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Beletre	Posted - 2006.04.12 15:41:00 - [1] We have it, they want it. It's a point of friction that can easily lead to massive trouble by continueing to rub salt into old wounds. So, we trade it back, let them reinhabit the planet with various limitations... keep weapons in check, keep tabs on potential spies, etc etc. The question is, if we trade it.... what do we trade for? In short, what do the Caldari have that the Federation wants?
Shemar	Posted - 2006.04.12 15:52:00 - [2] We could never ever ever (did I mention ever?) trust the Caldari inhabiting a planet in the same system as the Federation's capital. It can simply never happen. There is nothing the Caldari could possibly give, no promises they could possibly make to make it worth the risk. ________________ Enhanced eye sight does not make up for the lack of vision
Beletre	Posted - 2006.04.12 16:11:00 - [3] Not saying it wouldn't be without risk. Thus the various restrictions put in place. Maybe allow only certain culturally important individuals on the surface, thus shoudl there be hosilities, can use them in a hostage fashion. But still fails to answer the central question.... do they have anything we want? Raw money and resources, sure, but can get those anywhere...
Svetlana Scarlet	Posted - 2006.04.12 16:26:00 - [4] Caldari Prime is nothing more than hollow sentiment at this point -- your Federation razed anything of value and bathed it in the blood of martyrs. The Caldari State -- and the Federation -- need to move on and stop being fixated on what is now simply another piece of rock spinning around Luminaire. The State has made a new home for our people, and we should focus on building its strength, not wasting time trying to figure out how to hold an unteneable piece of territory within the Federation that serves no real purpose. Leave Caldari Prime to the Gallente. Let it be a reminder to them of what we will sacrifice for victory, should they make the mistake of thinking they can bring us back into their bloated and backward Federation once more. -- LCDR Svetlana Scarlet Deputy Quartermaster Captain, CNS Redball Express Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
Eden Ramani	Posted - 2006.04.12 17:36:00 - [5] Edited by: Eden Ramani on 12/04/2006 17:36:55 The burnt out husk of Caldari Prime shows us the totalitarianism capable is the so-called Democracy of the Federation. If a people choose to join, they can choose to leave. This holocaust caused by the Federation will forever remind us Intaki that should the Placid Region someday attempt to secede from the Federation, we must be vigilant and strong and gather our forces before the Gallente can send in a fleet aimed at literally silencing any opposition to the Gallente way with the murderous sounds of planetary bombardment. Caldari Prime tells us the Gallente will act in as dark a manner necessary to insure its autocracy. I am most pleased to see Caldari Prime so close to Luminair, an ever-present reminder.
Vayren Neyon	Posted - 2006.04.12 18:18:00 - [6] Finally, some semi-intelligent Caldari. All that Prime stands for in my eyes is an old war-trophy; a trophy that the Gallente aquired in equal-war conquest. They got it, we lost. Boo-hoo, the industry moves on. Even if the fools somehow managed to rally the Head Corperations into agreeing to a trade, the most we can give is another system of semi-equal value. It isn't worth giving up a decently inhabited and well-remaining planet for a war-scarred battlefield of bad memories. All it would/does serve for is a constant reminder that we lost the war because we fell behind. I beleve it's time to move on. ____________________________________ In the end, ask yourself this: "How did I profit from that action?"
Shemar	Posted - 2006.04.12 18:30:00 - [7] Eden Ramani, Your uninformed and unintelligent blabbering showcases your complete lack of historical knowledge or perspective or what the current Federation, over two centuries evolved from the tragedy of the Caldari Prime bombing, stands for. ________________ Enhanced eye sight does not make up for the lack of vision
Karl Mattar	Posted - 2006.04.12 19:31:00 - [8] Shemar, If your Federation were truly so enlightened, and Caldari Prime so worthless, then you would give it to us as a means to make amends. Until then, it will remain to us a symbol and a rallying cry. The growing population of true Caldari patriots will someday return home. The only thing you can do is hope it is not within your lifetime.
Shemar	Posted - 2006.04.12 19:39:00 - [9] I couldn't care less about Caldari Prime as 'territory', but it is clear that the Federation can never trust the Caldari to occupy a planet so close to our own center of government. I assure you, if Caldari Prime's location was non-threatening to the Federation I would be advocating it's return to you. However, having said that, I have to say that any threats and illusions about forcibly taking it back only make me laugh. ________________ Enhanced eye sight does not make up for the lack of vision
Scorpyn	Posted - 2006.04.12 20:12:00 - [10] Originally by: Shemar I couldn't care less about Caldari Prime as 'territory', but it is clear that the Federation can never trust the Caldari to occupy a planet so close to our own center of government. For some reason I find it rather funny that the Federation considers its government to be somewhat important. I suppose that I would be under the same illusion myself if I was gallente though. _____________________________________ meep meep This sig will self-destruct.
