|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 15 post(s) |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
519
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 15:04:00 -
[1] - Quote
Quote:For now, I intend to leave it at full strength
it's just one disappointment after another with you guys. anyway, the issue with daredevils is that people abuse links and faction webs for ridiculous range control, for easymode kiting. you should fix this by swapping the hybrid damage bonus for a blaster damage bonus, pushing it toward being a fast honour brawler, which is what it's supposed to be (or you could, you know, fix links). it sure does have a large turret damage bonus. I wonder if that's justified, really not sure.
Quote:Amarr Frigate Bonus: 20% bonus to Afterburner velocity bonus (was 5% energy turret damage)
I'm giving this one 0/10. first of all, I'm pretty sure the current succubus only has 3 highs, not 4, and second I can see all the FW scrubs armour tanking it already, like they do with breachers and hookbills, because webs and tracking disruptors >>>>>> an extra lowslot, and this is a larger issue I guess. anyway, my main issue is being locked into using an AB, which would be ok if you could fit beams and had a range bonus, but you don't, so you just get auto wrecked by kiting ships, because you're in a dumb inflexible brawler that can't do anything. drop the utility high for a midslot, maybe buff up the tracking bonus if you want it to actually be useful - tracking bonuses are pretty weak generally, and find something else for its amarr frigate bonus. solo-wise, there's also the issue that everyone knows what your fitting is, which alone is a pretty good reason for me to never fly it.
Quote:Minmatar Frigate Bonus: 20% bonus to Stasis Webifier range (was 10% bonus to Stasis Webifier effectiveness)
please stop with the web bonuses, they're really horrible and easily abused and broken by kiting scum with links. also, 3 lows and no armour bonus on a pirate armour frigate? this is a joke, it needs 4 or 5 or something. I'd be more looking at 2 midslot no-web bonus stuff. it also looks like it's still ridiculously slow. I think some thought should go into all of the mobility stats on these ships, because they're pretty inconsistent. some of these things currently are as slow as AFs (which also need to be rebalanced), with nothing to show for it.
I really like this one, except the speed. I would like to have 5 mids though. many shield frigates suffer from this - with the strength of webs (nerf webs pls), you really really cannot afford to not have a web, so you're stuck with a 1 slot tank, which sucks. I hope on the gila, you can bring it down to 20 bandwidth with a massive damage and possibly drone speed bonus, because this heavies on cruisers thing is an absolute joke, and sentries, while OP, are not ideal a lot of the time.
meh. it's not really bad, I guess, it's just so dull. I get the same thing with the firetail as this ship - it can do so many different fits, but I don't want to fly any of them.. I don't feel they need buffs, I'm just not interested in them at all. I guess I'm just not a scrub. |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
519
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 15:06:00 -
[2] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Morwennon wrote:Will they still have the slightly odd 350 calibration for rigs, or will that be bumped up to 400 as was done for the empire faction ships? For now the plan is to leave them at the awkward 350. We did have a discussion about this and I don't feel really strongly either way. 400 is nicer for consistency and cleanliness but there also isn't a need for the power boost from the extra 50.
god you guys are awful. stop this ****. or drop the calibration on damage rigs to sensible levels. |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
519
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 15:29:00 -
[3] - Quote
Umberto Burgundh wrote:Not sure about the way you want to evolve Guristas. I mean - when you control 5 drones, well, not a big deal if one doesn't hit. But when you control only two and one of them doesn't hit, you deal only half the damage.
I can only imagine that they were thinking of honourable solo pvpers like me who fly drone ships, and get blobbed and have to leave 5 drones behind every time, then go shopping for more. |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
519
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 15:30:00 -
[4] - Quote
Harvey James wrote: dramiel is supposed too be shield tanked
why |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
519
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 15:39:00 -
[5] - Quote
Harvey James wrote:TrouserDeagle wrote:Harvey James wrote: dramiel is supposed too be shield tanked
why because that's what ISIS says .... shield tanked and masters of projectiles the dramiel and daredevil need stronger focus on what they are supposed to be good at
maybe its versatility should extend to being equally good at both. |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
519
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 15:41:00 -
[6] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:Omnathious Deninard wrote:A similar situation for the Rattlesnake will come up as it is usually Sentries or bust with large drones. Medium drones might need a tracking bonus on the Gila and a tracking and speed bonus on the Rattlesnake for heavies.
drones need a particular amount of tracking for their speed. medium drones to be usable as the main source of damage on a medium ship need to be much faster, and therefore to have a load more tracking as well. drone navs also need to increase tracking, imo. |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
519
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 15:47:00 -
[7] - Quote
Tikktokk Tokkzikk wrote:The Dramiel needs something special other than "OP Firetail", in my opinion. Sansha got afterburners, Blood Raiders got webs and nosferatu, Guristas got super drones, Serpentis got 90% web and Angel got what? I wouldn't mind a nerf to the Angel ships if we got a special bonus like the other pirate races.
actual effective projectile turrets, ridiculous speed, sig, agility and scan res should be enough to make a decent ship.
if not though, I'm voting for split weapons, provided that light missiles are fixed before any more missile frigates are made. |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
519
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 16:37:00 -
[8] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Weaselior wrote:Isn't a theme of "two powerful drones" basically saying "make a drone assist fleet based on these" Carrier assist fleets will be replaced with Worm assist fleets!
gila and rattlesnake though. it's going to happen, isn't it. **** this game. |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
519
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 17:05:00 -
[9] - Quote
Phoenix Jones wrote:I like the drone concept. Consider implementing it with all ships.
it makes drone ships less expensive, but it also diminishes the supposed advantages of drones, it's stupid. |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
519
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 17:39:00 -
[10] - Quote
Phoenix Jones wrote:TrouserDeagle wrote:Phoenix Jones wrote:I like the drone concept. Consider implementing it with all ships.
it makes drone ships less expensive, but it also diminishes the supposed advantages of drones, it's stupid. That advantage wod be lagging the field till people crash? Drone revamp has to happen, and it is. Main part is volume of drones itself. I look forward to the changes
you're talking about blobbing. I'm talking about pvp. |
|
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
519
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 17:40:00 -
[11] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:Hey guys,
We really need some more rants and complains to be going on in this thread please. All the confusion caused by the positive comments is getting to CCP Rise's head - he's becoming irrational and randomly attacking various people in the office. We'd use the straight-jacket to tie him up for a while, but it's currently being occupied by CCP Fozzie as he's having his daily drooling fit.
