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12 months for a remap little long?

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Rhivre TarNec Invisible Exchequer 730	Posted - 2014.03.04 13:20:00 - [31] - Quote The amount of difference it makes to training is that great that I did not notice I was mapped full charisma for 2 years, while training industry and some ships. But then, I never notice whether or not I have implants. I am probably just a terrible player and should biomass immediately :/ Fluffy Bunny Pic!
Tysun Kane Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 19	Posted - 2014.03.04 13:33:00 - [32] - Quote I believe the time between remaps is all about balancing which CCP does very well compared to tiger MMOs. If we we're able to change our maps more often it would defeat the purpose of remapping to begin with. I believe that's why there are augmentations and plugins to further help with what ever you want to train for or if you want to change up your training or purpose if your pilot at any givin time.
seth Hendar I love you miners 481	Posted - 2014.03.04 13:51:00 - [33] - Quote i, for one, think it would be a good idea. i agree that eve, being a game where specialization counts, a 12month based skill plan and remap make sense. however, for the past 2 years, CCP is shaking the game pretty hard, sometime defeating the whole 12 month plan you put together, because they made activity X not worth it anymore, or ship Y not able to fullfill your goal. so as long as things keep changing, a shorter time between remaps would make sense, because getting screwed 4 month in your skill plan because CCP decided to change feature / ship / skills / whatever, is frustrating because there is NOTHING you can do about it. and you can't adapt, since you remapped for 12 month, meaning you are tied to either skill something you will not use, or skill something you will use given the new parameters, but at a slow pace.
masternerdguy State Protectorate Caldari State 1434	Posted - 2014.03.04 13:54:00 - [34] - Quote Remove remaps, re-introduce learning skills (and make EVERYONE train them again). Things are only impossible until they are not.
Salvos Rhoska Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 131	Posted - 2014.03.04 13:55:00 - [35] - Quote An indirect alternative would be implementing an AUR purchasable Re-map. Expensive, but if someone really wants to squeeze a few days off a long train or finds themselves bottlenecked for a year if/when they change their career plans, I would be ok with this.
Soldarius Deadman W0nderland Test Alliance Please Ignore 570	Posted - 2014.03.04 13:58:00 - [36] - Quote I would support paying PLEX for additional remaps. Free Ripley Weaver!
Qweasdy Justified Chaos 89	Posted - 2014.03.04 14:00:00 - [37] - Quote Salvos Rhoska wrote: An indirect alternative would be implementing an AUR purchasable Re-map. Expensive, but if someone really wants to squeeze a few days off a long train or finds themselves bottlenecked for a year if/when they change their career plans, I would be ok with this. I personally wouldn't mind this... but... gamers... we can be an irrational bunch when it comes to stuff you can pay for... This is a terrible thread. As such, it's locked. - CCP Falcon
Noxisia Arkana Deadspace Knights 218	Posted - 2014.03.04 14:02:00 - [38] - Quote It feels infinitely long when you're starting, and matters significantly less after a couple years.
Praetor Meles Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic 171	Posted - 2014.03.04 14:18:00 - [39] - Quote Soldarius wrote: I would support paying PLEX for additional remaps. i.e. pay to win [insert random rubbish that irritates you personally] is further evidence that Eve is dying/thriving* * delete as required to make your point
Salvos Rhoska Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 131	Posted - 2014.03.04 14:24:00 - [40] - Quote Praetor Meles wrote: Soldarius wrote: I would support paying PLEX for additional remaps. i.e. pay to win Except there is no real "win" in it. You can't buy Skills, which is what the mind likes to think this is, owing to being used to conventional P2W systems and how skills are gained in other games. All it does is shave a few days off a long train. That person would get that skill anyways, just a few days later. If they choose to spend AUR on buying a remap, that increases their expense on the character, and eats into their profit even if they are deliberately farming/biomassing toons for sale on Bazaar.
