Pages: 1 2 3 4 :: [one page] |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |

Laiannah Sahireen
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
19
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 10:01:00 -
[1] - Quote
I know this is an idea that CCP are aware of and that has been posted about on numerous occasions, so I'm not going to try and phrase it as a 'feature suggestion' or anything. I'm just wondering if anybody knows what the latest update is on this in terms of whether they are working on it, whether they have tabled it for the time being or what.
If anybody from CCP has the time to answer I'd really like to know which of the following categories this falls into:
1) There's some kind of technical hurdle making this difficult to implement 2) There's no technical hurdle but it's still a large piece of work and you don't have time 3) You don't want to do this because you are all incredibly evil people who hate logistics pilots and secretly plot to thwart us at every turn.
Anybody in the know care to enlighten me? |

Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
338
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 10:07:00 -
[2] - Quote
Another regular logi pilot would also like to know. eve-bazaar - I'm not associated with them, but support it as a worthwhile service |

Seven Koskanaiken
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
871
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 10:07:00 -
[3] - Quote
Bring a warrior II, or civilian gatling in the high slot. |

Garnoo
Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation
106
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 10:08:00 -
[4] - Quote
this will never happen... deal with it
or we will get soon requests about getting on kn for beign close to dying target requests People are going to try to ruin your day. Get together with others, ruin their day back - this is EvE |

Laiannah Sahireen
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
21
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 10:10:00 -
[5] - Quote
Seven Koskanaiken wrote:Bring a warrior II.
Thanks for being obnoxius and unhelpful.
This is what I currently do, but sometimes I don't have time to screw around with KM whoring due to the more pressing issue of trying to keep my fleet members alive.
In addition, it would be nice to be able to field a full flight of medium logi drones to add to my effectiveness.
You'll notice the title of this thread was not 'How do I get on killmails as logi?'.
But seriously though, your reply was super helpful. |

Laiannah Sahireen
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
21
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 10:12:00 -
[6] - Quote
Garnoo wrote:this will never happen... deal with it
or we will get soon requests about getting on kn for beign close to dying target requests
I believe it will happen, as I've heard CCP talking about it as something they intend to do in the future. I just don't know any specifics, which is why I was asking. |

Seven Koskanaiken
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
871
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 10:23:00 -
[7] - Quote
Laiannah Sahireen wrote:Seven Koskanaiken wrote:Bring a warrior II. Thanks for being obnoxius and unhelpful. This is what I currently do, but sometimes I don't have time to screw around with KM whoring due to the more pressing issue of trying to keep my fleet members alive. In addition, it would be nice to be able to field a full flight of medium logi drones to add to my effectiveness. You'll notice the title of this thread was not 'How do I get on killmails as logi?'. But seriously though, your reply was super helpful.
Perhaps if you wanted to know potential future design ideas you should ask CCP by petition, or perhaps even phone their offices, rather than asking on a public forum. |

Desert Ice78
Cobra Kai Dojo WHY so Seri0Us
349
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 10:31:00 -
[8] - Quote
Laiannah Sahireen wrote: This is what I currently do, but sometimes I don't have time to screw around with KM whoring due to the more pressing issue of trying to keep my fleet members alive.
Which begs the question - why are you so bothered with KM whoring when your only concern should be keeping your fleetmates alive?
I am a pod pilot: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/DesertIce/POD.jpg
CCP Zulu: Came expecting a discussion about computer monitors, left confused. |

Laiannah Sahireen
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
24
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 10:36:00 -
[9] - Quote
Desert Ice78 wrote:Laiannah Sahireen wrote: This is what I currently do, but sometimes I don't have time to screw around with KM whoring due to the more pressing issue of trying to keep my fleet members alive.
Which begs the question - why are you so bothered with KM whoring when your only concern should be keeping your fleetmates alive?
Because it's hardly fair that everybody else on grid who contributes to the kill gets on the KM and the logi doesn't unless he deliberately whores on mails and thus devotes less attention to keeping the fleet alive.
Are you seriously asking this? Why shouldn't logi be on killmails? |

Frank Millar
446
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 10:41:00 -
[10] - Quote
Laiannah Sahireen wrote:Are you seriously asking this? Why shouldn't logi be on killmails? Are you seriously asking this? Why should logi be on killmails?  |
|

Laiannah Sahireen
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
24
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 10:43:00 -
[11] - Quote
Frank Millar wrote:Laiannah Sahireen wrote:Are you seriously asking this? Why shouldn't logi be on killmails? Are you seriously asking this? Why should logi be on killmails? 
Because they contributed to the kill by keeping the damage-dealing ships alive long enough to secure it. Next question. |

Yarda Black
Epidemic.
47
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 10:45:00 -
[12] - Quote
I'm gonna give another anoying answer. Sorry about that in advance :)
I used to be a logi pilot. I brought warriors and assigned 2 of them to the FC or some one I knew was pro at getting on KM's.
My main job out there was keeping people alive and making sure they got onto killmails. If that meant I would not have the time to deploy drones, then no KM for me that day. It happens.
So here's my anoying answer;
IF killmails are important to you and you feel you need to be on them, you are not in the right ship. You need to be in a ship that makes a hostile act against a target. Right now you're in a ship that has a beneficial effect on a teammate.
You're either logi or not |

Jezza McWaffle
Blackstar Privateers Disavowed.
84
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 10:49:00 -
[13] - Quote
Lol any Logi pilot who tries to ***** on kill mails is not a good logi pilot C6 Wormhole blog http://holelotofwaffle.wordpress.com/ |

Laiannah Sahireen
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
24
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 10:50:00 -
[14] - Quote
Yarda Black wrote:You're either logi or not
This is nonsense. It's a PVP game and logistics is a vital role in PVP, there's no reason for logi pilots to miss out on KMs.
Besides, you're completely missing the point. CCP have already said they plan to do this. My question was whether anybody knows what the latest news is on when we might expect it. |

Yarda Black
Epidemic.
47
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 10:52:00 -
[15] - Quote
Jezza McWaffle wrote:Lol any Logi pilot who tries to ***** on kill mails is not a good logi pilot
Dont fully agree with that to be honest. I do think a logi pilot who's first prioty is killmails doesn't have the proper focus. Whether or not that makes them bad depends on the fight and how this priority affects their logistics.
|

Laiannah Sahireen
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
24
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 10:52:00 -
[16] - Quote
Jezza McWaffle wrote:Lol any Logi pilot who tries to ***** on kill mails is not a good logi pilot
Which is why I miss out on a lot of KMs. I like logi and i'm very good at it.
There are entire battle reports that have no record I was ever on grid, which is total bull considering the amount of effort logi pilots put in. |

Laiannah Sahireen
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
24
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 10:54:00 -
[17] - Quote
Yarda Black wrote:Jezza McWaffle wrote:Lol any Logi pilot who tries to ***** on kill mails is not a good logi pilot Dont fully agree with that to be honest.
Yarda Black wrote: IF killmails are important to you and you feel you need to be on them, you are not in the right ship.
You're either logi or not
Make your mind up plzkthx. |

Yarda Black
Epidemic.
47
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 10:55:00 -
[18] - Quote
Laiannah Sahireen wrote:Yarda Black wrote:You're either logi or not This is nonsense. It's a PVP game and logistics is a vital role in PVP, there's no reason for logi pilots to miss out on KMs.
You're right. As someone who lights a cyno for fleets, I should be on all killmails. Without me, no fight. I should be on all the blue kills as well. Without me the reds would not have a single target to shoot at.
I do agree with logi being vital for fleets tho. I dont agree with the need to be on killmails.
|

Yarda Black
Epidemic.
47
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 10:57:00 -
[19] - Quote
Laiannah Sahireen wrote:Yarda Black wrote:Jezza McWaffle wrote:Lol any Logi pilot who tries to ***** on kill mails is not a good logi pilot Dont fully agree with that to be honest. Yarda Black wrote: IF killmails are important to you and you feel you need to be on them, you are not in the right ship.
You're either logi or not
Make your mind up plzkthx.
Those two seem contradicting because they were ripped out of their original context. But even in their current "abused" shape; they're not.
|

Laiannah Sahireen
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
24
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 10:58:00 -
[20] - Quote
Yarda Black wrote:Laiannah Sahireen wrote:Yarda Black wrote:You're either logi or not This is nonsense. It's a PVP game and logistics is a vital role in PVP, there's no reason for logi pilots to miss out on KMs. You're right. As someone who lights a cyno for fleets, I should be on all killmails. Without me, no fight. I should be on all the blue kills as well. Without me the reds would not have a single target to shoot at. I do agree with logi being vital for fleets tho. I dont agree with the need to be on killmails.
I know you're trying to use this as a counterexample as to why my reasoning is flawed, but if there was a sensible way to do it, I agree cyno pilots should get recognition in a battle report. I'm sure we can agree, however that this would be a hell of a lot harder to track than logistics, who are right there on grid activating targeted modules on other ships.
Besides, in my experience it's very rare for anybody to be a dedicated cyno pilot - it's almost always an alt or a main who tackles and then cynos. |
|

Lord LazyGhost
The Bastards The Bastards.
303
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 11:01:00 -
[21] - Quote
Laiannah Sahireen wrote:Garnoo wrote:this will never happen... deal with it
or we will get soon requests about getting on kn for beign close to dying target requests I believe it will happen, as I've heard CCP talking about it as something they intend to do in the future. I just don't know any specifics, which is why I was asking.
along with POS and sov fixes and a hole load of other crap we been waiting for years for. stoped holding my breath long time ago |

