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Ya Rrr	Posted - 2006.04.08 00:32:00 - [1] The Crow is the only frigate that can use short ranged weapons at long ranges with zero penalties for doing so. Yes, rocket range of a crow IS long range. It doesn't matter that they orbit at 11km. It might aswell be 110km. They're outside conventional webifier range and doing full damage. Please explain to me how a Claw kills a Crow 1v1, both ships given a setup budget of 25m ISK. Its not happening. In an interceptor duel it spams rockets from 11km while the opposition is left 2 choices. Sit there and die, or try to escape. I say try because realistically nothing is ever going to outrun a nanofibered Crow. By all means un-nerf T2 rockets but to compensate, get rid of the velocity bonus.
Samirol	Posted - 2006.04.08 00:34:00 - [2] or....use arties/rails?
Ya Rrr	Posted - 2006.04.08 00:38:00 - [3] Originally by: Samirol or....use arties/rails? 250mm Howitzers are gimp. 280mms can't track. The Claw doesn't have the CPU to fit the modules needed to boost its tracking to the point where it might hit something. The Taranis is too slow, a rocket crow will close in for the kill. Only the Ares has the speed and tracking to kill a Crow. But you're missing the point. Rockets are short ranged weapons you shouldn't have to fit long range guns in order to deal with them. It goes: Blasters, Autocannons, Pulses, Rockets Railguns, Arts, Beams, Light Missiles
Samirol	Posted - 2006.04.08 00:40:00 - [4] rails on a claw?
Cmdr Patrick	Posted - 2006.04.08 00:48:00 - [5] Why should anyone tell u, think about it and work it out for yourself.
Grimpak	Posted - 2006.04.08 01:18:00 - [6] erm, while we're at it, CCP plz nerf the exequor. It can carry more than my flycatcher wich is a T2 ship! plzkthx ---------------- Originally by: Abdalion Shoot him ingame if you don't like this person. If you do like him, go mine veldspar with him.
Isonkon Serikain	Posted - 2006.04.08 01:26:00 - [7] rocket launchers should take 2 more grid...really... Ison's notches
Fogy	Posted - 2006.04.08 02:04:00 - [8] well.. there is Barrage S, and webbies... nanocrow's with rockets are easy to kill.. dont know if there is any one stupid enough to use one though.. its the 400mm plae crow's wich are hard imo.. "From my rotting boddy flowers shall grow and I am in them, and that is eternity"
j0sephine	Posted - 2006.04.08 02:06:00 - [9] Edited by: j0sephine on 08/04/2006 02:07:30 "Yes, rocket range of a crow IS long range. It doesn't matter that they orbit at 11km. It might aswell be 110km. They're outside conventional webifier range and doing full damage. " Difference between being at 11 and 110 km is, at 11 km there's plenty weapons which can hit the Crow back. And staying 1 km off webifier range vs a skilled interceptor pilot... good luck with that, really. These ships move at 3-4 km/sec, show me anyone with fast enough reaction time and small enough game client lag to never get 1 km closer to someone with brain between the ears.
twit brent	Posted - 2006.04.08 02:09:00 - [10] Ok whats the range of rockets on a crow? If its less than 13km your more than likely gonna get webbed.
j0sephine	Posted - 2006.04.08 02:16:00 - [11] "Ok whats the range of rockets on a crow?" ~15 km with maxed out all skills, ~12 km with more common lvl.4 across the board. This doesn't take into account acceleration phase and the target's speed though ... which together can either limit rocket range to a few km or as much as double it, if the target is silly and tries to close range by chasing.
