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Lt Cmdr
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Posted - 2006.04.09 19:06:00 -
[1]
is it possible? and if so what configurations would u need on the pos?
If you were at war with a corp, and wanted to fire on 1 target instead of cycling
cheers
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Verite Rendition
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Posted - 2006.04.09 20:15:00 -
[2]
It's not possible.
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AUS Corp
Lead Megalomanic |
Admiral IceBlock
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Posted - 2006.04.09 20:24:00 -
[3]
well you can "work around it".
make the pos shoot only players with -10 standing, put everyone else on 0 standing.
"We brake for nobody"
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ReaperOfSly
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Posted - 2006.04.09 23:54:00 -
[4]
I think a POS would be too powerful if it was able to automatically concentrate on a single target.
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Signatures must be eve related - Laqum
Huh? Since when? - ReaperOfSly |
Lightof God
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Posted - 2006.04.10 02:33:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Admiral IceBlock
well you can "work around it".
make the pos shoot only players with -10 standing, put everyone else on 0 standing.
I believe that is called Exploit.
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Kaladr
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Posted - 2006.04.10 02:34:00 -
[6]
Same as launching 100 shuttles out of an indy.
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EVE-Central.com | Obsidian Technologies - 0.0 Manufacturing, Defense and Logistics. We're hiring! Mail me |
Kusotarre
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Posted - 2006.04.10 06:00:00 -
[7]
It's not an exploit at all.
Have all your enemies at -9.9 standings.
Have the POS, by default, shoot anyone below 0 or -5 or whatever standings, anything higher than -9.9.
Then, if POS is being attacked, get to POS, change it so that it only shoots -10s, and selectively set individual enemies to -10.
Then, poof. One by one.
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Jennifer Shunt
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Posted - 2006.04.10 07:14:00 -
[8]
You have to have the pilots standing set before they enter local or else it doesn't work. If your changing the standing while the pilot is shooting your pos its too late and won't work. Soooo go through all the nice video's peeps post, and set known dread pilots to whatever standing and hope is all.
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Lt Cmdr
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Posted - 2006.04.10 10:06:00 -
[9]
how can u set standings to indivudal people though  (if u were the ceo)
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Bozse
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Posted - 2006.04.10 10:40:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Kusotarre
It's not an exploit at all.
Have all your enemies at -9.9 standings.
Have the POS, by default, shoot anyone below 0 or -5 or whatever standings, anything higher than -9.9.
Then, if POS is being attacked, get to POS, change it so that it only shoots -10s, and selectively set individual enemies to -10.
Then, poof. One by one.
The common definition of an exploit is ôto use the game mechanics in such a way as they were not intended for the purpose of gaining an unfair advantage over other players.ö
Think that fits right in to that description.
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James Lyrus
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Posted - 2006.04.10 11:02:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Bozse
Originally by: Kusotarre
It's not an exploit at all.
Have all your enemies at -9.9 standings.
Have the POS, by default, shoot anyone below 0 or -5 or whatever standings, anything higher than -9.9.
Then, if POS is being attacked, get to POS, change it so that it only shoots -10s, and selectively set individual enemies to -10.
Then, poof. One by one.
The common definition of an exploit is ôto use the game mechanics in such a way as they were not intended for the purpose of gaining an unfair advantage over other players.ö
Think that fits right in to that description.
Instas? Login traps?
Definition of 'an exploit' is 'anything the Devs or GMs say is an exploit'. If you think it's dubious, then click that 'ask a question link'.
--
We are recruiting
We sell carriers. |
Bozse
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Posted - 2006.04.10 11:41:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Bozse on 10/04/2006 11:41:44
Originally by: James Lyrus
Originally by: Bozse
Originally by: Kusotarre
It's not an exploit at all.
Have all your enemies at -9.9 standings.
Have the POS, by default, shoot anyone below 0 or -5 or whatever standings, anything higher than -9.9.
Then, if POS is being attacked, get to POS, change it so that it only shoots -10s, and selectively set individual enemies to -10.
Then, poof. One by one.
The common definition of an exploit is ôto use the game mechanics in such a way as they were not intended for the purpose of gaining an unfair advantage over other players.ö
Think that fits right in to that description.
Instas? Login traps?
Definition of 'an exploit' is 'anything the Devs or GMs say is an exploit'. If you think it's dubious, then click that 'ask a question link'.
Instas well yes that might fit in but does not hurt anyone, login traps have been dealt with in some way (not efficient enough imo) with the time it takes to align and warp and so on.
What is sugested here is to "bypass" the balancing the devs have done when it comes to POS vs Dread wich could have a huge economic impact on other players.
And yes if u want a official answer use the "ask a question" link, i was more replying to it as it's not that obvious that it's not an exploit as he was making it look.
