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12 months for a remap little long?

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Lord LazyGhost The Bastards The Bastards. 309	Posted - 2014.03.04 10:19:00 - [1] - Quote Hi guys not a whine thread. do you guys think that 12 months between remaps is a little to long. ? I would think 6 months would be more realistic. what do you think?
Entilarza State War Academy Caldari State 0	Posted - 2014.03.04 10:31:00 - [2] - Quote how's this not whine? Get yourself Eve-Mon and HTFU
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 19797	Posted - 2014.03.04 10:31:00 - [3] - Quote I think infinite months would be more realistic. And no, there's no particular reason to reduce it to 6 months either. Remaps are there to fix errors and to specialise. Doing it to often means you're not specialising or you're doing an awful lot wrongGÇª in which case, in good EVE tradition, you have to live with it. 12 months is pretty spot on. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1.
Kimmi Chan Tastes Like Purple 1719	Posted - 2014.03.04 10:33:00 - [4] - Quote Lord LazyGhost wrote: Hi guys not a whine thread. do you guys think that 12 months between remaps is a little to long. ? I would think 6 months would be more realistic. what do you think? lol, no. "Grr Kimmi-á Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide www.eve-radio.com -áJoin Eve Radio channel in game!
Samillian Angry Mustellid 450	Posted - 2014.03.04 10:36:00 - [5] - Quote Remaps are fine as is. I honestly haven't had a skill plan that is less than a minimum of 18 months long. In the five years I've been playing I've only remapped twice, once six months into the game and once at the beginning of this year. NBSI shall be the whole of the Law
Lord LazyGhost The Bastards The Bastards. 310	Posted - 2014.03.04 10:42:00 - [6] - Quote Entilarza wrote: how's this not whine? Get yourself Eve-Mon and HTFU well because iam not crying O no I made a mistake i need a remap boo hoo. it was my just a question to the community. for your info i still have 2 bonus remaps and a normal one. but thanx for the constructive comment.
Salvos Rhoska Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 130	Posted - 2014.03.04 10:45:00 - [7] - Quote Lord LazyGhost wrote: Hi guys not a whine thread. do you guys think that 12 months between remaps is a little to long. ? I would think 6 months would be more realistic. what do you think? Explain the bold/highlighted part, please. Especially regarding it being "realistic".
Lord LazyGhost The Bastards The Bastards. 310	Posted - 2014.03.04 10:56:00 - [8] - Quote Salvos Rhoska wrote: Lord LazyGhost wrote: Hi guys not a whine thread. do you guys think that 12 months between remaps is a little to long. ? I would think 6 months would be more realistic. what do you think? Explain the bold/highlighted part, please. Especially regarding it being "realistic". my opinion.... i think in my own opinion that 6 months would be a better time span. lot of things change in 6 months ships, mods new things added to game sites maybe new skills. ect so being able to change a little quicker to adjust to a changing game could be good. Like i said that is my opinion.
Victor Andall Complexes and Abaddons 219	Posted - 2014.03.04 10:56:00 - [9] - Quote You should only use Remaps once you start making skill plans for several long (10+ days per) skills that all share the same attributes. Skill plans that take roughly a year. I just undocked for the first time and someone challenged me to a duel. Wat do? Andall Combat Tournaments - on hiatus. Contact for more information.
Lord LazyGhost The Bastards The Bastards. 310	Posted - 2014.03.04 11:04:00 - [10] - Quote Victor Andall wrote: You should only use Remaps once you start making skill plans for several long (10+ days per) skills that all share the same attributes. Skill plans that take roughly a year. I agree but what happens 6 months down the line when you go ooo X has been changed or o that looks good the new Y ships seem kewl i may train for them. which makes my end goal not really what i would like to do anymore. You stuck training that skill set for 6 more months because of something you chose 6 months ago when viewing the game in how it used to be before the Hyperthetical changes that happened. Yes you can change your skills que when ever you like it i and just train at a much lower speed then you would at a correct remap.
Frank Millar 473	Posted - 2014.03.04 11:04:00 - [11] - Quote It's my opinion you should biomass.
Em arr Roids Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 17	Posted - 2014.03.04 11:05:00 - [12] - Quote Eveyone is this thread is "letsmakeeveeasierphobic" 12 months is too long. Your stuck specced for a whole year for a certain set of skills and when your done with said skill type it means you have train other types at a slower speed because your not specced and cannot switch attribute specifications. It's fckin stupid imo. 12 month is indeed too long.
Lord LazyGhost The Bastards The Bastards. 310	Posted - 2014.03.04 11:10:00 - [13] - Quote Em arr Roids wrote: Eveyone is this thread is "letsmakeeveeasierphobic" 12 months is too long. Your stuck specced for a whole year for a certain set of skills and when your done with said skill type it means you have train other types at a slower speed because your not specced and cannot switch attribute specifications. It's fckin stupid imo. 12 month is indeed too long. Thank you I think your right about the "letsmakeeveeasierphoic" like that term btw :). also i think most people just like to troll these days. shame really that its come to this. i bet half the trolls on the forums dont even have active accounts anymore!
