| Pages: 1 2 3 :: [one page] |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Muthsera
   |
Posted - 2006.05.02 23:25:00 -
[1]
I was in Jita today. It's been two weeks since last time.
And as always, I bloody hate the place. But thats rather beside the point. Since it's not my feelings for the place that is the point of this tread. But rather if Jita is becomming a new Yulai.
Everytime I got something to sell I always head towards Jita and everytime I got something to buy I head there, strangely enough, to. Like I did Yulai earlier. I know Amarr and Oursulert and Rens is around. But I can't be bothered to go there. Even when I'm in the deep south. I go to Jita to sell stuff. Don't bother stopping in Amarr. Why? Good question. As I bloody hate the place, jita that is. So why whould bother going there?
The awnser is availabillity. It's simply easier to get the results you want there. It's easier to sell all the gear you have. And it offset some of the extra time it takes to go from Amarr to Jita. I simply get better result in Jita over Amarr. When I'm in the north it's no contest. Jita is the hub. Either your in Venal, Vale, Pure Blind, Germinate, Tribute, etc, doesn't matter. All the northern regions hub to Jita. Probobly 1/3 of eve regions hub to Jita naturally.
Also my main is in a heavily agressive corp that often have wars. And my bookmarks tend to dictate where I can go. So it tend to leave out Rens and Oursulert.
Now I really expect ppl to come forward and say: "Your so wrong, there is plenty of really good markets around, you just need to go outside of the Jita hub". Well I do realise that. But again, why bother going to a place and spend so much more time finding the right one when you can go to one place, spend 1/10th of the time doing it and still get the same price that you whould often get somewhere else.
And it's quite clear that many think just like me on this. Seeing that it's nearly 500 ppl in there at any given time.
Now. I see some of the goal to desentralice Yulai, was to take some of the pressure off the node. And to utilise other markets. Now, I think we need to ask ourselves if this really have been achived? I don't think it have been to be honnest. Even though I recognice that it probobly whould have been a lot worse if Yulai have remained as it was.
Moving the Agents from Jita also helped a bit whit the pressure on it. But not as much as one hoped I think.
So whats the solution to this. Should we just let Jita bevelop into the Superhub that Yulai was? Becus I think it's really heading there. Or can something be prevented to make it more attractive to use hubs like rens and amarr.
1. Personally I don't think a Eve-wide superhup is possible to stop. On the pure principle of availabillity. And we need to keep that in mind. Should that be Jita? Well. Not nessiserily.
2. Can desentralised hubs work? Or are they working now as intended? Should we change things to make it more attractive to use?
3. Is the current system working well enough not to mess whit it?
4. Could we do intensives. ie. Giving bonuses to develop sertain items in one hub. As an example. Ships in amarr whould be cheaper than other places. And minerals in another, Modules in a third.
Just and idea, and not nessiserily a good one. But I think it's idea like this, that is needed to keep superhubs from developing.
Any thoughts on this?
My thoughts
|
Raven Aure
|
Posted - 2006.05.02 23:35:00 -
[2]
History has proven for thousands of years that trade hubs will develop. It's in pretty much everyone's interests for it to happen.
I'm not a believer in working against a system to try and solve a problem with it. You will ultimately fail. Jita will continue to be a trade hub unless the traders have a good reason to go elsewhere. Which means doing one of two things:
1) Make Jita able to take a larger number of players.
2) Provide a more attractive trade hub that will both encourage people to move and be able to cope with all those people when they do move.
I vote for 1).
______________________
 Originally by: Jim McGregor
Most people are in write-mode only in these forums
104 days and still a hijack virgin... |
LoKesh
|
Posted - 2006.05.02 23:38:00 -
[3]
Edited by: LoKesh on 02/05/2006 23:39:59
Well, part of the decentralization was changing the geography. Jita may be bigger than many hubs, but it's harder to get to than Yulai used to be (especially if you're travelling east-west).
Some people, like me, will travel less distance to a smaller hub and just pay more for what we want. This opens up a niche for people, possibly like you, who take advantage of this and ferry things between hubs. I think in that respect the multiple hubs are working fine.
Currently the only things that encourage a particular hub to have a better selection of anything are 1) builders supplying to new players, based on the race of the area 2) people looking to quickly trade faction loot It would be nice to see a unique flavor to each hub. Maybe that will come in time as new tech2 producers appear? (this happens a little bit, last I check the forge was THE place to buy manticores)
Added 2 seconds later - Making it even harder to travel between the hubs might make them more unique. Travel through empire costs nothing but time (especially with instas)
|
John Bishop
|
Posted - 2006.05.02 23:42:00 -
[4]
speaking from a role play point of veiw jita should become the super hub of the galaxy. the caldari are buisnessmen and a capitolistic society. it only makes since that the galaxy super hub would be in caldari space. of course this may mean that the jita node should be alot more powerfull than other nodes to handle the traffic but i think it should stay the way it is ingame anyways
_______________________________________________
sorry for the spelling and gramtic errors,,, im a redneck cowboy what did you expect anyways????
|
Danton Marcellus
|
Posted - 2006.05.02 23:49:00 -
[5]
Take out the Jita icebelts for one. Second give the traders of their own race a beneficial tax on home soil.
