Cyberbullying is a thing for sure, but this isn't it. For one, it is extremely difficult to walk away from most cyberbullying, as its typically carried out by real-life acquaintances, and thus it is easy to pursue the victim across various media platforms. Unlike this situation, which was a single event between complete strangers with more than adequate tools to end any and all contact from the other party.

not that simple mate. Its the same for people who get harassed on social media, they can chose to walk away any time they like, but people still get into hotwater. Look up cases of facebook trolling etc for reference. Its not really the same thing as what happened here as we can differentiate between a troll laying it on thick on facebook to someone whose friend just killed themselves and an EVE manipulator. In this case though lots of grey zones have been entered which make it really difficult for both CCP and outside observers to clearlyt differentiate between the game and IRL.

There are 2 camps on this case.

Camp 1 - the it was a game scam and the bonus room is levelled against the in game character
Camp 2 - it was a "cyber" assault on someone emotionally and was levelled against the person driving the character and not the in game character

It will be interesting to see the official CCP position on all of this.

Oh buddy, buddy. Its not MY credibility. Thats not how it works my friend.

They follow up EVERY tip. EVERY. SINGLE. ONE. Its their job. They have a list, they go through every single line.

They will come. Americans dont mess around with pedophelia, online luring, **** and abuse of victims. E1 is smack down in the middle of this. And I would not associate with him. Not when FBI starts digging.

yes, the whole "in a video game" bit is where the bonus room falls down, its not in a video game is it ? If it was all over EVE chat, in game chat, in game messaging then yes thats in a game. however it it not. It is taken to out game comms for a very good reason which should be obvious to all of us and CCP.

Keep pushing that line mate. Maybe it will make you sleep better.

Meanwhile, I will sleep better knowing that I did everything i could to bring down a dangerous online predator, who lures, victimises and abuses vulnerable victims online, possibly underaged. And who knows? Maybe there is a whole ring of you doing this - like a pedophile ring - same methodology. E1 could be playing more then 1 game, looking for victims in all sorts of environments.

Lie? No no no buddy.

Where a crime has been committed, or i think a crime has been committed, it is my duty to report it.

I call it the way a see it. Dangerous online predator luring helpless victims to emotionally **** them.

You really don't get it?
I'll grant that the victim was, frankly, stupid. But that's beside the point. More importantly he was gullible and easily manipulated - just the kind of people E1 looks for.
People who've played this game for a while and intend to keep doing so for the foreseeable future assign value to these space pixels that oh-so-many on this thread claim they can just walk away from in the blink of an eye.
For all you know his whole world would've collapsed in his eyes if he lost it all and had to start over. And that's exactly what E1 and Co. are hoping for, nay, counting on. And that is exactly why he couldn't let go, couldn't leave.
They are predators who get their jollies from pushing people's buttons until they either 1) get sufficient entertainment value out of them or 2) push the right buttons to break them. This is a great example of social engineering at it's worst.

My personal stance is that E1 (and Co) should be permanently banned for repeated conduct completely outside the realm of common human decency. The in-game asset scamming part I'm completely fine with OTOH.

if this were done via in game chat and the "bonus room antics" were completely in character for the game avatars being respresented I would have nuked this threadnaught 150 pages ago and said move on nothing to see here. But the way this is executed means you can't do it this way in game because the EULA would tear you a new one. It is impossible for waht has transiupred here to be done so completely in context of a game.

Tear harvesting through suicide gank, corp scams, awox style, wardec, miner nuking etc is all action levelled directly against an in game character. Pulling someone to TS to humilaite them is not humiliating an in game character is it ??? its ripping a strip of a real living breathing human and that is where the line gets crossed.

you can't say this was an in game stunt levelled at an in game avatar, the evidence to hand proves that, you have got real humans ripping someone and a contestant incting racial hatred and threatening all kinds of batshit crazy stuff. If the contestand was shouting I am going to get my ass over to Gallente space, dock up in Rens and beat the crap out of scotty the station master thats in game.................... what E1 et al did was not game related in anyway shape or form on TS, what the contestant did equally in his response to the situation wasn't either.

The scam itself is perfectly ok, the post scam actions are what brings this debacle into question

*sigh*

I see the U.S. prime contingent are back with the old the-victim-is-stupid-so-what-happened-to-him-is-perfectly-justified schtick.

Hurting stupid people is actually much more heinous than taking advantage of someone that should know better. This ain't some slapstick comedy on the telly. This is real life. When you hurt people in real life it's bad.

