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Baldour Ngarr
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Posted - 2006.05.03 06:56:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: spiderbaby
Originally by: Danton Marcellus
People don't want the one superhub, did you not get that from the post? People want diversity and movement, not some stagnant mall.
One post represents what every EVE player wants does it? OK...
Meanwhile back in the real world, every time CCP try and de-centralise things to remove a hub that's formed.... another one forms. Personally I tend to gague the wants/needs of a group by what they actually do, not by what one single person says they want.
Actually, you probably will find that a huge number of EVE players will tell you they don't want a superhub; the very same players who formed the damn superhub by all wanting to trade in the same place.
Who said the human race is intelligent?
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"I tried strip mining, but I lost, and it's cold flying around in space naked." |
Raven Aure
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Posted - 2006.05.03 06:59:00 -
[32]
Originally by: spiderbaby
Originally by: Danton Marcellus
People don't want the one superhub, did you not get that from the post? People want diversity and movement, not some stagnant mall.
One post represents what every EVE player wants does it? OK...
Meanwhile back in the real world, every time CCP try and de-centralise things to remove a hub that's formed.... another one forms. Personally I tend to gague the wants/needs of a group by what they actually do, not by what one single person says they want.
And to think I made that point in the first reply to this thread. Trade hubs will form through sheer market dynamics. You will get a "Jita" regardless of what you do to Jita. You can either embrace this or fight against it.
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Originally by: Jim McGregor
Most people are in write-mode only in these forums
105 days and still a hijack virgin... |
Nyphur
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Posted - 2006.05.03 07:09:00 -
[33]
People trade where the most players are. It's a simple idea - the more players that live in the system, the more potential buyers that are too lazy to move to another system to buy stuff. So the trade hubs will form around the places in high sec where the use of products is. That means systems with a lot of agents etc.
So I think we're getting the card before the horse on this one. It's not that the laggy systems are laggy because there are agents at a trade hub, it's that the trade hub formed in areas with agents. Moving the agents will shift the trade hubs.
Eve-Tanking.com - For the ultimate tanking spreadsheet and resources. |
Calleb
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Posted - 2006.05.03 07:24:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Calleb on 03/05/2006 07:24:19
I buy and sell alot of stuff, and have only visited Jita a few times (to get some rare stuff). I realy dont see the point. Any bargain you want can either be got from your local markets or over the trade channels. By the time you have spent 30 mins going to jita to buy or sell, thats 30 mins worth of travel time you need to convert into your profit margins and add to your totals.
I for one am more than happy with the way things are now, as there is much more local trade than ever before, so more people must feel the same way as I do.
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Lunarmyth
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Posted - 2006.05.03 07:25:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Nyphur
People trade where the most players are. It's a simple idea - the more players that live in the system, the more potential buyers that are too lazy to move to another system to buy stuff. So the trade hubs will form around the places in high sec where the use of products is. That means systems with a lot of agents etc.
So I think we're getting the card before the horse on this one. It's not that the laggy systems are laggy because there are agents at a trade hub, it's that the trade hub formed in areas with agents. Moving the agents will shift the trade hubs.
CCP moved all the lvl 3 and lvl 4 agents from systems near Jita before the highway system change. Jita as a super trade hub was result in player selection after Yulai. Agent runners have nothing to day with the formation of this trade hub. This time it is the production corps/allaince who picked the system.
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Nyphur
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Posted - 2006.05.03 07:30:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Lunarmyth
CCP moved all the lvl 3 and lvl 4 agents from systems near Jita before the highway system change. Jita as a super trade hub was result in player selection after Yulai. Agent runners have nothing to day with the formation of this trade hub. This time it is the production corps/allaince who picked the system.
People buy there because of its proximity to their home systems. Their home systems are picked because they contain factories in high sec or ice belts or good agents, whatever it is. Maybe Jita doesn't have many good agents but its neighbours sure do and it accounts for a good deal of traffic.
Eve-Tanking.com - For the ultimate tanking spreadsheet and resources. |
Miss Anthropy
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Posted - 2006.05.03 07:34:00 -
[37]
Why not have a seperate server just for Jita? We could have Tranquility and Jita!!! Just kidding. I know it's bad there sometimes but generally I just put up with it for the short time I'm there to buy/sell the stuff I need.
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"I know the human being and fish can coexist peacefully." łGeorge W. Bush, Saginaw, Mich., Sept. 29, 2000 |
Nyphur
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Posted - 2006.05.03 07:36:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Miss Anthropy
Why not have a seperate server just for Jita? We could have Tranquility and Jita!!! Just kidding. I know it's bad there sometimes but generally I just put up with it for the short time I'm there to buy/sell the stuff I need.
Last I heard, the core systems got their own node each O_O.
