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Macabre Combine
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
14
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Posted - 2014.02.21 14:56:00 -
[31] - Quote
Laiannah Sahireen wrote:I know this is an idea that CCP are aware of and that has been posted about on numerous occasions, so I'm not going to try and phrase it as a 'feature suggestion' or anything. I'm just wondering if anybody knows what the latest update is on this in terms of whether they are working on it, whether they have tabled it for the time being or what.
If anybody from CCP has the time to answer I'd really like to know which of the following categories this falls into:
1) There's some kind of technical hurdle making this difficult to implement 2) There's no technical hurdle but it's still a large piece of work and you don't have time 3) You don't want to do this because you are all incredibly evil people who hate logistics pilots and secretly plot to thwart us at every turn.
Anybody in the know care to enlighten me?
Logi pilots don't need to ***** kill mails, kill mails don't make you good. |
Caviar Liberta
Moira. Villore Accords
448
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Posted - 2014.02.21 15:06:00 -
[32] - Quote
Seven Koskanaiken wrote:Bring a warrior II, or civilian gatling in the spare high slot.
Bait logi works also. Fit logi with 1 remote rep and the rest with the appropriate weapon type and you are on the kill mail. |
JC Anderson
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
1047
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Posted - 2014.02.21 15:16:00 -
[33] - Quote
Aralyn Cormallen wrote:I don't get an easy way this can be done, at present, people appear on a killmail if they have performed an effect on the dead ship, this is something a Logi isn't doing, it is performing an action on a completely different ship. If youGÇÖre argueing that your effect on a ship involved in the killing should be inherited by the ship it killed, this creates a whole spaghetti mess of someone getting on killmail because they shot someone, who ecmGÇÖed someone else, who shot someone, who died. And where do you stop? Maybe I should get on extra killmails for sensor dampening you, which means you repped less damage ships; but that would mean I would get on the killmails of my own side, since my effects are being inherited through you, whose repping ships that are shooting my sideGǪ but shouldnGÇÖt I be getting on the killmaills of the guys you didnGÇÖt rep, since that means I contributed to them dying? Any system that doesnGÇÖt involve yards of coding that will present a potential future trip-hazard for later game changes will ultimately result in everyone on grid getting on every killmail, which kinda negates half the point of killmails in the first place.
I agree that Logi pilots deserve accolades and recognition from their organisations, and good organisations should be finding ways to recognise the contributions of their Logi pilots, scouts, cynos, boosters, and all the non-line DPS pilots. But killmails just doesnGÇÖt work as an easy way to do this.
I think one of the ideas was to count the total rep the Logi applied to others on that KM as damage. |
WASPY69
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
166
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Posted - 2014.02.21 15:28:00 -
[34] - Quote
Rhatar Khurin wrote:Personally i don't see why anyone would remotely care if their logistic ship didn't get on the KM. So much this. I mean we're all killmail whores and there's no denying it. Especially if you're up against something shiny and you wanna unscrew your horrible efficiency on the killboards. What I always do though is get a flight of DPS drones, launch, and assign to the tankiest ship in the fleet like a brick Damnation or something similar, and let my drones ***** away. But in the heat of the battle my priority is still the fleet broadcast window though, and whoring comes second. |
Shadowschild
House Aratus Fatal Ascension
64
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Posted - 2014.02.21 15:31:00 -
[35] - Quote
As a logistics pilot your drone bay should always have T2 logi drones. Which should always be on the logi anchor or the FC. If your dropping any other type of drones it looks bad & other fleet members will take notice. Don't be that guy.
If your fitting your ship with anything unrelated to your role, you should not get any reimbursement. Be content with a pap link & do your best to keep your buddies alive. |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
341
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Posted - 2014.02.21 15:37:00 -
[36] - Quote
Shadowschild wrote:As a logistics pilot, you get pap link & usually more then 100% reimbursement.
Ship replacement is not a universal condition of being a logistics pilot (we put all of our loot and ISK towards other things and no-one has their ships replaced, whether ewar, dps or logi).
I personally love flying logi and have no problem with not whoring on killmails as I get enough at other times when not in fleet, but that doesn't mean I'm not intrigued on whether any progression has been made on a project that CCP indicated they were going to work on. eve-bazaar - I'm not associated with them, but support it as a worthwhile service |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
9075
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Posted - 2014.02.21 15:37:00 -
[37] - Quote
What's a pap link "Pretty much all 14 of the CSM were in favor of a drone assign nerf for OBVIOUS gameplay reasons" - Sala Cameron
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Chimay
Release The Kraken Architecture
11
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Posted - 2014.02.21 15:40:00 -
[38] - Quote
They won't add it for the simple fact that the existing Killboards would illustrate all the people running around with Logi alts to save their ass and people would now be able to identify they have a logi alt carrying them in PVP. Thus they would find far less encounters. Those encounters would be less value because it's now shown on the KB it wasn't a solo kill.
