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Sagari T'Man	Posted - 2006.04.28 18:52:00 - [1] Edited by: Sagari T''Man on 28/04/2006 18:53:02 Its starting to spread, no longer can we be safe in even 1.0 systems, as our industrial ships get blown up en masse by these pirates. Targeting just about any cargo that is enough to justify the loss of their ship. We demand protection from CONCORD to enable us to do business once again. Its FAR to easy to destroy our ships and we are left with no options to defend us against these suicide pilots. The perps get a lowly security hit and is left to kill us another day. WE DEMAND A HARSHER PUNISHMENT FOR THESE PERPS!!! Sagari T'man
HippoKing	Posted - 2006.04.28 18:55:00 - [2] owned sigs of the 23/24/25 hijack just as well -eris yarrrr, i shall retake my sig -HippoKing Not a chance, our 1337 sig haXx0r sk1llz are too powerful! - Wrangler Ho-Ho-Hooooooo, Merry Saturday!11 - Immy Yo ho ho and a bottle of BReeEEEEeee.... - Jacques ARRRRRRchambault Stop spamming with "QFT" >:\|. - Teblin Who pwned who? ~kieron RAWR!11 Sig Hijack!11 - Imaran SIG PARTY!!! -Falke
Spartan239	Posted - 2006.04.28 18:55:00 - [3] Originally by: Sagari T'Man We demand protection from CONCORD to enable us to do business once again. Its FAR to easy to destroy our ships and we are left with no options to defend us against these suicide pilots. WE DEMAND A HARSHER PUNISHMENT FOR THESE PERPS!!!1111ONEONE111!!! Sagari T'man Freighters and t2 indys stop moaning, eve is a game with risk, adapt or die Originally by: Tamora its not the skills that make the eve player... its the smack that back him up
Pika Eadesso	Posted - 2006.04.28 18:56:00 - [4] hands Sagai a flame resistant suit While I kind of see where you're coming from, the best answer is to stay out of Jita ;) High Sec pirating has been around scince forever and while I don't condone it, theres not you can do other than avoid high trafic systems, get an escort, or don't fly a Hauler.
Sagari T'Man	Posted - 2006.04.28 18:57:00 - [5] Edited by: Sagari T''Man on 28/04/2006 18:57:46 Hardly, risk is for 0.0 space , not 1.0 empire space. I expect the police to make us able to conduct proper business here. Freighters and T2 iterons take time and cost money to fly, not all can run them out of the box. Escort???? how on earth can you escort against someone who will kill your Iteron in seconds.. Its not the dying thats the problem, its the perps, they should get a MUCH higher sec hit for this kind of act.
Koto Rae	Posted - 2006.04.28 18:59:00 - [6] How many times does it have to be said? THERE IS NO SAFE SPACE ! High-security space is only SAFER than low-security. Don't fly afk with expensive stuff in cargo. Use a tougher ship, use a scout, use an escort.
Dark Shikari	Posted - 2006.04.28 18:59:00 - [7] Edited by: Dark Shikari on 28/04/2006 18:58:38 Its not hard to defend yourself if you use your brain. Try NOT putting 100 million in a ship worth 500k that has no tanking equipment? [23] Member: Official Forum Warrior What's with the blue robots? Click my sig.
Sagari T'Man	Posted - 2006.04.28 19:01:00 - [8] Edited by: Sagari T''Man on 28/04/2006 19:03:01 I think you don't get it, its the penalty thats not scary enough, I want atleast a -2 or -3 sec hit for such an act. Cargo was t2 building blocks, worth a little over 100 mill btw. And NO, putting hardners won't save our asses and then we can't transport anything :(
Mobius	Posted - 2006.04.28 19:01:00 - [9] one simple answer QUIT TRANSPORTING EXTREMELY HIGH END ITEMS IN HAULERS use cruisers frigs with mwd's
Spartan239	Posted - 2006.04.28 19:03:00 - [10] Originally by: Sagari T'Man Hardly, risk is for 0.0 space , not 1.0 empire space. I expect the police to make us able to conduct proper business here. I wanna be totaly safe in 1.0 space, eve is like rl the police shoudl protect us from teh ebil doers I dont wanna have to spend time and money ensuirng that im safe, althong in the previous sentence I wated eve to be more like rl Escort???? how on earth can you escort against someone who will kill your Iteron in seconds Its not the dying thats the problem, its the perps, they should get a MUCH higher sec hit for this kind of act. escort is kinda a fair point, but a scout dosent hurt and that wornt hurn piwats, you can go from -10 to -2 in about a week of npcing Originally by: Tamora its not the skills that make the eve player... its the smack that back him up
Kylania	Posted - 2006.04.28 19:05:00 - [11] Originally by: Sagari T'Man Edited by: Sagari T''Man on 28/04/2006 19:03:01 I think you don't get it, its the penalty thats not scary enough, I want atleast a -2 or -3 sec hit for such an act. Cargo was t2 building blocks, worth a little over 100 mill btw. And NO, putting hardners won't save our asses and then we can't transport anything :( Putting those blocks in a Viator sure would help. Or move 'em in a fully tanked battle ship. Or setup courier missions (so they can't get scanned) and move 'em with alts. Or take different routes. Or setup instas beforehand. Or bring logistic ships with you, permalocked and repping your indy. Or contract freighters to haul for you. There's a lot of things you're not trying that would help you avoid this type of problem. -- Lil Miner
Arkanor	Posted - 2006.04.28 19:05:00 - [12] Edited by: Arkanor on 28/04/2006 19:05:33 Originally by: Pika Eadesso don't fly a Hauler. Seriously, I ship valuable items in a tanked battlecruiser To date I have not been targeted ________________________________________________ Originally by: Kadrush I want a Death Star to mine Veldspar Yes I made the pic before I saw this
Manic Maynard	Posted - 2006.04.28 19:06:00 - [13] Originally by: Sagari T'Man Edited by: Sagari T''Man on 28/04/2006 18:57:46 Hardly, risk is for 0.0 space , not 1.0 empire space. I expect the police to make us able to conduct proper business here. You realize that in Real Life much like Concord the police are simply a clean up crew right? They do not prevent crime so much as catch criminals after the fact.
Sagari T'Man	Posted - 2006.04.28 19:07:00 - [14] Edited by: Sagari T''Man on 28/04/2006 19:09:33 Edited by: Sagari T''Man on 28/04/2006 19:09:13 Hehe a scout?? What am I scouting for? They don't relly show up you know..and on the most heavily used gates, there are tons of ships all the time. Also, we don't fly AFK and while we will take precautions, but I think those who carry out these acts get a -bit- easy off the hook. I think you would feel sad, if someone blew up your car and the police let the perps go with a warning.
Kylania	Posted - 2006.04.28 19:16:00 - [15] Originally by: Sagari T'Man I think you would feel sad, if someone blew up your car and the police let the perps go with a warning. If exotic cars had a recent history of being blown up at that intersection, and I knew the police wouldn't do anything, and I drove through that intersection anyway, without trying other methods of getting my car somewhere else, I might be sad but I wouldn't be able to blame the perps or the police for me driving my expensive car through that intersection. -- Lil Miner
bumcheekcity	Posted - 2006.04.28 19:18:00 - [16] Originally by: Kylania Originally by: Sagari T'Man I think you would feel sad, if someone blew up your car and the police let the perps go with a warning. If exotic cars had a recent history of being blown up at that intersection, and I knew the police wouldn't do anything, and I drove through that intersection anyway, without trying other methods of getting my car somewhere else, I might be sad but I wouldn't be able to blame the perps or the police for me driving my expensive car through that intersection. Lolz. Yup, QFT. Seriously, CCP HAVE released protection. It's called the t2 industrial. Now, STFU and stop complaining because you got ganked while flying stuff unprotected. If you want to play a no-risk game, please for for WoW. Or minesweeper. -- bumcheekcity Interseted in skills? http://geeksonline.co.uk/eve/includedfiles/xmlparse.php
Eximius Josari	Posted - 2006.04.28 19:18:00 - [17] Try investing more into your safety. Sov 2.1 T3 BS
Snake Jankins	Posted - 2006.04.28 19:19:00 - [18] Any specific place were I can find these guys. I'm in the mood to try out some t1 industrial fittings. ___________ 'Only ships can be assembled, this is a Frigate.'
Cadadon	Posted - 2006.04.28 19:20:00 - [19] A little more than a warning, Concord will destroy the ship that attacked you. And the only ships that could hurt you fast enough to be worth using, are HACs and BSs...so the attackers are gonna lose about 100mill at least. I think that this is a viable job, and I'm glad there are people doing it. I am not someone who would pirate, but I'm glad its there, maybe it'll make people think. CCP won't do anything to stop it, as there are game mechanics that you can use to avoid this. They even released ships for this exact job, please use them before you come whinging on the forums. --- They're -- They are Their -- The Smith's are selling their house There -- Look over there
Eximius Josari	Posted - 2006.04.28 19:22:00 - [20] Originally by: bumcheekcity If you want to play a no-risk game, please for for WoW. Or minesweeper. Are you nuts? Minesweeper has permadeath. One wrong move and it's all over. Sov 2.1 T3 BS
Snake Jankins	Posted - 2006.04.28 19:23:00 - [21] Edited by: Snake Jankins on 28/04/2006 19:23:57 Originally by: Cadadon A little more than a warning, Concord will destroy the ship that attacked you. And the only ships that could hurt you fast enough to be worth using, are HACs and BSs...so the attackers are gonna lose about 100mill at least. I think he talks about gangs in suicide kestrels, destroyers etc. ___________ 'Only ships can be assembled, this is a Frigate.'
Verone	Posted - 2006.04.28 19:24:00 - [22] another one ganked VETO MEMBER MOVIES
Snake Jankins	Posted - 2006.04.28 19:26:00 - [23] Originally by: Verone another one ganked Damn, now I have the queen song 'Another one bites the dust' in my head. ___________ 'Only ships can be assembled, this is a Frigate.'