Praetor Meles Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic 171	Posted - 2014.03.04 14:35:00 - [41] - Quote Salvos Rhoska wrote: You can't buy Skills... All it does is shave a few days off a long train... I see where you are coming from, and from a certain perspective it does make sense. On the face of it, you pay real life money to end up with more skill points than somebody who does not pay real life money over the same time frame. Now...in total...that is not actually the case. Provided you remap once in a year to something and stick to it, you'll accrue SP at the same rate as somebody who is remapping every week (and similarly sticking to skills that fit that remap). However, multiple remaps would allow somebody to focus on a narrower set of skills at will without penalty - effectively allowing somebody to aggressively train ships/modules for competitve advantage against somebody who was not able to remap frequently. Over the long run, it would arguably not provide a benefit. Over the short run, it would let (some wealthy) people take advantage of specific situations using real world cash - something that would not be open to others? [insert random rubbish that irritates you personally] is further evidence that Eve is dying/thriving* * delete as required to make your point
Salvos Rhoska Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 131	Posted - 2014.03.04 14:40:00 - [42] - Quote Praetor Meles wrote: Over the long run, it would arguably not provide a benefit. Over the short run, it would let (some wealthy) people take advantage of specific situations using real world cash - something that would not be open to others? ISK into PLEX into AUR into Re-Map.
Serene Repose Saanen Freight Service 970	Posted - 2014.03.04 15:49:00 - [43] - Quote Not to challenge Tippia's high-flown, irrefutable expert tone.....a year is ridiculous. Six months is a tad more REASONABLE. Remapping isn't for correcting mistakes. It IS useful for attacking particular areas of study for a time...but to be hamstrung for so long when the schoolin's done? Bleah. A year is totally arbitrary, so my arbitrary six months is just as valid. I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility toward every form of tyranny over the mind of man.-á
masternerdguy State Protectorate Caldari State 1440	Posted - 2014.03.04 15:51:00 - [44] - Quote Serene Repose wrote: Not to challenge Tippia's high-flown, irrefutable expert tone.....a year is ridiculous. Six months is a tad more REASONABLE. Remapping isn't for correcting mistakes. It IS useful for attacking particular areas of study for a time...but to be hamstrung for so long when the schoolin's done? Bleah. A year is totally arbitrary, so my arbitrary six months is just as valid. You are literally complaining that the rate at which you gain SP is slightly lower. Notice I said "the rate at which you gain" indicating you are not losing SP. And if it bothers you that much, don't remap. Things are only impossible until they are not.
Marsha Mallow 113	Posted - 2014.03.04 15:54:00 - [45] - Quote Twelve months does seem a bit arbitrary given we have an expansion every six months. Before anyone starts frothing at the mouth I have plenty of 120m+ sp characters which still have 3 bonus remaps. I don't really agree on allowing remaps for ISK or Aurum, it would just allow certain people to effectively pay for extra SP/perceived advancement. Perhaps the most useful thing would be to increase remaps specifically for newer characters - even the 2 bonus remaps you get now can be used up early on just getting core skills done. Random example, new characters could have 2 bonus remaps every 6 months for the first 18 or 24, then decrease the number or frequency. It will make new accounts train faster, but that imbalance has been there since new bloodlines with improved base attributes were added (Achura ftw). Having said that additional remaps could be awarded for other things so older players don't entirely miss out, like the loyalty scheme that hasn't materialised. Tbh I think CCP planned on selling remaps for Aurum before Incarna, and like Nex store additions, it's just been shelved for the time being. Although there was one hilarious portion of the CSM meetings (last summer maybe?) where they suggested SP for Aurum or ISK and the CSM had to very patiently explain that the playerbase would go berserk. Maybe that section was added for a laugh, but the bemused dev response seemed plausible. -
Serene Repose Saanen Freight Service 970	Posted - 2014.03.04 15:57:00 - [46] - Quote masternerdguy wrote: Serene Repose wrote: Not to challenge Tippia's high-flown, irrefutable expert tone.....a year is ridiculous. Six months is a tad more REASONABLE. Remapping isn't for correcting mistakes. It IS useful for attacking particular areas of study for a time...but to be hamstrung for so long when the schoolin's done? Bleah. A year is totally arbitrary, so my arbitrary six months is just as valid. You are literally complaining that the rate at which you gain SP is slightly lower. Notice I said "the rate at which you gain" indicating you are not losing SP. And if it bothers you that much, don't remap. Umm....geez. I wouldn't want you to thoughtlessly jump to the wrong conclusions. I'm neither complaining, nor bothered. I'm commenting. If you don't like THAT, don't read it. Problem solved. I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility toward every form of tyranny over the mind of man.-á
Lord LazyGhost The Bastards The Bastards. 311	Posted - 2014.03.04 16:04:00 - [47] - Quote now this is more like the debate i was trying to get going. thank you all for joining in and lets keep this polite.