Hasikan Miallok Republic University Minmatar Republic 383	Posted - 2014.03.04 11:14:00 - [14] - Quote I was due for a 12 month remap last month and when I did a evemon attribute check it suggested the exact same perception int focussed remap i did a year ago. I still have the bonus remaps for my original character and have not used those up either. Must say, people on this forum seem rather SP obsessed. Eve the game of micromanaging skill queues :D People should just play the game and be a bit less obsessed with training.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 19798	Posted - 2014.03.04 11:14:00 - [15] - Quote Lord LazyGhost wrote: I agree but what happens 6 months down the line when you go ooo X has been changed or o that looks good the new Y ships seem kewl i may train for them. What happens is that you'll know 6 months in advance that it'll happen and can thus choose not to make the switch. What also happens is that the new stuff will be just like the old stuff with the same attribute combos, so chances are that you won't have to adjust at all. Quote: You stuck training that skill set for 6 more months because of something you chose 6 months ago when viewing the game in how it used to be before the Hyperthetical changes that happened. No, you're not stuck. You're never stuck. You just train slightly slower. If it's just a module or a ship that has been changed or added, it's such a short diversion that you're hardly going to notice the difference. Em arr Roids wrote: Your stuck specced for a whole year for a certain set of skills GÇªwhich doesn't preclude you from training something else that might come up or that you might have forgotten. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1.
Qweasdy Justified Chaos 86	Posted - 2014.03.04 11:15:00 - [16] - Quote Lord LazyGhost wrote: Em arr Roids wrote: Eveyone is this thread is "letsmakeeveeasierphobic" 12 months is too long. Your stuck specced for a whole year for a certain set of skills and when your done with said skill type it means you have train other types at a slower speed because your not specced and cannot switch attribute specifications. It's fckin stupid imo. 12 month is indeed too long. Thank you I think your right about the "letsmakeeveeasierphoic" like that term btw :). also i think most people just like to troll these days. shame really that its come to this. i bet half the trolls on the forums dont even have active accounts anymore! Curious how when someone agrees with you they're fine but everyone else is a troll... it's almost as if your opinion is the only valid one... This is a terrible thread. As such, it's locked. - CCP Falcon
Hasikan Miallok Republic University Minmatar Republic 383	Posted - 2014.03.04 11:17:00 - [17] - Quote Tippia wrote: Lord LazyGhost wrote: I agree but what happens 6 months down the line when you go ooo X has been changed or o that looks good the new Y ships seem kewl i may train for them. What happens is that you'll know 6 months in advance that it'll happen and can thus choose not to make the switch. What also happens is that the new stuff will be just like the old stuff with the same attribute combos, so chances are that you won't have to adjust at all. Quote: You stuck training that skill set for 6 more months because of something you chose 6 months ago when viewing the game in how it used to be before the Hyperthetical changes that happened. No, you're not stuck. You're never stuck. You just train slightly slower. If it's just a module or a ship that has been changed or added, it's such a short diversion that you're hardly going to notice the difference. Em arr Roids wrote: Your stuck specced for a whole year for a certain set of skills GÇªwhich doesn't preclude you from training something else that might come up or that you might have forgotten. yep unless for some insane reason you decide to convert your PvP character into an indy/trader the skills you need bonused do not really change much. Plus in the end a remap saves maybe 10 days over a year ... seriously ... who cares if takes a week longer to get into that carrier after two years training ?.
Lord LazyGhost The Bastards The Bastards. 310	Posted - 2014.03.04 11:19:00 - [18] - Quote Qweasdy wrote: Lord LazyGhost wrote: Em arr Roids wrote: Eveyone is this thread is "letsmakeeveeasierphobic" 12 months is too long. Your stuck specced for a whole year for a certain set of skills and when your done with said skill type it means you have train other types at a slower speed because your not specced and cannot switch attribute specifications. It's fckin stupid imo. 12 month is indeed too long. Thank you I think your right about the "letsmakeeveeasierphoic" like that term btw :). also i think most people just like to troll these days. shame really that its come to this. i bet half the trolls on the forums dont even have active accounts anymore! Curious how when someone agrees with you they're fine but everyone else is a troll... it's almost as if your opinion is the only valid one... thats not true. I deem a troll post as something that is not constructive at all things like biomass your self. year great advice. was also a general view of the forums today from what it used to be like.. or you know posting a message just to try and get a negative reaction from someone. make them purge so to speak.
Miomeifeng Alduin Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 2	Posted - 2014.03.04 11:22:00 - [19] - Quote Em arr Roids wrote: Eveyone is this thread is "letsmakeeveeasierphobic" 12 months is too long. Your stuck specced for a whole year for a certain set of skills and when your done with said skill type it means you have train other types at a slower speed because your not specced and cannot switch attribute specifications. It's fckin stupid imo. 12 month is indeed too long. so, what i get from this is: i want to train several skills faster, and then remap and train other skills faster, and then remap and do that again, and all of that without the downside of having other skills train slower. so you just want a constant skilltraining "boost".
Qweasdy Justified Chaos 86	Posted - 2014.03.04 11:24:00 - [20] - Quote Lord LazyGhost wrote: thats not true. I deem a troll post as something that is not constructive at all things like biomass your self. year great advice. was also a general view of the forums today from what it used to be like.. or you know posting a message just to try and get a negative reaction from someone. make them purge so to speak. There have been plenty of reasonable posts that disagree with you, yes there have been troll posts but that's par for the course when you post a suggestion in GD instead of F&I without even putting a good case behind it. This is a terrible thread. As such, it's locked. - CCP Falcon
Em arr Roids Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 17	Posted - 2014.03.04 11:37:00 - [21] - Quote Miomeifeng Alduin wrote: Em arr Roids wrote: Eveyone is this thread is "letsmakeeveeasierphobic" 12 months is too long. Your stuck specced for a whole year for a certain set of skills and when your done with said skill type it means you have train other types at a slower speed because your not specced and cannot switch attribute specifications. It's fckin stupid imo. 12 month is indeed too long. so, what i get from this is: i want to train several skills faster, and then remap and train other skills faster, and then remap and do that again, and all of that without the downside of having other skills train slower. so you just want a constant skilltraining "boost". Why not ?
