| Pages: [1] 2 3 :: one page |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Alexander Cachapero
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
0
   |
Posted - 2014.02.15 08:53:00 -
[1] - Quote
I just started playing EVE a little over a week ago and have been training a bit to get into a nice big battleship and ORE ship....I think I will find both fun to fly and on that note I was looking at a Machariel as a battleship and the Retriever as a mining. I want the battleship to be able to fight other players well so I will be able to just go on my merry way if someone decides to attack me because im flying a fancy ship and on that note I would like the mining ship to be able to not die horribly if suicide ganked (its never leaving hi-sec) Reccomendations? I have about two weeks left to have "enough" skill to fly the mach in missions...... |
Boris The-Animal
Lunar Max
0
|
Posted - 2014.02.15 09:03:00 -
[2] - Quote
The Machariel sounds like a great idea to me.  |
Schmata Bastanold
Black Rebel Rifter Club
The Devil's Tattoo
1417
|
Posted - 2014.02.15 09:03:00 -
[3] - Quote
Good luck flying mach in pvp with 3 weeks old character.
No, scratch that.
Good luck doing anything with any battleship with 3 weeks old character.
Sitting in a ship doesn't equal being able to fly it as it should be flown with proper fittings and usage of it's bonuses and role correctly.
I am not my skills but...
http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schmata_Bastanold |
Alexander Cachapero
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2014.02.15 09:11:00 -
[4] - Quote
I know that, just wondering if its a good hull for what I have in mind. For now not gonna fly it other than to take it home and hover it outside the station for about 30 secs to admire it......o and on the note of fittings what should I be looking at for a mach? I have a 6 billion budget for the BS and 500 mill for the miner |
Schmata Bastanold
Black Rebel Rifter Club
The Devil's Tattoo
1417
|
Posted - 2014.02.15 09:24:00 -
[5] - Quote
During those 30 seconds bunch of catalysts will suicide you and have nice killmail to laugh at empty or completely failfitted mach.
You wrote about using BS for pvp and now you just wanna undock it for a second and make nice screenshots in space? Well, Mach looks very nice on screenshots, that's true. Although for a price of hull alone you could fit 2 or even 3 proper pvp domis or typhoons and have some actual fun with them be that pve of pvp. But still, skills are what make those ships great in both areas. You don't have skills, you have embarrassing lossmail waiting to happen. And it will happen sooner that you think.
I know that you won't agree and you are free to do whatever you want, but I would first learn how to fly small ships before even thinking about moving to BS class. Without skills even BC will be too high, especially that recent cruisers rebalance made many of them capable of pretty awesome stuff. Learn how to use them before spending all your money on a hull that you will be disappointed with or lose it only because your skills were not up to ship's real requirements.
I am not my skills but...
http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schmata_Bastanold |
Alexander Cachapero
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2014.02.15 09:33:00 -
[6] - Quote
Schmata Bastanold wrote:During those 30 seconds bunch of catalysts will suicide you and have nice killmail to laugh at empty or completely failfitted mach.
You wrote about using BS for pvp and now you just wanna undock it for a second and make nice screenshots in space? Well, Mach looks very nice on screenshots, that's true. Although for a price of hull alone you could fit 2 or even 3 proper pvp domis or typhoons and have some actual fun with them be that pve of pvp. But still, skills are what make those ships great in both areas. You don't have skills, you have embarrassing lossmail waiting to happen. And it will happen sooner that you think.
I know that you won't agree and you are free to do whatever you want, but I would first learn how to fly small ships before even thinking about moving to BS class. Without skills even BC will be too high, especially that recent cruisers rebalance made many of them capable of pretty awesome stuff. Learn how to use them before spending all your money on a hull that you will be disappointed with or lose it only because your skills were not up to ship's real requirements.