Litus Arowar	Posted - 2006.04.08 02:25:00 - [12] I'll eat your rocketcrow for breakfast with my crusader... fit all the nanos you want, fit your MWD, and stay at 13km... then cry when I do higher DPS... and if you don't have a web fitted yourself you're as good as dead the moment you run into a pilot worth the ship he's flying... the standard run of the mill crusader setup with DLBs, MWD, and 20km scram will give crows a run for their money, not to mention some of the more experimental builds I'd be far more worried engaging a 400mm dual web crow, but the standard crusader would still win out, as the rockets would never land a hit
kessah	Posted - 2006.04.08 02:54:00 - [13] 25m budget u say? hmmm ok then, buy a dread 12km webber there about 15-20m max its only -60% but if the crow is outside your webbing range and has that chance of not fitting a webber himself you then -60% should be enuf to get in range & pop him. Or you could fit a tracking enchancer in low and have your autocannons hit? im not entirly sure but it may give you just enuf range for the falloff to hit? not sure tho. -------------------------------------------------------- http://www.eve-files.com/media/0604/Forever_pirate.wmv[/ur
Deja Thoris	Posted - 2006.04.08 03:57:00 - [14] I suck with inties. Most of my corp mates however drool at the thought of facing a crow in a 1v1. That tells me in no uncertain terms that its not overpowered.
Hamatitio	Posted - 2006.04.08 04:06:00 - [15] Theres 2 setups that beat a rocket crow, both have been tested and work ^_^. im sure there are more out there. --- I Post on the forums for Fate. Im cool. Industrialists wanted
Hamatitio	Posted - 2006.04.08 04:06:00 - [16] Claw: 3x 280mm 2's 1x Rocket Launcher (named) 1x MWD II 1x Warp disruptor 3x Nanofibers 1x MAPC. Tactic: Using titanium sabot, orbit at 15km (will set orbit at about 17km) If he turns his mwd on to approach you, his sig lights up and you hit him, if he does not, he won't get close. You may get in a stalemate, may not always be able to win, but you won't lose. it does take practice, and patience because it takes a while... OR: Taranis: 3x Neutron (t2) (void S) 1x 1mn Microwarp (t1 only fits) 1x Web / Scram (or 2x Webs) 1x MAPC 1x Small armor rep (t1 fits) (can use a plate) 1x Damage control *****any interceptor 1 v 1. Note: WIll lose to an industrial that nos's target jams, webs, scrams, and has a zealot and a ferox come and kill you. --- I Post on the forums for Fate. Im cool. Industrialists wanted
Foomanshoe	Posted - 2006.04.08 05:19:00 - [17] Ever heard of TACTICS? Fly away from the crow, its range will be reduced. Fly towards a crow and its range is inceased. Think before you cry on forums noobtard. _______________________________________________ Deadspace For Dead space! Originally by: Oveur To the nerfmobile!
Foulis	Posted - 2006.04.08 05:29:00 - [18] Originally by: Hamatitio Taranis: 3x Neutron (t2) (void S) 1x 1mn Microwarp (t1 only fits) 1x Web / Scram (or 2x Webs) 1x MAPC 1x Small armor rep (t1 fits) (can use a plate) 1x Damage control ***any interceptor 1 v 1. Note: WIll lose to an industrial that nos's target jams, webs, scrams, and has a zealot and a ferox come and kill you. You have that happen to you too? heh, I'd recomend putting on ions, throwing 2 MFS IIs in the lows and otherwise keep the setup the same =D. It is better overall damage than neutrons with good tracking. ---- Cake > Pie - Imaran Originally by:** CCP Hammer Boobies
Leon 026	Posted - 2006.04.08 07:37:00 - [19] Edited by: Leon 026 on 08/04/2006 07:39:48 Please read the other threads first -_-; http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=315153 Before you cry 'nerf crow!!!111' think of how much we have to pay for one. Crow prices FTL. Its early so im cranky, please forgive. ------------------------------- [20:05:51] Cyshade > Leon 026, making Crow BPO owners trillionaires since 29.08.2005
HippoKing	Posted - 2006.04.08 07:42:00 - [20] Originally by: Foomanshoe Ever heard of TACTICS? Fly away from the crow, its range will be reduced. Fly towards a crow and its range is inceased. he knows Win a Cerberus!! sigs of the 23/24/25 hijack just as well -eris yarrrr, i shall retake my sig -HippoKing Not a chance, our 1337 sig haXx0r sk1llz are too powerful! - Wrangler Ho-Ho-Hooooooo, Merry Saturday!11 - Immy Yo ho ho and a bottle of BReeEEEEeee.... - Jacques ARRRRRRchambault Stop spamming with "QFT" >:\|. - Teblin
