Please refrain from such comments and personal insults targeted at the person with whom you do not share the same opinion, cause to any cultured and well mannered group you will just look silly and they will ignore you like I plan on doing.

What the hell are small missile launchers? The medium sized long range launcher is the Heavy Missile launcher. The medium sized sized short range high, damage launcher, is the RLML. Light missiles themselves, are actually a frigate sized weapon system.

In as good as all situations having an effective range over your point range is pretty useless, since at that point the target will just warp off. Both Omens and Raxs can fit cap boosters, in fact they are pretty standard these days. Both are also faster than a Caracal. Both also do almost twice the damage and don't actually have to worry about 35 second reload times, every 40 seconds.

I think you also missed the point above where I just indicated that a frigate as long as it has some sort of tank, will kill a solo RLML Caracal. The only situation in which RLML Caracals are OK, is in small gang engagements. 4-5 shooting the same frigate will probably kill 2-3. But then everyone gets to do a 35 second reload round all together. You better hope there isn't much left on the field or you're going to take some losses there.

At the same time, you could have just taken 4-5 Vexors and your gang composition would have been so much better. You even got RRs sorted, when flying Vexors. Hell, even a gang of rail Moas would have been better.

On the other hand that's just what it is. An Opinion. Your opinion of the Caracal can be whatever you want it to be. That doesn't take away the fact that RLML and arguably the Caldari ships as they are the ones that fit them most prominently, need some attention.

If we get back to the original topic here though, the Caldari cruiser line, I would go as far as saying they are alright. The problem is that half of them have no decent weapon system to fit. There's really no decent medium missile system.

And sure you can fly a Caracal fit with whatever launcher you want, it's just not as good as other cruisers. There are always alternatives. Sure the Caracal can do damage, just not as much as other cruisers. And sure it tanks, just not as well as others. It kites too, but just not as good as others. In a game where everyone min/maxes all the time, you want to fly the best. An average ship, with below average weapons just doesn't cut it, unless you like getting blown up.

You do not have the range on both omen and thorax to reach the caracal in that 24km point range if he kites you correctly, especially thorax.

Yes they can both fit for cap boosters but if they field buffer tank they are slower than the caracal and caracal can always disengage, if they are active tanked and a pilot fits an overdrive injector on a caracal then not even an active tanked omen or thorax can catch you and you can always disengage and keep them in your point range.

I never said that there aren't better options than a caracal for that kind of warfare but it is not at all that underpowered just that if used correctly and with right tactic they are fully capable of being effective.

Ships like omen and thorax are forced into em/therm and kin/therm type damage and can't change it, can be neuted out thus their dps falls to 0, tracking disrupted and depend on sig and traversal, while caracal can shoot even if neuted out, can select damage type and have bigger range than most of the other cruisers, doesn't care about weapon disruptions and traversal. The downsides are that it doesn't have as high dps as omen and thorax have for example.

The thing about caracal's is that you do not even have to go with RLML you can chose HAM's for cruiser fights and come on top both omen and thorax trough kiting them around. Caracals and missiles are at a good spot at the moment and my opinion is still that they do not need changing, but as you said that is just my opinion.

As said please go fight a well fitted cerberus with the same amount of flying skills in it as you have in your heretic and tell us the result.

I have to say I agree that medium missiles are mostly useless, unless you just like pretty explosions. RLML have that 35 sec reload, HM have terrible damage application, and HAM are just meh.

Right, this isn't just about RLML. It's about the entire group of them. Each got nerfed into the ground one after the other and never got any attention again. Which is why I am worried about the state of RLML, will this too, just like HML and HAM be forgotten?

Could you tell me which nerfs did HAMs receive ? Seems I've missed this update during my hiatus.

Why does this even matter. They are fine as a fleet or small gang ship, so what if they aren't the great, or even good for solo pvp situations? There are tons of ships you can use solo, that don't work great in a large gang, how is this any different?

Caldari cruisers are fine, its the pilots that are the issue here.

Did you really look at my killboard? I have done a ton of pvp, but most of it is wormhole and null, as opposed to solo lowsec ****. I don't do tons of solo ****, as I have more fun playing with friends.


Guess what, solo is hard. Get friends or get used to picking fights carefully. It is an mmo and if you pick going solo you will have to a) pick your ship carefully, and b) pick your fight carefully, because not everyone is going to play your way.

Guess what, T1 cruisers are always going to have problems killing ceptors, a T2 ship *meant* to hold them down. That is the way the game is meant to be.

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What makes a good solo ship? Well in general, most "nano" ships that can kill tackle make decent solo ships. If you can't kill the things that move faster than you you will need to pick the fight much more carefully, like breaking them on a gate or fighting them where you can perhaps kill them before their friends reach you. The other option is to tank hard enough to de-agress, but that also requires thinking smart and not taking fights you can't win.


Picking the ship for the space is also important. I know a guy who runs around lowsec in a rail cat, and gets tons of kills, but him taking that to null would be stupid. He takes ceptors for light work there.

Agreed. I dont fly them, but I fight against them. The Caracal is a good ship in many roles. The Moa is a beast in its role. And it is about to get even better...

On the missile thing - sure HM or HAMs have trouble with AB frigates and interceptors and only apply a small amount of damage. But guess what? They apply that minor damage in every situation. Medium Turrets may do OK damage when there is low transversal, but they do ZERO damage to those ships when they are in orbit (unless they are withing 9k and you have double webs - which benefit both weapon systems). It seems like a fair trade-off to me between the two weapon systems.

Anyway - once the Ishtar/sentries get nerfed (and they will be) the Cerb is going to be the new FOTM. Missiles are not in a bad place right now.

Really dont think cerb is going to be fotm again. I mean hams as such are ok, but rlmls suck (mainly due to no ammo changes, wouldnt be so bad if they just got a straight dps nerf but the ammo change on top really cripples the whole class, lets say you shoot a cruiser with rage and a frig shows up, you now have to spend 35secs reloading as youd do 0 damage with rage, by that time you are already tackled and dead).

Heavy missiles need a straight buff (application and dps) and rlmls need the ability to shift ammo in 10 or 5 seconds (while maintaining the same clip size).

I do just fine killing frigs with rlml in a raven which has no bonuses for the weapon. The caracal is easily one of the most adaptableships going and forgiving to new new pilots. There is no problem with it.

Go troll somewhere else. You have a whopping 1 solo kill in a raven, vs a catalyst. Your KB history is pathetic, and so is this troll attempt. Stop shitting up the forums.

Platy don't you know you can get cancer if you post a thread on the eve-o forums.

I just saw missiles fairing really well in the new eden open tournament. There must be something wrong. How could a team win with missiles in this game ?