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Lt Cmdr
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Posted - 2006.04.10 13:57:00 -
[13]
so um how can u set standings to indivudal people though 
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Violet Amiria
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Posted - 2006.04.10 14:24:00 -
[14]
I'll have to try this out sometime....hopefully not too soon. 
Templi Cube Productions IPO
WTS Barges, Indies, Industrial/Mining Modules |
Lt Cmdr
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Posted - 2006.04.12 18:49:00 -
[15]
same question as my last post
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Balazs Simon
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Posted - 2006.04.13 13:50:00 -
[16]
A standing set now have a 1 hour /1 cycle time / delay to have effecto on your pos.
If you set the standing towards your enemy well prior the engagement, than it may help a bit. Seting standings to force the POS to focus fire is/was an exploit. Why ? Because teh Devs sysed so. <- go argue with that...
Not this is elliminated with the delay that it takes to the pos to use new standings.
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POST WITH YOUR MAIN!
This post is my personal opinion. It does not represent the standpoint of the HUN Corporation in any way.
- |
Selak Zorander
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Posted - 2006.04.13 14:06:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Balazs Simon
A standing set now have a 1 hour /1 cycle time / delay to have effecto on your pos.
If you set the standing towards your enemy well prior the engagement, than it may help a bit. Seting standings to force the POS to focus fire is/was an exploit. Why ? Because teh Devs sysed so. <- go argue with that...
Not this is elliminated with the delay that it takes to the pos to use new standings.
yeah will in a petition i was told that it is not an exploit to so that so which is it?
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Naughtulus
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Posted - 2006.04.13 18:08:00 -
[18]
For those who are stating that it is an exploit, please post a link to some source where a Dev or GM states that it is such. I have never seen them say anything like that and, frankly, don't believe that it is.
Naughtulus
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Lt Cmdr
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Posted - 2006.04.13 20:26:00 -
[19]
okay, so how does 1 person set his corp standing to 1 other person to negative? as far as i know it can only be done thru alliances and corps
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without
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Posted - 2006.04.14 01:21:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Lt Cmdr
okay, so how does 1 person set his corp standing to 1 other person to negative? as far as i know it can only be done thru alliances and corps
right click on the gey, move the bar that does from -10 to +10 to a position you feel fit to have them on
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Nee'kita Frist
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Posted - 2006.04.15 22:44:00 -
[21]
POSes are only influenced by Corp and Alliance standings and not personal standings.
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I'm just bitter |
Wild Rho
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Posted - 2006.04.15 23:23:00 -
[22]
tbh POS needs somthing like a firecontrol module that players can anchor and then board to co-ordinate POS fire.
WE ARE DYSLEXIC OF BORG. Refutance is systile. Your ass will be laminated. - Jennie Marlboro
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Dianabolic
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Posted - 2006.04.15 23:27:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Wild Rho
tbh POS needs somthing like a firecontrol module that players can anchor and then board to co-ordinate POS fire.
wtfno.
Originally by: Thomas Jefferson
A society that will trade a little liberty for a little security will lose both and deserve neither
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Agent Kenshin
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Posted - 2006.04.16 00:05:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Dianabolic
Originally by: Wild Rho
tbh POS needs somthing like a firecontrol module that players can anchor and then board to co-ordinate POS fire.
wtfno.
Knowing CCP theyll make it require some insane amount of PG so you dont have nearly the same firepower.
Originally by: MAXSuicide
only carebears call pvpers 'greifers'
ehehehh....
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Herring
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Posted - 2006.04.16 04:42:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Bozse
Originally by: Kusotarre
It's not an exploit at all.
Have all your enemies at -9.9 standings.
Have the POS, by default, shoot anyone below 0 or -5 or whatever standings, anything higher than -9.9.
Then, if POS is being attacked, get to POS, change it so that it only shoots -10s, and selectively set individual enemies to -10.
Then, poof. One by one.
The common definition of an exploit is ôto use the game mechanics in such a way as they were not intended for the purpose of gaining an unfair advantage over other players.ö
Think that fits right in to that description.
Personally I think you're full of it. There's no unfair advantage there. If you were in control of the station you'd want it to target the most powerful enemies first. Cycling through all enemies is an inefficient defense mechanism that favors the attacker. 
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Kipkruide
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Posted - 2006.04.16 08:57:00 -
[26]
focused fire is good, way too easy to take out posses atm.
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Bozse
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Posted - 2006.04.16 17:22:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Herring
Originally by: Bozse
Originally by: Kusotarre
It's not an exploit at all.
Have all your enemies at -9.9 standings.
Have the POS, by default, shoot anyone below 0 or -5 or whatever standings, anything higher than -9.9.
Then, if POS is being attacked, get to POS, change it so that it only shoots -10s, and selectively set individual enemies to -10.
