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Eternal Fury
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Posted - 2006.04.13 03:24:00 -
[31]
One thing to remember is that it will take a long time for Vista to be taken up by the general gameing public.
You should have no problem running Vista on a non-DX10 system. Remember folks, Microsoft is ALREADY branding computers as "vista compatable" with onboard graphics.
I mean comeon.. ON BOARD GRAPHICS are vista compatable.
Anything that is a seperate videocard should run fine.
Now, unless the devs make the vista compatable version of Eve NOT able to use non-DX10 graphics cards, THEN we'd be in trouble.
Thing is, Microsoft is nortorious for saying that arn't going to do something, then doing it later on.
So I can see a DX10 upgrade patch for XP not too far in the future. Probobly the summer after Vista ships.
Dunno about you guys, but I'll probobly be getting vista within 2-3 months of it shipping.
demand is greater then supply = high price.
supply is greater then demand = low price.
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Phoenix Lord
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Posted - 2006.04.13 03:30:00 -
[32]
Ill probably get vista fairly early too. The only thing that i see i would need to upgrade is my GPU and MAYBE my motherboard if the DX10 cards arent going to be AGP at all. I already have a 64 bit CPU and 1 gig a ram.
Ill probably get it the way ive always been getting my OSes, but ill test it on my crap computer first.
Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 kbs, ty - Cortes
It was 24153bytes... |
Xikoro Imar
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Posted - 2006.04.13 03:37:00 -
[33]
If CCP really makes the graphical upgrades Vista dependant I am unsubscribing for sure. Use OpenGL, not the monopoly-enforcer that is DX10. |
Dak Hakin
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Posted - 2006.04.13 04:15:00 -
[34]
the sky is falling the sky is falling!
_______________________________________________
I am the devil, and I'm here to do the devils work.
Mr. Grumpy-sour-pus
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Snake Jankins
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Posted - 2006.04.13 05:02:00 -
[35]
There is a difference between saying that current hardware 'vista compatible' and if that hardware really fully supports DX-10 graphics (in hardware).
I mean I and many others still use a DirectX 8 graphics cards under DirectX 9.0c e.g. the GeForce 4/Ti series.
Works with DirectX 9.0c, but some non-crucial functions are missing or emulated in software, so real DirectX 9 games doesn't look that good and/or run really crappy.
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'Only ships can be assembled, this is a Frigate.' |
Alekzander
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Posted - 2006.04.13 05:15:00 -
[36]
DX10 is still incomplete, there is no current card out there currently that has any DX10 features because DX10 isn't around to build a card for. I am happy with my two 6800 GT's and I thought it smart to skip the whole 7X00 series and wait for the DX 10 cards (that and I need a sli-32 board). This way, I have DX 10 cards with OMGDROOL graphics without wasting money on cards that can't support this stuff, vista does not require dx10 to run from the rumors I've heard.
AGP cards end with the 7x00 series from what I heard, the PCIe bus is so much more capable that it's pointless to make an AGP card with 1/2 the power on being the same referance design as the PCIe card. That and SLI/Crossfire rigs are becoming more mainstream in the gaming industry. Sixty-four bit, dual core and other cpus are also becoming more prevalant with quad core cpu's not that far away on the horision.
Look for DX10 cards to start showing up in q3 or q4 2006.
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Mike Moss
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Posted - 2006.04.13 05:26:00 -
[37]
Based on past microsoft releases, I will not be getting Vista until at earliest service pack 1, maybe 2 depending on whst the tech sites have to say. All of this a couple years away. Meanwhile ...
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Karol Kei
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Posted - 2006.04.13 06:10:00 -
[38]
I sincerely hope that they have looked into all the other things that MS will force upon us with Vista. Vista is evil, just look it up. I don't want it near my computers.
I was hoping they would go with a non MS API for the new engine. I was expecting them to go with DX9.0c.
This is bad news.
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Jenny Spitfire
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Posted - 2006.04.13 06:43:00 -
[39]
I wish to be a 3rd class citizen of EvE and I hope CCP can provide me with a no frills Text/Isometric Polygonal (black and white) based client.  
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RecruitMe@NOINT! |
Azure Skyclad
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Posted - 2006.04.13 07:08:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Azure Skyclad on 13/04/2006 07:09:53
 Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
I wish to be a 3rd class citizen of EvE and I hope CCP can provide me with a no frills Text/Isometric Polygonal (black and white) based client.
Elite > Anything.
Elite Mod for EvE might be.....interesting. If only for the novelty value.