When a game company allows you to use their game to fish for victims, it's even worse.

Do you people have any morality left?

Mr Epeen

Yes, that one.

He didn't compare pedophilia with loss of space ships in any way, not for significance or context.

Dont you understand that?

Please, tell me you can understand that.

Seriously though, it's CCP's game, and they have the right to remove anyone they find "distasteful." We are just asking that they acknowledge this behavior as not only distasteful but detrimental to the continued health and growth of their game, and to take appropriate action to preserve said game.

Yaknow, after 150+ pages, all hope of effective communication is effectively dead. We're at the "dead horse beating" and "mental ************" cycle of posting.

What?! But that again, is a completely ridiculous conclusion! He did not even remotely compare those.

I'm sitting here literally shaking my head repeatedly trying to comprehend how it is you can so absolutely misread and miscomprehend what someone else is LITERALLY writing. As in what is there in the words. As in the objective expression, as a sequence of letters that when combined form words that have specific definitions.

Its like you are reading with your imagination. I don't see where the connection is between what you THINK you are reading, and what is actually there in letters and words for you to read.

I need to go for a walk. Seriously, this is upsetting to me. What is the point of language and communication if you DONT READ the words and understand them as close to the meaning and intent as possible of the person who expressed them. I mean why else even fking bother?

I mean its like if this was one of Erotica1's Bonus Room tests, you would fail it.
If I showed you that text and asked you to write out for me what you understand it to mean damn Im afraid to even know what that might be. Language. Do. You. Use. It.

I'm a nurse practitioner. I do shifts at the nearby ER, and for people with prescription privs, it's a 24 hour shift.

Ok, I will translate for you.
He made no contextual or value comparison between pedophilia and spaceships, whatsoever.
Nor did he in anyway imply that Erotica1 or anyone else is even remotely related to pedophilia
I say that with all sincerity. There was no cause for alarm or getting upset at him.
Its not there in the text. None of that is there or the case.

He did not mean or say what you "think" he did, in anyway, shape or form.

"Ya guys no where except for the bolded underlined part where I would laugh and applaud him being kicked! or last night when I said id be content if he were assaulted at fanfest (page 100 or so) and Id be totally chill if that assault was a murder(page 105 or so)""

Gotta be kidding me, now some guy sits next to me in the library and is passed out snoring.

You might be in for some trouble then friend-o.

18 U.S. Code, Section 1001

(a) Except as otherwise provided in this section, whoever, in any matter within the jurisdiction of the executive, legislative, or judicial branch of the Government of the United States, knowingly and willfullyGÇö

(1) falsifies, conceals, or covers up by any trick, scheme, or device a material fact;
(2) makes any materially false, fictitious, or fraudulent statement or representation
(3) makes or uses any false writing or document knowing the same to contain any materially false, fictitious, or fraudulent statement or entry;

shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 5 years or, if the offense involves international or domestic terrorism (as defined in section 2331), imprisoned not more than 8 years, or both. If the matter relates to an offense under chapter 109A, 109B, 110, or 117, or section 1591, then the term of imprisonment imposed under this section shall be not more than 8 years.

Having observed the language you have used to spout nonsense throughout this thread, you may well come away with some legal trouble of your own.

Thanks for vouching I am not him, or his wife. The similarity in names is amusing, but entirely coincidental.

I just really don't agree with what Erotica1 is doing.

On a moral level and from what I perceive as really serious problems with the legality of it.

I understand that some people enjoy the recordings, but they genuinely seriously make me cringe on a very fundamental level.

I don't like people being exploited so severely for their stupidity, lack of understanding, or possible labileness.
This is a game. I dont want people to suffer in it like this, no matter who they are.

I appreciate that EVE involves, endorses and supports scamming. I appreciate that player aggression is also one of the things that makes this game great. But listening to these recordings I can't, as a person, support it. To me, its like standing by and watching some weak kid get bullied, or an elderly woman being harassed. I hate using the term, but thats exactly how it makes me "feel".

I understand the circumstances are different.
The financial element of the assets is minute, but its something I want gone from the game.

I can't ever just co-exist with it in EVE. I will always resist it in anyway that I can for as long as either it, or I, whichever comes first, are still in the game.

Pages 102-104 for context friend. I wasn't the only one who caught on to what you said. If you forgot what you typed last night and the context it was in you should go back and reread it. I didn't forget which is why I found it so quickly and easily.

Good, go ahead, this'll be interesting.

More than 150 pages of posts and nothing constructive yet.

I said what I had to say earlier. I had to puke multiple times because of the pretendingly honest posts from Erotica 1.
But I will not join the debates again.

Now, I am waiting for CCP to share with us what they have decided on this matter. I am quite surprised it took them so long, especially as they were aware of this recording for one entire month, as it appears to be.

Having not seen a significant word from them yet, I am inclined to believe they don't care and will endorse what happened eventually. As I will certainly not find my place in a community ready to welcome such behaviors without raising an eyebrow, I have to act by the only mean of action that could potentially be effective, my wallet.

So, I am starting the count down now: 20 hours till I cancel my accounts definitely.

I know, this desperate move is useless, but all that evil needs to prevail is for the good men to do nothing, I am sure you know this quote.
And no, you cannot have my stuff, without any sign of CCP within 20 hours, I will trash and biomass everything in a final demonstration of the lack of value of virtual assets in a game. We shouldn't have had to discuss for more than 150 pages here, as there is no admittable debate to have when the dignity of a human being and the decency of a community are at stake.

Has CCP made a comment on this issue since the first one telling us all to be polite to each other? 158 pages and it's still going strong.

It does seem like the use of this 'bonus room' idea is premeditated in that I think others have said the conversation was moved from EVE voice to a TS channel. So Erotica 1 probably knew beforehand that there could be some comeback on him if he conducted his actions through EVE voice.

I also don't understand why Erotica 1 didn't realise it had gone too far once the victims wife intervened and started asking Erotica 1 what was happening. Would he like this to happen to one of his family members, wife or children?

A lot of replies are focusing on the anger of the victim directed at Erotica 1 on the sound recording and on possibly violent suggestions towards Erotica 1 within replies to this post. People will react in different ways to being bullied and some will react aggressively and/or with violence. It's completely understandable if you mess with people to expect a reaction. Play with fire and you will get burned.

Hmm, more good point from you!

Is nice to have some reasonable discussion in this thread lol Seems most posters here are closer to "idiots" than anyone involved in the original bonus room issue were.

You're absolutely correct with most of your points I think (I still disagree with your assesment of these emotional gamers as being unstable though - least not all of them). People will always rage in any game, no matter the circumstance of the game. But I feel it should come down to allowing only what is reasonable. Lost ISK to a scam? Got ganked? Then raged afterward? Too bad imo, those are reasonable circumstances within the boundaries of the game.

Allow yourself to be dragged through a silly thing on TS, acting out humiliating scenarios, affecting others around you IRL? Then have the whole episode made public for further humiliation? Hmmm. I think this begins to step into unreasonable territory, despite the 'victim' being able to end it at anytime. Chicken or the egg, I guess. Should we allow people to be placed in that situation to begin with when we know there will always be people who will come out the other side hurt in RL, regardless of their mental stability?

I dunno. But I look forward to hearing CCP's take eventually.

The thing is though that in RL (at least here) Casinos are now bound by law to stop problem gamblers and addicts from gaming when they're spotted. Same with pubs and alcohol - the establishment is ultimately responsible for how drunk they allow someone to become.

We're seeing the same thing creep in online, where the sites are ultimately being asked to take responsibility for people who cannot meter their own interactions within the game.

Even if what you said is true, if homo"phobia" was a real fear and "racism" wasn't innate in everyone in at least the pretense of social outgrouping. What does it matter?

Do juries decide sentencing based on the pathology of the victim?

CCP has to take action because this game is rated pegi 12 and allows minors to play. If this happens to a child they are royally screwed and rightfully so. The only way for them to allow this behaviour is to raise the age limit up to 18 or 21 depending on country. Which they I doubt they will do.

You can claim that no one would subject a child to this but that would be a baseless claim. You can claim that this can happen anyway, while this is true CCP will still be held accountable for the fact that they allow this sort of behaviour in a game that allows minors to play.Online Interactions are not rated, but you can't ignore them either. Especially since EO gameplay is mostly online interactions.

As for choice, yes Sohkar had a choice he could have stopped it. Erotica 1 also had a choice, he could have stopped it too. Neither choices are consequential to the question at hand. Does the Eve Online community think what Erotica 1 has done is acceptable?

"So, I know my client burned his victims alive, but after all they said a naughty word in the past so... it was ok"

Harassment is harassment. Harming CCP's reputation and the reputation of EvE is harming CCP's reputation and the reputation of EvE.