Remind me about The Maze.
I'm Danton Marcellus and I approve of this message. |
Eternal Fury
|
Posted - 2006.05.02 23:53:00 -
[6]
Why not ask the devs to find the 4 LEAST used systems in the game. one for each of the Races, and then post them asking people to buy/sell there. Make it so no more items can be put into sell at Jita, or any of the other newb area's.
make the central sales hubs be empty systems, with lots of exits to many other regions..
Hell, I'd like to see in each Region, a system/station that is LABELED as a trade station, asking people to buy/sell in that region.
I moved out of caldari space becuse of the crowding. I'm now in an area that is almost impossible to buy things from. I have to go 3-4 regions away to buy things, and this is in EMPIRE. I can't sell anymore as I have my max number of sell orders up. And nothing is moveing.
the items that normally sell imediately in jita, I can leave up for months.
So what do I do now, I stockpile it, and one day, take a ship with a large hold, and transport it all to Jita so I can sell it.
How about makeing it impossible to copy BM's in Trade hubs?
That alone should cut down on the processing power in those systems.
Before posting that you can't connect, look
HERE and see if the server is up. |
Hllaxiu
|
Posted - 2006.05.02 23:54:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Raven Aure
History has proven for thousands of years that trade hubs will develop. It's in pretty much everyone's interests for it to happen.
Trade hub = good
Trade+Mission+ice mining hub = bad
---
Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson |
Bentguru
|
Posted - 2006.05.02 23:59:00 -
[8]
I actually find stuff is cheaper by a few mil in ours than in jita.
I don't have a sig :(
but i do have a video
Welcome Home |
Sensor Error
|
Posted - 2006.05.03 00:00:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Hllaxiu
Originally by: Raven Aure
History has proven for thousands of years that trade hubs will develop. It's in pretty much everyone's interests for it to happen.
Trade hub = good
Trade+Mission+ice mining hub = bad
exactly. I'm also getting ****ed of that I have to keep flying 9 jumps to do a "Kill 5k of rats for 10k" important mission. I know I don't have to do them, but I want implants God damn it! And you can't remote-say no to a mission can you? So if I'm flying over there to say no, I might as well kit up and fly over there to say yes.
Le sigh.
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE!!!
------------------------------------------
Dev ARQ |
Raven Aure
|
Posted - 2006.05.03 00:02:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Hllaxiu
Originally by: Raven Aure
History has proven for thousands of years that trade hubs will develop. It's in pretty much everyone's interests for it to happen.
Trade hub = good
Trade+Mission+ice mining hub = bad
QFT. Althought, it's only a limited measure (and indeed one that's been used before - agents relocating).
Giant trade hubs will not go away and indeed it's one of the things that causes a free(ish) market to flourish. I can't see any other choice but embracing this and working to support it.
______________________
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Most people are in write-mode only in these forums
104 days and still a hijack virgin... |
Mistress Suffering
|
Posted - 2006.05.03 00:04:00 -
[11]
Absolutely remove ice from Jita. Push that to another system.
|
Hesed
|
Posted - 2006.05.03 00:07:00 -
[12]
My selves have consulted and agree on several points:
1)Aura needs intervention for painkillers abuse.
2)Concord is oppressin us.
3)Clouds probably don't look the same color from above as below.
4)Making local variance in markets is probably a swell idea, but it would be served just as well making markets constellation wide as soon as station wide. Like with free delivery service or price matching between local station owners. Or better, make the products available at an npc station be avaialble at any station owned by that corp. The bigger the corp, the larger the percentage of station fees.
5)By abstention of others, one lone self carries the motion that strontium isotopes are fun to play with.
|
Suze'Rain
|
Posted - 2006.05.03 00:09:00 -
[13]
3 solutions to the jita hub problem.
1: Bypass gates and "ring road" network around jita allowing people travelling the option of not having to go through the hub.
2: Ice belts are finally depleted in the jita region by intensive strip mining, leaving nothing but the mangled remains of a dozen business ventures.
3: ensure that agent missions do not spawn sending players *to* jita
do that and it will become a pure harked hub, with no need to go there elsewhere, and it should at least cut out some of the players who would otherwise lurk.
it's got to be a start.
|
Raven Aure
|
Posted - 2006.05.03 00:11:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Raven Aure on 03/05/2006 00:12:53
Originally by: Suze'Rain
1: Bypass gates and "ring road" network around jita allowing people travelling the option of not having to go through the hub.
The others have been stated above, but that is a good point.
Edit: Silly me. Just remembered that they've already done this one in the past as well - rejigging jumps though not to the extent that you mention. As I've said, it's only a temporary solution to the problem.