Waxau	Posted - 2006.04.08 09:53:00 - [21] hell, whilst were at it lets nerf the shuttle - I got my mate to shoot me with torps and cruises and i tell ya that thing can tank - less damage than my cerb. i dont see how thats fair eh eh eh. 2006.04.08 09:35:54 combat Wrath Cruise Missile belonging to A_CORP_MATE hits you, doing 21.5 damage. 2006.04.08 09:35:18 combat Juggernaut Torpedo belonging to A_CORP_MATE hits you, doing 20.3 damage. the Fact is that crows are just good - just because a ship is good, you dont go around nerfing it. you go around if its totally out of balance with other ships. The Scorp can beat a geddon hands down - they cost the same, but scorp will always pwn the geddon unless the pilot is involved in the equation. Now please stop ranting and raving about ships you cant beat because you havent tried new fittings, or are at a disadvantage. If ya really like, we can make all the ships generic and then call them all 'default ship' - then it'll be down to skill. Or maybe remove skills once people try to nerf them. Then it'll fair....But boring eh?
lofty29	Posted - 2006.04.08 11:35:00 - [22] Using a claw, you should be going so much faster. Fit up autocannons and get into web range. If a crow out-runs you, I'm going to laugh....hard... --------------------------- Originally by: Oveur I see boobies! \o/
Phish1	Posted - 2006.04.08 11:35:00 - [23] he know, grab a shuttle and go into a lvl 4 with a mate with sheild transporters = I win ----------------- ---My 2 ISK--- -----------------
Ivana Killya	Posted - 2006.04.08 11:50:00 - [24] 1 i hate peeps who call for nerfs 2 think of ways to beat it like all the other posters have
Cefte	Posted - 2006.04.08 12:53:00 - [25] Rocket crow dies to Stiletto with two webifiers. Yes, you have to work your approach before engaging, but how is that different to any other interceptor?
LUKEC	Posted - 2006.04.08 12:54:00 - [26] Edited by: LUKEC on 08/04/2006 12:54:34 crow is nasty with rockets, however its damage is not really big, but his weapons use no cap, do good damage type and always hit, no matter what speed does crow have. Actually the only thing that really bothers me on crow is 3 med slots. Decent pilot will be able to dictate range with web, or at least run away. But in the end rocked crow + 400 plate is 1win no brainer in most cases, however crow with std. missiles is the sick one. Die, die, die.
Ernest Graefenberg	Posted - 2006.04.08 13:10:00 - [27] With a setup budget of 25 mil? I would have maybe agreed if you said you can't put a Claw into crazy-mode as easily as a Light Missile Crow with a budget in the hundreds, but as far as regular equipment under 25 mil is concerned you should be taking him to school - especially a rocket crow. If he's unplated you can practically hose him down at 12k, although its still going to be pretty easy to get into web range. If he's plated he's less agile than you, so again - who cares? An AC Claw of all things has the least trouble due to its godly falloff :/
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2006.04.08 13:22:00 - [28] Yep. Barrage amo4tw. "The Human eye is a marvelous device, with a very little effort it can overlook all but the most glaring injustice" - Quellchrist Falconer
Ithildin	Posted - 2006.04.08 13:23:00 - [29] Of legitimate concern is not how to beat the Crow, it is the fitting requirements versus range and damage compared to the other interceptors. A Crow's damage:range ratio is a lot higher than any other interceptor in game at the same time as it's damage:fitting ratio also is higher. The same is true for the last comparison fitting:range. Crow is also the only interceptor which can hit (this time with a more common interceptor fitting requirement, rather than a rocket's very low fitting requirement) realistically out to 30km while still doing decent damage and using T1 equipment. What I mean by this is not "nerf the crow" nor "nerf rockets", it's more a matter of a need for varied "sizes" of launchers. There's three kinds of railguns to allow for a degrade in performance in order to get an upgrade in fitting, while there's only one kind of standard launcher. Questions that needs be answered, though, is what to call the different new launchers and how they will be different other than in fitting (i.e. will they modify damage multiplier and/or will they modify missile range?). That's today's random idea Arkanor > Gallente missileboat might be cool. KilROCK > Pod yourself till you got no skills left
Gericault m0id	Posted - 2006.04.08 14:25:00 - [30] Originally by: Deja Thoris I suck with inties. Most of my corp mates however drool at the thought of facing a crow in a 1v1. That tells me in no uncertain terms that its not overpowered. Yet, most of your corp mates fly crows (in blobs) on a regular basis. Please ask them, and tell us. The closest I ever came to beating one of those was with an ares: nanos in low; blasters in high; mwd, web, scram in med. No chance of tanking the missiles though but the only thing I could think of which was quick enough to catch up with the crow.