Em arr Roids Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 17	Posted - 2014.03.04 11:43:00 - [22] - Quote Qweasdy wrote: Lord LazyGhost wrote: thats not true. I deem a troll post as something that is not constructive at all things like biomass your self. year great advice. was also a general view of the forums today from what it used to be like.. or you know posting a message just to try and get a negative reaction from someone. make them purge so to speak. There have been plenty of reasonable posts that disagree with you, yes there have been troll posts but that's par for the course when you post a suggestion in GD instead of F&I without even putting a good case behind it. and vice versa, nobody is presenting a good case as to why it is a bad idea. Saying "No, who care's if it take a few days longer to train a skill" is not a good reason not to consider the idea. The people who benefit the most are the new players and low end sp players. Why is that so bad ?
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 19799	Posted - 2014.03.04 11:44:00 - [23] - Quote Em arr Roids wrote: Why not ? Because it makes the concept of a boost pointless to begin with. The remaps are there specifically to make you train some stuff slower. If you can just get around that trivially or at will, you might as well remove the remaps entirely since they serve no purpose. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1.
Inquisitor Kitchner Galaxy Punks Executive Outcomes 1050	Posted - 2014.03.04 11:45:00 - [24] - Quote Don't newbies get a couple of free remaps? If they don't I think they should, they are the only ones I'm worried about as they are the only ones who have an excuse if they make a mistake and then have to live with it for 12 months. If you start out with say 2 bonus remaps and your standard one, you can essentially remap 3 times in less then 12 months. On the other hand, if you want to train something like leadership for combat ships there isn't even 12 months worth of skills that are worth training. After you've got FCV and all the boosting skills for combat ships that's about 8 months of skill training. I also think the amount of choice is pointless. Why can I spread the attributes individually when the optimal remap is nearly always just skewed in favour of one or two statistics? I'd actually be in favour of speeding up all skill training a little bit and cutting remaps all together and if people want to boost their stats they can buy the implants to do it. Maybe introduce some "officer" implants that give more then +5 too. "If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared." - Niccolo Machiavelli
Lord LazyGhost The Bastards The Bastards. 310	Posted - 2014.03.04 11:45:00 - [25] - Quote Em arr Roids wrote: Miomeifeng Alduin wrote: Em arr Roids wrote: Eveyone is this thread is "letsmakeeveeasierphobic" 12 months is too long. Your stuck specced for a whole year for a certain set of skills and when your done with said skill type it means you have train other types at a slower speed because your not specced and cannot switch attribute specifications. It's fckin stupid imo. 12 month is indeed too long. so, what i get from this is: i want to train several skills faster, and then remap and train other skills faster, and then remap and do that again, and all of that without the downside of having other skills train slower. so you just want a constant skilltraining "boost". Why not ? if you make it to easy to change between them people do it all the time. there still needs to be some though and planning going into it. I would be for removing them the ability to adjust them all together and just having them fixed across the board. or even god forbid have them provided by bloodline to make picking a race and bloodline mean something again. Like in the passed it determined what skills you started with. these days it just makes no real difference at all. maybe the answer would be to have them all the same so you train any skill at the same pace. and the only way to increase the speed is with implants. or bring back the learning skills :) (puts on flame proof jacket)
Matarella Occupational Hazzard Gentlemen's Agreement 31	Posted - 2014.03.04 11:48:00 - [26] - Quote I can remember we had learning skills. you had to devote months to training to 5. And there was no remap, the atributes you took at the start of the game. was what you were stuck with. What I am trying to say. Be ***** grateful they added a system where you can switch every 12 months. Inquisitor Kitchner wrote:** Don't newbies get a couple of free remaps? New characters receive 2 free remaps when they start playing.
Jint Hikaru Truly Transdimensional The Nova Foundry 1125	Posted - 2014.03.04 11:51:00 - [27] - Quote I think 12 months is fine. Rushing to train for FOTM skills is bad, M'Kay. Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
Ralen Zateki Nexis. League of Infamy 81	Posted - 2014.03.04 12:19:00 - [28] - Quote Looks like a stealth "zomg it takes too long to skill up" thread. You get what, like 2 or 3 remaps the first year? That should be plenty to get a core established... after a year yer gonna be grinding hard for awhile anyway right? So, uh... nope.
Jommis Men's Curling 86	Posted - 2014.03.04 13:00:00 - [29] - Quote I want remap for plex..
Lord LazyGhost The Bastards The Bastards. 310	Posted - 2014.03.04 13:11:00 - [30] - Quote Ralen Zateki wrote: Looks like a stealth "zomg it takes too long to skill up" thread. You get what, like 2 or 3 remaps the first year? That should be plenty to get a core established... after a year yer gonna be grinding hard for awhile anyway right? So, uh... nope. nar not really with 90m sp on this char and a main char 150+ dont really need to skill up faster. Just something i was thinking about and thought would be a good discusion point.
Rhivre TarNec Invisible Exchequer 730	Posted - 2014.03.04 13:20:00 - [31] - Quote The amount of difference it makes to training is that great that I did not notice I was mapped full charisma for 2 years, while training industry and some ships. But then, I never notice whether or not I have implants. I am probably just a terrible player and should biomass immediately :/ Fluffy Bunny Pic!
