature of EVE any more than let's say...the ban on character trade scams in the Character Bazaar forum or the sanctions against harvesting n00b tears in starter systems with free stuff?

I'm not taking a stance on this topic, only trying to help those who make these decisions better understand your views on these matters.

I can tell you that the sandbox is sacred in our minds here at CCP, but that there is also an understanding that sometimes, lines need to be drawn around certain limited areas for the overall good of the game. My feeling is that most would probably agree with that statement, although I'm sure there are also those who feel that CCP should maintain a complete hands off approach.

Let's discuss.

WELCOME TO EVE

You will be scammed. After 60 days of paid subscription time, you will be credited 50m isk into your wallet. This is all you'll get. Scams in eve are a feature, not a bug. Consider this your warning, and in 60 days you'll get reimbursed a reasonable amount of isk. That is all.

Some food for discussion:

1. Is it considered a bad thing if the official recruitment channel itself is considered a scam free zone? Given that there's no wider ban against tricking people with recruitment offers elsewhere?
2. Does this take from the free form, fend-for-yourself, nature of EVE any more than let's say...the ban on character trade scams in the Character Bazaar forum or the sanctions against harvesting n00b tears in starter systems with free stuff?

I'm not taking a stance on this topic, only trying to help those who make these decisions better understand your views on these matters.

I can tell you that the sandbox is sacred in our minds here at CCP, but that there is also an understanding that sometimes, lines need to be drawn around certain limited areas for the overall good of the game. My feeling is that most would probably agree with that statement, although I'm sure there are also those who feel that CCP should maintain a complete hands off approach.

Let's discuss.

Yeah let's lock the thread with good well thought out posts (by zagdul f.i.) and redirect to this old steaming pile of *****, good call there CCP Phantom, and by that I mean you're terrible, especially considering you locked it right after CCP Guard said "Let's discuss".

.

Bad Phantom

Good Guard.

Forum natzi's in regards to duplicate threads need to figure out that it hasn't gone away in 8+ years, they have never been able to be vigilant enough to stop it all the time. If they persist in the stupidity, I've no problem reporting every thread that could be considered a 'duplicate', but I guarantee they won't have time to lock them all, and there'll be like 12 threads left on the forum that are active.

Some food for discussion:

1. Is it considered a bad thing if the official recruitment channel itself is considered a scam free zone? Given that there's no wider ban against tricking people with recruitment offers elsewhere?
2. Does this take from the free form, fend-for-yourself, nature of EVE any more than let's say...the ban on character trade scams in the Character Bazaar forum or the sanctions against harvesting n00b tears in starter systems with free stuff?

I'm not taking a stance on this topic, only trying to help those who make these decisions better understand your views on these matters.

I can tell you that the sandbox is sacred in our minds here at CCP, but that there is also an understanding that sometimes, lines need to be drawn around certain limited areas for the overall good of the game. My feeling is that most would probably agree with that statement, although I'm sure there are also those who feel that CCP should maintain a complete hands off approach.

Let's discuss.

The main currency in EvE is not ISK or AUR, its trust. In a player run channel I have to trust that the people running the channel are going to uphold the rules, that they're not colluding with scammers to take my money. Those people have to earn my trust either directly or through the opinions of other people I already trust. In a CCP run channel where scamming is banned it completely removes trust from the equation. Nobody has to work for my trust because it is provided for them by CCP.

This is why this change is stupid.

So, I have no issue if CCP decided we couldn't recruitment scam people who are less than a month old, or have less than 1m SP. But protecting the 5 year old player who is stupid enough to contract me his faction fit BS and tengu is beyond me.

Some food for discussion:

1. Is it considered a bad thing if the official recruitment channel itself is considered a scam free zone? Given that there's no wider ban against tricking people with recruitment offers elsewhere?
2. Does this take from the free form, fend-for-yourself, nature of EVE any more than let's say...the ban on character trade scams in the Character Bazaar forum or the sanctions against harvesting n00b tears in starter systems with free stuff?

I'm not taking a stance on this topic, only trying to help those who make these decisions better understand your views on these matters.

I can tell you that the sandbox is sacred in our minds here at CCP, but that there is also an understanding that sometimes, lines need to be drawn around certain limited areas for the overall good of the game. My feeling is that most would probably agree with that statement, although I'm sure there are also those who feel that CCP should maintain a complete hands off approach.

Let's discuss.

Given the choice between a CCP-approved 'no scamming allowed' channel and other venues where they are open to scams, every player looking for a new corp will choose the safe option. There won't be anyone looking for a new corp in local, or in an unofficial channel, because CCP has provided a recruitment channel which caters to all their needs and is a guaranteed safe haven from scamming. Remember, risk versus reward: why would a player looking for a new corp choose the unsafe option when it provides no advantage? And why would a corp legitimately seeking out new players advertise in an unsafe channel rather than the CCP-approved no scamming zone?

Just out of curiosity, what do you to members who get successfully scammed and someone proves this with evidence...

Not trolling, just want to know whether it's a slap on the wrists or a kick in the ass...or something more sinister involving a shovel and duct tape.

AK

this makes no sense to me.
"if given the choice" indicates a knowledge of the fact that scamming happens in EVE, in which case a scam-free channel is a moot point since the entire idea of a scam free channel is to protect those who don't know any better.

So basically, if I ever visit the recruitment channel, I can forever petition to have any recruitment scams reversed, because I can just claim that the scammers used it to know that I wanted a corp?

and ? This concerns you how ?

Its just more pointless work for GMs.

Now now, my comment is here and the discussion has been streamlined to one thread.

I'd like to hear if people have any comments on my post which is quoted above.