Im not gonna be flying it for at least 4 months......even then its not going to leave Hi-sec. Im also fully aware that I dont have anywhere near enough skill at 3 weeks and I totaly agree that its a horrible idea to fly anything you don't have skill for (hence why im still not even bothering to buy a destroyer) but regaurdless, im looking to get a higher end ship and start gathering gear for it now. PVP is the long term goal once ive learned to fly normal BS and have practiced for a while on my nice one (whatever that ends up being) I have no intentions of being the dumb noob who thinks that battleships are invincible and flys one right to its death via getting suicide ganked or other wise. Im just LOOKING at high-end ships so if the market swings low for the one I want I can buy it and not worry that I wont like it once I can use it. |
Katie Khardoula
Viziam
Amarr Empire
4
|
Posted - 2014.02.15 09:43:00 -
[7] - Quote
Quote:Im not gonna be flying it for at least 4 months......even then its not going to leave Hi-sec. Im also fully aware that I dont have anywhere near enough skill at 3 weeks and I totaly agree that its a horrible idea to fly anything you don't have skill for (hence why im still not even bothering to buy a destroyer) but regaurdless, im looking to get a higher end ship and start gathering gear for it now. PVP is the long term goal once ive learned to fly normal BS and have practiced for a while on my nice one (whatever that ends up being) I have no intentions of being the dumb noob who thinks that battleships are invincible and flys one right to its death via getting suicide ganked or other wise. Im just LOOKING at high-end ships so if the market swings low for the one I want I can buy it and not worry that I wont like it once I can use it.
So....what are you looking for, exactly?
Seriously though. Dont do it. You're going to be waiting for AT LEAST a year before you can competently fly that mach in pvp. Even then, i'd advise against it.
Seriously man, take our advice and the subtle suggestions to heart and do stuff with frigs first.
You'll thank us later
Every time I see the first poster replying to the OP by quoting his entire post, I want to punch a baby |
Alexander Cachapero
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2014.02.15 09:45:00 -
[8] - Quote
So I shouldn't even bother buying it at this point then? How long will I have to train till it can be used {run and NOT die} for L3/4 missions? |
Schmata Bastanold
Black Rebel Rifter Club
The Devil's Tattoo
1417
|
Posted - 2014.02.15 10:01:00 -
[9] - Quote
Ok, I get what you are saying. Having that shiny ship in your hangar is nice even if you can't board it. I really get that because 2 years ago I was thinking along same lines. Fortunately for me I was always too poor to afford such ship so I didn't get one until I actually needed it.
Thing is market will never swing so much down for you to grab Mach or any other shiny hull without sacrificing all of your ISK or at least huge part of it. I didn't check recent prices but I guess Mach is still around 800mil - 1bil? That is a LOT of ISK for a newbie and if you have that amount lying around it will be better spend on skills you need right now or implants or modules that will help you right now.
As a long term goal Mach or its faction equivalents for other factions are ok and training towards them won't be a mistake becayse they demand you to have pretty high skills to fly properly. And most of those skills will be useful for any other ship you will fly, except weapon system because obviously large arty spec doesn't influence lazors or hybrids or missiles in any way. But all those in-game and out-of-game skills you need to fly them properly are built upon your experience and training for smaller hulls and their fittings.
I also always wanted to fly mach so what I did was checking what skills I would need to it and which lower class hulls shared those skills at their respective levels. For example mach is all about speed and falloff, you don't like to move you should fly sentry sniping domi. So what lower class hulls also depend on speed? What are their bonuses, how they are fitted, etc.
I am not my skills but...
http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schmata_Bastanold |
Gregor Parud
235
|
Posted - 2014.02.15 10:04:00 -
[10] - Quote
Pirate ships are about to rebalanced and the Mach will be "nerfed" (or rather made less silly), so by the time you might have a use for it, if at all, it may be terrible or completely changed its strategy.