Tysun Kane Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 19	Posted - 2014.03.04 13:33:00 - [32] - Quote I believe the time between remaps is all about balancing which CCP does very well compared to tiger MMOs. If we we're able to change our maps more often it would defeat the purpose of remapping to begin with. I believe that's why there are augmentations and plugins to further help with what ever you want to train for or if you want to change up your training or purpose if your pilot at any givin time.
seth Hendar I love you miners 481	Posted - 2014.03.04 13:51:00 - [33] - Quote i, for one, think it would be a good idea. i agree that eve, being a game where specialization counts, a 12month based skill plan and remap make sense. however, for the past 2 years, CCP is shaking the game pretty hard, sometime defeating the whole 12 month plan you put together, because they made activity X not worth it anymore, or ship Y not able to fullfill your goal. so as long as things keep changing, a shorter time between remaps would make sense, because getting screwed 4 month in your skill plan because CCP decided to change feature / ship / skills / whatever, is frustrating because there is NOTHING you can do about it. and you can't adapt, since you remapped for 12 month, meaning you are tied to either skill something you will not use, or skill something you will use given the new parameters, but at a slow pace.
masternerdguy State Protectorate Caldari State 1434	Posted - 2014.03.04 13:54:00 - [34] - Quote Remove remaps, re-introduce learning skills (and make EVERYONE train them again). Things are only impossible until they are not.
Salvos Rhoska Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 131	Posted - 2014.03.04 13:55:00 - [35] - Quote An indirect alternative would be implementing an AUR purchasable Re-map. Expensive, but if someone really wants to squeeze a few days off a long train or finds themselves bottlenecked for a year if/when they change their career plans, I would be ok with this.
Soldarius Deadman W0nderland Test Alliance Please Ignore 570	Posted - 2014.03.04 13:58:00 - [36] - Quote I would support paying PLEX for additional remaps. Free Ripley Weaver!
Qweasdy Justified Chaos 89	Posted - 2014.03.04 14:00:00 - [37] - Quote Salvos Rhoska wrote: An indirect alternative would be implementing an AUR purchasable Re-map. Expensive, but if someone really wants to squeeze a few days off a long train or finds themselves bottlenecked for a year if/when they change their career plans, I would be ok with this. I personally wouldn't mind this... but... gamers... we can be an irrational bunch when it comes to stuff you can pay for... This is a terrible thread. As such, it's locked. - CCP Falcon
Noxisia Arkana Deadspace Knights 218	Posted - 2014.03.04 14:02:00 - [38] - Quote It feels infinitely long when you're starting, and matters significantly less after a couple years.
Praetor Meles Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic 171	Posted - 2014.03.04 14:18:00 - [39] - Quote Soldarius wrote: I would support paying PLEX for additional remaps. i.e. pay to win [insert random rubbish that irritates you personally] is further evidence that Eve is dying/thriving* * delete as required to make your point
Salvos Rhoska Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 131	Posted - 2014.03.04 14:24:00 - [40] - Quote Praetor Meles wrote: Soldarius wrote: I would support paying PLEX for additional remaps. i.e. pay to win Except there is no real "win" in it. You can't buy Skills, which is what the mind likes to think this is, owing to being used to conventional P2W systems and how skills are gained in other games. All it does is shave a few days off a long train. That person would get that skill anyways, just a few days later. If they choose to spend AUR on buying a remap, that increases their expense on the character, and eats into their profit even if they are deliberately farming/biomassing toons for sale on Bazaar.
Praetor Meles Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic 171	Posted - 2014.03.04 14:35:00 - [41] - Quote Salvos Rhoska wrote: You can't buy Skills... All it does is shave a few days off a long train... I see where you are coming from, and from a certain perspective it does make sense. On the face of it, you pay real life money to end up with more skill points than somebody who does not pay real life money over the same time frame. Now...in total...that is not actually the case. Provided you remap once in a year to something and stick to it, you'll accrue SP at the same rate as somebody who is remapping every week (and similarly sticking to skills that fit that remap). However, multiple remaps would allow somebody to focus on a narrower set of skills at will without penalty - effectively allowing somebody to aggressively train ships/modules for competitve advantage against somebody who was not able to remap frequently. Over the long run, it would arguably not provide a benefit. Over the short run, it would let (some wealthy) people take advantage of specific situations using real world cash - something that would not be open to others? [insert random rubbish that irritates you personally] is further evidence that Eve is dying/thriving* * delete as required to make your point
Salvos Rhoska Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 131	Posted - 2014.03.04 14:40:00 - [42] - Quote Praetor Meles wrote: Over the long run, it would arguably not provide a benefit. Over the short run, it would let (some wealthy) people take advantage of specific situations using real world cash - something that would not be open to others? ISK into PLEX into AUR into Re-Map.
Serene Repose Saanen Freight Service 970	Posted - 2014.03.04 15:49:00 - [43] - Quote Not to challenge Tippia's high-flown, irrefutable expert tone.....a year is ridiculous. Six months is a tad more REASONABLE. Remapping isn't for correcting mistakes. It IS useful for attacking particular areas of study for a time...but to be hamstrung for so long when the schoolin's done? Bleah. A year is totally arbitrary, so my arbitrary six months is just as valid. I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility toward every form of tyranny over the mind of man.-á
masternerdguy State Protectorate Caldari State 1440	Posted - 2014.03.04 15:51:00 - [44] - Quote Serene Repose wrote: Not to challenge Tippia's high-flown, irrefutable expert tone.....a year is ridiculous. Six months is a tad more REASONABLE. Remapping isn't for correcting mistakes. It IS useful for attacking particular areas of study for a time...but to be hamstrung for so long when the schoolin's done? Bleah. A year is totally arbitrary, so my arbitrary six months is just as valid. You are literally complaining that the rate at which you gain SP is slightly lower. Notice I said "the rate at which you gain" indicating you are not losing SP. And if it bothers you that much, don't remap. Things are only impossible until they are not.