Then, poof. One by one.
The common definition of an exploit is ôto use the game mechanics in such a way as they were not intended for the purpose of gaining an unfair advantage over other players.ö
Think that fits right in to that description.
Personally I think you're full of it. There's no unfair advantage there. If you were in control of the station you'd want it to target the most powerful enemies first. Cycling through all enemies is an inefficient defense mechanism that favors the attacker.
So what u'r saying is that u never have been in a dread assulting a pos with heavy defences, because if u had then u wouldn't have said what u just said.
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Herring
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Posted - 2006.04.16 21:23:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Bozse
Originally by: Herring
Originally by: Bozse
Originally by: Kusotarre
It's not an exploit at all.
Have all your enemies at -9.9 standings.
Have the POS, by default, shoot anyone below 0 or -5 or whatever standings, anything higher than -9.9.
Then, if POS is being attacked, get to POS, change it so that it only shoots -10s, and selectively set individual enemies to -10.
Then, poof. One by one.
The common definition of an exploit is ôto use the game mechanics in such a way as they were not intended for the purpose of gaining an unfair advantage over other players.ö
Think that fits right in to that description.
Personally I think you're full of it. There's no unfair advantage there. If you were in control of the station you'd want it to target the most powerful enemies first. Cycling through all enemies is an inefficient defense mechanism that favors the attacker.
So what u'r saying is that u never have been in a dread assulting a pos with heavy defences, because if u had then u wouldn't have said what u just said.
I think you heard what I said, and ignored it. If you're not happy with stations that don't go down quickly enough, bring more dreadnoughts...it's not like you have a shortage of them. Right now I want my corp to build a pos, they have the money, they have the resources, but the CEO (wisely) thinks it's not a good idea to build right now. Not just because of regional instability, but because POS's can be taken out with ease. And one of the main reasons they can, is because of this cyclic fire defense system.
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Agent Kenshin
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Posted - 2006.04.17 04:09:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Herring
Originally by: Bozse
Originally by: Herring
Originally by: Bozse
Originally by: Kusotarre
It's not an exploit at all.
Have all your enemies at -9.9 standings.
Have the POS, by default, shoot anyone below 0 or -5 or whatever standings, anything higher than -9.9.
Then, if POS is being attacked, get to POS, change it so that it only shoots -10s, and selectively set individual enemies to -10.
Then, poof. One by one.
The common definition of an exploit is ôto use the game mechanics in such a way as they were not intended for the purpose of gaining an unfair advantage over other players.ö
Think that fits right in to that description.
Personally I think you're full of it. There's no unfair advantage there. If you were in control of the station you'd want it to target the most powerful enemies first. Cycling through all enemies is an inefficient defense mechanism that favors the attacker.
So what u'r saying is that u never have been in a dread assulting a pos with heavy defences, because if u had then u wouldn't have said what u just said.
I think you heard what I said, and ignored it. If you're not happy with stations that don't go down quickly enough, bring more dreadnoughts...it's not like you have a shortage of them. Right now I want my corp to build a pos, they have the money, they have the resources, but the CEO (wisely) thinks it's not a good idea to build right now. Not just because of regional instability, but because POS's can be taken out with ease. And one of the main reasons they can, is because of this cyclic fire defense system.
POS are taken out with ease because people do not know how to set them up for defense. That and people dont usually come out and defend them. If youve never been in a dread assaulting a well setup POS then you dont know what its like and your not listening to what he has to say. Theres more to assaulting a POS other than just bring dreads clicking a button and opening fire... You obviously need to do a little more research...
Originally by: MAXSuicide
only carebears call pvpers 'greifers'
ehehehh....
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djNME
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Posted - 2006.04.17 08:27:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Agent Kenshin
Originally by: Herring
Originally by: Bozse
Originally by: Herring
Originally by: Bozse
Originally by: Kusotarre
It's not an exploit at all.
Have all your enemies at -9.9 standings.
Have the POS, by default, shoot anyone below 0 or -5 or whatever standings, anything higher than -9.9.
Then, if POS is being attacked, get to POS, change it so that it only shoots -10s, and selectively set individual enemies to -10.
Then, poof. One by one.
The common definition of an exploit is ôto use the game mechanics in such a way as they were not intended for the purpose of gaining an unfair advantage over other players.ö
Think that fits right in to that description.
Personally I think you're full of it. There's no unfair advantage there. If you were in control of the station you'd want it to target the most powerful enemies first. Cycling through all enemies is an inefficient defense mechanism that favors the attacker.
So what u'r saying is that u never have been in a dread assulting a pos with heavy defences, because if u had then u wouldn't have said what u just said.