(Edit: By Elite i mean Elite..Not Frontier or Frontier 2. BBC Model B/Commodore 64/ ZX Spectrum stylee)
http://www.voodoorockers.co.uk/ |
Harry Voyager
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Posted - 2006.04.13 07:16:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Phoenix Lord
Originally by: PROTOCOL
Originally by: Phoenix Lord
Originally by: PROTOCOL
Everytime a thread like this pops up I oft wonder of anybody looks at this from a business standpoint. They already have a decent dx9c engine. They have identified the need for a significant investment in a new engine, one that will carry them into the future. Developing any significant piece of software is a tremendous capital investment, an investment in a new graphics engine for CCP will have to return on their investment for quite some time, can you honestly say that a new dx9c engine will have a significant ROI in 2 years from now? How about 3?
You may like to classify yourself as a second class citizen, the folks over at eve will more than likely refer to you as a first gen engine citizen.
Since when did EVE-O use any DX9 graphical components?
since when I don't know, but it is indicated in the sys reqs
from the FAQ
Minimum System Requirements:
Windows« System 2000/XP OS
Intel Pentium« III 800 MHz or AMD Athlon 800 MHz
512 MB or more of RAM
DirectX« 9.0c (included) and latest video drivers
6.0 GB available HD space
4x CD-ROM drive
A 56k or better Internet connection
32 MB 3D graphics card with Hardware Transform and Lighting, such as NVIDIA« GeForceÖ 2 class card or above
To check whether your card meets these requirements check with your card manufacturer:
CCP probably just updated the engine to be compatable with DX9.0c... but EVE definately doesnt use any graphical features of DX9 like SM/PS 2.0 or 3.0, or things like bump mapping either.
All the Dx9c requirement means is that the last updates to the game were compiled with the current Dx9c headers and .dll's. You can do that with a Dx1 coded game, and get the same results.
Harry Voyager
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Jenny Spitfire
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Posted - 2006.04.13 07:17:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Azure Skyclad
Edited by: Azure Skyclad on 13/04/2006 07:09:53
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
I wish to be a 3rd class citizen of EvE and I hope CCP can provide me with a no frills Text/Isometric Polygonal (black and white) based client.
Elite > Anything.
Elite Mod for EvE might be.....interesting. If only for the novelty value.
(Edit: By Elite i mean Elite..Not Frontier or Frontier 2. BBC Model B/Commodore 64/ ZX Spectrum stylee)
Not really. By having a B&W client, I get the following advantages.
1. Almost lag free client.
2. Better performance in fleet battles.
3. More tactical because any black dot in screen must be a ship.
4. Better visibility.
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RecruitMe@NOINT! |
Grimpak
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Posted - 2006.04.13 07:24:00 -
[43]
I would upgrade the game to be fully DX 9.0c and then release a DX 10 update when Vista hits the public.
...but I agree with Maya here.
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Originally by: Abdalion
Shoot him ingame if you don't like this person. If you do like him, go mine veldspar with him.
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Yojiritsu
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Posted - 2006.04.13 07:38:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Alekzander
DX10 is still incomplete, there is no current card out there currently that has any DX10 features because DX10 isn't around to build a card for. I am happy with my two 6800 GT's and I thought it smart to skip the whole 7X00 series and wait for the DX 10 cards (that and I need a sli-32 board). This way, I have DX 10 cards with OMGDROOL graphics without wasting money on cards that can't support this stuff, vista does not require dx10 to run from the rumors I've heard.
AGP cards end with the 7x00 series from what I heard, the PCIe bus is so much more capable that it's pointless to make an AGP card with 1/2 the power on being the same referance design as the PCIe card. That and SLI/Crossfire rigs are becoming more mainstream in the gaming industry. Sixty-four bit, dual core and other cpus are also becoming more prevalant with quad core cpu's not that far away on the horision.
Look for DX10 cards to start showing up in q3 or q4 2006.
Hogwash, the only thing that PCIe does better is a higher bandwith, even agp 8x isnt used fully. And using bus in the first place is bad since anything coming from the system RAM needs to come from your HD first => stutters.
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Tachy
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Posted - 2006.04.13 07:39:00 -
[45]
Has there been any word on when the sound engine will be upgraded from the early beta to the retail version?
I don't count the jukebox not digestin unrenamed .mp3 as upgraded version.
--*=*=*--
Megadon
CCP wanted a well known artist and celebrity to test the new font so it's approval would be well known. They got Ray |
DigitalCommunist
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Posted - 2006.04.13 07:43:00 -
[46]
You have an inferiority complex if the prospect of not having shiny graphics makes you a "2nd class citizen". Be happy such prettyness has no positive impact on gameplay, whereas before the client was totally laggy for anyone who didn't have a pimp graphics card - actually making you a 2nd class citizen in pvp.
You're a dirty bag of hypocricy Maya.
Purchasing Complex Fullerene Shards, contact me ingame.
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Copine Callmeknau
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Posted - 2006.04.13 07:47:00 -
[47]
What are you saying here? That nobody should be allowed to have vastly improved graphics simply because you don't want to upgrade to vista?