Thank you for your cooperation citizens.
ok, I'll stop posting constructive criticism and switch to rants. |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
519
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 18:08:00 -
[12] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:A couple more clarifications:
I said 'old nos' in the OP but that can be a bit confusing considering there has been a few different versions. The description provided by bobfrommarketing (I think thats who it was) is very accurate - "Energy Vampires fitted to this ship will drain targeted ship's capacitor regardless of your own capacitor level". So, it will NOT continue to generate cap when your target is empty, it just doesn't have the same limitation has normal nos where you must have less cap than your target. It's been mentioned that the missile damage bonus on the Worm doesn't make sense as a Gallente bonus and should be on the role bonus. I agree that it would be ideal to have it that way in terms of flavor but giving a 60% per level bonus would mean that the ship was basically unusable until you had Gallente Frigate 5 and we really don't like that. And I've also seen at least one person say they thought we were done with damage type specific bonuses, and we are not. It's a nice tool to use in certain places. I can confirm that 10mn AB Succbus is gross, it's 5k/sec or something before links. We are ok with this. In the post I quoted above I just meant to highlight that we are not limited to 300% for the other Guristas ships, but again, let's talk about those when we get to them. Oh and on the Succubus, while we may make small changes to cap for Sansha in general, it is likely that cap will continue to be one of the larger weaknesses. The Succubus has very solid cap stats already and we don't want to use up a bonus to make it even better. If the other advantages the ship offers don't outweigh the cap difficulty we will make a change to something. what exactly is the reasoning behind the gurista thing? why do you not just go with something more normal, like 75 bay, 25 bandwidth, and either a 100% or 200% drone damage/hp bonus? |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
519
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 18:21:00 -
[13] - Quote
Little Blackjack wrote:As for the "special feature", instead of adding 100% AB bonus, you could make a Sansha imune to part of the webs, e.g.
SUCCUBUS: 10% (or 15%) reduction per level of enemy webs
Means, if you are being webbed 90%, this web is effective only 45% (or 23%) with Level V.
This avoids overpowered/overspeeded sansha boats when not webbed but gives a nice add on if webbed.
I like this, but for serpentis instead of the web thing. you get your range dictation so you can apply deeps, but you don't get enable ******** dread blapping and silly gatecamps all that. |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
519
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 18:45:00 -
[14] - Quote
Tertiacero wrote:I would personally love to see the vigilant get a small buff to lock range (enough to make rails a viable option) and have the ashimmu's pg and cpu opened up a tiny bit, enough to cover the difference in meta 4 and t2 plates.
Other than that, looks good so far.
the short lock range is precisely to stop you from using rails on serpentis ships. it hasn't worked, so they should reduce it even further, or drop the bonus to only blasters. |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
519
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 18:57:00 -
[15] - Quote
Ravcharas wrote:Why not extend the Worm bonus to all drones? If someone wants to use a single medium instead of two lights, why not enable that choice?
because it's worse in every way and there's never any reason to ever do it ever |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
519
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 19:02:00 -
[16] - Quote
Ravcharas wrote:TrouserDeagle wrote:Ravcharas wrote:Why not extend the Worm bonus to all drones? If someone wants to use a single medium instead of two lights, why not enable that choice? because it's worse in every way and there's never any reason to ever do it ever Pretty much, except for a quite theoretical paper scenario. But that's not the point. If someone wants to do it why not let them? In order for there to be good choices there also must be poor choices. Or questionable choices. Or indeed edge-case hail-mary choices.
no |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
519
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 19:05:00 -
[17] - Quote
Harvey James wrote:Ashley Animus wrote:Altho the worm is really my favorite at the moment it still feels as if the missile bonus is a bit misplaced.
Currently if you fit 2 rocket launchers on it you have 45dps coming from only those rockets. A 50% increase on damage on only 45dps results in 67.5dps.
A bonus that gives you 22.5dps at best seems a little low (considering you will get around the 200dps from drones alone). And this is only with thermal and kinetic.
I would almost like to see the range bonus back on it since it feels as if that adds more to the power of the missiles rather than this little increase. mmm.. i think the worm should have 3 launchers change the drones too 3 and reduce the bonus so there is a more even split of dps.. more pg and cpu will prob be needed for it
CCP don't like proper split weapons ships for some reason. |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
519
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 19:13:00 -
[18] - Quote
MeBiatch wrote:TrouserDeagle wrote:CCP don't like proper split weapons ships for some reason. its for a damn good reason... its called training time. you need to double the training time when you have split weapon systems... Personally i would go either all missiles or all drones... I really think those small drones need a velocity bonus and tracking bonus to make it a really nasty ship...
it's actually because you're a pleb |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
519
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 19:16:00 -
[19] - Quote
MeBiatch wrote:TrouserDeagle wrote: it's actually because you're a pleb
right when you have no real counter argument bring out the straw man... If you only had a brain...
stop shitposting |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
519
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 19:19:00 -
[20] - Quote
MeBiatch wrote:Tuxedo Catfish wrote:I love all these changes, buffs and nerfs alike. This is the happiest I've been with tiericide since the t1 cruiser changes.
edit: Especially the part about leaving Serpentis mostly alone, since they're the baseline other pirate ships should aim for. while i hope they do not touch serp web bonus i would not be at all suprised if they nerfed it to 7.5% per level making it 82.5% strong and not 90% much like they did with the resist bonus which used to be the best bonus a ship could get.
that's still insanely powerful. try 40% normal webs, 50% serpentis webs. |
|
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
519
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 19:33:00 -
[21] - Quote
WTB: old phantasm skin |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
519
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 20:11:00 -
[22] - Quote
why am I the only one who thinks 3 lowslot cruor is ********? it's awful. |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
519
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 20:42:00 -
[23] - Quote
Nyancat Audeles wrote:NinjaStyle wrote:the Cruor will still be crap with the short neut range there is no meaning in the web range when you have to be within 10km just to neut anyways. I heard about this module called a "MWD"... You should check it out. You know, before you make baseless assumptions. On another note, the Dramiel could use a buff. It's not nearly as good any more...
brawling cruor will die to my jerk scram kite incursus, I'm looking forward to it. unless they have deadspace nos, then they won't. |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
519
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 20:49:00 -
[24] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:To anybody complaining about the Worm.
Stop.
Full stop.
Run the numbers on it first before you complain. Think about what its going to be like using faction drones on your pirate shipo, or rather don't think and let me tell you what its going to be like:
Augmented Warriors
Shield -464 Armor -692 Structure -1040
2196 total hp and Damage output per drone, 24 kinetic and 40 explosive every 4 seconds.
Republic Fleet Warriors
Shield -616 Armor -920 Structure-576
2112 Total Hp and Damage output per drone, 60 explosive damage every 4 seconds.
Those are serious can's of whup ass. You have drones with the hit points of a frigate who punch extremely hard. You are effectively getting 8 drones worth of damage from 2 drones, and if you're engaged in one on one combat with another frigate, he'd be insane to go after your drones because it has two thousand hit points.
He would essentially have to kill you 6 times if he tried to kill off your drones first (once for each of your 5 drones and then once for you).
You should literally have zero complaints about that ship, its nothing short of amazing. Even for PVE, its absolutely amazing, as the drones will tank like a boss. In fact each of your light drones will have nearly twice the Hit points of its relative Heavy drone counterpart (above example - Beserker II has 1459 hp).
Let that sink in for a bit and think about what they're offering you in the new and 100% improved Worm.