Esha Ditrix
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
69
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 11:02:00 -
[22] - Quote
dont ruin my "neutral" logi please :) Its not an exploit, if the game lets you do it... |

Laiannah Sahireen
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
24
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 11:05:00 -
[23] - Quote
Lord LazyGhost wrote:Laiannah Sahireen wrote:Garnoo wrote:this will never happen... deal with it
or we will get soon requests about getting on kn for beign close to dying target requests I believe it will happen, as I've heard CCP talking about it as something they intend to do in the future. I just don't know any specifics, which is why I was asking. along with POS and sov fixes and a hole load of other crap we been waiting for years for. stoped holding my breath long time ago
This is my fear as well, however it just doesn't seem as big of a change as overhauling the whole of the sov mechanics would be. My reasoning is as follows:
1) You already have the ability to recognise that logistics is repping somebody with a flag (e.g. suspect) and transfer that flag to logi. 2) You have the ability to add ships to killmails who have not contributed damage directly. 3) You have the ability to recognise when a ship is on grid with another ship (because you show it on the overview) Therefore, in theory you have the building blocks, code-wise to implement adding logistics to KMs.
This is why I'm curious to see if there is a technical hitch that makes this harder than it seems or if it just isn't a high enough priority at the moment. |

Valleria Darkmoon
Heretic Army Heretic Initiative
198
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 11:20:00 -
[24] - Quote
If you are a good logi pilot your fleet/alliance/corp mates will know it and will want you around all the time no matter what your killboard looks like. They know what you can do and why would you care what anyone else thinks about your stats?
Logi getting on KMs feels like it should be a low priority to me, it might be nice to see that you are doing things in case you ever need to apply to other corps/alliances but the game still functions without that so it really doesn't feel important to me. |

Rhatar Khurin
Happy Asteroid Ltd
507
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 13:34:00 -
[25] - Quote
Personally i don't see why anyone would remotely care if their logistic ship didn't get on the KM. |

JC Anderson
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
1047
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 14:01:00 -
[26] - Quote
Never really cared much myself either, but I do know CCP said that this will be added in the near future, and that many players wanted it. So I can't help but be curious about it. I don't actually have to like, or want a change to the game to admit that it might be a good idea. ;) |

Pew Terror
Green Associates
82
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 14:25:00 -
[27] - Quote
Shut up and rep me while i solo... |

Killian Redbeard
Ironhand Research and Industrial Corp SoulWing Alliance
26
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 14:34:00 -
[28] - Quote
If logi get on km they should also show up on the km for who they were trying to save that died as a loss. |

Aralyn Cormallen
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
180
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 14:43:00 -
[29] - Quote
I don't get an easy way this can be done, at present, people appear on a killmail if they have performed an effect on the dead ship, this is something a Logi isn't doing, it is performing an action on a completely different ship. If youGÇÖre argueing that your effect on a ship involved in the killing should be inherited by the ship it killed, this creates a whole spaghetti mess of someone getting on killmail because they shot someone, who ecmGÇÖed someone else, who shot someone, who died. And where do you stop? Maybe I should get on extra killmails for sensor dampening you, which means you repped less damage ships; but that would mean I would get on the killmails of my own side, since my effects are being inherited through you, whose repping ships that are shooting my sideGǪ but shouldnGÇÖt I be getting on the killmaills of the guys you didnGÇÖt rep, since that means I contributed to them dying? Any system that doesnGÇÖt involve yards of coding that will present a potential future trip-hazard for later game changes will ultimately result in everyone on grid getting on every killmail, which kinda negates half the point of killmails in the first place.
I agree that Logi pilots deserve accolades and recognition from their organisations, and good organisations should be finding ways to recognise the contributions of their Logi pilots, scouts, cynos, boosters, and all the non-line DPS pilots. But killmails just doesnGÇÖt work as an easy way to do this.
|

Shederov Blood
777
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 14:48:00 -
[30] - Quote
If logistics pilots who didn't actually attack the enemy ship feel they deserve some credit for the kill, I believe there are other people who also shouldn't be left out: - Off-grid boosters - Manufacturers who built the ships that were used to kill other ships - Miners who mined the minerals used to build the ships that killed other ships |
|

Macabre Combine
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
14
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 14:56:00 -
[31] - Quote
Laiannah Sahireen wrote:I know this is an idea that CCP are aware of and that has been posted about on numerous occasions, so I'm not going to try and phrase it as a 'feature suggestion' or anything. I'm just wondering if anybody knows what the latest update is on this in terms of whether they are working on it, whether they have tabled it for the time being or what.
If anybody from CCP has the time to answer I'd really like to know which of the following categories this falls into:
1) There's some kind of technical hurdle making this difficult to implement 2) There's no technical hurdle but it's still a large piece of work and you don't have time 3) You don't want to do this because you are all incredibly evil people who hate logistics pilots and secretly plot to thwart us at every turn.
Anybody in the know care to enlighten me?
Logi pilots don't need to ***** kill mails, kill mails don't make you good. |

Caviar Liberta
Moira. Villore Accords
448
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 15:06:00 -
[32] - Quote
Seven Koskanaiken wrote:Bring a warrior II, or civilian gatling in the spare high slot.
Bait logi works also. Fit logi with 1 remote rep and the rest with the appropriate weapon type and you are on the kill mail. |

JC Anderson
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
1047
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 15:16:00 -
[33] - Quote
Aralyn Cormallen wrote:I don't get an easy way this can be done, at present, people appear on a killmail if they have performed an effect on the dead ship, this is something a Logi isn't doing, it is performing an action on a completely different ship. If youGÇÖre argueing that your effect on a ship involved in the killing should be inherited by the ship it killed, this creates a whole spaghetti mess of someone getting on killmail because they shot someone, who ecmGÇÖed someone else, who shot someone, who died. And where do you stop? Maybe I should get on extra killmails for sensor dampening you, which means you repped less damage ships; but that would mean I would get on the killmails of my own side, since my effects are being inherited through you, whose repping ships that are shooting my sideGǪ but shouldnGÇÖt I be getting on the killmaills of the guys you didnGÇÖt rep, since that means I contributed to them dying? Any system that doesnGÇÖt involve yards of coding that will present a potential future trip-hazard for later game changes will ultimately result in everyone on grid getting on every killmail, which kinda negates half the point of killmails in the first place.
I agree that Logi pilots deserve accolades and recognition from their organisations, and good organisations should be finding ways to recognise the contributions of their Logi pilots, scouts, cynos, boosters, and all the non-line DPS pilots. But killmails just doesnGÇÖt work as an easy way to do this.
I think one of the ideas was to count the total rep the Logi applied to others on that KM as damage. |

WASPY69
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
166
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 15:28:00 -
[34] - Quote
Rhatar Khurin wrote:Personally i don't see why anyone would remotely care if their logistic ship didn't get on the KM. So much this. I mean we're all killmail whores and there's no denying it. Especially if you're up against something shiny and you wanna unscrew your horrible efficiency on the killboards. What I always do though is get a flight of DPS drones, launch, and assign to the tankiest ship in the fleet like a brick Damnation or something similar, and let my drones ***** away. But in the heat of the battle my priority is still the fleet broadcast window though, and whoring comes second. |

Shadowschild
House Aratus Fatal Ascension
64
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 15:31:00 -
[35] - Quote
As a logistics pilot your drone bay should always have T2 logi drones. Which should always be on the logi anchor or the FC. If your dropping any other type of drones it looks bad & other fleet members will take notice. Don't be that guy.
If your fitting your ship with anything unrelated to your role, you should not get any reimbursement. Be content with a pap link & do your best to keep your buddies alive. |

Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
341
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 15:37:00 -
[36] - Quote
Shadowschild wrote:As a logistics pilot, you get pap link & usually more then 100% reimbursement.
Ship replacement is not a universal condition of being a logistics pilot (we put all of our loot and ISK towards other things and no-one has their ships replaced, whether ewar, dps or logi).
I personally love flying logi and have no problem with not whoring on killmails as I get enough at other times when not in fleet, but that doesn't mean I'm not intrigued on whether any progression has been made on a project that CCP indicated they were going to work on. eve-bazaar - I'm not associated with them, but support it as a worthwhile service |

James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
9075
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 15:37:00 -
[37] - Quote
What's a pap link "Pretty much all 14 of the CSM were in favor of a drone assign nerf for OBVIOUS gameplay reasons" - Sala Cameron
|

Chimay
Release The Kraken Architecture
11
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 15:40:00 -
[38] - Quote
They won't add it for the simple fact that the existing Killboards would illustrate all the people running around with Logi alts to save their ass and people would now be able to identify they have a logi alt carrying them in PVP. Thus they would find far less encounters. Those encounters would be less value because it's now shown on the KB it wasn't a solo kill.
I don't have the skills trained to even fly a logi, but the value in the roll is great and should be recognized. The value is so good however a great deal have logi alts and it's a conflict to interest to them. The powers to be that currently have them will fight tooth and nail to protect it.
|

Shadowschild
House Aratus Fatal Ascension
64
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 15:42:00 -
[39] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Shadowschild wrote:As a logistics pilot, you get pap link & usually more then 100% reimbursement. Ship replacement is not a universal condition of being a logistics pilot (we put all of our loot and ISK towards other things and no-one has their ships replaced, whether ewar, dps or logi). I personally love flying logi and have no problem with not whoring on killmails as I get enough at other times when not in fleet, but that doesn't mean I'm not intrigued on whether any progression has been made on a project that CCP indicated they were going to work on.
Your taking that statement out of context & twisting it to fit an argument that doesn't exist. The bottom line is logistics pilots should not be focusing on killmails. CCP would be really wasting their time on this, when there are bigger fish to fry. |

Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
341
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 15:44:00 -
[40] - Quote
Chimay wrote: The value is so good however a great deal have logi alts and it's a conflict to interest to them. The powers to be that currently have them will fight tooth and nail to protect it.
The value is great if you're a good one.
I'd personally like to see a different kind of 'logimail' (really just a killmail but focusing only on logi results). If you rep someone (would have to actually add shield, armour, cap, hull and not be 0 like you can with damage) then that counts as a save and if the ship goes down, it counts as a loss.
You could have separate logistics boards then that track good logistics pilots.
But this is all just wild dream stuff. We don't really need it, just a nice thing to have if it was ever possible.
eve-bazaar - I'm not associated with them, but support it as a worthwhile service |
|

Chimay
Release The Kraken Architecture
11
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 15:51:00 -
[41] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Chimay wrote: The value is so good however a great deal have logi alts and it's a conflict to interest to them. The powers to be that currently have them will fight tooth and nail to protect it. The value is great if you're a good one. I'd personally like to see a different kind of 'logimail' (really just a killmail but focusing only on logi results). If you rep someone (would have to actually add shield, armour, cap, hull and not be 0 like you can with damage) then that counts as a save and if the ship goes down, it counts as a loss. You could have separate logistics boards then that track good logistics pilots. But this is all just wild dream stuff. We don't really need it, just a nice thing to have if it was ever possible.
That would be awesome. Showing how much they repaired, Cap transfer, etc. Love it. |

Thead Enco
Killing is Business Get Off My Lawn
94
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 16:21:00 -
[42] - Quote
Laiannah Sahireen wrote:Garnoo wrote:this will never happen... deal with it
or we will get soon requests about getting on kn for beign close to dying target requests I believe it will happen, as I've heard CCP talking about it as something they intend to do in the future. I just don't know any specifics, which is why I was asking.
They also said the same thing about "atmosphereic flight" CCP says a lot of things that get tossed around but only to end up in the "Soon(TM)" bin.
TLDR; Stop your whine HTFU fit a civ gun or dual box with logi/DPS dealers,
"Any man who must say 'I am the king' is no true king."
Tywin Lannister-á |

Frostys Virpio
IRS Fraud
1011
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 17:36:00 -
[43] - Quote
Thead Enco wrote:Laiannah Sahireen wrote:Garnoo wrote:this will never happen... deal with it
or we will get soon requests about getting on kn for beign close to dying target requests I believe it will happen, as I've heard CCP talking about it as something they intend to do in the future. I just don't know any specifics, which is why I was asking. They also said the same thing about "atmosphereic flight" CCP says a lot of things that get tossed around but only to end up in the "Soon(TM)" bin. TLDR; Stop your whine HTFU fit a civ gun or dual box with logi/DPS dealers,
Or just stop caring about useless KM... |

Kitty Bear
Disturbed Friends Of Diazepam Disturbed Acquaintance
1214
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 18:14:00 -
[44] - Quote
It's not a hard concept
to get on the KM you need to do some damage or use hostile e-war
sorry, but remote repairers fulfil neither of those roles
|

Sointu Luonnotar
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
126
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 18:19:00 -
[45] - Quote
Laiannah Sahireen wrote: 1) There's some kind of technical hurdle making this difficult to implement 2) There's no technical hurdle but it's still a large piece of work and you don't have time 3) You don't want to do this because you are all incredibly evil people who hate logistics pilots and secretly plot to thwart us at every turn.
Anybody in the know care to enlighten me?
I'm technically not in the know, but I could make a few educated guesses.
There probably isn't a technical hurdle to overcome - altough I could see in large fleet fights this making parsing killmails even more taxing, but that's about the only true technical hurlde I can think of.
What is probably the issue is to how to handle the flagging of killmail participation, which, I would think isn't technically that difficult (not having firsthand experience with EVE source code I cannot say either way for sure). So, how I envision it is that any ships that receives logistics gets flagged with an "assisted" flag, so any kills these pilots make show the logistics pilot as an assisting pilot. Maybe this would become a whole new column in the killmail system, I don't really know. This assistance flag would remain as long as the pilots remains in the same grid as the logistics pilot.
Now here's obviously one problem - should the logistics pilot get killmails from a pilot they are not actively assisting anymore? Primaries change often, and again talking about big fleet fights people might remain on the same grid for hours. This could make logistics pilots killmail kingpins, and as evidently so, so, so many pilots love to ***** for killmails, in an extreme case the field could be full of logistiscs and little DPS. So I would think, the largest hurdle to overcome is to invent a way to make the system fair for everyone involved and not to break the balance of shiptypes on an average battlefield.
Edit: Reading some of the posts in this thread I would suggest logi pilots going on strike, seeing how lowly people tend to value our contributions. |

Yarda Black
Epidemic.
48
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 18:20:00 -
[46] - Quote
Shadowschild wrote:If one day you apply for a corp, they may randomly check your killboard & you don't want to show up in a logi ship doing zero damage, they will think your a self serving douche.
That's not my experience at all. But we've already established we don't speak to the same people. |

Laiannah Sahireen
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
31
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 19:55:00 -
[47] - Quote
OK let's see...
- For all the people saying "why do you care about KMs so much"? - Think of it this way. How about if CCP had coded it so that only the killing blow shows on a KM? Or only the top damage? Or only those two but nobody else? You would be crying your little eyes out and ranting on the forums about how you totally jammed out that guy in your falcon who was already being murdered by 20 other people. This is a game about spaceships fighting other spaceships. If you're on that grid, risking your ship, then it's reasonable to have an acknowledgement in the battle report that you were actually present. Simple as that. You CANNOT seriously argue that somebody who puts their ship on the line and risks losing it to help their fleet deserves no recognition. Not only do you not deserve the help of people who have trained months to be effective logi pilots, but you're just a flat-out selfish douche.
- For all the people saying "Nooo this would ruin neutral alts" - Oh noes, your super sekrit logi alt that mysteriously appears on grid to rep you when you are "soloing" will now be obvious. This is not a good reason why genuine logi pilots shouldn't get recognition. I honestly couldn't care less that your attempts to look like you're some l33t solo pvper are shown up for what they really are.
- Quote: TLDR; Stop your whine HTFU fit a civ gun or dual box with logi/DPS dealers - This is super adorable. You're just desperate to find somebody to say 'HTFU' to, huh? What I actually said was "Hey, there's a planned feature, does anybody know the timescale?". Yeah that's some serious whining right there. 0/10 wouldn't be trolled by again.
The bottom line is this: CCP have already acknowledged this is a sensible thing to do and have said they plan to do it. It's just a case of wondering if there is an approximate timescale laid out for it. |

Tesco Ergo Sum
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
24
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 20:01:00 -
[48] - Quote
Laiannah Sahireen wrote: [snipped]
The bottom line is this: CCP have already acknowledged this is a sensible thing to do and have said they plan to do it. It's just a case of wondering if there is an approximate timescale laid out for it.
Dear CCP
Please allow others to gauge whether I should be primaried first...
Like I don't have enough problems already!
No thanks, I prefer to fly below the radar.
|

Orlacc
614
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 20:13:00 -
[49] - Quote
My Armor Repairer wants to be on Killmails. "Measure Twice, Cut Once." |

Mike Azariah
DemSal Corporation DemSal Unlimited
852
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 20:36:00 -
[50] - Quote
From the Winter summit minutes
Quote:#10 on the list is to put Logistics pilots onto killmails. Mike Azariah pointed out that Logistics pilots get part of the bounty, so itGÇÖs clearly tracked. Soundwave wondered aloud if itGÇÖs the right solution. GÇ£Logistics pilots want recognition, but is the killmail the right place? Is shoehorning the information into the right place?GÇ¥ Ripard Teg brought up an idea from elsewhere GÇôGÇ£ if youGÇÖre present for a kill, you get kill credit, but likewise if you are repping someone who dies, you get points against you.GÇ¥ Mynnna agreed that whatever solution is settled on here, acknowledging failure should happen as well. Korvin argued that logistics are GÇ£just another thingGÇ¥ involved in a kill, like ammo, modules, etc. and they should be recorded. Ripard Teg pointed out weGÇÖre all gamers and are driven by achievement, and that it also is an intelligence source. GÇ£It sizes up the sides in a fight.GÇ¥ Veritas pointed out that battle reports like that, such as dog .net, do not actually exist in EVE, but if they did, that may be a more appropriate way to display logistics participation. Soundwave concluded that he thinks they should solve it, and heGÇÖs just not sure if killmails are the right place for it
If the logi wasn't a part of the kill why does he get a share of the bounty
If the logi isn't doing damage what does he get aggro/timers when he reps the offensive ships
Either you are a part of the fight or you are not and logis ARE
m Mike Azariah-á CSM8 |
|

Anne Dieu-le-veut
Natl Assn for the Advancement of Criminal People
66
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 20:51:00 -
[51] - Quote
Maybe the code can't differentiate between self reps, passive reps, and RR? They could always just make it that each member of a fleet gets in on a KM. When I ran as a healing class in DAoC, I'd get realm points for group kills as long as I healed someone that actually did some DPS on the kill. |

KIller Wabbit
The Scope Gallente Federation
536
|
Posted - 2014.02.22 05:45:00 -
[52] - Quote
Easy answer - it's something that the majority of players want, CCP trolls hard, there you have it.
CCP Punkturis-á "I want to get in on the goodposter circle jerk!"
|