Nikolai Nuvolari	Posted - 2006.04.12 20:18:00 - [11] Not today, not tomorrow, and not under a hail of gunfire...but eventually it will happen. Haak-kin k'len. -------- Tom Thumb > for a nut case you rawk [04:21:15] Mebrithiel Ju'wien > Nik's bio 4tw btw [07:38:53] Graelyn > Nikolai for Dev 108!
Halunoto Vankaalen	Posted - 2006.04.12 20:27:00 - [12] I'm afraid trade won't come into the equation. Several millenia of Caldari cultural development, the Raata-Oryioni and the Fuukiuye centres. Even the CDS if you count that as groundbreaker. It's all there. And when the opportunity comes, and it will come in the coming months, I can assure you of that then I believe it will be reclaimed. When that happens, I have a feeling Gallente Prime will be viewed in a whole different way. ----- Disembarkation Room
Beletre	Posted - 2006.04.12 20:34:00 - [13] Most of the population isn't so generous as to just 'give' a planet, hence the inquiry for a trade. Am personally of the opinion that a peaceful transfer in the long run will bring less bloodshed than continueing to try and hold it. Any thoughts of technology to safely move the planet to a diffrent star? Someplace not so sensitive?
Tantel Ramas	Posted - 2006.04.12 20:35:00 - [14] Originally by: Karl Mattar Until then, it will remain to us a symbol and a rallying cry. The growing population of true Caldari patriots will someday return home. The only thing you can do is hope it is not within your lifetime. Oh really? It doesn't even seem that other members of your corporation, let alone the Caldari 'State, agree on that. Originally by: Svetlana Scarlet Caldari Prime is nothing more than hollow sentiment at this point -- your Federation razed anything of value and bathed it in the blood of martyrs. The Caldari State -- and the Federation -- need to move on and stop being fixated on what is now simply another piece of rock spinning around Luminaire. The State has made a new home for our people, and we should focus on building its strength, not wasting time trying to figure out how to hold an unteneable piece of territory within the Federation that serves no real purpose. Leave Caldari Prime to the Gallente...
Eojek	Posted - 2006.04.12 20:42:00 - [15] I say keep the system a demilitarized zone, with the region secured completely by an independant entity.
Beletre	Posted - 2006.04.12 21:15:00 - [16] An intresting idea, but too much commercial and industral investment. Besides, who to serve as a third party agreeable to both sides?
Vendrin	Posted - 2006.04.12 21:47:00 - [17] Caldari Prime is dead and gone. Even if we were to recover it, through trade or war, we could never make it what it once was. Leave it as a memorial to push us onward. _____________________________________ Need help in Caldari Space? Join channel CCDF to give or recieve it.
Shemar	Posted - 2006.04.12 21:50:00 - [18] Originally by: Halunoto Vankaalen And when the opportunity comes, and it will come in the coming months, I can assure you of that then I believe it will be reclaimed. When that happens, I have a feeling Gallente Prime will be viewed in a whole different way. Keep dreaming drone boy... Coming months huh? I'll make you a bet.. a challenge... In a year's time Luminaire will still be Gallente Sovereign territory. I am willing to bet 5 billion ISK on that. Up for it? Furthermore, I am willing to double the amount for each following year. So 10 billion for two years. 20 billion for 3 years and so on. Care to put your money where your mouth is? ________________ Enhanced eye sight does not make up for the lack of vision
Kailea Shandrasekkar	Posted - 2006.04.12 22:29:00 - [19] Originally by: Shemar In a year's time Luminaire will still be Gallente Sovereign territory. I am willing to bet 5 billion ISK on that. Up for it? I think now is a appropriate moment to thank the Gallente who teached us a valuable lesson: Nothing is eternal. One day, the Gallente will learn it too. if it'll be the easy or the hard way, that's not for me to predict. But i can guess; what goes around, comes around.
Karl Mattar	Posted - 2006.04.12 22:35:00 - [20] Originally by: Tantel Ramas Oh really? It doesn't even seem that other members of your corporation, let alone the Caldari 'State, agree on that. Most of us are not as ... forgiving ... as she is. --- Karl Mattar Commander, CNS Rock Hound
Kyoko Sakoda	Posted - 2006.04.12 22:53:00 - [21] I've only been skimming internal Caldari politics and popular opinion recently (thanks, Ishukone), but I can see the Patriot faction is more than alive and well... things have indeed changed the last few months. Learn what it means to be Caldari - www.omertasyndicate.com
Val Erian	Posted - 2006.04.12 23:31:00 - [22] I really tried to resist commenting on this never ending topic but.... There seems to be amoung some people, lets call it a misconception, frozen at the time of the war of an image that Caldari Prime is a 'burn't out husk of a world, a destroyed planet. That is not that case there is a huge population of , thriving cities, industry etc. Just go visit the planet you can see the population centers from space.