______________________
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Most people are in write-mode only in these forums
104 days and still a hijack virgin... |
Rabbitgod
|
Posted - 2006.05.03 00:31:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Rabbitgod on 03/05/2006 00:34:40
I think de hubbing hubs is easy you just need to create a reason to use one system for one action and another system for some other action.
One idea would be to create a system where their is new level to the market. Lets say all the 1.0 system have a joint market window and if you can only buy/sell stuff on this market by being in that system. Also let toss in the idea that iterbus will delviver from any 1.0 system to any other 1.0 system fast and cheap.
This does two thing creats a reason to be in 1.0 system and makes all 1.0 system the same as far as what you can find in them.
Now lets say the empires get a wild hair up there ass and removed all the factory and lab slots from 1.0 reason because they need them or some other crap. At the same time make agents accessable for misions from with in the same region or the better the standing you have the futher away you can acept and complet missions from.
Now you can/must spread your corp out a little with out giving up too much
Here
Kills last month: 310
Damage done est: $5 350 000 000 (w/o mods) |
Maya Rkell
|
Posted - 2006.05.03 00:35:00 -
[16]
oh of course it's failed. Sigh. When places like Amarr don't have the market they did some time ago...
"The Human eye is a marvelous device, with a very little effort it can overlook all but the most glaring injustice" - Quellchrist Falconer |
Dakath
|
Posted - 2006.05.03 00:40:00 -
[17]
It has failed.
The highways to Yulai should be restored.
Of course, this will never happen because it would be equivalent to CCP admitting they made a mistake. 
Nerfing those highways did NOTHING to reduce lag.
|
Baldour Ngarr
|
Posted - 2006.05.03 00:51:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Dakath
It has failed.
Partly, yes.
Quote:
The highways to Yulai should be restored.
GOOD GOD no.
Average number of pilots in the last half hour:
544 in Jita
432 in Oursulaert
292 in Rens
96 in Amarr
...now put the superhighways back in. Give or take a few mission runners, that means over a thousand people in Yulai. 
Jita may be the primary hub, but back in the day, Yulai was the ONLY hub. Things now are better than they would be otherwise - or, I should say, they are less bad.
________________________________________________
"I tried strip mining, but I lost, and it's cold flying around in space naked." |
Muthsera
|
Posted - 2006.05.03 01:58:00 -
[19]
Problem isn't to remove the ice field or the agents.
The problem is the sentraliced hub.
Is it even bad?
Persoanlly I don't think so.
However. I don't think it should be jita.
I'd like to see Yulai restored. But I much rather have 4 big hubs work proporly. Whit a more direct route between them. Thats going to clash whit the cold war bit. But so be it.
I'd like to see some of the super highways restored. Not all and not like it was.
I'd like more routes of equal lenght so you have more choices to go from north - south, east - west to prevent chokepoints.
My thoughts
|
Miss Overlord
|
Posted - 2006.05.03 02:06:00 -
[20]
we have several options here - retain gates (CCP has now finally moved agents out of jita) it took long enough but it hss happened - another idea ice belts in 1.0 systems have a limited factor of ice (ie being overmined they now are unlimited) so like asteroids they only respawn so many cycles each day (these would movethe ISK farmer ice miners out) away from jita removing about 15% of all traffic (macro miners is what im saying) but prefer ISK farmers
Those missions orginating in jita need to boos the amount of jumps to combat mission objectiles (the more the agents get used the more jumps they send u for mission objectives) in the case of jita 10 jumps for a courier and 5 jumps for combat missions (peeps would soon move) after getting time jacked to compelte missions.
Those docked afk at station for more than 30 minutes can suffer a ctd.
|
Phelan Lore
|
Posted - 2006.05.03 02:10:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Hllaxiu
Originally by: Raven Aure
History has proven for thousands of years that trade hubs will develop. It's in pretty much everyone's interests for it to happen.
Trade hub = good
Trade+Mission+ice mining hub = bad
Probably doesn't help that kisigo is 1 jump away. SWA usually has close to 1k of people online.
________________
~Phelan Lore
Your isk has become my isk, by way of my actions... |
Sarah Aubry
|
Posted - 2006.05.03 04:31:00 -
[22]
could just put a stargate in every system that goes straight to jita ;) that would solve everything :p |
spiderbaby
|
Posted - 2006.05.03 05:37:00 -
[23]
Why not create an actual superhub?
If it's going to happen anyway adapt to accomodate it. Make one station in Jita (and Jita only) tradeable at a range of 3 jumps. Properly tradeable, i.e. as if you were actually in that station. You buy something from the Jita Superhub Station when you're 3 jumps away and it appears in the hangar where you are. Rationalise it with some pseudo-techno fantasy mumbo jumbo.
Hub still exists, trade centre still works, pressure on Jita distributed across a 3+ jump region of space.
|
Danton Marcellus
|
Posted - 2006.05.03 05:41:00 -
[24]
Originally by: spiderbaby
Why not create an actual superhub?