Eve-Tanking.com - For the ultimate tanking spreadsheet and resources. |
HadHaFangs
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Posted - 2006.05.03 07:51:00 -
[39]
Asherons call finally had a solution, they created a different area called the market place to move the load out of the portal dungeon (Arwic Mines anyone :D )
Eve could really use the same idea, a system that has a few stations, no services other than for selling gear and its easy to access.
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chillz
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Posted - 2006.05.03 07:53:00 -
[40]
Just ring Jita with low sec systems. 
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A gun and a packet of sandwiches.
"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - Hunter S Thompson
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Nyphur
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Posted - 2006.05.03 07:56:00 -
[41]
Originally by: chillz
Just ring Jita with low sec systems.
*ring ring* *ring ring* *click* "Hello?" "Hi, is this Jita?" "Yes, this is Jita." "LOW SEC SYSTEMS!" *click*
Yeah, let's prank call Jita :D.
Eve-Tanking.com - For the ultimate tanking spreadsheet and resources. |
Boonaki
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Posted - 2006.05.03 07:58:00 -
[42]
There's one way to solve this problem.
Micro Black Holes
Simply shoot one into the star in Jita, it goes nova after a little bit, problem solved.
Fear the Ibis of doom! |
Fintaki
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Posted - 2006.05.03 08:11:00 -
[43]
I was thinking about the original Superhighway system that was in place for quite some time. That was a really efficient method of travel over great distances and regions. Then that had to be shut down because of the server hotspots it was creating, very similar to the current super-hub that Jita is becoming. The problem I see here is that Jita is a single system.
IDEA: Put the Superhighways back in but have them terminate in a stationless system with say 8 or 10 gates to close (within region) systems. You still have a hub of sorts but you have several systems to choose from for sales etc. This would allow for a centralized place for people to gather for whatever they are doing currently in Jita, without placing a huge demand on any one system.
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Amthrianius
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Posted - 2006.05.03 08:16:00 -
[44]
errr, It wasnt meant to remove trade hubs it was meant to create regionalised markets, in which it has succeeded and there are now 4 booming trade hubs one in each race's region.
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Tharrn
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Posted - 2006.05.03 09:42:00 -
[45]
I wouldn't exactly call Amarr a booming tradehub :/ Wish we had one really - it's a pain in the neck to go to Jita everytime you need something.
Now recruiting!
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HippoKing
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Posted - 2006.05.03 09:43:00 -
[46]
i like having trade hubs. it gives me somewhere to go where i can buy EVERYTHING i need, rather thant trekking around 5jumps round the region or even having to look in another region for the stuff i need. If it could be make lag free, i wouldn't mind reverting to the old yulai (helluva if)
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Joshua Foiritain
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Posted - 2006.05.03 09:52:00 -
[47]
Theres a simple fix; Taxes should depend on the traffic a system gets per day, so busy systems have high taxes where out of the way systems have low taxes. This automaticly stomps any system that tries to become a hub and forces people to spread out or pay up.
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[Coreli Corporation Mainframe] |
odium alpha
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Posted - 2006.05.03 10:06:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Joshua Foiritain
Theres a simple fix; Taxes should depend on the traffic a system gets per day, so busy systems have high taxes where out of the way systems have low taxes. This automaticly stomps any system that tries to become a hub and forces people to spread out or pay up.
Bad idea, the only thing this will do is increase prices.
Do you really think ppl will haul all their stuff from one system to the other just to avoid taxes?
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James Lyrus
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Posted - 2006.05.03 10:13:00 -
[49]
I don't know, I'm aware of quite a few regional hubs.
For specialised stuff, Jita is still the place to go (e.g. starbase products, T2 components, that kind of thing), but for most things I have no trouble outfitting ships in quite a few spots, and almost always one in the same region.
Jita is definitely still the 'superhub' but there's quite a lot of scope for transport and reselling in other locations. Especially spots on the edges of 0.0 (Like Agil).
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We are recruiting
We sell Chimeras. |
Ab Tallen
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Posted - 2006.05.03 10:19:00 -
[50]
Originally by: odium alpha
Do you really think ppl will haul all their stuff from one system to the other just to avoid taxes?
Yet that is exactly what companies are doing in real life, so it's probably going to happen in EVE too.
Making it easier for haulers to find out what people want to buy elsewhere would be great, so that they have more incentive to move stuff. EVE-Central is already a good tool for that, but feeding it with data is still quite a tedious job, thanks to the crappy market interface. |
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Moghydin
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Posted - 2006.05.03 10:27:00 -
[51]
We don't see a global trade hub as Yulai was some time ago. Jita is the most important trade hub as it's rather close both to Amarr and Gallente space, it has lots of exits to different system and 1 jump away from another region (may be more, I haven't checked it). But Jita is not alone. We have Ourslaert (sp) in Gallente space and I'm sure, we have a big trade system in Amarr and Minm space. So, in the end, we do have empirial hubs and not one global hub, like Yulai was. Btw, I don't have too many lag issues in Jita, but taking Ice belts from there could be a good idea. Macroers could use another system (preferrably low-sec  )
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Vasiliyan
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Posted - 2006.05.03 10:36:00 -
[52]
Quote:
Do you really think ppl will haul all their stuff from one system to the other just to avoid taxes?