Dolly Parton	Posted - 2006.04.28 19:29:00 - [24] Originally by: Sagari T'Man Edited by: Sagari T''Man on 28/04/2006 19:03:01 I think you don't get it, its the penalty thats not scary enough, I want atleast a -2 or -3 sec hit for such an act. Cargo was t2 building blocks, worth a little over 100 mill btw. And NO, putting hardners won't save our asses and then we can't transport anything :( sucks you lost T2 stuff, i just started and i know not to do what you and your guys are doing. If this is a run your going to use a lot. Take a shuttle with some projectiles. Jettison a projectile not all of it. bookmark the can to make your insta. it will take you a few times to get it right but its well worth it. i have a system on my route, 2 gates only, it's always camped ouit with PvP pirates. 1 day i went and made instas in the system when they weren't there, since then they have not gotten one shot off on me, i warp literaly inside the stargate entrance. problem solved, for me not them. try that and organize them so when you are doing the run its instas all the way (which means no autopilot) but i am new so you probably know this all ready and your going to ignore me. your loss. new post please
Sagari T'Man	Posted - 2006.04.28 19:31:00 - [25] Yes, I've been taught a valuable lesson now. I got this eerie feeling some here are just defending their livlyhood. Well I hope CONCORD will act up and increase sec hits for the future, so atleast you will be sentenced to an extra week of 0.0 ratting to make up for it. Sagari
Leandro Salazar	Posted - 2006.04.28 19:35:00 - [26] The battleship suiciders get full insurance, so they only lose about 30 mil. That is pretty much nothing. And T2 indies would be a lot more viable if you didn't need industrial skill 5. That is quite a ***** to train just for safe hauling. Personally I always put stuff worth more than 30 mil in MWD frigs or battleships, but even if it does not affect me I find the ease of suicide piracy ridiculous. They should at the very least get not insurance if their ship is blown up by concord. ___________________________________ Evacuate? In our moment of triumph?
Mrmuttley	Posted - 2006.04.28 19:49:00 - [27] Originally by: Sagari T'Man Yes, I've been taught a valuable lesson now. I got this eerie feeling some here are just defending their livlyhood. Well I hope CONCORD will act up and increase sec hits for the future, so atleast you will be sentenced to an extra week of 0.0 ratting to make up for it. Sagari Nope just pointing out that you have the tools to protectyourself. If you shoose not to use them then that is your choice. 100 Mill stuff in an Iteron V? Wouldn't catch me doing it anywhere near Jita ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ This sig space for sale. Need something advertised? Reasonable Rates.
Sagari T'Man	Posted - 2006.04.28 19:52:00 - [28] Sigh, no instants does not work :( The time it takes for your hauler to warp from gate is NOT shortened by instants. Its the risk vs reward I want to get to here..as some pointed out, they can easily kill an iteron that carries, what..40-50 mill and make a profit on it... sigh
Bora Chinua	Posted - 2006.04.28 19:57:00 - [29] Originally by: Sagari T'Man Sigh, no instants does not work :( The time it takes for your hauler to warp from gate is NOT shortened by instants. Its the risk vs reward I want to get to here..as some pointed out, they can easily kill an iteron that carries, what..40-50 mill and make a profit on it... sigh The iteron would be cloaked on the other side until it starts to align, right? So if the frig in the safe spot is already in alignment, then it's just the time it takes to go to 75% speed. Nano's and a MWD would help to get to speed faster. On which side of the gate do people usually get ganked? Aproaching or warping? I've never had to deal with this before, so I'd like to know also. Thanks, Bora.
Sagari T'Man	Posted - 2006.04.28 20:12:00 - [30] You get smacked either way...but your most vulnerable leaving the gate. Cloaking does no good as your speed drops to jack, you cannot reach warpout speed until you decloak.
Chadawahee	Posted - 2006.04.28 20:21:00 - [31] transported a 945 mil bpo through empire yesterday, just stay sharp, use a proper ship and you cant get ganked in empire, never. transporting 100+ mil in a hauler is asking for it
Deja Thoris	Posted - 2006.04.28 20:25:00 - [32] Originally by: Sagari T'Man I got this eerie feeling some here are just defending their livlyhood. Sagari And I thought they were just against the game being dumbed down for the likes of you
Prestis	Posted - 2006.04.28 20:42:00 - [33] High-sec piracy is the best thing to happen to EVE in a long time.
Crackhead Bob	Posted - 2006.04.28 21:02:00 - [34] Originally by: Sagari T'Man You get smacked either way...but your most vulnerable leaving the gate. Cloaking does no good as your speed drops to jack, you cannot reach warpout speed until you decloak. Wow, so many suggestions yet you accept none of them. This game might not be for you if you choose to ignore every extremely viable option (and there are tons of them!) and clearly continue complaining without really trying them out.
Breed Love	Posted - 2006.04.28 21:05:00 - [35] Just shut up and cancel your account. ------ Originally by: Gazon In any case, the whole affair had one lasting effect: Awarding Stormriders the label of ridiculous drug addicts with a tendency towards utterly foolish actions.
Xelios	Posted - 2006.04.28 21:13:00 - [36] How about instead of asking CCP to force changes onto everyone in the game, you just equip some tanking equipment on your ship when transporting hundreds of millions of isk in assets? 1.0 space isn't supposed to be completely safe, that's been the number 1 rule since beta. Signature removed. -Zhuge ([email protected]) Woot.
M4RY J4NE	Posted - 2006.04.28 21:13:00 - [37] Your cargo is just ISK, if the value > ISK cost of the operation then you are a target. I suggest you heed the advice given to you in this post. And no, i do not think we need a harsher punishment.
Kadrush	Posted - 2006.04.28 21:32:00 - [38] Originally by: Arkanor Edited by: Arkanor on 28/04/2006 19:05:33 Originally by: Pika Eadesso don't fly a Hauler. Seriously, I ship valuable items in a tanked battlecruiser To date I have not been targeted Just finishing my comment that ended up in your signature. Your signature ROCKS ARKANOR!!!
Yd Landark	Posted - 2006.04.28 22:14:00 - [39] Originally by: Arkanor Edited by: Arkanor on 28/04/2006 19:05:33 Originally by: Pika Eadesso don't fly a Hauler. Seriously, I ship valuable items in a tanked battlecruiser To date I have not been targeted I prefer a half-tanked BC with a BSHIP afterburner <<<---Campain for a Rendered Picture... //--------------------------------------------- Renting This Space for ISK //---------------------------------------------
Miss Overlord	Posted - 2006.04.28 22:18:00 - [40] hello its called .... transport ships u know with battleship armour battleship shields put some resistnaces and armour reppers on and hello high sec transport is all safe.
Nyabinghi	Posted - 2006.04.28 22:42:00 - [41] Originally by: Manic Maynard Originally by: Sagari T'Man Edited by: Sagari T''Man on 28/04/2006 18:57:46 Hardly, risk is for 0.0 space , not 1.0 empire space. I expect the police to make us able to conduct proper business here. You realize that in Real Life much like Concord the police are simply a clean up crew right? They do not prevent crime so much as catch criminals after the fact. ...and the criminals go to jail away from society and in extreme cases the electric chair, over n done with. But EVE unlike RL the criminal can circumvent punishment via an alt or if they are using their main then at most they get a slap on the wrist and they're off to commit more crimes minutes later. EVE needs an effective criminal justice system and an adequate police force to keep the universe from slipping into complete anarchy and lawlessness. Concord aint cuttin it and if the police can't deal with the level of crime in a system or region then the local Empire military should be stepping in. As recent times have shown EVE is in fact falling under a dark cloud of increasingly unimpeded criminal activity. Where once Concord was feared now they are becoming the laughing stock of Empire space. Do I think CCP should do something about it, yes, because if anything I don't think they ever intended for players to use their alts to circumvent certain game mechanics. But lets say CCP couldn't care less, well then I guess that puts the ball entirely in the peoples court. Unfortunatly it doesn't seem like anybody wants the task of a neighborhood watch. Either CCP needs to have a look at the current game dynamic or EVE citizens need to start policing systems themselves. Until then no space is safe space. I make cool banners for ISK.
Deja Thoris	Posted - 2006.04.28 22:54:00 - [42] Originally by: Nyabinghi or EVE citizens need to start policing systems themselves. Until then no space is safe space. It's always been this way. Look after yourself and stop expecting game mechanics to be your safety net. Anyway, this is a game. Dont mention ridiculous things like the electric chair
Cypherous	Posted - 2006.04.28 23:03:00 - [43] High Sec Piracey Problem My answer is, what problem, nowhere in EVE is safe, if you want complete safety play something like WoW, in EVE you take risks undocking, if thats not for you then sorry to see you leave. O RLY?! --Jorauk Way cooler than Jorauk - Cortes
EaglesFire	Posted - 2006.04.28 23:05:00 - [44] Originally by: Leandro Salazar And T2 indies would be a lot more viable if you didn't need industrial skill 5. That is quite a ***** to train just for safe hauling. It takes 30 days to train Indy lv5. No big deal. Even my alt has indy lv5, and he is only 42 days old. Work smarter, not harder. "Knowledge is power, and the uninformed SHALL be punished!"
Nyabinghi	Posted - 2006.04.28 23:11:00 - [45] Originally by: Deja Thoris Originally by: Nyabinghi or EVE citizens need to start policing systems themselves. Until then no space is safe space. It's always been this way. Look after yourself and stop expecting game mechanics to be your safety net. Anyway, this is a game. Dont mention ridiculous things like the electric chair Corps/Alliances take care of their own. There is no general policing of EVE space ATM and I welcome someone to show me otherwise. As for the "chair" I was merely making the point that in RL a murderer for example is removed from society in a way where there would be little or no chance of that person ever being able to harm people in the society further. In EVE such a restriction doesn't exist so the general populus is always under the same threat from the same criminal, perpetually unimpeded. I make cool banners for ISK.
Ranged Airman	Posted - 2006.04.29 00:01:00 - [46] Find the perps, figure out their play habits and war-dec or hire mercenaries... Also... don't haul overly expensive stuff in a relatively inexpensive ship unless you know exactly what you're doing.