March rabbit Federal Defense Union 1301	Posted - 2014.03.04 16:11:00 - [48] - Quote Lord LazyGhost wrote: Salvos Rhoska wrote: Lord LazyGhost wrote: I would think 6 months would be more realistic. Explain the bold/highlighted part, please. Especially regarding it being "realistic". my opinion.... i think in my own opinion that 6 months would be a better time span. lot of things change in 6 months ships, mods new things added to game sites maybe new skills. ect so being able to change a little quicker to adjust to a changing game could be good. it looks reasonable to me. CCP makes releases "every 6 months" and they change stuff. Sometimes they change it A LOT. It looks like players should have way to fix their training queues accordingly. The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Herzog Wolfhammer Sigma Special Tactics Group 4385	Posted - 2014.03.04 16:24:00 - [49] - Quote Lord LazyGhost wrote: Hi guys not a whine thread. do you guys think that 12 months between remaps is a little to long. ? I would think 6 months would be more realistic. what do you think? I got like 3 or 4 saved remaps - heck I just never cared for it. Now, if we could SELL one of our saved remaps - that would be good. I'd trade one for a couple of PLEX. Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Lord LazyGhost The Bastards The Bastards. 311	Posted - 2014.03.04 16:32:00 - [50] - Quote Herzog Wolfhammer wrote: Lord LazyGhost wrote: Hi guys not a whine thread. do you guys think that 12 months between remaps is a little to long. ? I would think 6 months would be more realistic. what do you think? I got like 3 or 4 saved remaps - heck I just never cared for it. Now, if we could SELL one of our saved remaps - that would be good. I'd trade one for a couple of PLEX. this could make things interesting yes. But also opens up alt abuse makeing a new alt just to trade your remap across. or recycleing alts to sell their remaps on the market
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 19812	Posted - 2014.03.04 17:26:00 - [51] - Quote Soldarius wrote: I would support paying PLEX for additional remaps. If you want to remove attributes (which is effectively what you're asking for), ask them to remove attributes GÇö don't ask for pay to win schemes. And yes, it is a P2W-scheme: you're paying for the privilege of not being affected by normal game mechanics. It doesn't really matter what those mechanics are; you're still paying to not be bothered by some part of the game. Serene Repose wrote: Not to challenge Tippia's high-flown, irrefutable expert tone.....a year is ridiculous. Six months is a tad more REASONABLE. Remapping isn't for correcting mistakes. It IS useful for attacking particular areas of study for a time...but to be hamstrung for so long when the schoolin's done? You're not hamstrung and if your skill plan can't cover a full year, you should probably go for a mixed remap anyway. There's nothing unreasonable about asking you to wait a year since by the time you actually need to start eating into your real remaps, year-long blocks of training should be the norm. Before that, you can remap more often anyway so there's no reason to change how often it can be done. Herzog Wolfhammer wrote: Now, if we could SELL one of our saved remaps - that would be good. I'd trade one for a couple of PLEX. Presumably, new characters would no longer receive any free remaps then, or would be barred from selling them for a year or two? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1.