Marsha Mallow 113	Posted - 2014.03.04 15:54:00 - [45] - Quote Twelve months does seem a bit arbitrary given we have an expansion every six months. Before anyone starts frothing at the mouth I have plenty of 120m+ sp characters which still have 3 bonus remaps. I don't really agree on allowing remaps for ISK or Aurum, it would just allow certain people to effectively pay for extra SP/perceived advancement. Perhaps the most useful thing would be to increase remaps specifically for newer characters - even the 2 bonus remaps you get now can be used up early on just getting core skills done. Random example, new characters could have 2 bonus remaps every 6 months for the first 18 or 24, then decrease the number or frequency. It will make new accounts train faster, but that imbalance has been there since new bloodlines with improved base attributes were added (Achura ftw). Having said that additional remaps could be awarded for other things so older players don't entirely miss out, like the loyalty scheme that hasn't materialised. Tbh I think CCP planned on selling remaps for Aurum before Incarna, and like Nex store additions, it's just been shelved for the time being. Although there was one hilarious portion of the CSM meetings (last summer maybe?) where they suggested SP for Aurum or ISK and the CSM had to very patiently explain that the playerbase would go berserk. Maybe that section was added for a laugh, but the bemused dev response seemed plausible. -
Serene Repose Saanen Freight Service 970	Posted - 2014.03.04 15:57:00 - [46] - Quote masternerdguy wrote: Serene Repose wrote: Not to challenge Tippia's high-flown, irrefutable expert tone.....a year is ridiculous. Six months is a tad more REASONABLE. Remapping isn't for correcting mistakes. It IS useful for attacking particular areas of study for a time...but to be hamstrung for so long when the schoolin's done? Bleah. A year is totally arbitrary, so my arbitrary six months is just as valid. You are literally complaining that the rate at which you gain SP is slightly lower. Notice I said "the rate at which you gain" indicating you are not losing SP. And if it bothers you that much, don't remap. Umm....geez. I wouldn't want you to thoughtlessly jump to the wrong conclusions. I'm neither complaining, nor bothered. I'm commenting. If you don't like THAT, don't read it. Problem solved. I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility toward every form of tyranny over the mind of man.-á
Lord LazyGhost The Bastards The Bastards. 311	Posted - 2014.03.04 16:04:00 - [47] - Quote now this is more like the debate i was trying to get going. thank you all for joining in and lets keep this polite.
March rabbit Federal Defense Union 1301	Posted - 2014.03.04 16:11:00 - [48] - Quote Lord LazyGhost wrote: Salvos Rhoska wrote: Lord LazyGhost wrote: I would think 6 months would be more realistic. Explain the bold/highlighted part, please. Especially regarding it being "realistic". my opinion.... i think in my own opinion that 6 months would be a better time span. lot of things change in 6 months ships, mods new things added to game sites maybe new skills. ect so being able to change a little quicker to adjust to a changing game could be good. it looks reasonable to me. CCP makes releases "every 6 months" and they change stuff. Sometimes they change it A LOT. It looks like players should have way to fix their training queues accordingly. The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Herzog Wolfhammer Sigma Special Tactics Group 4385	Posted - 2014.03.04 16:24:00 - [49] - Quote Lord LazyGhost wrote: Hi guys not a whine thread. do you guys think that 12 months between remaps is a little to long. ? I would think 6 months would be more realistic. what do you think? I got like 3 or 4 saved remaps - heck I just never cared for it. Now, if we could SELL one of our saved remaps - that would be good. I'd trade one for a couple of PLEX. Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Lord LazyGhost The Bastards The Bastards. 311	Posted - 2014.03.04 16:32:00 - [50] - Quote Herzog Wolfhammer wrote: Lord LazyGhost wrote: Hi guys not a whine thread. do you guys think that 12 months between remaps is a little to long. ? I would think 6 months would be more realistic. what do you think? I got like 3 or 4 saved remaps - heck I just never cared for it. Now, if we could SELL one of our saved remaps - that would be good. I'd trade one for a couple of PLEX. this could make things interesting yes. But also opens up alt abuse makeing a new alt just to trade your remap across. or recycleing alts to sell their remaps on the market
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 19812	Posted - 2014.03.04 17:26:00 - [51] - Quote Soldarius wrote: I would support paying PLEX for additional remaps. If you want to remove attributes (which is effectively what you're asking for), ask them to remove attributes GÇö don't ask for pay to win schemes. And yes, it is a P2W-scheme: you're paying for the privilege of not being affected by normal game mechanics. It doesn't really matter what those mechanics are; you're still paying to not be bothered by some part of the game. Serene Repose wrote: Not to challenge Tippia's high-flown, irrefutable expert tone.....a year is ridiculous. Six months is a tad more REASONABLE. Remapping isn't for correcting mistakes. It IS useful for attacking particular areas of study for a time...but to be hamstrung for so long when the schoolin's done? You're not hamstrung and if your skill plan can't cover a full year, you should probably go for a mixed remap anyway. There's nothing unreasonable about asking you to wait a year since by the time you actually need to start eating into your real remaps, year-long blocks of training should be the norm. Before that, you can remap more often anyway so there's no reason to change how often it can be done. Herzog Wolfhammer wrote: Now, if we could SELL one of our saved remaps - that would be good. I'd trade one for a couple of PLEX. Presumably, new characters would no longer receive any free remaps then, or would be barred from selling them for a year or two? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1.
Shrewd Tsero Aventine Legion 28	Posted - 2014.03.04 18:02:00 - [52] - Quote Better idea. Instead of shortening the time on remaps, get rid of attributes entirely and just have fixed training times for skills. No, not the same training time for every skill. Keep the time and multipliers in place, but adjust them for say the mid-point between completely optimized and not. Attribute changes are a pointless annual mini-game that really don't add value.
