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Ballistic Control System 2 BPO for 33b? YES PLS!

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Arkanor	Posted - 2006.04.30 16:26:00 - [91] Originally by: Vina Originally by: Aodha Khan If someone is willing to pay it then that's what we call a 'player run market'. if you went to a car dealership, and the Car with no power locks or windows was $10000 and the one with power locks and windows was $8,950,000 which would you buy? That is the situation with tech 1/tech 2 It's more like going to a car dealership with $30,000,000 and then deciding which one to buy (out of that situation) What else are you going to spend the money on? ________________________________________________ Originally by: Kadrush I want a Death Star to mine Veldspar Yes I made the pic before I saw this
MortyM	Posted - 2006.04.30 16:35:00 - [92] Originally by: Malthros Zenobia And besides, I don't want to hear people who can *** a complex for billions of isk to *** about others making easy money. I'm not talking about the 10/01s alliances use, but the 8-9s, maybe even the 7s, which someone could run easily on 1-2 people, and walk away a few hundred mil richer, and can do it like clockwork. Just because someone else's isk machine runs alittle eaier doesn't mean you aren't able to churn that money out easier than most others. Complexes are great isk making machines yes, but ever wondered why we are able to run them ? Because we claim, own and protect the space they are in. Don't like it ? Then come kick us out You have to work hard to be able to run complexes, and then you still have to run them too to acctually get any isk out of them. Unlike the lottery the complexes are all about player competition, you just gotta beat the other people to them. The lottery just drops a prize of a couple bill on some random players head. Make the BPO's go to whoever is willing to work the hardest for them and you would have a much fairer system, and it would acctually bring competition and fun to the research area.
Translution	Posted - 2006.04.30 16:43:00 - [93] I think the tec 2 situation is fine.... its the build times for some iteams that make them so ubber expensive. Besides how many tec 2 producers actually setup their bpos to build constantly ie put some in oven built.. take out put in again. I know i dont with mine cos there is not enough selling... Blue print copying is no longer viable really ... takes longer to copy in some cases then to build. maybe if that was addressed that would lower prices.
Ixianus	Posted - 2006.04.30 17:20:00 - [94] Edited by: Ixianus on 30/04/2006 17:21:30 Yeah, I got to page 2 and decided "** this" and came back here, cause its a repeat of the same crap complaints over and over again. The current TII system is quite good, thats not to say that things couldnt be done to improve it. Individuals who invest more time should face better odds than individuals who simply let the agents run on their own devices, perhaps there should be a funding level option? That would be nice and realistic and also gimp the odds far in favor of individuals who are already very wealthy. The future will most likely bring improvements of this type, or who knows, maybe all the *ing will get the devs to cave in and put them on the npc market, thus eliminating the primary impetus of producing techII at all when the profit margin drops to 1%. Theres nothing in here that isnt baseless whining. The same people that say "ohhh noeeeeesssssss I just ** myself that bpo cost 400328billion isk" would be beyond happy if they got a bpo themselves. The funny thing I think is that even if they do revise the system there will still be 400000 whiners in here saying "ohh noes I ran my missions and didnt get a bpo cry." If you want to play the TII game go out and invest the considerable time into skills, agents, and potentially missions that are required and then wait.
Nafri	Posted - 2006.04.30 17:33:00 - [95] tech2 is as player driven as agent system. For a player driven market, there needs to be supply and demand. Atm we have open demand, but the supply is artificial limited thx to the strange lottery. atm we have tech2 oligopols meeting a increasing demand, perfect situation to make insane money Summertime - Campingtime!
Professor McFly	Posted - 2006.04.30 17:49:00 - [96] Originally by: Odorless What would you ppl think would hapen if everyone that grinds missions for RP would be guaranteed to get tech2 BPO/BPC? I sure as hell wouldn't buy a single HAC/Recon or whatever anymore if i could get them for "free". But hey... maybe that's just me Then how the hell do navy ships still sell for so much money? __________________ Inappropriate link description. --Jorauk mods - pwning sigs since 1943
VonKaplanek III	Posted - 2006.04.30 17:59:00 - [97] Luck being the determining factor and passively accumulating points combined with the alt situation seems to be the problem here...