Apart from that, don't make expensive/really cool hulls your goal, especially not in PVP. Funky ships like that don't give new/inexperienced pilots wins, they just give them cringe worthy losses. |
Alexander Cachapero
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2014.02.15 10:11:00 -
[11] - Quote
Thanks, those are answers that are very helpful. So according to what you guys are saying I should A. Wait till after the nerf to see if I still want the Mach and B. practice tactics in things I don't care blow up? O and what skills should I have reguardless of what I'm flying (like i have no clue what its going to be) if I'm going to be flying BS sized things eventually? |
Schmata Bastanold
Black Rebel Rifter Club
The Devil's Tattoo
1417
|
Posted - 2014.02.15 10:43:00 -
[12] - Quote
Using potential nerfs or buffs for planing your skills is stupid. Nobody knows what devs will do to any of ships waiting for balancing although it is common to expect them being rather nerfed than rest being buffed to match those considered overpowered. But right now it is jelly crowd hopes and dreams based on what main rebalance dev wrote like a 2 years ago and some long forgotten thread about tiercide plans.
Beside, when I was starting rifter was considered to be a god of t1 frig pvp. Tiercide buffed all other frigs and left rifter bascially unchanged. So now it is considered as complete fail to fly. But I have max skills for frigs from times when rifter was god and now I can fly slashers with max efficiency simply because all max skills from rifter are basically same as those for slasher. And that is true no matter what ship class you look at.
When you are starting you cannot go wrong with fitting skills and core skills like gunnery, navigation, mechanics, etc. They will apply to anything you fly from t1 frigs to capitals. And they mostly are x1 or x2 skills so taking them to V is quick. There is plenty of info about such newbie plans around this very forum, just search for it.
I am not my skills but...
http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schmata_Bastanold |
Elena Thiesant
Sun Micro Systems
1262
|
Posted - 2014.02.15 11:05:00 -
[13] - Quote
Alexander Cachapero wrote:I want the battleship to be able to fight other players well so I will be able to just go on my merry way if someone decides to attack me because im flying a fancy ship
If someone decides to attack you, they will likely know in advance that they have a good chance of killing you. Otherwise they wouldn't attack. Flying a fancy ship just means a larger loss.
If you want to PVP, fly frigates, they're a little cheaper to replace.
|
Hrett
Justified Chaos
335
|
Posted - 2014.02.15 13:22:00 -
[14] - Quote
Alexander Cachapero wrote:Thanks, those are answers that are very helpful. So according to what you guys are saying I should A. Wait till after the nerf to see if I still want the Mach and B. practice tactics in things I don't care blow up? O and what skills should I have reguardless of what I'm flying (like i have no clue what its going to be) if I'm going to be flying BS sized things eventually?
I think what they are saying is train your skills up first. Just because you can sit in something doesn't mean you can fly it well. You need personal piloting experience and hard skill experience. Train your core skills first (navigation, capacitor, armor or shield, fitting) and a single weapon system say up to cruiser level. Mining too if you want it. Slowly move up ship classes. For personal experience in PVP, I suggest RvB or FW or Eve University, Agony, Brave Newbies, etc.
Basically, high-sec vets lick their chops over failfit blingy ships flown by newbie characters. They point and laugh at the kill mails and post them in corp chat and on the forums. Don't be one of those. ;)
I'm probably typing on an iPad, which means the auto-correct is silly and fixing typos is a pain. I ain't fixing them. |
Goldennuggets
Bath Salt Abusers
0
|
Posted - 2014.02.15 13:29:00 -
[15] - Quote
you said you have 6.5 bil to spend... why not purchase a character with decent skills on the character bazaar? it might not have perfect skills but im sure you could buy a good lvl 4 mission running character. |
Alexander Cachapero
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2014.02.15 16:53:00 -
[16] - Quote
I didn't know it was possible to buy characters, thanks for the info |
Karak Bol
Low-Sec Survival Ltd.
