It has the same tank as a Nano Cane of course it can.

800mm for starters and they can put more Real DPS on a Nano Cane then Barrage in 425mm's and Warriors at similar ranges.
...
Overall it makes a great DPS Platform for popping Battlecruisers which are the most used class of ship currently

Yes you do have the Agility of a Cane /facepalm have you even looked at the Stats =/

The Agility is greater then a Cane, a Single Nano Cane and matches a Duel Nano Cane and does more DPS at range and Close then a Duel TE Cane Trip Gyro with Drones on ships with a BC Sized Sig.

Ummmm ? It's got an extra med slot, true, but it's also got about 50% less EHP to begin with. These are going to be snacks for regular BC's


They'll kill nanocanes (barely!) if the Tornado keeps transversal down. But these ships are absolutely terrible at killing any other BC's. That's part of their design. Even a nanocane manual piloting is going to give you a run for your money, if he's good

It has the same tank as a Nano Cane of course it can.

Ummmm ? It's got an extra med slot, true, but it's also got about 50% less EHP to begin with. These are going to be snacks for regular BC's

errr CCP said they were going to cost maybe a hair less than a tier 1 BS obv with rigs it costs 30 mill more but that's still not half the cost

-30mil on Large Rigs, I foresee an operating cost of close to 85ish Mil which is around the Hull Cost alone of a Tier 2 Hull.

But what I am really paying for is the speed and Agility to keep up with a Nano Gang and Disengage from most enemies. I just happen to be paying 50mil less then a Tier 1, 70mil Less then a Tier 2 and 120 Mil less then a Tier 3 for the privilege.

Anywhere a huge EHP Slug will do better I will use one for the extra cost. But I do have a So - So Geddon fit for 80mil real cheap to fit out if I need a Battleship at the same cost. I am very thrifty.

errr dude if we are going to be fear here lets compare the cost against tier 1 BS which the cost is only 30 mill more and you get like 80k more EHP

and the thing with the battle ships as you have said if your going to be going around with them your going to have support well if you replaced those with tier 1 BS's you could do more damage because you could get your gang to web them and get over there with a MWD and do more damage because you dont have 100k EHP+ so you dont have to lose DPS by traveling fast you dont have to lose dps by staying out at 30+k you can sit there and put 700+ actual damage into them rather than 400dps - 600dps

I'm tired of this again im going to bed

Hardly neich with some fits.
[Oracle, New Setup 2]
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Centii C-Type Adaptive Nano Plating
Damage Control II

Warp Disruptor II
X5 Prototype I Engine Enervator
10MN MicroWarpdrive II

Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L

Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I

still has an 8.1sec slign time and 815dps at normal engagement ranges, 649dps scorch range. W/ same EHP as a vigilant (180m sig / 1080m sig).

Hardly Neich

actually now i have actually looked at that one seems a hell of a lot more useful than the tornado i made a judgment off the naga and tornado but with the Optimal being at range its perfect you can hit for max damage out at 30 k + but the only thing with amarr is cap how long does that thing last for with the MWD and guns going? i would say you need to fit a cap booster to that kinda standard for amarr and PVP because if you run out of cap you can shoot and from 30k a curse can easily f your day

yeah i would scrap the web and go for a cap booster your not going to be getting in close anyways so why not put in the cap booster

You can keep the tank with one Small Cap Booster II running Navy 400 Charges and have room for a Sebo for fast lock. She is Stable with the Micro and the 500m3 Cargohold will keep Cap in Supply. With the MWD off you can keep the guns running under Neuts pretty well but a Curse will still suck you dry.

[Oracle, DPS Support Platform]
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Damage Control II

Small Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 400
Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution
Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive

Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L

Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I

Overall I am pretty excited about these things. Good Morning BTW.

It does not have 50% less HP.

Devils advocate speaking here yeah but the mach does well enough against BC's so and apart from less tank and a less speed and dps but lower sig errr yeah there are a lot of differences but you can draw a parallel

So yes, it begins with 50% (less!) of the EHP of a cane. Yes it's got one med slot, but to say it's got the same tank as a nanocane is so idiotic I have trouble figuring out how that even got said let alone defended?

so idiotic I have trouble figuring out how that even got said let alone defended?

Well I have a fit up there that has the same amount of tank as the Standard Nano Cane acting as Fire Support for a Gang so I would guess It is because you can get it to have the same amount of EHP as a Standard Nano Cane by using all Mids 4 slots for Tank. The Tornado can get 48000 EHP in the DPS Support Role.