Temi	Posted - 2006.04.30 18:00:00 - [98] I find it funny how 90% of those who think the t2 market is borked dont have a bpo, and how 90% of those who think it works just fine does not have one. Spelling errors ahoy..
Deadzone	Posted - 2006.04.30 18:05:00 - [99] Same old problem....and IMHO same solution...that CCP doesnt want to implement. Get rid of all the damn BPOs! Turn everything into COPIES and continuously have agents handing them out, NPCs in places drop small run copies, have missions give them out as LP rewards. It doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure it out. And yes, for all those people who have BPOs..well...you wont get any sympathy here since this is the only REAL way to fix the system. Something needs to be sacraficed to fix the whole bloody thing...so suck it up. And before you say anything..my corp has several T2 prints. But in order to fix a clusterf*cked system, I would give em up in a heartbeat; if it meant things would come to a head and everything would be fixed. DZ Vice-Admiral Military Division Phoenix Propulsion Laboratories
Moghydin	Posted - 2006.04.30 18:08:00 - [100] The current lottery system is not good, that's for sure. But as I think more about this, I come to a conclusion that it's one of the least evils. Imagine a situation where a cooperative effort and planning would be needed to get a BPO. Would that imaginary situation be more fair? I think it would. But that way, most of the BPO's would end in the hands of several big entities, and ordinary ppl would have no chance whatsoever to enter that tech II production. Would it be better for the game itself? I think it wouldn't. So, with all the drawbacks, the lottery is one of the few ways to at least try to evenly distribute the BPO's (some of these BPO's btw, are not only ISK machines, but items of strategical advantage for some ppl). Of course, some ppl sell the BPO's, but everyone at least gets a chance to enter the tech II industry, which in other case would be a closed elite club.
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2006.04.30 18:08:00 - [101] Yes, I suppose it is easy to be blase when you stole your T2 BPO's. But anyway... It dosn't take a brain surgeon to realise that most T2 producers will quit if you shaft them that way (massive loss on their investment), and those which continue now have to add ever-changing BPC prices into T2 shipcosts...not to mention never any fixed delivery, AND loads will be produced by people who can't make a profit, and and... Sigh. "The Human eye is a marvelous device, with a very little effort it can overlook all but the most glaring injustice" - Quellchrist Falconer
Hllaxiu	Posted - 2006.04.30 18:15:00 - [102] Originally by: DigitalCommunist Originally by: Vina Originally by: Aodha Khan If someone is willing to pay it then that's what we call a 'player run market'. if you went to a car dealership, and the Car with no power locks or windows was $10000 and the one with power locks and windows was $8,950,000 which would you buy? That is the situation with tech 1/tech 2 Actually, in terms applicable to you, it would be the difference between shagging a cat, and shagging a catgirl. Thats a lot funnier than it should be. --- Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson
Caanan	Posted - 2006.04.30 18:17:00 - [103] 33b isk? That's not as surprising to me as that Hulk BPO that sold for 82 something bil isk.
Deadzone	Posted - 2006.04.30 18:19:00 - [104] Originally by: Maya Rkell Yes, I suppose it is easy to be blase when you stole your T2 BPO's. But anyway... It dosn't take a brain surgeon to realise that most T2 producers will quit if you shaft them that way (massive loss on their investment), and those which continue now have to add ever-changing BPC prices into T2 shipcosts...not to mention never any fixed delivery, AND loads will be produced by people who can't make a profit, and and... Sigh. You know Maya, you don't know $hit about what happened. I was there..I was part of everything that happened so maybe you should keep your pie hole shut unless you were involved. Which, looking at your corp marker...you weren't. If you have a problem, take it off the forums and stop trying to troll off-topic. DZ Vice-Admiral Military Division Phoenix Propulsion Laboratories
Dark Shikari	Posted - 2006.04.30 18:28:00 - [105] Originally by: Deadzone Same old problem....and IMHO same solution...that CCP doesnt want to implement. Get rid of all the damn BPOs! Turn everything into COPIES and continuously have agents handing them out, NPCs in places drop small run copies, have missions give them out as LP rewards. It doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure it out. And yes, for all those people who have BPOs..well...you wont get any sympathy here since this is the only REAL way to fix the system. Something needs to be sacraficed to fix the whole bloody thing...so suck it up. So, basically the entire economy should be destroyed in order to "fix" a problem that doesn't exist? [23] Member: Official Forum Warrior What's with the blue robots? Click my sig.