I think you heard what I said, and ignored it. If you're not happy with stations that don't go down quickly enough, bring more dreadnoughts...it's not like you have a shortage of them. Right now I want my corp to build a pos, they have the money, they have the resources, but the CEO (wisely) thinks it's not a good idea to build right now. Not just because of regional instability, but because POS's can be taken out with ease. And one of the main reasons they can, is because of this cyclic fire defense system.
POS are taken out with ease because people do not know how to set them up for defense. That and people dont usually come out and defend them. If youve never been in a dread assaulting a well setup POS then you dont know what its like and your not listening to what he has to say. Theres more to assaulting a POS other than just bring dreads clicking a button and opening fire... You obviously need to do a little more research...
D.S. pos 4tw... ^^QFT
Also I would think until you get it in writing froma GM it's not an exploit.However without knowing myself if I thought about doing it Iwould petition to get an offical ruling on it.
Even if you didn't get in trouble from doing it.Would suck if the pilot you killed got the dread/ship back because it was it was considered an sploit.
djNME
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Lt Cmdr
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Posted - 2006.04.18 03:56:00 -
[31]
Have all your enemies at -9.9 standings.
Have the POS, by default, shoot anyone below 0 or -5 or whatever standings, anything higher than -9.9.
Then, if POS is being attacked, get to POS, change it so that it only shoots -10s, and selectively set individual enemies to -10.
You have to have the pilots standing set before they enter local or else it doesn't work. If your changing the standing while the pilot is shooting your pos its too late and won't work. Soooo go through all the nice video's peeps post, and set known dread pilots to whatever standing and hope is all.
Can someone fuse those 2 paragraphs together, coz it's confuisng lol
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Martinus Crimson
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Posted - 2006.04.18 06:59:00 -
[32]
The stupid part in here is that everyone seems so desperate about the focus fire thing being an exploit, because otherwise the attackers will lose a considerable ammount of ISK.
I'm sorry, but what about the people that own the POS, its ok for them to see 2 - 4 billion if not more dissapear because thier investment cannot properly defend itself.
POS need a complete rework to take into account the massive ammounts of dreads currently ingame, i'm pretty sure CCP never expected everyone and thier mother having or getting a dread. Or 50 man corps having 10 dreads, and sieging POS' with that weekly. Taking down a POS just became WAY to easy (And Yes i know, cause i've been on the attacking side several times)
So up until POS (defences) get fixed i'd say its a perfectly legal way to defend a investment.
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^^ Now i got my own exotic dancers, thnx Chribba |
iqplayer
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Posted - 2006.04.24 16:08:00 -
[33]
Edited by: iqplayer on 24/04/2006 16:08:39
Originally by: Lt Cmdr
Can someone fuse those 2 paragraphs together, coz it's confuisng lol
It's quite simple in the end - focus fire using the methods described earlier (setting one player to a -X.X standing) - won't work unless you set that player to that standing before he starts attacking your POS. By the time he's there shooting at your POS, standings changes will not affect the POS's actions.
Those complaining about this needing to be an exploit, should first of all check to see whether it even works. Then you should perhaps consider whether the system is truly balanced atm - let's see, you can form a fleet based on whatever combination of ships you want, you can bring as many dreads as you want, you can form tactics. POS is limited on the amount of guns and assorted other fittings, has no 'intelligence' (it's fire control is totally random, and doesn't even attempt decent defense), and cannot be affected by the player, except perhaps for the variety of modules you fit beforehand.
The only thing that can save a POS from a determined and suitably large Dread fleet atm, is an opposing fleet. This might be an acceptable mechanic, but it seems in most situations where it could be tried out, lag becomes quite severe...... Done properly, there is almost 0 risk to the attacker, which EC-P8R should have made quite clear.
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Audrea
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Posted - 2006.04.26 08:04:00 -
[34]
Originally by: iqplayer
Edited by: iqplayer on 24/04/2006 16:08:39
Originally by: Lt Cmdr
Can someone fuse those 2 paragraphs together, coz it's confuisng lol
It's quite simple in the end - focus fire using the methods described earlier (setting one player to a -X.X standing) - won't work unless you set that player to that standing before he starts attacking your POS. By the time he's there shooting at your POS, standings changes will not affect the POS's actions.
Those complaining about this needing to be an exploit, should first of all check to see whether it even works. Then you should perhaps consider whether the system is truly balanced atm - let's see, you can form a fleet based on whatever combination of ships you want, you can bring as many dreads as you want, you can form tactics. POS is limited on the amount of guns and assorted other fittings, has no 'intelligence' (it's fire control is totally random, and doesn't even attempt decent defense), and cannot be affected by the player, except perhaps for the variety of modules you fit beforehand.
The only thing that can save a POS from a determined and suitably large Dread fleet atm, is an opposing fleet. This might be an acceptable mechanic, but it seems in most situations where it could be tried out, lag becomes quite severe...... Done properly, there is almost 0 risk to the attacker, which EC-P8R should have made quite clear.
Assuming I set indvidual pilot to -10 before he attacks but already in system - will that work?
If not, assuming the POS enters reinforced mode.
Now 1 day later they come back for the final assault. will it now focus fire?
And I agree with one of the posters above - it doesnt make sense that if 10 dreads want to take out large tower, the attacker wont loose even one dread.
When ppl would know that every pos they kill, they will probably loose a dread or two - they will think twice.
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All my posts are my own opinions and dont not represent any organization until stated otherwise. |
Randay
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Posted - 2006.04.26 09:00:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Randay on 26/04/2006 09:03:54
Its not an exploit by definition unless the devs announce it as a bug first. Then it becomes an exploit, and as far as I know there is no bug regarding this tactic.
edit: For those who still consider this an exploit may want to consider the fact that they are also saying that a pos that shoots at 0 standings while not shooting at +10 standings is also an exploit.
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"Det hSr kan betyda krig!" |
Tas Devil
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Posted - 2006.04.26 11:10:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Wild Rho
tbh POS needs somthing like a firecontrol module that players can anchor and then board to co-ordinate POS fire.
/signed... POS are stupid and it makes no sense that such valuable investments are totally incapable of defending themselves.
The best Laugh ever ...
Credit goes to TheKiller8 for this :) |
Tas Devil
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Posted - 2006.04.26 11:21:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Tas Devil on 26/04/2006 11:24:52
For those of you wondering about POS defense... here is probably the sillyest but most effcicient tactic ... and as such is a complete EXPLOIT according to the logic of some posters here... (since it uses an out of game mechanic...LOL)
Eve Players sleep too... so always have your Stronium Clarathes count inside your tower to be 1d + a fraction of a day. Assuming most POS attackers attack in their prime time when ther numbers are up, you have to set your POS so that your SC count leaves the POS in reinforced mode for 1d+ say 15 hrs... or 18hrs.... or 12 hrs.... when your POS leaves reinforced mode ... your attackers might find they are at work... or sleeping... and certainly not in their prime EvE game time...
This gives you a chance to actually replenish the shields to 50% so as to refuel and re-stronium ... cycle refresh ... and start all over again...
Technically this uses an out of game mechanic... so is it a 'sploit ?
DISCLAIMER : Above trick won't work if you are fighting BlOB... who can muster dreads by the dozen at pretty much any hour of the day
The best Laugh ever ...
Credit goes to TheKiller8 for this :) |
Audrea
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Posted - 2006.04.26 12:12:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Tas DevilDISCLAIMER : Above trick won't work if you are fighting BlOB... who can muster dreads by the dozen at pretty much any hour of the day [)
lol.
Not just them, but any1 with determination will not care even if its 3am in his time.
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All my posts are my own opinions and dont not represent any organization until stated otherwise. |
Lightof God
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Posted - 2006.04.26 15:30:00 -
[39]
Then I would also have to say it will not work on Goonfleet seeing as they are able to rally forces in the 100's at all hours of the day. (annoying zergs)
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Audrea
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Posted - 2006.04.26 18:00:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Lightof God
Then I would also have to say it will not work on Goonfleet seeing as they are able to rally forces in the 100's at all hours of the day. (annoying zergs)
Starcraft Zerglings 4tw! 
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All my posts are my own opinions and dont not represent any organization until stated otherwise. |
Shamis Orzoz
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Posted - 2006.04.26 18:23:00 -
[41]
There definitely should be a way to "board" the pos defense system and control it. Any decent alliance has no trouble assembling 10-20 dreads. 20 dreads destroy a large pos in no time.
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Lt Cmdr
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Posted - 2006.04.26 22:06:00 -
[42]
okay, so you need to set the induval person at -10.
Then you need to set 'shoot persons if their sec at -5'
But what do u set 'shoot if their standing is....'?
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Tas Devil
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Posted - 2006.04.27 03:39:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Lightof God
Then I would also have to say it will not work on Goonfleet seeing as they are able to rally forces in the 100's at all hours of the day. (annoying zergs)
Goonfleet have dreads ?
The best Laugh ever ...
Credit goes to TheKiller8 for this :) |
Nyphur
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Posted - 2006.04.27 04:27:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Tas Devil
Goonfleet have dreads ?
Yes. When you can mine the isk to buy a dread char in a day and the isk to buy the dread in two days, you have dreads.
And they recruit people who can fly dreads. Not many of them around so far but numbers are increasing.
