Okay let's sum up how stupid this thread is.


"I want mining to be worth more faster"

"I think supply should be increased even further, so my own mining is worth even less"

"People are reducing my competition and that sucks"

Okay let's sum up how stupid this thread is.


"I want mining to be worth more faster"

"I think supply should be increased even further, so my own mining is worth even less"

"People are reducing my competition and that sucks"

It is relaxing.

It is relaxing. If you find it boring, take something else up. Go PVP, I can use more buyers for my minerals.

"Make mining fun".

Ive been mining at a large scale, but one thing drags it Down to shite... it takes forever. I dont have 2-4 hrs to mine everyday. Itsa f... drag. Usually i mine out 1 belt With 6 toons within 2-2,5 hrs. (1 orca, 1 freighter, 4 hulks).

From what ive seen, fewer and fewer mines now, it takes just too long. And New miners tend to be ganked as fast, cuz retrivers and covetors are shite easy targets.... so New miners are highrisk for just quit mining due to ganking and a everlast borring repetative mining. Also many miningcorps have trouble With getting miners to meet up when corp mining is issued.

At some point EVE needs to change the mining, either get T3 miners and with T3 orcas to speed Things up, or just reduce minetime or/and increase ore amount.

Something needs to be done to make mining more interesting and fun, cuz it SUCKS :D

I have a few ideas on how to expand mining to make it fit to a wider array of play styles. Check the link in my signature.

How to fix mining:

Give it a minigame everytime the miner cycles akin to exploration. The asteroid now spews "ores" for you to click in space to pick up. It's a fool proof plan that worked with exploration!

Hey the OP complained about mining being boring so let's make it interactive.

lol i think eve screwed up Explorations sites enough, dont let them f... up mining even more With minigames... u jackass

How to fix mining:

Give it a minigame everytime the miner cycles akin to exploration. The asteroid now spews "ores" for you to click in space to pick up. It's a fool proof plan that worked with exploration!

Hey the OP complained about mining being boring so let's make it interactive.

seriously ccp, bloody cookie clicker has more meaningful gameplay than mining

How to fix mining:

Give it a minigame everytime the miner cycles akin to exploration. The asteroid now spews "ores" for you to click in space to pick up. It's a fool proof plan that worked with exploration!

Hey the OP complained about mining being boring so let's make it interactive.

How to fix mining:

Give it a minigame everytime the miner cycles akin to exploration. The asteroid now spews "ores" for you to click in space to pick up. It's a fool proof plan that worked with exploration!

Hey the OP complained about mining being boring so let's make it interactive.

Mining is only fun the 100 first times u do it, then suddenly it hits u in the face With a shovel and u realize wtf ure wasting ur time on.

Well, then just go and do something else .

Interactive but not agonizing pain.

seriously ccp, bloody cookie clicker has more meaningful gameplay than mining

You did say mining is boring and repetitive. How about this then:
Ghost Mines. Same as my idea above but if you fail it will spawn 500 npc catalysts zero on you with the same fitting as a gank cat if you fail the minigame. If you succeed the minigame it'll spew ore to fill the cargo hold of a barge. Alternatively if you run out of time it'll spawn 50 arty nado npc's ready to shoot at you with 5 scram frigs zero on you.

how do you make shooting rocks fun?

Ive been mining at a large scale, but one thing drags it Down to shite... it takes forever. I dont have 2-4 hrs to mine everyday.

How to fix mining:

Give it a minigame everytime the miner cycles akin to exploration. The asteroid now spews "ores" for you to click in space to pick up. It's a fool proof plan that worked with exploration!

Hey the OP complained about mining being boring so let's make it interactive.

so basically turn EVE into star wars galaxies. After all that was generally how mining worked in that game.

Procurers deal with the ganking problem, with minimal impact on yield.

(I agree there need to be changes to mining. But not for the same reasons)

Miners need a vacation. Please remove ore from the game for 30 days. Thanks.

Or we could just hide mines in asteroid fields for the unexpected BOOM!! every now and then.

Did I mention the mines can damage your ship?

Something needs to be done to make mining more interesting and fun, cuz it SUCKS :D

You know, there are other things you can do in Eve besides mining. Maybe it wouldn't be so bad if you weren't trying to micromanage a hulk mining fleet.

I think mining is something you do when you are new -- or when you are at your computer reading about Eve, watching netflix, or even doing real computer work.