I don't really have a side in this, I have opinions about it though. It's just mildly irritating that people are proposing that everything which happened was retroactively justified because in a rage the scammee said bad words

This is just going round and round.
Angry shouty brigade says "bullying scumbag!"
sensible people say "its a game not reality"
Angry shouty brigade yell odd words like torture! cyber bullying! breachs of Eula! bad publicity!
sensible people patatiently explain why thats not true and in fact diminishs the meanings of those words and insults real victims of them.

then everyone goes to bed and the same stuff gets written by 2 new groups of people.

Do any of the folk speaking up for Ero think that the making fun of a person's speech impediment was acceptable?

I would like to think that even the most ardent 'Eve Online laissez faire' folk find the part of that whole sorry episode unacceptable.

Yes he was obviously. It comes down to reasonable perceptions. Would you want a loved one to be subjected to similar abuse in a computer game? The majority of people certainly would answer in the negative.

One can surmise the intentions of Erotica quite easily by their actions. A normal person listening to the recording would reasonably be expected to conclude that the intention of the people in the recording was to humiliate, abuse, insult, tease and make fun of this person. A reasonable person when asked if that would constitute an intention to cause harm to that person would very likely respond in the affirmative.

Stop trying to justify your unjustifiable behavior by calling the victim a 'client', you don't fool me and you likely don't fool even yourself. Your behavior is extremely poor and this is probably a wake up call for you to reassess it.

230 pages... is this the biggest threadnaught ever?

Ive had my say but the only way you are going to stop this type of behavior is to stop scamming. Its the scamming part that causes people to act in the way they do. If scamming isn't banned then this will continue to happen to many other people, and in fact thinking about that makes me feel very uncomfortable.

I am surprised what lengths people will and have gone to for virtual money. Scary really..

I think those "sensible" people are nitpicking across the board to try and deflect from the question at hand. Do you think Erotica 1's behaviour and the bonus room is acceptable?

How could he be banned if there were no rules in place forbidding the behavior prior to this incident?

To me the question became

should behavior like this or worse than this warrant a reanalysis of CCP's stance

I pointed out how difficult this would be in that current employees of CCP engaged in just this sort of behavior.

Should you be in this thread at all if you have such a fundamental deficiency in reading comprehension?

We all have questions

"We must reject the idea that every time a law's broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions."

-A mister Ronald Regan.

So no CCP involvement or opinion of this type of behaviour originating in or taking place in their game? Well I might have some incentive for you, I forwarded all these links and audio files to the ESRB for review of your Teen rating. Perhaps a Mature rating will be more suitable, though will no doubt limit your player base potential. CCP, get control of this.

Note, thanks Prince Kobol for reminding me of PEGI, they too have since been contacted with links to audio, forum, etc for review and hopefully action.

Whilst much of this is true, do we as a community really want somebody who uses our game to find people in order to humiliate and cause as much mental pain and anguish as he can in order to for-fill his sick twisted pleasures?

The reason he takes it out of game is because he knows, or thinks CCP can not / will not act and for no other reason.

So let me get this right.

You want CCP to ban someone who has broken no EULA or TOS rules. Someone who asked a willing contestant to read out the code, a few wikipedia pages and to sing two songs, one of which from a disney children show.

Is this what you are asking them to do?

He is a bad person.... because of what he did and CCP should ban him because he is detrimental to the health of the community.

Pretty damn clear, 'feelings' have nothing to do with it and neither do witches

Heaven forbid we prevent one dickhead from sabatoging the work and cooperation of a group of players potentially reaching the thousands.

If you set up a charade with a neutral alt, who does the voice in the recording?

The way you are trying here so hard I would watch your back as mom might enter room and take your power cord.

WTF dude. Add something and stop trying so hard cause you all look even more stupid.

You got to be E1s alt

So you call us morons for having opinion different than yours, at this point you just sperg post for your amusement and some how being Australian makes you special?

Yeah. Lulz.

Well considering a Former CSM and the current active leader of the most powerful player bloc in EVE actually taunted and encouraged a guy to commit suicide, I'm not sure why we're suprised at the prevalence of this disgusting behavior in our community.

It is a cancer, and ALL of it must be removed

Well that's when I know Baltec is on damage control Lolz

I made about 500 sales of "Redeemers" in Geddon body and never ever had to give somebody the real thing.

This crap about scam must work theory is just one pile of dogpoo and jita local tears simply destroy it.

Personally I think this is the instance where this is needed before any real harm comes to anyone because of this game.

I hear a guy manipulate somebody to intentionally humiliate him using in game leverage with false promise and going public on top of it.
You got to be a total douche not to even consider it as something wrong.