Shemar	Posted - 2006.04.13 00:34:00 - [23] Originally by: Kailea Shandrasekkar Originally by: Shemar In a year's time Luminaire will still be Gallente Sovereign territory. I am willing to bet 5 billion ISK on that. Up for it? I think now is a appropriate moment to thank the Gallente who teached us a valuable lesson: Nothing is eternal. Actually, the lesson here is that the Caldari are not the only ones looking for profit. I'd make you a bet for 10 or 50 or 200 years, but unfortunatly I probably won't be around to collect it... ________________ Enhanced eye sight does not make up for the lack of vision
Halunoto Vankaalen	Posted - 2006.04.13 00:51:00 - [24] Edited by: Halunoto Vankaalen on 13/04/2006 00:51:51 Originally by: Shemar Care to put your money where your mouth is? Why certainly, regaining Caldari Prime and having you pay me in the process is a good situation indeed, rather profitable. And, loathe as I am to agree with him, Erian is right. Caldari Prime is far from burnt up, the fact that millions of civilians managed to hide from the Federal genocide squads for days until Tovil-Toba could peform his ultimate sacrifice are testamount to that fact. One might also consider the lights of the planet, that denote cities as further proof it is not a lifeless husk, or "dead and gone." ----- Disembarkation Room
Malthros Zenobia	Posted - 2006.04.13 00:57:00 - [25] Originally by: Shemar We could never ever ever (did I mention ever?) trust the Caldari inhabiting a planet in the same system as the Federation's capital. It can simply never happen. There is nothing the Caldari could possibly give, no promises they could possibly make to make it worth the risk. Agreed, you'd just bomb us again as soon as you got the chance. The Federation can stand how much we've suprassed them in everything other than filth. Originally by: Dark Shikari Istvaan Shogaatsu's ego, when combined with a veldspar asteroid, would create 500 titans. Too bad he's never mined. RAWR!11 Sig Hijack!11 - Imaran
Malthros Zenobia	Posted - 2006.04.13 01:04:00 - [26] Originally by: Tantel Ramas Originally by: Karl Mattar Until then, it will remain to us a symbol and a rallying cry. The growing population of true Caldari patriots will someday return home. The only thing you can do is hope it is not within your lifetime. Oh really? It doesn't even seem that other members of your corporation, let alone the Caldari 'State, agree on that. CAIN is comprised of all types of Caldari. Not all of our people have the same opinions about various topics, nor are they forced to have their views. Life in your coporation must be boring if all of you have the exact same opinions. Originally by: Dark Shikari Istvaan Shogaatsu's ego, when combined with a veldspar asteroid, would create 500 titans. Too bad he's never mined. RAWR!11 Sig Hijack!11 - Imaran
Kailea Shandrasekkar	Posted - 2006.04.13 01:49:00 - [27] Originally by: Shemar Actually, the lesson here is that the Caldari are not the only ones looking for profit. I'd make you a bet for 10 or 50 or 200 years, but unfortunatly I probably won't be around to collect it... Don't be a cheapstake and keep buying younger clones. I'd prefer you to be alive and watching the show. I'll be there, savoring it.
Eden Ramani	Posted - 2006.04.13 02:21:00 - [28] wow shemar you are a perfect exsample of the gallente rude, arrogant and thinking you are always right. further those who would disagree with you get mouthed off at. and yet of course true to the gallente you are all words and no might, even i know how pathetic the GLS is and I am quite new. you are what is wrong with the Federation, do it a favor and overdose.
Tarsha Listur	Posted - 2006.04.13 04:40:00 - [29] 1. we had a fascist government that was overthrown, consider 2. intaki free state, and loose everything we have gained for a measure of false pride.. 3. i doubt anyone has ever said it, but we are sorry for caldari prime 4.as to the gls bashing intaki, care to repeat now i am here! i2.tinypic.com/t5jg60.jpg[/IMG] Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 kbs, ty - Cortes
Malthros Zenobia	Posted - 2006.04.13 04:53:00 - [30] Originally by: Tarsha Listur 2. intaki free state, and loose everything we have gained for a measure of false pride.. Actually, a free intaki state would most likely be able to become a recognized enity, and gain CONCORD patrols, which the Federation seems to not care to give them now. They would also be able to choose how they run themselves, and lets face it, when you see how well the last group to leave the Gallente Federation is doing, who wouldn't want to leave? Even the name of the government you are under reeks with inequality... "Gallente" Federation. It's just a shame your current leader seems to forget his own people. Originally by: Dark Shikari Istvaan Shogaatsu's ego, when combined with a veldspar asteroid, would create 500 titans. Too bad he's never mined. RAWR!11 Sig Hijack!11 - Imaran

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