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Advanced frigate vs. simple cruisers

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Cherubior	Posted - 2006.04.23 13:26:00 - [1] Hi! Can anyone tell me why does it worth the huge mones to buy an AF instead a cruiser for 1/3-1/4 price? Cherubior
ALPHA12125	Posted - 2006.04.23 13:29:00 - [2] Edited by: ALPHA12125 on 23/04/2006 13:30:03 Originally by: Cherubior Hi! Can anyone tell me why does it worth the huge mones to buy an AF instead a cruiser for 1/3-1/4 price? Cherubior its not worth it a rax/rupture/maller/caracal rapes them all the only reason would be that they are slightly more agil for raids but that is it
ResearcherZero	Posted - 2006.04.23 14:11:00 - [3] I want a second opinion.
Atom HeartMother	Posted - 2006.04.23 14:13:00 - [4] Originally by: ALPHA12125 Edited by: ALPHA12125 on 23/04/2006 13:30:03 Originally by: Cherubior Hi! Can anyone tell me why does it worth the huge mones to buy an AF instead a cruiser for 1/3-1/4 price? Cherubior its not worth it a rax/rupture/maller/caracal rapes them all the only reason would be that they are slightly more agil for raids but that is it tbh in a af i could take all of these proved they wenrt ubar nos setups
M3ta7h3ad	Posted - 2006.04.23 14:37:00 - [5] Is that with or without using tech 2 ammo? Personally if I went up against a thorax in a hawk or harpy, and both of us were using tech 2 ammo... I think I'd die pretty damn fast. :) Unless I was sniping of course :D ----- If you kill all the wolves, your gonna end up with a crapload of bunnies, and by bunnies I mean stupid people Eve & Linux Woot!
Toy	Posted - 2006.04.23 14:39:00 - [6] You have several reasons... Economic: anyone can make a basic cruiser, so there is lots of supply but only about 20 producers make the advanced frigates... Skill based: once people get to frigate 5, they can ALL train for the advanced frigate as this will save on skills since you can skip the entire medium gun, cruiser skill tree... People who want a alt for fast frigates will generally do this, which in turn means more demand for the frigates... Resistances: The resistances on the advanced frigates and their smaller signature radius lets them tank battleships in 0.0 and in missions. Fitted and skilled right, a harpy, for example, can tank three gurista bs easily. They can't kill them easily, but tanking them is half the battle. Only a very very few and well skilled/equipped basic cruisers can tank multiple bs. I hope this helps.
Spartan239	Posted - 2006.04.23 14:44:00 - [7] Originally by: Atom HeartMother Originally by: ALPHA12125 Edited by: ALPHA12125 on 23/04/2006 13:30:03 Originally by: Cherubior Hi! Can anyone tell me why does it worth the huge mones to buy an AF instead a cruiser for 1/3-1/4 price? Cherubior its not worth it a rax/rupture/maller/caracal rapes them all the only reason would be that they are slightly more agil for raids but that is it tbh in a af i could take all of these proved they wenrt ubar nos setups ill give you a t1 cruiser vs a ass frig ahm I post on the forums for MaxSuicide that makes me cool? Originally by: Dark Shikari Dragonball Z> all other anime
Malthros Zenobia	Posted - 2006.04.23 15:34:00 - [8] Edited by: Malthros Zenobia on 23/04/2006 15:37:22 Originally by: Atom HeartMother tbh in a af i could take all of these proved they wenrt ubar nos setups Or skilled pilots. If they use T2 eq/ammo, you can have problems. A blasterax will shred an AF as well, and those 5 t2 med droms will be a bonus to help pwn it. A well-skilled, experienced pilot in a cruiser can/will be able to beat an AF. Or a n00b in a caracal with extenders/hardeners and 5 t2 heavies with precisions will do just as well. Originally by: Dark Shikari Istvaan Shogaatsu's ego, when combined with a veldspar asteroid, would create 500 titans. Too bad he's never mined. RAWR!11 Sig Hijack!11 - Imaran
