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Chimion
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Posted - 2006.04.01 20:04:00 -
[1]
Is there a simple way to stop someone just setting an order 1 under my price is? Can I make it automatic somehow?
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Pluppo
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Posted - 2006.04.01 20:37:00 -
[2]
No, it is not possible to keep lowering your buying price automatically.
There are certain things you can do:
- You can get the daytrading skill, that allows you to change the price remotely.
- If the order is in another region which you don't want to visit all the time, you can use an alt to place the order for you.
- When buying regionwide, you can sell back the stuff you bought in places you don't really want to go to, such as pirate infested low sec systems  .
Red Frog Investments |
Beldaws
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Posted - 2006.04.01 22:37:00 -
[3]
Be glad they are only undercutting you by 1 isk. It's the ones that undercut me by thousands or millions that upset me. 1 isk or .01 isk undercuts keep the prices higher for a longer period of time.
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Nimie
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Posted - 2006.04.02 02:04:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Nimie on 02/04/2006 02:07:24
never really seen many million undercutters. they're probaly people that think the current price is too high to sell well and is realigning price.
to the op, it's part of the business. there's nothing you can do but price mod more often and price mod faster.
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Lily Savage
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Posted - 2006.04.02 05:40:00 -
[5]
It's bloody annoying, isn't it? I wish they'd wise up, and sell for the same price, in a different station in the same system - there's normally plenty of sales to go round.
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Nimie
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Posted - 2006.04.02 08:09:00 -
[6]
that usually hurts you more than helps.
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Kaladr
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Posted - 2006.04.02 11:22:00 -
[7]
My expierience with 1ISK undercutters is they're low volume. Most high volume producers have a set of fixed prices and don't go into 0.01 ISK games.
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EVE-Central.com | Obsidian Technologies - Manufacturing, Defense and Logistics. We're hiring! Mail me |
Anfelina Adante
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Posted - 2006.04.03 10:58:00 -
[8]
^^
I agree. Seems to me that it is people getting rid of loot.
Serious undercutters go for a percentage drop.
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Paigan
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Posted - 2006.04.03 11:46:00 -
[9]
1 isk undercutters are indeed annoying.
Maybe there should be some ingame market police (economiv division of concord or whatever) you can report those people to if they keep doing it again and again over a longer period of time.
Same goes for escrow spams etc.
No "they are stupid people, ban them!" out of game, but a "Makret concord warns you to stop your disturbing actions".
But that's probably too much work for the devs.
The other thing, when someone really has a - maybe annoying, too - cheaper price (thousands, millions), it's no spiteful price dropping or whatever, they're simnply cheaper.
For example if the average price for Perc+3 in onen region is 28mil, but i'm already comfortable with getting 26 or 27, then i don't hesitate to offer them for that price. (Especially if there are many other regions where the price is around 25-27).
That's market.
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This game is still in beta stage |
Matthew
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Posted - 2006.04.03 11:52:00 -
[10]
 Originally by: Lily Savage
It's bloody annoying, isn't it? I wish they'd wise up, and sell for the same price, in a different station in the same system - there's normally plenty of sales to go round.
That's not true. Quite often there is one "hot" station in a system where the majority of trade occurs. Selling in that station over another one in the same system can often attract premium prices, simply through people's laziness. What makes a station "hot" can vary - sometimes it's the only one with the full spread of facilities in the system, other times it's the one with the decent agents in it. Sometimes it's just the one where the main producer has set up.
The "laziness effect" also varies according to what it is you're selling, and who you're selling to. Rich Level 4 mission runners seem willing to throw masses of isk away to save having to jump in a hauler to fetch supplies, while if you're sat in a newbie system, they're probably more willing to move around a bit to get cheaper stuff. Similarly, bulky stuff will attract more premium than small stuff.
Location is just as important as what you produce and how much you charge for it.
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There is no magic Wand of Fixing, and it is not powered by forum whines. |
Jenny Spitfire
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Posted - 2006.04.03 12:18:00 -
[11]
Solution: Sell as low as possible, then the 0.01 or 1 ISKs cut will disappear. 
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RecruitMe@NOINT! |
Vily
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Posted - 2006.04.03 14:25:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Matthew
Originally by: Lily Savage
It's bloody annoying, isn't it? I wish they'd wise up, and sell for the same price, in a different station in the same system - there's normally plenty of sales to go round.
That's not true. Quite often there is one "hot" station in a system where the majority of trade occurs. Selling in that station over another one in the same system can often attract premium prices, simply through people's laziness. What makes a station "hot" can vary - sometimes it's the only one with the full spread of facilities in the system, other times it's the one with the decent agents in it. Sometimes it's just the one where the main producer has set up.