The last thing CCP should do is "force" mining to be more interactive.

It is relaxing. If you find it boring, take something else up. Go PVP, I can use more buyers for my minerals.

Something needs to be done to make mining more interesting and fun, cuz it SUCKS :D

At some point EVE needs to change the mining
...
...
Something needs to be done to make mining more interesting and fun, cuz it SUCKS :D

[quote=Spurty]
What would you change to make the process of mining interesting?

i agree it relaxing... if u got the time and dont work, or is home sick... or sitting at work doing shite...

Mining is only fun the 100 first times u do it, then suddenly it hits u in the face With a shovel and u realize wtf ure wasting ur time on.

CCP couldn't care less for mining. If less players mine, the ore price goes up and some new players will get into minig again for ISK.

Also they made some of the mining barges specially for been ganked by low cost frigates. It's content for this high-sec gankers. If you look at the kills of such a ganker you see they went to low sec, got killed a few times there and they got back in high-sec where they feel safe and CCP provided some targets for them.

Ive been mining at a large scale.

i agree it relaxing... if u got the time and dont work, or is home sick... or sitting at work doing shite...

Mining is only fun the 100 first times u do it, then suddenly it hits u in the face With a shovel and u realize wtf ure wasting ur time on.

Mining is about as fun as watching paint dry while listening to grass growing on the radio.

Ive been mining at a large scale, but one thing drags it Down to shite... it takes forever. I dont have 2-4 hrs to mine everyday. Itsa f... drag. Usually i mine out 1 belt With 6 toons within 2-2,5 hrs. (1 orca, 1 freighter, 4 hulks).

From what ive seen, fewer and fewer mines now, it takes just too long. And New miners tend to be ganked as fast, cuz retrivers and covetors are shite easy targets.... so New miners are highrisk for just quit mining due to ganking and a everlast borring repetative mining. Also many miningcorps have trouble With getting miners to meet up when corp mining is issued.

At some point EVE needs to change the mining, either get T3 miners and with T3 orcas to speed Things up, or just reduce minetime or/and increase ore amount.

Something needs to be done to make mining more interesting and fun, cuz it SUCKS :D

Or we could just hide mines in asteroid fields for the unexpected BOOM!! every now and then.

Did I mention the mines can damage your ship?

An addition of a capital miner would be intresting. Assuming the ship beeing limited to low and null sec it would perhaps also bring more industry out there. As for the mining mechanics of this ship there should be a possibility to go into some sort of siege mode, from where it can acctually tractor in entire asteroids. An active pilot could perhaps use mining lasers together with the asteroid scanner to locate richer veins in the asteroid and trimm the "dead rock". With a long enough siege timer and high enough profit potential this might encourage some fun mining fleets and pirate roams to attack those.

We have Syphon Units so why not Syphon Lasers for the minerals in the ships-¦ bays?

New equipment that mines twice as fast.

Except Concord considers it illegal, you get a suspect flag for activating it.

So:

- More fun in highsec

- More profit in low, null, wormhole space

they made some of the mining barges specially for been ganked by low cost frigates.

It's content for this high-sec gankers. If you look at the kills of such a ganker you see they went to low sec, got killed a few times there and they got back in high-sec where they feel safe and CCP provided some targets for them.

you've just devalued mining for everyone, just to gank miners in high sec.

not quite sure this is actually a solution to anything.

How did you come to that conclusion?


'Everyone' is too generic. So let's assume people mine for 3 reasons:

1) enjoyment

2) make ISK

3) need minerals to build stuff


Now let's try to imagine how the option of illegal mining equipment would impact these 3 groups of people (remember, it's an option, you can still use the current equipment just fine):

1) no impact

2) more ISK if you're willing to 'up your game', less ISK if you're not. in other words, you can make more money if you're willing to 'outplay' your competitors. I assume this would make mining 'more fun' for some players at least

3) the most complex impact to imagine imo. I'm thinking the most significant impact would be people in low/null/wh mining more often. so more pvp opportunities maybe? would also give a boost to local industry maybe? many players are asking for that. finally, highsec ISK-making may indeed be reduced in favor of low/null/wh, maybe some players would 'migrate' from 'crowded' to 'underpopulated' regions, could be a good thing overall for the game

supply and demand. you've just increased supply which drops the price. there's nothing mystical about it.

also, your idea hasn't solved a single issue.