I could care less about lost pixels but if I read that they use this chat room in a way that can harm people and intentionally set everything up to dodge ban hammer then no matter what some twisted individuals think this is a case for outrage and I'm glad that at least part of this already ****** up community is able to pull they eyes out of their ass and realize that things went too far.

Go chase a kangaroo and stop acting like wrong is ok because it's cool.

Many reasons actually. The first being that where their very own TOS/EULA state that any game items are the property of CCP games. This instantly gives them a say over this incident where it is ingame items being used as leverage to humiliate and torture the victim. Secondly the fact that the predator is using eve online - once again property of CCP games to find victims and kick start his sick perverted hobby.

If I loan somebody my car and they run somebody over, am I not partially to blame or even involved as it was my car?

And I'm ok with it because I stick to the rules and simply thrive on stupidity.
When somebody calls me out I send a hi five for not being a ****** but I don't go into lengths E1 goes to humiliate people for his own and publicly distributed "amusement"

I play this GAME as it was designed to be played because I know the difference between pixels and RL.
Some of you here need a fuckin doc as you believe New Eden is real.

Fucktards.

Oh here we go. Offended by stereotypes yet it's ok to humiliate people and going public with it.

Needed only 2 posts to get it out of your hypocrite narrow minded skull.

Thx for tuning in and literally destroying yourself and proving how right I am.

No, you said he was kicked for bragging but didn't state bragging about what.

Mynnna said he was kick for bragging about his actions in in Jesters Blog

E1 has stated he was not kick and was asked to stay by a number of Directors.

So are you saying E1 is lying?

Damage control attempt failed.
Move on, keep proving us how special you are adding nothing of merit to this discussion.

Oh yeah. I forgot. This world is so perfect and people are so nice to each other that we all stay of trouble and nobody gets hurt by other peoples bad intentions.

Wtf are you on idiot? Turn on tv and see what's up. This ain't utopia and people hurt other people in many ways.

Question is what will you turd do about it.
We all know what will happen when **** hits the fan for you but showing some empathy seems to be like a holy motherfucking grail of today's society.

You dont know what is going on in that persons life to make him vulnerable but someday it will happen to you or someone you love. Either way it doesnt change that it is sick to take advantage of the weaker among us and to delight in torturing the weaker of us. Just makes me nauseous.

There is no side.
One gets perma ban for doing this deliberately other gets a warning or a shortie for going bonanza (although he can be justified because he was simply pushed to the limit)

Is swearing not allowed or it's another thing you believe should get me banned?

You pinned a guy against a wall with a two-ton truck to within an inch of his life, as a result of what he said on the internet.

That is literally how a game works.

A. if he goes telling how it's set up to bypass in game laws (he's luring people out of logged comms) to avoid ban then yeah he should get kicked because he knows his actions are wrong from the start and the only purpose he is to inflict some sort of harassment for personal amusement.

B. If I do it in a manner that deliberately tries to avoid in game laws yet you use this platform as a ignition of this whole process then yeah. No different that a botter.

C. I'm within CCP rules so your attempt is nothing but personal and has no ground for them to even look at it.

I'm not thick it's just you have no idea what are you talking about because E1 actions all base from within this game and it is his platform to lure targets out to avoid banhammer.

253 pages!! What the hell. Someone needs to kill this over played topic already!

You could have been contributing to the pirate faction rebalance, or the massive reprocessing rebalance, you know stuff that is actually important and going to affect people in game. But instead you are all giving Erotica even more pleasure and fame.

It isn't "ban players that I don't like".

It is "ban players whos only purpose is to glorify bullying others".

I answer questions you throw tantrums and wonder why I don't even bother in most cases.
Brainz need oil I'm telling you. Works wonders.

Plato is rolling in his grave.

It is such a sad and pathetic thing to do , and I'm shocked so many people are defending it.

There is no reason to argue with people that have no sense of reasoning or logic.

You litterally strawman a post that called you out on strawmanning a previous post.

So don't act like you are the one walking away, you aren't.

Yeah, and who's talking here about scamming in the first place??
If you would bother to read what people are writing (especially since you are calling me out then my posts would be the base here) then you would know that I am in favor of scamming as I even do it myself from time to time.

So next time at least make sense if you are too lazy to know who you are replying to blunt RAZOR.

Are you sure he has not broken any rules...

Did you write the rules?

The section where it suggests he could of broken the rules has been posted a number of times.