The "laziness effect" also varies according to what it is you're selling, and who you're selling to. Rich Level 4 mission runners seem willing to throw masses of isk away to save having to jump in a hauler to fetch supplies, while if you're sat in a newbie system, they're probably more willing to move around a bit to get cheaper stuff. Similarly, bulky stuff will attract more premium than small stuff.
Location is just as important as what you produce and how much you charge for it.
Quoted for absolute truth.
I started manufacturing like 8 months ago and have effectively created the hub station in the system i operate out of by providing just about every item that can be produced. I know 80-90% of the trade in that system happens there because its a one-stop shop.
The annoying thing is when people come and undercut me. 99% of the time i've found with undercutters though is that they dont last long. In general they will have 1 sell order up and when it finished they won't refill it for weeks if at all. If I was already making a good margin on the item, i dont mind undercutting them back a bit, but most often, their orders will sell in a day or two so i just wait them out.
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Sub rose
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Posted - 2006.04.03 15:12:00 -
[13]
If they keep undercutting you then keep undercutting them in return and push them as low as you can. When they'll go no further buy all their stock, cancel your own order, then put them back on at normal price. Of course this can work the other way around too so you might want to cancel your original order first and only undercut with a fraction of your total sell goods incase it backfires.
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Heikki
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Posted - 2006.04.03 15:58:00 -
[14]
As mentioned, there is no automatic way; selling stuff is a mini-career and takes some time.
How to react depends on situation. For now, lets assume you're a fellow mass producing items (be it T1 or T2):
1) Someone undercuts you with low amount of items:
- The seller is probably getting rid of his extra items. You should just ignore it; you can't compete with loot sellers.
2) It's another mass producer; effectively starting price war with you. So to maximize your revenues, you could:
a) Buy one item to find out who is, and contact him to offer some mutually benefitical deal to keep price up (usually kind of cartel pact), or
b) If you visit the station often, just go on with the price war, offering arcticle for 1 ISK less than him, or
c) If you're only seldomly in that area, you gotta bid a lot lower than him, or
d) Give up the price war; start producing another product, move to different station, or find a new career.
Anyway, price wars, even if it's cutting by 0.01 ISK, are good for Eve in the whole (keep prices efficient, give some challenge to PvP traders etc).
-Lasse
always running out of free sell order slots in Agil
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Erfnam
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Posted - 2006.04.03 18:05:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Sub rose
If they keep undercutting you then keep undercutting them in return and push them as low as you can. When they'll go no further buy all their stock, cancel your own order, then put them back on at normal price. Of course this can work the other way around too so you might want to cancel your original order first and only undercut with a fraction of your total sell goods incase it backfires.
This doesn't work. I've had some one try to do this to me. They bought my entire stock when it hit 8-9% margin and then immediately put it all back up on sale for 15-20% margin. As soon as that happened, I put up the next batch for sale, leaving them with their inventory plus whatever they bought from me.
As some one else stated, the best way to avoid getting undercut is to put things on market at a reasonable markup. A big margin is very inviting.
Recruiting
Templi Cube Productions Share IPO |
Angelina Starchild
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Posted - 2006.04.03 21:35:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Beldaws
Be glad they are only undercutting you by 1 isk. It's the ones that undercut me by thousands or millions that upset me. 1 isk or .01 isk undercuts keep the prices higher for a longer period of time.
I don't know about the rest of Eve's playerbase, but for me, when I put something up for alot less than the highest sell order,which I quite often do, there is a very good reason - I want my stuff to get sold really fast. Maybe for a less mark-up than I could. I find liquidity being a good thing.
However, this is only when it comes to very small quantities.
-
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Katrena's Fury
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Posted - 2006.04.03 23:49:00 -
[17]
What a bunch of bloody whiners! We aren't under cutters we are your competition. We knock our price down by a penny to sell our warez before you do. I don't care if you don't sell your inventory. I am going to sell MINE. If our tactics irritate you, then you move out of our territory!
Why should I sell mine at the same price as yours and wait till after yours have sold when I can sell at virtually the same price (pennies less) and sell my stuff NOW?
This isn't kindergarten; this is EVE!
If the market is too rough on you, go do what all the other failed producers do and go to 0.0. Any two tugs can shoot at each other! Mastering the market isn't as easy as hitting F1, F2, F3 and F4. 
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TheDevilsJury
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Posted - 2006.04.04 03:51:00 -
[18]
its easy to avoid this. Just price low enough to begin with. If you're dealing with another volume seller, just be able to function at lower profit margins. If you're dealing with someone selling their loot (non-volume only), there are no problems, just push the price down then buy it yourself. Doesn't work when you're up against another volume seller, as pointed out.