Dark Shikari	Posted - 2006.04.23 15:38:00 - [9] An AF will lose against any well fitted cruiser. My Caracal usually takes them out in 2 or 3 volleys. However, AFs can actually be better than cruisers in PvP, due to their high resists against certain enemies and the fact that NPCs don't NOS you/etc. [23] Member: Official Forum Warrior What's with the blue robots? Click my sig. RAWR!11 Sig Hijack!11 - Imaran
Aziza	Posted - 2006.04.23 15:40:00 - [10] Originally by: ALPHA12125 Edited by: ALPHA12125 on 23/04/2006 13:30:03 Originally by: Cherubior Hi! Can anyone tell me why does it worth the huge mones to buy an AF instead a cruiser for 1/3-1/4 price? Cherubior its not worth it a rax/rupture/maller/caracal rapes them all the only reason would be that they are slightly more agil for raids but that is it You have no clue about AF. ------------------------- Thank you
Wizie	Posted - 2006.04.23 15:51:00 - [11] Originally by: Aziza Originally by: ALPHA12125 Edited by: ALPHA12125 on 23/04/2006 13:30:03 Originally by: Cherubior Hi! Can anyone tell me why does it worth the huge mones to buy an AF instead a cruiser for 1/3-1/4 price? Cherubior its not worth it a rax/rupture/maller/caracal rapes them all the only reason would be that they are slightly more agil for raids but that is it You have no clue about AF. neither do you.
Meeko Gloom	Posted - 2006.04.23 16:42:00 - [12] It all depends on the pilot, ship, and situation. PVE: AF > Crusier PVP: It is tricky here, if I was fight a Tech II frig in a crusier I would use my Vexor for the Nos. I have faced several Tech II frigs with my Vexor. AF are easier imo, Ive pwned a retribution, enyo and ishkur, they just simply cant break the tank. BUT... there was one fight where I got totaly raped by a crow. I dont know if it was a the Domination web or the Tech II missiles, but I got owned. -------------------------- Guns dont Kill People Drones Do
Helene Troi	Posted - 2006.04.23 17:08:00 - [13] Edited by: Helene Troi on 23/04/2006 17:09:05 Originally by: Cherubior Hi! Can anyone tell me why does it worth the huge mones to buy an AF instead a cruiser for 1/3-1/4 price? Cherubior Ahem... Because my Vexor warped into lvl 3 Downing the Slavers part 2 and had to leave very quickly minus it's drones, (it was even on fire) My Jaguar got to stay there and blow everything up with its autocannons!!! Hope that helps... The price of freedom is eternal vigilance...
KayaYautja	Posted - 2006.04.23 17:35:00 - [14] Like everyone else said, it depends on skills and equipment. I love my harpy and kitted right, fighting a T1 cruiser, with the pilot using cruiser sized weapons, i think i could beat him. Simple sig radius versus sig resolution/explosion radius. To top it off, you have speed and higher resists. Technically you don't have to fit resistance mods, clearing up space for whatever else will help you beat him. -------------------------- I'm the Omega baby!
KayaYautja	Posted - 2006.04.23 17:35:00 - [15] Like everyone else said, it depends on skills and equipment. I love my harpy and kitted right, fighting a T1 cruiser, with the pilot using cruiser sized weapons, i think i could beat him. Simple sig radius versus sig resolution/explosion radius. To top it off, you have speed and higher resists. Technically you don't have to fit resistance mods, clearing up space for whatever else will help you beat him. -------------------------- I'm the Omega baby!
Foomanshoe	Posted - 2006.04.23 17:48:00 - [16] Personally, if im pvp'ing and want a anti-frig ship, i would take AF over the cruiser. Mostly because 10-20 mil isnt that much imo, and i like the sig res and tracking of small guns. Cruisers are pretty good since the T1 overhaul, but you get killed pretty fast from bs fire in one of them. And in a frig you generally dont have to worry about BS fire as long as you keep moving and dont mwd straight at a bs. In a duel, id say the cruiser has the upper hand. And if your wallet is tight id stick to the cruiser. AFs are fun though and handly little killers. _______________________________________________ Deadspace For Dead space! Originally by: Oveur To the nerfmobile!