Eve-Tanking.com - For the ultimate tanking spreadsheet and resources. |
Yurameki Daishun
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Posted - 2006.04.27 16:13:00 -
[45]
the intelligent solution would be that it continues to fire on people by standings, however each weapon group.
ie. missiles
ie. turrets
ie. drones
have a priority list that you can arrange as you like PER SHIP CLASS
ie. you may make all missiles prioritize BS because your gun turrets have trouble hitting them, and they all fire on Dreads first, and your drones might be prioritized for smaller targets because they're likely the support ships jamming your missiles.
that would be the intelligent way to deal with it, a group attacking an installation that's stationary should be at the disadvantage, at risk of losing as much or more ISK as the defenders are at risk of, it doesn't make sense to make something extremely expensive, and then so vulnerable, like cap ships and carriers, POS need a big rework, it will take a lot of balance testing.
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Mah Kraah
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Posted - 2006.04.27 20:36:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Shamis Orzoz
There definitely should be a way to "board" the pos defense system and control it. Any decent alliance has no trouble assembling 10-20 dreads. 20 dreads destroy a large pos in no time.
20 dreads represent a offensive investment of roughly 40 billion and 80 years of skilltraining(accumulated)
1 larget tower max armment represent a defensive investment of less than 2 billion
guess who should win easy?
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Ilor Prophet
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Posted - 2006.04.27 21:07:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Ilor Prophet on 27/04/2006 21:08:30
Perhaps, but the point is that the attackers should suffer some loss. By my understanding, the current system is such that NONE of the dreads will be destroyed because the POS will split its fire evenly amongst random targets. By comparison, this would be like forcing ships in a blob to each attack a different target. I don't see anyone advocating that, now do I? Why should the POS be any different?
Oh, and one more thing - a POS is not only a large initial cost, but has a huge consumables budget as well. That cost adds up over time. Do the ammunition consumption numbers on a Dreadnought come anywhere close?
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Dianabolic
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Posted - 2006.04.27 21:43:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Martinus Crimson
The stupid part in here is that everyone seems so desperate about the focus fire thing being an exploit, because otherwise the attackers will lose a considerable ammount of ISK.
Are you for real? An average large pos comes in at about 1b per unit, including structures.
A dreadnought comes in at 2b+ INCLUDING fittings PER SHIP! You're really saying that a static placement should have ANY chance against what is more than likely gonna be upwards of 10b isk worth of combat power?
orly?
Bring a fleet, that's the whole and entire point of playing an mmo. If you cannot field a fleet enough to kill at least one attacking dread (You don't need a blob btw) and push the isk factor in your favour, thus making attacking your pos not something that anyone would want to do, then you deserve to lose it.
Originally by: Thomas Jefferson
A society that will trade a little liberty for a little security will lose both and deserve neither
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Dianabolic
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Posted - 2006.04.27 21:45:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Shamis Orzoz
There definitely should be a way to "board" the pos defense system and control it. Any decent alliance has no trouble assembling 10-20 dreads. 20 dreads destroy a large pos in no time.
Just think about that again Shamis - you're saying that ONE pilot, the POS pilot, a pos worth ~1b, should trump 20 pilots flying 2b+ of gear EACH?
orly?
Originally by: Thomas Jefferson
A society that will trade a little liberty for a little security will lose both and deserve neither
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Dianabolic
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Posted - 2006.04.27 21:48:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Ilor Prophet
Edited by: Ilor Prophet on 27/04/2006 21:08:30
Perhaps, but the point is that the attackers should suffer some loss. By my understanding, the current system is such that NONE of the dreads will be destroyed because the POS will split its fire evenly amongst random targets. By comparison, this would be like forcing ships in a blob to each attack a different target. I don't see anyone advocating that, now do I? Why should the POS be any different?
Oh, and one more thing - a POS is not only a large initial cost, but has a huge consumables budget as well. That cost adds up over time. Do the ammunition consumption numbers on a Dreadnought come anywhere close?
BRING A FLEET!! BRING A FLEET!! BRING A FLEET!! BRING A FLEET!! BRING A FLEET!! BRING A FLEET!! BRING A FLEET!! BRING A FLEET!! BRING A FLEET!! BRING A FLEET!! BRING A FLEET!! BRING A FLEET!! BRING A FLEET!! BRING A FLEET!! BRING A FLEET!! BRING A FLEET!!
Jesus christ, "omg maaaaaaaaan I might need to actually defend this whaaaaaaaa why can't CCP do it for me!"
I've personally defended a medium pos from 4 dreads and a hostile 40bs fleet using TEN, yes TEN battleship pilots and a few support.
The pos was never destroyed.
Instead of whining to get your job done for you, why not just work it out and get with some friends and do it yourself?