But if you want to remove Tackle from the Nano Cane and use 3 mids for tank it will go from equal to 16 % more.

To say it has 50% less HP because of the Base stats is:

The problem i can see is when you try and fit its short on CPU for

Without the Nano you are faster then a 2x Nano Cane with the same Agility. So you can through a CPU Enhancer in if your Skills are not near maxed.

Ok i have had a day to recuperate so now i can come back and further explain why the tier 3 BC's and the specialization is useless because other ships can fill there roles better

and the thing with the battle ships as you have said if your going to be going around with them your going to have support well if you replaced those with tier 1 BS's you could do more damage because you could get your gang to web them and get over there with a MWD and do more damage because you dont have 100k EHP+ so you dont have to lose DPS by traveling fast you dont have to lose dps by staying out at 30+k you can sit there and put 700+ actual damage into them rather than 400dps - 600dps and don't bleat numbers again i'm talking about real situational DPS not the highest you can get

Well I have a fit up there that has the same amount of tank as the Standard Nano Cane acting as Fire Support for a Gang so I would guess It is because you can get it to have the same amount of EHP as a Standard Nano Cane by using all Mids 4 slots for Tank. The Tornado can get 48000 EHP in the DPS Support Role.

Anyway, everything you said here holds true for the BCs as well. They are meant to be used with a gang, so it is a thoroughly trivial matter to get the full DPS out of them, and no, you don't need to buzz around like your hair is on fire because your gang has already taken care of that problem. Yes, even the torp Naga will do full damage against most targets, if you use it correctlyGǪ

gotta agree with whats his face, you cant just look at hit point and say ah that has a worse tank you have to look at the base resistances and if the ship has any resistance bonuses the tier 3s don't but eh you need to fit it up before saying anything dude

Yes, let's fit the Tornado for "gang support" but not fit the nano cane the same way so we can skew the numbers! That sounds completely reasonable

Now before the flaming and tolling starts, really think about it what can this ship do better than any other ship in eve can't do in other words what do they add. now I can think of three uses for the tornado at least.

1. Blobing 1 or 2 people from a distance

2. Hit and run in a fleet battle or die

3. the obvious Suicide ganking

but all of those roles can be filled if not better at least equally by other ships

1. Blobing 1 or 2 people from a distance covet Ops but not from such a distance because you have damps

2. Hit and run in a fleet battle or die Covert Ops with bombs

3. Suicide ganking Tier one battleships considering the carebaers have been pacified with the reassurance that they will cost as much as those.

So what do they add? nothing as far as i can see because there speciality can be filled if not better, equally be other ships that are less specialized which means there specialty makes them worse if not = to other ships in eve

Constructive criticism only pleas! or agreement I can abide agreement. :P

Im going to edit this considering people keep on saying the same thing, if you dont want to get near insta poped in a BC gang for support or what ever your going to have to be out at range which even then it doesn't assure you of safety considering battleships can reach even further and being out at range means that you have to reduce your dps to around 350 to 450 which the SB with all skills to 5 can do 550 with other modules like cloak etc or 640 straight damage.

ALSO because some people seem to not know anything about SB's if your in an SB and you die you ****** up or someone ****** up or your ******* unlucky, because those things with a good pilot are near impossible to kill.

And yes if what i heard about the Naga is ture and it actually has a semi decent tank Yes it could tank a POS in a C1 but how many people actually want to take a C1 those things are like common as hell and near empty to boot so why, yes i suppose you could get the into C3s etc with large numbers so yeah they could be useful there but really is there only saving grease the fact that they can take POS's down in WH space... wow there a niche if i had ever heard it.

*head in hand* *sighs* now just dont comment if you have never been in an SB gang and not lost all of your ships because im not going to explain how to use an SB and how hard they are to kill with a good pilot. So just believe me on the fact that there hard to kill if the pilot knows what they are doing. its not about tank with the SB just as its not about the tank with the falcon

[quote=Etheoma]

You have to fly each one differently or as a combined arms team. Don't be afraid to mix em with recons and some logistics.

[
Recons.... and large turrets are always a good mix.

Since your own speed can counter your own dps even against battleships, it's also a thoroughly trivial matter for the enemy to apply full DPS to you, too (if you're not 'buzzing around'). And they don't need to tackle you for that.