j0sephine	Posted - 2006.04.08 15:15:00 - [31] Edited by: j0sephine on 08/04/2006 15:16:40 "The closest I ever came to beating one of those was with an ares: nanos in low; blasters in high; mwd, web, scram in med. No chance of tanking the missiles though but the only thing I could think of which was quick enough to catch up with the crow." So wait, nanofiber rocket Crow is unbeatable because she can outrun people and spam missiles from outside your weapon range? And you can't get in range to hit her? Play her own game then -- two standard launchers on the Ares, nanofibers in the low, orbit at 18 km and spam the missiles. You have the same speed with MWD and have advantage of one more low slot to boot, and now your weapons hit the Crow while her rockets can't reach you. By your own logic, you can't lose this way ... and any argument you'll make why this cannot work 100% of time applies in the same manner to your own "rocket nano Crow vs short range interceptor" argument... (incidentally this will work about as good if not better as standard missile Crow does, vs other regular interceptors, too...)
Valium Summer	Posted - 2006.04.08 15:52:00 - [32] I would suggest you get a better Crow. I have seen the Arctic Circle... And it is round.
Sato Kurosawa	Posted - 2006.04.08 21:20:00 - [33]
Famine Aligher'ri	Posted - 2006.04.08 22:54:00 - [34] Originally by: j0sephine Play her own game then -- two standard launchers on the Ares Wait wait wait HOLD the phone j0sephine! You mean other ships have missile launchers too?
Gericault m0id	Posted - 2006.04.09 10:07:00 - [35] Originally by: j0sephine Edited by: j0sephine on 08/04/2006 15:16:40 "The closest I ever came to beating one of those was with an ares: nanos in low; blasters in high; mwd, web, scram in med. No chance of tanking the missiles though but the only thing I could think of which was quick enough to catch up with the crow." So wait, nanofiber rocket Crow is unbeatable because she can outrun people and spam missiles from outside your weapon range? And you can't get in range to hit her? Play her own game then -- two standard launchers on the Ares, nanofibers in the low, orbit at 18 km and spam the missiles. You have the same speed with MWD and have advantage of one more low slot to boot, and now your weapons hit the Crow while her rockets can't reach you. By your own logic, you can't lose this way ... and any argument you'll make why this cannot work 100% of time applies in the same manner to your own "rocket nano Crow vs short range interceptor" argument... (incidentally this will work about as good if not better as standard missile Crow does, vs other regular interceptors, too...) lol, bear in mind. I don't have any missile skills. I want to beat her with my own skill set damn it! Blasters ftw This is a joke. I get what you're saying. I think
DJTheBaron	Posted - 2006.04.09 10:40:00 - [36] your argument is moot a crow cannot keep you at 11-12k without webbing you either let alone you webbing him __________________________________________________ Scum, your all scum.