I don't have the skills trained to even fly a logi, but the value in the roll is great and should be recognized. The value is so good however a great deal have logi alts and it's a conflict to interest to them. The powers to be that currently have them will fight tooth and nail to protect it.
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Shadowschild
House Aratus Fatal Ascension
64
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Posted - 2014.02.21 15:42:00 -
[39] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Shadowschild wrote:As a logistics pilot, you get pap link & usually more then 100% reimbursement. Ship replacement is not a universal condition of being a logistics pilot (we put all of our loot and ISK towards other things and no-one has their ships replaced, whether ewar, dps or logi). I personally love flying logi and have no problem with not whoring on killmails as I get enough at other times when not in fleet, but that doesn't mean I'm not intrigued on whether any progression has been made on a project that CCP indicated they were going to work on.
Your taking that statement out of context & twisting it to fit an argument that doesn't exist. The bottom line is logistics pilots should not be focusing on killmails. CCP would be really wasting their time on this, when there are bigger fish to fry. |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
341
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Posted - 2014.02.21 15:44:00 -
[40] - Quote
Chimay wrote: The value is so good however a great deal have logi alts and it's a conflict to interest to them. The powers to be that currently have them will fight tooth and nail to protect it.
The value is great if you're a good one.
I'd personally like to see a different kind of 'logimail' (really just a killmail but focusing only on logi results). If you rep someone (would have to actually add shield, armour, cap, hull and not be 0 like you can with damage) then that counts as a save and if the ship goes down, it counts as a loss.
You could have separate logistics boards then that track good logistics pilots.
But this is all just wild dream stuff. We don't really need it, just a nice thing to have if it was ever possible.
eve-bazaar - I'm not associated with them, but support it as a worthwhile service |
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Chimay
Release The Kraken Architecture
11
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Posted - 2014.02.21 15:51:00 -
[41] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Chimay wrote: The value is so good however a great deal have logi alts and it's a conflict to interest to them. The powers to be that currently have them will fight tooth and nail to protect it. The value is great if you're a good one. I'd personally like to see a different kind of 'logimail' (really just a killmail but focusing only on logi results). If you rep someone (would have to actually add shield, armour, cap, hull and not be 0 like you can with damage) then that counts as a save and if the ship goes down, it counts as a loss. You could have separate logistics boards then that track good logistics pilots. But this is all just wild dream stuff. We don't really need it, just a nice thing to have if it was ever possible.
That would be awesome. Showing how much they repaired, Cap transfer, etc. Love it. |
Thead Enco
Killing is Business Get Off My Lawn
94
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Posted - 2014.02.21 16:21:00 -
[42] - Quote
Laiannah Sahireen wrote:Garnoo wrote:this will never happen... deal with it
or we will get soon requests about getting on kn for beign close to dying target requests I believe it will happen, as I've heard CCP talking about it as something they intend to do in the future. I just don't know any specifics, which is why I was asking.
They also said the same thing about "atmosphereic flight" CCP says a lot of things that get tossed around but only to end up in the "Soon(TM)" bin.
TLDR; Stop your whine HTFU fit a civ gun or dual box with logi/DPS dealers,
"Any man who must say 'I am the king' is no true king."
Tywin Lannister-á |
Frostys Virpio
IRS Fraud
1011
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Posted - 2014.02.21 17:36:00 -
[43] - Quote
Thead Enco wrote:Laiannah Sahireen wrote:Garnoo wrote:this will never happen... deal with it
or we will get soon requests about getting on kn for beign close to dying target requests I believe it will happen, as I've heard CCP talking about it as something they intend to do in the future. I just don't know any specifics, which is why I was asking. They also said the same thing about "atmosphereic flight" CCP says a lot of things that get tossed around but only to end up in the "Soon(TM)" bin. TLDR; Stop your whine HTFU fit a civ gun or dual box with logi/DPS dealers,
Or just stop caring about useless KM... |
Kitty Bear
Disturbed Friends Of Diazepam Disturbed Acquaintance
1214
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Posted - 2014.02.21 18:14:00 -
[44] - Quote
It's not a hard concept
to get on the KM you need to do some damage or use hostile e-war
sorry, but remote repairers fulfil neither of those roles
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Sointu Luonnotar
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
126
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Posted - 2014.02.21 18:19:00 -
[45] - Quote
Laiannah Sahireen wrote: 1) There's some kind of technical hurdle making this difficult to implement 2) There's no technical hurdle but it's still a large piece of work and you don't have time 3) You don't want to do this because you are all incredibly evil people who hate logistics pilots and secretly plot to thwart us at every turn.