172
|
Posted - 2014.02.15 17:06:00 -
[17] - Quote
My advice: Work you way up to bigger ship classes and learn PvP in each of them. (And never again say Higher-end Ship, a frigate can just be as high end as a Titan. The best pilots I know mastered many sizes (or at least a wide variety of subcapitals)
Start with a Slasher/Rifter until you can fly it T2 fitted with lvl 4 skills, try a few Thrashers then change to a lets say Stabber until you can T2 fit it with some lvl 5 skills. Now a few Hurricanes and next up would be lets say a Tempest (Closest Minmatar BS to a Macha). Get more lvl 5s up. (Mix some faction ships in between)
Final hint: Do not buy a char. Its a shortcut yes, but you will miss the enjoyment of changing from a Newbie to a Combat pilot. Read as much as you can, google is your friend. |
Alexander Cachapero
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2014.02.15 17:19:00 -
[18] - Quote
So buy a pack of rifters and just slowly work toward a nice faction ship? |
Aralieus
The Inf1dels
Insidious Empire
204
|
Posted - 2014.02.15 17:29:00 -
[19] - Quote
Having the right skills for a ship can make a world of difference, like night and day. I used to have so many problems with my Abbadon like guns not reaching or tracking, capacitor being empty in less than 2 minutes, tank failing horribly, when I released my drones they would hover around my ship and taunt me and it handled like a ****** on a bicycle. Once I skilled up the right things its an absolute monster when I get behind the wheel. Bigger isn't always better...definitely not until you're skilled properly.
Oderint Dum Metuant |
Antillie Sa'Kan
Forging Industries
Silent Infinity
365
|
Posted - 2014.02.15 18:00:00 -
[20] - Quote
Aralieus wrote:Having the right skills for a ship can make a world of difference, like night and day. I used to have so many problems with my Abbadon like guns not reaching or tracking, capacitor being empty in less than 2 minutes, tank failing horribly, when I released my drones they would hover around my ship and taunt me and it handled like a ****** on a bicycle. Once I skilled up the right things its an absolute monster when I get behind the wheel. Bigger isn't always better...definitely not until you're skilled properly.
This is completely true. Except that it applies to all ship classes. Not just the large ones. There is a huge and scary difference between a poorly skilled frigate/AF/Interceptor and a maxed out one. |
Gregor Parud
239
|
Posted - 2014.02.15 18:44:00 -
[21] - Quote
Alexander Cachapero wrote:So buy a pack of rifters and just slowly work toward a nice faction ship?
What you need isn't a bigger or more expensive ship, you need knowledge and experience. it'll take you dozens/hundreds of losses before you might get the hang of it, might as well be cheap losses. Enjoy small ships like frigates and perhaps at some point cruiser hulls, soak up the experience, get better, understand more, learn more and then, perhaps, move on to funky stuff. |
Alexander Cachapero
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2014.02.15 19:17:00 -
[22] - Quote
So if skills play such a huge differance should I attempt to get all of mine to level 5 if they are combat centered? |
Alexander Cachapero
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2014.02.16 04:51:00 -
[23] - Quote
Okay i just found out that the ships info page tell you what is recoemned and needed, guess i know what to get now! |
Victoria Thorne
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2014.02.16 05:09:00 -
[24] - Quote
It's always a good idea to get your skills up to level 5 for whatever your interests are. I assume that by Valiant, you mean Vigilant.
You might consider buying a few Thorax's and taking them through their paces first. You can afford to lose 20 or so Thorax's for the price of one Vigilant. My advise is to get some experience under your belt before taking the more expensive ships into pvp. (Both in skill levels & actual player skill.) That said, if you can afford to learn and lose on faction ships, more power to you, I suppose.
My advise - buy 20 frigates of your choice. Lose them. Buy 20 more, lose them too. Repeat until you feel comfortable. Then do the same for cruisers. Once you feel good about your chances in a Thorax, you could consider giving a Vigilant a spin. Otherwise it's very likely that you'll just be giving someone else a very nice kill. |
Alexander Cachapero
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2014.02.16 10:18:00 -
[25] - Quote
Thanks for the warning......just bought a pack of 5 thoraxs and yeah.....good thing it wasnt the vigilant cuz i would have been just a little ticked off, got mobbed by frigs and died  |
Goldensaver
Lom Corporation
Brothers of Tangra
367
|
Posted - 2014.02.16 11:10:00 -
[26] - Quote
Alexander Cachapero wrote:So if skills play such a huge differance should I attempt to get all of mine to level 5 if they are combat centered? Would it be okay in your guys opinion to get a valiant and use it for a while? Because it seems to be quite a nice cruiser.
Start with getting everything relevant to 3. At a bare minimum. That's probably the greatest point between time spent and value of increase. From there, get them all to 4. 4 is usually an alright standard, you're at 85%+ of maximum efficiency with the ship for the most part.