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2006.04.30 18:28:00 - [106] I know precisely what happened (I've heard it from both sides, in detail). I know precisely why you made your descision, and in some ways I agree with it. However, it remains, regardless, a blatent and absolute case of corp theft, and is has a direct bearing on your attitude on BPO ownership. If YOU feel the need to troll and flame, thats your issue. I was pointing out a simple fact. "The Human eye is a marvelous device, with a very little effort it can overlook all but the most glaring injustice" - Quellchrist Falconer
Bhaal	Posted - 2006.04.30 18:29:00 - [107] Those of you who think the T2 lottery is fine as a system are just **** in the head... It's CCP's biggest gaff and you think it's fine... ***** retards, all of you... ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE My Hero
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2006.04.30 18:30:00 - [108] Yes, and replacing it with a system where the T2 corps wouldn't even have to PAY for their T2 BPO's (which is the sum of basically every other suggestion here) would work SO much better. Snarf. "The Human eye is a marvelous device, with a very little effort it can overlook all but the most glaring injustice" - Quellchrist Falconer
Ebedar	Posted - 2006.04.30 19:12:00 - [109] I'm inclined to agree with DS on most (but not all) of his points here. Personally I'd prefer a system that rewarded those who regularly run the missions a lot more (i.e. gave them significantly more RP) to increase their chances of winning. Perhaps give them a significant RP boost every tenth mission they complete (rather than every ten consecutive missions), e.g. when they completed that mission they would get 5x the normal amount of RPs for that day. If that isn't enough, maybe tone down the number of RPs you gain passively/reduce the daily RP you receive by a certain percentage if you don't do missions for a specified period of time. The system is far from perfect but IMO it's better to tweak it than to completely re-write it from scratch and attempt to castigate existing Tech II BPO owners. People get caught up in the idea that anyone who has a Tech II BPO is automatically a billionaire, which is a load of balls. For every person who owns a HAC BPO there are dozens who end up with BPOs for items like 50mm Reinforced Steel Plates II or some useless ammo type. Intel for sale The Dominix: A Documentary
Dirtball	Posted - 2006.04.30 19:21:00 - [110] the problem is 90% of npcrs use ravens and 80% of lvl 4 agent runners use cerb so that mod should be insanly priced cause all the cearbears are buying the crap out of it
Moghydin	Posted - 2006.04.30 19:24:00 - [111] Originally by: Dirtball the problem is 90% of npcrs use ravens and 80% of lvl 4 agent runners use cerb so that mod should be insanly priced cause all the cearbears are buying the crap out of it You're right, Cerb is the only HAC that is overpriced
Jaddor	Posted - 2006.04.30 19:25:00 - [112] The problem is that it gives power (money is power in this game) to corps/alliances through luck and not ability. Thats a bad thing for a game like this. You shouldn't 'win eve' because of your luck with some BPO's and a system the devs have admited is flawed.
Dirtball	Posted - 2006.04.30 19:30:00 - [113] Originally by: Moghydin Originally by: Dirtball the problem is 90% of npcrs use ravens and 80% of lvl 4 agent runners use cerb so that mod should be insanly priced cause all the cearbears are buying the crap out of it You're right, Cerb is the only HAC that is overpriced bcu2 bpo thread mod = something you fit on your ship I said nothing about hac prices as I dont care cause I'm in cosmic fusion so I never die.