Mara Pahrdi The Order of Anoyia 654	Posted - 2014.03.04 18:04:00 - [53] - Quote Lord LazyGhost wrote: I would think 6 months would be more realistic. what do you think? I think 12 months are fine. Looking at the rate I consume remaps, it's not even close to being an issue. I need a remap approximately every 18 months, some characters have been on the same attributes for more than two years. Choices need to have consequences. Otherwise they are meaningless. So technically I'd have to vote for a longer remap period? Nah, keep it 12 months. That's fine. Remove insurance.
baltec1 Bat Country Goonswarm Federation 10259	Posted - 2014.03.04 18:18:00 - [54] - Quote Serene Repose wrote: Not to challenge Tippia's high-flown, irrefutable expert tone.....a year is ridiculous. Six months is a tad more REASONABLE. Remapping isn't for correcting mistakes. It IS useful for attacking particular areas of study for a time...but to be hamstrung for so long when the schoolin's done? Bleah. A year is totally arbitrary, so my arbitrary six months is just as valid. Be greatfull you can change it at all. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
Crumplecorn Eve Cluster Explorations 755	Posted - 2014.03.04 18:35:00 - [55] - Quote Lord LazyGhost wrote: do you guys think that 12 months between remaps is a little to long. ? I would think 6 months would be more realistic. Didn't we just have this thread about the overall skill training rate? "Hey guys, shouldn't we change [feature] by [number I pulled out of ass] because it 'feels right' to me?" [img]http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sig.php?r=rnd[/img] Desusigs can be seen on the terribad new forums using bbcode enabling script (scroll down to my post for sig rotation)
Winchester Steele 367	Posted - 2014.03.04 18:54:00 - [56] - Quote Em arr Roids wrote: Eveyone is this thread is "letsmakeeveeasierphobic" 12 months is too long. Your stuck specced for a whole year for a certain set of skills and when your done with said skill type it means you have train other types at a slower speed because your not specced and cannot switch attribute specifications. It's fckin stupid imo. 12 month is indeed too long. Look up the definition of "slippery slope", hopefully accompanied by some horrifying examples which have resulted from your way of thinking. Then get back to us. Hth. Also, Eve has got 99 problems, but remaps ain't one of them. ...
Josef Djugashvilis Acme Mining Corporation 2033	Posted - 2014.03.04 19:06:00 - [57] - Quote Remaps should be available just as often as I need one. No more, no less. This is not a signature.
Marsha Mallow 113	Posted - 2014.03.04 19:15:00 - [58] - Quote Crumplecorn wrote: Didn't we just have this thread about the overall skill training rate? "Hey guys, shouldn't we change [feature] by [number I pulled out of ass] because it 'feels right' to me?" Yep. As per the skilltraining thread, we are challenging the number someone else extracted from their buttocks, and inspecting it. Difference is we're inspecting CCP. Nothing wrong with treating them the same as anyone else is there? ps. Please reply with some variant on "CCP know best/everything is fine/back in the day/it's a feature!" -
Karen Avioras Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic 265	Posted - 2014.03.04 19:18:00 - [59] - Quote 12 months isn't that bad really. Time flies. How about you meet halfway? 9 months.
Crumplecorn Eve Cluster Explorations 755	Posted - 2014.03.04 21:18:00 - [60] - Quote Marsha Mallow wrote: Nothing wrong with treating them the same as anyone else is there? Yep, let's treat actual game designers and random forum whiners exactly the same. Flawless plan. [img]http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sig.php?r=rnd[/img] Desusigs can be seen on the terribad new forums using bbcode enabling script (scroll down to my post for sig rotation)
Mr Epeen It's All About Me 4267	Posted - 2014.03.04 22:11:00 - [61] - Quote Let's say the OP was born at the end of 2009. That's about 8 remaps to now. If you burned through those already, you are seriously ADD,in my opinion. Mr Epeen There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
Tau Cabalander Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs 3235	Posted - 2014.03.04 22:32:00 - [62] - Quote Tippia wrote: I think infinite months would be more realistic. Those were the days... I create a character, and I have to assign 5 attribute points with no more than 3 points per attribute. I don't have a clue what attributes are or what they do. I'll have to live with my choice forever.
Marsha Mallow 114	Posted - 2014.03.04 22:51:00 - [63] - Quote Crumplecorn wrote: Marsha Mallow wrote: Nothing wrong with treating them the same as anyone else is there? Yep, let's treat actual game designers and random forum whiners exactly the same. Flawless plan. Or, treat everyone equally and address their ideas as - as foolish as the next persons until someone else shows them up. Including the established ones (it really does seem to tick the forum toadies off for some reason). You do realise the devs are also space nerds, yeh? Some of them are even former forum dribblers. Have you seen their hair? And you trust them to do ~things~ competently. 'Actual' game designers is about as laughable as 'actual' politicians. Or salesmen. 'Actual' spacenerds are just as 'entitled' to leeroy about with their mouths, bad ideas and spelling - that mentality of subversion and defiance underpins the game philosophy. Not sure why you GD twerps lost sight of that, but I suppose smacking people with your tiny clammy little hands and watching them crawl away will induce mass delusion. Perhaps you missed the part where the freaky haired devs invited us to bellow "bollocks!", ahem, I mean give feedback. Don't stop throwing yourself in front of the debate with your "whiner" banners though. I'm sure that will work flawlessly too. -
Remiel Pollard Stirling Iron Society A Rather Intimidating Group of Individuals 2654	Posted - 2014.03.04 22:54:00 - [64] - Quote Em arr Roids wrote: Eveyone is this thread is "letsmakeeveeasierphobic" Does that mean everyone else is "hardmodephobic"? HTFU. You don't scare me. I've been to Jita.
Unsuccessful At Everything The Troll Bridge 10595	Posted - 2014.03.04 22:59:00 - [65] - Quote Asking for remaps every 6 months is like asking for more remaps... and I think everyone knows my position on people who ask for more remaps..... Unsuccessful At Everything wrote: I think anyone who whines about wanting more remaps needs to be docked a remap. *Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?*
Salvos Rhoska Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 141	Posted - 2014.03.04 23:04:00 - [66] - Quote Marsha, no offense, but you make zero sense.
Just Lilly 147	Posted - 2014.03.04 23:10:00 - [67] - Quote I wish there was a way, to sell my banked and unused remaps to others. I still have another ~600 days to go with my current remap. And I have 3 remaps banked Oh well... Powered by Nvidia GTX 690
Hasikan Miallok Republic University Minmatar Republic 388	Posted - 2014.03.04 23:30:00 - [68] - Quote Just Lilly wrote: I wish there was a way, to sell my banked and unused remaps to others. I still have another ~600 days to go with my current remap. And I have 3 remaps banked Oh well... Yeah i have all my original free ones and my renewable ones have all cycled back and are available again. On some characters a remap might save 5 days in a year on others they are still optimal even after 12 months. Considering I sometimes do not even bother with logging in and updating the skill queue for days and some of my same-account characters I don't even plex to train I see remaps as a non issue. In EVE its not your characters SP that matters its who you know in game, who you fleet with, and what you as a player know about EVE that actually matters most. This has been clearly demonstrated by BNI that can take a bunch of one or two month old characters and create havoc against much higher SP fleets. Basically ... STOP OBSESSING OVER SKILLS AND PLAY THE GAME INSTEAD
Marsha Mallow 114	Posted - 2014.03.04 23:40:00 - [69] - Quote Salvos Rhoska wrote: Marsha, no offense, but you make zero sense. It's an art. No offence, but -
Eric Stratton Re-Awakened Technologies Inc The 11th Hour Alliance 7	Posted - 2014.03.05 01:19:00 - [70] - Quote I really don't see how attributes or attribute remaps add to the game. Back in the old days, where bloodlines had certain attribute layouts and you had points to distribute... had a bit of an RP flavor to it, though on the downside it led to a bunch of Caldari due to initial attributes. Static attributes added a bit of a very light "this is my class" kinda vibe, but when you were starting the game you didn't know enough to make sensible choices about it. If you are advocating for more remaps... I guess I'd ask "How does managing re-maps make the game more fun?" If the answer is "Because it gets me more skill points", well, I don't know that I support that, but even if I did, it seems more remaps would be a cumbersome and annoying way to achieve that end. "Welcome to Eve Online, manage attribute remaps to maximize your rate of skill point accrual!" doesn't seem like much of a selling point.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 19816	Posted - 2014.03.05 01:31:00 - [71] - Quote Eric Stratton wrote: I really don't see how attributes or attribute remaps add to the game. It rewards planning and specialisation and provides a long-term cost/benefit decision for what you want to obtain now as opposed to what you can leave for later. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1.
Sylveria Relden Spartan Shipyards THE H0NEYBADGER 22	Posted - 2014.03.05 01:50:00 - [72] - Quote I'll start this out by saying I was one of those people who wasted my remaps at the very beginning, simply because I didn't understand what they were used for. This is not CCP's "fault", and it's not the rest of the community's "fault" either- it's mine for not reading up on skill training in the first place and really grasping the concept of how to set a long-term skill plan into effect from the beginning. I've since corrected my ways, and put some long-term skill plan goals into effect- and I now queue up what I need to bearing in mind my previous mistake and dealing with it. It reminds me not to make the same mistake again- and helps me to focus on being patient, too. That being said, remap waiting time is fine. If you made mistakes- then live with them. If you wasted your remaps- spend the next year really focusing on what you need to train, and when your remap comes back around, use it to focus on the next set of long-train skills. Read up on the primary and secondary attributes, too- before you put anything into effect and do a remap.
KIller Wabbit The Scope Gallente Federation 540	Posted - 2014.03.05 02:01:00 - [73] - Quote Every ship nerf, err "rebalance", puts up a pretty strong signal for a remap. 6 months would really help cope with the chain yanks. Especially when they dead-end a skill... CCP Punkturis-á "I want to get in on the goodposter circle jerk!"
Mario Putzo Welping and Dunking. 360	Posted - 2014.03.05 02:35:00 - [74] - Quote Just set all points to 20 and get rid of remaps
Eric Stratton Re-Awakened Technologies Inc The 11th Hour Alliance 7	Posted - 2014.03.05 02:42:00 - [75] - Quote Tippia wrote: It rewards planning and specialisation and provides a long-term cost/benefit decision for what you want to obtain now as opposed to what you can leave for later. It does. If remaps are to exist at all, I agree with your position. Certainly adding more remaps reduces this minor addition. I guess if I have any point at all, it would be that if someone is proposing a change to this mechanic, how do they imagine it making the game cooler, or rewarding savvier play and so on? "It makes my SP number tick faster" or "FOTM changed and now I can change with it faster" is not the thrilling innovation I'm looking for from CCP.
Crumplecorn Eve Cluster Explorations 755	Posted - 2014.03.05 03:43:00 - [76] - Quote Marsha Mallow wrote: Or, treat everyone equally and address their ideas Ok. Let's examine OP's actual argument for a change to remap: Lord LazyGhost wrote: ... Repeat for everyone in the thread who agrees. [img]http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sig.php?r=rnd[/img] Desusigs can be seen on the terribad new forums using bbcode enabling script (scroll down to my post for sig rotation)
Hasikan Miallok Republic University Minmatar Republic 388	Posted - 2014.03.05 03:52:00 - [77] - Quote Double Post
Hasikan Miallok Republic University Minmatar Republic 388	Posted - 2014.03.05 03:53:00 - [78] - Quote Here is another way of looking at it ~~~~~> Lets assume we do what the OP suggests and replace the current bonus remaps for new players with a remap every 6 months option. OLD SYSTEM: remap at start remap at 6 months (bonus remap) remap at 12 months (standard remap) remap at 18 months ( bonus remap) remap at 24 months ( standard remap) remap at 30 months (whoops ran out) versus NEW SYSTEM remap at start and every 6 months Sooooooooooooooooo ...... under the proposed system the new player is better off once his toon reaches around 2 and half years of play time. uh - huh , that sure is gunna excite new players :D
Shederov Blood Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company 828	Posted - 2014.03.05 04:31:00 - [79] - Quote Remove remaps, introduce "brain training." One attribute point is automatically remapped every couple of weeks based on which areas of the brain have been the most active.