I'm not saying bad, I'm just saying pretty odd, and with not much explanation. |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
519
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 21:14:00 -
[25] - Quote
Mike Voidstar wrote:with only two it may open them up to being targeted for Ewar
which is exactly what drone ships are supposed to not get done by. if not ewar, then actually kiting the drones within web range could be a thing. it's dumb, and I don't get the point in it at all. it seems to be just there to give the ship 'flavour' or something. |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
520
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 21:26:00 -
[26] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote: Also all the daredevil nasayers: Leave it alone.
why so bad |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
520
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 21:30:00 -
[27] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:TrouserDeagle wrote:Grath Telkin wrote: Also all the daredevil nasayers: Leave it alone.
why so bad dont be scared of it, its got like, 10 hit points, just break its glass jaw.
can't, I'm 90% webbed at 18km and dying to 150mm railguns and/or blap dreads. |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
520
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 22:01:00 -
[28] - Quote
try using 8km/s warriors vs a linked snaked kiting frigate. your drones are capable of going far faster than the target, but you'll have difficulty breaking the recharge on their mse. this is a problem with drones, and CCP are unwilling to fix it because nobody cares about it except me. |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
520
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 22:23:00 -
[29] - Quote
Leafar Nightfall wrote:I've taken a look at the Gila and one thing I noticed is that it is one of the few cruisers that can field large drones/sentry turrets, which is kind of "oversized" drones for its hull
That being said, none of the frigates can do that (field of mediums), so maybe the Gallente Frigate bonus could be a 5Mbits/s per level. That way you'd be able to field 5 Hammerheads at Gallente Frigate V, which is EXACLTY the same dps of "effective" 8 hobgoblins (158dps without mods). Of course, there are the differences in tracking and so on, but I think that would be fun. That would also give webs a good synergy since that would help both the missiles and the drones to apply DPS.
WORM
Gallente Frigate Bonus: 5Mbit/s Drone Bandwidth (was 5m3 Drone Bay Capacity per level)
Caldari Frigate Bonus: 4% bonus to all shield resistances
Role Bonus: 50% bonus to Rocket and Light Missile velocity
Edit: 5 medium drones would also not screw up the drone assist mechanics as some people have mentioned
oversized is terrible. the dps you get is appropriate for a brawling cruiser, but you end up with battleship 'application', in drone terms. the actual solution is just bigger damage bonuses on regular drones.
all these medium ships with 75, 100 or 125 bandwidth should just get, say, 15%, 20% and 25% damage per level on 5 mediums. |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
520
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 22:39:00 -
[30] - Quote
Phoenix Jones wrote:Worms fine with the new drone changes. Actually good with how it will fly (why have 5 weak drones when you can have two mega drones).
I don't quite get the fixation with having to have 5 drones when these superior drones will out damage, out tank, and outperform the old 5.
8 effective drones in the form of 2 drones won't outdamage 8 effective drones in the form of 5 drones. they will probably get webbed and kited though, which should be interesting. |
|
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
520
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 22:44:00 -
[31] - Quote
Bertrand Butler wrote:RF Warriors
why would you do that |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
520
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 22:47:00 -
[32] - Quote
Mike Voidstar wrote:TrouserDeagle wrote:Phoenix Jones wrote:Worms fine with the new drone changes. Actually good with how it will fly (why have 5 weak drones when you can have two mega drones).
I don't quite get the fixation with having to have 5 drones when these superior drones will out damage, out tank, and outperform the old 5.
8 effective drones in the form of 2 drones won't outdamage 8 effective drones in the form of 5 drones. they will probably get webbed and kited though, which should be interesting. Eventually drones themselves will get a real balance pass. God knows they have needed it for years, more with recent AI changes, drones on every hull and new drone focused ships being introduced. If they wind up reducing drone numbers this way they should probably look at making drones actually immune or at least highly resistant to ewar. Its one of their few advantages and drones pay a very steep price for their power in the form of destructibility.
it's never going to happen. CCP see that people are using lots of sentries for blobbing, and take it to mean that combat drones are fine. |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
523
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 00:28:00 -
[33] - Quote
Silivar Karkun wrote:WORM
Gallente Frigate Bonus: 10% drone damage and hitpoints
Caldari Frigate Bonus: 4% bonus to all shield resistances
Role Bonus: 50% to rocket and light missile max velocity
drone bandwidth/drone bay: 50/50
basically a small brother for the gila, (as it should have been).......
absolutely awful |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
524
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 00:53:00 -
[34] - Quote
Kapytul Gaynez wrote:Seems like the people arguing for the "5 drone vanilla Worm" don't really explain why besides just repeating "That's how it is supposed to be!" ad naseum. Any chance one of them comes up with an actual reason besides "Cuz..."?
because if my dps is in 2 drones, what happens if someone webs one and stops it getting within 8km? also, what of tracking disruptors vs drones?
and if this is the way it needs to be to make combat drone ships good, why is this a guristas-only thing? |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
524
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 01:00:00 -
[35] - Quote
Kapytul Gaynez wrote:TrouserDeagle wrote:Kapytul Gaynez wrote:Seems like the people arguing for the "5 drone vanilla Worm" don't really explain why besides just repeating "That's how it is supposed to be!" ad naseum. Any chance one of them comes up with an actual reason besides "Cuz..."? because if my dps is in 2 drones, what happens if someone webs one and stops it getting within 8km? also, what of tracking disruptors vs drones? and if this is the way it needs to be to make combat drone ships good, why is this a guristas-only thing? So ewar being a workable counter to drones is bad? Seems to me(I may be wrong) that having your opponent use his ewar on your drones instead of you is a good thing. TDing ships will effect part of your DPS but your missiles will still hit them and the other drone will too.
of course it's bad. drones are supposed to be pretty much ewar-proof. that, and iffy damage at whatever range you like, is supposed to be the reason you use drones. TDs are ridiculously powerful already. |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
525
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 01:08:00 -
[36] - Quote
Kapytul Gaynez wrote:TrouserDeagle wrote:of course it's bad. drones are supposed to be pretty much ewar-proof. Drones are pretty much EWAR proof, that doesn't mean they are supposed to be. I don't believe I have ever seen a Dev say that they want drones to be immune to EWAR.
that would make no sense. combat drones need love, not to be made less interesting and worse. |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
525
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 01:10:00 -
[37] - Quote
lol @ shield tristan, ishkur and astero |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
526
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 14:00:00 -
[38] - Quote
implying it's ever possible to fit beams |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
527
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 14:22:00 -
[39] - Quote
Bertrand Butler wrote:Medalyn Isis wrote:
First of all, thank you for your amusing post. At the same time as telling us all to learn to read, you display that you also do not understand how to read yourself, (I think you mean Succubus not Cruor), and also in the same post you display you cannot complete basic mathematic sums as you incorrectly calculated the new damage bonus by simply adding the two existing bonuses together, (it doesn't work like that). Thank you again for your amusing post.
Ok, let me show you the power of 2nd grade primary school math. 1. Starting damage 100% + 5% damage bonus per level at lvlV gives a 25% damage bonus 100+25=125% damage + 100% damage bonus 125+100= 225% damage2. Starting damage 100% + 125% damage bonus 100+125= 225% damageGo back to school. now. Damage bonuses are both applied ON THE BASE DAMAGE, you don't up the damage via the first bonus and THEN apply the second one.
lol |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
535
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 17:39:00 -
[40] - Quote
Aglais wrote:Dav Varan wrote: Really wouldn't wants to fly a multi million isk frig that has such terrible mobility and will get kited to death by a couple of scrub condors.
How about making the worm a fast drone kiter rather than a slow drone brawler. 5 drones is also more fun than 2.
A "couple of Scrub Condors" are going to get eviscerated by these drones. The Worm has near AF levels of tank, and it's drones are going to be ridiculously powerful and survivable. Furthermore- the Worm as a shield tanking missile/drone platform, that operates distinctly at close range, fills a role that does not currently exist in the game. Two or three of these will not be easily killed if their pilots know what they're doing. Not only that, but it's velocity is increasing, it's still really light... It's not going to be nearly as bad as you think. Also what's with all the "the fun of the worm comes from being able to launch and micromanage five drones" people?
drones cannot kill kiting ships |
|
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
536
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 18:01:00 -
[41] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Hi guys sorry for the space between posts, I wasn't in the office today, and I'm still not There's two things I can say, one is that we are going to change the Succubus role bonus damage from 125% to 150% to keep the damage potential the same as before. Thanks someone in the thread for pointing that out. Second, I'll try to put together a longer post tomorrow addressing the conversations around the missile bonus on the Worm and the web bonus on the Cruor. For now I have to leave you with just this though =/ Thanks
please consider dropping the web thing from the bloodraider ships, bringing them down to minimum lows, and giving them resist bonuses and more lows. they do too much atm. |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
555
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 17:42:00 -
[42] - Quote
rise you promised |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
555
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 18:45:00 -
[43] - Quote
Syrias Bizniz wrote:Cruor is going to be a powerful ship with a huge range of forgiveness when you fck it up. You just need to figure out the medslots, that's it. A Rail DD might hurt it, a Succubus will be a good fight, and everything else will need links to dictate range and/or disengage. Or has to be an EAF.
rail DD, try rail incursus lol |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
555
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 18:50:00 -
[44] - Quote
Syrias Bizniz wrote:TrouserDeagle wrote:Syrias Bizniz wrote:Cruor is going to be a powerful ship with a huge range of forgiveness when you fck it up. You just need to figure out the medslots, that's it. A Rail DD might hurt it, a Succubus will be a good fight, and everything else will need links to dictate range and/or disengage. Or has to be an EAF. rail DD, try rail incursus lol ... Not sure what you're trying to say, but it's either: - you think a Rail Incursus will eat the new Cruor or - you think a Rail DD is bad.
the first one |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
559
|
Posted - 2014.02.28 18:25:00 -
[45] - Quote
Noxisia Arkana wrote:Looks like a good time. I actually like that the cruor has some bonuses that don't synergize well with only one playstyle. Forces you to comprimise to get the most you can out of the ship or underutilize one of the bonuses.
it's really bad. like the sentinel or dragoon, you get a silly 1v1 brawler that can kill/escape from any lone frigate (not that anyone will engage), but because of the 3 lowslot thing, that's actually all you can do with it. in any kind of small gang thing, you'll be instantly killed because everyone knows you're in a dangerous ship that's unable to fit any kind of tank. either that, or you're planning to make some sort of fat hyena out of it. that's awful as well, and really not what it should be doing.
I already posted it, but they should drop the web bonus and a mid for a lowslot and a resist or armour hp bonus. a 2 midslot brawling frigate does work well enough if it caps everything out. lasers and cap warfare is enough of a thing for these ships imo, they don't need the web thing as well. |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
559
|
Posted - 2014.02.28 18:37:00 -
[46] - Quote
Pertuabo Enkidgan wrote: I don't agree on Sansha ships having underpowered capacitors, there is more than ASB's too, Rise.
I hear medium shield extenders are really good, and don't use cap. |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
559
|
Posted - 2014.02.28 19:12:00 -
[47] - Quote
Lloyd Roses wrote:Medalyn Isis wrote:[quote=Caera Ashlocke]This is a problem, the afterburner bonus does not sit well at all on a shield heavy ship. Beside the fact that large signature and speed tanking don't synergise at all, now this bonus makes it pretty much imperative that we will have to drop another highly valuable mid slot to fit an afterburner or otherwise the bonus will be useless. It limits options completely which is never a good design in a game which is meant to be a sandbox.] If you're in a frigate with THAT sort of AB-speed, you don't really bother with the additional 10m sig you get by buffershieldtanking it. Moreover: 3/4/3 is all but a dedicated shieldlayout. The most common succubus might rather be a webscramkiter with an AAR and a TD, potentially even dualrepped with cap booster. They also don't need to drop a mid for an AB, that's nonsense. One of your mids will ALWAYS be a propmod on any frigatefit, it just means that fitting an AB makes so much more sense compared ot fitting an mwd. Lastly, a single MSE is plenty of tank, with the current slot/bonuslayout, there is nothing blocking you from fitting it like a dp-dram.
dual prop is stupid |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
559
|
Posted - 2014.02.28 19:44:00 -
[48] - Quote
Medalyn Isis wrote:Lloyd Roses wrote:Medalyn Isis wrote:[quote=Caera Ashlocke]This is a problem, the afterburner bonus does not sit well at all on a shield heavy ship. Beside the fact that large signature and speed tanking don't synergise at all, now this bonus makes it pretty much imperative that we will have to drop another highly valuable mid slot to fit an afterburner or otherwise the bonus will be useless. It limits options completely which is never a good design in a game which is meant to be a sandbox.] If you're in a frigate with THAT sort of AB-speed, you don't really bother with the additional 10m sig you get by buffershieldtanking it. Moreover: 3/4/3 is all but a dedicated shieldlayout. The most common succubus might rather be a webscramkiter with an AAR and a TD, potentially even dualrepped with cap booster. They also don't need to drop a mid for an AB, that's nonsense. One of your mids will ALWAYS be a propmod on any frigatefit, it just means that fitting an AB makes so much more sense compared ot fitting an mwd. Lastly, a single MSE is plenty of tank, with the current slot/bonuslayout, there is nothing blocking you from fitting it like a dp-dram. Your are thinking simply of the frigate, I am thinking ahead in terms of what is to come for the Phantasm and Nightmare. The frigate is alright, and an afterburner bonus makes some sense, obviously you will always have a prop mod on a frigate anyway so there is no issue using a mid slot for it. But for the Phantasm and Nightmare, then the problems I mentioned above will become apparent. I expect more people will have complaints when we see the Cruiser's and then finally the Battleships if these bonuses are left.
the frigate isn't alright, it's stupid. |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
559
|
Posted - 2014.02.28 20:35:00 -
[49] - Quote
Justin Cody wrote:Medalyn Isis wrote:Caera Ashlocke wrote:The reason for this is that the mare is a sniper platform. It is great in missions - slowboating with a gank tank, but if one had to drop a mid mod for an ab, it would sit with tanking issues. This is a problem, the afterburner bonus does not sit well at all on a shield heavy ship. Beside the fact that large signature and speed tanking don't synergise at all, now this bonus makes it pretty much imperative that we will have to drop another highly valuable mid slot to fit an afterburner or otherwise the bonus will be useless. It limits options completely which is never a good design in a game which is meant to be a sandbox. Let me quote Onslaughter as he sums up how I see Sansha ships perfectly. Onslaughtor wrote:Sansha ships are the vessels of a hard hitting sovereign nation, they are made to crush other empire fleets under boot, not to do hit and runs or to minimize damage. The main way I see to get Sansha ships being used is to make them what they are meant to be: main fleet combat ships. Right, so the nighmare should have dps approaching that of a Vindicator (but with only 4 turrets though I could see going up to 5 now). Additionally it should have a smaller signature than all of the other faction battleships by a significant margin..enough that adding two shield extenders makes its signature equal to what it is now. It speed as a base number should be only under the machariel by a moderate margin (50m/sec or so deficit) and the tracking bonus will help to operate while burning in its evil angelic orbits at the very edge of Scorch optimal. So to extrapolate this in reverse to the Phantasm...it needs to perform above 1500m/sec(2,200 preferably) with a t2 10mn ab with a sig of about 70. Oh and be cap stable k thx. The succubus with a 1mn should be able to hit 3K+ with the afterburner and have enough agility to maintain a good orbit while doing so. It should have its dps multiplier set to 200% not 150. The status quo is unacceptable. Pirate ships in 1v1's should be fearsome machines..and in terms of raw power out perform T2 equivalents.
it's not like shield buffer tanking gives you a worse speed:sig than armour buffer. what is up with everyone? |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
560
|
Posted - 2014.03.02 00:02:00 -
[50] - Quote
Jon Joringer wrote:Bienator II wrote:Nos range is half scram range. Which means that you will have to be point black to the target. Not trying to say a ship should be designed with pimp mods in mind, but there are some fairly cheap, nice nos that reach to the edge of scram range. So it could work with some investment in the nos. Seems pretty similar to how I almost never see a DD fit without a faction web at least.
total waste on a proper DD. only matters on link-abuse scrub rail DDs. |
|
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
561
|
Posted - 2014.03.03 15:09:00 -
[51] - Quote
so when is this thread being updated with a 4 lowslot webless tanky cruor and everything? |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
561
|
Posted - 2014.03.03 16:19:00 -
[52] - Quote
Naomi Anthar wrote:
If you drop web, bhaal will be just geddon with paint scheme and effectivness on neuts instead of range.
and full laser dps and potentially a tank bonus, instead of neither of those things |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
561
|
Posted - 2014.03.03 16:31:00 -
[53] - Quote
Naomi Anthar wrote:TrouserDeagle wrote:Naomi Anthar wrote:
If you drop web, bhaal will be just geddon with paint scheme and effectivness on neuts instead of range.
and full laser dps and potentially a tank bonus, instead of neither of those things You want cruors to die in flames in fights against condors ? (with long web it can "maybe" catch it if mwd fit) You want cruor to die against web/td slasher/firetail ? Because you won't be able to neut/nos it at scram range? Even now cruor can kill slasher, after such changes it will die to anything faster at scram range. (that is many ships) And if dedicated brawling ship cannot brawl , what is use for it ? I call scram kiting a some type of brawling since it is in scram/web range. No ship will engage cruor in face to face brawl , and those that will engage it - will be able to dictate range outside of magical 6300 range. You are just trying to make cruor , punisher with bonused neuts. Not buying it. Because punisher is not that good ship in first place. But i do agree that BR could use some tankyness - and i did suggest moving one utility high to low on cruor / ashimmu (gonna hurt neuting but no point of neuting if you cannot survive i agree)
punisher is trash because no range control. if you neut the **** out of everything, you have range control. it works. |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
561
|
Posted - 2014.03.03 16:36:00 -
[54] - Quote
Buckethead bot wrote:TrouserDeagle wrote:Naomi Anthar wrote:TrouserDeagle wrote:Naomi Anthar wrote:
If you drop web, bhaal will be just geddon with paint scheme and effectivness on neuts instead of range.
and full laser dps and potentially a tank bonus, instead of neither of those things You want cruors to die in flames in fights against condors ? (with long web it can "maybe" catch it if mwd fit) You want cruor to die against web/td slasher/firetail ? Because you won't be able to neut/nos it at scram range? Even now cruor can kill slasher, after such changes it will die to anything faster at scram range. (that is many ships) And if dedicated brawling ship cannot brawl , what is use for it ? I call scram kiting a some type of brawling since it is in scram/web range. No ship will engage cruor in face to face brawl , and those that will engage it - will be able to dictate range outside of magical 6300 range. You are just trying to make cruor , punisher with bonused neuts. Not buying it. Because punisher is not that good ship in first place. But i do agree that BR could use some tankyness - and i did suggest moving one utility high to low on cruor / ashimmu (gonna hurt neuting but no point of neuting if you cannot survive i agree) punisher is trash because no range control. if you neut the **** out of everything, you have range control. it works. how the **** you wana neutanything with 60% web and 6km neut in a slow as frig ?
make it go fast
|
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
561
|
Posted - 2014.03.03 16:41:00 -
[55] - Quote
Buckethead bot wrote:i dont hink that they will make it go at any reasonable speed, since we have super fast drams and daredevils atm, + sucubus soon
it's minmatar, it's gotta go fast. also make deadspace neuts so tryhards can get more range. |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
561
|
Posted - 2014.03.03 17:19:00 -
[56] - Quote
Naomi Anthar wrote:TrouserDeagle wrote:Buckethead bot wrote:i dont hink that they will make it go at any reasonable speed, since we have super fast drams and daredevils atm, + sucubus soon it's minmatar, it's gotta go fast. also make deadspace neuts so tryhards can get more range. What about them "non tryhards" gonna do with webless slow frig with 6300 neut ? Die to 7kk slasher ? I still pay stupid money for cruor. I expect mindblowing performance not ****** disapointment. I don't want to repeat myself again and again, but point out where your version of cruor gonna outshine dragoon. I don't want to be toxic etc. I try to have civilized conversation out there. But it's starting to be pretty sad pretty fast. Cruors going for 60-70kk , now even for more. And they would be just tier 0,5 dragoons. As it is now - succubus gonna be hella unique and worthy high price tag. Daredevil aswell as always. Worm no doubt also. That only leaves cruor and dramiel in questionable situation. Let's be honest there is no need to nerf cruor even more TrouserDeagle. And that is what you are suggesting. I want to use it for solo pvp. I got cruors ready to roll out. But they will be sold if it would end up with 2 mids as you suggest. I think that web strenght bonus is absolutely op. But if Devs decided that it will stay ingame, then why daredevil must keep it and cruor cannot. I dare to say that cruor needs web strenght more than daredevil. BR ships , especially small ones like cruor need to able to control range in order to do anything - be it deal damage with lasers (tracking) or neut (short range on small ones). Raildevils would be still ok with web range ( i dare to say more than ok if you dont use faction stuff + links), blaster devils would suffer a bit , but still cool bonus since you can catch mwd / longpoint stuff.
load scorch you scrub, it's basically all lasers ever do. a better question is what are you going to do with a 3 lowslot cruor, other than die over and over again
and yeah, rail DD is grossly overpowered and should really be getting nerfed. |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
561
|
Posted - 2014.03.03 17:59:00 -
[57] - Quote
<3 graveller
and yeah, you'll die to a scram kiting tracking disruptor frigate, but you end up with a much more usable ship most of the time. the currently proposed cruor will die even harder to these tracking disruptor scram kite frigates, because it has no tank (alternatively get some deadspace nos on there and warp out). |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
561
|
Posted - 2014.03.03 21:48:00 -
[58] - Quote
Flyinghotpocket wrote:please for the love of all that is good and holy remove that drone bay on the cruor and give it a damn 4th mid slot.
no neut range bonus to back up the web range bonus now means that the web is nearly useless on the cruor now. but you will still want to fit it because gotta use that bonus ya no?
so again here we go with ships that dont have points. cruor mids as follows, AB/injector/web
nobody will fit a scram to it when it will just cap itself out.
4th MID screw the crap drones
fit nos m8 |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
561
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 12:49:00 -
[59] - Quote
I'd argue that being a tankless 3 lowslot pile of poo actually does overlap with the EAFs, in that it's only good for blobbing soloers, or catching new players who don't know what the ship does.
"unify themes" this had better not mean the other serp ships will keep their ridiculous web bonuses
what happens in honourable frigate battles when someone decides to web and orbit one of the worm's drones at 500m, or tracking disrupt it? I don't like this 2 drone thing, it's dumb.
abusing links and being immune to damage and running away from everything with your silly afterburner actually is not aggressive, it's the opposite.
Gypsio III wrote:Well, the proof of the pudding is in the eating. So as long as you review these frigates a few months after introduction, things should work out in the end. But please don't do what was done with the last pirate faction rebalance, where nothing was reviewed and the Dramiel and Worm were left hilariously imbalanced for years.
I'm sure in a few months we'll be seeing dramiel +50 hull, succubus +0.01 inertia. |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
561
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 12:50:00 -
[60] - Quote
Aurora Fatalis wrote:How about building the Guristas line for tinker tanks? They seem to be used that way quite a lot, after all, so why not let the Gallente bonus be a rep drone bonus, Oneiros-style?
rep drones are terrible while armour links exist. and even after that, they'll still be a little bit bad. |
|
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
561
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 13:30:00 -
[61] - Quote
sansha ships are not heavy hitting |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
561
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 13:57:00 -
[62] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Morwennon wrote:Will they still have the slightly odd 350 calibration for rigs, or will that be bumped up to 400 as was done for the empire faction ships? For now the plan is to leave them at the awkward 350. We did have a discussion about this and I don't feel really strongly either way. 400 is nicer for consistency and cleanliness but there also isn't a need for the power boost from the extra 50.
you really should give them the extra 50. frigates in particular often cannot afford 30 CPU for a damage mod, and you just can't do damage rigs without 400.
(rigs and rig calibration costs could probably use their own expansion) |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
561
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 14:05:00 -
[63] - Quote
Medalyn Isis wrote:TrouserDeagle wrote:sansha ships are not heavy hitting Yes that is true, they aren't right now. The Phantasm is the only one which puts out respectable dps in it's ship class.
it has fewer effective turrets than both the cynabal and vigilant, and a smaller dronebay, and it cannot fit beams, and it's really slow and cannot tank and has cap problems. |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
561
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 14:06:00 -
[64] - Quote
Harvey James wrote:Quote:Most complaints about the Worm at this point seem centered around the missile bonus. As I've already said, I agree that it's a little weird to have a missile bonus on the Gallente skill, but there really isn't a good way out of this. If the drone bonus is on the Gallente skill you are essentially required to have that skill to 5 which we would rather avoid. but there is i have offered multiple good options on this split the drone damage to it or a portion .. this way training gallente skill makes sense and HP is unaffected.. or offer a drone tracking/velocity bonus which we often see on drone brawling gallente ships .. ogre's in particular need it also no mention of why it hasn't got the -1 slot that droneships usually get
a 37% tracking bonus doesn't work at all to make heavy drones good on cruisers. |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
561
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 14:13:00 -
[65] - Quote
Harvey James wrote:TrouserDeagle wrote:Harvey James wrote:Quote:Most complaints about the Worm at this point seem centered around the missile bonus. As I've already said, I agree that it's a little weird to have a missile bonus on the Gallente skill, but there really isn't a good way out of this. If the drone bonus is on the Gallente skill you are essentially required to have that skill to 5 which we would rather avoid. but there is i have offered multiple good options on this split the drone damage to it or a portion .. this way training gallente skill makes sense and HP is unaffected.. or offer a drone tracking/velocity bonus which we often see on drone brawling gallente ships .. ogre's in particular need it also no mention of why it hasn't got the -1 slot that droneships usually get a 37% tracking bonus doesn't work at all to make heavy drones good on cruisers. vexor navy issue disagrees.. also on worm i would suggest you move the missile damage bonus to role bonus... is there a reason you are not adding more role bonuses like you did with the SOE ships? also no mention of angels/serpentis in your post RISE ... DD should have drams drones and web mods need a nerf.. angels ships need sharper focus .. stronger shield emphasis .. means nerfing armour hp .. buff damage projection so they are the masters of projectiles that ISIS claims they are.. remove drones/launchers at least on the dram..
vexor navy issue has sexy space camo and I love it forever, but it should really just be using 200% bonused medium drones instead of slightly faster heavies. |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
561
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 15:01:00 -
[66] - Quote
Medalyn Isis wrote:The only way to run Sansha ships now will be active shield tank with speed or damage rigs. So no more buffer tank, and no more MWD, nothing interesting, just standard cookie cutter stuff. The nightmare is going to be a joke.
why no more buffer tank? are you having a bad understanding of signature radius? |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
561
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 15:07:00 -
[67] - Quote
Medalyn Isis wrote:TrouserDeagle wrote:Medalyn Isis wrote:The only way to run Sansha ships now will be active shield tank with speed or damage rigs. So no more buffer tank, and no more MWD, nothing interesting, just standard cookie cutter stuff. The nightmare is going to be a joke. why no more buffer tank? are you having a bad understanding of signature radius? Why would anyone fit a buffer tank along with shield rigs and watch the benefit they just got from having an afterburner bonus wiped out.
the benefit is range control. if enemy frigate turrets cannot hit you, you also will be missing. |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
561
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 15:25:00 -
[68] - Quote
Medalyn Isis wrote:TrouserDeagle wrote:Medalyn Isis wrote:TrouserDeagle wrote:Medalyn Isis wrote:The only way to run Sansha ships now will be active shield tank with speed or damage rigs. So no more buffer tank, and no more MWD, nothing interesting, just standard cookie cutter stuff. The nightmare is going to be a joke. why no more buffer tank? are you having a bad understanding of signature radius? Why would anyone fit a buffer tank along with shield rigs and watch the benefit they just got from having an afterburner bonus wiped out. the benefit is range control. if enemy frigate turrets cannot hit you, you also will be missing. So what is the point then, if you are missing and your enemy are both missing then the ships are just going to be a joke. And an afterburner even with a bonus isn't going to give any range control against the majority of opponents you face, you still need a MWD for that. These proposals have basically reduced flying Sansha ships to be like flying an expensive Minmatar ship.
range control in silly frigate brawls is serious business. this is why 2 midslot punishers are trash, and why 3 midslot rifters cannot evade damage from anything. this AB bonus just amounts, in range control terms, within web range, to meaning you sort of have an AB and two webs, when actually you have an AB and one web. except that you'll be immune to missiles, and it's even more range control when you start stacking up all the dumb stuff like deadspace ABs, links, etc. |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
561
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 15:38:00 -
[69] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote: I really think we need to see the entire Pirate lineup before we can be completely objective on these.
why |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
561
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 16:38:00 -
[70] - Quote
Bouh Revetoile wrote:I can't understand the hate on the Worm. The ship will be insanely powerful, if not OP. A new bro for the caldari lineup of insanely effective ships, trading a mid slot for raw firepower.