Laiannah Sahireen
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
32
|
Posted - 2014.02.22 05:49:00 -
[53] - Quote
Anne Dieu-le-veut wrote:Maybe the code can't differentiate between self reps, passive reps, and RR?
If this was true, then ships with an active tanking bonus would get massively increased reps from logi. I'm pretty sure the code can tell.
|

James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
9077
|
Posted - 2014.02.22 07:33:00 -
[54] - Quote
KIller Wabbit wrote:Easy answer - it's something that the majority of players want I seriously doubt that. "Pretty much all 14 of the CSM were in favor of a drone assign nerf for OBVIOUS gameplay reasons" - Sala Cameron
|

James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
9077
|
Posted - 2014.02.22 07:34:00 -
[55] - Quote
Logi should not get on killmails because there's no good, consistent way of making it make sense. "Pretty much all 14 of the CSM were in favor of a drone assign nerf for OBVIOUS gameplay reasons" - Sala Cameron
|

Dave Stark
4363
|
Posted - 2014.02.22 07:35:00 -
[56] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:KIller Wabbit wrote:Easy answer - it's something that the majority of players want I seriously doubt that.
more than those who don't want it, at the very least. |

James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
9077
|
Posted - 2014.02.22 07:38:00 -
[57] - Quote
If you want to be on killmails, stop flying logi. If you want the best of both worlds, carry Warrior IIs and assist them to someone. "Pretty much all 14 of the CSM were in favor of a drone assign nerf for OBVIOUS gameplay reasons" - Sala Cameron
|

Dave Stark
4363
|
Posted - 2014.02.22 07:40:00 -
[58] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:If you want to be on killmails, stop flying logi. If you want the best of both worlds, carry Warrior IIs and assist them to someone.
alternatively, kill mails could just show all the participants in a fight?
not to mention, neither of those 'solutions' work in the conditions that i fly logi in. |

James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
9077
|
Posted - 2014.02.22 07:47:00 -
[59] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:If you want to be on killmails, stop flying logi. If you want the best of both worlds, carry Warrior IIs and assist them to someone. alternatively, kill mails could just show all the participants in a fight? Define participants. "Pretty much all 14 of the CSM were in favor of a drone assign nerf for OBVIOUS gameplay reasons" - Sala Cameron
|

Dave Stark
4363
|
Posted - 2014.02.22 07:50:00 -
[60] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Dave Stark wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:If you want to be on killmails, stop flying logi. If you want the best of both worlds, carry Warrior IIs and assist them to someone. alternatively, kill mails could just show all the participants in a fight? Define participants.
Here. |
|

James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
9077
|
Posted - 2014.02.22 07:52:00 -
[61] - Quote
Contextually, define participants. "Pretty much all 14 of the CSM were in favor of a drone assign nerf for OBVIOUS gameplay reasons" - Sala Cameron
|

Dave Stark
4363
|
Posted - 2014.02.22 07:52:00 -
[62] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Contextually, define participants.
yeah the context doesn't change the definition. |

James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
9077
|
Posted - 2014.02.22 08:05:00 -
[63] - Quote
So if I'm a midpoint cyno 2 jumps from the battle do I get on all the killmails too? I should since I took part. "Pretty much all 14 of the CSM were in favor of a drone assign nerf for OBVIOUS gameplay reasons" - Sala Cameron
|

Dave Stark
4363
|
Posted - 2014.02.22 08:19:00 -
[64] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:So if I'm a midpoint cyno 2 jumps from the battle do I get on all the killmails too? I should since I took part.
no, you clearly didn't take part. you're 2 jumps from the battle. |

gnshadowninja
Concentrated Evil The Marmite Collective
72
|
Posted - 2014.02.22 08:47:00 -
[65] - Quote
If anyone used to play or still plays League of legends here then you know at the start support never got on kills. then they implemented it so if player A attacked player B and player C healed him, they would get counted on the kill as an assist.
Im unaware of why you guys are giving him a hard time, he plays an important role in eve and most people whine and cry about there being no logi because everyone wants to be DPS (like every game), this guy just wants to get his share on the kills.
I think this would give a great incentive to players to play a different role and be more involved with the support role. M33P |

James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
9077
|
Posted - 2014.02.22 08:53:00 -
[66] - Quote
So if I do a single cycle of cap transfer on an enemy DPS ship, do I get on all their killmails too? Could I just rep two people once and get on most of the kills in a battle? "Pretty much all 14 of the CSM were in favor of a drone assign nerf for OBVIOUS gameplay reasons" - Sala Cameron
|

Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
349
|
Posted - 2014.02.22 09:00:00 -
[67] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:If you want the best of both worlds, carry Warrior IIs and assist them to someone.
To take a bit of liberty I'd suggest that assisting drones is the most common way for logi pilots to ***** on kills. It also contributes DPS (very token DPS, but still), however whoring on the killmail is always secondary to the primary roles of proper positioning, keeping your fleet in the fight and assisting with an extraction.
Often when I fly logi, I'm more often carrying ecm drones to counter the Griffins, Flacons, Blackbirds and other ewar that opponents bring to the fight and instantly target our logi with. Those ships aren't always killed because like logistics, they position themselves out of the melee, but the logistics pilots contribute a lot to neutralising the threat.
I also find that by the time logi hits grid, locks up our inty because it needs reps, reps the inty and then starts scanning the watchlist and broadcasts, the first opponent ships are dropping. By the time you assist drones and they start flying into the fight, the opposing fleet is already depleted (well hopefully).
It's no big issue for me in terms of whoring on, as I get more satisfaction out of repping our ships and keeping the up (especially the interceptor, which can be in low armour or into structure by the time we load grid). The best time in logi is when at the end of a fight, a heap of ships are in structure but no-one died. That's when the logi did a great job to prevent a welp of the fleet.
So for me as above, a separate logimail for both successful logistics and also losses in the fleet would be good. eve-bazaar - I'm not associated with them, but support it as a worthwhile service |

Dave Stark
4363
|
Posted - 2014.02.22 09:05:00 -
[68] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:So if I do a single cycle of cap transfer on an enemy DPS ship, do I get on all their killmails too? Could I just rep two people once and get on most of the kills in a battle?
sure. if you want to ***** on killmails at the detriment of your own fleet, that's fine. |

Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
349
|
Posted - 2014.02.22 09:10:00 -
[69] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:So if I do a single cycle of cap transfer on an enemy DPS ship, do I get on all their killmails too?
That one's funny from a logi perspective.
Some of our logi pilots have their drones set to aggressive as another way of launch and forget, hoping to *****-on.
But they often get a kill and end up on the loss mails of our fleet members because the drones sometimes attack the fleet ships we are repping (we have a couple that have even had final blow which is embarassing). It's kind of funny, but some of our guys are going to be accused of being awoxers if they apply to join a different Corp. eve-bazaar - I'm not associated with them, but support it as a worthwhile service |

Zifrian
Licentia Ex Vereor Black Core Alliance
1401
|
Posted - 2014.02.22 11:17:00 -
[70] - Quote
It's probably a technical issue on why they won't do it. I'm sure it *can* be done but the work is probably not equal to the benefit.
Killmails work on a pretty simple concept, when your ship died who shot at it to kill it? For instance, an interdictor that pops a bubble and prevents someone from leaving contributed to the kill even though they didn't get the kill mail. There are a bunch of others. To add in someone like a logi or a person that never fired a shot, you would have to add all sorts of new tracking and that's a lot of work.
I personally would like to see killmails more equal in all aspects for ships on grid. For instance I have a kill of a bomber that had his mwd on where I got the lucky bomb and killed him. It looks like it was a solo kill but it was basically 5 of us chasing down 3. How many times was someone simply overwhelmed by a gate camp but died to 3 people in the end? If a killmail is going to tell a better story, then it needs a lot more work. I'd like to see that because it could provide a better idea of what happened and how a particular player plays. But it seems like currently, the disqus comments can serve that purpose if people really want to know.
So really what would be gained by adding logi or other non-damage ship contributions? Worth the cost to do it? GÇ£Any fool can criticize, condemn, and complain - and most fools do. GÇ¥ - Dale Carnegie
Maximze your Industry Potential! - Download EVE Isk per Hour! |
|

Arduemont
The State of War. Vendetta Mercenary Group
3108
|
Posted - 2014.02.22 11:25:00 -
[71] - Quote
Laiannah Sahireen wrote: I believe it will happen, as I've heard CCP talking about it as something they intend to do in the future.
Don't get me wrong. I am a supporter of Logi on killmails. But CCP makes a lot of promises and doesn't fulfil many of them at all. There are a great many things CCP have said we will get, but in all likelihood we never will.
"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf |

Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
1071
|
Posted - 2014.02.22 11:33:00 -
[72] - Quote
Laiannah Sahireen wrote:Yarda Black wrote:You're either logi or not This is nonsense. It's a PVP game and logistics is a vital role in PVP, there's no reason for logi pilots to miss out on KMs. Besides, you're completely missing the point. CCP have already said they plan to do this. My question was whether anybody knows what the latest news is on when we might expect it.
The truth is that unless you've applied some dps to the target you have not actually assisted in the kill. You may well have kept your corp mates alive long enough to win the day but this is a wholly different thing.
Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |

Your Dad Naked
State War Academy Caldari State
104
|
Posted - 2014.02.22 17:58:00 -
[73] - Quote
Why are you guys still talking about logi getting standard killmails?
It's been established quite well in here already that putting logi pilots on regular killmails will not work. There have been a couple of good ideas that were discussed for a couple of posts and then ignored for some reason.
Good idea from this thread #1: Logistics specific killboard. Tracks everyone you rep who is involved in a kill/loss. I'll add: There could be a flag that detects when you rep two or more sides of an engagement and doesn't add such data to the killboard.
Good idea from this thread #2: Logistics recognition on battle reports. This would involve adding a new system that effectively flags all logistics ships on grid whenever a killmail is generated (logi that were involved in the kill). This means any logistic ship that attempted to repair a killed ship or any logistic ship that actively repaired a DPS/ewar ship would appear as a separate entry within the killmail. It's not a "kill" for them, just a set of data showing all the logi ships (from both sides) on grid for any given kill. The main problem with this idea is, "How would you know which side they were fighting for?". Most times it would be obvious but sometimes (NPC corp) it wouldn't be possible.
Also, those saying cyno should get credit aren't making much sense. They are several jumps away. How about the line gets drawn with ships on grid? |

James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
9079
|
Posted - 2014.02.22 20:08:00 -
[74] - Quote
It's another proposal to move the line, just as yours is. I think the line is fine where it is (with ships that have dealt damage or ewar effects). "Pretty much all 14 of the CSM were in favor of a drone assign nerf for OBVIOUS gameplay reasons" - Sala Cameron
|

Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
355
|
Posted - 2014.02.22 22:02:00 -
[75] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:The truth is that unless you've applied some dps to the target you have not actually assisted in the kill. You may well have kept your corp mates alive long enough to win the day but this is a wholly different thing.
Actually, that's not true at all. DPS is not the criteria for appearing on the kill mail.
Activating an offensive module appears to be the criteria for appearing on the kill. Scrams, points, webs, target painters, tracking disruptors, dampeners and many, many other non-DPS modules qualify. Like logi repping fleet members, the purpose of those modules isn't to do damage, but to reduce the ability of the opponent to deal his damage effectively (or to escape). We have lots of kill mails where a ship appears without having done any DPS, but it still contributed to the kill.
Ironically, if a logi accidentally reps the opponent (eg. When controlling drones rather than assisting), then the logi will appear on the kill mail even though the effect was to assist the opponent by accident, because remote rappers are also offensive modules. eve-bazaar - I'm not associated with them, but support it as a worthwhile service |

Wacktopia
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
625
|
Posted - 2014.02.23 01:27:00 -
[76] - Quote
Rep the prime once. Problem solved. ...... What?  Forums are playing EVE too. Fact. |

Spurty
Dimension Door
1232
|
Posted - 2014.02.23 01:46:00 -
[77] - Quote
Personally I thought all of the new aggression mechanics were to do this?
What's the point of this Agro mechanic if not to allow the system to count you as part of the aggression?
*signature is not allowed on the EVE Online forums* |

DSpite Culhach
287
|
Posted - 2014.02.23 07:32:00 -
[78] - Quote
My cat seems obsessed with KM's. She apparently thinks that I'm the official killboard manager, and that if she does not actually drop a dead mouse or lizard next to me while I'm on the internet, it won't be officially recognized that she has killed something.
I find this relevant since I have actually called my cat Eve.
... I really wish those mice had logi's. They don't even seem to be tanking for Cat. ~ |

Yarda Black
Epidemic. Psychosomatic.
48
|
Posted - 2014.02.23 09:21:00 -
[79] - Quote
Wacktopia wrote:Rep the prime once. Problem solved. ...... What? 
That wont work m8 :) |

Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
2298
|
Posted - 2014.02.23 11:12:00 -
[80] - Quote
Logi pilot assists one drone to one combat ship at the start of the fight, focuses entirely on logistics the entire fight, ends up on 300 km's because he kept a DPS ship alive.
Why do they need to code something in thats already effortless? Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
|
|

Motoko Innocentius
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
6
|
Posted - 2014.02.23 11:33:00 -
[81] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:Logi pilot assists one drone to one combat ship at the start of the fight, focuses entirely on logistics the entire fight, ends up on 300 km's because he kept a DPS ship alive.
Why do they need to code something in thats already effortless?
Because it's a completely idiotic crutch for logistics, i'd rather have my drones either as reppers or warriors whom i can control at will to do what needs to be done on the field, wether it's that light tackle coming for logistics, killing ecm drones or giving that extra push of rep power on one of my fleet members.
On why km's have any importance, it's a metric for what you have done and how much in eve. It's actually useful for corporation recruiters to have actual factual data on how much fleet participation a pilot gives, with what and at what times. Currently a good logistic pilot rarely shows on a battle report due to using any offensive capability he has on more meaningful tasks and using his focus on keeping himself positioned well and bringing his logistical powers on the friendly fleet.
The other great point of km's is the bragging rights, players love to brag about what they've done and it's a great feelign to have been part of a great dunk.
On the whole topic, i've also seen these posts by ccp, from what i remember, there was no timetable given for this as they had no real idea of how to do this.
Edit: And grath, what you are basicly saying is "why do you need doors in cars ? You can easily just open a window, crawl through it and you're outside. Theres really no need for doors on cars, why should the manufacturers build doors when they arleady circumvented so effortlessly ? |

Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
2298
|
Posted - 2014.02.23 11:39:00 -
[82] - Quote
Motoko Innocentius wrote: Edit: And grath, what you are basicly saying is "why do you need doors in cars ? You can easily just open a window, crawl through it and you're outside. Theres really no need for doors on cars, why should the manufacturers build doors when they arleady circumvented so effortlessly ?
No what I'm saying is there is a perfectly functional mechanic currently working in game and you are asking CCP to devote programing time to something that doesn't actually need a fix because, as I said, a method thats really easy to use already exists.
Why should other things that need fixing in game wait when what you're collectively asking for is a simple move of "Right Click Assign Drone Do Logi's Normal Job"? Hardly climbing through a window to get into a car at all, but thanks for exaggerating.
Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
|

Dave Stark
4372
|
Posted - 2014.02.23 11:45:00 -
[83] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:Logi pilot assists one drone to one combat ship at the start of the fight, focuses entirely on logistics the entire fight, ends up on 300 km's because he kept a DPS ship alive.
Why do they need to code something in thats already effortless?
except that doesn't work in the situation i logi in. in fact, i can't do anything offensive at all in the situation i logi in, therefore i'm never going to get on any kill mails despite how many fights i participate in.
they need to code it because your solution simply doesn't work, at all, for every situation. |

Motoko Innocentius
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
6
|
Posted - 2014.02.23 11:50:00 -
[84] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:Motoko Innocentius wrote: Edit: And grath, what you are basicly saying is "why do you need doors in cars ? You can easily just open a window, crawl through it and you're outside. Theres really no need for doors on cars, why should the manufacturers build doors when they arleady circumvented so effortlessly ?
No what I'm saying is there is a perfectly functional mechanic currently working in game and you are asking CCP to devote programing time to something that doesn't actually need a fix because, as I said, a method thats really easy to use already exists. Why should other things that need fixing in game wait when what you're collectively asking for is a simple move of "Right Click Assign Drone Do Logi's Normal Job"? Hardly climbing through a window to get into a car at all, but thanks for exaggerating. EDIT: Oh and you should get together on this, because one guy in this thread was told to just attack other ships and said that was too much effort and took away from his ability to properly care for his wards. So here's you saying you wouldn't mind using your warriors to do exactly that. So either he's bad at multi tasking or you're a poor logistics pilot, regardless, currently if you're in a logi the means exists for you to show that you were in a fight and productive in applying damage to a victim. Calling that a 'crutch' doesn't negate the fact that we have a game where tons of stuff needs attention and you want them to devote time to coding you a way to do less in a fight and get more.
Theres no difference between my example and your claim. Both are about doing something in a none optimal way. Why should something else be more important? Poses, only a small amount of people from the whole population manages those. Titans/sc's , only a small fraction flies those, no point in fixing it... could go on with this, fixing something thats not working in an optimal way is always useful for the game. Just because you are not interested in logistics pilots getting on killmails doesn't mean someone else wouldn't be interested in it, and those other people would be more than glad to have this fix.
So, I see no reason why a games small problems aren't as meaningful for the game as whole as big problems. But thats clearly something you do not understand. You sound like an ea marketer who sees all these problems/bugs in a game and goes on saying "yeah we can sell this, it doesn't matter if it's full of small fuckups, players can just go around those".
|

Dave stark
4372
|
Posted - 2014.02.23 11:51:00 -
[85] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:currently if you're in a logi the means exists for you to show that you were in a fight and productive in applying damage to a victim.
but why should you only be recognised as a participant in a fight if you did something offensive? logi participate just as much as any one else, regardless of if they did damage or not.
imagine if the criteria were just killing blows, imagine how upset most combat pilots would feel. they participated just as much as the guy that got the last shot in. |