If it's going to happen anyway adapt to accomodate it. Make one station in Jita (and Jita only) tradeable at a range of 3 jumps. Properly tradeable, i.e. as if you were actually in that station. You buy something from the Jita Superhub Station when you're 3 jumps away and it appears in the hangar where you are. Rationalise it with some pseudo-techno fantasy mumbo jumbo.
Hub still exists, trade centre still works, pressure on Jita distributed across a 3+ jump region of space.
People don't want the one superhub, did you not get that from the post? People want diversity and movement, not some stagnant mall.
Remind me about The Maze.
I'm Danton Marcellus and I approve of this message. |
Tachy
|
Posted - 2006.05.03 05:50:00 -
[25]
They don't want the hub, but they still go there for buying and selling.
Complete cake + eat slices
--*=*=*--
Megadon
CCP wanted a well known artist and celebrity to test the new font so it's approval would be well known. They got Ray |
Malakhan
|
Posted - 2006.05.03 05:52:00 -
[26]
to continue on the previous idea, make an inaccessible superhub, with linked market in 4-5 neighbouring systems, you buy or sell something from the hub, it is delivered by one of 4 daily convoys to your system (to rationalise it)
so, 00:00, 06:00, 12:00 and 18:00 buy orders are delivered, and sell orders are brought to the hub.
This would 1. Reduce lag, as you spread the people out in 4-5 systems, and it would improve the smaller regional markets, as people would shop there if they need stuff immediately.
You could then also have smaller hubs further away, where you can also buy from the superhub, but delivery time might be 12 hours 10 jumps away, 24 hours 20 jumps away etc
---
|
Harry Voyager
|
Posted - 2006.05.03 06:23:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Danton Marcellus
Originally by: spiderbaby
Why not create an actual superhub?
[...]
People don't want the one superhub, did you not get that from the post? People want diversity and movement, not some stagnant mall.
And yet there is nothing more stagnant and boring than a mall that sells only one item, or only a limited selection isn't there?
Seriously, I fail to see what is so boring about the great bazaar. Everything is for sale there, for a price. The market is full of goods, price wars are raging, people are dueling outside the stations, and stations are laden with escrows, both real and scams, massive frieghters coming and going hauling their wares. Jita breathes with a life and vitality that no other system that I've seen in this game does.
I remember when Yulai was killed. Burning the oasis doesn't make the desert bloom; it just leaves people scrabbling. Destroying Yulai didn't improve the game; it just reduced the jewel of empire to a scattering of mud huts smattered across the game.
Fix the lag, because Jita *is* the future of Eve, in one form or another.
Harry Voyager
|
Hotice
|
Posted - 2006.05.03 06:24:00 -
[28]
Trade hub will never goes away. It is human nature to gether and trade. Wonder who thought remove the highway systems would solve the problem. hehe That guy got a strange theory that is going against human history.
Honestly, ccp should just let people to be able to buy and sell items upto 10 jumps from their location. Items bought from market with in 10 jumps will appear in their local station. Charge some isk based distance for money sink purpose. As long as it is not too much, people will not mind.
|
spiderbaby
|
Posted - 2006.05.03 06:53:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Danton Marcellus
People don't want the one superhub, did you not get that from the post? People want diversity and movement, not some stagnant mall.
One post represents what every EVE player wants does it? OK...
Meanwhile back in the real world, every time CCP try and de-centralise things to remove a hub that's formed.... another one forms. Personally I tend to gague the wants/needs of a group by what they actually do, not by what one single person says they want.
|
spurious signal
|
Posted - 2006.05.03 06:55:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Harry Voyager
Seriously, I fail to see what is so boring about the great bazaar. Everything is for sale there, for a price. The market is full of goods, price wars are raging, people are dueling outside the stations, and stations are laden with escrows, both real and scams, massive frieghters coming and going hauling their wares. Jita breathes with a life and vitality that no other system that I've seen in this game does.
QFT.
Jita is laggy, yes, but it's great to visit after spending weeks in the outer regions of space that are 95% empty and suddenly EVE feels populated and bustling and alive.
|
Baldour Ngarr
|
Posted - 2006.05.03 06:56:00 -
[31]
Originally by: spiderbaby
Originally by: Danton Marcellus
People don't want the one superhub, did you not get that from the post? People want diversity and movement, not some stagnant mall.
One post represents what every EVE player wants does it? OK...
Meanwhile back in the real world, every time CCP try and de-centralise things to remove a hub that's formed.... another one forms. Personally I tend to gague the wants/needs of a group by what they actually do, not by what one single person says they want.
Actually, you probably will find that a huge number of EVE players will tell you they don't want a superhub; the very same players who formed the damn superhub by all wanting to trade in the same place.
Who said the human race is intelligent?
________________________________________________
"I tried strip mining, but I lost, and it's cold flying around in space naked." |
Raven Aure
|
Posted - 2006.05.03 06:59:00 -
[32]
Originally by: spiderbaby
Originally by: Danton Marcellus
People don't want the one superhub, did you not get that from the post? People want diversity and movement, not some stagnant mall.
One post represents what every EVE player wants does it? OK...
Meanwhile back in the real world, every time CCP try and de-centralise things to remove a hub that's formed.... another one forms. Personally I tend to gague the wants/needs of a group by what they actually do, not by what one single person says they want.
And to think I made that point in the first reply to this thread. Trade hubs will form through sheer market dynamics. You will get a "Jita" regardless of what you do to Jita. You can either embrace this or fight against it.
______________________
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Most people are in write-mode only in these forums
105 days and still a hijack virgin... |
Nyphur
|
Posted - 2006.05.03 07:09:00 -
[33]
People trade where the most players are. It's a simple idea - the more players that live in the system, the more potential buyers that are too lazy to move to another system to buy stuff. So the trade hubs will form around the places in high sec where the use of products is. That means systems with a lot of agents etc.
So I think we're getting the card before the horse on this one. It's not that the laggy systems are laggy because there are agents at a trade hub, it's that the trade hub formed in areas with agents. Moving the agents will shift the trade hubs.
Eve-Tanking.com - For the ultimate tanking spreadsheet and resources. |
Calleb
|
Posted - 2006.05.03 07:24:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Calleb on 03/05/2006 07:24:19
I buy and sell alot of stuff, and have only visited Jita a few times (to get some rare stuff). I realy dont see the point. Any bargain you want can either be got from your local markets or over the trade channels. By the time you have spent 30 mins going to jita to buy or sell, thats 30 mins worth of travel time you need to convert into your profit margins and add to your totals.
I for one am more than happy with the way things are now, as there is much more local trade than ever before, so more people must feel the same way as I do.
|
Lunarmyth
|
Posted - 2006.05.03 07:25:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Nyphur
People trade where the most players are. It's a simple idea - the more players that live in the system, the more potential buyers that are too lazy to move to another system to buy stuff. So the trade hubs will form around the places in high sec where the use of products is. That means systems with a lot of agents etc.
So I think we're getting the card before the horse on this one. It's not that the laggy systems are laggy because there are agents at a trade hub, it's that the trade hub formed in areas with agents. Moving the agents will shift the trade hubs.
CCP moved all the lvl 3 and lvl 4 agents from systems near Jita before the highway system change. Jita as a super trade hub was result in player selection after Yulai. Agent runners have nothing to day with the formation of this trade hub. This time it is the production corps/allaince who picked the system.
|
Nyphur
|
Posted - 2006.05.03 07:30:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Lunarmyth
CCP moved all the lvl 3 and lvl 4 agents from systems near Jita before the highway system change. Jita as a super trade hub was result in player selection after Yulai. Agent runners have nothing to day with the formation of this trade hub. This time it is the production corps/allaince who picked the system.
People buy there because of its proximity to their home systems. Their home systems are picked because they contain factories in high sec or ice belts or good agents, whatever it is. Maybe Jita doesn't have many good agents but its neighbours sure do and it accounts for a good deal of traffic.
Eve-Tanking.com - For the ultimate tanking spreadsheet and resources. |
Miss Anthropy
|
Posted - 2006.05.03 07:34:00 -
[37]
Why not have a seperate server just for Jita? We could have Tranquility and Jita!!! Just kidding. I know it's bad there sometimes but generally I just put up with it for the short time I'm there to buy/sell the stuff I need.
-----------------------------------------------
"I know the human being and fish can coexist peacefully." ùGeorge W. Bush, Saginaw, Mich., Sept. 29, 2000 |
Nyphur
|
Posted - 2006.05.03 07:36:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Miss Anthropy
Why not have a seperate server just for Jita? We could have Tranquility and Jita!!! Just kidding. I know it's bad there sometimes but generally I just put up with it for the short time I'm there to buy/sell the stuff I need.
Last I heard, the core systems got their own node each O_O.
Eve-Tanking.com - For the ultimate tanking spreadsheet and resources. |
HadHaFangs
|
Posted - 2006.05.03 07:51:00 -
[39]
Asherons call finally had a solution, they created a different area called the market place to move the load out of the portal dungeon (Arwic Mines anyone :D )
Eve could really use the same idea, a system that has a few stations, no services other than for selling gear and its easy to access.
|
chillz
|
Posted - 2006.05.03 07:53:00 -
[40]
Just ring Jita with low sec systems. 
-----------------------------------
A gun and a packet of sandwiches.
"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - Hunter S Thompson
|
Nyphur
|
Posted - 2006.05.03 07:56:00 -
[41]
Originally by: chillz
Just ring Jita with low sec systems.
*ring ring* *ring ring* *click* "Hello?" "Hi, is this Jita?" "Yes, this is Jita." "LOW SEC SYSTEMS!" *click*
Yeah, let's prank call Jita :D.