You're oversimplifying, a common mistake people make when attempting to analyze complex systems.

For example, you can't teleport minerals at zero cost. So more minerals mined and consumed in null could cause less demand for minerals (and/or equipment) in Jita.

This COULD result in lower prices in highsec, but... less demand + less profit with the 'safe old mining equipment' could also result in less people mining in highsec so also LESS supply in highsec.

So less demand + less supply = who knows what would happen to highsec prices?


OP was suggesting mining become less time consuming and more interesting, I suggested faster but riskier mining equipment...

except your argument falls down at supply = demand. that simply isn't true.

It is, unless you're assuming EVE players stockpile minerals indefinetly.

Every single unit of mined Veldspar either becomes Trit and then an in-game asset, or gets stockpiled.

CCP would have the figures, but I'm assuming total mineral stock fluctuations are much lower than total mineral consumption.

So supply = demand + stock increase (or - stock decrease) but stock increase/decrease is much lower than demand (and evens out over time), so yeah supply = demand.

I may be wrong, though, do you have different figures?

if i start mining more, that doesn't make people want to buy more minerals.
if i start mining less, that doesn't make people want to buy less minerals.

supply does NOT equal demand.

Erm... yeah, supply/demand equilibrium doesn't apply to Dave Stark mining because he feels like it.

But it does apply to the EVE universe as a whole, unless there are enough people mining 'for the lulz' (and willing to give away the minerals for 0 ISK) to cover total demand.

ships don't magically require less minerals because people are mining less.
ships don't magically require more minerals because people are mining more.

Because you've got it all mixed up! It's this way:

Most people would mine less if less minerals were needed.
Most people would mine more if more minerals were needed.

Except, of course, people that mine 'just for the lulz'. Which % of EVE minerals would you say are mined by people who just enjoy mining no matter the profit (or opportunity cost)?

*EDIT: as a matter of fact, it IS also true that some people would buy that additional ship if more minerals were available, but the opposite is more straightforward to understand

Because you've got it all mixed up! It's this way*:

Most people would mine less if less minerals were needed.
Most people would mine more if more minerals were needed.

Except, of course, people that mine 'just for the lulz'. Which % of EVE minerals would you say are mined by people who just enjoy mining no matter the profit (or opportunity cost)?


*EDIT: as a matter of fact, it IS also true that some people would buy that additional ship if more minerals were available, but the opposite is more straightforward to understand

Mining does need to change. When I started playing, I mined. Many do. But I wouldn't dream of mining now. It's boring, unprofitable and risky. Not the kind of risky I like either.

Why would anyone create a task that is so mind numbingly boring that only the insane would do it at their keyboard, and then condemn and punish those who do it the only way it can be sanely done by making them easy targets for suicide ganking? The whole system is broken from the ground up.

I would like to want to mine. What ever happened to ring mining?

Miners need a vacation. Please remove ore from the game for 30 days. Thanks.

one thing EVE could do, was to make mining like PL

because mining is boring?

mining should be the least appealing aspect of eve
nobody wants to play "afk mining on-line"

because mining is boring?

Watching the swarms on high-sec Icebelts is pretty disgusting tbh, and does indeed need a change of some sort.

you think that's disgusting, go and look at the swarms of pimped out battleships when there's only 1 high sec incursion up.

it's truly revolting.

You can't afk Incursions though. Not really the same thing, is it.

you've clearly never taken a 1400 mach in to an incursion.
you can be about as afk as a miner in one of those.

because mining is boring?

mining should be the least appealing aspect of eve
nobody wants to play "afk mining on-line"

Indeed I have not.

But if you are seriously trying to compare Incursions to AFK miners swarming all over Icebelts like flies on ****, I have no further interest in discussing with you.

Indeed I have not.

But if you are seriously trying to compare Incursions to AFK miners swarming all over Icebelts like flies on ****, I have no further interest in discussing with you.

How do AFK miners do this?

Arrive in system.
Target Ice.
Activate Lazorz.
Set timer for when total yield=cargo capacity.
AFK. (Anywhere between around 15mins to 30mins)
Timer is up.
Empty Ice into larger vessel.
Retarget Ice if necessary.
Set timer.
AFK.

Until all the Ice is gone.

Its almost comical to watch the occasional hapless NPC Pirate arrive and be overwhelmed by the countless drones orbiting a dozen Mackinaws.

if they're doing all of that, then they're clearly not afk.