tyrol	Posted - 2006.04.09 10:57:00 - [37] ares ftw
Ryysa	Posted - 2006.04.09 11:45:00 - [38] Originally by: Gericault m0id The closest I ever came to beating one of those was with an ares: nanos in low; blasters in high; mwd, web, scram in med. No chance of tanking the missiles though but the only thing I could think of which was quick enough to catch up with the crow. WTB ares with 3 midslots... All about target jamming
j0sephine	Posted - 2006.04.09 11:52:00 - [39] "Wait wait wait HOLD the phone j0sephine! You mean other ships have missile launchers too? " I have heard (unconfirmed) rumours to such effect o.o;
KilROCK	Posted - 2006.04.09 11:56:00 - [40] You're one hell of a crap interceptor pilot if you get pinned down by a crow because he was keeping orbit at 11km.......... Seriously, did someone nerf your intelligence? Originally by: KilROCK I make sigs, evemail me if interested.
mirel yirrin	Posted - 2006.04.09 11:58:00 - [41] Originally by: Ya Rrr Whining.. No. Adapt or die. --------------------------------- CEO of teh Jenny Spitfire Fanclub. Wanna Join? Convo meh IG.
DrakeStone Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.09.05 14:17:00 - [42] Edited by: DrakeStone on 05/09/2006 14:17:34 On these "dual-web" references people are making: does this mean actually placing two webifiers in the mid-slots of the crow? What would be in the third, AB, MWD or Scram? How could you ever get a kill without a scram? How could you avoid damage without propulsion? I've yet to fly my new crow. These are genuine questions.
Tasty Burger	Posted - 2006.09.05 14:30:00 - [43] Originally by: DrakeStone Edited by: DrakeStone on 05/09/2006 14:17:34 On these "dual-web" references people are making: does this mean actually placing two webifiers in the mid-slots of the crow? What would be in the third, AB, MWD or Scram? How could you ever get a kill without a scram? How could you avoid damage without propulsion? I've yet to fly my new crow. These are genuine questions. In ceptor vs ceptor combat, a scrambler is often not necessary. While two good pilots will often take a while to position themselves well, the actual engagement is usually very short, giving little time to warp, anyway. Two webs serve you better against other inties than web and scram, but of course it makes you useless as a tackler.
Testy Mctest	Posted - 2006.09.05 14:49:00 - [44] Edited by: Testy Mctest on 05/09/2006 14:55:09 Crows are blatantly overpowered, we know that. However, you've picked probably the one inty that can kill Crows in 1v1 to base your example on. Claws. 250mm Arty. Dead Crows. Claws. Autocannons. Dead Crows. Like anything, that's assuming the Claw knows how to fly, though. Incidentally, Claws go faster than Crows, too. With the same speed mods and skills as my Crow-whoring colleague, I do 7450ms (sih), and he does 7300ish, for example. This translates back down through the ranks to your 25mil setups (how you manage to buy an inty and t2 fit it on that budget is beyond me, but still....). Edit: Anti Ceptor Ceptor: 3x 250mm II / 3x 150mm II, Rocket Launcher II MWD II, Fleeting Web Gyro, Local Hull Overdrive, Local Hull Nano, Magnetic Plating II / Energised Plate II Sprinkle liberally with faction gear for real ownage, beginning with Snakes and a Gistii MWD. Originally by: D'Hofren The amazing boost amarr thread with it's amorphic elastic maths Scrapheap Challenge!
fmercury Contraband Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.09.05 14:54:00 - [45] Edited by: fmercury on 05/09/2006 14:55:23 Beam sader will eat a non-snake missile crow alive. Keep at range =>13km. Sader is way faster, so he can usually dictate range. If the crow tries to run, all he'll be doing is wasting his cap and lowering his DPS. Only real chance for the crow is to web the sader and go in for a close orbit to try and beat the beams' tracking. (Alternativley, he could fit a tracking disruptor and auto-win.) Probably works the same for claws, but i can't say as i've never flown one. Here's the thing: Crows are slow, they do poor DPS, and their cap is not very good. So why do people fly them? Well, you can gistii/snake it up without gimping your tracking due to speed. Similarly, unlike turret ceptors, you can constantly run your MWD and do full DPS at any range, while others would run into tracking problems (especially against fellow ceptors or frigs) Another perk: high lockrange allows you to fly in and out of other ceptor's max lock range, breaking their lock, while still hitting them with your missiles.