Shrewd Tsero Aventine Legion 28	Posted - 2014.03.04 18:02:00 - [52] - Quote Better idea. Instead of shortening the time on remaps, get rid of attributes entirely and just have fixed training times for skills. No, not the same training time for every skill. Keep the time and multipliers in place, but adjust them for say the mid-point between completely optimized and not. Attribute changes are a pointless annual mini-game that really don't add value.
Mara Pahrdi The Order of Anoyia 654	Posted - 2014.03.04 18:04:00 - [53] - Quote Lord LazyGhost wrote: I would think 6 months would be more realistic. what do you think? I think 12 months are fine. Looking at the rate I consume remaps, it's not even close to being an issue. I need a remap approximately every 18 months, some characters have been on the same attributes for more than two years. Choices need to have consequences. Otherwise they are meaningless. So technically I'd have to vote for a longer remap period? Nah, keep it 12 months. That's fine. Remove insurance.
baltec1 Bat Country Goonswarm Federation 10259	Posted - 2014.03.04 18:18:00 - [54] - Quote Serene Repose wrote: Not to challenge Tippia's high-flown, irrefutable expert tone.....a year is ridiculous. Six months is a tad more REASONABLE. Remapping isn't for correcting mistakes. It IS useful for attacking particular areas of study for a time...but to be hamstrung for so long when the schoolin's done? Bleah. A year is totally arbitrary, so my arbitrary six months is just as valid. Be greatfull you can change it at all. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
Crumplecorn Eve Cluster Explorations 755	Posted - 2014.03.04 18:35:00 - [55] - Quote Lord LazyGhost wrote: do you guys think that 12 months between remaps is a little to long. ? I would think 6 months would be more realistic. Didn't we just have this thread about the overall skill training rate? "Hey guys, shouldn't we change [feature] by [number I pulled out of ass] because it 'feels right' to me?" [img]http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sig.php?r=rnd[/img] Desusigs can be seen on the terribad new forums using bbcode enabling script (scroll down to my post for sig rotation)
Winchester Steele 367	Posted - 2014.03.04 18:54:00 - [56] - Quote Em arr Roids wrote: Eveyone is this thread is "letsmakeeveeasierphobic" 12 months is too long. Your stuck specced for a whole year for a certain set of skills and when your done with said skill type it means you have train other types at a slower speed because your not specced and cannot switch attribute specifications. It's fckin stupid imo. 12 month is indeed too long. Look up the definition of "slippery slope", hopefully accompanied by some horrifying examples which have resulted from your way of thinking. Then get back to us. Hth. Also, Eve has got 99 problems, but remaps ain't one of them. ...
Josef Djugashvilis Acme Mining Corporation 2033	Posted - 2014.03.04 19:06:00 - [57] - Quote Remaps should be available just as often as I need one. No more, no less. This is not a signature.
Marsha Mallow 113	Posted - 2014.03.04 19:15:00 - [58] - Quote Crumplecorn wrote: Didn't we just have this thread about the overall skill training rate? "Hey guys, shouldn't we change [feature] by [number I pulled out of ass] because it 'feels right' to me?" Yep. As per the skilltraining thread, we are challenging the number someone else extracted from their buttocks, and inspecting it. Difference is we're inspecting CCP. Nothing wrong with treating them the same as anyone else is there? ps. Please reply with some variant on "CCP know best/everything is fine/back in the day/it's a feature!" -
Karen Avioras Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic 265	Posted - 2014.03.04 19:18:00 - [59] - Quote 12 months isn't that bad really. Time flies. How about you meet halfway? 9 months.
Crumplecorn Eve Cluster Explorations 755	Posted - 2014.03.04 21:18:00 - [60] - Quote Marsha Mallow wrote: Nothing wrong with treating them the same as anyone else is there? Yep, let's treat actual game designers and random forum whiners exactly the same. Flawless plan. [img]http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sig.php?r=rnd[/img] Desusigs can be seen on the terribad new forums using bbcode enabling script (scroll down to my post for sig rotation)

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