Really, if anyone start shooting at the Worm drones, he is insane. A Hobgobelin 2 will reach ~4kehp, which is more than a lightly tanked frigate, and he have 3 brothers in the dronebay. Of course you can use EWAR or whatever against the drones, but don't forget the Worm is still here spewing missiles.
As for the Cruor, it's a Tormentor on steroids : hp compensate for the fourth low slot, and it earn more laser dps, long range web and good old OP nosferatu. Granted nos bonus + web bonus don't complement each other very well, but even without any one of them the ship will be brutal. Remember pulse laser are the mightest weapon between 5 and 10km, and the usual strategy against them is to dive and outtrack them. Here, if you dive the nos will be your doom.
because it'll be very easy to just half the worm's damage output in a frigate 1v1. it's dumb, it should have 5 drones.
tormentor is already light on tank. I don't want a special 100 mil, low-dps version with neuts and a long range web. |
|
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
561
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 20:02:00 -
[71] - Quote
I was talking about evading the drone's damage, not killing it. |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
563
|
Posted - 2014.03.05 14:31:00 -
[72] - Quote
Bouh Revetoile wrote:Garviel Tarrant wrote:He's talking about tding it or kiting it i believe. The thing is that this strategy will be far less effective than doing it against any other ship : you will decrease not even the third of the dps and still leave about 150dps fully applyed. Focusing on a drone means the fight is not a 1v1 anymore but a 1v3. If you dedicate one of your midslot to control one drone, you basicaly free the Worm and the other drone, you forgo range and speed control and you're toasted.
it's a worm, it has missiles. it doesn't particularly care what range you're at. |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
567
|
Posted - 2014.03.06 15:29:00 -
[73] - Quote
Syrias Bizniz wrote: You're in FW, have you never seen Armor Merlins? Have you never seen Assault frigates without an MWD? It has a sig bonus towards MWD! You gotta utilize it! Same for Interceptors? Rocket-Condor? Armor-Breacher? Armor-Hookbill?
those are pretty much all a result of webs and unbonused tracking disruptors being overpowered |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
567
|
Posted - 2014.03.06 15:47:00 -
[74] - Quote
Batelle wrote:TrouserDeagle wrote:Syrias Bizniz wrote: You're in FW, have you never seen Armor Merlins? Have you never seen Assault frigates without an MWD? It has a sig bonus towards MWD! You gotta utilize it! Same for Interceptors? Rocket-Condor? Armor-Breacher? Armor-Hookbill?
those are pretty much all a result of webs and unbonused tracking disruptors being overpowered people have been calling webs OP quite a bit recently. Where does this notion come from?
the fact that no frigate except an extremely fast one with a silly mwd sig bonus is anything but a joke in a proper fight, and the fact that armour tanking a 2 lowslot frigate is actually effective, just because you need to get as many mids as possible for MORE WEBS. -60% is way too much. |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
567
|
Posted - 2014.03.06 17:38:00 -
[75] - Quote
CCP have recognised that (90%) webs are broken overpowered, I think, but they just aren't willing to actually fix the game. |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
570
|
Posted - 2014.03.06 19:18:00 -
[76] - Quote
not engaging isn't really a good counter |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
571
|
Posted - 2014.03.06 19:48:00 -
[77] - Quote
Bertrand Butler wrote:TrouserDeagle wrote:not engaging isn't really a good counter not engaging isn't really the only counter. Its not like Vindicators are invincible or sth..
the overpoweredness of ecm and damps doesn't mean 90% webs aren't silly |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
571
|
Posted - 2014.03.06 19:56:00 -
[78] - Quote
Bertrand Butler wrote:What I am trying to say is that they are silly, but totally viable if kept on a couple of pirate hulls. You still got a shitload of options for dealing with them, and they do not posses the numbers to alter the meta.
scissors can be way overpowered while still losing to rock |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
572
|
Posted - 2014.03.06 20:26:00 -
[79] - Quote
Mike Voidstar wrote:TrouserDeagle wrote:not engaging isn't really a good counter Odd. Thats the only counter allowed to most PvE boats. Having it on the one line of ships breaks nothing and gives those ships a known element of danger.
do you know what a dreadnought is |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
584
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 15:39:00 -
[80] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Hello
Fozzie and I spent some time looking at the Cruor today because of your concerns and we decided that we still want to use this as a starting point. Some sisi testing would be really valuable but we still can't make that happen just yet. If we find that things don't go well on sisi or if usage doesn't get a significant bump after TQ release we will probably improve the damage output. For now, all the changes we tried just look too strong to use as a first version.
Hopefully we will have posts on the other pirate classes coming very soon, we were waiting on a dev blog which will have an impact on pirate balance which should be coming out very soon and then we can show you the rest of the ships.
o/
please learn to play, cruor requires 4 lowslots. untanked neuting ships with overpowered webs are really not a good idea. for solo they're extremely powerful and get no fights, and in anything bigger than solo, they're killed instantly. what you're making here is a ship that's not very useful for anything. |
|
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
689
|
Posted - 2014.05.17 05:54:00 -
[81] - Quote
so I tried to fit a dramiel, and the CPU was horrible, but it had loads of spare powergrid. ccp plz fix. |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
690
|
Posted - 2014.05.17 15:30:00 -
[82] - Quote
oh boy look at all these shitfits |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
690
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 08:39:00 -
[83] - Quote
Templar Dane wrote:TrouserDeagle wrote:oh boy look at all these shitfits On par with your cats and comets with no points.
keep on blobbing bro |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
700
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 14:02:00 -
[84] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Hey guys
Getting caught up on some feedback here finally and working on the Cruor a bit as a result.
What I'd really like to do is get the Cruor into a place where it can keep the Blood bonus layout and still be powerful enough to see battle. The request that's been made several times for an extra low makes a lot of sense but I really didn't think it could afford to give up a high (1 turret? only 1 utility high?) or a mid (web bonus) so I was a bit stuck and then I realized there's no reason it can't have 11 slots, so that's what I'm going to do.
We're also going to up the base PG from 50 to 57 and the base CPU from 140 to 150. Finally, to pay a little back for these improvements we're taking one drone away (from 10m3 to 5m3).
Hopefully all in all this gives enough flexibility in fitting to let you take advantage of the slightly divergent bonuses and that lets us keep the faction line in tact and leave the Cruor as a very unique ship in the frigate class rather than forcing it to compete directly with the Sentinel.
Let me know what you think.
I think just drop the webbing thing and drop the midslots down to 2, give it tank bonus and more lows. that makes a much more generally usable ship. 3 lows and no tank bonus is extremely limiting. add the ridiculously powerful web bonus, and you're primary forever in all frig gangs ever. less 'glass cannon', more versatile. I think lasers and neuts/nos is enough flavour for one line of ships, they don't need the web thing as well. |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
700
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 15:45:00 -
[85] - Quote
Altrue wrote:CCP Rise wrote: We're also going to up the base PG from 50 to 57 and the base CPU from 140 to 150. Finally, to pay a little back for these improvements we're taking one drone away (from 10m3 to 5m3).