Daytrading helps but also skills that increase your margin (broker relations is the big one here).
What I think this really hurts are the producers who don't have very high trade skills. Being in an undercutting war as a producer hurts a lot because you have expenses that you've already incurred. As a trader its easier to "suck up" these lower-than-expected profits.
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A proud fan of Nanofibers + Afterburners. Speed Kills.
I'm a guy. Don't just look at the avatar and call me "she". |
Harisdrop
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Posted - 2006.04.04 18:07:00 -
[19]
I hate the people that wanted to introduce the hundreth to the isk. it use to be 1.1 no hundredth no cent. But the miners felt the need to make thier 1.09 value. Curse the forum people of night.
--------------------------
I have big balls of Plasma coming out of my guns.
Come chat eveteamspeak.com
RSS |
Ki Shodan
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Posted - 2006.04.04 18:16:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Erfnam
This doesn't work. I've had some one try to do this to me. They bought my entire stock when it hit 8-9% margin and then immediately put it all back up on sale for 15-20% margin. As soon as that happened, I put up the next batch for sale, leaving them with their inventory plus whatever they bought from me.
As some one else stated, the best way to avoid getting undercut is to put things on market at a reasonable markup. A big margin is very inviting.
Well, sorry, but this works! I do it quite often myself.
e.g. i bought a batch of about 100 Bestowers, 20% under my Price, and resold them at my price. Of course not instantly and my money was tied, but i did not need to care about bestower production for 2 month, saved me a lot of time and a free broduction slots for other things.
Of course, if you like to have lots of money lying arround, you got to sell fast and have to undercut, but there is only a certain amount of an item that will change hands no matter how hard you undercut.
And of course buying up a low price stock will not always work. eg. if the low price seller can refill his orders fast you might be screwed.
In General:
If undercutting is a problem for you, move away from competion and main hubs.
--
bye, Ki Shodan
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Securus
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Posted - 2006.04.04 18:53:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Beldaws
Be glad they are only undercutting you by 1 isk. It's the ones that undercut me by thousands or millions that upset me. 1 isk or .01 isk undercuts keep the prices higher for a longer period of time.
I agree. When someone undercuts my order by 0.01 ISK, I think it's great. No-one has a divine right to sell their stuff first, and if someone wants to be on top they have to keep checking.
I've seen the value of items torn to shreds in days by absurd undercutting, whereas if they did it by 0.01, they could duel it out without affecting the price by any significant margin. I see a similar thing where I'm selling 100 items versus 10,000 and they have adjusted their price to beat mine. They don't seem to notice how much they are losing per unit compared to me. The same thing happens on auction sites; complete loss of perspective in a mad rush to "win."
________________________________________
"Fere libenter homines id quod volunt credunt." |
Prof Higgins
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Posted - 2006.04.05 11:34:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Ki Shodan
e.g. i bought a batch of about 100 Bestowers, 20% under my Price, and resold them at my price. Of course not instantly and my money was tied, but i did not need to care about bestower production for 2 month, saved me a lot of time and a free broduction slots for other things.
Of course, if you like to have lots of money lying arround, you got to sell fast and have to undercut, but there is only a certain amount of an item that will change hands no matter how hard you undercut.
And of course buying up a low price stock will not always work. eg. if the low price seller can refill his orders fast you might be screwed.
Agreed. I have a local who constantly undercuts me by selling a few jumps away at 3 - 5 % over cost. I just treat him as a supplier and buy enough units from him to ensure I have the market covered when ever his stock has sold out. He doesn't produce in high enough volume to saturate the market and so doesn't skew the regional price for any length of time. I look forwards to seeing his sell orders hitting the market.
Buying a few of his items is a no brainer profit medium scale investment as I see it. If the worse came to the worse I might actually have to get my but out of the station and haul the things elsewhere.
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Neue Regel
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Posted - 2006.04.05 19:49:00 -
[23]
Well, I fight this when I buy my items. Many of you might think I am nuts. But if I am looking for module 'abc' on the market and there are people selling the items but only one of them and low balling, I look for someone who is selling volume just above them in price and buy from them. That way the ones that are looking for the quick sell get passed up by me, and I buy from the one that is manufacturing.
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Tsunami Tenyo
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Posted - 2006.04.05 20:53:00 -
[24]
lol I know what you all mean. How ever I have a perfect solution. I set up my operation for about a monoth and selling 1 mill profits on each sell of a carcal. I have lv 5 production effeciency so. What I did was. to reallllly **** the 1 isk undercutters. I made it so I only made 1 isk profit for like two weeks. True I lost out on alot of potential buisness but the bugger left the area. My refineing and production effecieny was just out of his lege. Muhahahahaha viva La 98% refines and perfect builds muhahahaha.