Anybody in the know care to enlighten me?
I'm technically not in the know, but I could make a few educated guesses.
There probably isn't a technical hurdle to overcome - altough I could see in large fleet fights this making parsing killmails even more taxing, but that's about the only true technical hurlde I can think of.
What is probably the issue is to how to handle the flagging of killmail participation, which, I would think isn't technically that difficult (not having firsthand experience with EVE source code I cannot say either way for sure). So, how I envision it is that any ships that receives logistics gets flagged with an "assisted" flag, so any kills these pilots make show the logistics pilot as an assisting pilot. Maybe this would become a whole new column in the killmail system, I don't really know. This assistance flag would remain as long as the pilots remains in the same grid as the logistics pilot.
Now here's obviously one problem - should the logistics pilot get killmails from a pilot they are not actively assisting anymore? Primaries change often, and again talking about big fleet fights people might remain on the same grid for hours. This could make logistics pilots killmail kingpins, and as evidently so, so, so many pilots love to ***** for killmails, in an extreme case the field could be full of logistiscs and little DPS. So I would think, the largest hurdle to overcome is to invent a way to make the system fair for everyone involved and not to break the balance of shiptypes on an average battlefield.
Edit: Reading some of the posts in this thread I would suggest logi pilots going on strike, seeing how lowly people tend to value our contributions. |
Yarda Black
Epidemic.
48
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Posted - 2014.02.21 18:20:00 -
[46] - Quote
Shadowschild wrote:If one day you apply for a corp, they may randomly check your killboard & you don't want to show up in a logi ship doing zero damage, they will think your a self serving douche.
That's not my experience at all. But we've already established we don't speak to the same people. |
Laiannah Sahireen
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
31
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Posted - 2014.02.21 19:55:00 -
[47] - Quote
OK let's see...
- For all the people saying "why do you care about KMs so much"? - Think of it this way. How about if CCP had coded it so that only the killing blow shows on a KM? Or only the top damage? Or only those two but nobody else? You would be crying your little eyes out and ranting on the forums about how you totally jammed out that guy in your falcon who was already being murdered by 20 other people. This is a game about spaceships fighting other spaceships. If you're on that grid, risking your ship, then it's reasonable to have an acknowledgement in the battle report that you were actually present. Simple as that. You CANNOT seriously argue that somebody who puts their ship on the line and risks losing it to help their fleet deserves no recognition. Not only do you not deserve the help of people who have trained months to be effective logi pilots, but you're just a flat-out selfish douche.
- For all the people saying "Nooo this would ruin neutral alts" - Oh noes, your super sekrit logi alt that mysteriously appears on grid to rep you when you are "soloing" will now be obvious. This is not a good reason why genuine logi pilots shouldn't get recognition. I honestly couldn't care less that your attempts to look like you're some l33t solo pvper are shown up for what they really are.
- Quote: TLDR; Stop your whine HTFU fit a civ gun or dual box with logi/DPS dealers - This is super adorable. You're just desperate to find somebody to say 'HTFU' to, huh? What I actually said was "Hey, there's a planned feature, does anybody know the timescale?". Yeah that's some serious whining right there. 0/10 wouldn't be trolled by again.
The bottom line is this: CCP have already acknowledged this is a sensible thing to do and have said they plan to do it. It's just a case of wondering if there is an approximate timescale laid out for it. |
Tesco Ergo Sum
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
24
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Posted - 2014.02.21 20:01:00 -
[48] - Quote
Laiannah Sahireen wrote: [snipped]
The bottom line is this: CCP have already acknowledged this is a sensible thing to do and have said they plan to do it. It's just a case of wondering if there is an approximate timescale laid out for it.
Dear CCP
Please allow others to gauge whether I should be primaried first...
Like I don't have enough problems already!
No thanks, I prefer to fly below the radar.