Seven Koskanaiken
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
883
|
Posted - 2014.02.23 11:52:00 -
[86] - Quote
Mike Azariah wrote:From the Winter summit minutesQuote:#10 on the list is to put Logistics pilots onto killmails. Mike Azariah pointed out that Logistics pilots get part of the bounty, so itGÇÖs clearly tracked. Soundwave wondered aloud if itGÇÖs the right solution. GÇ£Logistics pilots want recognition, but is the killmail the right place? Is shoehorning the information into the right place?GÇ¥ Ripard Teg brought up an idea from elsewhere GÇôGÇ£ if youGÇÖre present for a kill, you get kill credit, but likewise if you are repping someone who dies, you get points against you.GÇ¥ Mynnna agreed that whatever solution is settled on here, acknowledging failure should happen as well. Korvin argued that logistics are GÇ£just another thingGÇ¥ involved in a kill, like ammo, modules, etc. and they should be recorded. Ripard Teg pointed out weGÇÖre all gamers and are driven by achievement, and that it also is an intelligence source. GÇ£It sizes up the sides in a fight.GÇ¥ Veritas pointed out that battle reports like that, such as dog .net, do not actually exist in EVE, but if they did, that may be a more appropriate way to display logistics participation. Soundwave concluded that he thinks they should solve it, and heGÇÖs just not sure if killmails are the right place for it If the logi wasn't a part of the kill why does he get a share of the bounty If the logi isn't doing damage what does he get aggro/timers when he reps the offensive ships Either you are a part of the fight or you are not and logis ARE m
Hi Mike
Can you get my cloaky prober/warp in on the mail as well m8 |

Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
2298
|
Posted - 2014.02.23 12:34:00 -
[87] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote: but why should you only be recognised as a participant in a fight if you did something offensive? .
You are currently recognized for dying in a fight, which isn't offensive, and simply adding in people who 'were there' means that cov ops scouts, in cynos, bombers who never fired a bomb, basically everybody in system deserves to be on every killmail because they're all performing some function in that battle, regardless of the value you personally put on it.
Furthermore if your group doesn't properly recognize its logistics hero's then that sounds like a problem with your particular group. We celebrate our logistics pilots and even reward the most dedicated of them in fairly insane ways.
The means for logistics to show on killmails is there, it takes almost zero effort from said logistics pilots, stop being greedy, you don't see threads for cov ops scouts wanting to be on killmails, even though most of them too have the means to get on a mail, so why should you be any different. Use the tools that exist and let the game developer focus on fixing the things that matter.
Dave Stark wrote:
imagine if the criteria were just killing blows, imagine how upset most combat pilots would feel. they participated just as much as the guy that got the last shot in.
Many people would prefer it were this way so that it removed the intel that can be gathered by a killmail. Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
|

IDGAD
The Scope Gallente Federation
83
|
Posted - 2014.02.23 12:41:00 -
[88] - Quote
A few notes:
Drones are not immediate damage. They have a flight time and this means you can miss many kills by the target being killed before the drones get their first shot.
Drones have a limited range of engagement, so for sniping fleets they are usually not effective from non dedicated droneboats.
Drones will not aggress non criminal targets in lowsec, so drone assist does nothing for most of us evil piwates that need to have our PvP deterred at every turn because we are so evil  |

Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
365
|
Posted - 2014.02.23 12:48:00 -
[89] - Quote
IDGAD wrote:Drones will not aggress non criminal targets in lowsec, so drone assist does nothing for most of us evil piwates that need to have our PvP deterred at every turn because we are so evil  What? Are you sure?
Assisted drones should attack the opponent being shot by the assisted pilot.
Controlled drones should attack whoever you tell them to.
All drones are a little bit rogue, so strange things do happen but I've not noticed what you've written. Interested to know if it's true. eve-bazaar - I'm not associated with them, but support it as a worthwhile service |

Dave Stark
4372
|
Posted - 2014.02.23 12:51:00 -
[90] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:Dave Stark wrote: but why should you only be recognised as a participant in a fight if you did something offensive? .
You are currently recognized for dying in a fight, which isn't offensive, and simply adding in people who 'were there' means that cov ops scouts, in cynos, bombers who never fired a bomb, basically everybody in system deserves to be on every killmail because they're all performing some function in that battle, regardless of the value you personally put on it. Furthermore if your group doesn't properly recognize its logistics hero's then that sounds like a problem with your particular group. We celebrate our logistics pilots and even reward the most dedicated of them in fairly insane ways. The means for logistics to show on killmails is there, it takes almost zero effort from said logistics pilots, stop being greedy, you don't see threads for cov ops scouts wanting to be on killmails, even though most of them too have the means to get on a mail, so why should you be any different. Use the tools that exist and let the game developer focus on fixing the things that matter. Dave Stark wrote:
imagine if the criteria were just killing blows, imagine how upset most combat pilots would feel. they participated just as much as the guy that got the last shot in.
Many people would prefer it were this way so that it removed the intel that can be gathered by a killmail.
i like the way you casually ignore the fact that your suggestion doesn't work in all situations, especially mine. there are no tools to get me on a killmail.
people do love me for being logi, however i've got nothing to show for it other than a few people going "dave's a cool guy" which is nice, but every one else has killmails to link and say "hey look at this" i've just got "yeah i was there too.." but nobody would know.
and there's a difference between "being near by" and "participating" afk cloaking in a system isn't participating. being involved in an actual fight is participating. so no, cyno alts and irrelevant **** that weren't involved in the fight don't need to be on killmails. just because a fight happened because some one lit a cyno doesn't mean they participated in a fight. facilitating =/= participating.
currently the situation is that kill mails simply do not actually resemble what took place in that fight, it just shows a list of people with offensive modules and very little else. currently they're pretty half arsed in that respect. |
|

Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
2299
|
Posted - 2014.02.23 14:54:00 -
[91] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote: i like the way you casually ignore the fact that your suggestion doesn't work in all situations, especially mine. there are no tools to get me on a killmail.
What exactly is your situation?
This will be the part where you tell me that you don't carry any damage drones so you can be the best logi you can be and at that point i will simply state that if that is your answer you are choosing not to be on a kill mail, not being stopped from doing so.
Dave Stark wrote:and there's a difference between "being near by" and "participating" afk cloaking in a system isn't participating. being involved in an actual fight is participating. so no, cyno alts and irrelevant **** that weren't involved in the fight don't need to be on killmails. just because a fight happened because some one lit a cyno doesn't mean they participated in a fight. facilitating =/= participating.
Ok, you use a cov ops to get a warp in on the enemy fleet, then use the same cov ops to provide on grid bounce spots around the fight for repositioning.
Why doesn't that guy deserve to get on the mail, he's 100% most definitely involved in the fight.
What about a titan that bridges a force into the fight? He's 100% involved because the fleet that gets bridged in wouldn't be in that fight at all had it not been for that titan, should we now add him to the mail as well?
Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
|

Dave Stark
4373
|
Posted - 2014.02.23 15:05:00 -
[92] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:Dave Stark wrote: i like the way you casually ignore the fact that your suggestion doesn't work in all situations, especially mine. there are no tools to get me on a killmail.
What exactly is your situation? This will be the part where you tell me that you don't carry any damage drones so you can be the best logi you can be and at that point i will simply state that if that is your answer you are choosing not to be on a kill mail, not being stopped from doing so. Dave Stark wrote:and there's a difference between "being near by" and "participating" afk cloaking in a system isn't participating. being involved in an actual fight is participating. so no, cyno alts and irrelevant **** that weren't involved in the fight don't need to be on killmails. just because a fight happened because some one lit a cyno doesn't mean they participated in a fight. facilitating =/= participating. Ok, you use a cov ops to get a warp in on the enemy fleet, then use the same cov ops to provide on grid bounce spots around the fight for repositioning. Why doesn't that guy deserve to get on the mail, he's 100% most definitely involved in the fight. What about a titan that bridges a force into the fight? He's 100% involved because the fleet that gets bridged in wouldn't be in that fight at all had it not been for that titan, should we now add him to the mail as well?
generally if i'm flying logi, it's for a bit of corp on corp violence, usually in high sec.. i can carry all the damage drones i want; they're not going to do me any good.
that cov ops is just a means of bypassing this game's horrible piloting mechanics. i appreciate that statement is entirely up for debate however if the mechanics of moving your ship in space weren't so restricted and quite frankly bad you wouldn't need to bounce to and from a cov ops ship. but no, he wasn't involved in the fight at all. he didn't get involved in the slightest, he was just a mobile bookmark to get around a (debatably) bad system.
again, that titan bridge isn't part of the fight. he's a few jumps out, he's certainly now here near the goddamn fight and should appear as close to the kill mail as he was to the fight; obviously nowhere bloody near it. moving ships around has nothing to do with having a fight in regards to "i should be on a kill mail cos actually moving ships in eve sucks".
if offensive ewar gets players put on the killmail, then so should the non-offensive stuff. eccm, reps, sebos, cap transfers etc. i'd probably draw the line at links though, and justify it by saying it's not a module you activate on a targeted ship. pretty weak justification but the line has to be somewhere, but "only ships doing offensive things" shouldn't be where the line is. |

Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
2299
|
Posted - 2014.02.23 17:36:00 -
[93] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Grath Telkin wrote:Dave Stark wrote: i like the way you casually ignore the fact that your suggestion doesn't work in all situations, especially mine. there are no tools to get me on a killmail.
What exactly is your situation? This will be the part where you tell me that you don't carry any damage drones so you can be the best logi you can be and at that point i will simply state that if that is your answer you are choosing not to be on a kill mail, not being stopped from doing so. Dave Stark wrote:and there's a difference between "being near by" and "participating" afk cloaking in a system isn't participating. being involved in an actual fight is participating. so no, cyno alts and irrelevant **** that weren't involved in the fight don't need to be on killmails. just because a fight happened because some one lit a cyno doesn't mean they participated in a fight. facilitating =/= participating. Ok, you use a cov ops to get a warp in on the enemy fleet, then use the same cov ops to provide on grid bounce spots around the fight for repositioning. Why doesn't that guy deserve to get on the mail, he's 100% most definitely involved in the fight. What about a titan that bridges a force into the fight? He's 100% involved because the fleet that gets bridged in wouldn't be in that fight at all had it not been for that titan, should we now add him to the mail as well? generally if i'm flying logi, it's for a bit of corp on corp violence, usually in high sec.. i can carry all the damage drones i want; they're not going to do me any good. that cov ops is just a means of bypassing this game's horrible piloting mechanics. i appreciate that statement is entirely up for debate however if the mechanics of moving your ship in space weren't so restricted and quite frankly bad you wouldn't need to bounce to and from a cov ops ship. but no, he wasn't involved in the fight at all. he didn't get involved in the slightest, he was just a mobile bookmark to get around a (debatably) bad system. again, that titan bridge isn't part of the fight. he's a few jumps out, he's certainly now here near the goddamn fight and should appear as close to the kill mail as he was to the fight; obviously nowhere bloody near it. moving ships around has nothing to do with having a fight in regards to "i should be on a kill mail cos actually moving ships in eve sucks". if offensive ewar gets players put on the killmail, then so should the non-offensive stuff. eccm, reps, sebos, cap transfers etc. i'd probably draw the line at links though, and justify it by saying it's not a module you activate on a targeted ship. pretty weak justification but the line has to be somewhere, but "only ships doing offensive things" shouldn't be where the line is.
So basically only your opinion of what contributes to a fight then, because without that cov ops, your fleet would likely miss most of those kills, and without that titan, you wouldn't have ever had that fight, and without those links, you likely would have gotten stomped in that fight.
And corp on corp violence in high sec still allows you to assist a drone to a combat ship in your corp.
What it sounds more like is that you're trying that neutral repping crap and want to get on mails, otherwise theres no reason you can't assist a drone like any other logistics pilot.
Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
|

Dave stark
4376
|
Posted - 2014.02.23 18:03:00 -
[94] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:And corp on corp violence in high sec still allows you to assist a drone to a combat ship in your corp.
What it sounds more like is that you're trying that neutral repping crap and want to get on mails, otherwise theres no reason you can't assist a drone like any other logistics pilot.
correct, neutral repping. |

Dave stark
4376
|
Posted - 2014.02.23 18:05:00 -
[95] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:So basically only your opinion of what contributes to a fight then, because without that cov ops, your fleet would likely miss most of those kills, and without that titan, you wouldn't have ever had that fight, and without those links, you likely would have gotten stomped in that fight.
once again facilitating =/= participating. that titan and that covops didn't participate in the fight. they were just "there", except the titan that was like 4 systems away. |

Lord Maldoror
Fairlight Corp Rooks and Kings
517
|
Posted - 2014.02.23 18:17:00 -
[96] - Quote
I've never minded that Logistics ships don't show up on killmails. I understand that a logistics pilot wants to be remembered as an important (perhaps, indeed, the most important) part of the fight. However, the mechanic as it is creates a number of important consequences:
1) It makes it harder for massive groups to track logistic participation, since they can't simply use killmail stats. This, in turn, leads to sub-optimal fleet compositions which allows smaller groups, on occasion, to defeat them against the odds.
2) The need for good statistics on participation in large alliances leads to custom solutions like the creation of 'PAP' stats, which assign points to different vessels and track participation in enormous detail using OOG tools. Essentially, this thus generates 'jobs' in the Eve metagame.
3) The more complex the meta, the more room for creativity and manipulation.
4) The absence of logistics on killmails rewards those alliances and groups who can motivate players to fulfill key roles on the basis of narrative causes. Narrative arcs are better motivations than Battleclinic scores in terms of generating Eve's great stories.
5) As Grath mentioned, means do exist to get your logistics ship onto a killmail, if you so choose.
I'm not massively against logistics being on killmails but equally I see no desperate need to change the status quo on this. RnK is a group that has traditionally relied extremely on its logistic ship support. If we would have been unable to motivate our logi pilots to make that their calling in life beyond a KB score, then in the end we would have rightly failed.
I doubt Agent Xer0 knows what his Battleclinic score is, or has ever even looked at it. It is simply not a measure of his reputation and worth: he counts only in fleets routed versus fleets lost. In a way, the mechanic, as it is, favours those who can play for the bigger picture. The same is true for scouts, cynos, etc. - and the groups that can find narrative means to reward those pursuits are rightly rewarded in turn by results.
Rooks and Kings Youtube |

Dave Stark
4377
|
Posted - 2014.02.23 18:20:00 -
[97] - Quote
Lord Maldoror wrote:5) As Grath mentioned, means do exist to get your logistics ship onto a killmail, if you so choose. as i pointed out; they only work in a handful of situations at best. |

Agondray
Avenger Mercenaries VOID Intergalactic Forces
34
|
Posted - 2014.02.23 18:31:00 -
[98] - Quote
Jezza McWaffle wrote:Lol any Logi pilot who tries to ***** on kill mails is not a good logi pilot
It's a I want kill mails as logi because if I get shot at die as logi my kb looks bad type |

Laiannah Sahireen
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
41
|
Posted - 2014.02.23 18:32:00 -
[99] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Lord Maldoror wrote:5) As Grath mentioned, means do exist to get your logistics ship onto a killmail, if you so choose. as i pointed out; they only work in a handful of situations at best.
This. I do a ton of lowsec pvp and drone assist is sketchy at best. CCP even acknowledged in the Drone Assist thread that it was broken but that fixing it would be a lot of work. |

James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
9080
|
Posted - 2014.02.23 18:32:00 -
[100] - Quote
I still maintain that having logi on killmails would make things ridiculously convoluted. "Pretty much all 14 of the CSM were in favor of a drone assign nerf for OBVIOUS gameplay reasons" - Sala Cameron
|
|

James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
9080
|
Posted - 2014.02.23 18:39:00 -
[101] - Quote
Good lord I'm agreeing with Grath again. "Pretty much all 14 of the CSM were in favor of a drone assign nerf for OBVIOUS gameplay reasons" - Sala Cameron
|

Dave Stark
4382
|
Posted - 2014.02.23 18:41:00 -
[102] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:I still maintain that having logi on killmails would make things ridiculously convoluted. i completely agree.
then again, the same can be said for the current system that shows a bunch of ships that activated offensive modules on a ship. it's a killmail. nobody cares who shot the ship, we only care who killed it. just list who got the finishing blow and be done with it.
the thing is, killmails are half way between "what it says on the can" and what they "should" be. what's currently displayed on them doesn't make massive amounts of sense. it shows you more than who killed who, and less than the whole "story" of the fight. |

James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
9080
|
Posted - 2014.02.23 18:43:00 -
[103] - Quote
Except that wouldn't a good representation at all of who killed it. "Pretty much all 14 of the CSM were in favor of a drone assign nerf for OBVIOUS gameplay reasons" - Sala Cameron
|

Dave Stark
4382
|
Posted - 2014.02.23 18:45:00 -
[104] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Except that wouldn't a good representation at all of who killed it.
yes it would, one player shot at it and it went boom. he killed it. who cares who else was shooting at it, they didn't kill it. that one pilot who landed the final blow did. |

James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
9080
|
Posted - 2014.02.23 18:48:00 -
[105] - Quote
This definition of kill you're no doubt using only for purposes of argumentation is unnecessarily narrow. "Pretty much all 14 of the CSM were in favor of a drone assign nerf for OBVIOUS gameplay reasons" - Sala Cameron
|

Dave Stark
4382
|
Posted - 2014.02.23 18:51:00 -
[106] - Quote
well if we're going to have ships on the kill mail that didn't kill the ships, may as well include all of the ships that didn't kill it not just half of them. |

Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
2299
|
Posted - 2014.02.23 18:54:00 -
[107] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Grath Telkin wrote:And corp on corp violence in high sec still allows you to assist a drone to a combat ship in your corp.
What it sounds more like is that you're trying that neutral repping crap and want to get on mails, otherwise theres no reason you can't assist a drone like any other logistics pilot.
correct, neutral repping.
Oh, well from a certain point of view, this:
Dave Stark wrote: once again facilitating =/= participating. that titan and that covops didn't participate in the fight. they were just "there", except the titan that was like 4 systems away.
Would fit you as well. You're not an active participant in the fight, you're just facilitating it 
You can't really be properly engaged, and as far as a handful of situations, it works in all situations (including low sec, regardless of complaints I know 100% that it works, just like all drone code its sometimes buggy) except yours.
Maybe you should, idk, nut up and actually get in the fight if you want to be on a killmail, neutral repping people get literally zero sympathy from anybody in EvE about anything.
Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
|

Dave Stark
4382
|
Posted - 2014.02.23 19:01:00 -
[108] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Grath Telkin wrote:And corp on corp violence in high sec still allows you to assist a drone to a combat ship in your corp.
What it sounds more like is that you're trying that neutral repping crap and want to get on mails, otherwise theres no reason you can't assist a drone like any other logistics pilot.
correct, neutral repping. Oh, well from a certain point of view, this: Dave Stark wrote: once again facilitating =/= participating. that titan and that covops didn't participate in the fight. they were just "there", except the titan that was like 4 systems away.
Would fit you as well. You're not an active participant in the fight, you're just facilitating it  You can't really be properly engaged, and as far as a handful of situations, it works in all situations (including low sec, regardless of complaints I know 100% that it works, just like all drone code its sometimes buggy) except yours. Maybe you should, idk, nut up and actually get in the fight if you want to be on a killmail, neutral repping people get literally zero sympathy from anybody in EvE about anything.
except i'm not facilitating the fight; the fight would happen with or without me.
you could just accept your solution doesn't work instead of implying i need to grow a pair.
this thread isn't about sympathy. i honestly couldn't give a **** about kill mails as a logi. in fact, i don't really care about them as a whole but the fact remains they display a strange middle distance between "the guy who made a kill" and "everyone in the fight". some people want logi on kill mails, ccp said they might put them on. trying to say they shouldn't be on there doesn't make a great deal of sense *shrug* nor should you have to create dumb situational workarounds. |