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Securus
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Posted - 2006.04.05 21:20:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Securus on 05/04/2006 21:20:46
Originally by: Neue Regel
Well, I fight this when I buy my items. Many of you might think I am nuts. But if I am looking for module 'abc' on the market and there are people selling the items but only one of them and low balling, I look for someone who is selling volume just above them in price and buy from them. That way the ones that are looking for the quick sell get passed up by me, and I buy from the one that is manufacturing.
No, they don't.
If the goods are in the same station, only the lowest seller gets the sale, when that's gone it goes onto the next one. You can't buy from a specific order out of many in the same station. In fact, the "low baller" gets the higher price.
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"Fere libenter homines id quod volunt credunt." |
Tsunami Tenyo
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Posted - 2006.04.05 21:33:00 -
[26]
I am sure that you can buy from the more expensive sell in the same station. I am preaty sure you can. It maybe because I ahve got the skills. I don't know. I will re look my skill decriptions how ever I am totally sure you can. Also I would like to form a Trader/Manufactureing Union for players ups. Plz read my thread on it hehe.
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Securus
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Posted - 2006.04.05 21:52:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Securus on 05/04/2006 21:52:22
Originally by: Tsunami Tenyo
I am sure that you can buy from the more expensive sell in the same station. I am preaty sure you can. It maybe because I ahve got the skills. I don't know. I will re look my skill decriptions how ever I am totally sure you can. Also I would like to form a Trader/Manufactureing Union for players ups. Plz read my thread on it hehe.
You can buy from them, but the lowest seller gets the money and the sale. Try it with some Tritanium.
________________________________________
"Fere libenter homines id quod volunt credunt." |
Gwyntar
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Posted - 2006.04.05 23:30:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Securus
Edited by: Securus on 05/04/2006 08:54:56
I agree. When someone undercuts my order by 0.01 ISK, I think it's great. No-one has a divine right to sell their stuff first, and if someone wants to be on top they have to keep checking.
I've seen the value of items torn to shreds in days by absurd undercutting, whereas if they did it by 0.01, they could duel it out without affecting the price by any significant margin. I see a similar thing where I'm selling 100 items versus 10,000 and they have adjusted their price to beat mine. They don't seem to notice how much they are losing compared to me. The same thing happens on auction sites; complete loss of perspective in a mad rush to "win."
You should be able to make sales based on your ability to price competively and know where the demand is, rather than your ability to sit at the market screen updating your price by 0.01 ISK every 15 minutes.
People undercut by large amounts when they have better things to do and don't want to play your 0.01 ISK games.
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Securus
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Posted - 2006.04.06 00:01:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Gwyntar
Originally by: Securus
Edited by: Securus on 05/04/2006 08:54:56
I agree. When someone undercuts my order by 0.01 ISK, I think it's great. No-one has a divine right to sell their stuff first, and if someone wants to be on top they have to keep checking.
I've seen the value of items torn to shreds in days by absurd undercutting, whereas if they did it by 0.01, they could duel it out without affecting the price by any significant margin. I see a similar thing where I'm selling 100 items versus 10,000 and they have adjusted their price to beat mine. They don't seem to notice how much they are losing compared to me. The same thing happens on auction sites; complete loss of perspective in a mad rush to "win."
You should be able to make sales based on your ability to price competively and know where the demand is, rather than your ability to sit at the market screen updating your price by 0.01 ISK every 15 minutes.
People undercut by large amounts when they have better things to do and don't want to play your 0.01 ISK games.
They still can.
I'm sorry but you have no right to sell your goods before anyone else. It doesn't matter how much research or effort you put in; competition is part of the market. If you just want to put your stuff on the market at a price of your choosing and do something more interesting that's your problem. And no-one can sit adjusting prices every 15 minutes, even if they can keep the client running in the background.
If you want a quick sale, then set a very low price; there's little point in matching it as it's below the usual price.
________________________________________
"Fere libenter homines id quod volunt credunt." |
Yossar
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Posted - 2006.04.06 07:27:00 -
[30]
I kinda wish that there was a minimum amount you could modify an order relative to other orders. So if you want to place a sell order you can either match the lowest price or beat it by at least 1% or so. That would kind of curb the advantage of people who can log on many times a day and keep beating you by 0.01 isk (mostly an issue on expensive, slow moving items like implants and connections skill books) and reward the person who's the first to market or first to set a good price point.
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