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Orlacc
614
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Posted - 2014.02.21 20:13:00 -
[49] - Quote
My Armor Repairer wants to be on Killmails. "Measure Twice, Cut Once." |
Mike Azariah
DemSal Corporation DemSal Unlimited
852
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Posted - 2014.02.21 20:36:00 -
[50] - Quote
From the Winter summit minutes
Quote:#10 on the list is to put Logistics pilots onto killmails. Mike Azariah pointed out that Logistics pilots get part of the bounty, so itGÇÖs clearly tracked. Soundwave wondered aloud if itGÇÖs the right solution. GÇ£Logistics pilots want recognition, but is the killmail the right place? Is shoehorning the information into the right place?GÇ¥ Ripard Teg brought up an idea from elsewhere GÇôGÇ£ if youGÇÖre present for a kill, you get kill credit, but likewise if you are repping someone who dies, you get points against you.GÇ¥ Mynnna agreed that whatever solution is settled on here, acknowledging failure should happen as well. Korvin argued that logistics are GÇ£just another thingGÇ¥ involved in a kill, like ammo, modules, etc. and they should be recorded. Ripard Teg pointed out weGÇÖre all gamers and are driven by achievement, and that it also is an intelligence source. GÇ£It sizes up the sides in a fight.GÇ¥ Veritas pointed out that battle reports like that, such as dog .net, do not actually exist in EVE, but if they did, that may be a more appropriate way to display logistics participation. Soundwave concluded that he thinks they should solve it, and heGÇÖs just not sure if killmails are the right place for it
If the logi wasn't a part of the kill why does he get a share of the bounty
If the logi isn't doing damage what does he get aggro/timers when he reps the offensive ships
Either you are a part of the fight or you are not and logis ARE
m Mike Azariah-á CSM8 |
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Anne Dieu-le-veut
Natl Assn for the Advancement of Criminal People
66
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Posted - 2014.02.21 20:51:00 -
[51] - Quote
Maybe the code can't differentiate between self reps, passive reps, and RR? They could always just make it that each member of a fleet gets in on a KM. When I ran as a healing class in DAoC, I'd get realm points for group kills as long as I healed someone that actually did some DPS on the kill. |
KIller Wabbit
The Scope Gallente Federation
536
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Posted - 2014.02.22 05:45:00 -
[52] - Quote
Easy answer - it's something that the majority of players want, CCP trolls hard, there you have it.
CCP Punkturis-á "I want to get in on the goodposter circle jerk!"
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Laiannah Sahireen
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
32
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Posted - 2014.02.22 05:49:00 -
[53] - Quote
Anne Dieu-le-veut wrote:Maybe the code can't differentiate between self reps, passive reps, and RR?
If this was true, then ships with an active tanking bonus would get massively increased reps from logi. I'm pretty sure the code can tell.
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James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
9077
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Posted - 2014.02.22 07:33:00 -
[54] - Quote
KIller Wabbit wrote:Easy answer - it's something that the majority of players want I seriously doubt that. "Pretty much all 14 of the CSM were in favor of a drone assign nerf for OBVIOUS gameplay reasons" - Sala Cameron
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James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
9077
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Posted - 2014.02.22 07:34:00 -
[55] - Quote
Logi should not get on killmails because there's no good, consistent way of making it make sense. "Pretty much all 14 of the CSM were in favor of a drone assign nerf for OBVIOUS gameplay reasons" - Sala Cameron
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Dave Stark
4363
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Posted - 2014.02.22 07:35:00 -
[56] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:KIller Wabbit wrote:Easy answer - it's something that the majority of players want I seriously doubt that.
more than those who don't want it, at the very least. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
9077
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Posted - 2014.02.22 07:38:00 -
[57] - Quote
If you want to be on killmails, stop flying logi. If you want the best of both worlds, carry Warrior IIs and assist them to someone. "Pretty much all 14 of the CSM were in favor of a drone assign nerf for OBVIOUS gameplay reasons" - Sala Cameron
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Dave Stark
4363
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Posted - 2014.02.22 07:40:00 -
[58] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:If you want to be on killmails, stop flying logi. If you want the best of both worlds, carry Warrior IIs and assist them to someone.
alternatively, kill mails could just show all the participants in a fight?
not to mention, neither of those 'solutions' work in the conditions that i fly logi in. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
9077
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Posted - 2014.02.22 07:47:00 -
[59] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:If you want to be on killmails, stop flying logi. If you want the best of both worlds, carry Warrior IIs and assist them to someone. alternatively, kill mails could just show all the participants in a fight? Define participants. "Pretty much all 14 of the CSM were in favor of a drone assign nerf for OBVIOUS gameplay reasons" - Sala Cameron
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Dave Stark
4363
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Posted - 2014.02.22 07:50:00 -
[60] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Dave Stark wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:If you want to be on killmails, stop flying logi. If you want the best of both worlds, carry Warrior IIs and assist them to someone. alternatively, kill mails could just show all the participants in a fight? Define participants.
Here. |
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