Drayce	Posted - 2006.04.30 19:56:00 - [114] Where's Kayosani so I can slap him upside the head I never took you to be the jealous type mate; what with all your alts, isk and combined skillpoints that you continually boast about I'd have thought you had an alt that was pulling in insane amounts of tech II BPOs. The way it is run at the moment is as a lottery. The way lotteries are run, someone has an incredibly low chance of claiming a jackpot for a small investment and a small amount of work (if you even count walking to the lotto shop to pick up a ticket work at all) with your chances of winning increasing depending on how many tickets you have purchased. Eves tech II lottery seems to be working perfectly in this sense and all I can see you complaining about is that it wasn't you that won. As has already been mentioned, Kali will introduce reverse engineering to the game and I can see this turning not just tech II but production itself on its head. Have patience for a couple months to wait and see how it plays out or hey, you could always stop playing Eve if it's too broken for you
Vina	Posted - 2006.04.30 21:16:00 - [115] Edited by: Vina on 30/04/2006 21:17:20 I'm not jealous. You don't understand. I have made 15b isk off 2 tech 2 BPOs. not the point. The point is it is the highest paying thing you can get in the game, it also requires NO EFFORT or investment of time or money to get. it is pure luck. THAT is what is wrong. Tech 2 bpos should be available to anyone who wants to work thier ass off for months to get it. not someone like Leno who is just retardedly lucky and gets a nighthawk BPO for 10,000 RP. Quote: Have patience for a couple months to wait and see how it plays out or hey, you could always stop playing Eve if it's too broken for you oh I will definately quit eve if tech 3 requires a tech 2 BPO. ----------------------------------- btw, threatening to close 1 account really hurt my eyes. - xaioguai
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2006.04.30 21:43:00 - [116] I doubt T3 (corp branded) will need T2. Probly need a POS mind you... "The Human eye is a marvelous device, with a very little effort it can overlook all but the most glaring injustice" - Quellchrist Falconer
fuze	Posted - 2006.04.30 21:49:00 - [117] Originally by: Vina oh I will definately quit eve if tech 3 requires a tech 2 BPO. Can I have your stuff? Eve is all about drinking beer and pushing buttons.
Malthros Zenobia	Posted - 2006.04.30 23:02:00 - [118] Edited by: Malthros Zenobia on 30/04/2006 23:05:50 Originally by: MortyM Originally by: Malthros Zenobia And besides, I don't want to hear people who can *** a complex for billions of isk to * about others making easy money. I'm not talking about the 10/01s alliances use, but the 8-9s, maybe even the 7s, which someone could run easily on 1-2 people, and walk away a few hundred mil richer, and can do it like clockwork. Just because someone else's isk machine runs alittle eaier doesn't mean you aren't able to churn that money out easier than most others. Complexes are great isk making machines yes, but ever wondered why we are able to run them ? Because we claim, own and protect the space they are in. Don't like it ? Then come kick us out Wouldn't you rather watch me try to run one in my new Raven, and get torn apart by the NPCs? Besides, people with T2 BPOs protect their investments by making sure they never go anywhere unless they have massive escort defense of some sort. edit: don't get me wrong morty, being a somewhat poor character, I'm not a big fan of high-rpiced T2, and TBH, I think it's utterly retarded that an NPC company would give out a BPO to a CUTTING EDGE TECHNOLOGY, simply because someone sat in a station for awhile. I think all current BPOS need to turn into copies, and ONLY copies should get seeded, with ammount varying by type. T2 ammo would, ofcourse, be the most easily obtained BPO, since you burn through it so fast. And why don't NPCs sell ANY T2? Is CCP going to try to tell us that Lai Dai doesn't want or need to sell Cerbs? Originally by:** Dark Shikari Istvaan Shogaatsu's ego, when combined with a veldspar asteroid, would create 500 titans. Too bad he's never mined. RAWR!11 Sig Hijack!11 - Imaran
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2006.04.30 23:11:00 - [119] As a reasonable estimate, double the price of T2 if it's only BPC's. Think about how you've complicated the supply chain, and the on-off nature building it will become. Beyond the mass quiting of T2 producers. "The Human eye is a marvelous device, with a very little effort it can overlook all but the most glaring injustice" - Quellchrist Falconer
Torze	Posted - 2006.04.30 23:15:00 - [120] It seems to me that the biggest problem with T2 (besides people whining about the prices...most of which would charge the same if they had the bpo) is how long it takes to make the items. If the production times were sped up, then the prices would come down.

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