Its not entierly related, but I feel like there are two ways of considering drones for the game balance team.
- On one side, ships with drone bays have a precisely crafted drone bay with precise volumes (see my quote above to illustrate how the drone bay was 10m3 - an odd number already- to 5m3 -even odder-). So on this side things looks cool and balanced. Yes its odd to see a ship with less than five drones, but on the other hand this one or two extra drone make a noticeable impact.
- On the other side, you have ships (to quote a few : Moa, Garmur, Naga... even Eagle when compared to other HACs), with ZERO drone bay. Its straight, definitive... and bad?
Would these ships be so unbalanced with, say, 10/15m3 of brandwidth? Especially when other ships in their very same class have double or triple the amount of brandwidth without even being drone boats. I'd love to see more small drone bays on ships. Especially now that the drone gameplay and the choice it implies in terms of drone race, is getting better.
Any thoughts on that?
there's also the issue that not all slots are equal. +1 midslot on a frigate is absolutely huge, while +1 utility high (assuming you don't have crazy neut bonuses) is no big deal. |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
702
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 19:25:00 -
[86] - Quote
RTSAvalanche wrote:CCP Rise wrote:Hey guys
Getting caught up on some feedback here finally and working on the Cruor a bit as a result.
What I'd really like to do is get the Cruor into a place where it can keep the Blood bonus layout and still be powerful enough to see battle. The request that's been made several times for an extra low makes a lot of sense but I really didn't think it could afford to give up a high (1 turret? only 1 utility high?) or a mid (web bonus) so I was a bit stuck and then I realized there's no reason it can't have 11 slots, so that's what I'm going to do.
We're also going to up the base PG from 50 to 57 and the base CPU from 140 to 150. Finally, to pay a little back for these improvements we're taking one drone away (from 10m3 to 5m3).
Hopefully all in all this gives enough flexibility in fitting to let you take advantage of the slightly divergent bonuses and that lets us keep the faction line in tact and leave the Cruor as a very unique ship in the frigate class rather than forcing it to compete directly with the Sentinel.
Let me know what you think. Being able to control range is the one thing that the Cruor has going for it (-90% web)... and now you plan to get rid of its best attribute!? (web range bonus = hyena... donotwant for cruor)
you also can control range by capping out your target |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
702
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 20:05:00 -
[87] - Quote
Templar Dane wrote:TrouserDeagle wrote:CCP Rise wrote:Hey guys
Getting caught up on some feedback here finally and working on the Cruor a bit as a result.
What I'd really like to do is get the Cruor into a place where it can keep the Blood bonus layout and still be powerful enough to see battle. The request that's been made several times for an extra low makes a lot of sense but I really didn't think it could afford to give up a high (1 turret? only 1 utility high?) or a mid (web bonus) so I was a bit stuck and then I realized there's no reason it can't have 11 slots, so that's what I'm going to do.
We're also going to up the base PG from 50 to 57 and the base CPU from 140 to 150. Finally, to pay a little back for these improvements we're taking one drone away (from 10m3 to 5m3).
Hopefully all in all this gives enough flexibility in fitting to let you take advantage of the slightly divergent bonuses and that lets us keep the faction line in tact and leave the Cruor as a very unique ship in the frigate class rather than forcing it to compete directly with the Sentinel.
Let me know what you think. I think just drop the webbing thing and drop the midslots down to 2, give it tank bonus and more lows. that makes a much more generally usable ship. 3 lows and no tank bonus is extremely limiting. add the ridiculously powerful web bonus, and you're primary forever in all frig gangs ever. less 'glass cannon', more versatile. I think lasers and neuts/nos is enough flavour for one line of ships, they don't need the web thing as well. Yeah, prop mod and web makes so much sense. It's not like anybody would ever want to solo in a pirate frigate.
are you being terrible again |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
702
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 20:17:00 -
[88] - Quote
Draco Knight wrote:CCP Rise wrote:Hey guys
Getting caught up on some feedback here finally and working on the Cruor a bit as a result.
What I'd really like to do is get the Cruor into a place where it can keep the Blood bonus layout and still be powerful enough to see battle. The request that's been made several times for an extra low makes a lot of sense but I really didn't think it could afford to give up a high (1 turret? only 1 utility high?) or a mid (web bonus) so I was a bit stuck and then I realized there's no reason it can't have 11 slots, so that's what I'm going to do.
We're also going to up the base PG from 50 to 57 and the base CPU from 140 to 150. Finally, to pay a little back for these improvements we're taking one drone away (from 10m3 to 5m3).
Hopefully all in all this gives enough flexibility in fitting to let you take advantage of the slightly divergent bonuses and that lets us keep the faction line in tact and leave the Cruor as a very unique ship in the frigate class rather than forcing it to compete directly with the Sentinel.
Let me know what you think. Noone but you, is forcing the cruor to compete with the sentinel. You changed how nos works(old nos) on BR ships, you also buffed nos amount. You/I want to fit nos, but it is useless, when we dont live to apply it. Giving the ship a nos range bonus only, would make us able to at least put pressure on targets cap within web and point range. The additional low and pg/cpu changes are nice, but just scrap the drone bay altogether and add nos range. I do not wish to/want to fit neuts on my cruor!!! I do that on my sentinel and as it stands even after this latest "buff", the sentinel is still waaay better in every way, since it caps out any frigate within 30km in 2 cycles and have TD for bigger targets. Cruor remains pointless. I dream of a nos range bonus too for the ashimmu.
could nerf sentinel instead |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
711
|
Posted - 2014.05.23 14:55:00 -
[89] - Quote
Garviel Tarrant wrote:Does this mean you're giving up on locking yourself into arbitrary slot numbers? Because that would be great.
Could you now go and give the punisher this? Because it effectively has one slot less than other t1 frigates.. Utility highs are worth about 1/3rd of a normal slot on a frigate.
(Just want to close though by saying I CAN FLY MY CRUOR IN AN UNIRONIC WAY NOW! =D )
You don't often get me being happy about something, well done >_>
there's also the issue of ships with double bonuses for no reason, and varying numbers of weapon hardpoints, and dronebays as well. so yeah, equal slot numbers is pretty much never a good way to balance if these other things are around. |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
711
|
Posted - 2014.05.24 11:49:00 -
[90] - Quote
W0lf Crendraven wrote:Id like to call for now that the succubus is going to be retardedly broken, both in fleet roles with a 10mn fit as well as a solo roamer with a 1mn ab.
1mn fit is trash unless fighting missiles |
|
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
711
|
Posted - 2014.05.24 12:16:00 -
[91] - Quote
W0lf Crendraven wrote:1mn is absurdly strong as a solo ship (at least in low/high), you fly over 2.3km/s with a b type ab and a poly/zors. Its tanky enough to permatank even the garmur and has the ability to gtfo vs almost everything else. You can kill by scram kiting torm style, or orbiting really close and making use of that tracking bonus, all paired with high dps (over 300 with heat) and a decent tank.
Its like the dram of old with way more dps and dps at range (scorch op) and even better gtfo ability.
I think an AB dram is better. much more flexibility. |
|
|
|