Aziza	Posted - 2006.04.23 17:49:00 - [17] Originally by: Wizie Originally by: Aziza Originally by: ALPHA12125 Edited by: ALPHA12125 on 23/04/2006 13:30:03 Originally by: Cherubior Hi! Can anyone tell me why does it worth the huge mones to buy an AF instead a cruiser for 1/3-1/4 price? Cherubior its not worth it a rax/rupture/maller/caracal rapes them all the only reason would be that they are slightly more agil for raids but that is it You have no clue about AF. neither do you. I do, actually. And unless your rax/rupture/maller ( caracal is different story) specifically fitted to kill my enyo or ishkur -- you pretty much dead. You also pretty much a dead meat against retribution, but infortunatly there is no way to stop you wrapping out. ------------------------- Thank you
Gronsak	Posted - 2006.04.23 18:04:00 - [18] Originally by: Atom HeartMother tbh in a af i could take all of these proved they wenrt ubar nos setups ill take that challange, t1 crusier vs AF. ill have no nos at all! ill also add in 10mil isk if u win, mail me ingame if ur up for this -------------------Sig----------------------- Decrease blaster CPU useage Decrease Hybrid cap useage Balance all weapon systems DO IT SOON
Gronsak	Posted - 2006.04.23 18:05:00 - [19] Originally by: Aziza I do, actually. And unless your rax/rupture/maller ( caracal is different story) specifically fitted to kill my enyo or ishkur -- you pretty much dead. You also pretty much a dead meat against retribution, but infortunatly there is no way to stop you wrapping out. my general thorax setup vs your AF. my setup had no nos! win and ill give u 10mil isk, loose and i get your loot :) -------------------Sig----------------------- Decrease blaster CPU useage Decrease Hybrid cap useage Balance all weapon systems DO IT SOON
Dark Shikari	Posted - 2006.04.23 18:22:00 - [20] Edited by: Dark Shikari on 23/04/2006 18:23:02 I will give 50 million ISK to any AF pilot who can beat my caracal without using ECM. I promise I won't use NOS. [23] Member: Official Forum Warrior What's with the blue robots? Click my sig. RAWR!11 Sig Hijack!11 - Imaran
xeom	Posted - 2006.04.23 18:22:00 - [21] i fly minie AF,and can tell you right now id rather my rupture any day for pvp. 5000 Armor with almost all resistances on 50% or higher(xcept explosive).About the same DPS,but more once we drop drones into the equation. Altho for PvE ill probably use my wolf anyday over the ruppy. _____________________ CCP where are our t2 shield power relays?
madaluap	Posted - 2006.04.23 18:27:00 - [22] Originally by: Gronsak Originally by: Aziza I do, actually. And unless your rax/rupture/maller ( caracal is different story) specifically fitted to kill my enyo or ishkur -- you pretty much dead. You also pretty much a dead meat against retribution, but infortunatly there is no way to stop you wrapping out. my general thorax setup vs your AF. my setup had no nos! win and ill give u 10mil isk, loose and i get your loot :) lol a cruiser is so gonna kick a AF ass, waaaaaay back when 1600mm plate and small neutron was for cool kids , i wtf owned a enyo in less than 10 seconds and i mean LESS, dont have the logs anymore, but that was cool btw these days with heavy electron 2 i think i can own a AF even faster because of more falloff _________________________________________________ no sig :(
Krulla	Posted - 2006.04.23 18:31:00 - [23] Any shortrange AF versus any shortrange cruiser means dead AF. End of story. Respect the Domi. Or else. SIG HIJACK!!11 RAWRR!!1- IMMY