Originally by: Thomas Jefferson
A society that will trade a little liberty for a little security will lose both and deserve neither
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Dianabolic
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Posted - 2006.04.27 21:52:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Ilor Prophet
Edited by: Ilor Prophet on 27/04/2006 21:08:30
Perhaps, but the point is that the attackers should suffer some loss. By my understanding, the current system is such that NONE of the dreads will be destroyed because the POS will split its fire evenly amongst random targets. By comparison, this would be like forcing ships in a blob to each attack a different target. I don't see anyone advocating that, now do I? Why should the POS be any different?
Oh, and one more thing - a POS is not only a large initial cost, but has a huge consumables budget as well. That cost adds up over time. Do the ammunition consumption numbers on a Dreadnought come anywhere close?
To kill a large caldari pos you're probably looking at upwards of 10k strontium.
At ~3k a unit, 300,00,000 isk.
Plus ammo (1k per shot).
Plus ur sitting in a ~2b isk ship, that took an accumulated time of more than a month to build.
That has build blue prints that total 20b isk.
That can only be built in 0.4.
That require nearly a year if you only trained up to dreads to become competent in.
That can only be moved using cynos.
That cost money to move.
That are completely and utterly defenseless against small ships and without a supporting fleet.
That are at your MERCY when they are at YOUR pos, as is the supporting fleet that HAS to warp in to defend them AND take losses IF you attack the dreads.
Stop whining about dreads against POS, start putting up the value of your wares so you can afford some merc reactive protection.
Originally by: Thomas Jefferson
A society that will trade a little liberty for a little security will lose both and deserve neither
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Lt Cmdr
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Posted - 2006.04.27 22:21:00 -
[52]
bak on topic
okay, so you need to set the induval person at -10.
Then you need to set 'shoot persons if their sec at -5'
But what do u set 'shoot if their standing is....'?
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Audrea
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Posted - 2006.04.28 02:47:00 -
[53]
Edited by: Audrea on 28/04/2006 02:48:31
Originally by: Dianabolic
Originally by: Ilor Prophet
Edited by: Ilor Prophet on 27/04/2006 21:08:30
Perhaps, but the point is that the attackers should suffer some loss. By my understanding, the current system is such that NONE of the dreads will be destroyed because the POS will split its fire evenly amongst random targets. By comparison, this would be like forcing ships in a blob to each attack a different target. I don't see anyone advocating that, now do I? Why should the POS be any different?
Oh, and one more thing - a POS is not only a large initial cost, but has a huge consumables budget as well. That cost adds up over time. Do the ammunition consumption numbers on a Dreadnought come anywhere close?
BRING A FLEET!! BRING A FLEET!! BRING A FLEET!! BRING A FLEET!! BRING A FLEET!! BRING A FLEET!! BRING A FLEET!! BRING A FLEET!! BRING A FLEET!! BRING A FLEET!! BRING A FLEET!! BRING A FLEET!! BRING A FLEET!! BRING A FLEET!! BRING A FLEET!! BRING A FLEET!!
Jesus christ, "omg maaaaaaaaan I might need to actually defend this whaaaaaaaa why can't CCP do it for me!"
I've personally defended a medium pos from 4 dreads and a hostile 40bs fleet using TEN, yes TEN battleship pilots and a few support.
The pos was never destroyed.
Instead of whining to get your job done for you, why not just work it out and get with some friends and do it yourself?
I totally agree with you Dianabolic - small but determined group of defenders can repell an attack, or at least cause them some loose which might make them think twice.
BUT, it works only for alliances really - which can field say 20 defenders at any hour of the day.
What about smaller corps? whose members might not even be online for 2 days in row? why you think CCP designed POS to stay fueled for 7 days or so?
They need to be able to defend themself alone, without human support IMHO.
EDIT: Oh and what about all the stuff inside the POS? bpos, minerals, etc.
A pos can be very well worth beyond 10 bil with ships, minerals, bpos etc.
How many times we heard of POs raid and then stealing stuff which was inside shields? like HACs etc. countless times.
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All my posts are my own opinions and dont not represent any organization until stated otherwise. |
Seleene
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Posted - 2006.04.28 10:24:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Dianabolic
To kill a large caldari pos you're probably looking at upwards of 10k strontium.
At ~3k a unit, 300,00,000 isk.
Plus ammo (1k per shot).
Plus ur sitting in a ~2b isk ship, that took an accumulated time of more than a month to build.
That has build blue prints that total 20b isk.
That can only be built in 0.4.
That require nearly a year if you only trained up to dreads to become competent in.
That can only be moved using cynos.
That cost money to move.
That are completely and utterly defenseless against small ships and without a supporting fleet.
That are at your MERCY when they are at YOUR pos, as is the supporting fleet that HAS to warp in to defend them AND take losses IF you attack the dreads.
Stop whining about dreads against POS, start putting up the value of your wares so you can afford some merc reactive protection.