The Judas	Posted - 2006.04.29 00:06:00 - [47] Originally by: Cadadon A little more than a warning, Concord will destroy the ship that attacked you. And the only ships that could hurt you fast enough to be worth using, are HACs and BSs...so the attackers are gonna lose about 100mill at least. I think that this is a viable job, and I'm glad there are people doing it. I am not someone who would pirate, but I'm glad its there, maybe it'll make people think. CCP won't do anything to stop it, as there are game mechanics that you can use to avoid this. They even released ships for this exact job, please use them before you come whinging on the forums. Not true at all. A raven thats insured with t1 fittings will cost a lot less. A group of four vexor's w/ sentry drones and a 1600 will hit for around 10k damage before getting pwned and cost you less than 10 million.
Cremter Ragnarok	Posted - 2006.04.29 00:30:00 - [48] Originally by: Sagari T'Man Moved from General Discussions - Uly Edited by: Sagari T''Man on 28/04/2006 18:53:02 Its starting to spread, no longer can we be safe in even 1.0 systems, as our industrial ships get blown up en masse by these pirates. Targeting just about any cargo that is enough to justify the loss of their ship. We demand protection from CONCORD to enable us to do business once again. Its FAR to easy to destroy our ships and we are left with no options to defend us against these suicide pilots. The perps get a lowly security hit and is left to kill us another day. WE DEMAND A HARSHER PUNISHMENT FOR THESE PERPS!!! Sagari T'man Heres how to avoid this: put 200 BM's in with whatever youre carrying. by the time the cargo scan loads you'll be gone, and they wont risk blowing you up if they dont know your cargo. ------------------- uhh.. what does this button do?
Sagari T'Man	Posted - 2006.04.29 00:58:00 - [49] The BM idea is good :) As someone noted here, you can deliver enough damage to even blast a T2 industrial out of the sky if need be, and the investment is VERY VERY low compared to what you get. If we are to do business we need a certain modicum of safety, or else there is no business. And yes, we already have 0.0 space thank you, go there. We need higher sec hits for those who want to committ these acts! Sagari
Ninjja	Posted - 2006.04.29 01:11:00 - [50] Honestly, you would be wise to do more research on where you are mining. I do some mining at times as well, but you can be sure that i choose systems that arent very busy and mine in a ship capable of holding off an enemy long enough for concord to kill em. But there is no place thats 100% safe really. Eve isnt intended for mindless space sucking by people who lik eearning isk while watching cartoons. Clicky: Eve Most Wanted List
vile56	Posted - 2006.04.29 01:12:00 - [51] Originally by: Sagari T'Man The BM idea is good :) As someone noted here, you can deliver enough damage to even blast a T2 industrial out of the sky if need be, and the investment is VERY VERY low compared to what you get. If we are to do business we need a certain modicum of safety, or else there is no business. And yes, we already have 0.0 space thank you, go there. We need higher sec hits for those who want to committ these acts! Sagari so what happens when a new player attacks someone on accident they get gimped before they even start the game. new idea
Niques Leutre	Posted - 2006.04.29 02:36:00 - [52] Exequerors are a nice alternative. The durability of a cruiser, but can easily hold 1500 m3 with expanders and decent skills. But I agree, industrials are highly vulnerable. Perhaps a solution would be have a patch increase their defence? Toughen them to the point they can withstand attacks for a decent time, but not to the point they're viable for use in combat zones. ___________________________________ The fiercer the foe, the sweeter the salvage. The fatter the wallet, the bigger the smile.
Drasked	Posted - 2006.04.29 02:59:00 - [53] ****.
Cordt	Posted - 2006.04.29 03:23:00 - [54] Originally by: Sagari T'Man Hehe a scout?? What am I scouting for? They don't relly show up you know..and on the most heavily used gates, there are tons of ships all the time. What you're scouting for is a group of guys sitting on top of a gate in the usual ships. Kestrels, Caracals, Ravens. Anything of this sort should be suspicious. You should be transporting valuable **** in a ship that is not easy to blow up. Try a battlecruiser loaded with 1600s and active hardeners, or a battleship set up similarly. There is no reason you should get ganked in empire unless you make stupid mistakes. I applaud these guys. They do the work of Darwin.
Gordan Freeman	Posted - 2006.04.29 03:53:00 - [55] Fit guns and jammers and disruptors and wait for the suicider to jump you and pwn him im sure you can make your badger rdy to take on the world!! Passari will never be safe again
Tyranical Teabagger	Posted - 2006.04.29 04:23:00 - [56] Or you can just fit your indies full of extenders and plates so you survive while the the ganker gets popped.....then you go take his can. :)
Ktak Ente	Posted - 2006.04.29 07:07:00 - [57] Edited by: Ktak Ente on 29/04/2006 07:10:56 Originally by: Spartan239 Originally by: Sagari T'Man We demand protection from CONCORD to enable us to do business once again. Its FAR to easy to destroy our ships and we are left with no options to defend us against these suicide pilots. WE DEMAND A HARSHER PUNISHMENT FOR THESE PERPS!!!1111ONEONE111!!! Sagari T'man Freighters and t2 indys stop moaning, eve is a game with risk, adapt or die This is adapting. it is entirely consistent within a roleplaying game that the victims of crime seek better protection from the authorities. Its politics not moaning and it would be nice if people putt some thought into their response instead of the knee-jerk accusations of 'moanin' or insipid injunctions to 'adapt or die'. Feelin a bit crotchety this am - sorry
klok718	Posted - 2006.04.29 09:12:00 - [58] Much like a bodybuilding midget in winter eve can be cold, short and hard. i sugest you adapt and move on. Next time you get blown up in high sec think to yourself "what could i have done diffrent" rather than OmGwTfHaXor!!!one!!11! complain compalin compain cry cry cry* How about we give haulers 10000 more hull points? would that make you happy? how about anybody with more than X ISK worth of stuff in there cargohold can never be destroyed? huh, would that make you happy??? How about i dont post anymore while sloppydrunk mabye? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I am pathetic; 2 of NostradumusÆ quatrains revolve around me getting podded.
Sagari T'Man	Posted - 2006.04.29 10:10:00 - [59] Hehe I like it how I'm now supposed to move our stuff with battleships too.. I mean, we do a LOT of runs to the tradehubs, I feel that I have better things to do than to double that because I have to put freaking armour and hardners into my ship. While I understand there is risk on EVE, I feel that CONCORD should give us more satisfying protection, so that we can do business in a safe environment, and not a freaking warzone. Either we have LAW in the region or we do not, and either CONCORD enforces this or they do not, but we gotta know about it. Heck, I think there is less risk in 0.0 ratting nowadays. Sagari
terje	Posted - 2006.04.29 10:47:00 - [60] i have no problem with high sec piracy, done it myself many times, although i think ccp could introduce a system which would make life more interesting for both the ppl being ganked and the gankers, something like the criminal party getting barred from that system for a period of time, or once the criminals ships destroyed by concord there being a chance of the pod being incarcerated by concord until either a fine is paid to the victim amouting to the value of the cargo destroyed or the crim has served his time. maybe the victim being able to sell the kill rights or have the option to execute the pod. but i do think there should be an element of chance at the moment its too cut and dry.
Kinsy	Posted - 2006.04.29 11:21:00 - [61] Medium. Shield. Extender. Passive. Hardeners. And you live.
MonwrathDisortium	Posted - 2006.04.29 12:01:00 - [62] I so very wish I could go to high sec, I would love to kill haulers by the dozen. I will tell you that anyone who has accidentially jumped into high sec with a pirate char knows that CONCORD is doing a fine job. I can Tank any 3 player Battleship for long periods of time but CONCORD will nearly instapop my Battleship. The mechanics are fine, Except us pirates should be able to fight concord and take high sec systems over. That would be great fun. [URL=http://imageshack.us][/URL]
Deja Thoris	Posted - 2006.04.29 12:19:00 - [63] Originally by: Sagari T'Man so that we can do business in a safe environment, and not a freaking warzone. Either we have LAW in the region or we do not, and either CONCORD enforces this or they do not, but we gotta know about it. You want it all dont you? You want the cops to pitch up and shoot the perp dead before you are harmed! Business in a warzone? Why, thats exactly what it is. Tens of thousands of heavily armed ships all flying around. And there you are adding to the carnage no doubt by selling weapons or modules to help sow death and destruction. Strange it's ok for you to manufacture mods to kill peeps but object when they are used for the purpose they are designed for... Buy a freaking t2 hauler. I fly a couple of billion ISK a month in and out of Jita in a t2 hauler and I've had one person lock and scan me. I stopped my ship and told him to try his best. He declined. You just want to afk in a fat indy full of expanders and moan because the option that provides the least effort and thought gets you killed. Boo hoo
KayaYautja	Posted - 2006.04.29 13:28:00 - [64] Train for a covops ship, best haulers around, no one can see you! I use my buzzard for hauling almost all my stuff, but then i'm usually running in and out of 0.0 so theres a difference -------------------------- I'm the Omega baby!
Lo3d3R	Posted - 2006.04.29 13:51:00 - [65] sigh how about using a container to put your stuff in ... ____________________
cpskatan	Posted - 2006.04.29 14:16:00 - [66] Originally by: Lo3d3R sigh how about using a container to put your stuff in ... yeah you even get more room for cargo!! wtf people you need to think when play EVE
B0rn2KiLL	Posted - 2006.04.29 17:05:00 - [67] this is eve's cycle of life. instead of ****ing about, do something. --- new sig, Hijack it and ill eat u. Imaran hands B0rn2KiLL a fork - Come get some!11
Beastoria	Posted - 2006.04.29 17:55:00 - [68] Originally by: Cadadon A little more than a warning, Concord will destroy the ship that attacked you. And the only ships that could hurt you fast enough to be worth using, are HACs and BSs...so the attackers are gonna lose about 100mill at least. I think that this is a viable job, and I'm glad there are people doing it. I am not someone who would pirate, but I'm glad its there, maybe it'll make people think. CCP won't do anything to stop it, as there are game mechanics that you can use to avoid this. They even released ships for this exact job, please use them before you come whinging on the forums. The loss from using a BS is 20mil tier 2 bs = 100mil insurance + fitting = 40mil ships blows up leaves 20mil left out ... but that is why they have cargo scanners and only attack those with high value cargo --------------------------------------------------
MercedesBenz	Posted - 2006.04.29 18:50:00 - [69] Originally by: Dark Shikari Its not hard to defend yourself if you use your brain. Try NOT putting 100 million in a ship worth 500k that has no tanking equipment? /Signed
Waenn Ironstaff	Posted - 2006.04.30 00:55:00 - [70] Another suggestion: Get a corpmates with Support cruisers like an Osprey to recharge your shields or repair your armor since you're too lazy to do the tanking yourself.
Shaemell Buttleson	Posted - 2006.04.30 10:18:00 - [71] Have to say I keep hearing about this method of gaining funds and am intrigued. I saw MrMorph's film when he fitted a plated Geddon with smartbombs and was surprised how much damage Concorde did on his ship in so little time. So my question is how are these guys doing it. For starters is there more than 1 Raven, how long do their tanks last against Concorde etc etc? Also on the subject of security rating it wouldn't take many actions like this to be KOS in 1.0 systems. So how do you/they keep this up? Do you use disposable alts specifically trained or do you have a few sessions of NPC'ing in 0.0 to regain your sec?
HippoKing	Posted - 2006.04.30 10:28:00 - [72] Originally by: Shaemell Buttleson So my question is how are these guys doing it. For starters is there more than 1 Raven, how long do their tanks last against Concorde etc etc? one raven, one volley, one dead indy. raven lasts a short time - probably long enough to fire a second, and maybe a third volley. Fully extended at a guess. I know tank has suicided a bustard in jita in a t2 torp fitted raven.
TheKiller8	Posted - 2006.04.30 10:38:00 - [73] Get a friend with a t2 bpo to make some bpc's and fly those around empire. Let's see how long these *****s last suiciding worthless haulers. .: Click 2 See My Flash Animations :.**
Miss Overlord	Posted - 2006.04.30 11:09:00 - [74] a) high kill areas the t2 BPC idea will make em loose ships with minmal gains. b) giant sec container with complx password (they will be left with a t2 BPO in a locked sec container they may get the loot but left with something worth billons they cant access - u can send em an evemail each day going haha u tossers c) battleship (need 30-40 fully damage BS to take down 1 in the time it takes concord now 30-40 battleships going pop isntworht it unless its somethink like the hulk BPO. Which hasnt moved from those R and D stations.
Shaemell Buttleson	Posted - 2006.04.30 11:49:00 - [75] Originally by: TheKiller8 Get a friend with a t2 bpo to make some bpc's and fly those around empire. Let's see how long these *******s last suiciding worthless haulers. Hehe you read my mind.
Taketa De	Posted - 2006.05.01 00:26:00 - [76] Originally by: Miss Overlord b) giant sec container with complx password (they will be left with a t2 BPO in a locked sec container they may get the loot but left with something worth billons they cant access - u can send em an evemail each day going haha u tossers What's to keep them from repackaging the container? --- The Advanced Drone Control Panel.
Mak'shar Karrde	Posted - 2006.05.01 00:55:00 - [77] Real life has Armoured Transports too... People would laugh if an Ice-Cream truck were robbed while transporting ú100 million. Yeah, Industrial V takes a while to learn. You have to ask yourself, will I still be whining in a months time? If so, it's probably worth it.
Icome4u	Posted - 2006.05.01 04:56:00 - [78] Originally by: Verone another one ganked YARRRRR, I don't notice him........shrugs
Maximillian Pele	Posted - 2006.05.01 05:21:00 - [79] As a hauler pilot myself - LEARN FROM YOUR MISTAKES. You will never be 100% safe, but you can always take steps to dramatically reduce the chance of falling victim to any kind of pirate attack. People in this thread have offered good advice. Also visit the Crime and Punishment section: a real eye opener on how pirates really work. Eve isn't designed with your personal comfort and safety in mind. You are in a arms race with 1,000s of other players. Suicide ganking only works when the profits are greater than the cost. Make yourself a non-profit target and you will probably be safe (but there are no 100% guarantees). Even when you do everything right you can still be ganked if your opponent is smarter or luck is against you.
Telemicus Thrace	Posted - 2006.05.01 06:31:00 - [80] Originally by: Sagari T'Man Moved from General Discussions - Uly Edited by: Sagari T''Man on 28/04/2006 18:53:02 Its starting to spread, no longer can we be safe in even 1.0 systems, as our industrial ships get blown up en masse by these pirates. Targeting just about any cargo that is enough to justify the loss of their ship. We demand protection from CONCORD to enable us to do business once again. Its FAR to easy to destroy our ships and we are left with no options to defend us against these suicide pilots. The perps get a lowly security hit and is left to kill us another day. WE DEMAND A HARSHER PUNISHMENT FOR THESE PERPS!!! Sagari T'man I'll admit I only read the first page but this has all been said before. I'm not a pirate. I am amongst other things a trader. I have in the past responded to these threads with numerous contructive and cost free techniques to stop yourself getting suicide ganked in hi-sec. Use the search funtion if you want to do something other than whine about it because I'm not repeating myself again. What I would like to say is yes, this practice is on the rise. I have even seen it spread to Rens. This is entirely the fault of lazy hauler pilots who refuse to take advice, who refuse to actually take responsibilty for their actions and refse to take simple steps to protect themselves. It is because of you and pilots like you that pirates actually make a living doing this and such profits ae attracting them to trade hubs all over the place. There is a positive side to this, sometimes the cargo gets destroyed and pilots like me that have some savvy about moving cargo can profit by replacing it. I don't blame pirates for being pirates, I blame the ones presenting the pirates with a steady flow of defenceless and easy targets. >> RECRUITING <<
maGz	Posted - 2006.05.01 08:36:00 - [81] Originally by: Cremter Ragnarok Originally by: Sagari T'Man Moved from General Discussions - Uly Edited by: Sagari T''Man on 28/04/2006 18:53:02 Its starting to spread, no longer can we be safe in even 1.0 systems, as our industrial ships get blown up en masse by these pirates. Targeting just about any cargo that is enough to justify the loss of their ship. We demand protection from CONCORD to enable us to do business once again. Its FAR to easy to destroy our ships and we are left with no options to defend us against these suicide pilots. The perps get a lowly security hit and is left to kill us another day. WE DEMAND A HARSHER PUNISHMENT FOR THESE PERPS!!! Sagari T'man Heres how to avoid this: put 200 BM's in with whatever youre carrying. by the time the cargo scan loads you'll be gone, and they wont risk blowing you up if they dont know your cargo. 200+ BMs in your cargo will affect the whole system you're in, and has therefore been deemed an exploit. The gankers might not get your ship, but they can still petition you... ______________________
Nicole KholdStare	Posted - 2006.05.01 11:25:00 - [82] Edited by: Nicole KholdStare on 01/05/2006 11:25:50 Quote: 200+ BMs in your cargo will affect the whole system you're in, and has therefore been deemed an exploit. The gankers might not get your ship, but they can still petition you... Could you link me to a Gm reply where this is stated please? Or maybed someone can reply here? Because if it would be an exploit then all those people buying bms in hubs are violating game rules - and there are are lot of them. But yeah if you have 100's of millions of gear to transport and you are (somehow) unable to skill up for a T2 Indy (It's only 1 lvl5 skill ppl c'mon :D) then you fully deserve to get ganked. In fact I think you should get the tutorial lady come up on your screen and slap you too. Mercenary Contracts Available! Good rates - lethal service
Telemicus Thrace	Posted - 2006.05.01 11:39:00 - [83] Originally by: Nicole KholdStare Edited by: Nicole KholdStare on 01/05/2006 11:25:50 Quote: 200+ BMs in your cargo will affect the whole system you're in, and has therefore been deemed an exploit. The gankers might not get your ship, but they can still petition you... Could you link me to a Gm reply where this is stated please? Or maybed someone can reply here? Because if it would be an exploit then all those people buying bms in hubs are violating game rules - and there are are lot of them. But yeah if you have 100's of millions of gear to transport and you are (somehow) unable to skill up for a T2 Indy (It's only 1 lvl5 skill ppl c'mon :D) then you fully deserve to get ganked. In fact I think you should get the tutorial lady come up on your screen and slap you too. Buying BMs to use as BMs is fine, using 200+ BMs to lag out a system to save your ship is an exploit. This came up in general discussion just last week. Feel free to use the search function. Besides, there are more than enough ways to protect your cargo. If you do nothing else set a courier mission to yourself and carry it shrink wrapped. Nothing scans through shrink wrap. >> RECRUITING <<
Kioku	Posted - 2006.05.01 11:56:00 - [84] Couldn't you fit a shield tank and some ECM? seems it would work well... Also you could transport in an exqurer(sp) With a few skills those things can hold a lot and are faster to warp and have a better natrual tank.
maGz	Posted - 2006.05.01 12:10:00 - [85] Edited by: maGz on 01/05/2006 12:10:45 Originally by: Kioku Couldn't you fit a shield tank and some ECM? seems it would work well... Also you could transport in an exqurer(sp) With a few skills those things can hold a lot and are faster to warp and have a better natrual tank. ECM wont work as the pirate needs to agress before you can jam him... And having done suicide-ganking myself; 1 volley takes out most T1-haulers, making jamming kinda moot ______________________
Berrik Radhok	Posted - 2006.05.01 14:02:00 - [86] Originally by: Sagari T'Man Hehe I like it how I'm now supposed to move our stuff with battleships too.. I mean, we do a LOT of runs to the tradehubs, I feel that I have better things to do than to double that because I have to put freaking armour and hardners into my ship. While I understand there is risk on EVE, I feel that CONCORD should give us more satisfying protection, so that we can do business in a safe environment, and not a freaking warzone. Either we have LAW in the region or we do not, and either CONCORD enforces this or they do not, but we gotta know about it. Heck, I think there is less risk in 0.0 ratting nowadays. Sagari Then go rat in 0.0 and stop flying big pinatas full of isk around. pod jumps to corp office in Jita Sig removed, lacks Eve-related content - Cortes
343Guiltyspark	Posted - 2006.05.01 14:15:00 - [87] Originally by: Koto Rae How many times does it have to be said? THERE IS NO SAFE SPACE ! High-security space is only SAFER than low-security. Don't fly afk with expensive stuff in cargo. Use a tougher ship, use a scout, use an escort. Does it really matter if they are AFK or not? Just comes down to either sitting there watching your ship blow up, or come back to find your ship was blown up.