Eve-Tanking.com - For the ultimate tanking spreadsheet and resources. |
Boonaki
|
Posted - 2006.05.03 07:58:00 -
[42]
There's one way to solve this problem.
Micro Black Holes
Simply shoot one into the star in Jita, it goes nova after a little bit, problem solved.
Fear the Ibis of doom! |
Fintaki
|
Posted - 2006.05.03 08:11:00 -
[43]
I was thinking about the original Superhighway system that was in place for quite some time. That was a really efficient method of travel over great distances and regions. Then that had to be shut down because of the server hotspots it was creating, very similar to the current super-hub that Jita is becoming. The problem I see here is that Jita is a single system.
IDEA: Put the Superhighways back in but have them terminate in a stationless system with say 8 or 10 gates to close (within region) systems. You still have a hub of sorts but you have several systems to choose from for sales etc. This would allow for a centralized place for people to gather for whatever they are doing currently in Jita, without placing a huge demand on any one system.
|
Amthrianius
|
Posted - 2006.05.03 08:16:00 -
[44]
errr, It wasnt meant to remove trade hubs it was meant to create regionalised markets, in which it has succeeded and there are now 4 booming trade hubs one in each race's region.
---------------
|
Tharrn
|
Posted - 2006.05.03 09:42:00 -
[45]
I wouldn't exactly call Amarr a booming tradehub :/ Wish we had one really - it's a pain in the neck to go to Jita everytime you need something.
Now recruiting!
|
HippoKing
|
Posted - 2006.05.03 09:43:00 -
[46]
i like having trade hubs. it gives me somewhere to go where i can buy EVERYTHING i need, rather thant trekking around 5jumps round the region or even having to look in another region for the stuff i need. If it could be make lag free, i wouldn't mind reverting to the old yulai (helluva if)
|
Joshua Foiritain
|
Posted - 2006.05.03 09:52:00 -
[47]
Theres a simple fix; Taxes should depend on the traffic a system gets per day, so busy systems have high taxes where out of the way systems have low taxes. This automaticly stomps any system that tries to become a hub and forces people to spread out or pay up.
-------
[Coreli Corporation Mainframe] |
odium alpha
|
Posted - 2006.05.03 10:06:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Joshua Foiritain
Theres a simple fix; Taxes should depend on the traffic a system gets per day, so busy systems have high taxes where out of the way systems have low taxes. This automaticly stomps any system that tries to become a hub and forces people to spread out or pay up.
Bad idea, the only thing this will do is increase prices.
Do you really think ppl will haul all their stuff from one system to the other just to avoid taxes?
|
James Lyrus
|
Posted - 2006.05.03 10:13:00 -
[49]
I don't know, I'm aware of quite a few regional hubs.
For specialised stuff, Jita is still the place to go (e.g. starbase products, T2 components, that kind of thing), but for most things I have no trouble outfitting ships in quite a few spots, and almost always one in the same region.
Jita is definitely still the 'superhub' but there's quite a lot of scope for transport and reselling in other locations. Especially spots on the edges of 0.0 (Like Agil).
--
We are recruiting
We sell Chimeras. |
Ab Tallen
|
Posted - 2006.05.03 10:19:00 -
[50]
Originally by: odium alpha
Do you really think ppl will haul all their stuff from one system to the other just to avoid taxes?
Yet that is exactly what companies are doing in real life, so it's probably going to happen in EVE too.
Making it easier for haulers to find out what people want to buy elsewhere would be great, so that they have more incentive to move stuff. EVE-Central is already a good tool for that, but feeding it with data is still quite a tedious job, thanks to the crappy market interface. |
Moghydin
|
Posted - 2006.05.03 10:27:00 -
[51]
We don't see a global trade hub as Yulai was some time ago. Jita is the most important trade hub as it's rather close both to Amarr and Gallente space, it has lots of exits to different system and 1 jump away from another region (may be more, I haven't checked it). But Jita is not alone. We have Ourslaert (sp) in Gallente space and I'm sure, we have a big trade system in Amarr and Minm space. So, in the end, we do have empirial hubs and not one global hub, like Yulai was. Btw, I don't have too many lag issues in Jita, but taking Ice belts from there could be a good idea. Macroers could use another system (preferrably low-sec  )
|
Vasiliyan
|
Posted - 2006.05.03 10:36:00 -
[52]
Quote:
Do you really think ppl will haul all their stuff from one system to the other just to avoid taxes?
Well, people already train the skill that reduces taxes, so it's quite likely that this would happen. What seems likely is that people would stop one jump short of Jita and sell things there. Increasing taxes would also act as a useful ISK sink to keep inflation down. People would have more granularity of "do I travel further or do I pay more?"