Bloodst0ne The Priory	Posted - 2006.09.05 15:08:00 - [46] Originally by: LUKEC But in the end rocked crow + 400 plate is 1win no brainer in most cases, however crow with std. missiles is the sick one. QFT.. Std. Missile Crow: orbit at 22km, turn on and leave on mwd, turn on TS disruptor, shoot missiles.. Watch enemy either run away with stabs, call in some friends, or die like he should. Nanocrow can easily hit 5km/s in orbit in gang. Had a precision heavy missile hit me for in and around 3 damage. /emote hugs his crow -blood p.s. don't nerf it :P I have the "I Win Button" of eve.
kublai	Posted - 2006.09.05 15:08:00 - [47] The rocket crow loses to large nos (in seconds, as we are so cap dependant), and it cannot take any real damage, rockets/missiles/drones will slaughter one np.
Vathar Elegance	Posted - 2006.09.05 15:13:00 - [48] Huhu, reaching 5km/s in a crow requires expensive stuff or gang assist mods. And TS disruptors aren't exactly cheap either ... Orbiting at 22km will also mean a smart pilot will find a way to get out of disruptor range _ Originally by: Stamm Minmatar are kind of like going down a flight of stairs on an office chair firing an uzi
Laythun Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.09.05 15:18:00 - [49] Originally by: fmercury Edited by: fmercury on 05/09/2006 14:55:23 Beam sader will eat a non-snake missile crow alive. Keep at range =>13km. Sader is way faster, so he can usually dictate range. If the crow tries to run, all he'll be doing is wasting his cap and lowering his DPS. Only real chance for the crow is to web the sader and go in for a close orbit to try and beat the beams' tracking. (Alternativley, he could fit a tracking disruptor and auto-win.) That dont work, cos beams track surprisingly well... drop some gleam ammo into them and dead crow *See You In Space Cowboy*
Core Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.09.05 16:41:00 - [50] Edited by: Core on 05/09/2006 16:43:28 Who needs shooting range and orbit when they can just mwd away and warp off My ultimate crow setup beats like any inty 1v1 1 rocket launcher t2 =D, 3 small nos Mwd, web, scramb, armor repper, nanofiber, aux power core Once your webbed and nos'd theres no escape. Only WCs can save you now and i can run away anytime since you have no cap for web/scramb and possible shooting (unless minnie or caldari ofcourse) I will kill you... slowly ofcourse with 1 rocket launcher =/
Shadarle	Posted - 2006.09.05 17:00:00 - [51] This might be the stupidest post I've seen in a long time... basically the OP gives 1 specific crow setup and then asks how he is supposed to kill it with one other ship. Guess what, not every ship in this game can kill every other ship. Some ships will always kill one other ship of their class... but that other ship will be better for doing other things. This game isn't about 100% balance between every ship of the same class, it's balance on the empire scale (or it should be). ********************************************** Tank Rankings - Ships & Fittings Compared! http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=386174
Audri Fisher Caldari The Keep THE R0CK	Posted - 2006.09.05 17:31:00 - [52] 1. Cormorat 2. 7 125 mm tech II rails with AM 3. 3 tech II tracking comps techII passive kin hardener 4. Mag stab II works against crows missle or rocket
DrakeStone Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.09.05 19:09:00 - [53] Originally by: DrakeStone Edited by: DrakeStone on 05/09/2006 14:17:34 On these "dual-web" references people are making: does this mean actually placing two webifiers in the mid-slots of the crow? What would be in the third, AB, MWD or Scram? How could you ever get a kill without a scram? How could you avoid damage without propulsion? I've yet to fly my new crow. These are genuine questions. Anyone?

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