343Guiltyspark	Posted - 2006.05.01 14:18:00 - [88] Originally by: Berrik Radhok Then go rat in 0.0 and stop flying big pinatas full of isk around. Quote: Forgive me if I'm wrong, but isn't that what industrials are for, to haul stuff around?
343Guiltyspark	Posted - 2006.05.01 14:20:00 - [89] Originally by: Chadawahee transported a 945 mil bpo through empire yesterday, just stay sharp, use a proper ship and you cant get ganked in empire, never. transporting 100+ mil in a hauler is asking for it BPO's take no space...pretty easy to make a statement like that when trasporting something that takes up no space.
Prestis	Posted - 2006.05.01 18:28:00 - [90] If a pirate should spend months on combat skills to blow you up, why is wrong to expect people to send one month training transport ships for (near) immunity to suicide tactics? It's not like this is happening to new players who don't have the time to train - new players aren't hauling 100m+ loads around.
Tenacha Khan	Posted - 2006.05.01 19:31:00 - [91] I did not read through all the replies so maybe its already been mentioned but... Scanning cargo or ship setup should be looked upon as a hostile act and the person doing the scanning should get flagged to the person he is scanning.
Sagari T'Man	Posted - 2006.05.01 21:06:00 - [92] Agreed on the scanning part, It's a pretty hostile act if you ask me, to scan another ship without permission.
Nyabinghi	Posted - 2006.05.01 21:27:00 - [93] Edited by: Nyabinghi on 01/05/2006 21:27:36 /signed Customs Agents, Concord, they have a right to scan your cargo. All other scans should be considered illegal and a sec hit given out for it. ...oooh but here come the flames... I make cool banners for ISK.
Hunters Presence	Posted - 2006.05.01 22:24:00 - [94] Originally by: Nyabinghi Edited by: Nyabinghi on 01/05/2006 21:27:36 /signed Customs Agents, Concord, they have a right to scan your cargo. All other scans should be considered illegal and a sec hit given out for it. ...oooh but here come the flames... Yay. Take out recon completely. If everyone gets a great whooping flag when they try to scan someone, I'll drop pirating (that means low sec and deep space, not high sec). Only a reckless pirate jumps into an encounter without knowing the setup on the other end. It's part of a pirate's natural advantages. ----- Lead Games Programmer @ Quasit-Rushyo Games \| Me!
Twilight Moon	Posted - 2006.05.01 22:56:00 - [95] Originally by: Sagari T'Man Moved from General Discussions - Uly Edited by: Sagari T''Man on 28/04/2006 18:53:02 Its starting to spread, no longer can we be safe in even 1.0 systems, as our industrial ships get blown up en masse by these pirates. Targeting just about any cargo that is enough to justify the loss of their ship. We demand protection from CONCORD to enable us to do business once again. Its FAR to easy to destroy our ships and we are left with no options to defend us against these suicide pilots. The perps get a lowly security hit and is left to kill us another day. WE DEMAND A HARSHER PUNISHMENT FOR THESE PERPS!!! Sagari T'man Plastic Wrap for the win.
Telemicus Thrace	Posted - 2006.05.02 00:44:00 - [96] Originally by: Nyabinghi Edited by: Nyabinghi on 01/05/2006 21:27:36 /signed Customs Agents, Concord, they have a right to scan your cargo. All other scans should be considered illegal and a sec hit given out for it. ...oooh but here come the flames... Cargo and ship scans are a vital part of recon. As somebody who has been paid to carry out recon on other peoples war targets this would kill off another profession in Eve. Use a tougher ship, haul smaller amounts at a time or shrink wrap it but FFS stop asking for everyone else to be nerfed. Game mechanics should not be dumbed down to the lowest common denominator or Eve will end up like WoW. >> RECRUITING <<
Draquin	Posted - 2006.05.02 01:01:00 - [97] eh even thats not going to work because they figure that if you shrink wraped you probably had something valuable which makes you an instant target(Even when you have crap) and then what are you going to do? (Every time I was hit at a warpgate I was hauling something Shrink wraped) Granted I think some people just like Suicide ganking because they can do it, and realy what does it cost them?
Andargor theWise	Posted - 2006.05.02 01:08:00 - [98] Originally by: Twilight Moon Plastic Wrap for the win. That urban legend still around? Doesn't work. Nothing short of freighters (bug) bars scanning. Andargor
Telemicus Thrace	Posted - 2006.05.02 01:45:00 - [99] Originally by: Draquin eh even thats not going to work because they figure that if you shrink wraped you probably had something valuable which makes you an instant target(Even when you have crap) and then what are you going to do? (Every time I was hit at a warpgate I was hauling something Shrink wraped) Granted I think some people just like Suicide ganking because they can do it, and realy what does it cost them? A few ships with a shrink wrapped unit of veld will start changing that policy. But that would require these hauler pilots to invest time and effort into their safety so it won't happen. The most sure fire way is to haul en masse and stop short of the target system, before you get to the campers. Then re-rig your ship for less capacity / more agility and do a few short range hops never carrying enough to make it worth while. <20mil in your hold should be enough for you to be left alone or at the worst start seeing pirate profits shrink. Of course a properly tanked T2 hauler is the thing you really want. Industrials for hauling low end junk and common minerals. When your cargo is routinely over 30mil you can afford a 20mil Transport ship and give your merchandise the respect it deserves. Cargo containers are the myth, shrink wrap works. >> RECRUITING <<
Andargor theWise	Posted - 2006.05.02 01:55:00 - [100] Originally by: Telemicus Thrace Cargo containers are the myth, shrink wrap works. Hmm. Well, things seem to change at every patch. I seem to recall a time when you couldn't see into secure cans. Oh well, at least it's something. But I agree that it's a big flag for anyone looking. Andargor
Sofya Spyridon	Posted - 2006.05.02 02:02:00 - [101] Why dont you just use a cloaking device, and when you spot pirates warp to the next ast. field.
Telemicus Thrace	Posted - 2006.05.02 02:41:00 - [102] Originally by: Sofya Spyridon Why dont you just use a cloaking device, and when you spot pirates warp to the next ast. field. In this scenario (ganking haulers at gates / station in hi-sec) you know they have checked you out when they scan you, to scan you they have to lock you and you can't cloak if you are locked. If you adopt the standard policy of jump > cloak > align > decloak > warp as you would in low sec then the cloak will help. Of course the crowd at a hi-sec gates could well decloak you anyway (must remain 2km from anything else). Hi-sec hauler ganks rarely happen in belts I would imagine. The only reason a hauler would be in a high sec belt is to collect rat loot or minerals, neither of which in hi-sec are valuable enough to warrant a suicide attack. Of course the pirates can start adapting to anti-scanning tricks and get around cloaks easy enough. All they would have to do is start setting up large courier jobs of junk with a high collateral for low pay / short run. They get alerted with the name of the pilot that picked up the cargo, by it's size they know they have to be in a hauler with expanders and all they have to do is gank them as they come out of the station and they keep the collateral. If they lose the cargo no biggie as it was junk, if the hauler makes it again no biggie as the payout won't break the bank and they have the cargo ready to rack up another target. For low pay / short hop they are unlikely to attract a Freighter pilot which would need too much firepower to gank. The best solution against this scenario would be a Transport ship (T2) with a solid tank on it. I know Tank CEO is reputed to have taken out a Transport with a suicide Raven but it may have had a bad / non-existant tank fitted. Or just stick to hauling your own cargo and never carry enough at once o be a viable target. Easy. >> RECRUITING <<
maGz	Posted - 2006.05.02 07:51:00 - [103] Edited by: maGz on 02/05/2006 07:53:02 Be advised tho; flying a T2-hauler doesn't mean you can't die. A poorly setup T2-hauler (ie. no tank etc) will go down easily to most suicide-ravens/armageddons. EDIT: This only applies to the small T2-haulers. The larger ones have too much for HP for a single suicide-bs to pop. ______________________
Bailian Moxtain	Posted - 2006.05.02 07:53:00 - [104] YARRRR!!!! WE LIKE PIRATING IN HIGH SEC!
Telemicus Thrace	Posted - 2006.05.02 12:44:00 - [105] Originally by: maGz Edited by: maGz on 02/05/2006 07:53:02 Be advised tho; flying a T2-hauler doesn't mean you can't die. A poorly setup T2-hauler (ie. no tank etc) will go down easily to most suicide-ravens/armageddons. EDIT: This only applies to the small T2-haulers. The larger ones have too much for HP for a single suicide-bs to pop. True, but to not tank it would be like strapping mining lasers on a BS. Oh wait, ok, it needed to be said. Sorry. >> RECRUITING <<
Vamp 1	Posted - 2006.05.02 13:01:00 - [106] Originally by: Sagari T'Man Moved from General Discussions - Uly Edited by: Sagari T''Man on 28/04/2006 18:53:02 Its starting to spread, no longer can we be safe in even 1.0 systems, as our industrial ships get blown up en masse by these pirates. Targeting just about any cargo that is enough to justify the loss of their ship. We demand protection from CONCORD to enable us to do business once again. If they use trial suicide accounts, th sec status won't bother them. Its FAR to easy to destroy our ships and we are left with no options to defend us against these suicide pilots. The perps get a lowly security hit and is left to kill us another day. WE DEMAND A HARSHER PUNISHMENT FOR THESE PERPS!!! Sagari T'man
mamolian	Posted - 2006.05.02 14:14:00 - [107] Originally by: Sagari T'Man Edited by: Sagari T''Man on 28/04/2006 19:03:01 I think you don't get it, its the penalty thats not scary enough, I want atleast a -2 or -3 sec hit for such an act. On one side i agree with you.. players who continually comit crimes in high sec.. should not be afforded the protections of concord.. you wont find many pirates sitting in gank battleships with tech 1 fittings and full insurance.. if their blinking red due to being known criminals, and hence attackable by anyone and everyone. On the other hand, wouldnt the game be soo god damn boring if game mechanics protected you 100% from all loss etc.. Personally I think it should stay the way it is.. it makes the game that little bit more exciting. And im sure Sagari, will learn also.. that your not ever 100% safe.. spend the time and isk to get into a tech 2 hauler / freighter to ensure your cargo makes it to its destination safely.. at least in empire (not including war time :P) -------------------------------
Nyabinghi	Posted - 2006.05.02 14:37:00 - [108] Originally by: mamolian On the other hand, wouldnt the game be soo god damn boring if game mechanics protected you 100% from all loss etc.. So unless the game mechanics and workarounds favor pirates exclusively EVE becomes boring? I make cool banners for ISK.
Lux Simian	Posted - 2006.05.02 16:50:00 - [109] How frequently is this occuring? I've had one experience of anything approching piracy. Someone nabbed my can in a frigate, whilst I was nearby in a cruiser - which I suppose is a kind suicide piracy! Certainly theres an element to both sides of the arguement regarding Concord if the occurance of such attacks is frequent in an area. After all 1.0 space is supposed to be the safest space, and so such occurances shouldn't be common place (or the security rating should be lower). No where should be considered safe, but if 0.9 space is getting players podded faster than 0.4 space something is wrong. Suicide ganking is after all pretty much a exploit of the clone and insurence system. However there is also a responsibility on behalf of the players to ensure their own safety. Join or start a corp and recruit members specificially to provide an escort as their role and in return pay them. This is a game where there is risk that anytime you leave the station then you could end up vapourised. If its a case you are still making a good profit, but loose the occassional ship. Well then welcome to Eve, because thats how it is for everyone
Joria Klex	Posted - 2006.05.02 17:18:00 - [110] Originally by: bumcheekcity Originally by: Kylania Originally by: Sagari T'Man I think you would feel sad, if someone blew up your car and the police let the perps go with a warning. If exotic cars had a recent history of being blown up at that intersection, and I knew the police wouldn't do anything, and I drove through that intersection anyway, without trying other methods of getting my car somewhere else, I might be sad but I wouldn't be able to blame the perps or the police for me driving my expensive car through that intersection. Lolz. Yup, QFT. Seriously, CCP HAVE released protection. It's called the t2 industrial. Now, STFU and stop complaining because you got ganked while flying stuff unprotected. If you want to play a no-risk game, please for for WoW. Or minesweeper. lol qft? figures a washed out WoW player like yourself would use that term, as far as WoW being risk free...that's a lie ask any lvl 20 that got ganked. Anywho my main point here is that a game shouldn't be like a friggin stock market and yes common sense is best. Although i do sympathize for your loss, i dont think the game was ment to be played with the fact that you will never be blown up in high sec space.
Amiable Quinn	Posted - 2006.05.02 18:24:00 - [111] Edited by: Amiable Quinn on 02/05/2006 18:25:02 Originally by: Joria Klex lol qft? figures a washed out WoW player like yourself would use that term, as far as WoW being risk free...that's a lie ask any lvl 20 that got ganked. Anywho my main point here is that a game shouldn't be like a friggin stock market and yes common sense is best. Although i do sympathize for your loss, i dont think the game was ment to be played with the fact that you will never be blown up in high sec space. As an ex (and somewhat current when my fiancee forces me to log my priest for raids) WoW player I can honestly say that WoW has an incredibly small death penalty, bordering on zero. What does the level 20 lose? Nothing but a few minutes of his time. One of the attractive things about Eve is the greater (and variable) death penalty.
SkyHawk5	Posted - 2006.08.08 14:15:00 - [112] I agree. I have been playing Guild Wars for about a year. This is a game with a death penalty that is reset when you zone to a town or outpost. Although this makes for easy gameplay it hardly keeps me on the edge of my seat. I just started playing eve and now I cant get enough. The thought of me loosing my ship dosent make me want them to change the game. It makes me want to learn how to prevent this from happening and kick some tail of my own.
Ecnav Gallente hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.08.08 15:44:00 - [113] have you tried using instas? __ _ __ _ __ _ __ _ __ _ __ _ __ _ __ _ __ _ __ I don't have a sig
Horatio Nately Caldari Battlefodder Inc The Red Skull	Posted - 2006.08.08 18:23:00 - [114] Originally by: Nyabinghi or EVE citizens need to start policing systems themselves. Until then no space is safe space. Isnt that why we have guns on our ships in the first place? What Alt? Director, Battlefodder Inc.
Clorthos Gallente Tau Ceti Global Production	Posted - 2006.08.08 18:39:00 - [115] I haul in low sec and high sec and if you assume you are safe and afk travel in highsec in anything that cannot last 4 rounds of attack then you lose. It is all risk vs reward if you carry 100 mil in minerals or 200 mil in tech 2 parts or even 3 or 4 tech 2 ships mods cloaking devices in a untanked industrial then you deserve the gank you are about to get. there is a lot of low slots and midslots on the industrial ships so you can tank it nicely if you are not lazy. If you really want to make it hard for them why not make instas from gate to gate and gate to station and station to gate to prevent traveling at 39ms in a fully loaded industrial. This game is not about clicking your exp button for 400 hours to get a skill up or pown lv 3 orcs until you level up to 50 it is about player vs player, and selling materials to those that use them. Asking for help form ccp to take care of a problem that you have every ability to take care of yourself is pure laziness and will take away from them having to look at REAL fixes and additions to the game. You saving 45 min of travel time just so you can do the haul in one load means that you left yourself open to gank from having no tank. If you have 6 low slots take the time to dedicate 2 or 3 to tanking if you are hauling anything more important than trash. If the problem of getting ganked goes away ie tanking your ship so they cannot kill you then the sucide teams will go away as well since they will have no risk vs reward! Stop feeding the problem and tank your industrial so you are not a target.
Lightof God Caldari Arcana Imperii Ltd.	Posted - 2006.08.08 18:47:00 - [116] best shipping method i have come up with as of yet for afk travel in empire with valuable stuff is geddon 4 eanm II 4 t2 1600mm plates its kinda hard to get though that with just the normal compliment of suceide gear.
Butter Dog ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.08.08 19:13:00 - [117] Whilst high-sec piracy does have a place, it is ridiculous that 'suicided' ships get a full insurance payout. T1 Torp Ravens seem to be the most popular for obvious reasons. However, getting a 100% insurance payout for suiciding your ship to CONCORD does not make sense. Insurance companies would surely recognise such deliberate mis-use of insurance policies and invalidate such claims.
Neamhain Daanan Caldari Counterglow Kancho Unlimited	Posted - 2006.08.08 20:19:00 - [118] yup, just got my ship destroyed by a suicide muppet in hi sec losing ship, valuable mods, cargo belonging to an escrow client, and i will lose the collaterol too- they get a double payday and my rep suffers i am absolutely livid Sober/n.& adj- A disturbing time between drinking sessions. If it ain't broke don't fix it.
Soumk	Posted - 2006.08.08 20:53:00 - [119] Eat onions and beans before you fly through empire. Follow it with orange juice or Tang. Wait about six hours. Not sure if it'll make you safer but it'll keep the family from bothering you if you need to concentrate on fleeing.
Durindana Gallente Solar Wind Distant Star Alliance	Posted - 2006.08.08 21:01:00 - [120] Originally by: Prestis High-sec piracy is the best thing to happen to EVE in a long time. Amen
Nhemisor	Posted - 2006.08.08 21:56:00 - [121] I believe what you seek is this: (skill book) Active AFK ISK Generator Ability to fly thru space uncontested. Will fly ship from pick-up location to drop-off location and place sell order to current highest buyer. Upon arriving in drop-off location, will do a full scan of the entire market's sell orders and compare to the market's buy orders. Will automatically buy the highest cost-sell ratio items and set as next waypoint. Will undock from station and engage autopilot to pick-up location. Level 1 provides full, undetectable cloaking while flying thru 1.0 space, and each subsequent level increases the security level up to 0.5. Level 1 will also do a market scan of the entire region, and each subsequent level increases that distance up to 5 regions away. (see also Dormant AFK ISK Generator for miners) Many people may not be aware of this extremely valuable skill book, since CCP in its wisdom has made this skill book very rare. So rare, in fact, that only 1 is in game existence. Whoever it is that is currently sitting on the largest dragon's hoarde of ISK, is in possession of this skill book. You can, however, obtain this skill book. You must pod the person currently in possession of it. A cargo container will appear with the skill book intact. You can retain this skill book until you are podded yourself. Have fun!
Taipan Gedscho Taipan Industries	Posted - 2006.08.09 01:46:00 - [122] Originally by: Berrik Radhok Then go rat in 0.0 and stop flying big pinatas full of isk around. hey, i named my hauler "Pinata" weeks ago!
Devian 666	Posted - 2006.08.09 03:34:00 - [123] There is far too much whining by haulers in this thread. All the tools to avoid being suicide ganked are already there. Every time you lose a ship in this game look at why it happend and be creative and find a solution. Solutions have been repeatedly presented in this thread and all haulers are doing is whining. If you invest 100m+ in cargo and you fly it around in a 500k untanked ship you deserve to be ganked. You invest that much in cargo and nothing in your ship. Why not spend a few million and get your ship tanked. Oh you lose cargo expanders? So you'd rather lose cargo than lose cargo volume? Do the calculations as to what costs you more. Also I think it is too easy for a new character to tank an industrial they need to be nerfed. /prepare for more whiney hauler flames and complaints because they don't want to think. Why should haulers make money without using their wits? If you can't exact you revenge (like hire mercenaries to war dec, learn some combat skills or tank your hauler) then admit to yourself that you aren't cunning enough to play eve and cancel your account.
Tyranical Teabagger	Posted - 2006.08.09 05:52:00 - [124] The only thing safe from suicide gankers costs a billion isk and is fairly skill intensive. T2 indies aren't safe. Safer maybe, but a skilled BS pilot can pop them before concord shows up. The perp still gets insurence as well. It also involves little or no risk and can net you billions. Something is broken. At least make it difficult. I'm almost tempted to start jumping around the gates in jita with a couple 1 run battleship BPC's just to **** in the gankers cereal.
Tecam Hund Minmatar The Buggers	Posted - 2006.08.09 10:32:00 - [125] Don't know how many threads were there on these forums about high sec gankage. There is no reason to argue and cry and moan. Train for transport ships.Its nobody's fault that you can't make a little training effort to ensure your own safety. PvPers train level 5 ship command skills for high end pvp, why should high end traders be able to transport 100+ mil worth of cargo in t1 haulers without any risk? You say you can't afford or spend time on training for transports? If you can afford 100mil loads you can afford the ship. If you regularly transport 100mil cargo loads then trading/industry is your main profession. Take some time to get elite skills for that profession and stop whining.
Mazare Mircea	Posted - 2006.08.09 11:49:00 - [126] Considering my skills - 2months old and first time player, the best method i found is speed + tank. I use a Stabber with 3300 shields and with resists. The ship also does 2.4 km/s . Most valuable cargo I've transported was 3 bpc's of about 400 mil.
Levrin Atischa	Posted - 2006.08.09 12:29:00 - [127] Just to help everyone out of there dreams. Even Passive shield tanked transports are easy prey! It aint hard to pop em! 2-3 bs with smartbombs do the job en notime Yes it is stupid to move expensive **** in t1 haulers Yes t2 haulers are better And yes a freighter might even be better than transports. But no they are not the awnser to all the high sec hauling problems I think the point some "carebears" are trying to make that its not realy fair in there view that to be save they have to buy a 1 bil ship that is as slow as trying push dung trough a funnel uphill. And they only alternative they have according to the community is buying a 30mil ship that can be destroyed for about the same price by the perps. Its true that for shipping a bpo or skillbooks other means of transport are available. And doing this in a hauler is not realy the smartest thing. But suggesting that they should fit a bs to continue there normal trade(no bpo/skillbooks/factionmods) in highsec seems to me like suggesting to pvpers to all use mining barges. It only visualises you have no understanding of there trade and dont respect it. There is no way a bs would do for someone that trades as it lacks cargo space. The proposal that is suggested in this thread is fair.(tho it could have been stated a bit better and less as flaimbait) Make the margin for ganking transports in highsec higher. you should at least be able to transport around 200m in one without the other party being better of because of insurance. This intstead of the current <100m you have to have in your hold to make it nonprofitable for gankers. You can ofcourse include the sec hit ppl get but this aint realy to high and hard to get back up. I think its not realy fair from most pirates to mention all kind of non solutions while they gloathing from there stabbedup ships. it would be like ppl saying to them they shouldnt cry about the banning of stabs if it just had been mentioned by tux ;) (the last paragraph is just added to give most pvpers a visualisation they might understand and is in no way intended as flaimbait) Well just my 2 cents anyway. Levrin
valerydarcy The Priory	Posted - 2006.08.09 12:46:00 - [128] blowing up ships in high-sec? who would do such a thing? ***
JoeT Amarr Short Attention Span The Guardian Coalition	Posted - 2006.08.09 13:53:00 - [129] to lazy to read 5pages... so Go find a quite system. --- Murder Murder, yes indeed, K-I-L-L-I-N-G
voxen Es and Whizz	Posted - 2006.08.09 14:20:00 - [130] Originally by: JoeT to lazy to read 5pages... so Go find a quite system. because you haven't read the 5 pages you just make yourself look stupid now... congrats Insta's help a lot, so does improving ship agility (either by having evasive manoeuvring or nano's), but even just hardening your t1 inty will save a LOT of problems. Yes, BS'ses and other tanked ships don't have the problems inty's have, but they're useless for the serious hauler becauase of limited cargo space
Angelic Resolution The Arcanum	Posted - 2006.08.09 15:27:00 - [131] I've got no problems with empire ganking, hell even tried to get ganked once and have an alt pick up my stuff, no one took the bait. But the thing I love about these kinds of threads are the masses of people who say "Get a t2 hauler, get a freigher". To them I say, idiots. You honestly expect characters who are a few months old to just pull a freighter out of their arse? Please.. A t2 hauler sure.. why not.. that's only the cost of a BS or less/more. They're not that hard to get as long as you don't take into account the amount of time and skill training you have to do. Idiots. Anyway, empires ganks are good. CCP do state "No space is safe space" So it's good to rattle empire, just hope they get rid of insurance.
Tecam Hund Minmatar The Buggers	Posted - 2006.08.09 17:38:00 - [132] Originally by: Angelic Resolution But the thing I love about these kinds of threads are the masses of people who say "Get a t2 hauler, get a freigher". To them I say, idiots. You honestly expect characters who are a few months old to just pull a freighter out of their arse? Please.. A t2 hauler sure.. why not.. that's only the cost of a BS or less/more. They're not that hard to get as long as you don't take into account the amount of time and skill T2 haulers cost 30-50 mil last time I checked. Explain to me how one can afford hauling high end goods that cost hundreds of millions and not be able to afford the ship? As far as time and skill goes. It takes longer to train to use a cruiser to its full ability than a tranpsort ship. As I said earlier, if you are already advaned enough trader to move such expensive loads take your time and train for the darn transport. Its really simple. You can keep hitting your head against the wall and lose hundreds of millions over and over again, or you can train for a transport and become successful. Removing insurance payouts for CONCORD ganks will not solve the issue. Hell, there was a thread earlier about "recon ships high sec piracy! Something gotta stop cause pirates move their recons into mission runners' smart bomb range". Now imagine if there was no insurance payout. People who keep whining instead of acting will alays find something to get upset about. Enforcing bigger security loss for high sec attacks is not possible unless you change the whole security loss/gain system. Besides I don't see why the punishement should be any bigger if somebody decided to gank a hauler in high sec.
Levrin Atischa	Posted - 2006.08.09 18:20:00 - [133] Quote: T2 haulers cost 30-50 mil last time I checked. Explain to me how one can afford hauling high end goods that cost hundreds of millions and not be able to afford the ship? Stop giving the same awnser over and over again! transports are as easily ganked as indy's It costs 30-50m to buy one and it costs 30-50m to blow one up. It only takes 4-5 volleys with large smartbombs. You only have to station the bs at the 15km distance from a gate and scan the hauler coming into to system.(and yes bookies would solve that problem but not everywhere is a warzone and copying for all of empire aint compareable with the effort it takes to set up a high sec gank(15m)) I would gladly pay 300m for a nice new transpart that is more agile and costs as much isk to blow up in high sec. The not being payed out on insurance is to create a larger margin for highsec ganking not make it inpossible. Do not think traders and builders do not skill and are lazy. i wouldnt even mind if the new minny bs was dedicated to trading( and takes bs and tycoon lvl 5 as req) but i think the rest of the community would go haywire if they got a trading bs. Levrin
Tecam Hund Minmatar The Buggers	Posted - 2006.08.09 18:44:00 - [134] T2 Large smartbomb (do they even exist?) does 350 points of damage. Tanked transport has 4000-5000 hp in shield/armour alone with high resistances. Eight smartbombs would do 2800 points of raw damage. Do the math. And I can't really give any different answer when people come up with the same exact question again and again. But anyhow, this discussion is pointless it seems. I am sure there are plenty of traders who are enjoying a successful career just because they don't wait for CCP to change the rules for them.
Levrin Atischa	Posted - 2006.08.09 21:33:00 - [135] the point of my plea was that its sad to know that you lose your working capital( your cargo and ship) while the pvper gets his capital all back from the lovely ensurance company. This fact assaults my lovely fluffy feeling of economics thats part of my carebear side. Combine this with the fact that i get slanderd back for not doing my math on ship setups and posibilities seriously offends my pvp side. So i try again to make it more clear: Quote: T2 Large smartbomb (do they even exist?) does 350 points of damage. Tanked transport has 4000-5000 hp in shield/armour alone with high resistances. Eight smartbombs would do 2800 points of raw damage. Do the math. 3 domies with 6 large t1 smartbombs(250dmg) can do 2-3 vollies under concord fire (jamming doesnt help the victim) this ads up to 6750-13500 dmg. Should be enough. If you build all the stuff yourself your loss should end up in the same price region of a transport + the fitting me thinks. Quote: And I can't really give any different answer when people come up with the same exact question again and again. But anyhow, this discussion is pointless it seems. I am sure there are plenty of traders who are enjoying a successful career just because they don't wait for CCP to change the rules for them. O i do enjoy trading very much. I wont wait until ccp changes the rules. I gladly take the risk that comes with the profesion and i agree that nobody should fly afk. Im only a bit bored with all the pvpers saying there is a easy defences against it and that all ppl in non combat ships are fluffy carebears that dont know how to setup or skill a ship and therefore should shutup. So to state my point again in a few sentances: The economic risk for the takedown of 1 tranport is equivalent to the price of one thus it only provide adequately protection for its content in high sec when this content is less of value than double the ships price. This makes the argument that transports are a falid means for tranporting your more valuable cargo safely in high sec invalid. Levrin.
Larkonis Trassler g guild	Posted - 2006.08.09 21:43:00 - [136] Quote: Whining Top tips for all hauler nubs Don't fly AFK Don't fly valuable cargo in untanked haulers/shuttles Don't waste bandwidth on the forums when you do get deaded and lose billions because you're an idiot
Levrin Atischa	Posted - 2006.08.09 22:05:00 - [137] p.s. the bookie thing doesnt work either it only shows the vouchers on scanner so no need to load long. p.p.s To above poster: what a nice and considering post
Tecam Hund Minmatar The Buggers	Posted - 2006.08.09 22:15:00 - [138] Well, of course 3 battleships fitted with smart bombs could take out a transport... But its not like there are 3 Domis on each high security gate fitted with smart bombs and waiting for a person to pass with some valuable cargo. What we are talking about is people getting ganked in their t1 haulers by 1-2 people. Transport should be able to protect you from that in most cases. About the gain/loss of money to destroy a transport. I think it takes about 20 mil to platinum insure tier 1 battleship. So 3 Domis lost would account to 60 mil (75 with fittings?). Its close to price of a transport, but they will not be blowing up every ship trying to get by if it has 100mil in cargo because they only gain 25 mil for 3 people. Not really worth the sec hit and a chance of missing bigger target. I am not saying that all players who trade are fluffy carebears and can't fit out a ship btw. I personally do both pirating and trade/industry. Carebear is not equal non-combat player.
oodin Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2006.08.10 09:05:00 - [139] all you t1 nubs transporting 100s of millions invaluables can convo me and i will escort you
Maximada	Posted - 2006.08.10 09:22:00 - [140] well we suicide gank sometimes but only soft or stupid targets! The best way to protect yourself is to get a few corpmates remote repping you while you travel. Thats about the only thing that would make us think twice about blowing you into kingdom come.
oodin Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2006.08.10 09:31:00 - [141] remote repping you while you travel?? that has to be the dumbest advice i have heard in my entire life.