Personally, one of the reasons why I've stayed in Empire for so long is that I like being in populated space, it feels more sociable. There's nothing wrong with Jita "in-game", just the immersion-breaking lag problems.
|
qrac
|
Posted - 2006.05.03 10:39:00 -
[53]
I don't find Jita to be laggy at all. If it gets too laggy then remove the ice and if that doesn't help remove the asteroid belts as well.
-------------------------------------------
Boycott Starforce! |
Talmssar
|
Posted - 2006.05.03 10:52:00 -
[54]
Quote:
You could then also have smaller hubs further away, where you can also buy from the superhub, but delivery time might be 12 hours 10 jumps away, 24 hours 20 jumps away etc
Skill intruduced: Hub market selling - gives you ability to sell your stuff on other hub systems / other system out of region per lvl.
So competition and you dont need to travel to sell stuff on other hubs. Trade skill lvl 8 or higher as beeing extreamly useful to competite others withoutout travel
Skill intruduced: Hub market buying - gives you ability to buy stuff on other hub systems / other systems. 5% less transfer tax per lvl.
Trade skill again wich will be needed to get stuff to your current station from other regions / systems. Tax for long distance transfers is based on distance and lvl 5 of skill will give 5% tax. 0% tax can be achieved by standings?
Similar to those skills would decrease need of hubs BUT will lessen competition because some uber traders will have those skills both lvl 5. So maybe we should sustain some penalty even on lvl 5, just to give local builders/traders edge over general uber builders/traders.
I just prefer that all have good time here. |
Chrais Mrisith
|
Posted - 2006.05.03 10:55:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Joshua Foiritain
Theres a simple fix; Taxes should depend on the traffic a system gets per day, so busy systems have high taxes where out of the way systems have low taxes. This automaticly stomps any system that tries to become a hub and forces people to spread out or pay up.
That or prices go up. People are lazy remember ;) |
Wattish
|
Posted - 2006.05.03 11:07:00 -
[56]
Everyone complained about yulai till it was removed.
Everyone will complain about the new trade hubs till they are removed.
Then they will complain about having to go 10 jumps to fit a thorax.
CONCLUSION
People like complaining.
|
Redwing Fellen
|
Posted - 2006.05.03 11:26:00 -
[57]
Edited by: Redwing Fellen on 03/05/2006 11:29:01
If anyone is interested...Walter Christaller was German geographer who made a big contribution to Central Place theory Wiki entry What this (basically) says is that it is natural to get agglomerations of settlement - this is what is happening at Jita. Look around you in RL (and throughout history) and you will see the great market and trading cities - Venice, London, New York, Amsterdam,Hong Kong, Shanghai etc.
That EVE is displaying this tendency is predicted by Christaller's theory and is something to be admired as a demonstration of how sophisticated and flexible the game and market dynamics are. CCP - PLEASE Don't fight this - embrace it - I agree with what an earlier poster said; having a 'Great Bazaar" is great. Let's just have a technical solution that avoids lag !
[edited for the consequences of bad typing]
|
Cesisse
|
Posted - 2006.05.03 11:34:00 -
[58]
Wont the Kali expansion's factional warfare impact the super hub concept as well?
|
Baldour Ngarr
|
Posted - 2006.05.03 15:08:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Cesisse
Wont the Kali expansion's factional warfare impact the super hub concept as well?
Hopefully. It should at least make Amarr/Ours/Jita/Rens more equally divided.
________________________________________________
"I tried strip mining, but I lost, and it's cold flying around in space naked." |
Baldour Ngarr
|
Posted - 2006.05.03 15:11:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Wattish
Everyone complained about yulai till it was removed.
Everyone will complain about the new trade hubs till they are removed.
Then they will complain about having to go 10 jumps to fit a thorax.
CONCLUSION
People like complaining.
There's a law for this, and it also explains why all political parties get voted out of office in the end. Sadly, I don't recall whose Law this is.
"Any given change will please some people and displease others; but the amount by which the pleased people are pleased, will always be less than the amount by which the displeased people are displeased."
Which leads among other things, to this oddity; if you changed something, then changed it back to exactly how it was before, people won't like the "new" setup as much as they did before you changed things.
It's also a proof of something which can be demonstrated mathematically, if only I had the time and inclination; any sufficiently large group of people (EVE's population is way over the required size) will act illogically. *even if all the individual members of it are perfectly logical*, the group as a whole will come to illogical conclusions. This must perforce happen, and it's rather depressing.
________________________________________________
"I tried strip mining, but I lost, and it's cold flying around in space naked." |
Ja'kar
|
Posted - 2006.05.03 16:11:00 -
[61]
Fools make Jita 0.4 û will clear out faster than empting a bath!
Ok apologies in advance for above post
|
Baldour Ngarr
|
Posted - 2006.05.03 16:27:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Ja'kar
Fools make Jita 0.4 û will clear out faster than empting a bath!
Complaints about the new super-hub in Oipo will follow shortly.
...or Kisogo, or Amarr, or ... the point is, it's not JITA that's the problem. It's having a super-hub that's the problem, and there WILL be one.