Most important skills I'd recommend:
Power Grid Management (V)
CPU Management (V)
Weapon Upgrades (IV)
Hull Upgrades (IV)
Shield Management (IV)
Mechanics (IV)
Navigation (IV)
Capacitor Management (IV)
Capacitor Systems Operation (IV)
Acceleration Control (IV)
That's not to say simply stop there. I'd just say that's the beginning of laying down a good core. You've maxed the two most important fitting skills with that, allowing you to (for the most part) properly fit your ship. You've attempted to maximize your buffer on any ship by increasing your shield, armour, and hull buffer by 20%, and you've gained the ability to use the Damage Control II module, potentially one of the strongest modules in PvP. You've got some basic capacitor management, hopefully making it so you don't run out of cap at the worst of times. And you've trained up your speed so you can try to keep within your preferred range.
More is better, but that is good in addition to minimum III's for all other important ship specific skills.
Oh, and the ship loss plan laid out by Victoria Thorne is always great advice. Keep flying until you start finding success. You won't win every time, but you want to try as hard as you can to make sure you win as much as possible.
Oh, and the cardinal rule of EVE:
"Don't fly what you can't afford to lose." |
Jacob Holland
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
249
|
Posted - 2014.02.16 11:42:00 -
[27] - Quote
The bigger ships look awesome and they feel like they ought to be awesome. But a lot of that is illusiory.
EVE's systems are set-up so that you can fight your own weight class or higher but smaller ships are really difficult for big ships to handle. There are ways by which big ships can be made to be brutal to smaller ones but, in general, the specialisation comes at a hefty price.
With the budget you have I would suggest that a single, large asset (like a fitted Macherial) would be a poor method of investment. You would be better sinking some of that money into things with a much shorter return, things which will pay off now or in the next few weeks. Implants to accelerate your skillpoint gain and mitigate the issues which are going to arise from but your character's skills and the lessons you haven't learned yet for example.
Your have your experience with your Thoraxes as an example. Why were the frigates able to mob you? How could you have survived longer? killed more of them? Were your weapons hitting and if not how could you make them work better? |
Arsine Mayhem
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
126
|
Posted - 2014.02.16 13:19:00 -
[28] - Quote
When you do figure out what ship(s) you want to fly, start:
http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Template:ShipsMatrix
for fittings.
Also setup and use evemon to plan training. http://evemon.battleclinic.com |
Shrike Crendraven
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2014.02.16 17:42:00 -
[29] - Quote
Alexander Cachapero wrote:Thanks for the warning......just bought a pack of 5 thoraxs and yeah.....good thing it wasnt the vigilant cuz i would have been just a little ticked off, got mobbed by frigs and died
Buy the big, awesome ship that you want so bad....
Try to *fit* it and compare the values with "goal" fit from EFT.
Then leave it for next few months in dock and fly frigate/destroyer ;-D
I went that route.
I have my ship, im happy. Every now and then i do the 10 jumps trip to visit it and stare at it for few moments, then i go back to my destroyer :D
|
Victoria Thorne
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
5
|
Posted - 2014.02.16 18:19:00 -
[30] - Quote
Goldensaver's and Jacob Holland's advise above is quite good.
One thing to add:
A more powerful more expensive ship in EVE makes you more of a target, not less of one. (Unlike most games.)
In low-sec, you might have someone decide not engage your Vigilant or Mach, but it's likely that you'd be meeting them and their friends shortly afterwards. (Or them turning back up in a ship that they consider more appropriate to kill what you are flying.)
In high-sec, a Mach will draw more attention than a Tempest or a Maelstrom. (It's more likely to be fitted with expensive stuff, so it will be a higher priority for gankers to take a look at.) It also tends to be better to learn to mission on cheaper ships, it's quite possible to lose a faction battleship in a level 4, if you have no idea what you are doing. (If you know what you are doing and lose one, that's a different story.)
That said, a Mach is a great long term goal. I love mine.  |
| |
|
| Pages: [1] 2 3 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |