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Zhou Yu
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Posted - 2006.04.21 18:02:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Zhou Yu on 21/04/2006 18:05:45
Griefing is a perfectly valid ingame style of play and its also encouraged. But sometimes players get very upset when they are ganked and consequently quit the game. So if loads of people quit the game surely thats less subscriptions for EVE which is a bad thing?
I was just wondering on everyones thoughts...
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Sir Juri
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Posted - 2006.04.21 18:08:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Sir Juri on 21/04/2006 18:10:27
 Originally by: Zhou Yu
Edited by: Zhou Yu on 21/04/2006 18:05:45
Griefing is a perfectly valid ingame style of play and its also encouraged. But sometimes players get very upset when they are ganked and consequently quit the game. So if loads of people quit the game surely thats less subscriptions for EVE which is a bad thing?
I was just wondering on everyones thoughts...
do you notice a drop in subscriptions? im not, dont think CCP does either...
edit; and yeah what DS says. Its not really "griefing".
damn need to make a new sig... |
Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2006.04.21 18:09:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 21/04/2006 18:09:20
I don't see what you mean. Griefing is against the rules.
Of course, that's by the correct definition of griefing, which means "something done with the primary purpose of causing someone grief." Piracy isn't griefing, because they're doing it for their own enjoyment and profit. Scamming isn't griefing--its done for profit also. Ore stealing is done for profit too, and maybe a bit of enjoyment at seeing people's smacktalk. Wardeccing noobs is for some profit but mostly the fun of free kills. But I have never seen plain, direct griefing in my experience in EVE.
If someone quits because something else someone did caused them grief, they need to realize that its a game. I mean, seriously, next thing you know someone will be playing Diablo 2 and yelling that Duriel keeps griefing their Paladin.
[23] Member: Official Forum Warrior
What's with the blue robots? Click my sig.
RAWR!11 Sig Hijack!11 - Imaran |
Jobie Thickburger
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Posted - 2006.04.21 18:10:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Jobie Thickburger on 21/04/2006 18:12:03
I have to admit Honestly I accept Greifing as part of the game...
Ok Real quick, I hate pirates, I want them all to die, Etc Etc... Anti-pirate Flame Here and there,
Honestly though, This game would stink If I didn't have to worry about a real person jumping me and trying to take me out, or worse take my money from me.
Pirates and such Drive me nuts, And I don't like em, but I accept that they are an important part of the game.
Now Greifing on newbie corps, such as wardecing them just for fun, thats just wrong, pick on someone your own size 
*EDIT: Just wanted to say, By Greifing I mean: Unfairly Stacked odds for ganking, Killing me for no good reason, and all other forms of Piracy, Not Harrassment, which is wrong in every way I can think of.
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2006.04.21 18:17:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Jobie Thickburger
*EDIT: Just wanted to say, By Greifing I mean: Unfairly Stacked odds for ganking, Killing me for no good reason, and all other forms of Piracy, Not Harrassment, which is wrong in every way I can think of.
However, that is the wrong definition of griefing. The correct definition of griefing is what CCP says is so.
Griefing is defined by intention, not by how the victim feels.
[23] Member: Official Forum Warrior
What's with the blue robots? Click my sig.
RAWR!11 Sig Hijack!11 - Imaran |
Sir Juri
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Posted - 2006.04.21 18:20:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Sir Juri on 21/04/2006 18:22:06
besides -no pirates, no anti-pirates. No good, no bad. No heaven, no hell. No drama, no passion. No wardec noobs, no wardec vets. No gank, no team. No blob, no corp. No whining, no fun...
PS: if you can come up with other ones then plz.
damn need to make a new sig... |
babyblue
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Posted - 2006.04.21 18:30:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Sir Juri
Edited by: Sir Juri on 21/04/2006 18:22:06
besides -no pirates, no anti-pirates. No good, no bad. No heaven, no hell. No drama, no passion. No wardec noobs, no wardec vets. No gank, no team. No blob, no corp. No whining, no fun...
PS: if you can come up with other ones then plz.
No cookies?
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Sir Juri
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Posted - 2006.04.21 18:32:00 -
[8]
Originally by: babyblue
Originally by: Sir Juri
Edited by: Sir Juri on 21/04/2006 18:22:06
besides -no pirates, no anti-pirates. No good, no bad. No heaven, no hell. No drama, no passion. No wardec noobs, no wardec vets. No gank, no team. No blob, no corp. No whining, no fun...
PS: if you can come up with other ones then plz.
No cookies?
no kisses, no cookies!
damn need to make a new sig... |
Jenny Spitfire
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Posted - 2006.04.21 18:39:00 -
[9]
IMHO, griefing is bad. Makes people cry and leave. I was one of them.
Also, griefing is good. Makes the economy move up and down.
Griefing is part of life. Accept it. 
----------------
RecruitMe@NOINT!
RAWR!11 Sig Hijack!11 - Imaran |
Blind Man
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Posted - 2006.04.21 18:43:00 -
[10]
Griefing, or more the ability to do so, is what keeps eve the game it is. It keeps every situation different and unique, in effect making it much more fun and less boring/repetitive than other games.
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Nyabinghi
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Posted - 2006.04.21 19:39:00 -
[11]
Some of what people call griefing is not really griefing per se, which doesn't mean that griefing isn't present in EVE, it most certainly is. The game certainly isn't balanced between good and evil, you don't have to spend much time in EVE to realize that. CCP has given the green light to rampant piracy and murder and for the most part I don't see much in the way of players who have the power to thwart it doing so (unless of course it directly effects their own corp or section of 0.0).
I'll agree that players creating a "dangerous element" in EVE does add to the overall drama and excitment of the game but taken too far (which I feel is the current state) and the game begins to lose it's appeal to new players and those who want to explore the other areas of the game like mining and trading, etc. I don't think any new player wants to feel like chum for the veteran sharks. And before anyone jumps in and says "But you don't have to go to low sec" remember the game is designed to push players into low sec almost right from the beginning.
I'm still here because I'm curious to see if any light can be brought to the darkness of EVE space.
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fmercury
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Posted - 2006.04.21 19:43:00 -
[12]
No.
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SonOTassadar
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Posted - 2006.04.21 19:47:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Nyabinghi
And before anyone jumps in and says "But you don't have to go to low sec" remember the game is designed to push players into low sec almost right from the beginning.
I'm still here because I'm curious to see if any light can be brought to the darkness of EVE space.
Well, you, as a player, have the option to be an anti-pirate, and make money off of bounties, t2 loot that they drop (honestly I don't know of any pirates that don't use t2 equipment). Every noob has that option, too, it's just that they have to come out in numbers. This game is designed for team play, and part (not all) of winning a battle is sheer numbers.
___________________________
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Yddrac
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Posted - 2006.04.21 20:15:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
[But I have never seen plain, direct griefing in my experience in EVE.
That's odd, because you just described a couple good indirect examples (and one direct example, the joy of hearing smacktalk). By any reasonable measure, any non-consensual pvp that is entered into because it's non-consensual, is greifing. Especially if the target has taken measures to avoid it (e.g. high sec suicide ganking).
The game permits and encourages griefing, and has great appeal to people who enjoy it. I find it really odd that folks feel compelled to claim otherwise.
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Viktor Fyretracker
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Posted - 2006.04.21 20:21:00 -
[15]
its piracy if you are in it for the profit, Griefing if you just want a spot on the killboards.
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Deja Thoris
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Posted - 2006.04.21 20:26:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Yddrac
By any reasonable measure, any non-consensual pvp that is entered into because it's non-consensual, is greifing.
This game is about pvp.
If someone jumps on you mining in lowsec and blows you up you cant scream "Stop griefer!! I'm playing the game the way I choose to play it!!"
Yes, theres other ways to pvp without combat but the above example is the most obvious and closest to peoples hearts.
By any reasonable measure, if you had a damn half clue what EvE was about you would be adapting to the game philosophy instead of denying it and getting peeved and calling people griefers when your pixels get bbq'd.
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Zysco
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Posted - 2006.04.21 20:40:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Zysco on 21/04/2006 20:42:06
Originally by: Dark Shikari
[But I have never seen plain, direct griefing in my experience in EVE.
It all really depends on how you interpret CCP's definition of griefing. For example, when like a year ago SE camped Emperor(I think?) from Rome in a station for something like 3 or 4 days with 10+ med bubbles, that could technically be considered griefing, as he was technically unable to play the game and they only did it to **** him off. On the other hand, it could be not considered griefing, as Rome was their enemy and they were denying an enemy pilot from killing them.
However I'm pretty sure the GMs considered it griefing and they moved him to another station.
But yeah, all those other things DS said (deccing nubs, scamming, corp robbing, smacktalk, etc) is not griefing at all.
New Petition Inc Vid
RAWR!11 Sig Hijack!11 - Imaran |
Wendat Huron
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Posted - 2006.04.21 20:45:00 -
[18]
Jumping targets of oppertunity whilst not griefing is somewhat retarded, I do hope the people that do attract some griefer without a life to haunt them till the end.
The recent state of EVE reminds me of the latest Noob strip, pirates, piwaats, pie-rats, yes we have all sorts of people playing the game...
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Syra Ash
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Posted - 2006.04.21 20:53:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
... _____ isn't griefing, because they're doing it for their own enjoyment....
So if you enjoy it, it's not griefing. Griefing is only griefing if you don't enjoy it.
By the way, can someone post a link to that thread that explains how CCP determines what a player's motivation is at any given moment? I can't find it.
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Yddrac
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Posted - 2006.04.21 21:08:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Yddrac on 21/04/2006 21:11:27
Originally by: Deja Thoris
By any reasonable measure, if you had a damn half clue what EvE was about you would be adapting to the game philosophy instead of denying it and getting peeved and calling people griefers when your pixels get bbq'd.
Peeved? Maybe you were talking to someone else. because I don't recall expressing an opinion about it here.
By CCP's definition (as I understand it), if you're doing something in large part (and not necessarily in totality) because it causes "grief", that's griefing. Thus if you engage in non-consensual PvP because it's non-consensual, that's griefing. I think it's a poor definition, but it is what it is. People who feel compelled to deny the obvious are funny.
It is the game philosophy, it's the folks who insist that it's not who amuse me. Adapt to that.
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Tar om
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Posted - 2006.04.21 21:09:00 -
[21]
There's PvP, consentual or otherwise and then there's being a complete asshat and using EVE as your own personal ***** extension. The sort of person who takes someones eve-life-earnings and then laughs in their face while insulting them would fall in that category. Someone doing the same thing but with a sense of humour and style would not. Frankly the excuse of "I'm Roleplaying a psychopath, I can do what I want n00b" is no excuse. Everyone in EVE is a real human playing the SAME game, and worthy of respect. The people who use EVE as their excuse/opportunity to act like a complete ASBOtard do cause a real problem and should be reminded that they are not actually space ship captains and that if they need a boost to their RL self esteem it should not come at the expense of others ingame.
Please note, I don't claim that this behaviour is limited to pirates and scammers but it is where the majority of it happens (in my experience at least).
--
We are the Octavian Vanguard www.octavianvanguard.net
"The belief in the possibility of a short decisive war appears to be one of the most ancient and dangerous of human illusions." |
Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2006.04.21 21:11:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Syra Ash
By the way, can someone post a link to that thread that explains how CCP determines what a player's motivation is at any given moment? I can't find it.
The point is, they can't. Thus, since its innocent until proven guilty, its nearly impossible to prove someone was griefing unless they state so plainly and simply.
[23] Member: Official Forum Warrior
What's with the blue robots? Click my sig.
RAWR!11 Sig Hijack!11 - Imaran |
Splagada
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Posted - 2006.04.21 21:14:00 -
[23]
there are some other online games who forced a "niceness" rule. so as GMs/admins/whatever cant be there all the time, it was the worst backstabs i had ever seen (was AO in one of the phases of the beta if i remember well)
i like it when you can be an ass. not meaning i'm going to be one, but if you CAN be bad, then it means the good ones are good
dunno if i make sense :p but it helps to "assess" the people
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Member of [AAST] |
Dragon Scion
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Posted - 2006.04.21 21:20:00 -
[24]
The fact that at any time, someone could show up and harass me give the game that edge that makes it feel like an adult game and not a kiddie game.
And the same edge makes me come back and want more.
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Flash Landsraad
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Posted - 2006.04.21 22:39:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 21/04/2006 18:09:20
I don't see what you mean. Griefing is against the rules.
Of course, that's by the correct definition of griefing, which means "something done with the primary purpose of causing someone grief." Piracy isn't griefing, because they're doing it for their own enjoyment and profit. Scamming isn't griefing--its done for profit also. Ore stealing is done for profit too, and maybe a bit of enjoyment at seeing people's smacktalk. Wardeccing noobs is for some profit but mostly the fun of free kills. But I have never seen plain, direct griefing in my experience in EVE.
If someone quits because something else someone did caused them grief, they need to realize that its a game. I mean, seriously, next thing you know someone will be playing Diablo 2 and yelling that Duriel keeps griefing their Paladin.
/signed
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D'onryu Shoqui
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Posted - 2006.04.21 22:40:00 -
[26]
the only greifing in eve in my opinion is those corps that exist in empire space with the sole purpose of declaring wars on smaller corps they have never even met in space before.
all other forms of play i wouldnt say are grief ,its just other mmo's are to carebear
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Neon Genesis
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Posted - 2006.04.21 22:42:00 -
[27]
If you're calling someone killing someone else ingame griefing, you should be playing a less harsh game.
There, i just contributed nothing to your thread |
fmercury
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Posted - 2006.04.21 22:44:00 -
[28]
Originally by: D'onryu Shoqui
the only greifing in eve in my opinion is those corps that exist in empire space with the sole purpose of declaring wars on smaller corps they have never even met in space before.
That's not greifing, it's darwinism
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Lady Gadiva
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Posted - 2006.04.21 22:46:00 -
[29]
I cant remember ever seeing proper griefing tbh. Sure war deccing a noob corp for the simple pleasure of grinding them into dust is unpleasant, but then so are pirates so as far as the Eve universe goes its perfectly acceptable. I suppose just deciding one day to war dec every corp a particular character ever joins for the simple purpose of making eve a crappy experience for them would be proper griefing. But hands up whos ever heard of it happening?
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D'onryu Shoqui
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Posted - 2006.04.21 22:55:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Lady Gadiva
I suppose just deciding one day to war dec every corp a particular character ever joins for the simple purpose of making eve a crappy experience for them would be proper griefing. But hands up whos ever heard of it happening?
we did it once but it was near the start of the game and the guy we did it to emptied all our hangers he had access to then tried to run for ceo to get access to our bpos and minerals
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