________________________________________________
"I tried strip mining, but I lost, and it's cold flying around in space naked." |
PriceCheckMax
|
Posted - 2006.05.03 16:34:00 -
[63]
Edited by: PriceCheckMax on 03/05/2006 16:35:36
JITA IS THE BEST SYSTEM IN EVE
PLEASE DON'T CHANGE IT.
We need shorter routes from South/East to reach Jita even faster! This way we could get a super hub! 1000 players in local! Jita would get even better.
|
Baldour Ngarr
|
Posted - 2006.05.03 16:54:00 -
[64]
Originally by: PriceCheckMax
Edited by: PriceCheckMax on 03/05/2006 16:35:36
JITA IS THE BEST SYSTEM IN EVE
PLEASE DON'T CHANGE IT.
We need shorter routes from South/East to reach Jita even faster! This way we could get a super hub! 1000 players in local! Jita would get even better.
this is obviously some new definition of the word "better" which I haven't previously come across.
________________________________________________
"I tried strip mining, but I lost, and it's cold flying around in space naked." |
SengH
|
Posted - 2006.05.03 16:57:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Baldour Ngarr
Originally by: PriceCheckMax
Edited by: PriceCheckMax on 03/05/2006 16:35:36
JITA IS THE BEST SYSTEM IN EVE
PLEASE DON'T CHANGE IT.
We need shorter routes from South/East to reach Jita even faster! This way we could get a super hub! 1000 players in local! Jita would get even better.
this is obviously some new definition of the word "better" which I haven't previously come across.
it would be better for those traders who sit in 4-4 and never undock.
|
Danton Marcellus
|
Posted - 2006.05.03 17:06:00 -
[66]
It would be better for those alts, smacktastic or otherwise that sit there and sell their goods without a care in the world about what's good for the game in general.
Remind me about The Maze.
I'm Danton Marcellus and I approve of this message. |
Setarcos Nous
|
Posted - 2006.05.03 17:38:00 -
[67]
 How about making sales taxes based on the security rating of the system?
taxrate = 5 + Security rating of system *10
1.0= 15%
0.5= 10%
0.0= 5% (someone has to subsidize the station)
I'm sure the formula couldbe tweaked, but you get the idea.
|
akuma white
|
Posted - 2006.05.03 17:38:00 -
[68]
Jita reminds me of the canteen in starwars.A dangerous place were anything can be bought or sold some good people and some bad people.It just feels like it is alive with so many things going on.
|
qrac
|
Posted - 2006.05.03 17:53:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Setarcos Nous
How about making sales taxes based on the security rating of the system?
taxrate = 5 + Security rating of system *10
1.0= 15%
0.5= 10%
0.0= 5% (someone has to subsidize the station)
I'm sure the formula couldbe tweaked, but you get the idea.
Then the new hub would be a 0.5 system..
-------------------------------------------
Boycott Starforce! |
Tsual
|
Posted - 2006.05.03 18:12:00 -
[70]
Edited by: Tsual on 03/05/2006 18:12:50
Originally by: qrac
Originally by: Setarcos Nous
How about making sales taxes based on the security rating of the system?
taxrate = 5 + Security rating of system *10
1.0= 15%
0.5= 10%
0.0= 5% (someone has to subsidize the station)
I'm sure the formula couldbe tweaked, but you get the idea.
Then the new hub would be a 0.5 system..
In this case - being highly theoretical - I guess Hek would be one of those hubs as it already shows tendencies to become one.
********************
Those without a tribe can only keep their word.
|
SengH
|
Posted - 2006.05.03 18:15:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Tsual
Edited by: Tsual on 03/05/2006 18:12:50
Originally by: qrac
Originally by: Setarcos Nous
How about making sales taxes based on the security rating of the system?
taxrate = 5 + Security rating of system *10
1.0= 15%
0.5= 10%
0.0= 5% (someone has to subsidize the station)
I'm sure the formula couldbe tweaked, but you get the idea.
Then the new hub would be a 0.5 system..
In this case - being highly theoretical - I guess Hek would be one of those hubs as it already shows tendencies to become one.
S-U is VERY close to becomming the jita of 0.0... During US Timezones it reaches the same numbers as yulai did pre-cold war gate shuffle.
|
Setarcos Nous
|
Posted - 2006.05.03 18:18:00 -
[72]
Edited by: Setarcos Nous on 03/05/2006 18:19:26
Originally by: Setarcos Nous
How about making sales taxes based on the security rating of the system?
taxrate = 5 + Security rating of system *10
1.0= 15%
0.5= 10%
0.0= 5% (someone has to subsidize the station)
I'm sure the formula couldbe tweaked, but you get the idea.
Oops, I think I accidentally increased taxes by a degree of magnitude  ...
but the idea was that way people would be a little more distributed across the sec ratings due to the degree of risk they are comfortable with.
|
| |
|
| Pages: 1 2 3 :: [one page] |