Inxentas Ultramar Ultramar Independent Contracting 1194	Posted - 2014.03.05 09:51:00 - [80] - Quote I haven't flown anything new in a year. thus Eve is dying. Or something. I kind of agree with the OP. No wait. I don't care.
Spurty V0LTA Triumvirate. 1240	Posted - 2014.03.05 13:43:00 - [81] - Quote When you approach 200 mill skill points how does one specialize? *signature is not allowed on the EVE Online forums*
Ninteen Seventy-Nine Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 33	Posted - 2014.03.05 14:10:00 - [82] - Quote I think I've remapped the attributes on my main character 3 times. ...in 10 years. "The unending paradox is that we do learn through pain."
Ninteen Seventy-Nine Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 33	Posted - 2014.03.05 14:11:00 - [83] - Quote Spurty wrote: When you approach 200 mill skill points how does one specialize? With patience and Evemon "The unending paradox is that we do learn through pain."
Spurty V0LTA Triumvirate. 1240	Posted - 2014.03.05 21:50:00 - [84] - Quote Not really following your pseudo speak. Remaps are needed to specialize (hence why that's a daft suggestion) *signature is not allowed on the EVE Online forums*
Your Dad Naked State War Academy Caldari State 141	Posted - 2014.03.05 22:00:00 - [85] - Quote At 200million SP, surely waiting 12 months per remap isn't such an issue. I'm guessing with that much SP, you've had 8-10 chances to remap already. Yet there's only 5 or so combinations that are needed, of which only 3 are necessary as a combat pilot (less in other roles). EDIT: I think I might be misunderstanding something here, perhaps we are saying the same thing. vOv
Frostys Virpio The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc 1014	Posted - 2014.03.05 22:44:00 - [86] - Quote Tippia wrote: Eric Stratton wrote: I really don't see how attributes or attribute remaps add to the game. It rewards planning and specialisation and provides a long-term cost/benefit decision for what you want to obtain now as opposed to what you can leave for later. The only small issue I have with that is it's shitting over newbies who don't know better while being extremely rewarding to vets training thier Xth alt for a specific purpose. Newbie learning skills all around the palce because he want to try many different things he enver knew about is bound to barely ever be in the right remap.
Hasikan Miallok Republic University Minmatar Republic 392	Posted - 2014.03.05 23:38:00 - [87] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: Tippia wrote: Eric Stratton wrote: I really don't see how attributes or attribute remaps add to the game. It rewards planning and specialisation and provides a long-term cost/benefit decision for what you want to obtain now as opposed to what you can leave for later. The only small issue I have with that is it's shitting over newbies who don't know better while being extremely rewarding to vets training thier Xth alt for a specific purpose. Newbie learning skills all around the palce because he want to try many different things he enver knew about is bound to barely ever be in the right remap. The "right" remap for most new players is generally mainly perception with a little bit of intelligence and not much else.
MicroWarpdrive II Arrogance. 2	Posted - 2014.03.06 00:37:00 - [88] - Quote It seems fair, but I wouldn't complain if it was shorter.

ISD Ezwal ISD Community Communications Liaisons 972	Posted - 2014.03.06 01:20:00 - [89] - Quote I have removed some rule breaking posts and those quoting them. As always I let some edge cases stay. Please people, keep it on topic and above all civil! The rules: 4. Personal attacks are prohibited. Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not beneficial to the community spirit that CCP promote and as such they will not be tolerated. 5. Trolling is prohibited. Trolling is a defined as a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting other players in an attempt to incite retaliation or an emotional response. Posts of this nature are disruptive, often abusive and do not contribute to the sense of community that CCP promote. 26. Off-topic posting is prohibited. Off-topic posting is permitted within reason, as sometimes a single comment may color or lighten the tone of discussion. However, excessive posting of off-topic remarks in an attempt to derail a thread may result in the thread being locked, or a forum warning being issued. ISD Ezwal Commander Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department

Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 19838	Posted - 2014.03.06 01:30:00 - [90] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: The only small issue I have with that is it's shitting over newbies who don't know better while being extremely rewarding to vets training thier Xth alt for a specific purpose. Newbie learning skills all around the palce because he want to try many different things he enver knew about is bound to barely ever be in the right remap. Agreed, but that's also why they get a number of free remaps. The bigger problem is really that their initial attributes don't particularly match anything you'd want to learn at the start. I mean, intuitively, it might seem like an GÇ£everything equalGÇ¥ spread might give them a good platform to do all that varied training on, but that intuition hinges on the attributes getting equal use and they just don't. With a better thought out initial distribution, there would be less need for them to touch the remap at all because they already have what they need for that starting period. By the time it's worth going into the longer single-pair specialised skill queues, they too would be able to reap the rewards of good planning. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1.
Blodhgarm Dethahal Transcendent Sedition Dustm3n 84	Posted - 2014.03.10 13:59:00 - [91] - Quote I find it funny that people are saying that they need to remap because they need to train into a different ship but Ships are all Perception/Willpower remaps, so there is no need to remap anyway. Anyway... 1 year is fine... -Bl+¦d

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