As with most EULA/TOS, it is vague whether it could be applied to E1, the decision on whether it can be applied is not down to you, me or anybody else here but by CCP and CCP alone.

I imagine right now that is what CCP are doing, deciding whether they should apply those rules to E1 or not.

Yeah and that's where it all starts and no other way around it. Platform of choice.

But then again. you know better so enjoy your lollerwaffles.

0

Bye.

You are just mad you can't argue against me without insults and strawmanning.

Assuming you deserve anything more. Cute.

To begin with if you read my opening post no where do I state my own opinion.

Yes my opinion is that he should be banned, he took something which I proud we have and need to keep in game, something which I do myself, something that is unique to Eve.. scamming, and crossed the line.

Yes it is only my opinion and luckily I am able to voice it , just as other people are allowed to voice so long as it does not break any forum rules.

If he has broken the rules, so much the better as it no longer becomes a morale or ethical issue for CCP lifting the burden on them somewhat.

However unlike a few others I believe that rules and laws are not written in stone. Life is not Black and White. Rules and Laws can not account for every action and situation that can occur.

You will always have exceptions hence why rules and laws are changed, modified, added, removed over time.

E1 deliberately takes his scams out of game for the sole reason to cause as much humiliation as he can thinking that he will not / could not be banned.

Why record it, post it on a website if you are not out to cause maximum humiliation?

Those saying that he only did so because Eve sucks sucks (which it does) is a very poor excuse. He does so to record everything, unless you can now record using Eve Voice?

He was even kicked from Widot, which is a cesspool of a forum because even they did not like what he was doing. Believe me it takes some doing to get kicked from there and perma banned.

E1 claims he left, it was his choice and was told by directors to stay, yet Mynnna stated he was kick due to him boasting about his antics.

Who do you believe, E1 or Mynnna?

E1 is not good for our community and in no way enhances it. All he is doing is reinforcing the view that many outside of Eve already have which is we all deranged psychopaths trying to make life hell for everybody in anyway we can when in reality we have a great community for the most part.

You just strawmanned again. Way to prove my point. All I had to do was give you one liners. Imagine if I actually tried to give you a reasonable argument.

Now you see why is pointless to take you seriously.

Strawman...

You keep using this word as if you think you know what it means.

Could you tell us please? And also, provide an example. Thanks. Just so that we know how we should be arguing with you from now on.

Not to subject Sohkar to a ban will open a door nobody wants to see. There is no excuse for ever using racist language.

For that I believe he should be perma banned, of course many disagree which is there right.

You may not organize nor be a member of any corporation or group within EVE Online that is based on or advocates any anti-ethnic, anti-gay, anti-religious, racist, sexist or other hate-mongering philosophies

Until you can do that you have no business having your own opinion, much less stating it.

Physically yes. But mentally?

Ero could have stopped the whole thing at any point, but he chose to continue, so if CCP decides to take any action against him, then he is also responsible for the consequences.


I assume Ero is a grown man.

Edited for clarity

As in my example, entering into marriage union with a husband who later begins to torture her, is also voluntary.

It is immaterial to Erotica1s conduct fullfilling the definition of torture provided above, and as demonstrated in my reasoning here:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400021#post4400021

Stop signing your posts, it makes you look like an arrogant douche.

Where CCP should step in is when a players actions (either in or out of game) threaten to damage their intellectual property. I imagine that Riptard is reaching out to every news outlet he can reach to try to spread this story right now.

In my opinion what CCP should do is make a public example of E1. A lifetime ban, bio massing all his accounts and assets, a permanent ban on his name, address, cards GÇô everything. The reason given should be GÇ£Bringing CCPGÇÖs IP into disreputeGÇ¥.

If he was advocating these views then yes I would, however he is reporting what happened. The two whilst can look similar are completely different.

I doubt anybody would in any seriousness would say that Jester is in anyway shape or form advocating any of groups or philosophies

Insults and ad hominem disregarded..

Well since I am not Jester I can only hazard a guess.

I will guess and say he is giving Sokhar the benefit of the doubt because he was under severe distress and had been driven to the point where he lost all control.

Now not knowing Sokhar personally I have no idea if he has ever voiced these kind of view points before in a calm and rational manner.

Whilst I personally feel these views are abhorrent, I do consider myself a fair person and understand that under certain circumstances when a person is in a highly emotional state then can say things that they regret later on.

However with that and still giving him the benefit of the doubt that he only said the things that he did due to the pressure he was under and his state of mind, he should still receive a ban if E1 does.

If I ask my daughter to sing and I give her a donut, but in the end I dont give here anything.