What part of the clearly marked "AFK" sections did you think are "clearly not afk"?

The activity does not require presence at the keyboard and the action required between AFKing for those durations, is measurable in a handful of seconds. Certainly less than 30s.

Trying to defend AFK Mining

Tell us, how many mining ships do you run simultaneously?

Are you afraid of your personal interests being in jeopardy here?

Tell us, how many mining ships do you run simultaneously?

Are you afraid of your personal interests being in jeopardy here?

1 and it's not even mining, because incursions make more isk than about 6 accounts would if i were mining.

i haven't defended afk mining once, i've just pointed out how laughably terrible your arguments are. you're trying to claim there are large swarms of afk miners, that simply doesn't make sense. if there are large swarms of them, things don't last long enough to be afk, if they are afk then they're clearly not mining so it's not an issue.

Come out to the High-sec Icebelts and see for yourself.

.....

The more I read from you, the more apparent it is that you actually have no idea what you are talking about.

Then you clearly have no idea what you are talking about.

Come out to the High-sec Icebelts and see for yourself.

How I described it, is exactly how it happens.
A large group of people involved in an activity which requires about 30s actions for every 30mins worth of AFKing.

They are large swarms. They are afk. The fields last hours to deplete in most cases, because though Ice Bets got reduced, they are still enormous.

The more I read from you, the more apparent it is that you actually have no idea what you are talking about.

I zoomed in and realized it was a wad of no less than 60 Mackinaws, all undocked simultaneously. All the same Corp. All toons founded the same day. They turned in lockstep and warped off in a wad together to the ice belt, and had it cleared out in about 20 minutes, leaving nothing for anyone else. My communiques in Local to them were not answered.

Disgusting.

Then its 30s per 15mins of afk on a pimp Mackinaw.
And 30s is generous, its more like 5s to offload to a vessel and retarget if necessary.
(But ofc you just let the 30s slide since it is in your interest)

And yes, we can spend all night here revealing your vested interest, though its obvious already.

As to what Krixtal pointed out, that is a problem stemming from the same root.

And yes, it takes hours for even a substantial fleet to finish off an ice field.
The 20min example from Krixtal is an incident that I personally havent observed.

False. The reason for proliferation of multiboxing miners is because it is so easy to do and requires very little activity from even one player. The risks are so small as to be negligeable. The characters also have very narrow and relatively quick skill requirements. The profits are excellent and each character can PLEX itself easily over the course of a month.

Its you who are lying when you try to present the problem with mining as anything else than the following:
Its too easy to do, while doing actually very little at all (ie:afking), the risks are negligeable, the profits are very good for 5s of activity every 15mins, and the characters quick to train and can fund their own plex.

It is exactly the ease of running a multibox mining fleet due to LOW INTERACTIVITY REQUIREMENTS (ie: 5s activity per 15mins required per account, rest can be afk) which makes it plausible. The profits are more than enough to plex the accounts and the effort required is tiny compared to any other simultaneous multibox activity.

except afk ratting requires both less interaction, and produces more profit.
so again; why aren't they undocking 60 ships at once?

So again, where in high-sec does afk ratting produce more profit than ice mining?

so now you're changing your argument and saying it's only because it's high sec not because it's low interaction?

So now your changing your argument that afk-multiboxx ratting is more profitable than ice-mining in high sec?

no, i'm not changing my argument. afk ratting is more profitable than high sec ice mining, i stated that from the outset.

Are you saying that high sec afk multibox ratting is more profitable than high sec afk multibox ice mining?

are you going to keep spewing random questions and hope we forget that you've been systematically wrong on every point?

Just answer the question.

In your view, is high sec afk multibox ratting more profitable than high sec afk multibox ice mining?

how about you read my posts for my views? i'm not going to repeat myself.

Just answer the question.

In your view, is high sec afk multibox ratting more profitable than high sec afk multibox ice mining?

in which language would you like me to repeat myself? it seems you didn't understand the english version of the sentence.

no, i'm not changing my argument. afk ratting is more profitable than high sec ice mining, i stated that from the outset

You havent answered the question.

You said this:



That is NOT what I have asked you.

I asked you this SPECIFICALLY.
In your view, is high sec afk multibox ratting more profitable than high sec afk multibox ice mining?