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With five million sheep in this army
I seem to be the only one fit to command
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Karol Kei
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Posted - 2006.04.13 07:56:00 -
[48]
Vastly improved graphics do not require DX10. Vastly improved graphics do not require any change in API. While there is a change in API choosing the one that requires Vista is a completely different decision to the one dealing with whether or not we should have improved graphics.
Again, I urge you all to read up on Vista. It is a big step in computers and 99% to the wrong direction. CCP requiring us to run Vista to (eventually) run Eve is a bad decision for us and thus ultimately a bad decision for them. Only reason I see them making such a horrendous decision is if they have struck a deal with MS to promote Vista - which they may have done. TQ runs MS.
For us customers requiring Vista is major league bad news. And no - I am not whining because I don't want to upgrade my hardware to see the benefits of the new graphics engine. I am whining because I will not install Vista in any of my computers and if it means Eve has to go then Eve will go.
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Jenny Spitfire
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Posted - 2006.04.13 08:02:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Karol Kei
For us customers requiring Vista is major league bad news. And no - I am not whining because I don't want to upgrade my hardware to see the benefits of the new graphics engine. I am whining because I will not install Vista in any of my computers and if it means Eve has to go then Eve will go.
Me too 
I think WinXP is almost perfect. Vista is trying to be a MacOS
I so hate frills, but that is just me.
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RecruitMe@NOINT! |
Max Teranous
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Posted - 2006.04.13 08:15:00 -
[50]
I don't see the problem. CCP's options:
1) Don't go Vista, DX10 & stick to DX9c
2) Only go Vista, DX10
3) Do both
In 1), They have to upgrade again in say 2/3 years time when Vista penetration of the market as occured, and anyone with vista can't play eve. In 2), every subscriber would have to upgrade, and that just won't happen.
Seems to me that option 3) is sensible both from a business standpoint and so that end users can pick whether to upgrade or not, and when.
Max 
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Karol Kei
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Posted - 2006.04.13 08:18:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
I so hate frills, but that is just me.
It's not even that. You will likely be able to turn off most of the candy. It's all the so called "security" features in Vista that are the real kick in the nuts. Vista will also require your hardware to match those features for full operation. Combination of that and all the things that are needed for patching up DRM is scary. Many parts of your computer will be doing things you will have no control over and in fact no idea about. With the track record of MS I will not trust them with my computers.
Please do read up on Vista, there is tons of (good too as well as even more bad) articles about the piece of crap.
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Karol Kei
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Posted - 2006.04.13 08:22:00 -
[52]
Edited by: Karol Kei on 13/04/2006 08:22:36
Originally by: Max Teranous
Seems to me that option 3) is sensible both from a business standpoint and so that end users can pick whether to upgrade or not, and when.
Ultima Online supported multiple clients for a long time. I don't know if they still do. It is a lot of extra work for nothing.
The point is - DX10 is not needed for anything for Eve. It is not a magical thing that will make apocs have matching textures and moons to be made of cheese. There is just no reason to go for DX10 at all.
And if they do decide to change to another API they would have the option to go with an open API which would enable them to easily compile for another OS'es such as Mac OS and Linux.
But I'd rather they just stick to DX9 and upgraded the graphics. Change of API is not at all needed for that. When there is real benefit to justify the extra work to change API then do it. And even then much later DX10 would probably not be the wise choice.
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Jenny Spitfire
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Posted - 2006.04.13 08:33:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Karol Kei
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
I so hate frills, but that is just me.
It's not even that. You will likely be able to turn off most of the candy. It's all the so called "security" features in Vista that are the real kick in the nuts. Vista will also require your hardware to match those features for full operation. Combination of that and all the things that are needed for patching up DRM is scary. Many parts of your computer will be doing things you will have no control over and in fact no idea about. With the track record of MS I will not trust them with my computers.
Please do read up on Vista, there is tons of (good too as well as even more bad) articles about the piece of crap.
Security? Yea right. More like upgrading prevention, nightmare.
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RecruitMe@NOINT! |
Uther Doull
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Posted - 2006.04.13 08:54:00 -
[54]
Edited by: Uther Doull on 13/04/2006 08:58:45
i can't see what every1 is *****ing about... so you have to have the newest hardware to get the most out of the 'new' EvE
How the hell is that different from any of the other 'uber graphics' games?
it's like whining you can't play oblivion on 2048x1536 on highest settings with zomg99x fullscene AA on your gf4....
a graphics card is outdated the moment you walk out of the store with it... it's been like that forever and it's not gonna change
atleast the devs are making sure you can still run eve like you used to with the best upgrades and optimalizations possible, it's not like they are saying 'buy a $3000 pc and get Vista or no EvE for you!'