Gronsak	Posted - 2006.04.23 18:38:00 - [24] Edited by: Gronsak on 23/04/2006 18:39:46 Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 23/04/2006 18:23:02 I will give 50 million ISK to any AF pilot who can beat my caracal without using ECM. I promise I won't use NOS. crusiers > AF but cara seems a bit ** with its low DPS it seems to be on paper the only one a AF could possible beat if i where a betting man id say a gistii harpy would stand a fair chance Originally by:** Olivin Not sure about all AF, but talking Enyo: Caracal = No Rax = No Rupture and maller = Pretty high chance to pwn it in Enyo Although, I can imagine that using t2 ammo, it's possible to kill not experienced rax pilot as well. especially if he will forget about his drones. Olivin an enyo would not beat a rupture nor a maller, the only one it would stand a chance against is a caracal -------------------Sig----------------------- Decrease blaster CPU useage Decrease Hybrid cap useage Balance all weapon systems DO IT SOON
Olivin	Posted - 2006.04.23 18:38:00 - [25] Edited by: Olivin on 23/04/2006 18:38:18 Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 23/04/2006 18:23:02 I will give 50 million ISK to any AF pilot who can beat my caracal without using ECM. I promise I won't use NOS. Not sure about all AF, but talking Enyo: Caracal = No Rax = No Rupture and maller = Pretty high chance to pwn it in Enyo Although, I can imagine that using t2 ammo, it's possible to kill not experienced rax pilot as well. especially if he will forget about his drones. Olivin
Ras Blumin	Posted - 2006.04.23 18:48:00 - [26] Originally by: Olivin Rupture = Pretty high chance to pwn it in Enyo How? I'm talking regular rupture setup here (ie. mwd, nos, plate etc). A dirty job - Released 2006.01.02
Valea Silpha	Posted - 2006.04.23 19:00:00 - [27] I think its worth pointing out that most of the set-ups you people are talking about on the cruisers, especially the maller and thorax, are almost certainly plated with small guns. In that situation its not exactly a fair fight. Now if you are strictly limited to things that are meant to be fit on cruisers (ie cruiser guns, plates, extenders) it all becomes a lot closer, since your max armor and shields are a LOT lower and your tracking sucks. I think thats whats being missed in the whole theoretical debate. Assault frigates 'should' be able to get in close and beat tracking, or stay back and use optimal bonuses agains those short range punchy cruisers. In practice, most of the really uber cruiser set-ups use a vast amount of nos, small guns, oversized extenders/plates or all of the above. In effect, they have the firepower and resists of an AF, with a load more HP.
Olivin	Posted - 2006.04.23 19:07:00 - [28] Edited by: Olivin on 23/04/2006 19:07:05 Originally by: Ras Blumin Originally by: Olivin Rupture = Pretty high chance to pwn it in Enyo How? I'm talking regular rupture setup here (ie. mwd, nos, plate etc). I thought everyone talking about no Nos or any other specific setup ( painters, frig guns, etc)? Anyway, I was thinking about sniper enyo using 150 t2 rails and Spike. But again, I could be horribly wrong. Olivin
smallgreenblur	Posted - 2006.04.23 19:09:00 - [29] My rupture works fine with mwd, 220mm vulcan IIs, a nos or two and an 800mm plate. Not been worried by an af yet. And whoever said it's 'unfair' to fit small guns on a cruiser need to play eve more. Personally i don't because i rather like the dps and range of my autos, but you can fit whatever you can get away with in eve. In general, a cruiser will win against an af. sgb 'This is going to be expensive...' C6 is recruiting ... visit www.c6-eve.com or join channel c-6 for details.
Phelan Lore	Posted - 2006.04.23 19:21:00 - [30] Originally by: Olivin Edited by: Olivin on 23/04/2006 19:07:05 Originally by: Ras Blumin Originally by: Olivin Rupture = Pretty high chance to pwn it in Enyo How? I'm talking regular rupture setup here (ie. mwd, nos, plate etc). I thought everyone talking about no Nos or any other specific setup ( painters, frig guns, etc)? Anyway, I was thinking about sniper enyo using 150 t2 rails and Spike. But again, I could be horribly wrong. Olivin A rupture is faster than an enyo, even if it fits a MWD. ________________ ~Phelan Lore Your isk has become my isk, by way of my actions...

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