Taipan Gedscho Taipan Industries	Posted - 2006.08.10 15:06:00 - [142] Edited by: Taipan Gedscho on 10/08/2006 15:13:10 Edited by: Taipan Gedscho on 10/08/2006 15:09:56 Originally by: Tecam Hund Well, of course 3 battleships fitted with smart bombs could take out a transport... But its not like there are 3 Domis on each high security gate fitted with smart bombs and waiting for a person to pass with some valuable cargo. What we are talking about is people getting ganked in their t1 haulers by 1-2 people. Transport should be able to protect you from that in most cases. About the gain/loss of money to destroy a transport. I think it takes about 20 mil to platinum insure tier 1 battleship. So 3 Domis lost would account to 60 mil (75 with fittings?). Its close to price of a transport, but they will not be blowing up every ship trying to get by if it has 100mil in cargo because they only gain 25 mil for 3 people. Not really worth the sec hit and a chance of missing bigger target. I am not saying that all players who trade are fluffy carebears and can't fit out a ship btw. I personally do both pirating and trade/industry. Carebear is not equal non-combat player. i think that pretty much nails it. from all the posts i think this one explains it best. short, precise, understandable, and most probable damn close to whats actually going on. and i like the last sentence. btw, i saw someone in a tempy pop a ball of macrominers with 8 smartbombs. cant remember the sec rating of the system (bout 0.8 or something), but he got TWO volleys off. thats SIXTEEN possible large smartbomb hits from ONE ship. since that guy tried it the first time... well. first wave popped the barges, second one the pods. :( well actually there was so much lag when concord arrived that nobody could tell if it was the first or the second wave.
Dryxonedes Sae Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2006.08.10 16:05:00 - [143] Twice in a trip through high sec i've seen a T2 industrial survive assaults by suiciders. I'd assume they must have had something good to attempt a T2. First one was a raven and a dominix (dominix i'd assume was loaded with blasters and was parked to hit the transport directly incomming - i was on the other side of the gate ready to leave when it happened so.,...) - Transport was an actively tanked bustard, took an absolute hammering, but survived for concord to come deal with the guys doing it. In short, a T2 industrial can survive a reasonable ganking, it needs you to be at your keyboard and actively tank the ship. Don't complain if your an armour tanker, you get plenty of warning when you see locks start to pop up, and then you've got a shield as a buffer. Guess it all really comes down to don't afk it, and use something appropriate for the job. T2 transport, mwd, active tank, and i have my doubts you'll get plugged. I won't take a caracal to assault a battleship, but i might take a cerberus. Why? Right ship for the right job, if I used a caracal i certainly wouldn't be whining when i got my arse handed to me. ** Where's the problem? It's called natural selection - The bottom of the **ing food chain. -Denis Leary
jjinn	Posted - 2006.08.10 16:22:00 - [144] Originally by: Leandro Salazar And T2 indies would be a lot more viable if you didn't need industrial skill 5. That is quite a *** to train just for safe hauling. Personally I always put stuff worth more than 30 mil in MWD frigs or battleships, but even if it does not affect me I find the ease of suicide piracy ridiculous. They should at the very least get not insurance if their ship is blown up by concord. Industrial 5 - Jesus I wish my life were so easy. One level 5 skill for a tech 2 ship. Just for an 'Ass Frig'in need 3 just to get the bloody thing flying, let alone make it worth the risk in ISK. Its worth noting that the Industrial is the frigate of the transport world. Like everyone else you need to beef up, learn the skills, and getcha self one of those big fk transports with like 12000 structure points/AP/ Shields and stick a tank on it. Lets see anyone take that down before Concord show up. If you are moving tech 2 gear and millions of isk in a Iterion its the Mission equivilant of taking Frigates into low sec. You're easy prey. Don't be easy prey. My advice Escorts, works against pirates in real life as well as eve. Sure they may attack you, but then even a cruiser with drones should be able to tie them up - or take a lot of them out. Ganks use high insurance ships. And of course prevent them getting your can. If it looks like they are going to win, have the escort take out the can and they are f**ked. Solo'ing in EVE is risky. Gang or join a corp, get a plan, and then take it to those who bring you pain.
Kaomi Zorbaz	Posted - 2006.08.10 16:26:00 - [145] I think some of this could be fixed if Insurance companies didnt pay to people who were killed by Concord. Now the pirates have to risk not taking down the target and losing their ship. Right now even if they lose out, they get a lot of their money back from the insurance company. It is a law of avgs, eventually they will hit a big payout to make up for the small losses.
Khanid Am	Posted - 2006.08.10 16:55:00 - [146] Why o why do you still fly through Jita! Unless you have business, Jita is very easy to avoid. I can fly from example from Essence region to lonetrack without going through Jita. how......... mmmmmmm ok then Let's say you're in Reyn. Set you AP to Nonni.... done AP on standard setting, sec space, thats all! I found it a shorter route as well. I only go through Jita in my fast frig 3.0 m/s. Last time they attemped to lock me (scanning) they could not even get a lock coz I was already in jump The Gank the standard route as well, so another way to avoid them. So no more complains about you being blown up! It's part of EVE, live with it. And if they pod kill you in the process you get a 30 day kill right. Now that's a bonus
stoats	Posted - 2006.08.10 17:55:00 - [147] Originally by: Khanid Am So no more complains about you being blown up! It's part of EVE, live with it. And if they pod kill you in the process you get a 30 day kill right. Now that's a bonus If you don't fight back you get 60 day kill rights for a ship kill.
Krulla Minmatar Queens of the Stone Age Chimaera Pact	Posted - 2006.08.10 17:59:00 - [148] These kind of people amuse me. You do realize that if you get ganked in empire you get kill rights on the pirate for 2 months, right? So, the next time you see them sitting at a gate doing their thing, you are free to gank them all you want. But no. That would be too hard. It's a lot easier to whine instead. People who do high sec ganks (myself included) have MASSIVE kill rights lists. Many have 30+. Yet people very very rarely bother to retaliate. CCP has given you the tools to avoid being killed, and the tools to get even if you do get killed. Use them instead of whining like the lazy git you are.
Lygos ISS Navy Task Force	Posted - 2006.08.10 18:25:00 - [149] I run a personal NBSI policy. If it's not blue, scan it.
coldplasma	Posted - 2006.08.10 21:12:00 - [150] If you don't like piracy, uninstall EVE right now. ____________________________ See you in 0.0 kids...
Mazare Mircea	Posted - 2006.08.11 11:44:00 - [151] Edited by: Mazare Mircea on 11/08/2006 11:45:43 Originally by: Tecam Hund Originally by: Angelic Resolution But the thing I love about these kinds of threads are the masses of people who say "Get a t2 hauler, get a freigher". To them I say, idiots. You honestly expect characters who are a few months old to just pull a freighter out of their arse? Please.. A t2 hauler sure.. why not.. that's only the cost of a BS or less/more. They're not that hard to get as long as you don't take into account the amount of time and skill T2 haulers cost 30-50 mil last time I checked. Explain to me how one can afford hauling high end goods that cost hundreds of millions and not be able to afford the ship? As far as time and skill goes. It takes longer to train to use a cruiser to its full ability than a tranpsort ship. As I said earlier, if you are already advaned enough trader to move such expensive loads take your time and train for the darn transport. Its really simple. You can keep hitting your head against the wall and lose hundreds of millions over and over again, or you can train for a transport and become successful. Removing insurance payouts for CONCORD ganks will not solve the issue. Hell, there was a thread earlier about "recon ships high sec piracy! Something gotta stop cause pirates move their recons into mission runners' smart bomb range". Now imagine if there was no insurance payout. People who keep whining instead of acting will alays find something to get upset about. Enforcing bigger security loss for high sec attacks is not possible unless you change the whole security loss/gain system. Besides I don't see why the punishement should be any bigger if somebody decided to gank a hauler in high sec. I am 3 months old and many times i had to haull 300 mil of stuff that occupies less than 1m3; it's not that i can't afford a blockade runner, i can't fly one. So yeah ... there are ppl in this category. So far i haven't been ganked but i also haven't hauled anything afk.
Selentus	Posted - 2006.08.11 12:18:00 - [152] Edited by: Selentus on 11/08/2006 12:19:08 From the eve information page : "There are starting areas for new players where you will be safe until you have gained enough skill and experience to venture out into the wilder, more aggressive areas of space." Guess they lied Gank Piwates in high sec should not get insurance.
Hans Roaming Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.08.11 14:03:00 - [153] Hmm why not have some fun and run BPC's and 1 units of zyd around in empire high sec space in your haulers. If it was not profitable then pirates wouldn't do it. Don't forget you get kill rights and know exactly what the enemy is flying and their fit. If they use smart bombs then web them and stay out of 5km range and they loose thier ship for nothing.
13th	Posted - 2006.08.11 15:19:00 - [154] Originally by: Selentus Edited by: Selentus on 11/08/2006 12:19:08 From the eve information page : "There are starting areas for new players where you will be safe until you have gained enough skill and experience to venture out into the wilder, more aggressive areas of space." Guess they lied Gank Piwates in high sec should not get insurance. Are there really new players carrying around hundreds of millions of isk in a hauler? Or are the pirates really going after new players in frigates and rookie ships?
Dark Reaper64	Posted - 2006.08.11 15:37:00 - [155] Well heres a quick fix to your OMFGWTFBBQFISHSTKS IM DEFENSLESS freighting problems. First off dont be afk. Then instead of fitting nothing but cargo expanders strap on some sheild/amor hardners to your lil indy (Badger MkII's work best imo). Youll take a beating but live through his short attack as concord and sentries waste him. Leaving you free to motor up, loot his can, and laugh ur arse off as you continue on ur merry way. As for Security hits and Concord reaction- Eve is a totally free for all pvp game. Meaning anyone can attack you anywhere. The only protection you are afforded by staying in .5+ is that your attacker will loose his ship nothing more. If you cant handle that please unistall Eve and buy World of Carebears, farm copper till you have 10 gold pieces, and then hide in town for the remainder of you gaming life.

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