Marsha Mallow
63
|
Posted - 2014.02.23 19:07:00 -
[109] - Quote
This stuff is the only interesting counterargument I can see so far. If and when cyno alts and bridging titans demand killboard acknowledgement, we can deal with it at the time amid plenty of guffawing.
This issue wouldn't be at no. 10 on a CSM list if it didn't have some support - it's really difficult to see why anyone would argue against a review? Whilst it's nice to see Mike post to acknowledge it was discussed by CCP & the CSM, where's the plan to resolve it? It looks like it was discussed then discarded. What was the point of the list then?
All of the solutions and counterarguments so far suggest is that there are hidden benefits or out of game solutions to this, but that doesn't mean it isn't a flawed mechanic.
I'd agree with earlier posters that perhaps killboards and killmails need a more comprehensive review and overhaul. If a flag can be put in for "assist" mechanics, it could affect dedicated EWAR ships and caps on field in a support rather than DPS role - it'd make battlereports more interesting and useful.
Someone earlier mentioned LoL - it might be worth considering how other games deal with this and whether it's satisfactory. I played SWTOR warzones for a while, and they implemented a system (as per player requests) in which healers got tagged on every kill people they healed made. It did massively inflate healer killstats, but as far as I know the mechanic didn't break warzones. Scout tanks in WoT receive acknowledgement for lighting up the map. These tools other games use work, so why can't they be implemented here in some form or another?
ps. Warrior IIs are fine, except when fights exceed their range. Logis are frequently at range from DPS ships as well, which makes combat drones useless. It's nice to see some groups reward and aknowledge Logi, but the majority simply can't due to time or ISK constraints. Small groups in particular struggle to get people to continually fly logi, because of a lack of perceived reward/acknowledgement/they see it as a girly role - plus in sub BS fleets it's often an expensive ship to field. Solutions should be considered for the majority of players, not for those who play as a second job. - |

James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
9080
|
Posted - 2014.02.23 19:12:00 -
[110] - Quote
That list was pretty bullshit. There were other demands that got significantly higher support that didn't end up in the final list for whatever reason. Like having an interface to unify settings across all characters and accounts a player might own. "Pretty much all 14 of the CSM were in favor of a drone assign nerf for OBVIOUS gameplay reasons" - Sala Cameron
|
|

Dave Stark
4383
|
Posted - 2014.02.23 19:17:00 -
[111] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Like having an interface to unify settings across all characters and accounts a player might own.
I'd like that, too. having to use that garpa thing is nice but meh, it really should be part of the game. |

Marsha Mallow
63
|
Posted - 2014.02.23 19:22:00 -
[112] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Like having an interface to unify settings across all characters and accounts a player might own. I'd like that, too. having to use that garpa thing is nice but meh, it really should be part of the game. I remember idly scrolling through the list and thinking - heh, yeah, they're not going to do any of that. A shame. I didn't realise Garpa did that though, good to know, I'll have a look - thanks!  - |

Dave Stark
4385
|
Posted - 2014.02.23 19:27:00 -
[113] - Quote
Marsha Mallow wrote:Dave Stark wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Like having an interface to unify settings across all characters and accounts a player might own. I'd like that, too. having to use that garpa thing is nice but meh, it really should be part of the game. I remember idly scrolling through the list and thinking - heh, yeah, they're not going to do any of that. A shame. I didn't realise Garpa did that though, good to know, I'll have a look - thanks!  had to actually scroll down on google (i know, right?) to find a working mirror, though.
what you're looking for is "GarpaUI" |

Erufen Rito
The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People
128
|
Posted - 2014.02.23 19:43:00 -
[114] - Quote
Laiannah Sahireen wrote:Yarda Black wrote:You're either logi or not This is nonsense. It's a PVP game and logistics is a vital role in PVP, there's no reason for logi pilots to miss out on KMs. Besides, you're completely missing the point. CCP have already said they plan to do this. My question was whether anybody knows what the latest news is on when we might expect it. Well, I'm one of the first guys to hop on a logi ship when the FC calls for it. I don't really care about KMs, because I'm satisfied with knowing we did a good job and killed the hostiles and suffered minimal to no loses thanks to the job I and my fellow logibros did. I have no qualms with not whoring on KMs.
Now, IF i want to be on KMs, I'll get on the right type of ship to do so.
To answer the question "Why are logi not on KMs?" Because logi did no DPS to the target, thus didn't help kill it. "But wait! If it werent for logi, DPS ships would die!" And the dead pilot would still be on the KM. So there you have it. Logis are not meant to kill targets, they are meant to avoid or postpone lossmails. This is as nice as I get. Best quote ever https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4137165#post4137165 |

Master Odysseus
Mythos Corp Nulli Secunda
2
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 03:29:00 -
[115] - Quote
QUOTE: """#10 on the list is to put Logistics pilots onto killmails. Mike Azariah pointed out that Logistics pilots get part of the bounty, so itGÇÖs clearly tracked. Soundwave wondered aloud if itGÇÖs the right solution. GÇ£Logistics pilots want recognition, but is the killmail the right place? Is shoehorning the information into the right place?GÇ¥ Ripard Teg brought up an idea from elsewhere GÇôGÇ£ if youGÇÖre present for a kill, you get kill credit, but likewise if you are repping someone who dies, you get points against you.GÇ¥ Mynnna agreed that whatever solution is settled on here, acknowledging failure should happen as well. Korvin argued that logistics are GÇ£just another thingGÇ¥ involved in a kill, like ammo, modules, etc. and they should be recorded. Ripard Teg pointed out weGÇÖre all gamers and are driven by achievement, and that it also is an intelligence source. GÇ£It sizes up the sides in a fight.GÇ¥ Veritas pointed out that battle reports like that, such as dog .net, do not actually exist in EVE, but if they did, that may be a more appropriate way to display logistics participation. Soundwave concluded that he thinks they should solve it, and heGÇÖs just not sure if killmails are the right place for it"""
So you want to punish logi's for "failing" to save the friendly? And where is the punishment of the 1000's DPS ships who "failed" to kill the enemies?
This is kinda BS imo.
And yes, KM *is* the kind of recognition logi pilot want because is the only recognition that everyone accepts and it's the only recognition every single pvp corp / alliance / coalition judges players with and that's their killboard. And if your killboard is crap cuz you're a logi, good luck trying to prove you are not an elephant. (and I don't say that because I'm full time logi and I have crappy KB, my KB is fine, thx).
And no, Iogi's don't want to curry warrior IIs, 1 smartbone and they're gone. And no they don't want to curry 1 sentry, one warp out and it's gone. It's not that logi ships have the drone bay of drone boats. And not much you can do when all the dmg take place outside of your drone control range cuz hey, you won't be fitting those logi high slots with drone link augmentors now, would you?
So give the logi's the recognition they deserve and give them in the KMs, imo.
Logi pilots in B-R or HED or w/e have no proof they ever existed. They can't say "I was there". There's no recognition of their pvp activity besides the paplink that some FCs don't eve give and frankly noone cares about.
Also, there''s no "you are a logi, you care about rep-ing yoru teammates, why do you wanna KM *****"? This is invalid. Logi pilots, the second they enter the logi ship they have nothing to prove about caring for their teammates. Entering the logi ship is proof enough. So, it's not about KM *****-ing, it's about the recognition everyone else gets but the logi pilots.
My 2 cents. |

Xia Kairui
United System's Commonwealth
67
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 08:20:00 -
[116] - Quote
I dunno, I am rather happy if I am not on the kill mail. All a kill mail faciliates is giving out free intel to possible opponents, and I would gladly keep that information out of the hands of people who can use search engines. Sadly someone always posts the mails, I could really do without them.
Well, I DO use killboards to gather intel about people, so keep on posting them please. |

Brusanan
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
156
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 10:53:00 -
[117] - Quote
I think this is necessary, not because I think Logi deserve credit for kills, but because I think a killmail should not make it look like it was a solo kill when there were 6 people repping the killer. Psychotic Monk for CSM! |

seth Hendar
I love you miners
467
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 14:06:00 -
[118] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Except that wouldn't a good representation at all of who killed it. yes it would, one player shot at it and it went boom. he killed it. who cares who else was shooting at it, they didn't kill it. that one pilot who landed the final blow did. yea but the final blow might not have been able to kill it, if the other(s) were not there, because he wasn't able to break the tank, or maintain it pointed or.....you get the point.
with this proposal, we could, in theory, see a carrier killed by an inty doing 1% of damage because an inty is less than 100dps, and any carrier shield natural regen is more than able to tank that.
while the current killmail will show the inty having final blow, but also the other ppl who took part in the kill thus making the kill happen.
this, iao, does also include the logi, because whithout em, many kill would not be possible..... |

Brylan Grey
The Scope Gallente Federation
10
|
Posted - 2014.02.28 02:10:00 -
[119] - Quote
Part of me sooooooo wants my Logi to be on kill mails and get the glory.
But my shady self realizes...
Flying Logi, my kill log seems like I am crappy. So, my enemies underestimate me. They see my loss vs kill numbers and think I don't know what I am doing.
So, I am 50-50 towards the idea of Logi on KMs. |
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 :: [one page] |