Is this mental abuse? Should I go to jail because of it?


Tell me about my wrong doings please.

It is ad hominem. You apparently don't know the definition of the term.
Just like how you didn't know the definitions of the terms "sadism" and "masochism" earlier.

ad ho-+mi-+nem
[ad hom-uh-nuhm -nem, ahdGÇÉ] Show IPA
adjective
1.
appealing to one's prejudices, emotions, or special interests rather than to one's intellect or reason.
2.
attacking an opponent's character rather than answering his argument.

My replies are based on them whether I like them or not so go sperg **** more you uslless impersonator.

It is a valid argument, one I have head many times.

I usually reply with when you were a teenager how many times did you said I hate you mum / dad? Does that mean that as a teenager you truly hated them?

How many times have you heard somebody say "I wish you were dead" Did they really mean they wished they would die?

How many people have said in the heat of the moment to a partner I hate you only to then go on and live happy joyful lives together?

I have been called a scouse ******* a number of times, does that mean the person has a hatred of scouses or did they call me that because I am actually scouse?

The answer is there is no way of telling, especially the heat of the moment. It usually something which shows overtime by a person actions.

The scam part is fine, this is the part that isn't acceptable for me, and why I consider the bahaviour of Ero and his buddies to be beyond the pale.

"...Early in the proceedings, the victim admits to having a minor speech impediment that quickly becomes apparent. One of the instigators pounces on this and suggests that any word the victim cannot pronounce properly, he be made to look up the definition for and read that definition as well..."

The above quote is taken from Jester's blog on the subject.

Nope, I have really bad hearing in real life, are you saying that Jester made that part up?

Like I said, both Erotica 1 and his victims are at fault. The victims deserve zero sympathy. They knew exactly what they were getting into yet let their greed turn them into idiots. However what Erotica 1 does is just pure sadism with no rhyme or reason to it. He could get the same results (scamming people out of everything they own) by merely asking them to do the first part of the game (showing full faith). This would be perfectly fine. Asking them to do or say humiliating things is where Erotica 1 crosses the line from scammer to sadist.

Let me ask this question.

If E1 was actually serious about running for CSM and proceeded to gain a seat his real name would become public.

What if then one of the people who he recorded and posted on the internet decided to get revenge and found out were he worked and proceeded to inform then of what he does and they found it to be distasteful and it impacted on his real life would this be acceptable?

After all it was E1 who posted the material to begin with and E1 would of been well aware that his real name would be made available to all.

I do not think he deserves a ban within the current set of the games rules. As I said before, victims willingly put themselves through his horrible mind games. They can opt out of playing or leave at anytime they chose. What I would like to see happen is for CCP to change the rules, and if Erotica 1 keeps doing what he's doing, then and only then would he deserve a ban.

The problem is not that Erotica 1 is breaking the rules. It's that he's doing something we should have rules against, which is his method of humiliating players. I have nothing against scamming at all (and this is coming from someone who was scammed in the past). What I do have a problem with is humiliating someone until they break.

Only the first part of these bonus rooms is a scam. The rest is shitting all over someone until they drown in it for several hours.

Well it was E1 who made this material in the first place, then posted it, surely he must take responsibility for his actions?

And another business day passes in CCP Iceland with no acknowledgement whatsoever, other that falcon shutting down duplicate threads. Eterne spends his day tweeting about how awesome Fanfest is and commenting on how cute some animae shot also tweeted.

But zero about this scandal, in any way.
I know it will take likely take weeks to make some decision on this, but it is terrible business practice from a PR perspective not to acknowledge there is a crisis.

My logic is that E1 made the recording public, Riptard is merely trying to draw attention to it. I would argue that any damage caused to CCP's reputation would be the result of E1's actions not Riptards.

I want CCP to make the ban to limit the damage and if they were to also ban Riptard it would have the opposite effect - "CCP bans whistle blower who uncovers sick truth about EVE Online" wouldn't really limit the damage would it?

I'm not claiming it's fair to ban E1 for this, I'm saying CCP can and should do it to protect their bottom line.

Essentially yes. The final policy would need to be far more specific as someone can interpret humiliating themselves or someone else as losing an expensive ship to a suicide gank, which would be bad for the metagame.



It would certainly have to be something very specific. I'm not quite sure how you could stop someone from humilating themselves. Perhaps it would have to be a rule pertaining to how a scam is conducted? I'm not sure it would be done. That is something that is up to CCP should they decide this is an issue.