Diana, nice post and you are right on every point. The only problem is that attacking POS's is OMGWTF BORING! I agree that you should "bring a fleet" to defend the things, but that should not be the only answer.
I also have a huge problem with having to set up ten or more towers in a system just so I have time to assemble that defense fleet. Why? Because my billion isk + investment in each tower is essentially for nothing more than a virtual speed bump!
I have not run into a POS yet that even caused me one second of pause. When MC goes in, we overkill to the max and I can't remember a time when even against a Minnie tower with a full rack of minnie guns that my pilots were anything more than bored. Granted, we had a BS fleet and support along to discourage the locals, but it still struck me as a pathetic waste of money that was invested in that tower that had no chance at all of affecting the outcome of our attack.
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Who is the MC? Watch! |
Nicole KholdStare
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Posted - 2006.04.28 10:41:00 -
[55]
Maybe a solution would be to be able to place several towers at a moon provided you only have harvesters and reactors at one of them. Then you could do the same thing the attackers do - total overkill to ensure you can repel anyhting thrown at you. Pos Blob! 
Mercenary Contracts Available! Good rates - lethal service |
Dianabolic
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Posted - 2006.04.28 15:14:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Seleene
Because my billion isk + investment in each tower is essentially for nothing more than a virtual speed bump!
Though I do agree that that is indeed all they are - the height of the speedbump (we also call them sleeping policemen over here btw, I take great pleasure running over the filth :p) is decided by the amount of strontium in it. I pretty much never expect to prevent a POS from hitting reinforced if I'm defending it (though we've managed it a couple of times, mainly because we were already in a gang / fleet), I certainly do expect to prevent its destruction once it comes out of reinforced and the hostile entity comes back again.
The problem is, the only way to increase the time it takes to put a POS in to reinforced is to give them more HP (increase yawnage bleh) but all that would happen is that we'd bring even MORE dreads, and this discussion would pop up once again.
If we're to allow a pilot to board a pos and coordinate its fire then 2 things must happen:
It must take a hell of a long time to train for (I'm talking capital ships 5, <racial titan> 5, the whole works, 2 years of training.
Damage output of pos modules as they currently stand must be reduced ALOT, it must be absolutely impossible for any pos to focus continued fire on a dreadnought and kill it - but sure it can take it down to 20% armor each time and reduce the potential number of defenders required to do so.
That being said, I don't think either of those is a real option - I've attacked and defended pos, I think the system is about as balanced as it could possibly be and the only way to improve it without tipping the balance would be to inrease the *yawn* factor by increasing their hp.
Originally by: Thomas Jefferson
A society that will trade a little liberty for a little security will lose both and deserve neither
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Dianabolic
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Posted - 2006.04.28 15:15:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Nicole KholdStare
Maybe a solution would be to be able to place several towers at a moon provided you only have harvesters and reactors at one of them. Then you could do the same thing the attackers do - total overkill to ensure you can repel anyhting thrown at you. Pos Blob!
Nothing in eve is, or should be, "guarenteed" when it comes to player vs player.
Originally by: Thomas Jefferson
A society that will trade a little liberty for a little security will lose both and deserve neither
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Nicole KholdStare
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Posted - 2006.04.28 15:41:00 -
[58]
Edited by: Nicole KholdStare on 28/04/2006 15:42:23
Originally by: Dianabolic
Nothing in eve is, or should be, "guarenteed" when it comes to player vs player.
Well if you have the isk to fill up a moon with Towers why shouldn't you be able to? After all there's no set limit to the number of dreads you can bring (not taking into account lag). Eve is unique because players have the freedom to create enormous player-driven entities.
Mercenary Contracts Available! Good rates - lethal service |
Dianabolic
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Posted - 2006.04.28 17:14:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Nicole KholdStare
Edited by: Nicole KholdStare on 28/04/2006 15:42:23
Originally by: Dianabolic
Nothing in eve is, or should be, "guarenteed" when it comes to player vs player.
Well if you have the isk to fill up a moon with Towers why shouldn't you be able to? After all there's no set limit to the number of dreads you can bring (not taking into account lag). Eve is unique because players have the freedom to create enormous player-driven entities.
Because, thankfully, isk does not > *. If all I needed to do is throw money at something, and that would trump teamswork and cooperation, then eve would not be the game that it is.
Now, isk AND cooperation, sure.
Originally by: Thomas Jefferson
A society that will trade a little liberty for a little security will lose both and deserve neither
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Doddy
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Posted - 2006.04.30 15:59:00 -
[60]
While i agree that POS need better targetting dynamics, i think the current POS seige balance is otherwise fine. If u have a 2 Billion POS besiged by 10 Billion worth of dreads and u jump in 8 billion worth of dreads to protect it - who is going to win?
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