Well, people already train the skill that reduces taxes, so it's quite likely that this would happen. What seems likely is that people would stop one jump short of Jita and sell things there. Increasing taxes would also act as a useful ISK sink to keep inflation down. People would have more granularity of "do I travel further or do I pay more?"
Personally, one of the reasons why I've stayed in Empire for so long is that I like being in populated space, it feels more sociable. There's nothing wrong with Jita "in-game", just the immersion-breaking lag problems.
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qrac
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Posted - 2006.05.03 10:39:00 -
[53]
I don't find Jita to be laggy at all. If it gets too laggy then remove the ice and if that doesn't help remove the asteroid belts as well.
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Boycott Starforce! |
Talmssar
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Posted - 2006.05.03 10:52:00 -
[54]
Quote:
You could then also have smaller hubs further away, where you can also buy from the superhub, but delivery time might be 12 hours 10 jumps away, 24 hours 20 jumps away etc
Skill intruduced: Hub market selling - gives you ability to sell your stuff on other hub systems / other system out of region per lvl.
So competition and you dont need to travel to sell stuff on other hubs. Trade skill lvl 8 or higher as beeing extreamly useful to competite others withoutout travel
Skill intruduced: Hub market buying - gives you ability to buy stuff on other hub systems / other systems. 5% less transfer tax per lvl.
Trade skill again wich will be needed to get stuff to your current station from other regions / systems. Tax for long distance transfers is based on distance and lvl 5 of skill will give 5% tax. 0% tax can be achieved by standings?
Similar to those skills would decrease need of hubs BUT will lessen competition because some uber traders will have those skills both lvl 5. So maybe we should sustain some penalty even on lvl 5, just to give local builders/traders edge over general uber builders/traders.
I just prefer that all have good time here. |
Chrais Mrisith
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Posted - 2006.05.03 10:55:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Joshua Foiritain
Theres a simple fix; Taxes should depend on the traffic a system gets per day, so busy systems have high taxes where out of the way systems have low taxes. This automaticly stomps any system that tries to become a hub and forces people to spread out or pay up.
That or prices go up. People are lazy remember ;) |
Wattish
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Posted - 2006.05.03 11:07:00 -
[56]
Everyone complained about yulai till it was removed.
Everyone will complain about the new trade hubs till they are removed.
Then they will complain about having to go 10 jumps to fit a thorax.
CONCLUSION
People like complaining.
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Redwing Fellen
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Posted - 2006.05.03 11:26:00 -
[57]
Edited by: Redwing Fellen on 03/05/2006 11:29:01
If anyone is interested...Walter Christaller was German geographer who made a big contribution to Central Place theory Wiki entry What this (basically) says is that it is natural to get agglomerations of settlement - this is what is happening at Jita. Look around you in RL (and throughout history) and you will see the great market and trading cities - Venice, London, New York, Amsterdam,Hong Kong, Shanghai etc.
That EVE is displaying this tendency is predicted by Christaller's theory and is something to be admired as a demonstration of how sophisticated and flexible the game and market dynamics are. CCP - PLEASE Don't fight this - embrace it - I agree with what an earlier poster said; having a 'Great Bazaar" is great. Let's just have a technical solution that avoids lag !
[edited for the consequences of bad typing]
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Cesisse
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Posted - 2006.05.03 11:34:00 -
[58]
Wont the Kali expansion's factional warfare impact the super hub concept as well?
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Baldour Ngarr
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Posted - 2006.05.03 15:08:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Cesisse
Wont the Kali expansion's factional warfare impact the super hub concept as well?
Hopefully. It should at least make Amarr/Ours/Jita/Rens more equally divided.
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"I tried strip mining, but I lost, and it's cold flying around in space naked." |
Baldour Ngarr
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Posted - 2006.05.03 15:11:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Wattish
Everyone complained about yulai till it was removed.
Everyone will complain about the new trade hubs till they are removed.
Then they will complain about having to go 10 jumps to fit a thorax.
CONCLUSION
People like complaining.
There's a law for this, and it also explains why all political parties get voted out of office in the end. Sadly, I don't recall whose Law this is.
"Any given change will please some people and displease others; but the amount by which the pleased people are pleased, will always be less than the amount by which the displeased people are displeased."
Which leads among other things, to this oddity; if you changed something, then changed it back to exactly how it was before, people won't like the "new" setup as much as they did before you changed things.
It's also a proof of something which can be demonstrated mathematically, if only I had the time and inclination; any sufficiently large group of people (EVE's population is way over the required size) will act illogically. *even if all the individual members of it are perfectly logical*, the group as a whole will come to illogical conclusions. This must perforce happen, and it's rather depressing.
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"I tried strip mining, but I lost, and it's cold flying around in space naked." |
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