I agree. Erotica 1 has not broken any rules to our knowledge. If CCP decides his fate solely based on the rules, then he does not deserve a ban. Even if CCP were to ban him on the grounds that he was doing something morally reprehensible, I would not be in favor of it. I feel EVE and the community would be better off without him, but I don't want to see him banned for reasons outside of the rules. Why?

First off all, I'm not sure if CCP would even be legally allowed to do such a thing. Erotica 1 agreed to the EULA, and if he is banned from the game for a reason not listed in the rules, that could be a potential lawsuit. Even if it doesn't lead to legal action, it would be a dangerous precedent to set.

All in all, no matter how much I dislike Erotica 1 and his cohorts, none of them should be banned at the moment.

Just looking at the comments, EVE is getting a ton of bad press from this. All these negative comments being made about EVE.

I been following this since the other evening when it broke out and I seriously believe the time has come to lay the subject to rest. 287 pages worth of reading is a lot for some, other a speed reading course. However tho' the issue here is whether or not if the victim in this case was being subjected to "torture" to which I think he was as far as mental torture was concerned, no physical torture. However on the other hand this to me is the most unethical use of a scam and then turn right around and go outside of eve to using TS3 for two hours or so to subject the victim to mental torture on this scale is wrong.

In my opinion however the victim had every right to refuse to continue which he didn't, Erotica1 and his cohorts kept edgeing the victim onwards to past the point of no return, Erotica1 DID in fact commit a crime of cyber bullying, and there fore has opened himself and others with him to possible charges.

IF that were the case being then, the community at large should petition on the behalf of the victim to have his entire inventory, isk and what ever else he lost returned to him notwithstanding, AND to let CCP know that this is unacceptable to the community at large. The use of Teamspeak outside the game is a matter of record for a court of law to decide on the consequences and maybe a jail term as called for earlier in this thread.

Eve is a game of course, but sometimes some people just go to the extremes sometimes and push the limits as to what is and what isn't acceptable behavior and this is a classic case of pushing beyond an acceptable boundary to which Erotica1 and his cohorts have shown in a public manner.

I know CCP has been rather silent about this matter and as one said they will release some kind of statement in the coming days ahead.

snipped for sanity.

Sorry! Still not reading :D



Ok, I peaked, did you just say "sperging"?

MY LAWWDDYY THE IRONY!

Yes, you where.

+1

Woah, seriously? Have you read the Eve Online terms of service?

"Failure to comply with these regulations can result in the immediate termination of your account and you will forfeit all unused access time to the game. No refunds will be given.

"1. You may not abuse, harass or threaten another player...
"2. You may not use any abusive, defamatory, ethnically or racially offensive, harassing, harmful, hateful, obscene, offensive, sexually explicit, threatening or vulgar language..."

Now, you may argue that some of this occurred outside of the Eve Online servers, but there is also no doubt that parts of the behaviors were simultaneously occurring on the Eve Online servers. So the abusive/harassing behavior was in both spheres. Or are you seriously arguing the equivalent of "I beat him up off school grounds, so when he opened his locker to give me his lunch money, no beatings occurred on school grounds?"

I'm going to offer one last analogy; if say I was a judge in a federal court room, and this particular case was brought before me. I would listen to both the prosecution and defense. I would have ask for witnesses and sit a jury. After all been said in sworn testimony and the jury hands down a decision the what do you think would have been the outcome?

In my most honest opinion, in this case BOTH sides would have lost for the following reason, that notwithstanding the victim in this case did NOT show evidence of torture whether physical or emotional, 2)that the perpetrator of the crime did in FACT commit a crime beyond reasonable doubt with a recording which is debatable to being introduced as evidence in my court, 3) the victim knowingly knew what he was getting into with the oppurtunity to withdraw at anytime but didn't.

Therefore, it is within a reasonable finding that the criminal act of subjecting the victim to mental torture would be unfounded for a lack of evidence and the case would have been dismissed without a summary judgement. Meaning again both sides lost accordingly in their arguments and the jury would have to debate the merits of the case based on factual evidence.

As I said previously I am more into copyrights and interlectual property rights than I am in this case.

Support Perma ban for Erotica 1. Totally crossed the line. It's getting to the point, I am ashamed to tell people I play this game.

It's not torture.

Torture, is the immense headache inflicted on anyone who tries to follow the logic in the idiocy you are spewing.

Last time I checked with any normal person, using the victim being stupid as an excuse for abuse wasn't really kosher.

Mr Epeen

Sir!

Do it again!