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Logi3
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Posted - 2006.04.13 09:18:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Uther Doull
Edited by: Uther Doull on 13/04/2006 08:58:45
i can't see what every1 is *****ing about... so you have to have the newest hardware to get the most out of the 'new' EvE
How the hell is that different from any of the other 'uber graphics' games?
it's like whining you can't play oblivion on 2048x1536 on highest settings with zomg99x fullscene AA on your gf4....
a graphics card is outdated the moment you walk out of the store with it... it's been like that forever and it's not gonna change
atleast the devs are making sure you can still run eve like you used to with the best upgrades and optimalizations possible, it's not like they are saying 'buy a $3000 pc and get Vista or no EvE for you!'
Pretty much sums up the point i was going to make. You can all still play regardless. Luckly i can afford to build a super PC when the time comes so personally i cant wait to play Eve revamped :)
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Hurada
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Posted - 2006.04.13 09:29:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Hurada on 13/04/2006 09:35:18
Originally by: Xikoro Imar
If CCP really makes the graphical upgrades Vista dependant I am unsubscribing for sure. Use OpenGL, not the monopoly-enforcer that is DX10.
Agreed somewhat, but I wont be leaving :). And I doubt CCP are going to code a OGL renderer.
Originally by: http://www.gamedev.net/columns/events/gdc2006/article.asp?id=233
Last SIGGRAPH, alarms were raised when it was learned that OpenGL support on Windows Vista would come with some limitations that were considered unacceptable by many. Developers and hardware vendors were asked to contact Microsoft and ask them to provide a path for IHVs to support OpenGL as a first-class citizen on Vista. As of the February Vista beta, this has now been done.
TF for that. MS tried very hard to murder OpenGL with its DX10/Vista. Hopefully, they have failed.
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sonho
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Posted - 2006.04.13 09:31:00 -
[57]
I Have to agree with maya WTF is this we need directx 10 to run pretty eve?Ever seen Morrowind oblivion,Half life,far cry ... etc?
If they are just upgrading the grafic engine wouldnŠt be more easy to upgrade first to take FULL advange of the 9.0c ?
Why we are at it make it Open Gl ,i mean i will upgrade eventually so why not ?The microshoft guys will jump on me but hey who cares.Linux users whould get pretty fracked up i guees ,and dont say to me that they dont play eve just look at the cedega forums..
I just dont get this, why this grafic update has to be made like this could anyone take the time to explain to me?
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Pesadel0
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Posted - 2006.04.13 09:38:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Uther Doull
Edited by: Uther Doull on 13/04/2006 08:58:45
i can't see what every1 is *****ing about... so you have to have the newest hardware to get the most out of the 'new' EvE
How the hell is that different from any of the other 'uber graphics' games?
it's like whining you can't play oblivion on 2048x1536 on highest settings with zomg99x fullscene AA on your gf4....
a graphics card is outdated the moment you walk out of the store with it... it's been like that forever and it's not gonna change
atleast the devs are making sure you can still run eve like you used to with the best upgrades and optimalizations possible, it's not like they are saying 'buy a $3000 pc and get Vista or no EvE for you!'
Maybe people are fukred up because :
A) it isnt really needed?And the 9.0c has plenty to offer nevertheless ?
B)Maybe some people got their games working on linux box and that will end ,making them buy a OS they dont like..
C)Because MicrS*** Makes you and me folow their standarts and doenst give you any room for a choise?
I could go on an on...
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Karol Kei
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Posted - 2006.04.13 09:40:00 -
[59]
Edited by: Karol Kei on 13/04/2006 09:41:39
Uther and Logi, try to read the thread again. It is not about hardware. It is about making Vista mandatory. Vista is an OS that has a lot of really really suspect "security" features.
It is not about latest hardware. It is about making Vista mandatory in some time frame.
Please, please people. Read up on the security and DRM features in Vista. Please. It is an evil OS that will make all the *****ing about MS Mediaplayer calling back with your personal data look like a mild breeze in the wind. You are supporting making this mandatory for all players of Eve. Just take a moment and study up. Please?
And "you can still play" is rubbish, because at some point it will be completely irrational to keep two different lines of codes supported.
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K1K1R1K1
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Posted - 2006.04.13 10:17:00 -
[60]
Edited by: K1K1R1K1 on 13/04/2006 10:20:07
Will it really be that hard to upgrade and engine from 9.0c to 10? If not, then CCP should've made a *****in 9.0c engine, and later change to 10. Regardless, CCP has hopefully prepared for the "HELL NO, I'M NOT UPGRADEING TO VISTA" folks with a latter patch for the 9.0c users (so that CCP doesn't have to bother with 2 completley seperate engines), or to continue to run EvE under the current graphics engine untill the game dies.
People don't like to be forced to do anything...
____________________________________________
Don't worry aboutit |
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