The difference is highlighted in bold. It would seem perhaps you simply misread or overlooked that distinction, for which I will give you the benefit of the doubt and restate the question once more.

Debate club arguments like in the last few pages ruin the forums. They suffocate any coherent discussion or exchange of information.

I agree. I tried, but he was uncooperative and resorted to stonewalling and other breaches.

Ive tried to make amends by providing some figures above to inform on what is actually being discussed here.

no, i didn't. you fabricated arguments i didn't make after i systematically corrected all of your inaccuracies.

I'm okay with ship prices tanking....
besides, mining needs to be much more profitable. Ship prices keep going up and up and up because nobody wants to do it because it arguably takes so darn long. I personally would wanna see mining yields and holds doubled

How to fix mining:

Give it a minigame everytime the miner cycles akin to exploration. The asteroid now spews "ores" for you to click in space to pick up. It's a fool proof plan that worked with exploration!

Hey the OP complained about mining being boring so let's make it interactive.

My only inaccuracy was that a Mackinaw takes 30mins to fill its hold.
You added T2+Implants to the equation and reduced that to 15mins.

I've debunked all your own ridiculous fabrications such as the pathetic attempt at comparison to afk-ratting here:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4329504#post4329504

You are a liar as well as deliberately dishonest in discourse.

Ive been mining at a large scale, but one thing drags it Down to shite... it takes forever. I dont have 2-4 hrs to mine everyday. Itsa f... drag. Usually i mine out 1 belt With 6 toons within 2-2,5 hrs. (1 orca, 1 freighter, 4 hulks).

From what ive seen, fewer and fewer mines now, it takes just too long. And New miners tend to be ganked as fast, cuz retrivers and covetors are shite easy targets.... so New miners are highrisk for just quit mining due to ganking and a everlast borring repetative mining. Also many miningcorps have trouble With getting miners to meet up when corp mining is issued.

At some point EVE needs to change the mining, either get T3 miners and with T3 orcas to speed Things up, or just reduce minetime or/and increase ore amount.

Something needs to be done to make mining more interesting and fun, cuz it SUCKS :D

It is exactly the ease of running a multibox mining fleet due to LOW INTERACTIVITY REQUIREMENTS (ie: 5s activity per 15mins required per account, rest can be afk) which makes it plausible. The profits are more than enough to plex the accounts and the effort required is tiny compared to any other simultaneous multibox activity.

Roughly that's about 1hr of AFKING and 20s of activity per day (assuming a 30 day month) to PLEX the account.

1hr of AFK. 20s of activity, per day, to PLEX.

Everything beyond that, is profit.

Now where it gets real, is if you are doing this with say 6 accounts.
The thing that happens there, is that that doesnt mean you have to spend 6 hrs afk mining to plex them, no, its still just the same 1 hr per day. Only your necessary activity gets multiplied. So instead of spending 5 sec every 15 mins unloading/retargetting, you spend 35s total. 35s, and then AFK for another 15mins.

So in 1hr of AFK and 2min 20s of activity, per day, you PLEX 6 (SIX) accounts, simultaneously.

Everything else, is profit, and from 6 miners pulling 4.8Mil per 15mins, that adds up substantially.

If, for example, you afk mined for 2hrs per day, you could PLEX a total of 12 (TWELVE) accounts in one month.

Go ahead. Show me someone who can afk-rat for 12 PLEX a month, on 2hrs a day AFK and 2mins20s activity.

(Goes without saying these figures are concerned only with the actual and specific activity of high-sec afk multibox ice mining)

I have a real problem with your attitude toward multi-boxing. If you ever had multi -boxed you would know this is not an "AFK" activity. The bottom line is multi-boxing is not against the EULA nor is it even discouraged by CCP.

bump

Welcome back, thread.

i agree it relaxing... if u got the time and dont work, or is home sick... or sitting at work doing shite...

Mining is only fun the 100 first times u do it, then suddenly it hits u in the face With a shovel and u realize wtf ure wasting ur time on.

Mining should not be that entertaining since it's the lowest player skill (not "pilot" skill) way to earn ISK. Mining is there to take you out of the initial ISK rut as a brand new player (depends on your play style), and to drive to do riskier and more exciting things in EVE.

In some ways, mining being boring is by design.

And as far as risks go.. go mine Veldspar in your Venture in a rookie system and I doubt anyone would want to gank you. The ganks come in with greater risk/reward mining (as it should).

/Fÿ¡